to someone new. >> she's sorry. thanks a lot. we've got to keep this race going. thank you both for joining me tonight. reminder, our prime timereminde coverage of the new hampshire primary begins at 6:00 p.m. eastern. you can have the last word online at our blog, the lastwor lastword.msn lastword.msnbc.com. follow me tweets @lawrence. "the ed show" is up next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" tonight from new york. in lsz than 24 hours, new hampshire voters will get a crack at picking the 2012 republican nominee. i'll show you why voters in the granite state are starting to walk away from mitt romney and i don't think santorum is going to pull a tebow. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> i like being able to fire people who provide services to me. >> middle class mitt is sticking by bad advice from his father. >> he said mitt, never get involved in politics, if you have to win election to pay a mortgage.

>> tonight, my commentary on how out of touch mitt romney really is. plus, we're going to the granite state for the latest on tomorrow's primary with bill burtbill burton of priorities usa and "washington post" e.j. dionne. on saturday i watched the debate with locals in new hampshire to get their take on the gop field. >> i think the republicans are a bunch of phonies. >> john nichols of "the nation" magazine and "huffington post" jennifer donahue are here with full analysis. hardworking americans calling out newt gingrich on his race problem. >> will you stop using blacks in general as a stepping stone or a punching bag? >> you don't want to miss newt's response. good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. mitt romney is doing anything he can to run away from his history as a job killer. it could be the last chance for his opponents to stop him from winning the nomination. tomorrow night is a big one. during romney's final swing

through new hampshire, he played the role of middle class mitt once again. >> these are experiences many of you know. i know what it's like to worry whether you're going to get fired. there were a couple of times i wondered whether i would get a pink slip. >> really? tell us about that, mitt? when was that, what year, what day, what happened? we want more detail. we want more detail on these 100,000 jobs that you say you created. the idea of mitt romney worrying about a pink slip was so outrageous, even rick perry mocked it. >> the idea that mitt stood up and said he's worried about pink slips, come on, this is probably one of the richest people to ever run for the presidency of the united states, son of a multimillionaire, an individual that, i mean, mitt romney's never worried about a pink sleep. well, he might worry about not having enough of them to hand out in places like gaffney, south carolina, but he's not worried about losing his job. >> he's way down in the polls, but is perry kind of getting on

a roll a little bit? is he figuring it out? republican opponents are taking any opportunity to portray romney as a ruthless corporate raider. check out what happened when romney made this gaffe about choosing health insurance plans. >> i want individuals to have their own insurance. that means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. it also means if you don't like what they do, you can fire them. i like being able to fire people who provide services to me. you know, if someone doesn't give me the good service i need, i want to say, i'm going to go get somebody else to provide that service to me. >> the question is, does that apply to employees? apparently it does. hours later, jon huntsman was taking his comment about firing people at face value. >> governor romney enjoys firing people. i enjoy creating jobs. >> newt gingrich has taken the biggest shots at romney's past as ceo of bain capital. >> at some point governor romney

is going to have to hold a press conference and walk through with considerable detail some of the companies that bain took over where they apparently looted the companies, left people totally unemployed and walked off with millions of dollars. >> of course the super pac supporting gingrich made a movie detailing romney's time at bain capital. it's damaging. the movie is being rolled out in advance of the south carolina primary. >> mitt romney became ceo of bain capital the day the company was formed. his mission? to wreak massive rewards for himself and his investors. >> mitt romney and them guys they don't care who i am. >> he's for small businesses? no, he isn't. he's not. >> you're going to be on the hit list, you know that. >> romney took foreign seed money from latin america, began a pattern exploiting dozens of american businesses. >> and in the interest of full disclosure, bain capital is part owner of the weather channel and along with our parent company nbc universal, but that doesn't

change the facts about this guy who wants to be president of the united states. romney's time at bain is perfect ammunition for his opponents and they're using every bit of it. middle class mitt's private sector record has to be fair game. the real story about mitt romney is, well, it's starting to get told. according to "the wall street journal," here we go. out of the 77 businesses, 77 businesses that bain invested in between the years of 1984 and 1999, 22% of them either filed for bankruptcy or they just flat out went out of business. bain vinesters received $2.5 billion from those 77 companies, they had annual gains between 50% and 80%. not bad but where did the money go? to the top it looks like. republican candidates aren't the only ones who were talking about this. the workers who were fired, they're speaking out. >> i worked in the steel mill of

