coverage at 8:00 eastern after "hardball." "the ed show" starts right now. good evening americans. breaking news a shuttle america flight made an emergency landing at newark liberty airport. the passenger plane with 69 passengers and four crew reported a landing gear malfunction shortly before 7:00. no one on board injured, according to our affiliate, liberty national has reopened. in 24 hours, republican primary voters in michigan and arizona face a tough choice, vote for the candidate who calls president obama a snob, or a guy who proves he's one every day. this is the "the ed show" let's get to work. president obama wants said he wants everybody to go to college. what a snob.

>> rick santorum is appeal middle classers with lies and distortions. >> when i speak about higher education not just a four year degree. >> richard wolffe on the attack on education and joan walsh on ridiculous knock on john f. kennedy. mitt romney's days of blunder continue. >> i have great friends that are nascar team owners. >> it's as tight as a tick in michigan. howard fineman and john nichols have the latest. a brand new state has declared war on women's bodies and their law goes farther than virginia. the grio's joy-ann reid and terry o'neill are here. in wisconsin, the biggest victory for the recall walker movement to dait te. >> it's nine million dollars of taxpayer money to run this.

>> good to have you with us tonight, thanks for watching. rick santorum is trying to drive a wedge between wage earners and the president of the united states. santorum's new attack on the president is taylor made for the people in the rust belt states like michigan. here is his pitch to a tea party crowd. >> i know what manufacturing means to a community, i grew up in one. i understand what it means to have folks who are at the bottom of the economic ladder, folks who are struggling to pull the skills together to be able to get value in the marketplace for their skills. not all folks are gifted in the same way. some people have incredible gifts with their hands. some people have incredible gifts and want to work out that making things. >> got to hand to it santorum, mitt romney just can't talk like that and that's why santorum is making this a race in michigan. santorum made a hard play for wage earners, a group mitt

romney can't connect with. he said president obama thinks he's better than them. >> president obama wants to send -- everybody in america to go to college. what a snob. there are good decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to task that aren't taught by a liberal college professor try to indoctrinate them. >> he knows how to play to the crowd. the message is clear, president obama has a condescending view of the working class and rick santorum just knows all about their needs and cares so much more about them. santorum is trying to make these folks think president obama views them as somewhat of a lesser people, a lesser worker in society? we asked the santorum campaign to let us know when president obama said that he wanted to send every american to college. they have not responded and we'll let you know if they do.

but president obama did respond today. he was talking about education at the national governors association. >> jobs in the future are going with more than a high school degree. i have to make a point here when i speak about higher education we're not talking about a four-year degree. we're talking about somebody going to a community college and getting trained for that manufacturing job that now is requiring somebody walking through the door handling a million dollar piece of equipment. they can go in there unless they have some basic training beyond what with they received in high school. >> president obama's opinion on college is not much different than rick santorum's back in 2006, santorum senate campaign website said "santorum it's equally committed to insuring every pennsylvanian has access

to higher education" what a switch. so rick santorum has a double standard when it comes to higher education he's for it unless president obama is also for it. santorum has double standard doesn't stop there. he says president obama wants to indoctrinate our youth by sending them to college. another person who has been accused of indoctrinating youth is a guy named ron luce, president of teen mania ministries. he said ron luce takes the first important step, educating and equipping parents like me. many past attendees of ron luce's ministries set up a website describing yes the physical and emotional abuses they experienced while staying at a ron luce camp. among the accusations are sleep deprivation, food deprivation, verbal abuse, rolling in vomit, you got to like that one, crawling through the mud.

here is how ron luce describes the ministry. >> you could say fear factor meets navy seals training. fear factor they don't know how it will unfold or what the next exercise is and that kind of thing, meets navy seal training, it is really intense, you can wring out but you are required to give more than you think you can give. creating a surreal environment where you discover things in you that you didn't know were there like wow i'm a quitter i shouldn't be or i can give more than i thought. with the hope of you are helping them discover that they can reach deeper and trust in the lord more than what they thought. >> oh, yeah, ron luce gets a big thumb's up from rick santorum. but president obama he's the bad guy who wants to indoctrinate your kids. rick santorum's words need to be examined very closely as he moves closer to the republican nomination. santorum basically is telling

working class americans president obama thinks that he's better than them and wants to brain wash their children. this is 2012, can you believe this? this is the kind of talk dangerous, has a lot of people scared. i was in columbus, ohio over the weekend for a radio event at the station there. i asked a few people in the crowd what do you think of the santorum guy? the word that came out "dangerous." i want to address for a moment this blue collar thing that santorum thinks he's got going with people in michigan and ohio. just remember one thing, rick santorum not one time on the campaign trail has come out and said "i'm pro union and i'll stand with you, i'll stand with people that collectively bargain" he's a republican they are against unions, against the voice in the work place, gone after health care, pension and they think you make too much and they outsourced your jobs overseas, remember blue collar workers in michigan. the democrats aren't going to take firearms.

