it showed he was awake to the problem, was flexible and humble enough to demand a fix and that, as he said, he gets better at this job all the time. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. those of you in the washington area, this weekend, by the way, i'll be hosting a book signing at blessed sacrament church off chevy chase circle in washington sunday morning at 11:30 to talk about my new book that has the whole story on jfk. stop by if you can. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politics nation. it's i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead -- the president strikes a balance and republicans strike a pose. today, president obama announced a plan for birth control coverage that should end the controversy that's dominated thç news these last few days. >> religious liberty will be protected, and a law that requires free preventive care will not discriminate against

women. and we live in a pluralistic society where we're not going to agree on every single issue or share every belief. that doesn't mean that we have to choose between individual liberty and basic fairness for all americans. >> basic fairness. religion and rights. not either/or. that's what this plan insures. under it, women are guaranteed birth control at no out-of-pocket cost. yet religious groups will not be forced to offer contraceptives. instead, insurance companies will step in to offer the coverage. groups like planned parenthood are applauding the decision. and so are key catholic groups who were opposed to the old policy. carol key han, head of the catholic health association says, quote, she's pleased and grateful with the new outcome. catholic charities welcomes the move. even the conference of catholic

bishops, one of the fiercest critics, says this is at least a step in the right direction. because at the end of the day women's health shouldn't be used for political gain. >> i understand some folks in washington may want to treat this as another political wedge issue. but it shouldn't be. i certainly never saw it that way. >> tell that to the republicans. today, they've called it a ç disingenuous gimmick. quote, not a compromise. and senator marco rubio went so far as to say, this shows why we must fully repeal obama care. they've made this a wedge issue all right. in fact, rubio sponsored a bill that would allow any employer to deny women birth control anywhere in the country as long as they claim it's for religious reasons. how is that for compromise?

joining me now is e.j. dionne, columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor. thanks for coming on the show tonight. >> good to be with you. >> e.j., you were critical of the president's initial decision but you write today, obama's move is a welcome step away from a religious battle that neither he nor the country needed. it's an important first step. e.j. is this plan what most catholics in the country wanted to hear? >> i never claimed to speak for most catholics given how complicated the church is, but i think an awful lot of the people who were critical of the president at the beginning are satisfied and happy that he acknowledged that there was a religious liberty issue here. i think what liberal catholics like me were concerned about is if you looked at the original rule, the only people who were defined as religious organizations were essentially churches and synagogues and

mosques. yet when you look at organizations like catholic charities, like the catholic hospitals, like the inner city schools, people are doing this work because they see it as a religious mission. this wasç inherently part of their work. now there are a lot of people who were critical of the president, were not opposed to expanding contraception coverage, but they thought there was a legitimate religious liberty right here that the catholic church, which has a position opposed to -- you know, its own moral position opposed to contraception, shouldn't have to pay for it. >> but at the same time, don't we have to be concerned about non-catholics or nonreligious people employed that also should have rights and would this -- what the president laid out protects the rights of catholics or religious people and protects the workers because there's not just one side of this that has to have rights protected. everyone's rights should be protected. >> in fact in that column, you kindly quoted this is the compromise that i was for from

the beginning. this idea was first floated by my friend melissa rogers whom i've done a lot of work with over the years on church/state issues. she called it a win-win way back in october. and the question i am curious if we find an answer to is why the administration didn't go here right from the start. because i think if they had started here, we wouldn't have had these two weeks of controversy. but having said that, i'm really glad this is where the president ended up because i think it's the right place to be. >> there is some political risk in dealing with this. in 2008, the president won the majority of the catholic vote, and i think it was 54% of the total catholic vote. so you said that you are glad he ended up here, but let me tell no here. rush limbaugh says that this isn't a concession by the obama administration. rather, it's trampling on the constitution.

