>> president obama once said he wants everybody in america to go to college, what a snob. >> jobs of the future are increasingly going to those with more than a high school degree. i don't think this should be a partisan issue. >> we have real problems on our college campuses with political correctness. >> these elite snobs. >> college boy. >> good decent men and women that are taught by some liberal college professor. >> the world needs ditch diggers too. the world needs ditch diggers too. we are just one day out from high stakes primaries taking place in arizona and michigan. rick santorum is making his case with social conservatives delivering a robust defense of religion in public life after declaring that universities are

indoctrination mills that cause students to lose their faith. santorum described why john f. kennedy's 1960s speech calling for strict separation of church and state made him want to throw up. >> say that people of faith have no role in the public scare, you bet that makes you throw up. what kind of country do we live in that says only people of nonfaith can come in the public square and make their case. that makes me throw up. >> there you have it. today santorum brought up that issue again saying he favors separation of church and state but only in one direction. >> i'm for separation of kmurj and state. the state has no business telling the church what to do. the separation of church and state what our founders believe in has been turned on its head. now it's the church, people of faith, who have no right to come to the public square and express their points of view. >> he seems to be expressing his

point of view clearly there. mitt romney is making his final pitch as the fiscal conservative in this race and taking on no less than big bird. >> i like pbs. i like big bird and bert and ernie. he's going to have to get used to corn flakes. we're going to stop some of this excessive spending. >> romney's kids are all grown men, but you're never too old for big bird. if romney is riling up viewers of public television, santorum is taking his fight to higher education and calling the president a snob. >> president obama once said he wants everybody in america to go to college. what a snob. i understand why he wants you to go to college, he wants to remake you in his image.

>> some pretty strong words there. when he was asked about it on sunday, he didn't back down. >> we have some real problem on our college campuses with political correctness and on a idealology that is forced upon people that may not agree with the political left doctrine. >> i want to bring in our panel now from washington. karen finney and clarence page. with me in new york, jonathan alter. it's nice to have you all with me. karen, i want to start with you because two of santorum's targets, colleges and universities as well as j.f.k. explain the politics in this one. is this a smart move? is this a smart strategy? >> isn't it hard to remember the republican kennedy gave that speech is because people thought

the pope was a threat to our democracy should he become president. here is what santorum is doing. it's more of the dog whistle politics trying to incite anger and rally the religious conservatives who feel left out or those feel playing this elitism narrative, but it's such -- i won't say the word i want to say, it's so unfair. >> go ahead. >> it's such crap. how about the hearings that we had where pete king didn't allow any real muslim leaders to come in and talk about community, their faith in his hearings on terrorism or how about the fact that part of the tradition is all voices are supposed to be heard and everybody, as the president has said, who wants the chance to go to a four-year college or a two-year college or trade school should have that

opportunity. >> is this suppose to be the interpretation that he wants to legislate from a more religious stand point or is it supposed to be just an interpretation from catholocism? >> i think the hypocrisy of the way he talks about this is he's talking about the christian faith as he see s it. i didn't hear him talk about any of those other faiths or areas where people have been kept out of the public like let's say women on a conversation about contraception. he's trying to appeal to a very small group of religious conservatives and those conservative, he thinks are not going to go for mitt romney. >> jonathan, let's talk about the numbers telling the story as we talk about college. a high school graduate with no

college degree faces an 8.4% unemployment rate. that's with no college what so ever. it's 7.2% for those with some college. 4.2 for those with a college degree. is it snobbery to push for an education system that puts americans to work and putting them into the higher education system. it's just part of the american dream, isn't it? >> it's not just the american dream, in is the only way to compete internationally and maintain our standard of living and create a better life for our children is if larger and larger numbers of people get at least two years of college, at least 14 years of education. the jobs that are available require training. we have this huge skills gap in this country. i know you might go why is he talking about this in this context because what santorum is