kansas city for 32 years. mitt romney and bain capital came in and took the place over and eventually shut it down. we lost our jobs, they made millions. businesses, they are all gone. jobs we'll never see again. >> is that guy lying? no, those are the facts. mitt romney is the front-runner for the republican nomination, he's also an outsourcer, a job cutter. he allegedly took millions from workers, with their retirement. he was confronted today by a representative from the american autoworkers union who wanted to know why in the world mitt wanted to let the autoworkers go and not support them when president obama did? >> how can you say those people, people from your own state of michigan, would have been better off after bankruptcy where they would have really very likely lost their jobs instead of where they are today? once again, the number one auto company in the united states.

i don't understand -- >> ma'am, you've been very patient. you need to get to the answer now. >> let's get to the answer. bankruptcy is not going under and losing jobs. the president ultimately did what i suggested. going through a managed bankruptcy process. i wrote an op-ped about this. excuse me, it's my turn to talk. if you want to talk afterwards, we can come chat afterwards. general motors and chrysler went through a managed bankruptcy as i said back i think it was november. it took the president five or six months to come around to that. that's what they had to do. >> mr. romney, you were not for the loan, you know you weren't. mitt romney can't hide from his past. he killed jobs as a corporate ceo, he wanted president obama to kill jobs in the automobile industry and his policies will kill jobs if he's the president of the united states. his opponents are figuring it out and that's why they're going after him. not just because they think he might get the nomination. this guy has a chance to destroy the republican party based on his business model.

we're in a country right now that's trying to create jobs. he has a record of butchering labor. i must say all of the republican candidates don't have a good word to say about labor at all. the other day santorum when i was in iowa said that president obama save the automobile industry, he saved the unions. really? tell the other side of the story, mr. santorum. talk to the unions about how they took a haircut and came back with a reduced package to keep that industry alive and saved millions of jobs. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question. will more americans receive pink slips if mitt romney becomes president? text "a" for yes, text "b" for no to 622639. go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll have results later in the show. one of the things that gets me about romney, and no one has ever challenged him in these debates, he acts as if he's the only one that has ever done anything in life. i come from the private sector. you're a lesser human being because you've never been in the

private sector. hell, they've all been in the private sector at one time or another and none of them has cut as many jobs as mitt romney to my knowledge. joining me tonight is julie kushner, united autoworkers representative who confronted mitt romney today. and we're also joined tonight by donny box, a former steelworker who was laid off under bain capital when romney was in charge. donny, food to hagood to have y tonight. we'll start with you first. what do you want people to know about what you went through and what it was like going through this experience and what do you want them to know about mitt romney? >> to start with mitt romney, i kind of moved on, beyond all this stuff. after about 11 years, you start moving on. you can't dell on what's happened. i started hearing all this such about the job creator, and, you know, i got nothing against staples or some shoe company, all these other places that he supposedly brought to life and all the wonderful things he did with it. i kept thinking what happened? what happened down where i

worked? what the heck, where was all this go-get-them attitude then? that's not what we saw down there at the plant. >> what effects did the layoffs have on kansas city once the steel mill was gone? >> well, you know, you start out and you think that was just 800 jobs there in the mill, but we were the biggest consumer of electrical natural gas and water, you know, in about a six-state area. and once they shut the mill down it just didn't affect the steelworkers, it hammered the guys at power and light, because all of a sudden they've got a big bunch of staff they don't need to maintain that facility anymore, so those guys got the ax. and you had the same thing with the gas company. when you're not using it, millions of cubic feet of gas a year, you don't need the crews to maintain it. >> in the documentary or the tape that's been produced that we played, it says romney took millions from employees. explain that. what do you know? >> all i know is when they