they go to church, too, and they believe that the person living next to you can have a same sex marriage. that is as far as it goes, okay? not going to be intrusive in your life style. the fact is that santorum is playing the shell game, answer me this. if santorum lost by 18 points to senator casey in 2006, where were all those pittsburgh union people? they were working to get santorum out of the senate because he was not union-friendly and he was not the big wage earner supporter that he loves to pretend to be on the campaign trail. i give him credit he can talk the smoke and smack when he's in front of the crowd, he knows how to play to the crowd. the record does not show he's for wage earners, he's playing a card that romney can't play. romney don't know how to play, but santorum does. get your cell phones out, i want to know what you think. tonight's question, do republicans prefer to have an uneducated electorate?

a for yes, b for no to 622639. go to our blog ed.msnbc.com. results later in the show. for more on this, richard wolffe, good to have you with us tonight. >> thanks, ed. >> is santorum going to be effective winning in winning over the voter, how do you judge it? >> i don't think he is. i'll explain why. let's leave aside the distortions of the president's record for a second. when you think about the economic argument that at times rick santorum has his arms around, there isn't a member of the middle class who honestly thinks kids will find the good paying jobs or this country will build the kind of economy to compete with the rest of the world without getting an education beyond high school. nobody really believes that. education is so central to the middle class that health care and housing and that defines

what it is to be aspirational in the middle class. making the economic argument he's saying about manufacturing, if he thinks non-skilled lower educated jobs are the way forward for this country he doesn't understand the global economy, he's doing down the republican reputation, remember the pitch they understand the private sector, they understand global economy, this kind of comments about how education, the president's positions on community colleges, on getting scheduled jobs, isn't work something that doesn't fit with the world today. rick santorum may be speaking to a sliver of christian conservatives, he's not making the big pitch. >> santorum's charges against president obama are extreme. here they are. >> i understand why he wants you to go to college. he wants to remake you in his image. i want to create jobs on so people can remake their children

in their image, not his. >> what is he talking about? remake them in his image? >> this gets to theology, right? him using biblical language to try to suggest there is an anti-religious advocate in the white house who is trying to revolutionize secularize america. it's nonsense, not true, in any way, shape or form. the idea that preparing people for skilled manufacturing jobs or non-manufacturing jobs is a way to indoctrinate people is curious a guy who took the position he took on terri sc hiavo. this is big government conservativism why government reaches in and used to push the social agenda forward. there is a huge gap between that and the economic side of the party, between what santorum has said about the economy but also with people like ron paul, he's an out liar.

>> what about president obama responding to these charges? what did you make of it? >> i think it shows that even from the perch of the presidency, this is a president and a campaign that is very highly attuned, we saw the first ad on solyndra. michigan is a battle ground state. at the doesn't correct this stuff no matter how many people he has in chicago doing it it's not the same impact. he has to be on top of it, rapid response from the white house. >> richard wolffe, thank you for joining us so much. answer tonight's question there at bottom of the screen, we want to know what you think. coming up, rick santorum says john f. kennedy wants to make him throw up. mitt romney tries to win over nascar lovers but they are not buying it.

howard fineman and john nichols join me on romney's failure to connect with regular folks. stay with us we're right back. k any battery will do... consider the journey of today's athletes: ♪ their training depends on technology. [ beeping, ticks ] and when their devices are powered by a battery, there are athletes everywhere who trust duracell so whether they're headed for london or the journey has just begun... they rely on copper to go for the gold. duracell. trusted everywhere. was thought up and built and run to save people money? what if that company was born online, with tools and apps to make people feel like geniuses? and what if that company was now backed by the stability and reliability of allstate? well, what if that company was esurance and this wasn't just a bunch of hypothetical questions? could be cool-ish.

