cat. and as such, he can't talk. but he is a fine dancer. and, you know, you wouldn't want to mess with him. he is more of a lover not a fighter. there you go. we'll see you tomorrow from osu. thanks. the university of kentucky and the wildcats. thank you for hosting us today. "hardball" is up right now. a hell of a primary. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. leading off tonight the exorcist. rick santorum has got a thing with the devil. he's talked about him, warned about him like he knows him just a little too personally. now drudge is on santorum's tail and even rush says he has to explain himselves. not that things needed heating

up today. this afternoon santorum said president obama is out to crush the nation's judeo-christian principles. can even rick santorum win in a war against democrats and the devil even if he says they're in cahoots? plus, how to lose independent women in ten easy steps. the republicans have a plan for it. just keep trying to limit contraception and mandate ultra sounds for women seeking abortions. virgin virginia's republican governor backed down today a bit. if you are on the obama campaign you're sitting on the sidelines yelling way to go, guys. also, remember the old ad, when e.f. hutton talks people listen? these days when mitt romney talks people laugh. or wince. the trees are the right height. i was severely conservative. what is mitt talking about? literally. we'll ask his former, you won't believe it, debate coach. and the singer in chief is back at it again last night. there he is. ♪ come on baby don't you want to go ♪ >> well, the guy can sing.

we're learning that. it's going to be more of that in the side show. let me finish with the closeness of this thing coming in this national election. wait until you see the quipoll numbers tonight. we begin with the comments on satan in 2008. michael steele served as chair of the republican national committee. david corn is mother jones washington bureau chief, both msnbc political hot shots. here it is. fair enough. four years ago. no, your big 16-ounce gloves against each other. back in 2008 rick santorum spoke at a catholic university down in florida and spoke about the threat of satan in the united states. in fact, on the united states. let's listen to what rick had to say back then. >> this is not a political war at all. this is not a cultural war at all. this is a spiritual war. and the father of lies has his sights on what you would think the father of lies, satan, would have his sights on -- a good, decent, powerful, influential

country. the united states of america. if you were satan, who would you attack in this day and age? there is no one else to go after other than the united states. >> there is no one else to go after but the united states, mr. devil. last night rick santorum tried to put those remarks into context. let's watch. >> a person of faith. i believe in good and evil. i think if somehow or another because you're a person of faith and believe in good and evil disqualifies you for president we're going to have a very small pool of candidates. we're talking about trying to get america growing. that's what my speeches are about and what we're going to talk about in this campaign. if they want to dig up old speeches talking to a religious group they can go ahead and do so but i'm going to stay on message. >> well, today he had more to say on the subject. i want to catch up with our two panelists right now. michael, what is he -- he is giving speeches about the devil at a catholic university, fair enough. >> four years ago. >> do you think that's fine?

>> absolutely. i've given such speeches myself. you know, i was a former seminarian and giving motivational speeches and the like, yeah. you touch on the things that culturally and spiritually affect people and i think there is a resonance out there for what rick is saying. now, running for president, people aren't used to having a presidential candidate talk in those terms and so the ear is a little jarred by it. >> what about his theology? even in the context of four years ago. that the devil is out to get the u.s.? >> well, i think he's talking about a spiritual malaise that has affected the country. you go to any church, synagogue, imam, and christian church on sundays or fridays, you hear that message. it's not a foreign message to be heard. >> your thought? >> you are being very charitable. >> i'm not being charitable. >> listen. he said satan is targeting the u.s. alone. he is leaving canada and belgium apparently to their own devices.

but the thing is he also said it's not just about good and evil in the world and using the devil as sort of a metaphoric way. he said satan is taking control, has seized control of the academia, of protestant churches, main line protestant churches have fallen to satan. now, go make that argument as you go out there and campaign. it was four years ago. this wasn't some youthful indiscretion that years in the past, it shows how he thinks about the world. >> all in that same speech. >> yeah. but if you do believe that your political foes are motivated by satan or part of a satanic plot or -- >> did he say that? >> listen, he said -- >> he didn't say that. >> extrapolate -- >> david, i've given you -- >> let me make the point. he says politics in this country have fallen to satan so he is saying what he doesn't like about politics -- >> a lot of people believe that. i'm surprised you didn't include the press. >> what i'm saying is if you believe that how can you compromise with the other side? >> we have fresh meat. we're not talking about four years ago though i think it is in context.

