so they are completely out of touch. >> congress woman debbie wasserman-schultz, i'm sorry we ran out of time. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. are the republicans blowing it? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, bully pulpit. maybe both of the top two republican candidates right now are like the lead character in "the artist." better off seen, but not heard. rick santorum, not only did he criticize the concept of the separation between church and state, he said jack kennedy's famous 1960s speech on the subject of protestant ministers made him one to throw up. throw up. then he called president obama a snob for focusing on higher education.

this may be great gut conservative politics, but what are we talking about in terms of running for president? then there's mitt romney who can't seem to get out of his own way. yesterday he was asked whether he follows nascar. his answer, not as closely as some of its most ardent fans, but i have friends who are nascar team owners. that doesn't help. he is trying to be a man of the people. the trouble is those people are all rich. and the killings and riots in afghanistan in the wake of burning of korans has a lot of americans asking, is this time to get out of there? is this effort even worth it? who is the best guest to have when republicans are getting themselves into deep doo-doo? bill maher. he's going to join us tonight. and remember i mentioned that perhaps the gop candidates might be better off like silent movie stars? seen but not heard. watch this tonight. we'll have a show called "mitt, better off mute."

this is going to a riot. that's in the side show. we begin with rick santorum's criticism of college, kennedy, and the separation of church and state. why not throw that in? john feehery for the defense. he's a republican consultant madly in love with rick santorum. and eugene robinson, who is an analyst. every once in a while these guys say something that no one is willing to defend. i want to test you. yesterday in an interview with george stephanopoulos, rick santorum explained why kennedy's speech makes him want to throw up. let's watch what he actually said. >> i don't believe in an america where the separation of church and state is absolute. the idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely

antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country. to say that people of faith have no role in the public square? you bet that makes you throw up. >> wow. in september of 1960, many of us remember john kennedy traveled to houston to speak to the greater houston ministerial association. he argued that the catholic church would not dictate his presidency. let's watch a bit of that historic speech. >> it is apparently necessary for me to state once again. not what kind of church i believe in, for that should be important only to me, but what kind of america i believe in. i believe in an america where the separation of church and state is absolute. where no catholic could tell the president should he be catholic how to act and no protestant minister would tell his people how to vote. >> wow.

john, that was pretty unexceptional. he made the statement that the bishops of the day, there was a lot of fear of catholic bishops in those days, would not be his bosses. certainly the pope would not be. did he say something wrong? is santorum right here? should the bishops give the order to catholic politicians. >> the first amendment protects religion. i don't know how many ways we have to say this. mitt romney gave a speech more like jack kennedy's speech he would be in better shape in the polls. i think rick santorum is wrong on this. the reason religion flourishes in america is because it is protected from the government. i wish rick santorum -- >> how many states would jack kennedy have gotten if he gave a rick santorum speech back in '60? >> i think massachusetts. >> we laugh because it would have been an absurd statement to say. >> it would be absurd. and what santorum is doing -- >> issy he a theocrat?

>> i'm sorry to interrupt you. pulitzer prize winner, is he a theocrat? does he believe churches should run states? >> i think he is. i think that's what he believes deep down. i think that's obviously dangerous for this country. that's not who we are. >> let's take a look. here's what's strange about it. let's talk to politics. let's go to our strength. here's the story. for him to beat the elite guy, romney, who we all know is well bred, moneyed and all that. the country club. we know the whole story. the only way to beat him is to submarine him. go for the blue collar, the cloth coat republicans. not the mink coat republicans. then the very people, the reagan democrats, conservative republicans, who vote forward jack kennedy, probably, a lot of them, why is he trashing kennedy? >> when rick santorum was talking about manufacturing jobs, when he had his plan to help blue-collar people, the other thing talking about education, this idea that people in the blue-collar don't have aspirations to go to college is insane. >> i know he's talking about --

