disciplined, everyone that believes in themselves will have the same shot at the american dream, not just those at the top but those all the way through the american fabric. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. what a pill. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, woman trouble. the republican party is getting itself in deeper and deeper and trouble with female voters. instead of focusing on their strong suit, the economy and fiscal responsibility, something has got them talking about birth control. birth control. a topic that hasn't been on the national debate agenda since your grandmother's day. look who is doing the talking. guys.

guys talking with other guys about having babies or not having babies. news flash. men don't have babies. it's the worst since terri schiavo and it's driving away voters, especially women voters. plus rick santorum's surge is serious enough that the obama campaign is thinking of taking him on. team obama doesn't want to elevate santorum, but they are getting a head start on opposition research to portray him as a conservative fringe figure out of touch with most americans. plus motown or no town? mitt romney is having a world of trouble explaining to michigan voters headlines like this one. "let detroit go bankrupt." now he's making it worse by trying to out-right wing santorum by bashing unions. is this any way to win a michigan primary? what happens in november if either guy wins? and the tea party troubles are out there. the big winners of 2010 have sprung a leak. are they a governing party or a permanent protest party?

that's our question tonight. finally, let me finish with a word about a friend of this show and a colleague of mine for years. pat buchanan. we begin with the fight over birth control and how republican men may be reaching for trouble. especially woman trouble. michael steele was chairman of the republican party and joan walsh is editor of salon. both are msnbc political analysts. i see the smile on my colleague's face. although she's wearing green a month ahead of time, which is appropriate for my friend joan, here's your chance. speak loudly and clearly about what the republicans are doing to the potential of getting even a little bit of women's support in the next election. >> they are decimating their chances. this has been one of the best things they could do for president obama. you know, the democrats lost certain groups of women in 2010, chris, and they are coming back

in droves. we have had had so many great images. first of all, the whole debate over contraception the last two weeks, it brought home to a lot of women, that wow, the affordable care act really pays for my contraception without a co-pay? people didn't know that. that's a great benefit to a lot of women. also, i think this is terrifying. i think the terri schiavo moment, the comparison is very apt. president bush had won re-election. the republicans looked strong, and suddenly, they're marching into a woman's bedroom and coming back from vacation and passing laws. and they make very palpable what democrats complain about. that they want to intrude in our personal lives. suddenly, people really saw what that meant. that's happening again with contraception, with the ridiculous hearing yesterday, and our friend foster friess and the aspirin. which most people are too young to even understand what that was about. it's hilarious.

>> i'm not too young or too old. i don't even know what he's talking about. i wonder what days he was talking about? before gunsmoke. michael steele for the defense here. your political party. guess who was up there playing chaplain the day of the schiavo vote with three u.s. senators they voted to intervene in a family matter down in florida involving a woman who was on a respirator. the whole situation we're now aware of. a very sad case for a woman there. a young woman dying at that age. but getting involved in that case as a u.s. congressman. >> stuck in the craw of a lot of conservatives around the country because those of us who believe the government has no place in the bedroom. it has no place in the health decisions that families have to make, which is the crux of our argument of obama care in the first place. that gets thrown out of the window. i think this case, this situation is a little bit worse than the schiavo because at

least with the schiavo, you had some women who understood and would probably be with the party's position in terms of wanting to have the family make this choice or that choice. but here, this is much more personal to every woman. and so now you have the party or at least certain voices out there that have moved this off of the conversation that it was, i think, rightly on, on the role of church and state. the freedom of speech. the freedom of association, of religion. now you're talking about the health of women. you're talking about the types of recourse they have action to to preserve their health. it's not a good spot for the party. they need to get off this conversation and focus on -- >> do you have anything hard on this? >> i have seen some early polling from inside a number of the campaigns that is not pretty. we're beginning to hemorrhage independent women. and women more broadly. >> right. >> they are moving away from our

leading candidates, santorum and romney, around this issue. and they have to figure out a way to stop the bleeding and then retract the conversation about the economy and on to things that women are more concerned about than having a bunch of men sit down to decide what their health issues should be. >> but they keep doubling down. >> they are trying to keep people from having birth control as part of their lives. just in modern day, we all know the situation. i want to go to this. as we reported yesterday, there were no women present in the first panel on the house oversight hearing on contraceptive coverage. today democratic senators made that slight very clear. >> they held a hearing on the administration's decision to ensure that women have access to affordable contraception. but guess who was missing? the women. >> for millions of american women, reading the news was like stepping into a time machine and going back 50 years.