listen. well, let me make sure they catch up with me in new york, but i want you to hear him say -- while we're waiting on the sound, how is this trampling on the constitution to protect everybody's rights on both sides, e.j.? >> i guess this won't be the first time in my life i disagree with rush limbaugh, whatever he actually said on this. i mean, there are -- first of all, there are conservatives who would oppose obama no matter what he did. we know that. there are some conservatives who are against providing contraception on a broad basis. that's not where most americans are. and there are conservatives who will say -- make any argument they can to try to get the health care law repealed. i'm not one of those people. so i'm not surprised. what did -- i think what was really significant is archbishop dolan who was initially very angry about the first decision,

and i think he was angry for some good reasons because i think the president had given him some reassurance and then it didn't work out the way the president had said it would. the fact he said this was an important first step ithought that was a very positive statement on his part. and i think it reflects the fact that within the catholic community, there are a number of views, including, among the bishops, some still want a harder line. they want an exemption. i'm sorry? >> let me pick up on that. let me press you a little bit on that. let me show youç dolan's statement. this is archbishop cardinal designate dolan. or he's cardinal dolan. he says this is a first step in the right direction. we hope to work with the administration to guarantee that americans' consciences and our religious freedom are not harmed by these regulations. but then let me show you what one of the presidential candidates. i didn't have rush ready, but let me show you what newton leroy gingrich said.

>> i frankly don't care what deal he tries to cut. this is a man who is deeply committed if he wins re-election, he will wage war on the catholic church the morning after he's re-elected. we cannot trust him. we know who he really is. and we should make sure the country knows who he really is. >> so what i'm showing here is even when you have the leaders of the church saying it's a step in the right direction. let's wait and see what the details are, they are still politicizing this and saying things as if they are speaking for the church. the church is not even saying that. doesn't matter to these people in the republican race. >> it's really hard to keep track because the president has gone from being a muslim to being a secular atheist so i don't know -- we don't know what they are going to say next. and, obviously, they wanted to turn this into a big political issue to say the president is hostile to religion. and one of the reasons i was disappointed the first time around is president obama,

before he was president in a great speech he gave to -- at jim wallace's conference in 2006, his speech at notre dame, he has shown great sensitivity to catholics in particularç wh as he pointed out today, paid his salary as a community organizer but to religious sensibilities generally. i think this is a very hard case to make. he walked into this criticism by, i think, making the mistake the first time around. i think what he did today is far truer to who he's been ever since we've seen him in public life. and i think it's a more natural place for him to be, and i think they are going to have a really hard time sustaining this argument that president obama is anti-religious. >> well, we're going to talk about that in our next segment, and i'm with it as long as they sustain people's rights, not just one side of it. the constitution is for everybody. not just those of us that are religious or political leaders. e.j. dionne, thanks, as always,

for your time. have a great weekend. >> you, too. coming up -- with the economy getting better, republicans are going back to the old culture wars play book pinning all their hopes on issues that divide us, not unite us. and mitt romney's main problem isn't with conservatives. it's with himself. >> i know conservatism because i have lived conservatism. >> i'm someone who is moderate and my views are progressive. >> a new poll shows he's starting to fall behind. way behind the president. plus -- a ten-year investigation into a man imprisoned for a murder he may not have committed. powerful original reporting from nbc's luke russert. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc.ç so uh this is my friend frank and his, uh, retirement plan.

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they've got nothing to run on, so it's back to the culture wars. and it's ugly. they are talking about the president waging war on the church and executing religious people by decapitation. i've got something to say on this, next. [ thinking ] i wonder what other questionable choices i've made? [ '80s dance music plays ] [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego.

welcome back. we're live in los angeles tonight. folks, there's something behind this huge debate over contraception. the right wing is getting desperate. so it's back to the tired old play book most americans rejected years ago.

the culture wars are front and center today. >> i will fight for an amendment to our constitution that defines marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman. >> it's about freedom of religion. mirchlths presidency will be a pro-life presidency. >> he's now telling the catholic church that they are forced to pay for things that are against their basic tenets and teachings. >> i'll ensure that organizations like planned parenthood get no more federal support. >> abortion, gay marriage, planned parenthood. there's no mystery about what's going on here. the economy is picking up. 23 straight months of job creation. 3.7 million jobs. the president's poll numbers climbing steadily, up 7 points since the fall. the gop is in a corner, and they are getting desperate. resorting to anç ugly form of politics that's outdated and outrageous.