by the way, there's a great role out there for people of high skills. we need them to fix cars, build cars, we need engineers. people that work with their hands n get things fixed. here it is on saturday. rick santorum ridiculed president obama's education policy by calling the president a snob. let's watch. >> president obama once said he wants everybody in america to go to college. what a snob. there are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor that tried to indoctrinate them. oh, i understand why he wants you to go to college. he wants to remake you in his image. >> there's a conspiracy theory. >> that's a conspiracy theory. >> what is he saying? >> who is a snob? he's sending his kids to college. it's good enough for him. >> but he kept them away from

school. >> let me try to be the devil's advocate. >> you know what the unemployment rate is -- >> among college graduates? >> 4.4%. for those who have high school but no college, it's 9.5%. do the math. >> it's better to go to college. >> go to college. doesn't it enrich your life? he has an undergraduate degree. he has a law degree. he has an mba. my goodness. he survived the indoctrination. >> you know what i'd like to do? i love nothing better than to go to college graduations and speak at the graduation and see the parents whose first -- whose kids are the first in their family to go to college. a lot of them african-americans. and it is the most exciting day in the family's history to have those first kids go to college. and here he is saying, okay, you parents that want your kids to be the first of your family to go to college, you're snobs. what is he talking about? >> i guess i'm with the snob.

i think it's still an aspirational thing. >> by the way, the immigrants, the minute they get off the boat, whether from vietnam or south korea. first thing, get the kid in the best school. >> if i were attacking president obama on college education, i would say he's done nothing to deal with the cost of that college education. the costs are out of control and people in blue-collar families can't afford it. that's where i would attack him. i wouldn't attack the idea to go to college. it's insane. >> translate. you know the republican psyche. he has to beat one guy. the elitist. the guy who has nascar owners as buddies. the guy that owns two cadillacs for his wife. fine. he's rich. how do you beat the guy who is rich? >> this is not how you do it. you talk about manufacturing jobs and you talk about why the cost of college education is too high and how you help the middle class. >> you can only be -- if you say something like that, you can only be trying to talk to people

who themselves did not go to college, right? >> right. >> so you're going to tell them that they shouldn't wish that for their children? >> remember george wallace who talked about the bureaucrats with their peanut butter sandwiches? and their attache cases. remember that anti-elitism? we got the point. you're from washington. you're no good. but this idea of anti-intellectual. w. used to do this. >> he was pro-college. he was also improving schools. >> then he hung out with the wrong kind. >> there's always been a huge strain in politics. all politics. >> okay. explain this. explain the anti-intellectualism. >> attack the universities. attack the pointy heads. frankly, there's a lot of washington, wall street, all these people who thought they knew what they were doing and all of a sudden, the country has gone off the wrong track because these smart people have screwed things up. i get that. >> did your dad say where did

you learn that? i used to get this all the time. where did you learn that? >> i didn't. >> i think a lot of people are suspicious. >> my dad is a loyola guy. he would lecture me on the finer things. >> thank you. holy cross all the way here. thank you, gene robinson. this guy may be blowing it, but i still think he might pull it out tomorrow. coming up in 20 minutes, bill maher is going to be here. it's like the drive-in movies. french fries. bill maher is coming. might want to get a large coke. popcorn. get to the snack bar. missteps by mitt romney rick santorum, bill is going to be here to enjoy them. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] that. right there -- reminds you why you fell in love with her in the first place. and why you still feel the same. but your erectile dysfunction -- that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet

approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. the michigan and arizona primaries are tomorrow. and super tuesday is only a week ahead from tuesday. we have new poll numbers from super tuesday states. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. in ohio, a new quinnipiac poll

finds rick santorum leading among likely republican voters, 36-29. he had a bigger lead. in tennessee santorum leads romney 33-17. in a new poll in georgia, newt gingrich has a 13-point lead in the channel 2 landmark poll. newt is at 38. romney is further back at 19. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." the republican nomination fight appears to be having an unintended consequence. it makes obama look better every single day. that's what we can take away from new poll numbers from the politico battleground poll. the president's approval rating is at 53%. that's pretty good. up since november and above the important 50% threshold. in a head to head matchup with the republicans, he beats romney by ten points. 53-43. he beats santorum by the same

