bit. we'll get back inside in a minute. we want to hear what you're doing at this hour. john has some ans irs in new york. >> we have mark in new hampshire. he writes, willie, i'm waiting to watch the testing of the emergency broadcast system. >> we're a huge lead-in for the emergency broadcast system to get you up, we'll take it. how about one more, tower, for me and loretta. >> we have john who writes i have to go to columbia for a meeting, otherwise, i'd be downtown to welcome you to the best city in america. have some grits. >> we'll be here tomorrow morning, as well. come on down, we're at charleston at the mills house. a shockingly large crowd at this ungodly morning hour. "morning joe" starts right now. . i fully expect the romney campaign to be unendingly dirty and dishonest.

they're discovering they can't buy this. i think they have internal polls that show them losing. and i think they will do anything at any level, and i need your help. people power will beat money power, and i need your help to beat romney. >> the speaker at the debate was talking about how he created millions of jobs when he was working with the reagan administration. well, he'd be in congress two years when ronald reagan came to office. that's like saying we're all responsible for those jobs. government doesn't create jobs, it's the private sector that creates jobs. congressmen taking credit for helping create jobs is like al gore taking credit for the internet. >> welcome everybody. it is the top of the hour. >> all right. >> good morning, everyone. >> we're in south carolina, baby. >> it's the mills house in

charleston, south carolina. thursday. welcome to "morning joe." what a crowd we have here. >> you know, this is an amazing crowd, mika. and as i look around and see all of these "morning joe" and "way too early" fans here, you know what goes through my mind? >> what? >> willie and i were talking about it outside. >> yeah? >> these people don't have a life. >> do you sleep? are you -- >> what's wrong with you people? >> it's very early in the morning. >> i'm like ferris bueler, go home! now we love you guys, we love south carolina, and seriously, how can you not love charleston? >> it is beautiful. driving here this morning, it is beautiful. >> apparent lip one person in the audience agrees. >> and a gentleman in the corner has a barnicle for president sign. >> barnicle for president. and there may be an opening in the republican field. this is -- >> it's bad. >> this is what i'm hearing from romney people, this has been a terrible week for mitt romney. >> well, yeah, it doesn't get any better today. we've got a story coming up in news about his some funds that

he kept in the cayman islands that's not going to sit well. after the whole conversation about his paying 15% taxes. >> well, and the thing is -- the fact that he paid 15% in taxes is not illegal. >> no. it's not breaking news. >> and in fact, i think most people would've expected him to pay 15% in taxes. it's the clumsy way it's been handled. and that -- and romney's own people are saying this is an unforced error, we've messed up, you look at the polls that show the tightening, and the big news coming out of iowa. this is -- i just don't think this could fall at a worse time for mitt romney. now, and the long run, is there anybody situated better than mitt romney to win this nomination? anybody with more organization, anybody with more money? and is there anybody as the romney people say that actually are on all the ballots moving forward? other than mitt, no. but this is going to be a real trial for him. because in iowa, mark was just

saying it's not official yet, but it looks like they're going to take the iowa win away from mitt. >> that could be kind of devastating, depending on what happens here in south carolina. we've got the polls -- >> apparently he tested positive for steroids -- >> john heilemann with us, and yes, we'll get to the iowa story when it breaks, which we're not there yet. >> you say we're not there. >> we're not there. >> i put it out. >> are we there? >> explain what's happened. >> there's a few precincts missing, they're missing forever, they're giving up trying to get those results. so when the official results are announced in just a bit, santorum will have more votes. the iowa republican party is saying, well, this is basically -- they plan to call the results a virtual tie. but santorum will have more votes in the official final tally from iowa. >> and so many of these -- especially when you talk about iowa and new hampshire.

you know what? we're not talking about the delegates. what matters here is who won. two things happened here, right? it hurts romney and helps newt because newt is closing in on a lot of these polls. but secondly maybe it keeps santorum in the race another week or two because from all the looks of the polls, he may be fading a little bit here in south carolina. >> what's funny, of course, after iowa, you had santorum calling it a virtual tie and romney saying a win is a win. and we're going to flip positions and romney's going to say it's a virtual tie and santorum's going to say landslide. just from a historical perspective, romney winning iowa and new hampshire was the first time anyone had done that. and if he wins south carolina on saturday it would be the trifecta, something that would make him unprecedented are historically. we talk about him as a weak front-runner, but no one's ever come close to doing that, now you have a possibility that he will have lostwaan ngrich comes back and wins south carolina, suddenly romne has yly won the state he was

supposed to win, which is new hampshire. and he heads into florida, you know, with a split -- a three-way split decision in the first three races, and it just changes, doesn't take away any of his long run strength that you pointed out, joe, but it does change the perception of mitt romney having done this extraordinary thing to being basically, you know, a just another front-runner winning 1 out of 3. >> does it matter, though? we talked about iowa as expectations game and perception and momentum. that ship sailed 2 1/2 weeks ago when he won, it was by eight votes. he took that into new hampshire, moved into south carolina. you can't go back and take away the momentum that he had -- >> no, not for new hampshire. >> right. >> but you surely can take the momentum away going into south carolina. because we have so many things happening at once. first of all, you've got all of these, let's just say unforced errors by mitt. saying earlier i like firing people. he got past that.

but now the 15% deal where, again, nothing's wrong -- most republicans are like, good, you know capital gains taxes should be at 15%. i'm one of those people, i agree with that. but it was sloppy the way he put it out there. and now we've got a story that he's putting some of his money offshore in the cayman islands. i had -- and i won't say on the air, but one of the most powerful conservatives in america tell me yesterday the thing that -- who likes romney -- says the thing that bothers me is that this guy is so tone deaf that he was actually a guy with hundreds of millions of dollars in his account. the guy was angry because he thinks he's making it tougher than it should be. he said what's that guy doing taking $40,000 for speeches? when a bill gates or somebody else with billions of dollars would say, no, no, you know what? i'm not going to -- don't give me the money, you give it to the

charity. even if mitt gives it to a charity later on. we've heard jokes about how cheap he is. >> well, he's been running for president for many years now, so he should've thought about this. the average income in this state is $35,000, he gets paid in two hours more. that's not connecting. >> and the problem is, these are unforced errors. why did he blurt out what his 15% when he should've -- why did he take money for speeches when he knew he was running and he didn't need that money? even if he eventually gave it away? why did he park money offshore in the cayman islands? who around him said that whatever tax savings he would gain in the short-term would be worth it in the long run? he's been running for president for eight years. this is all really -- this suggests, mika, a bigger problem, a blind spot that in this year of we are the 99%, it may turn off some independents. >> maybe eight years ago, seven,

six years ago it didn't seem like an issue because the economy was in a different place. let's get to the latest polls, we'll get to the story about the cayman islands, but also a story about newt gingrich's ex-wife, which is developing, as well. which we do have some news on. this morning, these polls show that mitt romney is holding a 10-point lead over newt gingrich in south carolina. romney's getting 34% of the vote followed by gingrich with 24%. ron paul coming in with 16% and santorum with 14%. but following romney's shaky showing at the fox news debate on monday and gingrich's perceived strong performance, our nbc marist poll shows romney dropping six points here in south carolina. >> let's hold this up right here. and i suspect most people, mark haleprin, on the ground saw this coming. but newt had a fantastic debate performance the other night by -- certainly by republican standards. people that don't even like newt say, wow, when newt is good,

newt is really good. do you sense it on the ground? did you go to any newt rallies? any mitt rallies? >> romney had mixed events. he had a good event in spartanburg, but the day before, the event immediately before the press availability, he had a very bad event. >> just flat. >> flat, very small crowd. gingrich is right now performing better than he did in new hampshire. he's got a better message, he's moved off the bain capital message, which was causing mitt some problems and he's talking about two core themes, romney is too much like the president and he's been part of the conservative movement and done big things. and he's separating himself from santorum. the nbc poll shows what the political poll shows. roughly the same margin between them. and doing better after the debate. all the numbers show gingrich stronger after the debate than he was before. tonight -- that makes tonight a

big deal. >> and all of these other stories coming out about mitt may have people scratching their heads saying, okay, wait, if i was going to vote for him because he's the most electable guy, do i still do that? >> the money -- the money story, everything around money, it's like an open wound for him right now because every -- there's just one story after the other. and, you know -- >> and by the way, let me just say, we republicans like money. >> yes. >> we like low capital gains taxes. >> it's become a dirty word lately. >> not with republicans, maybe democrats and marxists. if i see somebody that makes $200 million, $300 million, you know what i think? how do i do that? i want that money to -- but he's been clumsy. and you're wondering if he's acting this way against newt gingrich and these other contenders. what's going to happen when he goes up against $1 billion obama machine? >> and that's the prism, right? the question has been for a year and a half, for a lot of establishment republicans, could

mitt romney take a punch? very few were thrown at him let alone landed on him for the better part of a year. and now unforced errors. >> punching himself. >> he now looks like this guy who has kind of lost control of his public image and he's got -- part of him being portrayed and getting caricatured of gordon gekko, and part as ritchie rich. and that's happened over the span of this last week. the first time he's been under fire, things seem to be slipping away from him. and for a lot of republicans concerned about the electability issue, if this is happening to him now in the first tough week he's ever faced, what's going to happen over the course of eight months with barack obama? >> in the immortal words of bob kerry talking about bill clinton, they're going to open him up like a rusty can. that didn't happen with clinton. and you were talking about top hats. did you notice that every time willie comes south of the mason dixon line -- >> man of the people.