decided they were going to spin off the organization and management came to us as union members and said, look, we're putting a package together, we're getting the financing to come in here and kick this business up and we're going to make it go because this place can do it. we sell a great product, we've got great people. you know, everybody bought into it, but, you know -- >> does a mitt romney presidency worry you, scare you? >> i quote a good friend of mine that said he'll probably try to park this country out like he did this plant. that's what he's concerned about and i am, too. >> let's turn to julie kushner, she confronted mitt romney in his campaign event. julie, good to have you with us. what happened? >> hey, ed. >> what did you ask and what did he say to you? >> well, i was at a breakfast meeting where he was talking about the uaw and about gm and chrysler, and criticizing president obama for helping out the auto industry. you know, i've heard it before, but hearing it up close like that, i couldn't believe it.

i got up and i challenged him on it. i said, you know, how can you really criticize president obama for saving the auto industry in this country? you know, he was saving a million jobs. people that work in gm and chrysler and auto-related jobs. how can you criticize the president for that? >> romney says the president did what he told him to do. >> i thought that was interesting. because i've heard him speak before and i never heard him say that the president did something right. so i was kind of surprised he said that. but, you know, the fact is, we all know what the president did, what obama did was very, very helpful to our country. and we've seen the auto industry and these companies in particular rebound and now gm was announced last week, now they're the largest automaker again, selling more cars than any other company in the world. >> did he say at that meeting that he was in favor of tax dollars helping out the automobile industry? i mean, that is the question.

because it was a loan -- >> he did not. >> and all the republicans were against it and now mitt romney is out there saying he was in favor of a government loan saving the automobile industry? did he say that? >> he did not say that he was in favor of that, he did not say they did the right thing. i think what he tried to say, that president obama did what he told him to do. but what was clear was that he's been opposed to this and he's been blaming -- he said gm is now owned by the uaw. and, you know, that's just such a -- that's a bad message for people. he's not telling the truth when he says that. because what happened was the union and the companies got together through the negotiations and figured out how to save this company and make it stronger going forward and save jobs. >> they reorganized, people took less benefit, less pension and less pay. that is the way it came down. >> absolutely. >> the workers served it up again, was part of the solution. i got to ask you before we go,

julie, mitt romney on the stump numerous times referred to union stooges when it comes to the national labor relations board. what's your reaction to that? >> he talked about union stooges. i actually said i'm not a union stooge. i'm a person 59 years old with a family that works hard, expects everybody to treat each other respectfully. i don't think that kind of name calling has any place in politics. and i think that we have different values, that's clear. i believe people should, who work hard, play by the rules should get -- be able to have a union and have democracy where they work. >> my interpretation is he thinks anybody who works for a wage must be a stooge. julie, good to have you with us tonight. donny box, thank you for being here. answer the question at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts on twitter using the #edshow. i watched the debate with "the ed show" viewers on saturday night in manchester. i'll show you how the gop field is energizing the democrats not only for tomorrow night but for

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coming up, mitt romney does look strong heading into tomorrow's new hampshire primary. is he a lock for the nomination? and what does second place really mean tomorrow night? bill burton and e.j. dionne join me next. "psycho talk" coming up, rick perry's latest debate gem. it's a dandy. did you know he wants to send troops back to iraq? and newt gingrich gets questioned on his link between african-americans and food stamps. i'll ask dr. james peterson if the rhetoric works for the gop. share your thoughts on twitter using #edshow. [ male announcer ] if you had a dollar for every dollar car insurance companies say they'll save you by switching, you'd have, like, a ton of dollars. but how are they saving you those dollars? a lot of companies might answer "um" or "no comment."

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with the new hampshire primary tomorrow the clear cut political story of the day is whether the republicans will stop themselves from making mitt romney their guy before it's too late. romney is still leading in the polls in new hampshire, south carolina and florida. his nomination is not inevitable. for three simple reasons, in my opinion. first of all, number one, romney is busy shooting himself in the foot day after day. been a rough 48 hours for him. number two, his republican rivals are piling on him like never before, i don't know why they took so long to do this. the third reason is there are two full weeks between new hampshire and south carolina primaries which could be an eternity the way things are going. that is a lot of time for politics but no doubt an uphill battle for romney's gop competitors. romney has a strong lead in the latest new hampshire poll at 41%. his closest rivals are far behind. in another poll, romney's lead is not as wide, he has dropped five days in a row. in south carolina, romney holds a lead but santorum and gingrich