amount. so these are real developments. it's good news for the white house. bad news for the republican party per se. mark halperin is "time" magazine editor at large and senior political adviser. and david corn is an msnbc political analyst. thank you for joining us. i love to get you on when we look at the big picture here. we have obama getting more popular. we're getting into the personal popularity in a moment. he's edging significantly above the 50% mark. in a significant poll here. and also shifting to what may be moving into a double-digit lead over the strongest candidate for november, most people think, romney. what's going on? >> well, the republican nomination fight is hurting the republican brand. the republican party. the president's handled his own role in most things pretty well. there's a snapshot, chris. if the republican nominee is determined in march, april, may, june or maybe not until the convention if the eventual nominee handles things well, we're back to 200 electoral

votes each side. so good news for the president today. >> what do you base that? i'm with you on that but you're better at explaining it. why is it basically if they get their act together eventually still a 50/50 country? >> because there's still a lot about the president's record that if they execute well can go after. as well as the president is doing, go to the electoral college, which is how this is decided. there's few states that senator mccain won that the president has a good chance to win. arizona is one. after that, it's a big drop-off. if the republican nominee emerges from the contest, whatever month it is, handling him or herself well, then they -- i think they get back to basically those 200 electoral votes and can build off that. i think you'd hear the same description of what's likely to happen in chicago. if the republican nominee handles it poorly, i think the president's numbers will really help him to get a bigger win than four years ago. >> the fundamentals are even steven.

they have to get competent by november. you buy that? >> i do. gas can still hit $6 a gallon. unemployment is still high. i mean romney should be up by 20 points given those circumstances on those fundamentals. but yet the campaign has been awful for him and the whole republican brand. he's falling behind. the risk here for the republicans is that there's no opportunity to bounce back later. the impressions being formed are close to indelible. if you look at the independent numbers in this poll, 4 9-27 in favor of barack obama over mitt romney. the gulf is getting wider. it's getting larger. the deeper it gets, the harder it will be for romney. or whoever the republican is to bounce back. >> real quickly, is that true for women voters who have been on the defensive with this republican policy raid on them. they are really offended by the way republicans have been

talking about issues important to them. >> i think women voters, hispanic voters, younger voters. the republican party is in the process of trying to pick a nominee. i think maybe doing irreparable harm to the party this year and to some extent, longer term. but a strong nominee who skillfully starts to deal with these issues pretty soon and emerges strong has a chance to come back. but the trajectory they are on with independents and women and hispanics, it's going to make it mathematically impossible. maybe not to be blown out, but to get an electoral college majority. >> let me show you some things. this weekend mitt romney tried to burnish his regular guy credentials by talking about the daytona 500. but when asked if he followed nascar, he blue his average guy cover. let's listen to his own words. >> not as closely as some of the most ardent fans, but i have some great friends who that are nascar team owners.

>> david, he keeps talking like he's in a board room. >> he keeps talking like he's a one percenter. the ifs he points out are becoming bigger and bigger. if there's a competent republican. if mitt romney can get his act together. every chance he's had in the last few months to get something right, whether it's his taxes or talking about nascar, he keeps blowing it. even if he gets clear of the santorum tar pit, he's still going to be burdened by his own baggage. that's the wong one thing he can't escape. >> he keeps doing this over and over again. this whole question, does he have the chops? romney who keeps talking about 1%. he talks like he's the rich guy. talks about the very poor. talks about the cars. rich people talk among themselves. he didn't know he's talking to a country that's 99%. >> it's a total cheap shot to go after romney on that nascar thing. i love nfl football because i

used to go out with jack cancook on his yacht. fantastic times out there. great hors d'oeuvres. >> i hope he runs your office. >> so dry, i almost fell for that. it's a mind-set we now can't say is accidental. nor can we say he's going to stop it. that he's learned his lesson. there's too many of them. may not keep him from getting elected president but through the media filter, it's lethal. it takes up so much space in the narrative. he's not going on the tonight show or -- >> he refuses to go on "meet the press." >> that wouldn't replace the narrative. he needs to erase the narrative with something else. if he's going to say these types of things and reflect that mind-set from now through november if he's the nominee, it's going to make it harder for him to be elected. there's no question. >> imagine the ads when the obama super pacs going into november over and over again pointing out his plutocratic mentality of only the elite.