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coming up rick santorum isn't just lying about president obama. wait until he distorts john f. kennedy's message on religion. joan walsh joins me next. alabama's new bill and reaction from terry o'neill from the national organization of women. rahm emanuel is gutting public schools and giving taxpayer dollars to charter schools, you won't believe how they are disciplining poor children. share thoughts on twitter using #edshow, we will be right back, stay with us.

kennedy for the first time articulated a vision saying no faith is not allowed in the public square i will keep it separate. go on and read the speech i will have nothing to do with faith i won't consult with people of faith. it was an absolutist doctrine that was foreign at the time of 1960. to say people of faith have no role in the public square? you bet that makes you throw up. >> rick santorum says john f. kennedy wants to make him throw up. here is what jfk actually said. >> i believe in an america that is officially neither catholic, protestant or jewish, where religious intolerance will all end. all men and all churches treated as equals.

every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice. >> at no time did he say his faith is not allowed in the public square. he gave the speech for much the same reason barack obama had to explain his connection to reverend jeremiah wright. kennedy had to reassure america he wouldn't force catholocism on the country. he defended the rights of catholics like rick santorum run for president. >> this election is decided on the basis that 40 million americans lost their chance of being president on the day they were baptized, then it the whole nation that will be the loser. >> santorum's distortion is very revealing. by saying jfk's speech on religion made him want to throw up he is confirming he would allow his faith to determine policy in the white house if he were to get.

there you would call it a theocracy. joan walsh, your reaction to be that sound you heard? >> oh my god, ed, thanks for playing it all. those are the best sound bites. nothing that is inconsistent, but those clips get at what the president said. first of all can i just say it made me want to throw up, what grade is the guy in? how juvenile, he wants to be president. but second, as you point out, president kennedy absolutely never said he wanted to drive people of faith from the public square. he was trying to make the public square safe for people of all faiths and he's very, very clear about that. he was a practicing catholic, he had close relationships with priests, as well as ministers, and rabbis, but it was never about driving people of faith away. the other thing i think people don't understand is we all only had one catholic president, and

it comes from a history of real anti-catholic prejudice and nativism in the country. president kennedy was speaking about. that he made it safe for rick santorum to run for president. this is how santorum repays him. just so awful. >> what would a santorum presidency look like? would this be the closest thing you states would come to a theocracy or would it be one? >> i think the would be close. the thing about santorum he is slightly cagey, when he gets challenged, i'm not saying i would want to impose my values on others. of course he does. he crusades against contraception and tries to say well i never said that i would really outlaw it and i voted for title x, a few days later says i hate title x i want to outlaw it. he's as much a flip-flopper as mitt romney is.

so we don't know what he would do but plenty of reason to fear it. >> fear is the perfect word. it seems to me rick santorum is doing everything he can to get conservatives to not only support him but to fear the president. the more they fear the president, the more he can demonnize him the better chance he will have in the long run politically. but who does it really play to? who is he really talking to? >> you know, i think -- the ironic thing i think he is talking to the old prejudiced nativist evangelical crust, which is a very small group of people. catholics have it great in this country, but there are those people out there, that is what is ironic. i always say and i think you say this, too, i can't root for santorum to win the nomination because it's possible that a republican could get elected. i love my country i can't wish it on my country. however this, made me feel like

president obama couldn't lose against this guy, can you imagine the ads in catholic places, ohio, pennsylvania, the swing states? just saying president kennedy makes me want to throw up, i would love to see that campaign. >> you think santorum is deliberately lying about the meaning of kennedy's speech? or do you think he believes it? >> i think he's lying. the guy has three degrees, he's a snob, gone to a lot of college, he's not stupid. i don't think he's stupid. it's such approve vocation reminded me of gary hart, you think i'm cheating, follow me around. tells you to read the speech. okay, i don't remember it being that way, let me read the speech, i find it it doesn't say anything of the kind. so he's got to know that. he just is saying whatever it takes to win this election and as you put it, whatever it takes to rile people up, and scare them about president obama. it's that simple. >> i would love to see him win michigan.

i would really love to see the nomination, we would have a clear contrast and a real debate which way to take the country which i think would be healthy for america. joan, great to have you with us always, thank you so much. >> thank you, ed. >> not just republicans in virginia who want to call the shots on women's health care. new states have declared war on women's bodies. joy-ann reid and terry o'neill weigh in next. >> scott walker's campaign say they won't challenge recall signatures we'll tell you the bogus excuse, stay with us.

i think it's invasive, i think it's almost an assault if it's not medically necessary to do the ultrasound, no one should be forced to undergo a medical procedure like that by government. >> sound familiar? this time it's happening in the state of alabama. state republican lawmakers have introduced their own mandatory ultrasound bill. senate bill 12 would require, require, a physician to perform an ultrasound provide verbal explanation of the ultrasound and display the images to the pregnant woman before performing an abortion. the legislation passed committee last week in alabama, the committee chair, state senator greg reed thinks it's a good bill. he also happens to be an executive at preferred medical sis systems systems, a company that sells ultrasound equipment.