today rick santorum, candidate for president, on the campaign trail, for president, took on the sitting president barack obama on his moral values. let's watch today's news. >> the greatness of america is we have such diversity with this proviso -- e pluribus unum, right? out of many, one. essentially we are going to have to hold together on some set of moral codes and principles and we're seeing evidently what the president's moral codes and principles are about. we see a president who is systematically trying to crush the traditional judeo christian principles in this country. i mean, you -- you saw it. you saw it with obama care and the implementation of obama care where his values are going to be

imposed on a church's values. >> well, there you have it. fresh news. the president is guilty of crushing traditional christianity and jewish values and principles. he's crushing them. he is doing that. he is bringing forward his theology of four years ago right into the public square right into his campaign. he is not being squeamish. >> no he's not. look, you can disagree with him all day long. i give anyone props who is willing to go out there in the context of running for office to put that -- put their faith alongside of that effort. i'm not going to begrudge him that. you can argue around the edges about whether you agree or disagree. you can't criticize -- you can criticize me on my policies. you can't criticize me on my faith because that is something that is core to what i believe. >> if you're talking about running for office you can. >> let me make my point. i am not going to criticize you

on your faith no matter what you say. >> i'm not running for president. >> whether you are or not my point -- >> he is putting his faith out there. >> let me ask you this. rick santorum is pro life and would like to establish what he calls a common set of moral principles. he does want to impose if you will his values on a very pluralistic society. doesn't he want to do that? >> i think he is saying that the count country, from out of many one, we as a country have settled on certain moral codes or values and what i was going to say, in the context of this race, looking a the president's handling of the decision on you know contraceptions and the church, looking at the president's decision to cut off scholarship funding for placing like carroll high school in washington, d.c. that would empower young african-american boys and girls, there is a moral code there that attends that

policy. >> let's get back to where we're strongest. not who is right and moralistic. christians and my religion doesn't think of the devil as a metaphor. it's a real thing. i don't want anybody watching confused about what we believe. here is rush limbaugh weighing in. let's go back to the politics where we are strong. a warning santorum will need answers when he faces -- here is rushbo the defender of the right and the realm saying he has to answer questions about what he has been saying even four years ago. let's listen to limbaugh. >> it's part of a predictable attempt to impune santorum as an absolute religious nut and wacko. but he did say these things. and he is going to have to have an answer for these things when queried wlanchts queried. >> i agree. the problem i have with corn is that corn is sitting in judgment of his faith values and saying

that therefore i get to scrutinize and say whether it's right or wrong. >> are you doing that? >> i'm not saying right or wrong. >> you're sitting in judgment. >> i am saying you can evaluate them. >> stop for a second. let me referee. are you questioning rick santorum's right to his religious beliefs. >> not at all. >> what are you questioning? >> the impact on his policy view of the world and his -- >> where? where? >> if he says protestant churches are controlled by satan that seems to me to indicate he has a certain view of protestants. >> what policy, david, are you specifically addressing that to? >> how can you -- how can you be president of the entire nation if you believe part of them are part of satan -- >> where is the policy -- >> abortion, contraception? >> where is the policy implication? >> let me help you out.

this isn't complicated. i think what he is talking about not to speak for rick santorum and not defending his view but simply to translate him he is talking about some of the main stream protestant religions now that accept same sex marriage, they accept same sex relationships. they accept gay people in their priesthood. >> they accept abortion. >> these are all policy matters. >> you are saying he has no right to say that. >> he can say whatever he wants to say but he can be judged -- >> can he believe that? >> he can believe whatever he wants to. >> but not if he wants to be president of the united states. let me ask you this. how do you then resolve barack obama sitting in reverend wright's church for 20 years and hearing black liberation theology and how he has applied that to his policies? how does he just nigh? >> very simple. >> of course. >> has barack obama espoused these views? >> you see it in the policies. the difference between barack obama and --