are not so far behind. bottom line is it's his to lose. i'm joined by bill burton, cofounder of priorities usa, and former deputy press secretary for president obama. and e.j. dionne with us tonight, senior fellow at the brookings institution and columnist for the "washington post." fellows, here's the bottom line. romney is anywhere from 41% to 35% in the polls. his lead is 15% to 24% in the polls. my question to both of you tonight is what does second place mean? because if romney wins, everybody else is 0-2 and it's tough to raise money when you're 0-2, isn't it, bill? say, hey, look, i'm 0-2, but i'm really going to win this thing, can you give me a few million? this is pivotal tomorrow night, suspect it? >> it's an expectations game. somebody will come in this being 0-2, there is room for someone to surge at the end make a strong showing. mitt romney for all the things he's doing to stay in the lead he's not doing anything to increase his strength or support or look better like he's ready

for primetime. there's a big opening for a jon huntsman or rick santorum or somebody like that to show a lot of support and go storming into south carolina with a little bit of strength. >> e.j. dionne, they are coming at mitt romney in the last 48 hours unlike we haven't seen anything like it in the last couple months. why did they take so long? >> you know, i've been asking myself the same question, and ed, by the way, if you don't like what i say, you can fire me. i mean, mitt romney went after himself today with that sound bite. even when you put it in context, it's not a great sound bite about liking to fire people who give you service. >> exactly. >> and i think that the problem with this race is i do think mitt romney can be beaten but i'm not sure any of these alternatives can actually beat him. i think that the situation for romney is that if he gets 40% or more it is a huge win and he's really hard to stop. if he gets 35%, it's okay. if he starts falling below that,

and especially if he gets below 30%, even if he wins, that almost becomes a defeat in the way these expectations games go because he will have dropped so many points in the week since the iowa caucuses. i think rick santorum missed an opportunity coming in to this state. he kind of got waylaid in the socratic dialogues for a couple days. i've been saying he was running to be a teacher in a jesuit high school. i like teachers in a jesuit high school, but that's not running for president. i think huntsman does seem to be on the move. and if there is some deterioration from romney, he may be the lucky guy kind of rising at the end to pick up some of those votes. >> here's some of that deterioration. let's play the romney line about pink slips. >> i know what it's like to worry whether you'll get fired. there were a couple times i wondered whether i was going to get a pink slip, and i care very deeply about the american people. >> bill burton, you believe the first part of that, that he was

really worried about getting a pink slip? rick perry even hammered him on that. >> no, it is lunacy. and i noticed that when reporters asked his campaign if they could cite an instance where he was concerned about getting a pink sleep, they of course couldn't name any because he wasn't. the deal he constructed at bain actually allowed for him no matter what happened, no matter if he was separated from the company, he would still be getting paid millions of dollars over the course of the years that would follow. so he doesn't know anything about anxiety that small businesspeople or even the average american worker feels about losing their job or getting their businesses shut down. >> he does look like the guy who fired you. that is a label on this guy. let's look at south carolina numbers again, in an average of recent polls in the state, romney is leading, but he would be swamped. if just the support of gingrich and santorum were combined against him. e.j. dionne, social conservatives, the way it stands right now, they will have to get it together if they want to be

involved in who's going to be this nominee. what do you think? >> i think that's where romney may be lucky again coming out of new hampshire because newt's got real energy. after he went after romney in that debate this sunday for pais baloney, i think that's one of the keepers from this primary, he really has his legs underneath him. i saw him today and he said have you ever seen anything like this? he was flying high. in the meantime, santorum already knows that he's got a potentially good base of social conservatives down there and then rick perry won't go away. >> yeah. >> as long as these guys keep cutting up that vote, mitt romney will be able to slide in with a very small percentage and still win the thing. there's got to be some consolidation over the next two weeks. >> well, huntsman appears to be a really nice guy. but when you have him piling on saying what's wrong with the country, david gregory, is this

guy's attitude over here. i mean, that's really something. he's getting it from all sides. he's definitely going to have to earn this nomination. no question about this. bill burton, e.j. dionne, thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> thank you, ed. up next, rick perry wants to reinvade iraq because apparently he thinks iran has super powers. "psycho talk" is coming up. and hillary clinton for vice president? a "new york times" op-ped makes the case. could it really happen? i'll ask jonathan alter and joan walsh. i mean, when you think about it -- we're right back. ♪ ♪♪