doing is extremely destructive to what everybody has to have, mainly a basic understanding of what we need to do. give you a very quick example. in chicago they have a 10% unemployment rate. they have 100,000 job vacancy, but the unemployed there don't have the training to fill the jobs. to get the training they need go to a community college to get some specialized training. that's not a pc institution that's turning them into nonreligious whatever rick santorum wants to say. it's an effort to try to prepare them for the real world. for him to go after that is so disgusting and so contrary what's in the best interest of the country and getting us prepared for the future. >> clarence, the president responded today. listen to this. >> when i speak about higher

education, we're not just talking about a four-year degree. we're talking about somebody going to a community college and getting trained for that manufacturing job that now is requiring somebody walking through the door handling a million dollar piece of equipment. we all want americans getting those jobs of the future. >> clarence, the president not directly saying rick santorum's name, but obviously, it is it a direct toss back at him and comments about the president being a snob for encouraging a four-year degree but the president making the distinction saying he is a strong proponent for education beyond high school. a minimum of having high school and going on the college and beyond that. is the conversation going to change on this point now that the president has spoken back to level the playing field? >> i don't think the conversation is going to change because rick santorum is playing to his base inside of base.

it's the santorum base, heavily religious oriented inside the republican base. the two words i have to describe what rick santorum said is dangerous nonsense. it's nonsense because he deliberately misquoted president obama. he never said he wanted everyone to go to college. he said he wanted to open up opportunities. opportunities for everyone to go to college that wanted to go. he called for more job training the, more community college funds for people who work with their hands as rick santorum says. he knows that. he himself has two degrees already from penn state where the only indoctrination was in the school of joe paterno. there's a little effort to play to the populous by making out obama to be this aloof guy that wants to put everybody into the

classrooms. upward mobility is falling behind countries. >> karen, you wanted to jump? >> i really resent what santorum is trying to do. the republicans have been accused democrats of playing class warfare. if you look at what they have been doing how they went after mitt romney and mitt romney who can't help tell us how rich and how many cadillacs he has but now you have santorum using this idea about college. i think the words are really important. it's not just when he talked about college and religious liberty in a divisive way to pit one group against the other. it's again thp idea that we should have multiple pathways for people to be successful, to be healthy, to be free in this country, and instead, he is really twisting it into a very

divisive, anti-if you aspear for something bigger than there's something wrong with you and thst an elitist. >> it's really politically stupid of him. in the last ten days he's against sex, college and he's against j.f.k. who remains one of our most popular presidents. what this is all doing and mitt romney beating up on big bird, as if that's going to balance the budget, what is this doing? it's driving independents back into the obama column. if you're in some degree of despair, here your best chance of winning this next presidential election, winning independents and it's going out the window because the clowns are talking about things so far outside the mainstream of american political discourse they are just committing suicide for the republican party. >> we'll see how everything goes

tomorrow when we see how the people in michigan and arizona come out. thanks so much. appreciate your time. stay with us. much more ahead. >> maybe i should just do all the talking and let him stand here and watch me. identify also decided no more dates. if we're going to do another debate, he's going to sit in the audience and watch me. that will be it. >> i love cars. i love american cars. ♪ every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business, it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $6.4 billion in new credit to small businesses across the country last year. because the more we help them,

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republican governor jan brewer cannot stick her finger in the president's face. you may remember the arizona governor's infamous encounter on

the tarmac last month with the president. sunday it was a much different finger she extepdsed. the governor snubbed the white house dinner. she cited other commitments and said no disrespect is intended. joining us is the governor of massachusetts who is one of the co-chairs for the president's re-election campaign. nice to have you with us. >> thank you. >> governor brewer said she didn't mean any disrespect by this but in this current climate, do you buy that? >> i'll take her at her word. i know the president and first lady offer a gracious invitation. i think the public everywhere doesn't want our leaders to be small. >> does this get the governor in