>> this isn't working. let me try something here. let's let sarah palin speak. >> all right. >> now we get something. here is sarah palin on "sean and hannity" last night. she went after the media for focusing on this. even having this donny brook you guys are having. let's watch. >> they will attack any conservative who boldly proclaims their faith and talks about there is good and evil in the world. and that's what rick santorum was talking about. and this was a speech he gave back in 2008 where he named evil as satan. and for these lame stream media characters to get all weeweeed up about that first you have to ask yourself have they ever attended a sunday school class even? have they never heard this terminology before? that's why they just got so, you know, whacked out about this speech. >> can we listen to chris christie to hear, a man i

consider fairly secular in his thinking and then respond -- here is chris christie talking on gma about the very topic. he supports romney by the way and had his thumb on the scale here going after santorum's satan remarks. then michael, mr. chairman, i want you to respond and then you. >> listen. i think anything you say as a presidential candidate is relevant. i mean, it's by definition relevant you're asking to be president of the united states. i don't think he is right about that. it is relevant what he says. i think people want to make an evaluation, complete evaluation of anybody who asks to sit in the oval office. i think it's relevant. in that respect. i think it's the things we should be as a party talking about and emphasizing at the moment? no. >> relevant or not relevant? >> trust me i'm not disagreeing with the relevance. i agree with that. but the problem is you don't get to sit in judgment of it. which is what i believe you're doing and i agree with sarah palin by the way. >> good. i'll take that. >> go, sarah. >> it's highly relevant. you can evaluate these people on the basis of how they see the

world. >> i am somewhere in between. thank you michael steele and david corn. this is what people are going to be arguing about this year, unfortunately. the devil. coming up the more republicans talk about limiting birth control or requiring women to get ultra sound before having an abortion the more vulnerable they are with many independent women. not speaking for everybody but this stuff from my conversation is very concerning to women. they don't like it. now the virginia governor who wants to be on the republican ticket i'm told is pulling back from this stuff. he is not happy with all this talk about restricting women in terms of abortion. you're watching "hardball." we'll talk about that when we come back. hang in women. this is going to be hot. only on msnbc. i tried weight loss plans... but their shakes aren't always made for people with diabetes. that's why there's new glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and they have 6 grams of sugars. with 15 grams of protein to help manage hunger... look who's getting smart about her weight.

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47/44. now look at the new associated press poll. obama leads romney nationally by eight and he leads santorum by 52 to 43. now look at a couple key states that have been battlegrounds but aren't too close right now. in wisconsin, president obama leads romney by 15 points in a new poll from marquette law school. 53-38. and the president's lead over santorum in the badger state is 11. 51-40. in michigan obama has an 18-point lead over romney in our new nbc news marist poll, 51-43. against santorum the president's lead is 26. 55 to 29. finally to arizona, a state that was seen as out of reach for the democrats but is tightening. romney leads the president by only 45 to 40. santorum is up by three, 45-42. we'll have much more on these michigan and arizona numbers later in the show. ars. all because so many people wanted to visit us... ars.

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welcome back to "hardball." in what could signal a major political tipping point virginia governor bob mcdonald today said he would oppose a republican bill that would have required women to get an invasive ultra sound before getting an abortion in virginia. mcdonald, who is often talked about as a potential vp nominee for especially romney was criticized nationally for his earlier intent to sign a bill like that. and by more than a thousand protesters recently at the state capitol this monday. this comes following weeks of fighting here in washington over access to contraception, women's health care. the fights in which republicans appeared ready to battle hard to stop that contraceptive coverage as part of the health care law. what are the politics at play here and how will these fights affect women voters as we head toward the 2012 election? in fact, most women, well moat voters are women. joan walsh is an msnbc political

analyst and melinda hennenberger writes for "the washington post." emily's list is an organization which helps people get elected to politics. the political group which supports candidates who favor abortion rights is using last week's fights against women's health care in a new fund raising. it went up today in florida, california, illinois. let's listen to part of it. >> the power to decide whether or not women will use contraception lies with her. >> where are the women? >> so who should be heard? you. join us. go to emilys list.organize today. >> melinda, i want to have a general conversation with you and joan about this. you are both great people on this program obviously. i'm obviously going to listen to you mostly rather than talk. but i keep hearing from the women who produce us here shall the senior producers around me that they're very concerned that the government especially the republican party, exclusively the republican party, is making a move here to question whether

women should get contraceptions as part of the national health care plan. here in virginia across the potomac river and already done in eight states they are pushing to require women who chose to come to a clinic to have an abortion have to sit and watch something as part of a responsibility that they, the state decides they must meet that they can impose on somebody to look at an ultra sound or have in fact an ultra sound test. what does this politically mean? what is going on here politically? >> on the ultra sound issue in particular i think this decision by bob mcdonald to pull back to reverse himself to say this isn't going to happen is very, very important. i think we can draw from that that he is not only saying this doesn't work for virginia. when you read his statement he is saying this is actually at odds with republican rhetoric, that we as a party cannot say we, you know, invasive government, anathema to us, you know, a trans vaginal ultra