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in "psycho talk" tonight, we have more evidence rick perry is just another younger, crazier version of george w. bush. 75% of all americans agreed with president obama's decision to follow bush's timeline and withdraw all of the troops from iraq last december. last month. well, of course, almost all of the republican presidential candidates were among the 25% who opposed the withdrawal. during saturday night's debate, rick perry, he took it a step further. >> i would send troops back in to iraq. the idea that we allow the iranians to come back into iraq and take over the country with all the treasure both in blood and money we spent in iraq, because this president wants to kowtow to his liberal leftist base and move out those men and women.

we're going to see iran, in my opinion, move back in at literally the speed of light. >> if iranian troops can literally move at the speed of light, i would think the world has a hell of a lot more problems than worrying about the future of iraq. but that aside. the bottom line here is rick perry wants to start a new war in a country we just spent the last eight years building back up after shock and awe reduced it to rubble. of course it would be great for the military contractors who have already raked in billions of taxpayer dollars, and that's kind of a texas thing. rick perry saying he would go back into iraq is war mongering "psycho talk." i caught saturday's debate in manchester with good friends. a bunch of lefties. they had a chance to speak in front of the camera and tell us what they're really afraid of. you'll want to hear what they have to say. newt gingrich is confronted by his town hall attendee about

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limited time offer. some restrictions apply. how crazy is it in new hampshire? i mean, come on, it's january. i go up there this weekend, there's absolutely no snow whatsoever. but if you have any doubts about the democrats being energized and motivated to vote in the next presidential election, oh, they're paying attention. by the way, they can vote tomorrow because president obama is on the ballot. now, we went to manchester, new hampshire, a place called milly's tavern. had a lot of fun. we were there to ask progressives what they thought about the republicans candidates as they faced off in saturday night's debate. >> what happens in america that creates jobs is not government. it has its role, but by and large it gets in the way of creating jobs. >> these guys are talking about how government doesn't create jobs when they're running for the number one government job in the country. >> i believe in an america that is based upon opportunity and freedom, not president obama's social welfare states.

>> the general message is one of contempt and condescension for the american public. >> what did you think tonight? >> well, i think that they're all mostly out of their minds. >> i think that the republicans are a bunch of phonies with a possible exemption of huntsman. >> how would you feel if any one of them were president? >> scared to death. >> middle class, there are no classes in america. >> i'm thinking what country do you live in, because there are definitely classes in this country. >> that bothered you? >> yes, he's so out of touch. >> it just kills me to see the republican party supporting these people that will bring the country back 50 years, to strip away roe v. wade, to strip away equality rights drives me insane. >> mitt romney tonight said he'd want to see the supreme court strike down roe v. wade. >> do i believe roe v. wade should be overturned in yes.

>> i'm of the generation that worked for roe v. wade, we can't go back again. >> a huge jump from being understanding and considerate and concerned, which we should be, to saying we're therefore going to institute the sacrament of marriage as though it has no basis. sacrament of marriage was based on a man and woman, has been for 3,000 years. >> newt gingrich talking about marriage equality is like getting lessons on drug addiction from a heroin addict. >> what do you think? >> it was a torture session. >> i would send troops back in to iraq. >> the decision to elect a president has to be much more thoughtful than what we saw tonight. really, i think president obama is the winner tonight. >> do you think any of them could be president? >> any of them? i don't think so. >> tomorrow night, president obama will be on the ballot, he will obviously be the democratic nominee, but new hampshire is a very important swing state. so how the president performs in the state in november, obviously, is very crucial but democrats are paying attention and they are, i would say, very