the press again? showing the fact that the opposing sides can't meet in the middle and especially that picture telling a thousands words. >> do you think the president impose more disrespect or is this pretty status quo? >> i think it's been astonishing to see division itself at the top of the republican party agenda. that was announced early in this president's term. i think one other time in our history divisioned itself at the top of a political agenerjegend that was a disaster. i think when you consider the head winds this president has faced, the fact he's delivered 3.7 million private sector jobs, 23 straight months of private sector job growth, saved the auto industry from extinction,

the financial industry from self-destruction and the american economy overall from depression, ending one war, winding down another, don't ask, don't tell has ended. it's remarkable. health care for everyone at 90 years of trying. with a congress that will work with him and political leadership across the spectrum who will work to solve real problems in people's live, in a second term, i think we will see greater results. >> americans are still left wondering what have you done for me lately? let's talk about the numbers. his approval rating is two points shy of his disapproval rating. you have less than nine months to get this election. >> i think the polls are benchmark, but they are not that important for me. i'm relatively new to the political world. i've seen all kinds of polls

about this president in my own performance at different times. the key is being out and telling the story to the american people and listening to them. this president listens hard. he cares about people's ability to lift themselves up and he's shown that in his poli choices. i think the campaign really gives him a chance and all of us a chance not only to talk about the extraordinary record but his division for tomorrow. >> it's nice to see you. >> thank you. stay with us. much more when we come right back. >> we have some real problems on our college campuses with political correctness, with an idealology that's forced upon people may not agree with the political correct left doctrine. >> thank you, sir. may i have another? ♪ [ kyle ] my bad.

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welcome back. breaking news out of ohio at this hour where a gunman opened fire inside a high school killing one student, wounding four others. the suspect, who classmates say had been bullied, was arrested not far from the scene of chardon high school. kevin tibbles is on the scene. we got to confirmation at high noon that the school lost one of the students that was injured. what more did we learn about what took place and is shooter in custody? >> reporter: the student has succumb to his injuries this morning. some of them were having breakfast in the cafeteria when this one student got up and

started shooting off a handgun in the cafeteria hitting several students. five in all were hit. he left the cafeteria and started roaming the school. interestingly enough, a couple of teachers chased the gunman out of school. he left the school without shooting at them and was apprehended in the street. all of this took place as 9-1-1 calls were going into the police here. by the time the police came, the gunman left the school and apprehended without incident on the streets here of this relatively quiet neighborhood outside of cleveland. as you just said, thomas, unfortunately, tragically, one of the students has died from the injuries incured. >> have investigators talked about a possible motive or whether or not certain students were targeted? we had officials saying the students were found in three different location where is they were suffering from their

injuries. it seemed the shooter was able to maneuver through the school. >> reporter: yes. you could say that in the beginning. we must add that when the warnings went out, the teachers and the staff here sort of herded the kids in the right directions to those parts of the school that have been designated safe areas for them. a lot of students went in. a lot of students said they had no idea what was going on. they were just being told to go to these safe areas. it was only when their parents started texting them in these areas that they were finding out what was going on in the school. we have heard words, the word bullying has been used. i think the fbi and the authorities are inside trying to determine what exactly drove this young man to do what he is accused of doing here this morning at this high school. >> kevin tibbles, thank you.

stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. >> say that people of faith have no role in the public scare, you bet that makes you throw up. what kind of country that we live in that says only people of nonfaith can come in the square and make their case? ♪ blap but what's even more surprising is that brushing alone isn't enough to keep it clean. fortunately, you've got listerine. unlike brushing which misses 75% of your mouth, listerine cleans virtually your entire mouth. so what are you waiting for? it's time to take your mouth to a whole new level of health. listerine... power to your mouth.