>> you do that because it fogs up. >> well, if you liked what you saw monday night if you're a newt gingrich supporter, wait until tonight. he saw the numbers we just showed where the gap closed ten points, nine points between them, he's got another crack at mitt romney again tonight two days ahead of the primary. he smells blood. clearly he smells blood and he's going after romney hard tonight. >> can you believe though, mark, we're talking about newt gingrich again. no, he can't do it because -- >> we don't have to, do we? >> think about all the things and -- hey, stop now. stop that. >> that wasn't very nice. >> so but you keep hearing, though, that newt is finished, and he keeps coming back which leads me to a conclusion. >> yes, i like this conclusion. >> there are only three species that survive the nuclear

holocaust, cockroaches, cher, and newt gingrich. he keeps coming back. >> if you take away the negatives and look at the positives, he's from a neighboring state. one reason he did well in the debate is south carolina audiences, including this one are a lot more lively. in the debate halls in iowa and new hampshire when the moderator says please hold your applause, they do. all y'all do not. >> please hold your applause. >> and it's going to be interesting tonight if romney figures out that you've got to have the impact on the audience because the audience in the room affects the perceptions of people watching on tv. newt got a standing ovation in the last debate, which never happens. >> i'll tell you, though, something else, mika. newt gingrich when he speaks, forget about bad newt. when he's good newt and locked in, newt gingrich speaks to conservatives in a way -- and

i'm not comparing him -- i said something about jon huntsman and ronald reagan that upset rush limbaugh a couple of days ago. i'm not comparing newt to ronald reagan or george w. bush, but reagan had this way of making conservatives stand and go, yeah! you people in manhattan don't understand, you people in georgetown don't understand. screw you, right? let me continue. >> yeah -- >> george w. bush, and i promise, and it wasn't just me that said this. when somebody put a "w" on the back of their car in 2000, you know what that was equivalent of? sticking your finger up at the elites who said he was too stupid to be president and everybody that voted for him hated science. everybody that voted for him didn't believe in evolution. i think maureen said he was going to take us back to the dark ages, gary wills said that -- >> okay.

bring it in for a landing. >> no, you need to understand this resentment. >> okay. >> i still remember this eight years later. gary wills saying that when you elect george w. bush, then as a country you have more in common with al qaeda than the european allies? this sort of resentment is something that i still feel as a conservative. it's also something that newt gingrich knows how to tap into. and in the age of mitt romney, in the age of george w. bush where he doubled the national debt and ended up being a bigger problem in the fiscal matters, you see newt gingrich raging against the machine. and mark haleprin, there's something in you as a conservative that says you tell them, newt. >> the word is grievance. people have a grievance. >> that's my middle name, by the way. joe grievance. >> and he's tapped into that forever. this state in the past primaries has rewarded the person who spent the most on negative ads and was the establishment

candidate. newt is an interesting combination. he taps into grievance, that's an anti-washington populist. but he was speaker of the house. he's an historical figure for a lot of republicans. his biggest problem right now is women. romney's doing much better with women, and that's why this abc story about his second wife may be a world game changer for romney. >> we've got a couple of abc stories they've been breaking that we should report on. it's not apparent on his disclosure forms, abc news is reporting that mitt romney has as much as $8 million in 12 investment funds set up in the cayman islands. a romney campaign spokesman responded to the report saying the former massachusetts governor follows all tax laws and would pay the same taxes regardless of where his funds are. i don't really understand that. >> then why did you move it offshore? >> i don't think you need them in the cayman islands if the taxes are the same. and a day after romney revealed

his tax rate is lower than most americans, the national review is out with an editorial calling on the front-runner to release his tax returns. they say, if he is to be the nominee, a speedy release benefits romney of, as well. if he discloses tomorrow, he will have secured time and space necessary to exhaust the present attacks on his wealth and craft a counter narrative. if he waits until april or beyond, he will have ensured that the attacks reach a fever pitch just in time for the obama campaign to make them a center piece of its reelection class war. >> and you know, mika, i never thought i'd say it, but here we go. >> what? >> rick perry said it best -- >> no. come on now. what? what did he say? >> rick perry said it best when he said the other night at the debate. you know, mitt, if you've got problems, we need to know now. because we can't fire you in september.

and i think all these mitt supporters, this big conservative i talked to yesterday, leading conservative i talked to yesterday are say g saying, okay, mitt, even if you are our guy, you've got to put it all out on the table now because we don't want to hear about it. -- it's going to come out by the end of the campaign. >> of course it is. >> and we'd rather see if you're the toughest guy going into the general election or not. i don't think he can wait until april. >> this has been handled so badly. >> it is. >> it's the other headline of the day -- >> can i say though, mika? i need to repeat this. he's been running for eight years. >> i know. >> i am shocked that the people around him did not take him aside a year ago and say let's release the tax records out in front. they knew this day was coming. as bob woodward said yesterday, every candidate has to release -- >> when tax loopholes became the centerpiece of the conversation,

wouldn't you not want that found out during the campaign like some big revelation? >> he has been so reticent about it that it suggests -- suggests that he's very sensitive around this. and clearly, you know, there's stuff that's politically problematic. and i agree with you that to get it out earlier would have been better. i was interested to read about what some of this stuff is going to reveal the extent of the ties to the mormon church. and he's not only given a lot of money to them but the church has benefitted from investments to bain and so on. romney has been very -- tried very hard to keep the question of mormonism and his discussion of mormonism out of the campaign for reasonable reasons, but there's a financial side to this too. >> are you suggesting that it's bad? >> i'm not suggesting any such thing. i'm suggesting he's sensitive to the potential challenges that his mormonism poses. and there's a side of this that

goes to the church. and he may have been concerned that it would raise another set of problems or issues he doesn't want to deal with. >> and you know, that -- >> i think the problem's probably more about the cayman islands and everything else. but this is a great example of, you know, when i first started practicing law, this old southern lawyer told me. and he said, joe, listen, if you've got a client, they got something that they've got to get out, get it out early. because if you give the people a chance to assume the worst about your client, they will assume the worst about your client. >> looks like he was hiding it. >> get it out. >> that was his clumsiest answer of any debate. >> one final headline -- >> nobody's done that before. >> one final headline, guys. new revelations may disrupt newt gingrich's campaign. tonight abc news is apparently airing an interview with the

former speaker's second wife maryann. in a preview of what could be in store, she has been saying as far back as the 1990s that she could end her former husband's career with a single interview. >> the question, mark haleprin, you used to work at abc newsment why does abc news put this on the air at perhaps the most pivotal point in this campaign yet where newt gingrich, you know -- if it were a third or fourth level candidate, thad be one thing. newt is moving forward. it makes abc look like they're intentionally trying to sabotage his campaign. >> i don't know about the particular facts of this case, but it's always true you have to work on stories and can't air them until they're ready. sometimes they're only ready on the eve of a political event. sometimes sources come forward more easily on the eve of something. sometimes, you know, you want to make -- you don't want to -- >> is this a tough call for abc? >> the alternative is to wait

until after. some people would say -- >> there's so many things to weigh. >> this is a tough call for abc? >> didn't they also do the cayman islands story? >> yeah. >> they'll be breaking two tough stories against each candidate. there is some -- that may have helped the sense of balance. they're hitting both within a couple days of each other. >> she gave an interview to "esquire" 2010 not long ago where she spilled the beans. is there anything new in this interview? >> that's what i'm wondering too. tomorrow on "morning joe" -- >> yeah? >> stephen colbert will be here. >> south carolina native. >> that's an old picture. >> seriously, you went to college with stephen colbert, and i think you were in this picture before we whited it out. >> all right. >> tie die t-shirt. that'll be fun, and in a few

minutes, we'll bring in david gregory. chuck todd and joe klein. plus an exclusive look at politico's top stories of the morning, but first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, mika. i'm jealous, charleston's a beautiful place any time of year. much of the state has a chance of rain showers. does not look like a washout, though. temperatures should be very warm, into the 70s in most cases, that's the forecast as we go into the primary voting day on saturday. today, winter really showing up in the northern plains. not in this print, minus 32 in minneapolis, all of the northern plains is extremely cold. and a minisnowstorm, chicago tomorrow, and that's going to arrive in areas of the east on saturday. i'm thinking maybe boston, somewhere southern new england, possibly new york city and philadelphia. you may have enough snow to finally play with and take the kids outside to be in.

you're watching "morning joe." of course, we're brewed by starbucks. is it fast? it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street-legal. ♪ is it safe? oh, yeah. it's a volkswagen. [ male announcer ] the security of a jetta. one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪

hey, welcome back to "morning joe." willie, don't you love this state, willie? >> the best. >> so friendly. >> this city, we were out last night, out to dinner, had a couple drinks, didn't want to go home. beautiful out here. >> it is amazing place. >> should we go check in with mike allen. >>? how is mike doing? he's been busy reading. i'm not sure he has anything -- >> it's not mike allen, i made that up. sorry, false advertising. >> it's not vandehei, is it? >> oh, wait, here's the good news, usually we hate to talk to jim vandehei, but today, let's talk about the packers with him.

i don't want to talk politics. >> i hate to rub in the fact -- >> you're a mean man. >> a humble team with a 9-7 record went on a field trip to the frozen tundra and took down. >> -- historic lambeau field. >> i guess the question is, what happened, jim? >> i don't know what the hell happened. why do you have to bring that up. i can't drink this early in the morning, so i can't do anything about it. we could spend an hour dissecting why it happened, though. >> no, i don't think you want to do that. >> i'm sorry to disappoint too. >> i really thought the giants were going to collapse, and i never -- i never give eli manning the credit he deserves. i don't know what it is. maybe peyton is more of a forceful character, but in the playoffs, eli comes through. >> he -- they went in waves. they had a terrible middle of the season and came back and had a strong finish to the season. he's gone on the road in playoffs and beaten the cowboys, gone to lambeau, beaten them

twice, beat tom brady in the super bowl a couple of years ago. >> unbelievable. >> aaron rodgers had it right. we got beat. eli manning beat us. he makes terrific throws in the playoffs, it's good for you giants fans. >> and by the way, the score should have been much worse than it was. the refs were trying to keep you guys in the game. the poll out shows newt gingrich is closing a little bit here in south carolina. >> no doubt. 37%, 30% in our poll, it shows a huge tightening, newt gingrich is clearly the alternative choice in south carolina, well ahead of santorum, well ahead of perry. i think perry measured at about 4% in the poll. if you look at people who are definitely going to support a candidate, it's a virtual tie, 23%, 22%, i believe between the two candidates. newt is surging. there's no doubt about it. and the question is, will those other conservatives who like

perry and santorum go to gingrich over the next 48 hours and give him a win? if he wins, we have a real race on our hands. and romney's doing better than newt. >> it's a big if. >> i didn't hear all of it. because i was eating some shrimp and grits. >> bratwurst. >> did you say post debate it was just a one-point spread? >> no, for people who say they're definitely going to vote for somebody, they're definitely going to support a candidate, it's a tie between romney and gingrich. meaning there's a lot of uncertainty still in this race and gingrich could capitalize on it. this abc story's going to be huge. because gingrich is not doing as well with evangelical women as he is in south carolina. i think it could have a big implication on this race. and as far as the ethics of it that you guys were debating earlier, like abc should run it quickly and defiantly and

unapologetical unapologetically. when you get news, you run it. voters are smart enough to process that information. when you get it, run it. >> but willie, you brought up before the "esquire" interview. >> yeah. >> she didn't trash him. she doesn't strike me as a bitter woman at all. she -- i thought she had some remarkable observations about him. all you need to know about newt is, he's always wanted to be a member of the country club and if people knew how easy it was to buy him off with that, it would be shocking and frightening to him. that, willie, i think for a lot of republicans that saw how he became more moderate once he had power is as damning as any other revelation. >> the question is, will she get more personal in this abc interview? will she talk about that relationship? she has said previously i could give an interview that will end his political career. she did not do that --

>> in the news cycle with the debate. it's going to have to be something pretty big to breakthrough what the coverage will be in south carolina focused on the debate. >> a couple other interesting numbers in south carolina. you asked, will mitt romney's work at bain capital impact the way you vote? 70% said it makes no difference whatsoever. another question, will mitt romney's fate as a mormon impact how you vote in south carolina. 83% say it makes no difference whatsoever. >> you know, seriously, jim, that is such a non-issue. i was talking before about grievance and what drives conservatives. i can tell you a great thing that drove conservatives coming out of the 60s into the '70s and '70ss 80s had to do with what conservatives considered cultural decay. in my very republican family, jim, my parents always saw mormons as allies, people on our side that -- i just -- i don't see this in the south. and i'm from the south, i've lived in just about every state in the south.