sound is not invasive. i just think the disconnect was too big and they realized this pushback. i mean, they see the kind of money women's groups are raising, pro choice women's groups are raising. >> so you see pure politics -- >> i think they see it goes too far. >> joan do you agree this is basically a political decision by the conservative governor of virginia that they've gone too far here potentially? >> oh, absolutely. i think he had signaled he was going to sign it. he's been on the far right on all of these decisions, chris, so this is really about the media and women's groups and individual women, wonderful women in virginia standing up and saying, you're going too far. most of us think that the outside your body ultra sound bill is also going too far. it is not like that is a great thing. it is very intrusive on a woman's decision. it is meant to stop abortion, stop the legal exercise of a right. so it's not like that is so great. but this really did show how out

of touch these people are that they were really willing to say, a woman has to submit to being penetrated if she wants an abortion. it's crazy. >> let me go to dangerous territory here. >> sure. >> i think sometimes common sense should interfere with the usual political discussions. ironically, it was the president of the united states who comes across to most people as rather secular. he goes to church. but he seems basically a secular politician i think it is fair to say. he doesn't wear his religion on his sleeve whatever his religion might be in his case and it is obviously a christian religion but when you push something through that says women should have access free to contraception that to me will probably be the greatest reduction potentially in the number of abortions in this country. >> right. >> if every woman has free -- there is no real financial excuse not to use protection to use the common phrase if you choose to have sex and you don't want to have children and therefore the great irony is that's one way to reduce radically the number of abortions, now along come the

conservatives with their way of reducing the number of abortions. their way of doing it is make you look at this ultra sound as you go in to get an abortion. >> right. >> i'd say get there for the takeoff not the landing. or the beginning. stop the conception. get there when you're not going to have the unwanted pregnancy. in the millions and millions of cases where women now get access to free birth control rather than the few isolated cases where a woman might change her mind. look, i'm up for free decision making. if they did have this testing and make a decision, fine. >> i just think that, you know, the catholic church has been working in this country for universal health care since 1919 and they should take the victory and go home. i mean, this is a very important -- it's such an important step forward from what we've all been working for all this long. i hope the compromise holds. we'll see whether it does or not. but i just think back to the politics of the thing it really -- i think it's why i

wrote the piece today that, you know, it's democrats who really want to make the conversation about this. >> joan, you pick up here. it's not just democrats who want to fight. as we speak, fred upton, boehner, the whole republican leadership on both sides is pushing a big bill to change the health care bill to deny people free contraception. >> right. >> i'm just saying that in the presidential race they would rather not make this the talking point. >> the president did something very important. he listened to the institute of medicine and he made a medical choice to say that insurance companies must provide contraception cost free because it keeps women healthy and because it actually saves money. so that is a no brainer. and the fact that these republicans from rick santorum and the entire field to john boehner think that they want to play politics with this and repeal that requirement when there are so many other requirements, look, i know they

want to repeal all of obama care as they call it but they're focusing on this because they do want to eliminate women's access to contraception. so, melinda, i so disagree with you on the notion that republicans are ginning this up. excuse me, democrats are ginning this up. >> i don't mean they're ginning it up. i think they are -- it's brilliant for them. why wouldn't they want to talk about it? it is a complete win for them on the political side. >> they are talking about it also because it is a real issue, not to raise money. >> they are in fact raising money. both sides. >> absolutely. but that is not the only issue. they are talking about it because it is a real issue. >> it's an outrage. >> it's not but you make it sound as if they are only doing it to raise money. they are doing it because women's rights are under threat. >> we'll bring this up again. thank you both. i respect both of you so much. melinda, and joan. thank you. >> thanks, chris. >> it is ash wednesday today. i am a little late getting there but i'll get there. thank you for coming on.

first al green, now bebe king. president obama is singing again and he is really good. next in the side show. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. ♪ baby don't you wanna go