seeing the headlines and the photos of an all-male panel in the house talking about a woman's right to access birth control. >> when will they get this simple nondebatable fact? the power to decide whether or not a woman will use contraception lies with her. not her boss. not her employer. >> let's go on to this issue. it seems to me, in all fairness, joan, you and i had a different perspective on this. i don't think different values but different perspective about the way the matter was proceeding a week ago. then it changed. once the president laid down what he considered to be an important distinction. not whether women need full health care as part of the package, but not infringe on what the church felt was their domain. what they have to sign their name to. they said you don't have to sign your name to it. the government is going to take care of it with the insurance companies. i think he finessed that.

henceforth, you think they would have pushed back and said we made our point. instead they pushed forward and said let's make this a birth control issue. right? >> right. this is not their point. that was the point of certain church leaders and certain catholics who felt strongly about it. that was their point. but once that accommodation was reached and you had catholic charities and catholic health association applauding it, chris, you saw republicans whose real problem is contraception, not just the religious -- >> how can that be? how can that be a problem for them? >> i don't know. >> what does it mean exactly that you're against contraception? >> and i don't think it is. look. we're forgetting another major player here in this process and that was the obama political operation which i think did a wonderful job of shifting the dynamics of this conversation and focusing it around the issue of contraception because that is a much more explosive conversation to have for the gop than the one they were having. >> let me show you one of your

top candidates. i think we can clear the air here. i may not be fair. but in an interview last october, not a million years ago, this past october, rick santorum who is now running head to head for the republican nomination, talked about what he called the dangers of contraception. let's listen. >> one of the things i will talk about that no president has talked about before. i think the dangers of contraception in this country. many in the christian faith have said that's okay. contraception is okay. it's not okay. it's a license to do things in a sexual realm that's counter to how things are supposed to be. it's supposed to be within marriage. for purposes that, yes, conjugal and also unity but also procreative. and that's the way that a sexual union should happen. >> i was thinking of the old

bullwinkle show. in the way back machine. where are we going today, sherman? we're going way back to 1953. we're debating contraception. >> you know -- >> my view on that is, there's a reason why no presidential candidate or president has talked about this issue before. because the church has not talked about it. >> i haven't heard a sermon on this since the '50s. the church's teaching is clear. what the church lays out is its teaching. this is one church. and then you have your pastors and priests within that church who from sunday to sunday, week to week, guide the faithful along that path on those teachings. it is not the purview and this is a real big issue here, for me at least, it's not the purview of politicians. i don't care if they are republicans or democrats.

to get in and pontificate on doctrine when it comes to policy. >> let's talk politics. let's look at a new poll. this will also clear the air. a new cbs poll taken this february, basically spanned opinion before and after the president announced his accommodation this past friday which kept the religious institutions from having to sign on. 66% support the federal requirement that private insurance plans cover the full cost of birth control. now there's a very clearly worded comprehensive question that says should it be fully covered without a co-pay and it should be a federal requirement. a federal requirement that people with clear eyes said -- yes, 66%. >> two-thirds. >> no was only 26%. 1 in 4. your thoughts? i mean, this is a pretty clear public opinion here, i think. >> it's very clear. it's clear among catholics. we had had the debate about what catholics thought and catholics were divided. but when the dust settled, chris, you know the only people

who were opposed to this are the people who are most opposed are born-again evangelical christians. again, this is a christian right issue. it's an issue they try to use to gin up the culture war. rush limbaugh says they are going to win the culture war. i think he's a secret democrat. i think he's a closet democrat because he's leading michael's party off a cliff on this issue. all the polls show that. and michael has the integrity to admit that. this is not something republicans should want to be talking about because americans don't want to talk about. we settled it a long time ago. >> the progressive readers and lovers of salon are probably happy tonight and the progressive people that want to see the president re-elected must be wondering, is this the luckiest man in the history of the planet? >> well, through the month of february. we'll see what happens in march and april. >> rick santorum has come back to haunt your party with his strong views. michael steele, thank you. i don't know if you're rooting for the other guy or not. joan walsh, thank you.

up next, rick santorum's surge is real. now the obama campaign is considering taking him on down the road. they may have to fight this guy come november. they are getting ready. they don't want to get too ready because in a weird way, i think they want him to be the nominee. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers.