let's talk about tomorrow with romney. romney at 39%, santorum at 37%. what do you make of this tomorrow? we just did a poll among our producers. just because i always root for the underdog. almost always. even tomorrow. i want the underdog to win for many reasons. i want this to be a race. is there a good chance that the voters who show up will be the christian conservative people who like everything about rick santorum that we sort of don't? or criticize as bad politics. >> you mean the outcome in michigan? >> yeah. is there a decent chance santorum can pull it out? >> i'm going with my head says romney should win this but santorum will win this. i still think the size of crowds and the intensity of his crowds, the message he's driving appeals to that base. if you made any bet, i'd bet on santorum, but logic suggests romney should win.

>> you do enthuse me because mark is more analytical. i'm a gut person. because i love a really good show. i think this country benefits so much from this debate. i think the more this goes on, the better it is for our country. we're getting a good look at mitt romney. mitt romney that it can't hide. and santorum is exposing the cultural belly of this party. we ought to understand it if we're going to put a republican back in the white house. >> this has been a much more revealing race than anybody anticipated in the beginning. it's certainly clear that his voters are more motivated. he's been to northern michigan finding these pockets of conservative voters who feel resentment towards elites. and buy everything he's selling. the people who come up for romney -- >> what scares you more. you can't answer this, mark, because you are very analytical, but what scares you more? the belly republican party which is so theocratic or the intellectual superiority, the money, plutocratic mentality of romney? which scares you, david corn, more? >> this is the heart or stomach.

>> what scares you more? >> religious wildness or -- >> i think the social conservatives are the type that rick santorum is speaking to gain power, they will probably do more damage than the plutocrats that mitt romney represents. but it's a tossup. >> i think the mentality is more frightening than the gut. thank you, mark halperin for your great analysis. thank you, david corn. up next, just like "the artist," the movie that won last night after about five or six hours, mitt romney might be better off seen but not heard. we have a great satire. this is worthy of the old days. this guy is "the artist." he can't talk, but he looks good. right after the side show, we have bill maher, our star coming on tonight. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪

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back to "hardball." now for a big sideshow tonight. first up, the sound of silence. this just premiered on this weekend's the chris matthews show. it's a political version of "the artist." the movie which won best picture last night. here's the trailer. >> i love this state. it seems right here.

the trees are the right height. [ laughter ] >> mitt better off mute. that's a tough one. he was at it again this weekend, talking about having the right friends. people who own nascar teams. don't ride in those cars. next up, a friend in the cabinet. secretary of state hillary clinton is getting some flak for telling a group of students in tunisia that president obama will be re-elected and not to pay attention to what some have said on the campaign trail. she's managed to stay largely above the fray of election politics. but apparently, there are times. here's clinton explaining it all on cnn.

>> probably my enthusiasm for the president got a little out of hand. >> no political juices flowing? >> i tried to dampen them down and tried to have them taken out. blood transfusion, but occasionally they rear their heads. >> that's what hillary is like when you meet her. she's very likable. does that mean she's considering a full re-entry into politics? running after all this is over? that's still a no she says. up next, the one and only bill maher joins us from los angeles. he has plenty of material from rick santorum's latest and mitt romney's latest. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

i would like to tonight announce a donation to the obama super pac which has the unfortunate tongue twister name "priority usa action." i know. it was named by borat. but tonight i would like to give that pac $1 million.