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the economists make some good points. we need safer energy. [announcer:] who's right? they all are. visit powerincooperation.com. back to "hardball" now for the side show. first up show time at the white house. do you think this was something you'd only see once? ♪ i am so in love with you >> president obama welcomed the host of big names to the white house last night including bebe king and mick jagger as part of a blues music celebration for pbs that commemorated black history month. apparently nobody missed the president's performance last

month. let's catch it now. >> come on. >> i heard you singing al green. so you done started something. you got to keep it up now. you can do it. come on. woo! ♪ come on baby don't you let me go ♪ ♪ come on baby don't you want to go ♪ ♪ same old place sweet home chicago ♪ >> you know you're president when mick jagger brings you the microphone. once again the president does his part in helping the music business. let's stay together spiked after the president's rendition last month. earlier this month newt gingrich

blasted president obama's energy policy as antiamerican and in favor of high gas prices. he also offered up this dig at the president's offer for fuel efficient vehicles. >> let me start with the simple premise that most oklahomans will understand. you cannot put a gun rack in a volt. >> well, i said it last night. that is an assanine comment. it still is. >> he said you can't put a gun rack in a volt. i take this to heart because i am in a volt. and as you can see, you can put a gun rack in the back of a volt. >> i guess newt must have taken someone else's word for that one. anyway, back to "hardball" up next new polls show a tight race in the crucial michigan primary now just six days away. we've got the numbers for you coming up next when you come back. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. look at all this stuff for coffee.

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and good evening. i'm tyler mathison with your cnbc market wrap. the dow sheds 27 and the s&p loses 4.5. the nasdaq was off by 15. global shares took a hit after 36 state attorneys general expressed concerns about the text giant's privacy policy. on the economic front existing home sales up 4.3% in january. that was a 1 1/2 year high. pretty good news there. after the closing bell hewlett-packard posted earnings of 92 cents a share. that beat analysts' expectations but revenue fell a touch short. that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." it's six days now before the primaries in michigan and arizona. we have a new msnbc marist poll that has some good news from both leading candidates in michigan. rick santorum has pulled into a statistical tie with mitt romney. romney is at 37. santorum at 35. within the margin of error. in arizona however romney has more breathing room and beat santorum by 16 points. i'd call that breathing room. 43 to santorum's 27. but these numbers tell a big story about how the race is playing out. we'll get into it with nbc political director and chief white house correspondent chuck todd. so great to have you here as always. >> all right. >> let's talk about this race generally. if romney squeaks next week and wins by two or three or four or whatever can he claim victory in michigan? >> i think a win is a win at this point. particularly the romney people will feel like they won a huge victory because they were down 8 or 9 points in their own polling. >> is he coming back because of the dresden style bombing, the carpet bombing?

>> it's not the same. >> 3-1 though. >> this week we're close to 1-1. it's not the same style. this has been harder to do, you know, when you go after somebody on a negative campaign you not only have to have issues but get the character hit. newt, the character hit turned out to be pretty easy because there was plenty of verified -- the character hit has been harder with santorum because the character hit goes at his own personal beliefs. you have to get into the whole social conservative conversation which is not a great place for mitt romney. >> it's a tricky subject. >> it is a trickier hit and that's where they've been trying to go. the thing is santorum has helped him here. the media and asking of this question and santorum's inability to get out of anything. >> you think he is too weird for the voter. >> i think he -- what he has presented himself to be this week is not good for -- he always seems to step in it just when he's getting a lead like he did coming out of iowa. he seems to not know how to sustain a good performance. >> jonathan martin put it well this morning to me on my show when he said, you know, he's

like newt. he thinks he can just talk his way out of -- he wants to explain his position in such detail that at that point you're like oh, too much, man. just talk to me about the manufacturing policy. >> it's all topic selection. politics is what are you talking about? >> you don't want to make people squirm in their seats. contraception, all that makes some squirm in their seats even if they might agree with something you're saying. >> these numbers really tell us a lot about the organization of romney versus the momentum of the other guy if you will. in michigan romney leads santorum among those who voted early not today. not next tuesday. but have already voted 49-26. that is a romney walk away. if you take away the early vote it's basically tied. it's the same pattern in arizona among early voters, people who voted by mail or at the voting booths. how do you vote in arizona? >> an early vote and you can do both by mail and i think there is a drop off. it's one of those western states. 50% have already voted. >> again in arizona mitt romney leads by a wlohopping 30 points but among those who haven't yet voted it is basically tied.