we have a new poll from the senate race in massachusetts. it doesn't look like other recent polls we have been tracking. let's check the "hardball" score board. according to the new suffolk whdh poll, scott brown has a nine-point lead over elizabeth warren. the first time we have seen him up.

a poll earlier this week showed warren with a three-point edge. other recent polling had warren in the lead. maybe this is a poll outside the norm here. we'll keep tracking those numbers from massachusetts. early in the game. this is still the hottest race, i think, in the country for the senate. "hardball" back after this. ng sn flavor boost. concentrated broth in easy to use packets. mix it into skillet dishes, for an instant dose of... hell-o! [ female announcer ] new swanson flavor boost.

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yep. we also cover rvs, boats, atvs. anything else i can help you with? -can i take a ride? -you need a ticket -- -i'm first! -and that's by the water slide. okay. no running. oh, dear. save on all your rides. now, that's progressive. call or click today. welcome back to "hardball." boston the home of mitt romney's campaign headquarters has its eyes on rick santorum now and his recent rise in the polls. a rise so steep you can see santorum is ahead in four national polls. but narrowly. further west, another campaign is watching santorum. team obama is following the new front-runner and waiting to jump into the fight and start framing the story of who rick santorum is. do they sense a threat? well, perhaps. susan page is bureau chief for usa today. jonathan martin is a political writer. i don't want to jump ahead. i think they think they are

still thinking they are facing romney. is that correct? >> they still think romney is still the stronger candidate for the republicans to nominate against barack obama, but hard to ignore the fact that rick santorum has won four states. and is now leading, as you say in these national polls. >> but right now, are they rooting for santorum? >> rooting for santorum over romney? >> are they basically saying come on, rick? >> they have seen the vulnerabilities that mitt romney is displaying. >> who has more? >> but i think that rick santorum is a more target-rich environment. >> his rap sheet which -- >> for a general election, absolutely. >> because his problems with womens and gays. majority voters are women. >> the obama path, they think, is to go in the states like virginia, north carolina, nevada, colorado, the so-called enclaves of upscale suburbanites who work in technology who don't

have cultural baggage and are not hard-core partisans. but who have moved away from the gop in the last five, six years. if santorum is the nominee, that's a good contrast for president obama. >> that's a bonus. but does rick pick up the reagan democrats? >> that's the other side of the argument. exactly right. would santorum be a tougher candidate than romney? >> the older people that once voted democrat are now voting more republican. can he pick up all of them? >> it will be tougher in michigan, ohio, pennsylvania, the rust belt, because he has that cultural down market appeal in a way that romney does not. >> who is running the better campaign? santorum has no money. he hasn't had endorsements. >> he's coming off an 18-point loss in pennsylvania. >> six years ago. >> yet he's leading the national field. so sometimes the most rational analysis doesn't fit the way the politics work. >> let's look at "the wall

street journal." in its news today, quote, mr. santorum doesn't come with a type of political baggage that gingrich had, said one obama adviser. he has the ability to go farther and is much more likely to be a potential nominee. directing attacks against mr. santorum is under discussion at the headquarters in chicago. see we have evidence they are under discussion. it doesn't sound like they are moving very fast. my thought is they want santorum to do all the damage he can, rough up romney and maybe at best beat him but at least rough him up as much as possible between now and tampa. >> and drag it well into the spring, if not the summer. i think the posture right now is, go, rick, go. they want him to do well in michigan. michigan is an open primary. democrats can vote there. they are going to have to say that they are republicans at the polling place, but they can show up there and vote. if a couple thousand democrats show up in michigan, i think it could help.

>> the country is dropping the debates like flies. the cnn debate is now dead down there. wasn't everyone like to see a m mano-e-mano between santorum and romney now? just the two of them. let them go at it. the cultural conservative and the detached presence of romney. >> reporters would like that and santorum would like that. i don't know if the nation is hoping for this kind of debate. maybe. >> are you working against me here? >> i think if newt does fade here -- >> the thing in austin powers where the seat disappears? we'd need santorum. we love this guy. >> but if newt does fade hard here, i think you'll see a one on one-type campaign where there will be pressure to do more debates because you'll have, like you said, a mano-e-mano-style campaign. whoever is losing is going to be pushing for february debates. if santorum makes a move, you'll