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♪ oooh, my turn. ♪ she was in paris, but we talked for hours... everyone else buzzed about the band. there's a wireless mind inside all of us. so, where to next? ♪ the separation of church and state to a couple of nascar dads. here are today's top lines recap. >> i'm planning on winning here in michigan and arizona. >> i'm sure governor romney thought he would have to spend $20 and easily cruise to victory. >> a couple of things i like best, cars and sports. >> this is the perfect car for me. hang back there for as long as you can, let all the folks in front of you crash and burn. >> i drive a mustang and chevy pickup truck.

ann drives a couple of cadillacs. >> he's going to sit in the audience and watch me. >> i can't be perfect. >> governor romney has a long and strong reputation of voting on all sides of almost every single issue. >> if people think there's something wrong with being successful in america, then they better vote for the other guy. >> i'd love someone to ask that question. >> senator santorum is sort of desperate right now. >> constitution is very clear on the separation of church and state. i happen to believe i want represents the happiest arrangement for the organization of a society. >> people of faith have no role in the public square, you bet makes me through up. >> i got to go to college. i got to. >> some people have incredible gifts with their hands. >> we're not just talking about a four-year degree. talking about getting trained for that manufacturing job. >> i encourage my kids to get higher education, but we should not look down our nose at aptd

say they are less. >> i don't think the president is a snob for saying that. >> i was docked for my conservative views. >> they have the sage raging hormones to get trashed and widely out of control. >> good decent men and women that aren't taught by some liberal college professor. >> let's get to our panel for this afternoon. we've had two caddy shack clips in this show. i want to say how proud i am of that. la ladies it's nice to have you here. these attacks on political correctness in university, it's not terribly new. with santorum going out on a limb talking about the president being a job for trying to promote higher education, part of the american dream, the fact that these colleges and universities are indoctrination mills. does he have something against

higher education as a person who went to undergraduate and went to law school and has all these higher degrees of education? >> not only that and served as a united states senator. >> you think he would have gotten there if he hasn't gone to so much school? >> i don't think there's many. rick santorum is trying to speak to a certain kind of voter. he's trying to speak lower middle class and working class white voters. they think they are better than you. you can sum his entire campaign with that phrase. they think they are better than you. barack obama think they are better than you. democrats think they are better than you. secular people they they are better than you, and i understand you. that's his whole message. >> isn't it a little bit insulting to young adults to suggest if they go any further in their education after high school, they're going to lose the core of their faith?

speaking specifically to the catholic church, don't they do enough to drive their own people out of the pews, they don't need the college university to do it for them. >> he needs to trust more in the pool of the religious teachings he subscribes to. he managed to get through without losing his faith. the last president that santorum served under was president george w. bush and he talked about the soft bigotry of low expectations. some of our kids don't deserve or aren't good enough to go to college. if college isn't for you, that's fine. it's another thing to say some of our kids just really aren't there and not meant for college. in you look at the fact that in 2010, the average earnings for a college grad were $51,000 a year versus a high school grad, $31,000 a year.

there's a huge earnings gap, and we need to recognize in today's modern economy if you're not getting some sort of higher ed, whether it's four year, two year or trade school, you're being left behind. >> i'm going on my own recollections because my mom is like you're going to college. i'm sending you to college because i want you to have a better education than me. it's part of the american dream. you want your kids to prosper and do better than you. let's talk about mitt romney because he's trying to make this case as a red blooded conservative going for the nascar fans. he was asked if he follows nascar. romney's answer, not as close as some of the most ardent fans, but i have great friends that are team owners. is it really going to flush out his campaign to see him lose his ohm state. >> i don't think the romney

robot has been programmed to talk to the people. he said he loved sport, not sports sport. he's just off base from speaking like a normal person. i think in michigan that being one of his home states, he has a few, that isn't going to help him. he's got the money. he probably has half of his vote already banked. because he has that strong operation on the ground, i think he will still do fine. if it was just on personality, i think that's the reason that santorum is talking the way he is. he's trying to talk to the regular lunch pail guy because he knows romney can't. >> i find her much more appe appealing. it's not a good sign when his surrogates are having to defend him so much. it seems like he's trying so

hard to relate to ordinary that it's backfiring, and he's making all these bizarre gaffes. it reminds me when sarah palin was trying to convince us when she had foreign policy chops and said she can see russia from her house. it's like really i can relate to you. it's that sam situation. >> thank you. a programming note, don't my bill maher sitting down with chris matthews. stay with us. [ male announcer ] this is lois.