what is it about the voting day voters where rick santorum seems to do so much better? >> part of it is simply romney is banking, he knows who his supporters are and has banked those supporters and in arizona he is helped by what is a modestly higher than normal mormon population. he's worked that organizationally but this is the advantages of being a candidate, being a national front-runner, having the organizations in place two, three, four weeks in advance. >> here is the barn burner and the one nobody is ready for. you'll remember this at dinner tonight. the auto bailout is very popular among all voters in michigan as you might expect. michigan, motown. 63% said it was a good idea. remember that. two-thirds of michigan loves the idea of the bailout. among those likely to vote next tuesday in this primary less popular. i'd say 50% say it's a bad idea. only 42%. >> you say only. i say still 42%. the load bailout is a loaded

term. look at it more the other way. 42% of republican primary voters. >> okay. you're half full. i'm stunned at the fact that most republicans don't like the bailout of the auto industry in michigan. >> it's oo -- you can't say most when it's 50%. you are basically saying it's more of a one to one among republicans. >> explain that. even in michigan. >> part of it is the tea party, the government intervention. you still have a large chunk of the i would say, my guess and i want to dig more into the numbers of who were supporters of this, it would be the older, second and third generation michiganers who are republicans but also have this sort of sentimental view of the auto industry. >> they don't have the libertarian view. in the head-to-head matchup the president leads romney in michigan by 20 points for the general, and beats santorum by a wider margin. in arizona the president still trails 45-40. basically a republican said. i watch these commercials on our network here the ones about reverse mortgages that henry winkler does. and fred thompson did.

isn't it what romney is doing, getting votes in primaries, getting the cash up front and giving away the house. they're losing general election votes by the way they're campaigning. michigan 18 points down to the president. >> absolutely. because when he first stepped into the state it became a conversation about the auto bailout and he immediately was on the defensive. remember, one of the romney arguments was he was the only guy running that could expand the map. because he was going to put michigan in play which hasn't been in play since arguably since bush 88 and you're down 18? i mean -- >> that's what mccain lost by. >> so okay. maybe he can cut it to single digits but if you are not expanding the map then that's resources saved. look -- >> is that the pattern that we've seen in this sort of policy of negative, negative, negative? as they go through the states, is the republican party hurting itself in the way it's -- >> i think the conversation that's been had, more damage has been done the last three weeks in the conversation turning to social issues. that that's what's hurting the

republican -- because you know the polls weren't moving in the president's direction the -- during the january scorched earth campaign that was going on inside the republican party. it's when the conversation switched to religion, contraception, social conservative issues, that suddenly you've seen the republican brand take a hit. i can tell you from what i heard and have seen of battleground state polling everywhere, pretty much across the board. >> i'm going to blow your mind, colleague. >> yes, sir. >> you believe we were out in iowa just last month? >> i know. >> it seems like three years ago. >> i always joke every day is a week. >> the iowa caucuses were just a month ago. what? they seem like a year ago. >> every day is a week, every week is a day. >> well said. thank you chuck todd. up next why doesn't mitt romney talk like the rest of us? this gets into idiom. why can't he just say things like every conservative. why does he say severely conservative. why does he say he likes trees of the same height. we have his debate coach coming up.

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>> i like seeing the -- i like seeing the lakes. i love the lakes. just something very special here. the great lakes. but also all the little inland lakes that dot the parts of michigan. >> i love -- desk. >> bricko, are you just looking at things in the office and saying you love them? >> i love me. >> i love cars. i mean, i grew up totally in love with cars. it used to be in the 1950s and 1960s if you showed me one square foot of almost any part of a car i could tell you what brand it was the model and so forth. now with all the japanese cars i'm not quite so good at it but i still know the american cars pretty well. >> do you really love the lamp or just saying it because you saw it? >> i love lamp. i love lamp. >> i love cars. i love american cars. and long may they rule the world. >> wow. well, a former debate coach for mitt romney and malika henderson and political writer for "the washington post."

she is laughing he is not. why aren't you laughing? everybody else is. >> you know, i think first of all, the comparison is over blown. i think the criticism has been a little over overblown as well. is he the best communicator that we've had running for president? no. is he a good communicator? you know, absolutely, i think so. there's moments where in the debates he's been very, very good. there's also been moments where, like everyone, he stumbled. i think sometimes we forget that these folks are human. they have to go on the stage every day. several times a day. and perform. and so, you know, i think there are going to be times where he stumbles. >> but this is "hardball." you're on "hardball." this isn't "success" magazine here. we're not here to talk about how great everyone is. we're trying to understand what's going on. nia-malika, i want an objective view now. what about this guy -- before you go into it, you think, i'm going to give you material. he has a long record of making awkward comments. take a look at things he's said