see romney call for more debates and vice versa. >> the president is still in the race. he's willing to make his fight. here he is in washington today fighting for the 99%. he's still thinking romney is the opponent. mr. 1%. he'd like to put that on his bowling shirt. >> bowling shirt? >> never went to a bowling alley. excuse me, mitt romney. let's listen. >> we have a choice right now. we can either settle for a country where a few people do really well and everybody else is struggling, or we can restore an economy where everybody gets a fair shot. and everybody does their fair share. and everybody plays by the same set of rules from washington to wall street to main street. everybody is doing their part. >> the campaign has started. >> i'm loving this. i think he's really beginning to feel like this presidential office fits him. it fits him well. the role he's playing in history of being the popular leader. against what he sees as a

reactionary party of the elite. he seems very happy right now. that man looks happy. i never thought he was populist until recently. >> he's trying the suit on now. >> doesn't it seem to fit him? >> i think he's engaged now. for a while, he seemed a little detached from some of the things you need to do in a campaign. he's totally engaged in that now. >> columbia and harvard law are not the little kids -- the state university. but yet he's adapted and coming off like the middle class guy and the middle class champion. >> what's better news for him is the economic indicators that are coming out. today up 0.4%. sign after sign that the economy is recovering. and in time this year to do him some good. >> how does romney complain about this guy's economic performance when the stock market is back up to where it was before this mishegoss that they created in '08 and '09?

>> because you can point to the fact that more and more people in the workforce have stopped looking for a job. >> but the markets, they are richer. all the people that vote republican have more money thanks to obama. >> well, but a lot of those folks are voting for democrats now. >> if this was happening under w., he would be jumping up and down. >> you'll see that in the months ahead. things are turning around. it's morning again in america. you'll hear that message time and time again from obama. >> thank you, susan page and jonathan martin. romney is trying to look like an average joe. that's a pathetic effort. now he's telling a new story involving pink nail polish. trees are just the right height. he's talking nail polish. severely conservative. he can't learn the idiom of our language. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc.

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i feel like one of the luckiest guys in the world. ♪ until the end of the quarter to think about your money... ♪ that right now, you want to know where you are, and where you'd like to be. we know you'd like to see the same information your advisor does so you can get a deeper understanding of what's going on with your portfolio. we know all this because we asked you, and what we heard helped us create pnc wealth insight, a smarter way to work with your pnc advisor, so you can make better decisions and live achievement. back to "hardball." now for the "sideshow" this friday. first up, mitt romney the prankster. that doesn't sound right, does it?

as rick santorum is gaining popularity thanks to his average joe persona, romney is doing what he can to step it up. yesterday room -- romney let an ohio crowd in on a story he said he kept under wraps until that very moment. let's listen. >> you know where elyria, ohio, is. there was a young lady who i had once spent some time with. she decided to marry a fellow. it was a perfect wedding. they had little bottles of shocking pink nail polish so all the bridesmaids had the same nail polish. i found the groom's shoes he rented. i took some of the nail polish and i wrote something on the bottom of his shoes. the minister gave a beautiful service. then he said, let us pray and the couple knelt down. slowly but surely, people ahead of us began to shake and point at the shoes. in bright pink letters it said h-e-l-p on the bottom of his shoes.

i haven't seen a crowd in ohio rock like this before. >> it's painful. this is romney's problem. he doesn't know what to say to people. this one is going to be the moment of the week. luis gutierrez thinks newt gingrich is trying to speak for catholics when he bashes the decision on contraception coverage. he sees more than a few ironies with that one. he channeled his disbelief with this rift yesterday on the house floor. let's watch. >> if newt gingrich can speak for american catholics, then it's true. in america, anything is possible. maybe charlie sheen can become the spokesperson for the temperance movement. lebron james can be in charge of the cleveland chamber of commerce and the cast of "jersey shore" can lead a national campaign for manners, humility and modesty. if newt gingrich can do it, why can't they? in fact if newt gingrich can do it, why can't i. this is me with senator bill bradley.

he's over 6'6" and i'm barely 5'6". he's noticed the difference and has given me a friendly kiss on the top of my head. i'm pleased to announce today if newt gingrich can speak for our catholics, i'm going to speak for all tall people. >> i think the gentleman from illinois made his point. he certainly did. coming up, will mitt romney's strategy of bashing labor unions backfire in michigan. he's out there bashing labor unions. do you believe it? you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. el the playing field. take the privileged investing tools of wall street and make them simple, intuitive, and available to all. distill all that data. make information instinctual, visual. introducing trade architect, td ameritrade's empowering web-based trading platform. take control of your portfolio today. trade commission-free for 60 days, and we'll throw in up to $600 when you open an account.