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that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. newt gingrich is known for a lot of out there ideas, but nothing compares to his vision of americans in space.

>> by the end of my second term, we will have the first permanent base on the moon, and it will be american. we will have commercial near earth activities that include science, tourism and manufacturing. >> sounds crazy, right? maybe not. in his book "space chronicles" ast astrophsists joins me. it's good to have you here. >> thanks. >> let's start with beginninewt gingrich. some will say it's nutty. and some will say he's a visionary. >> consider that this concept of

get a base on the moon, that's not more ambitious than john kennedy saying let's walk on the moon before the end of the decade. when john kennedy said let's walk on the moon, we didn't have vehicle that killed the astronaut to try to launch it. it's a far greater ambitious concept than anything newt gingrich has put on the table. he's not out of it. he's in a long line of people that have ambition. >> big ideas. nothing wrong with big vision. as we look what the nasa has done, they have put human space flight on hold for now and may not see it moving forward for another decade. the that a good idea given the financial troubles, the investment of money it would take to move an idea like that forward? >> that's the common concern because nasa money is quite visible until you look at how

small it is in the federal budget. it's half a penny on the dollar. you get that the for half a penny on the dollar. social programs and education, the united states spends 50 times nasa's budget on social programs and education. to sigh why are we spending money up there and not down here, we are spending money down here. that argument doesn't fly. the real question is if we do double nasa's budget to a penny on the dollar, what consequence does that have? i assert it would change the culture in which we think about the value and role of science and technology on our lives. there will be spin offs and jobs related to it, but you will create a shift in the state of mind of people where they will say, hey, we are dreaming about tomorrow again. people who bring tomorrow into the present are the technologist, scientists and

engineers. those innovations are what drives tomorrow economies. such an investment would be an insurance policy for what the economic stability of the nation will be going forward. >> when we talk about the fact of the money maybe not adding up and the figures don't fly in terms of what we're spending in space flight, what really doesn't fly is the shuttle program. we don't have it anymore. >> literally not flying. hitching a ride with -- paying for the ride with the russians. >> how would a program and that type of lofty goal of colonizing the moon move forward. you say it's a job creator. >> moneys go to make that goal happen in the districts where nasa functions such as where newt was giving his speech. he's going to say things that appeal to that audience. how do you get that to appeal to

the country? i assert once you change the state of mind of the nation -- we remember back in the 1960s, you're too young, i remember. back in the '60s, all of this was coincidence with this dreams going forward. that's the kind of country i grew up in. >> i drank tang as a kid. i had that as a kid. for those that say the money is better spent down here and doing programs for the country as opposed to thinking about where we're going. >> you put a band aid on a problem or get a fundamental solution going to prevent the problem from taking place in the first place. >> remind us about the advances are in every day life that we take for granted. >> that's an easy case to make. one of the larger case, the stability of our economy and how many people think about

inventing tomorrow are in your midst. spin off, yeah. the precision of lasik surgery comes to us because of the docking software that connected the space shuttle to the space station. you wake up in the morning, there's a map of storm that's about to hit your city. that's a satellite took that picture. when we went to the moon with the premise of discovering the moon, we looked back and discovered earth for the first time. so many environmental steps were taken to protect earth from 1968 to 1973. how do you put a price tag on that? what's the universe worth to you? >> nice to see you. stay with us. we're back with much more after this. ♪