bob shrum is a democratic strategist and professor at nyu. bob, 28 states already have laws on the book requiring that health insurance covers contraception. how in the world do we get to this point where republicans are trying to use the issue to demonize the president? >> they'll use any issue to demonize the president. your right that the economy if it continues to improve in the way it has is going to leave someone like mitt romney nothing say. his candidacy is a one trick pony. he wants to say, look. i was a ceo. i know how to fix the economy. well if the economy is being fixed, and i think it is, and there are a lot of strong signs out there then what is he going to do? secondly, in pursuit of the republican nomination, this party is much more conservative, much more radical than it was a few years ago. and there's tremendous pressure to talk about these social issues and to cater to the far right on these social issues. >> let me show where you're right. look at this.

in 2011, just 2011, 92 measures enacted in 24 states on abortion restrictions. it shatters the previous record of 34 adopted in 2005. previous years weren't even close. then you have 24 states that adopted abortion restrictions in 2011. now you have also eight states that tried to defund planned parenthood in 2011. so it's clear that last year, as you say, into this year, they are really ramping up this whole culture wars, let'sç deal with these divisive issues rather than to really deal with the issues of the economy and other things that clearly has not worked for them. >> look. this nominating process has pushed them to the right. these folks all got elected in 2010. they said they were going to focus on jobs. they got elected as a protest vote, really. and the first thing they did was try to pass all these

restrictions on abortion. try to attack gay people. and now try to attack birth control. you know, this whole controversy that you and e.j. were talking about i think is going to in the end help the president because you have all these 60-year-old republican guys running around sounding like they are campaigning against birth control. and you know what that's going to do in suburban women, outside places like philadelphia, los angeles, all these places, detroit, chicago, those women, and they need to appeal to them to have any chance to win this election, are going to flee the republican party in droves. it's an anti-woman party right now. it's an anti-gay rights party. i would argue that it's an anti-individual rights party. >> well, i think, let me show you something that may appeal to them. rick santorum said that such extreme stuff today. if you think they were thinking about leaving before, let them see this. he's talking about the guillotine.

watch this sound bite. this is rick santorum, the new person with momentum in the republican primary. this is what he said earlier this week. >> when you marginalizeç faithn america, when you remove the pillar of god-given rights, then what's left is the french revolution. what's left in france became the guillotine. >> so we're talking about women having the right to contraception and you have a leading candidate talking about the guillotine? and if that's not enough, willard mitt romney pouncing on the contraception, even though the law in massachusetts where he was governor was basically the same. i mean, it seems to me to be no limit to what they'd do. let me let you hear willard for

himself so they won't say i misquoted him. >> this president is attacking religion and is putting in place a secular agenda that our forefounders would not recognize. >> there's no question this is a continuation of the barack obama administration's attack on religion. this kind of assault on religion will end if i'm president of the united states. >> now, bob, won't this, as you said about contraception, won't this potentially backfire on them when you have 74% of women saying abortion should be available, 70% saying illegal immigrants already in the u.s. should be able to stay, 51% saying same-sex marriage should be legal. i mean, aren't they really reading the public wrong? >> yeah, i think they are. and, look. this week, mitt romney couldn't beat rick santorum so he's obviously decided to channel him. if you listen to those clips, you listen to him at cpac çtod, here's a guy who said he was a moderate, who said he was pro-choice who said he was

pro-gpro pro-gay rights, approved a policy on contraception much tougher than what the president offered today. this guy stands up and says he's severely conservative. doesn't he think he have any tape? doesn't he think people are going to see that he's two-faced, that he continually changes his most -- his views on the most fundamental issues in front of this society? he's got a business plan. he wants to be the republican nominee. he'll give the market whatever they ask for. and in the process, he's demonstrating that he doesn't really have the character to lead this country. >> bob shrum, thank you for your time. >> thank you. and drum roll, please. the award for the best performance as a conservative goes to willard romney at cpac today. [ coughs ]

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you know you're in trouble when your political views become a punch line. and mitt romney saw that today. he was at the cpac conference trying to win over conservatives. but before his big speech, millionaire foster friess uncorked this joke. >> there's a little bar a couple of doors down. recently a conservative,ç a liberal and a moderate walked into the bar. the bartender says, hi, mitt.