>> particularly when the economy and our poll shows what every other poll shows, 60% of the people say it's the economy, it's the only issue that matters, you have 10% unemployment in that state. this election, south carolina, florida, the general election, it's all going to be dictated by the economy. and it's clear that the bain attacks haven't hurt him, they have hurt him on the edges. and when those taxes come out, if they come out, certainly could lead into a very bad narrative for mitt romney and start to chip away at the electability argument. you have to look at the totality of attacks that go at a candidate, not one in isolation, i think. >> all right. jim vandehei, you are no mike allen. >> not even close. >> thanks, jim. and your team stinks too. >> put some socks on. >> that's love. >> go back and take -- >> go back to your block of cheese, buddy. still ahead, joe klein says newt's stamp out poverty plan

might have a little bit of merit. we'll ask joe about that. and up next, how rob lowe turned an ordinary afternoon into a fire storm with the indianapolis colts and their fans. we'll explain when we come back. live from charleston, south carolina. >> what did he do? hey guys, breakfast! ♪ [ female announcer ] if whole grain isn't the first ingredient in your breakfast cereal, what is? now, in every box of general mills big g cereal, there's more whole grain than any other ingredient. that's why it's listed first on the side. from honey nut cheerios to cinnamon toast crunch to lucky charms, get more whole grain than any other ingredient...

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♪ welcome back to the mills house in charleston, south carolina. a beautiful location. we'll be here today and tomorrow. that's loretta. >> is that cgi or is that real? >> no, that's loretta outside. beautiful animal. we don't often start our sports cast with rob lowe. >> oh, he's very nice. >> a great guy. and didn't you do some work with him in the theater? >> i did, a long time ago. >> was a euphemism? what was that like for you personally? >> what are you doing? >> he's great. >> he's really very nice. >> he's very open, he's very warm. >> mika played "snow white." >> is that a euphemism for

something? >> i was his apprentice at the williamstown theater. >> in 1987, how do you think that worked out? >> just fine. he was very nice to me. >> i'm sure he was. >> and a complete gentleman. >> i'm sure he was. >> was he a gentleman? >> he had no choice, but yes, absolutely. >> because you told all of us and he admitted he was aggressive. >> he was a very aggressive young man, but he's transformed himself. he did have that animal period. >> and that was the period where you were his apprentice. >> i was his apprentice -- >> she wore one of those killer bee outfits they can't sting you, they can't get to you. >> we need apprentices, by the way. >> the good news is, he's gone from that animal stage to the nfl insider stage. he's a nice man now. >> rob lowe yesterday caused a bit of a fire storm by fueling or creating speculation that

colts star quarterback peyton manning was about to retire. >> what? >> lowe and his show is set in indiana. he tweeted hearing that my fave peyton manning will not return to the nfl. wow. he later tweeted nfl network host "my people are saying manning will retire today. what do you hear?" what do you hear, rob. >> that's a direct message. he didn't -- >> that went out to the whole world. colts fans, let's hope my info is wrong. i don't like being wrong, but this time i'm hoping. the actor is friends with the colts owner, he's been on the sidelines in past years, there's no official response yet from manning. he's out this season, of course, with a neck injury. but his father got himself -- >> archie who? >> old number 18 to shoot down the rumor telling espn that if peyton were retiring, he likes to think he would've told his old man before told rob lowe. so rest easy, colts fans.

>> so we don't know, rob may have been right? >> he still may be right. >> you're peyton manning, though, and thinking about how you want to make the announceme announcement. i'm thinking i want rob lowe to tweet it to the world first. >> rob lowe or judd nelson. >> wait a second. >> you guys are stuck in '87. >> we want a "st. elmo's fire" reunion tour. you for your temper, you for your -- >> tantrums. >> tennis. >> right. >> here's the australian open. a $1,200 fine for this fella. an epic temper tantrum yesterday. down two sets -- >> look, joe. it looks like you. >> took it out on his racket. >> that looks like you. >> calmly hands it to it will ball boy and gets another one. >> seriously? >> hands that one to the ball boy, let me get another one out. come on. >> he didn't even take that one out of the plastic. >> do i have anymore? yeah, four. he destroyed four rackets.

he came back to win the third set but went on to lose the match. he's one of a number of players to be fined for losing his cool. >> i'm sorry, you're saying -- >> sometimes you appreciate that expression. >> do you remember the time -- >> i respect that guy very much now. >> it was an apprentice. >> that's right. >> macenro or board? >> macenro, commers. >> mika's must-read opinion pages are back when we come back to the mills house in charleston, south carolina. >> i know i'll be alone in this one. brad, where we going?

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♪ this is really good. all right. it's 46 past the hour, we're at the mills house hotel in charleston, south carolina. gearing up for the south carolina primary. time now for the must-read opinion pages. let's go to the "new york times," the 1% and that 15% it's called and it's the paper's editorial. mr. romney is clearly hoping that drawing this process of releasing his 2011 tax return out for another three months and copping the low rate early on he will deflect at least some of the shock about the size of his personal wealth and what a great deal you get from the government if like mr. romney you make most of your money from investing. if mr. romney has done one good thing with his partial disclosure, although it clearly wasn't his goal, he has rep mmid

americans of the fundamental unfairness of the tax code and how determined he and his party are to keep it that way. mr. romney does not have to apologize for his wealth, but cannot keep trying to conceal just how much the tax code has been tilted in his favor. >> well, there's so many things to say here. first of all, in the republican primary, most americans would not be shocked by mr. romney's personal wealth. in fact, most of them do not begrudge him his personal wealth. secondly, i'm not an accountant, though i play one on tv. but if i'm not mistaken, that 15% has already been taxed the first time at 35%. so we're talking double taxation here. so the idea that mitt romney is getting a salary and paying 15%, that's clearly false. he gets his salary, he makes his investment with money that's already been taxed and then he pays 15% on capital gains tax. >> that is correct. >> that is correct. >> but i do believe in a state

like south carolina, just like in many other states there are republicans who are unemployed, and there are republicans who are members of the middle class who are feeling squeezed who may not take too kindly to hearing some of these numbers and the way they're spelled out. >> well, as i -- first of all, as -- to joe's point. we don't really know the answer to this question yet. there's a question whether some of this income is carried interest from the management fees from bain, which wouldn't be a double taxation, that would be a straight 15% tax on carried interest, and there's a big debate -- that might -- it depends on which category of income we're talking about. on the second point, mika, that's right. this is a hard-pressed state economically. i don't think people begrudge him his wealth, but i do think -- especially, the more damaging thing from yesterday was the very cavalier way he referred to his $375,000 in speaking -- >> i think that's the killer. >> that to me for a working class, middle class, even upper

middle class earner in any state in the country sounds sort of like, really? $375,000 is not much to you, buddy? >> it's average if you pare it down $40,000 a speech. >> and mark haleprin, the question mark is, again, going back to this conservative leader i spoke with yesterday for some time about this issue. why the hell did he take the money in the first place? he didn't need the money. he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars, why take $40,000 for a speech? even if you're going to give it away eventually? >> all of this is manageable if the candidate performs well. but he's made about half dozen errors in the last two weeks that gives pause even with people who are supporters who are saying we cannot beat an incumbent president with $1 billion to spend. they're going to make mistakes. >> by the way, mark, even people

inside his own campaign who have been supporting him for a long time are saying what's he doing? this guy is making one mistake after another that we're having to clean up. >> what's the campaign doing? >> and financial and economic stuff goes back a long way. this is now a year of this from corporations are people too, to i know what it's like to be unemployed and i like to fire people. he's creating a greatest hits reel for david axelrod to run because they're all of a piece. they're all off-key, out of touch comments that go to specifically to his wealth and economics and financial matters. and that is a big problem in the general election. >> and willie, you look at these mistakes all tied together. dp again, with the bigger question, why didn't the people around romney say let's release your tax records now. guess what, in the spring of 2011, it's just not a story. you'll have six months to have this digested to explain anything that can't be

explained. and then you won't be talking off the top of your head, oh, i made $375,000, not a whole lot of money on speeches. and it seems like the people around him could have done a lot better job. >> we had yesterday, chris christie, a guy in this state tomorrow in support of mitt romney on our show yesterday saying put your taxes out there. i've always had the policy get it all out there, mitt romney ought to do the same thing. also, correct me if i'm wrong, but i think romney gave the money from his book to charity. he had the presence of mind to do that, but not the speeches, it's interesting. >> we'll be right back with "news you can't use" with willie geist. is it fast? it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it?

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oh, yes. please tell me it's time. >> it is indeed. it's time for a special edition of news you can't use. >> that's good. >> south carolina native stephen colbert is going to be on this very show sitting in one of these seats -- >> he is not. >> it's crazy. >> he's formed an exploratory committee to run for president. >> why get in the way of a good gag? >> his former super pac was up with a hard-hitting ad

yesterday. hard-hitting against colbert. >> what? >> america is in crisis. and stephen colbert is turning our election into a circus. this east coast hollywood elite is exploring a run for president of the united states of america. and come on, why is the "t" in his name silent? what else is he silent about? letting murderers out of jail? now a super pac that he founded is running attack ads against him just so we'll think they're not coordinating. enough is enough! i've had it with these money grubbing super pacs messing with our monday to friday elections. >> south carolina, send stephen colbert a message. on january 21st, vote herman cain. >> oh, my gosh. what was that? what was that? >> what was that? >> what is it?

>> an attack ad on stephen colbert. >> something -- >> with -- >> i think he was hurting a bird, a dove in a terrible way. by the way, there was a ppp poll out that showed stephen colbert with a higher favorability in the state of south carolina than any of the other candidates. up next, joe klein. when i grow up, i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday.

♪

we haven't talked about anything at all. governor palin is somebody who i think was a very good reform governor. she was extraordinarily effective in negotiating with big oil. she did a good job in the state of alaska. i think she's a very articulate leader of the tea party conservative movement. i was honored and delighted last night when she said if she were in south carolina, she'd vote for newt gingrich. i hope everybody who likes her decides she's right, and i hope they vote for me. i would ask her to consider taking a major role in the next administration if i'm president. >> yeah. there you go. in fact, he's going to put her in his administration. >> that's what he just said. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> it's exciting. >> we are live from the mills house in charleston, south carolina. >> yeah. >> i think that kind of seals it with me. those comments. but -- >> you're going with me.