nervous about the republican field. let's turn to john nichols, washington correspondent of "the nation" magazine who's on the ground in new hampshire and also jennifer donahue, that's her territory, fellow at the eisenhower institute and gettysburg college and "huffington post" contributor. great to have both of you with us tonight. john, the people i met are a serious bunch of folks who are being energized by this republican primary. what do you make of it, what are you hearing on the ground? >> i'm hearing a lot of same stuff, ed. it's fascinating. i followed jon huntsman today, i asked people from new hampshire who showed up at his events what they thought about the rest of the field, and i got to tell you these were largely independents and moderate to liberal republicans. and they were frankly saying there were plenty of republicans at that debate on saturday and again on sunday morning that they couldn't vote for. so it isn't just democrats, it's actually the swing voters that

barack obama is going to need. these republicans are scaring even some of their fellow republicans. >> jennifer, what do you make of the folks in new hampshire? would you say the people that are not in the republican camp are afraid of this field? many people say this is the most radic radical bunch they've ever seen. >> yeah, i talked to a bunch of undeclared voters today who are undecided who really don't like this field. people who are deciding last minute. this is about half the electorate up here doesn't know who they want to vote for. i think it's interesting that john mentioned huntsman. i think jon huntsman has a movement going. the question is whether he has time for a surge. he's the only serious major candidate who hasn't had a surge yet. i was at a town hall meeting and i think that jon huntsman basically has the ingredients of a john mccain, bill bradley, and he's getting independent voters who are undeclared but are democrats in their hearts who are coming out to send a protest vote about this republican field, much like the

people you talked about. they don't like what their choices are but they do like jon huntsman. >> one thing i noticed is a lot of talk about gay rights over the weekend with these republican candidates, also abortion. i mean, this is just a total turnoff to independent voters. what do you think, john? >> well, i think it's a real turnoff, and in a state like new hampshire saying you want to reinvade iraq? that does not go over well. also, this state just went through a really bitter battle and is in fact still going through a bitter battle over right to work law. an anti-labor law. and these candidates were stumbling over themselves to be the most anti-labor candidate, seeming to forget that in the new hampshire legislature, many of the pro-labor votes came from moderate republicans. >> yeah. >> this field is just way out of touch with the state. >> jennifer, what happened to rick santorum? a good showing in iowa, nothing in new hampshire it seems like. >> nothing. he's got nothing. and i think he might come in

thirty third, he might come in fourth. really right now a race for second between huntsman and ron paul. i think that santorum probably made a bad strategic decision competing in new hampshire. he had a pretty good come close to winning in iowa. he probably should have gotten on a plane to south carolina like perry did and try to capitalize on those gains so he could knock off romney down there. i don't think the time in this state has paid off for him. we had a fatal flaw this morning on romney with discussion of the pink slips. >> well, a story like that goes through countryside like wildfire. it's something, it's water cooler talk. people talk about that. john, has that hurt him? >> oh, it's hurt a lot. in fact, that's the funny thing. i being a bad pundit thought people would see the context. wrong. i had it brought up to me at gas stations and stores. people were watching it again and again, it's on a repeat loop much like howard dean's scream speech in iowa in 2004. it's going to hurt romney.

>> i got to tell both of you and the audience tonight how i feel. there is nothing wrong with being 2-0, i don't care if you win by five points or ten points. if romney comes out 2-0, it's going to be a rell tough road for everybody else. unless the social conservatives gather behind one candidate. we'll see what happens. john nichols, jennifer donahue, thanks for joining us. obama/clinton ticket in 2012? the speculation continues. look it's great for talk radio and it's great for cable news and that's why i'm going to talk to jonathan alter and joan walsh about it. you got to be thinking about it. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday.

how about a bike ride?l bag when you join you're not my dad ahh!! hey honey, back feels better, little dancing tonight, you and me? dr. scholl's pro inserts relieve different types of lower body pain by treating at the source so you're a whole new you. go pro with dr. scholl's. [ de ntis is to dig right in. but as his dentist, i know that to do that, he needs to use the brush more dentists use. oral-b. trust the brush more dentists and hygienists use. oral-b. life opens up when you do. up next, in 2008 it was president barack obama versus hillary clinton. in 2012, will it be obama plus hillary? i'll ask joan walsh and jonathan alter if an obama/clinton ticket is a possibility. don't forget to tweet us using #edshow. discussion coming up.

is there any chance you would be vice president in the second term?