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like a ramen noodle- every-night budget. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate. welcome back to "politics nation." mitt romney wants republicans to know something. he's a conservative. really? he just couldn't stop telling people he's a conservative at the cpac conference today. >> i know conservatism because i have lived conservatism. i was a severely conservative republican governor. we conservatives believe in freedom. >> as conservatives, we're united by a set of core convictions. this must be our greatest hour as conservatives. i understand that the battles we as conservatives must fight.

all told, romney said the word conservative 24 times in his speech at cpac today. he's desperate to seize those right wing credentials. but i seem to remember willard singing a different tune once upon a time. >> i think people recognize that i'm not a partisan republican. that i'm someone who is moderate and that my views are progressive. >> i'm a moderate? my views are progressive? it's the kind of record that has romney in trouble. it's why there's so much doubt among conservatives like tony perkins, head of the far right family research council. >> he thought he was going to be coming here and, you know, getting them to sign on the dotted line for joining his campaign. instead, he's back here having to make his case as to why he should be the candidate. >> governor romney gets the support of conservatives in the party if he does what ç specifically? >> well, actually, i don't know that he's going to be able to do

that at this point. >> joining me now, msnbc analyst richard wolffe. he's the author of "revival, the struggle for survival inside the obama white house." and erin mcpike from real clear politics. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> richard, romney has flip-flopped on some basic conservative issues like abortion, immigration, health care, gun control. is there any way he can become a credible candidate for conservatives? >> well, what he's got to start doing is outlining a conservative vision. not just tearing down the conservative credentials of other people by saying they are washington insiders, which is what he did against newt gingrich. what he's trying to do with rick santorum. he can't just talk about his record. he's got to present something that will convince people this is going to be his agenda. a conservative agend aclearly if that's what he's going for. in terms of what he'd do as president. and the problem here is that

he's trying to outflank rick santorum as a conservative. that's extremely difficult. and he's got all this baggage with him. the more he says the word conservative, the more you hear that tape you played about him saying he's a moderate and a progressive. >> erin, you were at the cpac conference. you heard santorum and willard romney today as they are both trying to battle on who is going to face president obama. and i have some interesting polls on that. but the problem, erin, before you tell me how they were received today, the problem is you heard willard romney 2012.ç the problem is, the old willard romney that everyone is going to hear as this race keeps going. let me show you the difference between willard today and willard talking about the same issues in the past. willard's debate is with willard. >> my presidency will be a pro-life presidency. >> i believe that abortion

should be safe and legal in this country. i believe that since roe v. wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it. >> i will eliminate obama care. >> i like mandates. the mandates work. >> conservative constance have shaped my life. >> i was an independent during the time of reagan bush. i'm not trying to return to reagan bush. >> so who won the debate between willard and willard, erin? >> well, i want to go back to one of the clips you played at the very beginning, which is when he said i was a severely conservative republican governor. severely is not really a positive term, but that strikes the image of john kasich in ohio and rick scott in florida. two, i guess, severely conservative republican governors whose numbers are really in the tank at this moment. and if he's trying to identify with governors like that and calling himself severely conservative, the democrats are

ready to pounce. in fact, democratic officials today were jumping all over that comment and they plan to use that in ads in the general election if romney is the nominee. along with some of those comments that you just played that showed that mitt romney is all over the map. that he doesn't have a core.ç that he doesn't have conviction. we're going to hear that a lot. >> well, he's severely desperate. let me show you, richard, some polls. fox news. no liberal station. and their last poll has president obama up and romney down. 41%/28% on who they'd rather see elected. then you have the rasmussen poll has the president up ten points. he's gone from up to down to where he's up ten points. so even the polls that are considered right leaning has president obama decisively ahead