this is the wisest investment i think i could make on a selfish level. because i'll tell you something, folks, who i know look at these republican clowns and think it's in the bag. no, it's not. obama could lose. >> well, well said by a smart man as well as a funny man. that's bill maher announcing he's donated $1 million to president obama's super pac, which has no relation to the president. it's no joke. bill maher joins us from l.a. this is going to be remembered -- are you going to be watching how much money they collect for that pac to know what percentage you own of that thing? >> you talking to me? >> yeah, i'm talking to you. >> i think at the moment, it's probably too big a percentage. i was trying to throw a snowball to create an avalanche and let the liberals who do think this is already in the bag, probably

because like me they watch "hardball" and see what idiots these republicans are, but that's not how the whole country sees it. i promise you when it comes to election night, it's going to be neck and neck. it's going to be a tight race. >> tell me why you think that. that's what we just heard mark halperin say. what we hear other people say. despite the president being up by ten points over romney now, by moving up above 50% in favorability. up to 53% now. and it's now late february. why do you think it will be different in november? >> well, one reason is because of this issue of money. because obama had a giant money advantage last time because the most anybody could give was $2,300. now sheldon adelson talks about giving $100 million. the game has changed from small contributions to large contributions in the millions. the many millions. he's going to have, i think, a tremendous financial disadvantage. that's one. the other reason is because this country is divided.

i talk about the republican bubble that they live in, but there's a bit of a liberal bubble, too. they hear rick santorum talking about the father of lies and how college is bad and they think these people are nuts. but half the country doesn't think it's nuts. on election night, i bet you it will be a tight race. >> how do you get that -- you do have a bigger world view than a lot of people in left, right or center. how do you keep it? is it going on the road, do you feel it? your audience is pretty liberal. it's fabulous, but it's a liberal audience. how do you find that other audience and connect with them? >> well, i don't really want to connect with them. >> i mean find out they are there. count them. let's put it that way. >> yeah, i mean, you're right. i'm on the road quite a bit. i do a lot of standup dates around the country. i'm going to huntsville, alabama, on march 3rd. then i'm going to san antonio. these are not liberal places. even though the liberal comes

out to my show at the auditorium or the theater that i'm in, when you're in airports, bars, wherever you are, you talk and see people. there's a whole different -- i mean i talked to tim tebow last night. it was thrilling. at the vanity fair party after the oscars. if you can't talk to tebow and come away with a different point of view, you're not listening. >> what is -- for our progressives and liberals watching the show, what is the legitimate if there is one, bitch against obama. what is it they have deepest besides the ethnic thing? is there something about obama that you think is going to drive them into the voting booth no matter what happens between now and november? >> yes, chris, he's a muslim socialist out to destroy america. haven't you heard that? >> but they are the crazies. >> this is the bubble they live in. it's very hard to get actual facts into this impermeable membrane.

they think obama -- they are running against a fictional president. a president who has slashed defense, who has raised taxes, who goes around the world apologizing to different countries, who coddles terrorists. all of which, of course, never happened. but that's who they think the president is. and it's very, very hard. that's why we have this bubble we built on this show to physically illustrate this. >> let's talk about possible cracks in that bubble. this guy caught bin laden in one of the most interesting -- almost alexander mccleon way. he did it brilliantly. he got bin laden. they got him killed in the action, which is the neatest way to do it. his family is picture perfect. his daughters -- they don't do anything wrong. they turned themselves out perfectly. they act like a royal family in a good democratic way. everything his wife does seems perfect. it's about obesity, something everyone knows is a problem in this country. what more do they want from this guy? we have a number that's out

where something like 75% of the country say they like the guy personally. >> well, chris, first of all, you're using reason, which as we know is a faulty way to derive at any sort of truth. rick santorum will tell you it's probably because you went to college. and people who go to college, they are the types who are suspect to this virus of reason. and that's probably why you're thinking the way you are logically. no. what rick santorum would tell you is home school your kids, stay away from college, because people who go to college want to be like obama. you know, successful. we don't want that here in america. >> what did you think about going to war with jack kennedy? here's a guy who is trying to get the reagan democrats, eventually santorum, because they are the ones that decide. conservative democrats. irish, italian, people who are generally more conservative than most democrats but they are still democrats. but you try to grab them because

that's how you win. trashing kennedy, i don't get it. i don't know who he is trying to win over. he trashes the conservative catholics, who still treasure kennedy. african-americans still treasure kennedy. who is he looking for not in those groups of college or ethnically conservative democrats? who is he after? >> i don't know. you're asking the wrong guy because i can't see into his mind. i never thought anyone would come out against college. i can't write this stuff. in fact, with all the material that rick santorum is giving me, i should write him a check for a million dollars. but what's interesting about the kennedy thing is kennedy in 1960 had to make a speech that said i'm not going to be taking my marching orders from the pope. here we are in 2012, and it's almost the opposite. rick santorum is throwing up because the president is not saying the reverse.