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i'm milissa rehberger. a 29-year-old moroccan man was arrested near the capital while on a mission to detonate an explosive vest. the vest was given to him by undercover fbi agents. defense officials tell nbc news that a number of u.s. drones are in the skies over

syria. they are monitoring clashes between government and opposition forces. and new jersey governor chris christie has rejected a bill allowing same-sex marriage. lawmakers have until january of 2014 to override that veto. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." it looks like mitt romney is engaged in a high-risk strategy as he fights to win the first of his many home states. michigan, which is just a few days off right now. romney has taken every opportunity he can to start bashing the labor unions out there. here are a few of his recent jabs. let's watch him. >> i have taken on union bosses before. i'm happy to take them on again because i happen to believe you can protect the interests and a great industry like automobiles without having to give in to the uaw. >> some of the union bosses get things wrong.

i'm concerned when i watch a president kowtow to the union bosses by putting in place the labor stooges that stopped the boeing decision in south carolina. >> let's make sure we have not crony capitalism where the president is giving to his friends that helped him in his campaign, in this case, the unions, the benefit of the federal largess. >> i haven't heard this in awhile. a candidate bashing the unions. as such as bloomberg news points out more than 18% of the workforce in michigan belongs to a union. more than a quarter of the people who voted in the republican primary in 2008 were from households that included a union member. that's the republican primary. meanwhile, romney continues to struggle to explain his opposition to the auto bailout, something almost every economist agrees helped save gm and chrysler and created jobs in michigan. we'll be talking to the mayor of flint himself. with me right now is david corn of mother jones.

this generalized attacking on labor, you don't hear that anymore. it's like birth control. you might have one guy like jimmy hoffa going after it. >> we're really going back to the '50s this week. republican leaders out there, including governor rick snyder, are not backing romney up on the union bashing. when asked about it they're saying, we have some disagreements because they know the stat that you just put out there. 18% of the voting electorate are union households. so what he's doing is making a bid for a very small group of people. republican primary voters who can't stand unions. why? because rick santorum from pennsylvania, a good union state, has voted against right to work laws. this is where he thinks he can be more conservative than rick santorum who is widely seen as more conservative than him. >> i don't think he's known as anti-labor. >> no, rick santorum is not. this is one of the few places --

>> you can't survive in pennsylvania politics and known to be antilabor. it's a union state. this is what he said about the auto industry. remember motown, no town. let's watch. >> i love the businesses of this city. i love the auto industry. i want to see it thrive and grow. i'm glad it went through a managed bankruptcy process, which i recommended from the beginning to get its footing. in had my view, this auto industry can continue to lead the world and must continue to lead the world to keep detroit with a vibrant and prosperous future. >> he's supporting managed bankruptcy. not t.a.r.p. there's a position, almost like the old jerry ford to new york. you know, ford to new york, drop dead. now that the thing is coming back, all the auto companies are doing pretty well. >> very well actually. his position is like saying osama bin laden would be more dead if i had been president. it's absurd.

the managed bankruptcy he talked about could not have happened because there was no credit flowing. the economist had a devastating piece today saying we were against the bailout. the auto bailout. we were wrong. looking back at it, nobody would have come in in a managed bankruptcy situation to save these companies. >> there was no private money. >> they would have been carved up and sold off for dead. that's what he says would have worked better. he's totally out to sea on this. he's out of gas. >> the problem also, he's got the bain capital. he was part of a company that did the chop shop stuff. that's the very thing those companies do. take big things, break them into pieces and make some money. here he is in 2008. romney laid out his position on the bailout in a "new york times" editorial entitled "let detroit go bankrupt." he wrote if general motors, ford, and chrysler get the bailout that chief executives asked for, you can kiss the american automotive industry good-bye. it won't go overnight, but it's demise will be guaranteed.