of willard mitt romney. >> yeah, and remember it was only a few days ago that the romney campaign was questioning "the washington post" poll that suggested that the president had a head-to-head advantage over romney. they said that the questions were asked in a strange way. maybe they made strange noises when they asked them. but whatever it was, those numbers could not be real. here you have rasmussen which is traditionally skewed more republican because of the makeup of the voters that they sample. and here there's a real impact that we've seen just over the last few days as rick santorum has reignited the insurgent field within the republican party and raised those doubts about whether romney is viable or not. once you take away inevitablity from someone who keeps saying i'm the inevitable candidate, then you haven't got a thrott go for. that's why the vision thing is so lacking. today, romney came out with a bunch of patriotic platitudes. they are nice sounding.ç they sound great. he can sing "america the beautiful" but it doesn't

replace an agenda and doesn't convince conservatives either. >> you take away inevitablity in terms of you can -- you are the one that can win. you take away the economy. what did he do today, and how was he received? it seems like the two legs of his campaign are gone. >> well, he was actually received very well. and the reason for that is the romney campaign has done a very good job of putting their supporters in rooms where they want to have a big crowd reaction. so that's not really a true measure of how the conservatives here really received him. but, you know, what he did today in his speech was go through his life, you know, a little bit about his religion, his family and his record as governor and being a conservative businessman to say that he's lived his life as a conservative. but really that's trying to make the sale again to conservatives about him, rather than trying to drum up the conservative movement which is what rick santorum was doing today. but let me say something else,

al. today we had this big fight from the administration and republicans over whether this contraception issue was a women's health issue or religious liberty. mitt romney had an opportunity to run with that and make a more sweeping statement about religious liberty, and he really avoided that topic entirely. >> now richard, erin referred to rick santorum who was also, i understand, received very well. let me show you how he went after willard today in front of that same audience, that same conference. >> sure. >> whoç has supported in fact e stepchild of obama care, the person in massachusetts who built the largest government-run health care system in the united states. he's someone that bought into man-made global warming and imposed the first carbon cap in a state of massachusetts. the first state to do so in the country. we're not going to win with

money. we're going to win with contrasts. >> that's pretty strong stuff, richard. >> yep. well, look. romney's argument on health care is that it was right for massachusetts but not right for the whole country. if you go at him on the conservative principle that there are -- that there was no justification for his approach to health care, you're going to please this crowd a lot more and that's why santorum is coming across much stronger. also reveals the weakness of the romney strategy which is, assume you've won the nomination and just go straight after the president. that may unite republicans. it papers over all the differences they have. but you've got to win the nomination before you get to that stage. and rick santorum will be a tough contestant moving forward for him. >> richard wolffe and erin mcpike, thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. up next -- how willard's new buddy, virginia's bob mcdonald, is using one party rule to

advance a radical republican agenda in a critical swing state. plus -- a story you have to see. a mother's fight to correct what could be a gross miscarriage of justice. >> this whole thingç has been very painful experience for me. my son is not a murderer. he is not. >> you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. ♪ spread a little something to remember ♪ ♪ ♪ spread a little joy... [ female announcer ] fresh milk and real cream. that's what makes philadelphia. ♪ so spread a little... [ female announcer ] and that's what makes the moment we enjoy it, a little richer. ♪ real belgian chocolate whipped with philadelphia cream cheese. new indulgence. the moment just got a little sweeter.

still ahead -- a democratic lawmaker who found a unique way to call out republicans for their assault on women's rights. we'll talk to her next. [ female announcer ] feeling that flu all over your body? immerse yourself in all over relief

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welcome back to the show. it was a busy day for willard. we told you how he made a big speech at cpac. he started his day across the river stumping in virginia and he was sharing the stage with his good friend and supporter, governor mcdonald. >> thank you to the governor for bringing me up to date as what's going on in virginia. if i knew how tough it was to compete against virginia, i would probably have given up long ago. >> but these guys have a history. just last month, mcdonald endorsed him, and romney said mcdonnell would be on any candidate's short list for vice president. willard may want to pay a little