yes, i will take my marching orders from the pope. >> exactly. that's what he's saying. >> it's so through the looking glass. i loved that thing you did last week where you showed the statement that pope benedict made and made the statement that rick santorum doesn't even follow his own pope. >> let me ask you about romney. i have this a theory that backs up your case that it's a 50/50 country. i believe that nobody believes romney and that's going to help him in the general election. nobody believes that he's a right winger and believes in the tea party crap. he wouldn't be caught dead at a tea party meeting. not everybody believes he's pragmatic about abortion rights. they think he's a pragmatist. nobody is afraid of the guy. i think that may be a great help to him if he goes up against obama. you agree? >> that's right. and i do agree with that. i think this idea that they go after him as a flip-flopper, that could backfire because being a flip-flopper perversely in this weird world could be an asset to him. people who don't like what he is

saying will just say, when he gets into office, he's going to switch right back. they're going to have to flip-flop on flip-flopping. it's a very funny election. but yes, i agree with you. yeah, go ahead. >> my hero winston churchill said when he switched parties for the second time. anyone can rat. it takes somebody special to re-rat. make he's going to re-rat and go back to being the governor of massachusetts. >> it will be a little hard. >> you're the best. >> thank you. >> you are the funniest, smartest guy around. yeah, both, i think are true. bill maher, you're an irish guy, too. thank you for coming on. "realtime" returns this friday at 10:00 p.m. on hbo. for some reason, all these people that say they have a social life are always home friday night watching this guy. you explain. anyway, he will be at the tennessee performing arts center in nashville on march 18th. up next, we're going to shift gears and talk about

what's really going on in afghanistan. scary stuff with the koran getting burned over there, probably accidentally. violence and riots. these guys are just spawning for a fight against us. should we still be there? big question. this is "hardball," only on msnbc. how about a bike ride? you're not my dad ahh!! hey honey, back feels better, little dancing tonight, you and me? dr. scholl's pro inserts relieve different types of lower body pain by treating at the source so you're a whole new you. go pro with dr. scholl's.

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when asked their impression of barack obama as a person, and the way they approved of him, three quarters said they approved. 74%. 59% they approved of him strongly as a person. this is serious business. a big plus for the president. we'll be right back.

we're back. there was more violence today in afghanistan which insurgents have called revenge for the burning of the muslim holy books, the korans. by nato troops last week. a suicide bomber killed nine afghans outside the gates of a nato air base today. u.s. officials have called the burning of the koran a mistake and president obama apologized

to afghan president hamid karzai. at least 40 people are now dead because of those burnings of the books since the news broke, including four american g.i.s. the united states said it was temporarily pulling civilian and military advisers from government ministries. that's from the offices, after a number of attacks targeting american troops. what does this latest episode say about the state of our mission in afghanistan? is it time to get out of there? chelie pingree is a u.s. congresswoman from maine and serves on the house armed services committee. and wes moore is a veteran of the war in afghanistan. i have to start with the congresswoman who has been elected. i always give preference to our elected officials in our democracy. biden, secretary -- vice president biden said a better plan over there when this was being reviewed in afghanistan a couple of years ago was counterterrorism. don't try to go in with counterinsurgency. with a big army. keep them aware the fact al qaeda could come back. focus on terrorists. get out of the country. wasn't he -- isn't he now look

smarter than the policy we have now, this -- of this surge of almost 100,000 troops in there? >> keep in mind that biden has made many trips over to the country. i think he's right. i've been a strong advocate for removing our troops. i think incidents like this only exacerbate it. the president did the right thing, but there will be continued turmoil. and this is just one more signal that we spent too much money and lost too many troops. >> why do they hate us so much that all it takes is something that's clearly or it's no worse than done by -- imagine there's a couple officers that were bad and did this. they hate the koran. okay. that's a couple of guys. worst case scenario. it's probably something like they say it is where they were passing messages with these books. but why is the whole country turning against us? they were -- it looks like they were spoiling for an issue. >> there's a lot of turmoil over there. and i think many people in the country appreciate what we've done. but this is a hard place to, quote/unquote, win. it's one more example of why we don't belong there.