>> the thing is what's so fascinating, you've been so on the fence with newt gingrich, it's exciting to see that the sarah palin endorsement puts you over the top. >> was it an endorsement? what cabinet position would she have? >> i don't know, we'll have to talk to newt about that. >> i was just wondering. john heilemann still with us. am i making you uncomfortable? >> yes. and we have that picture of joe klein up. it was from the summer of sam. had everything but like the studio 54 wristband. >> you look very handsome. >> he was working for the boston phoenix then. >> i was working for "rolling stone." >> even -- >> there, that explains it. >> that feeds more into the narrative we're trying to delicately push here. >> this was well beyond the -- before the ice age. >> look at this. for -- for a lot of new yorkers, it was the summer of sam, for joe klein, it was the summer of coke. but anyway, he loves --

>> coca-cola. coca-cola. >> he's -- >> it's the year he did a love american style segment. >> yes. >> we have so much stuff going on. >> yes, we do, a cornucopia of news. >> an e-mail updating one of our headlines this morning about mitt romney and placing some funds in the cayman islands and how that plays. i'm going to read that for clarity and balance, which they bring to the table and they claim makes no difference because of the tax structure. first, let's get to the polls, a new nbc marist polls mitt romney with a ten-point lead over newt gingrich in south carolina. romney getting 34% of the vote followed by gingrich with 24%, ron paul coming in with 16%, santorum, 14%. at the fox news debate on monday and gingrich's perceived strong performance -- >> look at these numbers. our nbc poll shows romney dropping six points here and gingrich jumping four. the nbc poll shows 56% of voters

view the former massachusetts governor as an acceptable nominee, 26% say he's acceptable, be uh they have reservations, and 17% say romney is not acceptable to represent the republican party. this may have to do with the fact that only 13% of republican voters think romney is a true conservative. >> that said, though, if you go back to the last screen, i've got to say, in a heated -- in a heated primary contest with so many candidates, if you've got over 70 people saying you're acceptable to the party, those are good numbers. for any candidate. but, joe, we've been talking about mitt's bad luck, a lot of self-inflicted wounds and -- >> that's not luck. >> yeah, apparently. but just the timing of all of these other things. now iowa may be falling -- i want to show you quickly, though. this does blow a hole in the theory that he is not acceptable to the party base. i mean, there you have actually 82% saying he's acceptable in

one form or another. but now iowa. looks like it's going to go into santorum's column. how does that shake up the race? >> well, he's a very brittle candidate. when things start getting tough, you know, he starts getting in the problem. something weird's happening in my ear. >> me too. ignore it. >> just stay focused on me and breathe deeply. >> it's going in and out. >> wow, man. no, it's just -- but there's something about mitt romney. he was in private equity capital, which was like taking companies from public to private. and number two, he's a mormon. and as john was saying before, we're going to see that he ties an awful lot of money to the church. and so there's a part of him, there's a good part of him that doesn't want the public to know basic facts about -- there's a natural defensiveness to the guy. and it shows up when the

pressure is on as it was on monday night when he gave that terrible answer to the income tax question. i mean, you know, there's -- and then the amateurism involved in that -- >> yeah. >> in not releasing your returns is just astonishing. >> what are you seeing out there? when you go from event to event? we've heard that the newt crowds are energized, they're on fire. >> yeah. and -- >> leaning forward. >> the real anguish is with the santorum crowds right now. because their hearts are with santorum, but their heads are telling them, looks like newt's the only guy to stop romney. >> are you sensing that, as well? there may be some -- >> some of us thought that romney would come in here with a chance to close this out is the assumption that perry who came straight here from iowa and santorum would keep a fair share of the vote dividing the social conservative anti-romney vote. perry does not seem to be able to get into double digits.

>> he's not taking off. >> and joe's right about the santorum people. if they want to stop romney, newt has looked like for the last week about the right person. >> you said there was a calmness to him, a self-assuredness. sounds like a guy who knows he's getting out of the race but wants to finish on a high note. >> he's culturally comfortable here, but i don't get the sense anyone in his campaign thinks this is going on after saturday. >> where has ron paul gone? >> well, he's back on planet neptune. >> oh. oh. >> i haven't seen him around this state all week. >> right. it's also a closed primary here. it's a southern state, what he said the other night in the debates. even for a guy like me that think he's a nice counterbalance to a mass of centralized federal government. and so i -- i like the message. i like the small government message. when he starts talking on foreign policy like he was

talking the other night, you do ask where is this guy from? and that's just not going to play in south carolina. and i'm sure rom knows it. >> you go back to what's happening on the right. and the narrative romney is now inevitable and the discussion of that going on in the national media coming out of new hampshire, i think that is having an affect on conservative voters. generally people aren't strategic voters. people vote with their hearts, vote for a candidate they like. but you are now on the right among those who want to try -- who think mitt romney's the wrong person to be the nominee and who if nothing else don't want to see a quick coronation of romney. you are having these discussions in the same ways you had them back among new hampshire voters in 2008 on the democratic side. >> by the way, if this happens -- this happens all the time. joe klein, 1976, looked like gerald ford was going to roll all over ronald reagan. and reagan chases him to the convention. the same thing happened in 1980,

teddy kennedy started off miserably and looked like carter was going to sweep and voters said, wait, do we want this guy for four more years? teddy finished strong. this happens time and time again where early in a process looks like somebody's inevitable and again, that's when voters start taking the hard second look. >> inevitability is the second stupidest word that we journalist and politicians use -- >> what's the first? >> electability. >> oh, god. >> it's stupid. >> yeah. >> it is a stupid word because the assumption always is with republicans, get the most moderate guy and he will be the most electable in the general election, that's just not true. it's not even close. >> although it is true for democrats. >> it's true for democrats, the opposite is true for republicans. it just is. what else you got, mika? >> abc news. apparently it's not on his financial disclosure forms, but the network is reporting that

mitt romney has as much as $8 million in 12 investment funds set up in the cayman islands. saying the former massachusetts governor follows all tax laws and would pay the same taxes regardless of where his funds are located. and a day after romney revealed that his tax rate is lower than most americans, the conservative leaning national review is out with an editorial calling on the front-runner to release his tax returns. >> okay. so you got an e-mail. we don't have to go into the content of it. but this is a -- this is a -- >> well, i think it's fair because one of these supporters of mitt romney is looking at why he had these funds in the cayman islands. and apparently it's for non-u.s. investors. makes it easier for them -- >> you said the tax rate is the same. you're going to find out the tax rate's the same regardless. you're parking your investment in the cayman islands.

again, it's kind of like the 15%, it's more perception than reality as far as -- >> and again, i don't know why this took so long. i feel like his campaign has really let him down here in terms of how they roll this out. he was left to be fired by the press. >> they've been doing this for eight years! how did they not know? >> there is a possibility they have been going to him and saying, come on, mitt, you've got to do this. >> mark, have you heard anything? >> if there were -- if david axelrod could design the candidate they were going to run against, he'd say, let's give him money in the cayman islands, have him pay 15% effective rate on the income. let's have him say that. that sounds like -- >> it sounds like john kerry. john kerry in 2004, even -- >> all of these things, all of these things -- >> and they both speaker

french -- >> i'll bet you romney has been caught eating french fries too. >> they could have put the tax returns on out on the day of the national championship on friday night or the day of the debate and dealt with it. >> charleston, st. patrick's day. >> and all of this can be handled with great performance skills. the campaign has not handled this well, and now in the heat of the moment -- he's not a high-performing candidate. he's brittle as joe said and it's the combination of those things. >> if you were rolling in it, joe, and someone asked you about your tax returns, what would you say? >> i'd go, yeah, let me show you how much money i made. i worked really hard, i did my best at times to give the 10%. if i had to do it all over again, my only regret would be i didn't work harder and make more money and give more money away.

you've got to be frank because americans are aspirational. they want to believe -- and chris dodd was saying this yesterday. one of chris dodd's biggest problems when he tried to open up swimming the long island sound in greenwich, he thought it would be a populist move. he said he got hammered. there were all of these people that lived in ranch houses up by hartford and hated it because they all knew some day, they dreamed, they were aspirational they were going to have those houses and didn't want people from hartford walking on their beach front. but for chris dodd to say th that -- americans don't resent people who are successful, but he's brittle and you're exactly right. he's brittle. >> there's another side of the coin, they don't resent someone who is successful, but they say that guy doesn't know -- if a guy made $375,000 making speeches and saying it's not so

much, most americans say -- >> exactly. >> oh, that's five years for me. >> him being that disconnected. fdr never had these problems, fdr was from a -- >> and i actually think there were -- people who come from wealthy families with a lot of inherited wealth often are very uncomfortable talking about it in a way -- if you're up from nothing and you worked your way up and there was nothing -- my family had nothing. >> i lived in a log cabin, by the way. >> those kind of people are very unembarrassed, unashamed at the hard work. i'm not saying mitt romney didn't work hard, but you find people from very wealthy families who are kind of like, money's not something we like to talk about in public. more awkward. >> his dad ran american motors, many i dad ran a little league baseball team. >> as we said in mississippi, a dixie youth baseball team. but you're right, though, he is -- he is uncomfortable with

it. david brooks last week wrote an incredible column about what makes a great president. and the first thing was -- >> that was. >> they are comfortable with themselves, they are comfortable in their own skin and talked about fdr and reagan and all these people that were comfortable in their own skin. and -- >> barack obama. and the other thing is that almost all of these guys had strong, doting mothers. roosevelt certainly. >> right. >> obama, certainly. >> yeah. >> kennedy, not so much. >> not so much. the guy that bitterly said my mother never hugged me, not so much. we haven't talked about one issue that on any other day we'd be talking about nonstop. a big policy decision yesterday by the obama administration. i must say, i don't understand it for a lot of different reasons, but i'm going to let you guys comment on it. keystone, the president killed the permitting for keystone. and i'm just wondering, wouldn't

this be a good issue for him to reach out to the middle on? am i wrong about that? >> no, the campaign this year is like the stupid olympics. these guys -- obama just made, i think, a very big mistake at a time when we have 9% unemployment, the one most important consideration in any political decision is jobs. and whether there are 2,500 jobs or 2,000 jobs, you go with it. >> what's the motivation inside the white house? because the president -- the president wants to win independent voters. he wants jobs, he wants more energy. what is the hold up here? >> he wants his base. >> the base would not forgive him for this? >> college campuses, there's a lot of environmental sentiment, this is a big issue. >> i don't think it's purely political. i think the president doesn't think this is the right -- that

the country's ready to make the decision, primarily because of safety concerns. but i think it is reflective of the fact he has not brought the country together on controversial issues which he promised to do. >> john, is this also a question of clean energy? it's sort of like the immigration debate. i sit here and wonder why doesn't the president allow anybody, like tom friedman always says, if you get an advanced degree from our one of our best schools in engineering, you get your diploma, we flip it over, and staple -- i understand, and steve jobs, we've got the back and forth with steve jobs who was upset with the president for doing this. he told steve jobs, well, you know, it has to be part of the big comprehensive deal. is that the same thing with keystone? he'll do this, but wants to be part of a big comprehensive deal with clean energy and everything else? >> i think that's true. and what he would say to joe is that the jobs benefits are

according to experts relatively small and there are safety risks. and he would quibble on the economic benefits of it. and then he would say, you know, we need to have a big conversation about the energy future of the country and this can't be -- this decision shouldn't be made in isolation. his problem is -- he's had a chance for three years to have that conversation and hasn't led that conversation. that's where he's been weak. this is a conversation he should've had since day one. >> i understand his base, but my goodness, this is a weakness where i his republican opponent, i would talk about keystone nonstop. i talk about jobs. >> there's going to be. >> i would talk about energy, i would talk about energy independence. >> are you talking about the republicans needing to do this? >> if i were the republican challenger in the fall, this would be a great issue. this isn't drill, baby drill, by the way. >> the republicans are talking

about it. >> by the way -- >> hold on one second. actually, everybody needs to hold on one second because the republicans are trying to make this to be a lot more complicated than it is. and the white house is stressing that the president's decision does not kill the proposed pipeline entirely, but rather calls for more time. just more time to explore alternative routes through less environmentally sensitive areas. they went on the attack on capitol hill and take a listen to what they had to say. >> president obama is destroying tens of thousands of american jobs and shipping american energy security to the chinese. there's really no other way to put it. the president is selling out american jobs for politics. the president has said he'll do anything he can to crease jobs. today, that promise was broken. this is a stunningly stupid thing to do.