attention to what's going on in bob mcdonnell's virginia because it's gone wild. this year, for only the second time since the civil war, republicans have control of everything. the statehouse, stateç senate d governor. all kinds of extreme bills are hitting or close to hitting mcdonnell's desk. one that allows adoption agencies to discriminate against gay couples. one requiring doctors to perform ultra sounds on women seeking abortions. another to repeal a law saying you can't buy more than one gun per month. and a voter i.d. bill has passed and is waiting for mcdonnell's signature. romney may want to think twice before hitching his wagon to such an extreme agenda. joining me now is a lawmaker right in the thick of this extreme agenda, janet howell, democratic state senator from

fairfax, virginia. state senator howell, thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you so much for having me. >> now one of the reasons i'm very interested in virginia is when we hear a lot about wisconsin and ohio and indiana, but virginia has an even more extreme thing that's going on there with the total right wing control, and it's a key swing state for president obama and the elections this year. why do you think republicans are pushing such extreme laws in your state given the importance nationally of this state? >> you know, virginia has always been a moderate pro-business state. and for the last several years, the democrats in the senate have been able to stop the right wing agenda. but unfortunately less than a month ago, they did a power grab and took over the state çsenat even though the voters had put 20 democrats and 20 republicans.

but they used a questionable tactic and took control of all the committees and the whole agenda. so now everything that had been stopped in the past several years is going forward and it is a steamroller, reverend. >> now the thing that also enhances the possibility of this steamroll and how it also plays out in national politics is they just passed this voter i.d. law that's sitting on mcdonnell's desk. and according to information that i have it will have a huge impact in virginia. estimates that more than 600,000 virginia voters may not have photo i.d. that is more than twice the amount of people that president obama won the state by last time. he only won in 2008 by 235,000 votes. 600,000 people may not be able

to vote if mcdonnell signs that bill. you know we're having a national march on this next month. this can even tip the scales even more toward your concerns. >> we're very worried. there's so much voter suppression legislation that's -- it's passing. all of it is passing both the house and the senate. what's really ironic with what's happening is it's going to be harder to vote in virginia than it is now to buy a gun with what they are doing on gun control issues. >> why is that?ç >> 20 years ago we had the first african-american governor, doug wilder. and he discovered that virginia was the gun-running state. people were buying guns in virginia and taking them to new york city and boston. so what governor wilder did, he said you can only buy one gun, one handgun a month.

that seems sufficient to me. and so for almost 20 years, that's been the rule. but last week, it's getting overturned, and governor mcdonnell is going to sign it. so you can come to virginia and buy as many guns as you want. >> wow. and we also see that 55% of virginians agree gay couples should be able to legally adopt. they have a bill to stop that. and mcdonnell will probably sign that. >> that passed yesterday. it will be legal to discriminate in virginia even though you are getting state money. >> state senator howell, thanks for your time tonight. and we'll be out there fighting with you. have a great weekend. >> thank you, reverend. up next -- was an innocent man convicted of a murder he didn't commit? it's a powerful story brought to national attention by nbc's luke russert.

we'll talk with luke and the man's mother next. wake up! that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8.

we talk a lot about justice on this show. and it's an issue nbc's "date line" is tackling this sunday. for ten years, "dateline" producer dan sleplian has been investigating!dhe case of a man in jail maybe for a crime he did not commit. the documentary called "conviction" tells the story of jon-adrian velazquez who has been behind bars for 15 years. he was convicted of murder in the death of a retired police officer during a botched robbery in new york city. but he has always maintained his innocence. >> you say you had nothing to do with the crime. you were nowhere close to the scene.

why is it that you were picked out? >> that's probably the best question in the world because i don't know the answer. >> we don't know exactly what happened the night of the murder, but "dateline" raises important questions about the case. joining me now is luke russert, nbc's "dateline" correspondent and nbc congressional correspondent. luke, great to have you with us. >> thanks for having me, reverend al. i appreciate it. >> what was it about this case and this story that drew you in? >> i was first approached about this story when i was a rookie reporting just starting out at nbc. and dan sleplian the producer said, look. i have some letters from this guy in prison. everyone in prison says they're innocent but you should look at these guy's letters. he wrote with such fervor. the fervor you'd see and emotion you'd see in a pulpit on sunday. when i had my first meeting with him, he just came across as somebody who was not only trying