over just the past few months. let's listen to you and then back to him. >> we could raise taxes on people. that's -- >> corporations! >> corporations are people, my friend. >> it also means if you don't like what they do, you can fire them. i like being able to fire people that provide services to me. >> i'm not concerned about the very poor. we have a safety net there. if it needs repair, we'll fix it. i'm not concerned about the very rich. they're doing just fine. i was a severely conservative republican governor. >> nia-malika henderson, what makes him talk so different? >> well, i think in some ways, he is different. i mean, he had a very different childhood from most folks. he was born into wealth. became wealthier as he grew up and he does, i think in these clips, he comes across as the nerdiest guy in high school who is always asking the cheerleader out on a date and ends up talking about his calculator or something like that. he can't seem to connect. i will say this. i saw him in salt lake city this

past weekend. and he did seem to connect with those folks. he, of course, worked on the olympic games out there with those folks. and he did become emotional at times and he did seem to be able to connect with them and talk in stories. and that's probably what he needs to do. instead of just, you know, kind of throwing out these lines. i love cars. i love the height of trees. he needs to talk more in stories. if you look at somebody like a bill clinton. after that speech he gave which was a disaster at the dnc and it was very long, he went on with johnny carson and poked fun at himself. you almost think that's something that mitt romney needs to do here because this is -- you know, it's on youtube. folks are laughing. i was in here in the office today. folks are passing by my desk talking about this because it is a very awkward moment that he had there. and it's a part of a string of moments he's had. including the $10,000 bet from the debate stage a couple of weeks ago. >> brett, does he have the politici

problem a lot of politicians have that aren't happy with the microphone. i'm about the same person but a lot of people are the same person on and off the air and then al gore that can anything on the air and terrible off the air. they just can't talk to that camera. does he have that problem when you worked with him, the difference between the guy in the room and the guy on the air? >> i think it could be somewhat of the medium. i think for him, more importantly it's that, at times, he overthinks what he's trying to say. and then that, you know, causes him to parse almost every word because he's trying to make sure everything comes out just right. and when you do that, when you aren't going on instinct, when you are rather overthinking, then that's really the time when things come out wrong. >> does he feel uncomfortable just being himself. if i said let mitt be mitt and just come out and chat about whatever, would he be able to do that well? >> i think so. i think, you know, i think there's been times where if he's telling stories, if he talks about, you know, how he was

raised or where he -- what he's done in his life, those sorts of things, i think that there are times where he's comfortable. i think there's also times where he's responding to questions or in a moment, where he, you know, overthinks and isn't very comfortable. and that's -- >> thanks, brett. thanks so much. i still think that line, the trees are the right height is always going to confound all of us, including you, brett. i saw you on "today." you were great. thank you, nia-malika. let me finish with why the presidential election, according to this quinnipiac poll is so close. it's staggering to me. here's an update on the progress. we're paying for all spill related clean-up costs. bp findings supports independent scientists studying the gulf's environment. thousands of environmental samples have been tested and all beaches and waters are open. and the tourists are back. i was born here, i'm still here and so is bp.

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let me finish tonight with this. what grabbed me today watching msnbc earlier this morning was the potential closeness of this coming national presidential election. for all the better than before economic news, for all the befoonry on the other side, the latest quinnipiac head-to-head polling shows the country has not committed to re-electing this president. they just haven't. and the reason has to be the usual reason of who he is and how he's done. but question of the president's personality and the way he comes across is an open one. there are people who hate him and there are people heavily invested in him. what comes through in this latest poll which has him within the margin of error with romney and santorum is that the middle is still up for grabs. when you look at the great middle of the electorate, barack obama is not yet the people's

choice. i offer this because of the continued 50/50 situation of the general electorate given the relatively good economic news coming across. and again, that mardi gras politics that we're watching on the other side. what other explanation can there be for the continued even standoff between obama and romney and obama and santorum that the lack of voter commitment to the president. the issue of accomplishment is easier to assess. he's still not grabd the allegiance of the voter for the basic reason he's not yet seen as grabbing control of the economy. let's face it. where is the booming growth after all these months and series since the recession snit 8.3% jobless rate something to brag about? what about this 2% or slightly above it growth rate? so we have a problem, chicago. this will be a tough as heck campaign heading down to the last counts in ohio and florida and some other states where the voters will be where the country is now. just about 50/50. so the contest is really still ahead. the president's performance