physicians could face up to 10 years in prison and $15,000 fine if they don't administer the medically unnecessary ultrasound first. the physician could also require a woman to under go an invasive internal ultrasound instead of external one. that part of the bill prompted the most public outrage. late today, the bill's sponsor republican state senator clay scofield says he will amend the legislation. >> the portion that i want to clarify that i think, that people say this is the vaginal trans-ducer because of the language either/or. i want to leave that up to the woman's choice. >> turn to joy-ann reid and terry o'neill, president of the national organization for women.

thanks to both of you for joining us tonight. joy-ann, your response to this? >> unbelievable this state representative would introduce choice and say the state has the right to literally invade you bodily but we'll give you a choice how that is done, from the belly or vaginally, there is no choice here, this is coercion, this is not just alabama, same thing happening in pennsylvania, texas passed a law, extremely onerous and making it difficult for women to make this decision on their own without essentially being sort of coerced by saying well you have to watch this image, you can look away and close your eyes, you have to listen to the heart beat, you have to do all these things to shame and coerce women into giving birth. >> terry, your thoughts on what is happening with the medical community here, a doctor could face a jail sentence if he didn't perform the procedure, that is a mandate. and what doctor is going to perform abortions with those kind of penalties which

obviously is going to be more restrictive when it comes to choice? your thoughts? >> you know, the purpose of this bill is simply to stop women from exercising their constitutional right to have an abortion. and joy-ann i could not agree more, to use the word choice in this context, a number of people are calling these ritual humiliation laws. that is the their actual purpose, ritually humiliate women, many women feel enormous relief after an abortion, for many women a wrenching decision, every woman's abortion is her own, he should have nothing to do with it it's between her and her doctor and the people who love her and depend on for her support. that is not the legislature of alabama. >> politically this seems to be happening all over the country. it's picking up like a fire

storm. the virginia senate was pushed back, they delayed a vote on the ultrasound bill once again, do you think republicans know that this is a loser, joy-ann but want to do it anyway? >> it's hard to tell. there have been something like 1100 of these kind of bills introduced around the country since the 2010 mid-terms, 130 of them become law. it's in all states, swing states like florida and pennsylvania, red states like texas and alabama. what you're seeing is that wing of the republican party, the evangelicals decided they won't wait anymore. they were disappointed by george w. bush, never fulfilled the policies of enacting the legislation. >> they are ready for the fight. >> they want it now and feel this is their time to do it and running out of time. >> in the middle of the country in, kansas, here is kansas governor sam brownback, who used to be in the senate offering a solution for women working in religious institutions.

>> that is not denying women's rights, if a woman wants birth control, go work somewhere else. >> what do you say to that, terry? >> i think mr. brownback needs to be working somewhere else. the women of alabama are mobilizing like the women women in virginia did. the republican politicians who are aggressively going after women's birth control, aggressively going after like the susan g. komen, going after breast cancer patient, going after reproductive rights in an invasive way, those politicians won't hold their jobs longer. it's mobilizing the base of women who support women's rights and they will lose. >> if there is no push back, who knows if the language in that bill would have ever been changed. >> the thing that is incredible. growing up in an era, where abortion was legal, this is a

shock to younger women this is shocking to find we're in this 1950's debate. women are are not accustomed to these assaults on their liberty, i think republicans are committing a fatal political error with younger women who are not only the voters of 2012 but 2014 and 16 and beyond. >> joy-ann reid, terry o'neill, thank you for joining us tonight. thank you, ed. if people think there is something wrong with being successful america they better vote for the other guy. >> can mitt romney keep his mouth closed long enough to hold on to the slim lead in michigan? i'll ask howard fineman of the huffington post and john nichols next. more bad news for the wisconsin governor, democrats going up with a new ad, we'll bring you the latest. in the public school disaster in chicago, students pay fines for breaking rules, parents are outraged, that

report is ahead.

welcome back to "the ed show." mitt romney can't be a regular guy maybe he ought to stop trying. he pulled a classic at nascar when he tried to mix it up with the regular folks. he saw a group of nascar fans wearing rain ponchos, so he said i like those fancy rain coats you bought. really sprung for the big bucks. when a reporter asked him if he was a nascar fan, he said this. >> not as closely as some of the most ardent fans but i have great great friends who are nascar team owners. >> he knows the owners but not the guys who change the tires. romney claimed to remember the 50th anniversary of the american automobile. >> i think my dad had a job like being the grand master or whatever of the 50th celebration of the automobile in detroit,