what can he mean by that now that they have survived despite his opposition? >> it's like he's in cirque du soleil. he's contorting himself because he's doubled down on that position to attack the unions. obama's bailout -- >> is he arguing that the help from the government is going to poison their long-term potential to compete? is there something more subtle we're missing here? >> i think what he's saying is it would have been better to do it in the public sector. he's playing to a small slice of the public. republicans in michigan, a slight majority of them, were against the bailout. and amongst people who vote, the more conservative republicans more of them were. >> let's to go to the mayor of flint. mayor dane whaling. thanks for joining us tonight. we want to ask you what you make of this comment. let's look at something that mitt romney said just recently about his love of michigan. i want your thoughts about this. special emphasis on the trees. >> okay. >> i was born and raised here. i love this state.

it seems right here. trees are the right height. i like seeing the lakes. i love the lakes. just something very special here. the great lakes, but also the inland lakes that dot the parts of michigan. i love cars. i grew up totally loving cars. >> i know he would pander by saying i love cars. by the way, who doesn't love cars? we americans love cars. what did he mean the trees are the right height? you're an expert on your state and city. what does he mean by that. we need to know not being from michigan. >> i have never heard anyone say that before. i just don't know what it means. we're focused on trying to grow the economy, not the height of trees. it doesn't make any sense. >> let's talk about your auto industry. you're in flint. i've seen enough michael moore exposs. i'm sure you've seen him, too. what's going on? all we read is good news. we thought the auto industry was getting killed by japan and germany and korea.

and it's doing pretty good. >> gm has come back strong. that's great news for flint and for michigan. the uaw and the management have worked together. we have products like the silverado hd, which was the 2011 motor trend truck of the year rolling off the assembly lines in flint. we have a third shift back to work. more than a thousand new people working in the community. that means they can pay their bills and support their families and important for local governments. they can pay some taxes. >> why is romney wailing against union membership? it sounds like old-time republican talk. very old-time. >> yeah. it's hard to figure out who he is pandering to. he's always flip-flopping on the issues. but what we want to see is a strong partnership with our federal government. we want a president who will stand up for working families and middle class security. there were more than a million jobs at risk in this great recession in the auto industry alone. the president took a decisive

step. he made some smart decisions that put people back to work. and there were some other provisions that made sure that the assets, the land, the brown fields, in a place like flint are now in responsible hands. when you talk about something being washed through the market and sold to the highest bidder, those protections go out the window. >> talk about the bailout. the federal role in all this. what role did it play as you see it as mayor of flint, michigan? >> i take my cues from general motors and the big three's leadership. and they said it took a process. it took the federal government being involved to protect this valuable american asset. this is one of the industries we can count on in the 21st century. and general motors has shown with the right support and the right team and leadership in place, they are able to outcompete with anyone in the world. they are now the largest selling auto manufacturer in the world. that's exactly the kind of industry we need in this country to anchor our new

economy. >> i'd like you to finish this sentence. what's good for general motors is good for -- >> it's still good for the united states. it's great for our position in the world economy in the 21st century. more people are buying cars than ever before around the world. we want the american auto industry to be leading that industry forward. >> okay. thank you. have a nice weekend. it looks like things are looking up out there. mayor dane walling of flint, michigan. what an iconic place to represent. david corn, it's like being a washington representative for "mother jones." it's the same thing. seriously, flint, michigan, the heart of america. the tea party is headed for a big defeat in november. it had a big win in 2010. are they falling in power? this is "hardball" on msnbc. ♪ there's a place i dream about ♪ ♪ where the sun never goes out ♪

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we're back. the tea party's impact, does it still have the momentum going into the 2012 race? an open question, jen me jenny beth martin is co-author of a new book by the same name. i know there are patriots outside the tea party. let's start, politics. what is your purpose when you help as individual members or as a group, help somebody get elected to congress and you send them back here. what do you want them to do when they get to washington and get paid 170 a year. they've got the staff, everything. the transportation.

what do you want them to do when they get here? >> i want to make sure we're clear that we don't help or endorse candidates get elected. >> what do you want them to do? >> when they get elected we want to see them cut the overspending. >> how do you do that? how do you get -- you need 60 votes in the senate. >> yeah. >> and 218 in the house and then a president to sign that bill. how do you get that done? >> you have to keep pressuring the congressmen and let them know what you think the solutions are. there are a lot of solutions on the table. they just voted today to put us another $100 billion in debt. and they didn't do anything at all to offset it. >> how do you get that to happen? >> there's legislation out there. the gao has just -- has released, not just released, but has released a list of duplicative services in the government. start cutting there. $100 billion could be cut right now and it wouldn't even hurt the government. >> you're talking the talk. i know what you're trying to do and it's for real and legitimate from your perspective, but how do you get this to happen?