these people are so out of touch with reality, it's as though they were governing mars. >> you know, actually newt gingrich picked up that phrase stunningly stupid from your father -- >> no. >> your father talking to me. >> no, he called you stunningly superficial. you have to get your facts right. >> you are stunningly superficial. >> uh-huh. >> so of course they're going to bring this up, mika, in the primary campaign. i think the importance of this, though, moving forward is again the general election campaign independent voters. that's what i was talking about. when republicans ran around four years ago and drill, baby, drill. i don't think that had resonance with independent voters, this will. and natural energy. i don't think it's red meat. i've got to disagree with you here. i think a lot of sane, rational people think we need to -- we

need to work toward energy independence. so this may be a small step. but it's a good step and it'll create jobs. >> absolutely. i don't think they want to cut it off completely. there's the issues of the complications of the environmental. >> can i speak? >> you can speak and you can speak. >> we're only talking about a small part of nebraska here. >> right. >> there are going to be a lot of people out in the country who say why can't we do things the way we used to do? why does it take more than 60 days to evaluate the pipeline for one part of one state? >> and actually, that's another good contrast between -- we're competing against china. who can basically in six hours decide that they're going to lay down light rail over, you know -- >> they can also arrest people who get in the way. joe klein, thank you very much. >> my goodness. >> this is stupid. >> i'm going to keep quiet now.

the new cover of "time" magazine is obama's world. we'll be reading that and willie geist, what do you have coming up? >> a little history about the hotel we're at. mills house opened in 1853, in 1860, december of that year after abraham lincoln was elected, the order of secession was read from the balcony of this hotel. less than a year later in the autumn of 1861, this, the headquarters for general robert e. lee for a brief time and now, of course, most historical of all, "morning joe" here for two days. coming up next on "morning joe," we'll have chuck todd and david gregory. and tomorrow, stephen colbert, the son of south carolina himself will be on the set with us here at the mills house. you're watching "morning joe" live from charleston. -i love this card. -with the bankamericard cash rewards credit card,

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why is mitt romney attacking newt gingrich? ask john mccain. >> the best indicator that i'm doing very well is when your attacked by romney. >> mitt romney has a history of negative campaigning. ask mike huckabee. >> mitt romney's running a desperate and dishonest campaign. >> mitt romney will do and say anything to become president. anything. maybe that explains all his flip-flops. >> 27 past the hour, and joining us now from rock hills, south carolina, nbc news chief white house correspondent and host of the "daily rundown" chuck todd. and in washington, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. >> chuck todd, what are you hearing? >> well, the newt surge not only felt real before our nbc marist poll came out, but you could just see it. it's not just him, but you also

see a fading of santorum, went to an event yesterday in lauren, south carolina, he had maybe 35 people show up for that. so you're seeing -- and that's really what this game is about, right? we know that newt has caught a little bit of fire. we know that romney has a ceiling here. the question is, how much does santorum get? what is the pie? will romney and gingrich be splitting 30% of the vote, can 31% be a winning number for romney? if so, that's how he wins here. and santorum ending up down near 10%, and perry down below 5%, and you're splitting a bigger pie, there's probably more conservatives, and if you look at our poll where gingrich is really strong is among the quarter of the electorate that call themselves very conservative. but he's got room to grow there. he's strong among those that are evangelica evangelicals. who knows what happens if this

maryann gingrich interview is something we haven't heard before. of course, we haven't seen her on camera. there's a lot of what ifs in the next 48 houhours, but you can f the momentum before you saw it in the poll numbers. >> david gregory, it seems every campaign has a near-death experience, successful ones. reagan in 1980, bush in '88, bush jr. -- or w. bush when he lost by 19 percentage points in new hampshire. this seems to be mitt romney's time. it's not a near-death experience, but he has had a terrible ten days. and now we get to see what he's made of and what his campaign's made of. talk about what you're hearing inside that campaign about their concerns. >> well, and also among prominent republicans i've talked to down in the state. i think you're right. this is the first time he's had his nose bloodied in this campaign. i realize iowa is now something of a tie, he wins new hampshire,

but it's in south carolina where everybody anticipated he'd have a problem. one, gingrich is leading this populist surge aided and abetted by romney over this tax issue and his inability to connect with working class voters. when you've got unemployment at the level you've got it in south carolina, gingrich can go in there, talk about obama being, you know, the food stamp president. he can talk about romney being out of touch. that ad you showed coming into the segment, i think, was very effective. saying to south carolina voters, look, you've all heard that this thing is almost over, that romney is cruising to victory here, but has he really closed the sale? and i talked to republicans who say his lack of passion is an issue. his inability to connect is an issue. and there's a third point, which is there are a fair amount of libertarian voters that are in these primaries. you look at how paul is polling. has anybody tapped in to reflect those views besides paul? is romney going after any of those voters in a meaningful way

that could have some impact? you put all that together and that's what we're seeing in the numbers. >> chuck todd, war game this for us if you could because in new hampshire we did a lot of that, but ultimately, it was easy for romney to lock up. what makes south carolina different? what makes this potentially much more of a battleground between romney and gingrich? >> well, i think david hit the nail on the head there. when you talk about this populist idea here in south caroli a little bit, economic populism which gingrich said he was going to try to capture. this has been her best message when she's been able to get off talking about herself and talking about crony capitalism, the convergence of the anger that's out there both at the government and at big banks and wall street and things like that. and that's what gingrich has been trying to tap into.

waffling on this issue of his own personal wealth, by the attacks on bain capital. while our polls show voters haven't really responded to that, it's both issues together which put romney on the defensive. going to this err of evidentability. we were talking about this historic first, romney might go three in a row, we might find out he went 1-2, and his only victory is in his backyard with the least conservative electorate you will see until hawaii votes. so it is -- you know, this error of inevitability about romney has been very important in his campaign. he wants electability to be the issue. you see it on his tv ads here. but boy, if that goes away, he's got the thing that the romney camp has got to worry about, he doesn't have a base to sort of rely on. you need a base sometimes of rock ribbed -- whether you're democrat or republican, but rock-ribbed supporters.

are they there? what does romney rely on? he's got money and a little bit of the establishment. and you certainly see his path forward, but it could suddenly lengthen this primary campaign in a way that they're prepared for, but it could be ugly. and joe, if i could -- >> we just learned today, willie geist that as goes new hampshire so goes hawaii. >> that's right. >> i did not know that until now. >> chuck drawing the straight line. david, my question to you -- my question to you, david, follows up on what chuck just said, which was take a step back and look at the big picture. if newt gingrich wins here or if he loses by a margin of five points, say. does it change the fact that mitt romney is still the most likely goo to be tbe the nomine. is there a scenario in which he does not become the nominee? we've seen polls giving romney a big lead there. does this change things big

picture wise? >> well, i don't think so. and i haven't talked to any republican who thinks that's the case. in south carolina or beyond. but at the same time, romney's got to close the deal here. and he's got to do it where he's touching all the legs of the stool of the republican primary voter. and i think that's very important. look, what we're seeing this week is his greatest strength, his real world experience, private sector experience can also be his weakness. because he's very wealthy, he has a history in venture capital, which is very difficult to explain to american voters, particularly at a time of great economic distress. so this electability argument i think is what has undermined some. among some voters who say, wait a minute, before we let this guy cruise to the nomination, is he firing me up here? does he earn my vote and how he makes me feel about president of the united states? and here's the other side of that coin, which is newt gingrich, we are going to be reminded in the next 48 hours of

the fact that newt gingrich has a good deal of personal baggage. he can overcome that. we've seen that among politicians before. but as one republican said to me this week, if gingrich is the nominee, there is no way that this fall campaign can be about barack obama. because newt gingrich is an outsized figure with a lot of history in washington and a lot of personal history that he becomes a big target. it becomes many ways about him when republicans want to make this election solely about barack obama. gentlemen, listen to this, erickson is calling on perry to end his campaign saying if rick perry stays in the race, conservatives opposed to mitt romney will be legitimately be able to blame rick perry for dragging down either newt or santorum with newt gingrich surging according to latest poll and sarah palin saying she'd support him. perry's withdrawal and endorsement before saturday could ensure a gingrich win. >> john, this is an interesting development.