>> no. there is not. >> is it in the realm of possibility? >> i do not think it's in the realm of possibility. >> that was secretary of state hillary clinton back in october addressing rumors of a possible job swap with vice president joe biden. it's been media speculation for over a year the scenario runs something like this. joe biden goes to the state department, hillary clinton joins barack obama on the campaign trail, fires up the base and serves as vice president as president obama is re-elected to a second term. it all sounds good in disneyland, doesn't it? today "new york times" columnist bill keller took it a step further, he joined the fray arguing an obama/clinton ticket in 2012 is just what the democrats need. keller believes clinton as vp does more to guarantee obama's reelection than anything else they could do. keller writes it makes her the democratic party's heir apparent in 2016. now this is all great fodder for cable news, i don't think the

biden/clinton switch is going to take place but i like talking about it. i do think it's a discussion the democrats need to have because there's nothing wrong with it. just hear me out on this one. the democratic party needs to be thinking about the next generation. with clinton on the ticket, it would be really looking good for 16 years for a democrat in the white house, don't you think? it's a way to ensure progressive policies are enacted and preserved in the country and a way to ensure roe v. wade is protected and the supreme court isn't taken over by right wing activists. whether you think it's nuts or not i think it's worth thinking about and talking about. if the president did it, i don't think there would be criticism whatsoever. joe biden is a good man, done a great job, but it's all about winning. i'm joined by joan walsh, editor at large, salon.com. jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst and columnist for "bloomberg view." who wrote back in october about this.

jonathan. it's still out there. is there a freak of possibility of this happening? >> there's just a little tiny mathematical possibility. it's really -- it would be a hail mary pass, essentially, if president obama was behind in the polls at the time of the democratic convention and they only had a little more than eight weeks to go before the election and he had a lot of ground to pick up. the reason they don't even consider it really in the white house, they believe it would look weak. that to throw joe biden under the bus would seem desperate, and that it would hurt on what they call the leadership score, you know, that it would make president obama look craven and political. aside from the fact he has an outstanding relationship with joe biden and simply doesn't want to do it if he had his druthers. >> joan, what do you think of the conversation, good, bad, ugly, whatever. what do you think? >> gee, bill keller, come on, not like there is no political

news, not like it's a slow news day. there's so much for us to talk about, ed. there's so much more that's interesting. i understand your enthusiasm for it. look, i love hillary clinton. i agree with jonathan, it would look weak, it would almost certainly look weak, would almost certainly look like desperation and would be criticized. bill keller would be the first one out of the gate saying, wow, what's going on in the white house to award joe biden this way? and it's also kind of crazy because actually the white house is on an upswing in virtually every way. messaging, the poll numbers are up. it's kind of speculating about something that is a theoretical that doesn't even feel politically like it's going to happen. >> let's just say it happens, okay? let's just say -- i'm having fun with this. >> okay. >> let's just say it happens and let's say president obama gets re-elected. in 2016, hillary clinton would be one of the most qualified people to run for president in the history of this country. having been the first lady, having been a united states

senator, having been the secretary of state, having been the vice president of the united states. it would be credentials and executive experience unparalleled anywhere and the democrats need to think in terms of generational victories because of the supreme court. jonathan, your thoughts? >> ed, if credentials and qualifications were the standards, then dick cheney would have been president instead of george w. bush, he would have been everything before he was vice president, and certainly barack obama didn't have much in the way of those kinds of qualifications and experience. when he became president. >> you'd have to admit hillary clinton would be one of the most experienced people ever to run for the office. >> she would, but the way politics work, she would get knocked off by andrew cuomo. in the primaries. >> it would be a long time to sit in one of those seats. it wouldn't necessarily help her, ed, i don't think. i think if she wants to do it in 2016, she can do it in 2016. i'm not worried about that. >> joan, there is probably the downside of it all for the

democrats would be that hillary clinton does have a way of invigorating the right wing in this country. they used to raise money >> she became such a big hero. she has got a high approval rating because she is not running for anything. she is not entirely in the public spotlight. people like her better when she goes a way a little bit. that is not a diss. let's be real how politics work. >> never say never, ed. never say never, because politicians do what it takes. even though there is a miniscule chance of it happening you can't rule it out entirely, a lot can change in the next nine months. >> joan walsh, jonathan alter, always a pleasure. good to have you with us. newt gingrich thinks because he worked with colin powell and condoleezza rice he could teach the naacp about food stamps. dr. james peterson sounds off off on that. i'll have commendary as well, stay with us. if there was a pill