you've had two years there. a lot of people elected with tea party support. it didn't happen. how do you get it to happen? >> i don't think we expected it to happen. i think we've gotten pretty much what you expected. we had a senate that was still controlled by the democrats. we knew a lot of the republicans would be in the system, it takes more than one psych toll make this happen. >> but you don't -- in this country you have cycles. you don't have long trends. you think there will be a long trend over five or ten years where all of a sudden the country will get conservative, all agree, you'll get the senate and house super majority in the senate and president all three -- >> we have that in the early 2,000s. >> they didn't do what you want themd to -- wanted them to do. you're skipping over the step, how does the success occur? >> i'll tell you how you get it done. it's not just the tea party

movement. it's americans. the ruling class, the entrenched in couple beens againkum becoupe have to remove a lot of incumbents at the primary stage and will do that, that will happen in 2012, that will change the dynamics on both sides of the aisle. it's not a partisan issue. >> you don't believe us? >> i don't believe it. >> let me tell you how we will do it. >> i have been watching politics, here is how it works. i will be big brother and tell you what happens. you may not like the looks but the way it works. there are trends, when the economy is bad we throw out one party, put in the other party, then put the other one in. these are sicycles. the party in gets blamed when things go bad, the other party

roars back in you don't have long trends. it's back and forth. >> how that is working for us? >> how do you change it? >> the country has changed before our history is relatively short considering the history of mankind, changed before, revolution, we're talking peaceful revolution. >> the liberal, the big liberal period lasted about four or five years, the liberal period under lbj lasted a year or two then it was gone. these zealous periods don't last long. >> i'm look at longer -- >> you can see the tren left it started in the 1890 pz an arc of over 100 years. >> you will begin to crest.

>> i'll take that any day. >> good luck, i like people that believe in the country and a lot more people are patriots in this country than those on the right. i happen to be one. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you for coming in. tea party patriots. >> let me finish with a word about a friend and colleague of mine for years, patrick j. buchanan. watching "hardball" only on msnbc. then i found new pronutrients omega-3. it's from centrum. it's a smaller minigel. with two of the best omegas to support my heart, brain and eyes. new pronutrients from centrum. ♪ imagine zero pollutants in our environment. or zero dependency on foreign oil. ♪ this is why we at nissan built a car inspired by zero. because zero is worth everything.

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let me finish with pat bu kanan, leaving the network and won't be working with us from now on. i miss him already. we had drag down fights right here on this set i said things that drive him up a wall and he said things that have driven me up a wall. we've done it here in a pretty good spirit most of the time have managed to be friendly and friends throughout it all. obviously i will miss his cheerful, fun-loving presence around here. there are two aspects of pat buchanan i like to mention, one highly and wonder fully positive, the other that is the one that gets him in trouble. of the good quality above his relentless genialities is loyalty. he will laugh with you about the frailties of those he served but never quits being loyal. his proof of loyalty was strong defense of richard nixon. at his moment of greatest

vulnerability, so many others running for the tree line. pat was in the open field with a national television cameras right on him and here what is he said to enemy and friend alike. >> the president conducted an administration for four years that had won the confidence or support of millions of democrats. the president's stand upon the issues of defense and welfare, upon taxes and government, upon integration and bussing were closer to what the american people wanted than those of his opponents. because of the quality and character of our candidate, if one looks back over the history of the country, there is only one other man other than richard nixon who has been his party's nominee for president or vice president five times. that is franklin roosevelt. >> that is pat testifying before the senate watergate committee in the fall of 1973, defending nixon in his hour of peril, using sharp mind and wit to

stand up for someone who placed his trust in him, young pat buchanan. name another public figure who has built his public career on being a stalworth loyalist to nixon. loyalty is the heart of pat's being. he is loyal to country, church, to neighborhood, to heritage, to pat the world can never be better than the one he grew up in as a young boy. gonzaga high school, georgetown university, no country will be better than the united states of america, of the early 1950s. his deep, loyalty to preserving that reality and all the cultural and ethnic aspects that has been his primal purpose and got him in trouble, not just but over the years. >> as the boys took back the streets of los angeles, block by block, my friends we must take back our cities and take back our culture