only because rick perry announced he was running for president at a red state forum, and erick erickson has made no secret of the fact that he's a big rick perry fan, and now he and other conservatives are saying get out of the way. >> there's one thing that he feels more strongly about is that he really does not want mitt romney to be the nominee. and so he's moved into that strategic position that some voters here are. i have a question for chuck, and i noticed last night that jeff greenfield tweeted that if gingrich were to win here you'd see a lot of establishment republicans starting to re-raise the question, can we get somebody else in this race because mitt romney might be too weak? not electable, not good enough candidate and gingrich is not -- chuck, do you think we're going to start if gingrich wins here, will we hear the republican establishment a cry go up for

someone else to get in this race? and if that happens, is it possible? >> reporter: you know, i would say not yet. it would have to -- you would have to see romney collapse in florida too. i think ultimately the romney campaign has always seen florida as the real fire wall. they talked about new hampshire, that was the launch, but the real fire wall's always been florida. and you've got to be careful with florida because it's a closed primary, it'll be as conservative of a voter -- of an electora electorate, frankly, as south carolina will look, even though if you had independents come in, it would look a heck of a lot different in florida. but that will be a tricky place for romney if suddenly he's losing momentum. if suddenly he has a hard time. now he's got the resources to actually advertise in all the markets, to actually get a plane and be able to do stops from the two time zones that florida does cover from pensacola to miami. it does -- i think it would have to him losing florida. that said, it's funny to watch

this republican primary play out. and sometimes i'm having a flashback to '92. and how many times did we hear the democratic establishment getting nervous about bill clinton and looked like he couldn't beat jerry brown in the connecticut primary and there was chatter. so he got through that and we all know what happened. >> david, one thing we haven't mentioned today, which we would be talking a lot about another day, the president's going on with tv ads. what do you make of that? >> i think it's really interesting. i had the same reaction. the fact that he's playing defense here against super pac money that's going to be launched against him in all of these states. and i think, frankly, you know, if you look at some of the polling of his standing among independent voters, this is going to be about a bigger theme of role of government. how the administration has managed the economy, trying to reach independent voters who i think are open to making a

different choice in this election. but i think the president understands that some of these things are building enough steam, not just in republican circles, but enough to color people's judgments about how he's running the economy. >> all right, gentlemen, thanks very much. chuck todd, we'll be watching "the daily rundown" right after "morning joe." david gregory, thank you, as well. your guest on "meet the press" on sunday governor chris christie. >> hold on, hold on, hold on -- >> what? >> david told me he was going to interview me and christie was going to be the round table. what's going on here? >> no. no. >> clearly a mistake in the graphic there, joe. >> okay. very good. >> oh, good luck with that. we'll talk to south carolina republican party chairman chad connolly coming up. and south carolina's state representative bakari sellers. "morning joe" back in a moment. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." 46 past the hour. we're live at the mills house in charleston, south carolina. with us now, the founder and ceo of the come back america initiative, david walker back on the show. good to have you. especially, what, the week before the state of the union and the president's consolidating things. >> no doubt about it. i'm sure he likes the consolidati consolidation. we were talking last block about how there's no small government conservative other than ron paul. occupying that space in the republican field. this has always been a big part of republican politics, but it seems at a time when our national debt is more crushing

than ever, politicians on both sides are afraid to talk about what really has to be done. >> well, government -- >> seems like a huge opening for a candidate. >> it is. government's grown too big, promised too much, waited too long to restructure. we're going to hear the state of the union next week, and typically every president says the state of our union is strong. and the truth is, it's not. and it hasn't been for a while. when you have unemployment and underemployment as high as it is, when you have the financial condition the united states as poor as it is and deteriorating, when you have political d dysfunctionalty as we talked about. we talked about immigration, fiscal, and this is not a republican or democrat thing and it's not an obama thing. we haven't had a plan in these areas ever. we have no plan. and so we're going nowhere fast. >> you open up the papers last week, and you see that italy's in trouble and basically all of europe's been downgraded, france

has been downgraded, and the euro's going up in flames. california's in terrible shape. our states are in terrible shape. why is it that this year when it seems like deficits and debt and fiscal restraint should be -- like ross perot in 1992, why is there not that candidate running this year? >> there may be. i was with ross perot yesterday and there are strong parallels between 1992 and 2012. >> you say what -- >> well, america elect is coming up with a to be determined unity slate that will be determined in a national online primary determined by the end of june. and we'll see who the republicans nominate, we know president obama's going to be on the ballot and we'll see the space in the middle. what we need is an issues campaign. and in '92, perot ran on political dysfunctionality, and declining confidence in the

future. we are worse off in every category. and both parties are responsible for it. and the last ten years have been the most irresponsible in the history. we're at a cross say the middl? actually, i'll tell what you, i think with barack obama and mitt romney if, mitt romney gets it, we have two people that occupy sort of the status quo. i think there's an opening actually for a sort of conservative/pop lift that not only goes against big government but also calls out big business, john. >> i think it's true. i think there is actually -- i'll tease myself a little bit here. i'm writing something next week about america's electing third party -- there's a poll they've done that is going to be written next week. it is incredible how much support there is that they're finding for this notion. highest it's ever been. people open to the eye of a third party candidacy or independent candidacy. i think the question is how do you frame -- i mean with all due

respect, it's a very -- this is all true. everything you just said is a matter of policy. there is something very kind of dark and pessimistic in terms of how you frame it which is, you know, save our country of our union. it is not strong. how does a politician find a way to address these very serious structural and long term economic fiscal monetary issues? and do so in a way that is optimistic? how do you win american politics? >> it's not hard. okay? the fact of the matter is this country was founded on certain principles and value. we strayed from them. we need to come back. in addition, we look at the top of the list of fiscal responsibility, australia, new zealand, sweden, top three. they had tough problems in the '90s. they made tough ch if they can do it, we can do it. >> what i would say is gingrich is not a question about whether america is going to own the new century or not this is a question whether washington is erinto get its act togeth and get out of the way so

americans can do what americans have always done. this is a washington problem. make no mistake of it. this is a washington proble on i. john, if you're writing this, i think more and more people are realizing not only is this not a left-right issue, this isn't a mushy middle issue going to lose. it's that simple. they need somebodyt will stridently go after big government, that wi stridently go after big business and not trying to splitth difference. that will get them a john anderson fight. >> exactly. >>you agree with that? >> exactly right, joe. u need a principle-base approach. start with truth, leadership and solutions. and they're out there. we don't get it through the normal presidency. >> everyone thinking in their heads. is a name? you got a name? >> not yet. >> all right.

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welcome back to "morning joe."

i'm outside with here with three lovely ladies. we have the people whose famz liz go way back. how long has your family been here? >> since 200 years. >> and yours? >> i have absolutely no idea. >> a long time. >> longer than i know. >> i didn't just call you out here because you happened to be holding that sign. i'm a little insulted because this is cheapened by this. do you think mike barnicle would be a good friend? >> i wanted to hold the willie sign but she wouldn't let me. >> you have another one out there also. >> mark halpern. >> these handsome men, of course. and we would like to see mika president, too. >> she's be a better president. >> ladies, thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate you coming out here so early. come back tomorrow. tomorrow stephen colbert will be back with usment we'll be right

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president obama wants to fundamentally transform america. i stand ready to lead us down

different path. this president has enacted job killing regulations. i'll eliminate them. he lost our aaa credit rating. i'll restore it. he passed obama care, i'll repeal it. i will cut cap and balance the federal budget. if you believe that the disappointments of the last two years are a detour, not a destiny, then i'm asking for your vote. i'm mitt romney and i approve this message. >> all right. that's interesting. welcome back to "morning joe." that was the last ad put out by mitt romney before the south carolina primary. what did you i >> i think it's a great ad. i think it's a great ad for a lot of different reasons. he shows that moment in new hampshire where i thought he really found his voicement i think we all agree as we were watching that speech this was mitt romney at his best. he got the part of the speech that i think will connect republican voters. there also is, and i will use that word that joe klein said is a terrible word we use, but it's

what their pushing, electability. you're not going to get that shot from any of the republican candidates. this is a weak field this year. you don't get big crowds out there. that was the most presidential presentation. >> he definitely invoked electabili electability. >> don't you love this town? >> i do. >> is this not -- is charleston not the greatest town? you know, we go to a lot of different towns. it's not like i would start off an hour by saying doesn't this town suck? but charleston is just a gorgeous, gorgeous town. >> it's beautiful. i'm hoping to do a little shopping later. do you think they'll let me? should i go shopping here? i never shop. >> you can do it. they only take confederate

bills. >> that's good. i'm going to introduce our guests now. david walker is with us. and msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halpern. and national affairs editor for new york magazine and msnbc political analyst john heilman back at the table. >> we sit here and talk about the mistakes that mitt romney has made over the past couple days, i actually -- it's sort of starting to sink in a couple hours later. i don't think the actual issues, the cayman islands. >> there are people coming out saying you pay the same tax wlz you file in the cayman islands or america. i think at the end of the day that's not going to impact him. i'm talking to the republican primary. we republicans have fought for lower capital gains tax rates for decades. i don't think that's going to hurt him. i do think more than anything else, it is this inevitable air around him may be starting to be shattered a bit by one mistake

after another. self-inflicted wounds. because that's what mitt romney has more than anything else. and i will repeat what rick perry said. if we're going to fire you, we got to fire you in february, january and february and not in september when you're up against barack obama. and a lot of people and really powerful conservatives are starting to ask that question now. is this really the safest bet to beat barack obama? >> i think average american republicans will be asking if he won. i'm assuming that the self inflicting wound that you're talking about has to do with his financial holdings and his taxes and his comments on it and the way his campaign let it drip out and happened to get completely nailed by the press at it and looked defensive. >> again, the sloppiness of it. >> it's very sloppy. >> if he had mark halpern jumping in the campaign like rick perry, rick perry came in at the last second. so he had some really bad debate

performances. we can watch rick perry improve now and stha happen now. rick perry can run four years from now and he may do pretty well. because it's always a baptism by fire. bill clinton remember in 1988 gave a horrific speech at the democratic national convention. >> a long speech. >> everybody thought it was the end of his career and he ended up winning. but in this case, what really angers romney supporters, contributors, and national conservative leaders is the fact he's been on the campaign trail for eight years. and, yet, he's making elementary mistakes. his people let him down. he should have released his taxes a year and a half ago. >> the speech money comment. it goes on. he looks uncomfortable. >> taking money from speeches. you know, making investments in off shore accounts, whether there is any tax advantage or

not. these are all sloppy things that people shouldn't do. >> and, yet, if he wins the south carolina primary, you know, it could be over. >> just crossing the wires right now. republican officials say the final count of the iowa caucuses puts rick santorum ahead of mitt romney by 34 votes. no winner will be declared because votes from eight precincts are missing. >> so, mark halpern. it's florida, florida. 2000. mark halpern? >> we need a few chads. >> i just got really tired. >> you do have though, mark, the take way here is mitt romney, the inevitable candidate looks like he's going to lose iowa. so maybe it's not history after all. newt gingrich is moving up on him in south carolina. you have to ask this question. if it ends up and instead of making history he wins the first three states, he only ends up

winning one out of three. suddenly all the people pushing for a brokered convention get together this weekend and they start talking about it. >> maybe. let me say two things about iowa. there are two big what ifs. what if that was result of iowa. santorum would have gotten a better bounce out of the resultsment two, what if santorum said i'm not going to set the results that romney wants. i want a challenge. i want this declared no victor. he didn't. he said it's a tie. that would have changed things. the other thing is romney told donors for months last year i can win this nomination losing iowa, losing south carolina. he may have to prove that he can actually do that. >> john? >> yeah. i think -- you know, i think everything mark says is true and yet the question is romney is an establishment front-runner in the sense that he's almost by default. the establishment has not rallied to mitt romney in a way they rallied to george w. bush or bob dole or even john mccain in some ways in 2008.

they've been uncertain about him. >> why is that? >> i think the question has always been, you know, that he is not -- well, there's a question about how he would perform under fire. and as i said earlier in the show, every republican establishment and donors and those behind him have always wondered, can this guy take a punch? does he have a glass jaw? >> reagan went around campaigning for everybody for years since 19 -- >> has mitt been isolated? >> he has a shorter history of than that. he did a lot of the drj. he gave a lot of money. but his personal affinity with him, i'll go to the mattress norz guy is lower than it's been for a lot of other republican frontrunners. >> joe? >> there is a different base with regard to primaries, especially closed primaries than the general election. independents of which i've won are now 40% of the electorate and climbing. republican and democratic administrations are declining.