to dispel a wrong he felt was against him, but instead of just talking about it he really took action. >> that's what i'm interested in, luke, because i have been -- i've gone to jail for civilç rights stuff over night and everybody there says they're innocent. what did he say? what happened that was so compelling to you? >> there's two -- there's two things. number one is the reason he's been in jail for the last 14 years is because of eyewitness identification. he is -- his blood, his fingerprints, his dna, his hair has never been found at the crime scene. there is no physical evidence that links him to this crime. he is solely there because the eyewitness testimony of four individuals who were either using drugs or dealing drugs. a few of whom if you watch our piece on sunday night have a different opinion of what exactly occurred that evening in harlem back in 1998. the other thing about jon-adrian velazquez is he challenged us at

"dateline" to prove him guilty. and that was something that we had a great -- a real difficulty being able to accomplish. >> now let me ask you, how difficult is it to overturn a conviction that is based purely on eyewitness testimony? no forensic evidence, no -- nothing else. how difficult is it to overturn that? >> it's extremely difficult because eyewitness testimony is still used in this country as something that is a viable option for convicting somebody. in the state of new york, as of right now, a tloelot of the app mr. velazquez has put forward have been denied. they now have his case in their possession. but he is someone, just to go back to him as a person because i think that's very importantç here. he's someone who said all along he would not ever take a plea or cop a deal here like many other folks do to avoid time.

if there is some tape, i'd tlof play what he said about that. >> all right. go ahead. >> actions speak louder than words. and what i would say to anybody who doesn't believe me right now, go out there and prove that i did it. >> from the beginning, velazquez knew we weren't making any promises. >> you aren't lying to us in any way? we're going to go back through this and pour over this stuff. there's no lies in there? nothing that will -- >> it's a waste of my time and your time. >> i actually asked him. i said, look. if i came to you right now and said if you sign this piece of paper that said you did it and you are out within five years, you can see your two boys, would you do it? andly looked at me and said, no, i will die here in prison before i'll ever admit i'm a murd ermu. >> luke russert, thanks so much. and we'll be watching sunday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on nbc. joining me now is maria

velazqu velazquez, jon-adrian's mother. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me, reverend al sharpton. >> now you are more than just his mother. you are your son's alibi in this case. how do you know he didn't commit the crime? >> okay. at the time they say he was committing this crime, shortly before the crime was to be committed, he was on the telephone with me and we were discussing his father's death. his father had just died the april before, and the next day would have been his birthday. and weç were discussing, you know, how he was feeling about, you know, the fact that his father had died. we were talking about going to the cemetery. he was in school at the time and he didn't go to school that day because he was upset about, you know, the anniversary, the birthday. so -- and i was home and i was kind of feeling, you know, sad for him as well. he's my only child. so i was very concerned about, you know, how he was feeling. you know, that his father had

died. >> now he willingly turned himself in? you talk about his father dying and you were talking to him around this time and then when this allegation came up, he turned himself in himself. why was that? >> okay. when i found out that they were looking for him, i called him and he was home sleeping. and i said to him, this is what's going on. you know, do you know what happened or anything? and he said i don't know what you're talking about. so i said, listen. i think that i should come and, you know, we should get together and go over, you know, what's going on here and see what we can do about what's happening because his stepmother carmen had called me and she said, you know, the police came here banging away at the door looking for him. and i think they're going to come to your house. so i headed out to the bronx and i picked him up. when i got there, he wasn't even dressed. he was still in his -- >> so he wasn't running from

this. he was ready to deal with it? >> no, not at all. when i got to his home i said did you realize the police are looking for you? he was in his underwear. i said we need to leave here @íd go home to my home and let's talk about, you know, what you possibly -- where were you? did anything happen where you were? you know, that could have -- >> let me ask you this because i'm going to run out of time. do you want the d.a. to reopen the case? >> yes, i do. my son is innocent. >> do you think that he will be free? do you think you will get what you desire in this case? >> yes, i feel it very strongly because he is innocent. they never had any evidence. and justice has to prevail. >> maria velazquez, i thank you for your time tonight. we'll be watching on sunday night. and you all can watch the "dateline" special "conviction" this sunday, 7:00 p.m. eastern, 6:00 central on nbc.