>> wes moore, thanks for joining us and thanks for your service. is this an example of just joining us and your service. is this an example of people rubbed raw with nationalism, they don't like people in their country and don't like them so they do something wrong there is the issue? >> i think it's a bigger issue than that, chris, quite hon the president is correct, with the president making an apology, that is not emasculate ing america, he's trying to look out for the best interests of the soldiers on the ground fighting this every day and civilians that have to do their jobs in a hostile work environment, this is about something much bigger than simply why do they hate us but that is why i think president obama was forceful in the way he tried to address this. >> why are they running around the streets going nuts? don't they have places to be,

something else to do? i'm serious they devoted their entire beings to go nuts against us because of what a couple guys did, either intentionally, may have been justified or unintentional unintentionally. in the western religions, the proper way is burning it, that is not a desecration. it's their interpretation of what they see as a desecration. an american would never desecrate that, that is it a propose yacht way to do it. this whole thing looks like they don't like us, we're still the soviets. >> chris, this is a very important distinction, the fact that over in afghanistan, there is a slim distinction between the actions of individuals and government intent. the reason that president bush was used this argument of force protection in 2008, the reason secretary of gates spoke out,

the reason president spoke out in this case the fact we can see the actions of individuals know that isn't necessarily the actions of the government or intent of the government, is this not the way all coat aly this not the way all coalition forces feel about is and our holy book. that is why i think it's an important distinction to draw about afghan stand and the way we feel over here as well. >> go ahead, congress womb. >> i think wes laid it out well. this is the holy book of the majority of the people in the country. they don't know if an individual did this or the policy of the united states. it's not surprising there is a tremendous amount of uprising, i think the president handled it in the right way and one more challenge we have to face. i don't think this is surprising that everyone hates us. >> what is all that crowd about we're watching, thousands of people not working, spending all

their time screaming and yelling, is this just for the cameras? this looks like real passion, multitude of people, nothing else matters to them on this planet except we burned their holy book. nothing is as important as this. not fighting the taliban, al qaeda is coming back in, congress woman do you believe this is the most important to these people what they are doing right now. >> i think it's an angry country tired of being at war, many people out of work and they are frustrated and tired about the situation they are in but still have the right to be angry about what is gone on with their holy books. >> in addition to the fact that we have to understand that it's the taliban who has been behind the riling up, spreading information around the country. >> i don't like the looks of this. thank you. when we return, why it's not smart politics for rick santorum to criticize president kennedy

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let me finish with this, rick santorum has a strange way of winning over blue cal ollar he needs to beat mitt romney. he attacked john kennedy. i question deeply santorum's attack on his public role.

kennedy was a war hero who risked his life in the south pacific. no president in history, no politician showed such selfless courage in the way he did in saving his crew. santorum ought to do study before saying who makes them throw up. he was the first president to stand up for civil rights, declaring it a moral issue as old as the scriptures, as clear as the american constitution. he sent federal troops in mississippi to integrate ole miss. he forced the door in alabama past past george wallace. the sister of that woman is married to the attorney general of united states. kennedy was trying to hold on to texas and georgia he knew his stand for civil rights was going to cost him the rest of the south. kennedy created the peace corps to send young people to teach and help the poor.

he created the alliance for progress to help create a partnership with latin america. saved the world from nuclear war in the cuban missile crisis when generals wanted to attack cuba and khrushchev wanted to fire missiles at new york. santorum said he wanted to throw up after his comments about keeping church and state separate. no minister should tell people how to vote, perhaps before retching, he ought to consider doing good might be possible without being sectarian he might have considered what kennedy said in his inaugural address that here on earth, god's work must truly be our own. that is "hardball" a thank you for being with us, i will be in new york tomorrow of the michigan and arizona primaries.