the truth is there's not a lot of enthusiasm for the romney campaign even though he may well be the most electability. there is not a lot of enthusiasm for president obama. that's why 2012 is going to be incredibly important year. we need to start focus on issues and solutions rather than personalities. >> yep. and i mean that's what -- why you're here to an extent and why everyone keeps saying mitt romney but. joe, i think iowa story is a big story. santorum was not even considered a player in this. >> if they revive him in south carolina, it will help mitt romney win the nomination. >> i just want to follow up on something david just said. if mitt romney is not the most personable guy in the world, if he's not a warm and fuzzy candidate if, he doesn't know how to reach out, now, to voters, the one way you take care of that gap succumb forward with dramatic policies.

where you get to the point where you say, you know what? he may not be warm and fuzzy. but i like what he's doing. i like what he's doing. i like what he's saying. he's telling the truth about medicare. he's telling the truth about medicaid. he's telling the truth about social security. warren buffett pays a low tax rate and ge pays zero. ask why we were wasting $2 billion a week in afghanistan. you know what, he would connect with voters despite the fact that he seems a little too robotic. >> you're absolutely right. >> the calculation on top of the appearance of being calculated is -- could very well kill mitt romney's candidacy if in the long run he loses. >> people want truth, leadership and solutions. they're starved for it. and not only should romney do that, and the other candidates,

president obama should, too. we should be making decisions based upon how these leaders see the best way to create a better future. to keep america great and the american dream alive. we're not seeing it now. it's critically important. >> let me follow up and then to the polls. really quickly. i know romney has a 59-point plan, economic plan to save the world, to save western civilization. and, yet, i can't tell you what his tax reform plan is. i can't tell you -- can you tell me what it is? >> i can tell you 58.5 of them. but if you look at the polling in south carolina, the reason he's still winning here is because people do associate him with the economy. voters that care about the economy. the smartest thing that gingrich can do is pivot to china, link up the things he is saying with his own economic ideas. romney has not broken through but he has by far on who you trust to deal with the economy.

>> that's because of his business background? >> yes. >> it is interesting. this is -- this becomes a very tricky thing for him. it is what -- mark is right. it's what he's run on so far. i'm the guy that has the past experience that can take on barack obama. but now, because of what's happened over the last week, some of the unforced errors on his part and the arguments made against him by the rivals are turning some of that private sector background into more of a liability for him, conceivably against barack obama going forward. >> i think maybe with independence. i think among republicans, if voters are supporting mitt romney because of his business background, just to be really blunt, a lot of these things that he's done, voters will go, you know what? business is tough. capitalism is can be rough sometimes. i think in the primary this stuff doesn't touch. >> that's why i was saying for the general election, it's a different issue. >> real quickly, the nbc/marist pohl, mitt romney has a ten point lead over newt gingrich.

romney getting 37%. gingrich's perceived performance, our poll shows romney dropping six points here and gingrich jumping four points. the nbc marist poll shows 56% of voters view the former massachusetts governor as an acceptable nominee, 26% say he is acceptable. but they have some reservations. 17% say romney is not acceptable to represent the republican party. now this may have to do with the fact that only 13% of republican voters think romney is truly a conservative. the same poll shows santorum, gingrich and paul in a statistical tie topping the field in south carolina. when it comes to their conservative credentials. how important is that part of the poll, joe? >> this is a conservative party. >> right. >> and a conservative state. that is very important. but i think you see though with

mitt romney unlike say a newt gingrich, i think the overwhelming majority of republicans seem to be saying in this poll he's not a conservative. i'm not comfortable with him. but if he is a general election candidate, i'm going to get behind him. i'm going to work. i'm going to work hard. i think with newt gingrich, just like with ron paul, you have to ceiling. it's probably around 35%, 40%. but if you have mitt bringing in 25%, 30% and newt moving forward bringing in 25%, 30% and ron paul bringing in 10% to 20%, i'm just saying, i keep hearing and maybe it's just -- maybe it's just fantasy land. but i keep hearing among some of the movers and shakers in the party whispers of a brokened convention if only -- and i will tell you, a lot of people are cheering on newt gingrich right now not because they want newt to win the nomination. as somebody said here before, but because they want to gunk it up and see how this thing plays

out. >> we have a story that's going to be developing today for abc news with one of newt gingrich's ex-wives speaking out. it's apparently supposed to be explicit. we'll see. that could change the equation. >> i'm skeptical. >> i am, too. david walker, thank you very much. >> david, great seeing you. and you're going to be in charleston today at some forums? >> yes, with former governor mark sanford, 1:00 at the citadel. 3:00 at the university of charleston. substance and solutions. >> there you go. we love it. >> all right. let's go to willie geist. what's coming up next? >> we're going to get both sides of the conversation in the state of south carolina. the gop chairman here in the state and one of the rising stars, baraki sellers. also tomorrow, you don't want to miss stephen colbert. he'll be with us here. first, we're going to send it to new york city for a check of the forecast. >> good morning you to. south carolina getting ready for the primary on saturday.

just happens to be a storm system moving through. it's not going to be an all day rain. there are periods of rain on and off throughout the upstate of south carolina. a little better down there towards the coast. so we'll keep an eye on that as we head towards saturday. as far as the forecast goes, it is brutally cold this morning in the northern plains. wind chill is still minus 32 in mi minneapolis. all that cold air is pouring across the northern great lakes and into the middle of the country. we have snow on the way. a snowstorm tomorrow, chicago, milwaukee, areas eventually friday night, detroit and cleveland. and then by saturday, i think we're going to have a little mini snowstorm in areas like southern new england and areas around new york city for the first time this winter. today, no issues. just a cold day as advertised. many areas of the country and our friends on the west coast, they're still recovering from the big storm yesterday with a lot of heavy rain during the day to day. you're watching "morning joe." is it fast?

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i fully expect the romney campaign to be on endingly dirty and dishonest. they're desperate. they thought they could buy this and discovering they can't buy this. i think they're now going to have -- i think they have internal polls that show them losingment losing. i think they'll do anything at any level. i need your help. peopler power will buy money power. i need your help to beat romney. >> the speaker today at the debate was talking about how he created millions of jobs when he was working with the reagan administration. he had been in congress two

years when ronald reagan came to office. that's like saying we're all responsible for the jobs. government doesn't create jobs. it's the private sector that creates jobs. congressmen taking responsibility or taking credit for helping create jobs is like al gore taking credit for the internet. okay. it's 22 past the hour. we're in charleston, north carolina and we're open for business. full of people this morning. a lot of folks joining us now. we have south carolina republican party chairman chad connolly. also with us, south carolina state representative bakari sellers. good to have you both. >> look what happened this time? even with the dynamics of this race? >> it will happen again.

this is my story and i'm sticking to it. >> because you're so sure of yourself. >> i thought the tigers would beat west virginia, too. >> west virginia just scored again, by the way. >> there is always this misunderstanding about south carolina. south carolina republicans. people go you go from new hampshire and then swing south. they're so conservative. the politics are so dirty. this is one of the most establishment states. i mean if haley bar bore could create a republican party from scratch, he would create the south carolina republican party because you guys are establishment time and time again. you are the fire wall. >> you know, i really think that the 30-year track record is excellent. we have a pattern now. when you look at it, you think wow, we're a small state. people can crisscross and get around. our media markets are inexpensi inexpensive compared to florida's. we have the best win in the party that is nationwide from social to fiscal. >> you go up south, obviously

you have greenville, spartanburg area. it's bob jones, it's where my wife is from. a lot of ivevangelicals here. you have people like in this audience right now. >> hello there. they have nothing to do. they come to -- >> fiscal conservatives. and then again the military conservatives as well. here we have a representative, a democrat who obviously didn't know the clintons. >> yes. >> you're a south carolina game cock? >> how did you figure that out. >> i think he beats sue by eight years. he was elected at age 22. >> wow. >> i've been in this game for a long time. i think my hair is getting a little grayer. >> hold on. you really need to take -- you can recind that comment right now. i mean we're all, what, 20 years older than him. i'm walking out the door right

now. i'm angry. >> what is, as we move forward in 2012, what's the democratic message two years after republicans enjoyed the biggest electoral landslide in state and national government and modern history? >> i think our president ushered in 22 months of straight job growth. we have a economy that is farrell well throughout the world. we talk about bin laden and gadhafi and now we're excited to see what chad and his colleagues do in south carolina. i'm not so sure the south carolina gop is reflective of the nationwide party. i think the party in the state plays in the fringes. i'm looking forward to all of our presidential nominee who's are republican actually pandering further right and kind of alienating the independent and modern voters. >> is that a fair assess snment. >> of course it's not. >> why you would say that? >> because this is a state that

saved george herbert walker bush. this is a state that saved john mccain. those guys aren't in the fringes, chad. they are main street republicans. >> i'm going to the comment to talk about the south carolina establishment. when we look at our elected officials here, our republican party controls all of our constitutional offices. five out of our six congressional officials -- >> do you think lindsey graham operates on the fringes? >> he is moving further right. he has done wonderful things for the state. >> he can't go any further left, can he? i mean seriously. you never know which way he is going. i have known lindsey since 1994. i still don't know where he goes. >> the policies they put forward have done nothing but hurt us educationally, socially and economically. i think that is -- >> all right, so chad -- >> the state is struggling, chad? >> mark sanford a good friend of mine from congress, mark famously carried two pigs into the state legislature --