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you will more americans receive pink slips if mitt romney becomes the president? 97% said yes. 3% said no. next up, newt gingrich doubles down on his comments about food stamps and the african american community. dr. james peterson is next, stay with us. i'm trading everywhere...

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stamps. over the weekend a town hall attendee confronted him about his recent suggestion most food stamp recipients are african american. newt's lengthy response began with his favorite strategy, denial. >> the democratic national committee took totally out of context half of a sentence. okay? i think clearly as somebody who served with colin powell, somebody who served with condy rice, i have a fairly good sense in fact african americans have made many contributions to america. >> after playing the i'm not racist i worked with condy card, he doubled down on the comment that got him in trouble in the first place. >> i said i would like to debate the issue of food stamps versus paychecks. now those currently 43% african american teenage unemployment in the united states. that number should be unacceptable to any american. i said i was willing to go to the naacp annual convention and i would be willing to talk about importance of food stamps versus paychecks.

i would have thought there would have been a positive response, gosh, here is a republican who cares enough that he's willing to go and talk to one of the most left wing organizations in america about how to help the people they represent. >> joining me now is dr. james peterson the director of africana studies at lehigh university. i want your response what you just heard on the videotape. >> flabbergasted. the naacp is not one of the most liberal organizations. they're aggressive, but i wouldn't call them that. here is a memo to everyone who makes these faux pas, my best friend is black response is the worst response you can make. panned because basically it reduces the discussion to your individual relationships when in reality you're making commentaries about millions of people. that is the problem when we look at the numbers, we know more white folk on welfare than black folk, why would this conversation only need to be had at the naacp?

why wouldn't we have it everywhere. >> that's the amazing thing. there's been a few days from when he originally said this and when he was confronted on the campaign trial, yet he made no mention of just how many white people in the country are on food stamps but he still is willing to go to the left wing organization the naacp and tell them a few things. what does this kind of rhetoric do, what would be his motivation for talking like this? >> i think when we put it in the context of like michele bachmann's comments about slavely, rick santorum black-to-black comments, there is a problem with race and the republican side of politics. i feel this is about the ways in which some of these candidates try to pander to a right that is a little more racially focused than the rest of the country and there and have to backtrack when they get caught. i'm writing about this, my

co-author and i are publishing a piece, what we do is try to catalog all these pieces to get people to think about this in a much more comprehensive way so we can address it more directly. >> is this the dirty little secret of the republican party, that they just really do fundamentally struggle with race? santorum also recently came under fire for similar rhetoric, is this how they win over conservatives? you have to ask the question. >> i think we see more of it in the republican primary piece, more of it in like tea party organization because those public events or public sort of speaking opportunities are geared toward and pander toward a very small minority within the republican party which is a minority in american politics. there is a pandering to folks who think about race in the 1950's. >> one other thing i want to bring up very profound that none of these republican candidates talk about the poor. income disparty, i'm talking about the poor people in this

country, the number of people living under the poverty level. they never talk about that. why is that? >> because the poor folk don't represent a voting block they are willing to cater to. they don't have a lot of money, they can't afford a super pac, so they're not going to be talking about poor folk, we haven't seen anyone mention or talk about poor folk. if you want to have the conversation about food stamps and paychecks, that is a conversation about poor folk in america. >> dr. james peterson, great to have you with us tonight. appreciate your time. look forward to your work. that is the ed show i'm ed schultz. listen to me on the radio, follow me on twitter and like me on facebook. rachel maddow starting now. north dakota state defeated sam houston state.