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what might turn tout be the greatest challenge for the u.s., the taliban is capitalizing on this intense outrage after last week's unintentional burning of the koran. nine people are dead after a suicide attack. the taliban is claiming to have try to hit a u.s. base from inside. the militants say they were able

to get a cook to lace coffee with fruit and bleach. no one was hurt the levels may have been an accident. regardless, it is adding to antiwestern rally affecting that region. joining me is a professor from the london school of economics. professor, it's nice to have you here. as we hear bo has been taking a lot of heat for apologizing about the koran burning incident from the republican side, from the presidential hopeful that is of rick santorum. what do you think it says to the overall conversation when we have the president making this apology, but him getting flak from inside the u.s. for that taking place and saying that shows our weakness? >> it tells me, thomas, how much ignorance there is among the top elite of the republican party

truly. and the incident itself reflects a great deal of how little we know about afghanistan after being involved in the country for many, many years. the burning of the koran is very important, thomas. as you know, the koran has a very special place in muslims' hearts. the citation of the koran invokes the spirit of god, the real presence of god. so it's a very special for muslims. let me put it this way. i think the burning of the koran is a spark. it's a spark that triggers the rage and the anger among people in afghanistan. people are fed up with their way of life. dismal economic conditions. the security is horrible. there's deep ail nation with the american military presence in afghanistan. this is not just the first incident. many people in afghanistan just

seven days ago, the nato attack killed seven children. a few days before the killing of children in afghanistan, you have some american soldiers j y urinating of the corpse of the tol ban. the taliban. the incidents reflect the pe rils of foreign intervention. it tells you how difficult the mission has been. >> as we look at the violence putting pressure on the american government to pull out of afghanistan, earlier than planned, is that such good advice? or is it wiser to stay the course? >> well, i think, thomas, president obama has already accelerated the american exit strategy to 2014. i believe the sooner, the better. first of all, i don't think there's a win strategy in afghanistan.

i don't think there's any hope of nation building in afghanistan. i think more and more people are people alienated from the american presence. i doubt president obama will be able to expedite the presence of american forces in this election year. you can imagine what the republican candidates would say. they would try to portray the president as weak, which is basically effect a surge of american forces. he was the one to break the backbone of the al qaeda organization on the pakistan and afghanistan border. yet the republican presidential candidates keep accusing the president of being weak on foreign policy. >> professor, nice to see you today. thank you. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. i'm done.

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in less than 24 hours until the michigan primary. polls place mitt romney and rick santorum in a dead heat. john horwood is in detroit. it's nice to see you. explain to us. rick santorum and mitt romney have made their share of controversial statements as we have been watching all of this. but what does it mean leading up to tomorrow and how it's going to play out? >> well, remember, thomas, they are appealing to different audiences. rick santorum who said he doesn't believe in absolute separation of church and state is relying on the conservative christians and evangelicals. mitt romney is looking more for the suburb vote. outside here in metro detroit about half the vote is in the detroit area. we have a close rate. mitt romney has taken the lead in some late polls, but depending on turnout, some isn't as good in that area.

that's what rick santorum is counting on. >> organization matters in michigan as you're pointing out. i want to remind our viewers. most of the 30 dell grates up for grabs have to be won district by district. correct? >> exactly. and organizational advantage has helped mitt romney. he's done very well in some of the absentee voting to the extent that has been measured. he has a greater ability with his advertising. he has not a huge edge, but a slight edge over santorum. also with his organization to try to compensate for whatever defect he has in not inspiring enthusiasm. >> the enthusiasm on the street. what are people saying? if anything? >> well, i think they are watching for what happens in the last 24 hours. and hearing all those robo calls and advertisements they are getting from both campaigns. >> we'll see how it all cracks

out. we're in the thick of it. john horwood, thank you. >> you bet. >> thanks for watching. we appreciate your time. dylan ratigan is here to take us forward. >> just cleaning up my tie. after being on the road, i don't shave all weekend. >> the tie looks good though. the road has done no worse. >> you wouldn't know, would you? thank you. we'll begin right now. good monday afternoon. i'm dylan ratigan. back in new york after a couple months on the road. we'll be here for a few weeks to gather ourselves for the spring. today the headline is fuel for the fire. another night of protests in afghanistan. seven days after afghan workers found copies of is