>> infamously. >> yeah. basically, talking about how the legislature was spending too much money. he was an outsider. he ended up fairly popular given all of his problems. but then vicki haley comes along and promises she's going to be sort of more establishment, more centered than mark sanford was. wasn't going to provoke the democratic establishment. but she's followed his path. upset even more people. i mean the republicans have trouble dealing even with their own governors here? >> i think there is always going to be family squabbles and back and forth when you have politics. that's the name of the game. it's just like the primary season. we see the bare knuckles brawl going on. i think season is tame. >> are you disappointed with nicky's mistakes? >> no. the governor is doing a great job. she's got job growth going on. we're spending more on education than we ever have. >> but a lot -- as we say of

mitt romney, a lot of unforced errors with nicci haley. >> let's talk about that for a minute. we're talking about a state that has a 9.9% unemployment rate. we're higher than all of our neighbors, georgia, tennessee, north carolina. and we're talking about a state where we have a corridor of shame. kids go to school where the infrastructure is falling apart. windows and roofs don't work. and i'm not quite sure what we're talking about in this educational spending. we had the opportunity to get $144 million from arnie duncan and our federal partners. but nicky haley turned that down. when you go to jasper county, hampton county, barnwood county and see the kids have books from 1984 and you're turning away resources that are our federal tax dollars, that's a travesty. >> willie geist? >> there you go. >> he has bureaucracies that are overbloated and the dollars don't get to the classroom. it's been going on for years. what we see in the counties, they're getting more dollars per child than other counties but they're so misspent by bloated

bureaucracies and administration. 44 cents of the education dollar gets to the class ram. th clak room. >> nicky haley gave a state of the state address and did not mention education one time. and we're talking about dollars getting to the classroom. well, "people" magazine just recently ran a profile on a school in my district where the cafeteria roof literally fell down. that's the cafeteria roof where our little people go to school. it collapsed. but nobody's talking about that. nobody heard about that. and the reason they're not is because that is not a typical -- that's typical. >> a school outside this district that touts themselves as world class athletic facilities and yet the grades continue to fall. we have dollars going in all places. >> what school is that? >> i'll reveal that later on. dollars are misplaced and not getting to the classroom. >> representative this is one of the great frustrations. because we talk about education reform all the time. we started and we went to

crenshaw and new orleans. there's a lot of frustrations. you'll hear people say if only we spent more money. we spend more money per pupil than any country on the planet. there is nobody that's a close be second. now is it not fair to say that we're spending all of this money and it's not getting to the classrooms? it's not getting to the kids. it's not getting to the teachers. >> you guys can agree on that. >> i agree with you. i agree with you. but -- >> by the way sh it's congressman scarborough. >> i agree. >> will you upset your democratic friends by saying that teachers unions have to be a partner instead of creating

teaching jobs and looking at them as a jobs program? >> way don't have unions in south carolina, period. so i don't -- >> i'm speaking nationally. >> we do need to focus on teachers performance, teacher evaluation and paying our teachers competitive salaries to bring the best and brightest to our classrooms. >> it is okay? >> i want to ask you. i'm not expecting you to know this policy. but michael bloomberg said if you're a great teacher and create great students, we're going to give you more money. we're not going to penalize if you the students fail, but if you're great, we're going to pay you more money. the teachers union said, no. do you have a problem with that? >> i think we should pay people who do well. >> good for you. >> that is what we do in our capitalistic society. you do well, you should get paid for doing a good job. if teachers come and they want to go to the high poverty, low income areas, i think we should pay them for being willing to go there and teach kids.

the republican party is literally just due to empty rhetoric locked children out of their future. >> look at chad. can you tell. >> seriously. >> listen, until we have the discussion about why we have 85 school districts in 46 counties, that that's a travesty. >> the most amazing part is that is a great talking point. but if we did have 85 school districts and 46 school districts, under this administration, things wouldn't chachg. >> before we go, chairman, i want to ask you to turn back to the presidential race. i know you don't want to make a prediction. but where is the energy in your party? where is the excitement? is there a particular candidate? we go out and we hear mitt romney is drawing crowds but he doesn't inspire people. >> or does he? >> i've been talking people all over the states. there are big crowds. senator santorum has had big crowds. the speaker has had big crowds. people are all over the state. i think it's a blessing from the

state. we're going to have some $50 million spent. we had record shattering levels of television ads. there are virtually no ad space slots left in south carolina between now and saturday night. these are huge blessings. people are going out and meeting kanld dates all across the state. >> what are you hearing inside? >> there is a lot of energy for speaker begin rich. there is a lot of energy for mitt romney. he's had big crowds and so has senator santorum. >> so basically, you listed every candidate in the field. >> yes. >> there is a lot of energy for the republican party. >> he thooz do has to do it. he's a party chairman. >> i think the opinion is how does the grassroots energy that they plow these fields for months now translate into votes for saturday? that's what i'm interested in looging at. polls are a good look at yesterday. i don't think we get a good poll until after today. >> representative, so when are we going to come back and call you senator? >> oh, goodness. >> when you're 24?

>> 27. i'm living one day at a time. i'm trying to enjoy life. >> well, we love having you here. >> good to see you again. we hope to see you soon. >> chad, thank you. >> good luck, mr. chairman. >> chad connolly. >> thank you for having me. >> and a reminder for all you folks here in south carolina. today joe and i will be taking part in a town hall discussion at the rivera theater here in charleston. that should be fun. >> by the way, for the idiots on twitter, that was a barbara boxer joke. i don't let anybody call me an idiot. >> we're going to be busy. we're going to be at the town hall. you have a speech. my gosh, it's unbelievable. keeps doing. the doors open at noon. we'll see you then. this is an rc robotic claw.

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back in 1995, your ex-wife said she could derail your campaign with one tv interview. tonight she is giving that interview. is there anything she can say, newt gingrich that, koend your campaign? >> i'm not going to say anything

negative about marianne. my two daughters, kathy and jackie, have sent a letter to the president of abc news saying from a family perspective, they think this is totally wrong. they think abc should not air anything like this. and that intruding into family things that are a decade -- more than a decade old are simply wrong. >> that's newt gingrich just a few minutes ago talking to ann curry on the "today" show, taking the high road for now saying he won't say anything negative about his second wife marianne who set to do an interview tonight with abc. it will air tonight. i'm joined by a couple of voters thinking about newt gingrich, janice and jim. both from here in charleston. where are you right now on newt? >> i'm undecided about newt. i'm not in favor of his three marriages. but i do think he'll be a wonderful strong opponent against obama. >> and who else are you thinking about? >> rick santorum. >> and what will the last two days here go through your mind as you make the decision?

what will it come down to? >> probably that balance between obama's opponent being strong and what he does and does well. which is debate and ear thiothe things. rick santorum is a good christian man with a moral come pass and economic values. i really respect him. but most important thing to me about rick is he's so personable. i think we're ready for someone who can connect with the american public. >> jim, you're all in for newt. >> i'm 100% behind speaker gingrich. to me, the most important thing is that we need to get things changed in the united states. speaker gingrich understands other than washington, d.c., for 10 years, just as obama has needed four years to figure out how the system works, romney will be in the same boat. he will be clueless. he wouldn't know how the system worked. he would be ineffective. speaker gingrich would be very, very effective as he was as speaker of the house.

that's why i'm 100% behind gingrich. >> mitt romney would have a better chance in the general election against president obama than would newt gingrich. do you buy that? >> no, i don't. i don't. i think gingrich has the ability to debate obama one-on-one, head-to-head on all the issues and will be successful and persuasive. i think he would be the one that will be far more effective. i think romney proven himself in the debates that he doesn't have the ability to attack, to go deep on different issues that need to be addressed to beat obama. i really believe that speaker gingrich can do that. i think he has a far better chance to win the election as well. >> he has to start by winning in south carolina here tonight. jim for newt, janice, still undecided.

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does anyone understand how this internet stuff works? >> i'm not a nerd. >> i am not a nerd. >> i'm just not enough of a nerd. >> maybe we ought to ask some in other words what this thing really z let's have a harry bring in the in other words. >> really? nerds? i think the word you're looking for is experts. two enlighten you so your laws don't backfire and break the internet. by the way, when did congress turn into oger? >> that is great. this brings us to our first

paper at 45 past the hour here in charleston, south carolina. usa today says yesterday's web blackout is delivering results. several key lawmakers withdrew support for anti-parycy legislation after a 24 hour blackout by thousands of web sites. senator lindsey gram who co-sponsored the legislation now says he's open to rerunning. really? >> it's fascinating how important this bill is for people online. eric ericsson yesterday said as much as it distressed him, he was going to work against the re-election of marco rubio and marcia blackburn, two conservatives. they back down now. >> i don't think it was the web blackout. i think it was the threat of the primary that caused them to back out. >> from our parade of papers, the charleston post shows one of the few surviving tuskegee

airmen who live in south carolina. the legendary world war ii fighter pilots are portrayed in the new john ridly movie. it is opening this weekend. >> it's a great story. >> isn't that great? our great friend john ridly -- >> john ridly got together with george lucas and spent $50 million of his own money because this movie was so important to him. >> this is a really great important movie. >> looks great. >> new yo"new york daily news" chris christie has jinxed the giants by insisting big blue hold the super bowl celebration in the garden state where the team practices and plays. of course, the giants are not yet into the super bowl. they first have o get through the 49ers. in fairness, he was asked if they win the super bowl, where should you have the parade? he said in new jersey. >> big news yesterday. the governor said -- he's not going to comment on this whole vice-presidential thing. but didn't you love if they would run the mets? he lit up. he said woib a genius.

>> he said i don't want to be vice president, but i will leave the state house today if they make me the gm. >> what is the dweel this new jersey governor trying to glam every new york sports team. it's not the new jersey mets. >> they play in new jersey. >> i understand that but they're the new york giants and new york mets. right? >> it is only and the helmet, brooklyn hipster. they are a jersey giants and the jersey jets. >> yeah, okay. >> really? >> they play in his state. >> speaking of jersey, a man that is long called mr. jers ji wi jersey with is us with right now. he has new numbers on jobless claims. >> how are they? >> i can't even get on page 20 in the post. jobless claims found 52,000 lowest levels since 2008. great news. the s&p 500 closed the highest level since july.

it's up again. bank of america, morgan stanley, better than expected results. the thing that joe talked to you about is apple. it's now worth more than $400 billion. they're making end roads into school textbooks and general electric says they're going to do a pilot program on computers. they have 330,000 competers if they get 5%, they'll have huge growth. this company says steve jobs is justining to crank it. on the flip side, kodak filed for bankruptcy, chapter 11 bankruptcy. the irony here is they didn't respond to technology. they missed the boat on digital cameras except the strange thing is they actually invented the digitsal camera. they just didn't think it was that big of a deal. >> you know, mark halpern, we're the oldest guys on the set. we remember when kodak was king. this is one of the great american success stories for a century. and there seems to be a lesson there. you can't keep the genie in the bottle. they invented the digital camera

but they refused to put it out because they thought it would hurt film sales. >> i think more will reinvent themselves. >> no doubt about it. amazing jobless numbers. lowest since april 2008. six months before the crash. i don't care how you spin it, that's great news. >> yeah. it is. thank you, brian. we'll be right back. i've worked hard to build my family.

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america is in crisis and stephen colberts is turning our country into a circus. he is exploring a run for president of the united states of america in south carolina. come on, why is the t in his name silent? what else is he silent about, letting murderers out of jail? now a superpac he founded is running an attack ad just so we think they're not coordinating. enough is enough! i've had it with these money grabbing superpacs messing with our monday to friday election! south carolina, send stephen colbert a message.

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nice to meet you. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is so good to be here. really this is exciting! this is history. we love charleston. >> yes. >> let's talk about what we learned today. what did you learn? >> i learned that he is here on business and his wife is calling. you're in big trouble. >> okay. >> man, after a brutal, brutal few weeks of iowa and new hampshire, it is awesome to be in charleston. >> charleston, baby. >> let me say for the record, i love iowa and i love new hampshire and i love south carolina. i love florida. all right. i'm doing my little howard dean. >> i just learned this morning that travel & leisure named charleston not just the friendlyest city in the united