they painted woodward avenue with gold paint, my memory is foggy, i was probably 4, but had the cars go down the avenue. >> the golden jubilee was in 1946. mitt romney was born in 1947, so yeah i guess the mittster's memory is foggy. he screwed up big time on the automobile loan program and rick santorum is trying to take advantage of it. santorum's campaign has apparently put out this robo call in michigan. >> romney supported the bail outs for his wall street billionaire buddies but opposed the auto bail outs on tuesday join democrats who will send a loud message to massachusetts mitt romney by voting for rick santorum for president. this call is supported by hard working democratic men and women and paid for by rick santorum for president. >> joining me are john nichol,

washington correspondent of the nation magazine and author of uprising, and howard fineman, nbc news and editorial director of the huffington post, great to have you, i have to ask you, does rick santorum have some sort of an operation chaos of his own going on in michigan? >> well, ed, i talked to a prominent democratic labor union official just a little while ago before coming on the show and i said what about santorum's appeal to democrats in michigan? and he said well you know if rick santorum wanted to appeal to democrats in michigan, it probably wasn't a great idea to say he wanted to throw up when he was reading a speech by john f. kennedy. that really wasn't a great introduction to seeking democratic. >> the rain coat comment, the guy can't connect with working folk. >> no he can't. he said as much. he said the other day on tv when questioned about the two

cadillacs and so forth, he said look, i am what i am. this is what i am. the problem is whenever he tries to be something else, which is every day, he gets it wrong and it just feeds in to the ongoing narrative of a guy who not only can't connect to working people but who somehow seems ungenuine, phony, and that is a theme that he will have to deal with if he's lucky or unlucky enough to get the nomination -- >> he tried to defend the gaffe. >> i can't be perfect, i just am who i am. if people think there is something wrong with being successful in america, they better vote for the other guy. >> that must be playing well in arizona. in tucson, arizona where john nichols is, mitt romney has a good lead. john, how do you figure? >> i think mitt romney has a

lead in arizona because the conservatives here, social conservatives who are dominant are split. the remarkable thing in arizona is that while romney leads and santorum is in second, newt gingrich is running way stronger than in a lot of the rest of the country. the recent polls have him over 20%. that 20% is coming out of rick santorum, so the fact of the matter is you are going to probably see a situation in arizona where mitt romney wins because of that divided opposition but doesn't get near a majority. >> the polls are tightening in michigan. howard, is this a must-win for mitt romney tomorrow? >> of course it is. it's his home state, i know there are jokes he lives in various other places in california and boston. he explained the two cadillacs were one each in california and boston.

but of course he has to win it and even though -- you know he has to win it because his people say he will win it and they made the prediction shows how important they think it is. if they were going to down play the significant they wouldn't say that. >> what do you make of the good polling in ohio? and also in wisconsin? john nichols, your thoughts? >> well, romney's good poll something. >> santorum's, i'm sorry. santorum seems to be doing well in ohio, and a lot of favorable comments i heard over the weekend people on the other side think he's very dangerous but seems to be appealing to the radical and that is the wing he's grabbing right now. >> i think there is something else very important. santorum at this point is appealing in both wisconsin and ohio for two reasons. mitt romney has not been in with negative ads, people are expressing their real views, they have no taste for mitt romney and rick santorum emerged as the alternative. the other thing that ties them

together, and i think it's why santorum remains viable in michigan is that wisconsin and ohio are manufacturing states, they are auto states by tradition, and these are places where i think that the mitt romney opposition to the auto bail out is almost as big an issue in an ohio or wisconsin as it is in michigan. >> howard, if mitt romney barely wins in michigan, isn't that a big statement by santorum in and of itself? because he didn't have the resources to do the kind of campaigning he wanted to do in michigan early on and this wasn't supposed to be this tough for mitt romney in michigan. >> that's right. that is one reason why mitt romney has to win it, if he's going to try to impress the people who matter here, which are the republican establishment or what is left of it. i think first of all if romney wins arizona as he is expected

to do that is a winner take allstate, a big bunch of delegates there, michigan is proportional by congressional district, i believe, santorum will get some delegates regardless, what it will do if it's very close and looks like it will be, it will set santorum up for a strong race in ohio. now, again, as john said, the romney campaign hasn't done its carpet bombing work in ohio. what this all will mean we are knee in for a very long, complicated campaign. newt gingrich will win georgia. may even the end of may, if we have a republican nominee. >> i just want to point out that would cut into fishing season for me. i wish they would get a decision. >> howard fineman, john nichols, great to have you. scott walker slashed education funding while giving tax breaks to corporations but blaming the recall campaign for hurting wisconsin children? really really?

the latest walker nonsense, next.

up next the walker recall is on but the radical wisconsin governor is worried about children and seniors. the wisconsin democrats are fighting back with a new commercial and it's a dandy. tweet us using #edshow, we're right back. right there u why you fell in love with her in the first place. and why you still feel the same. but your erectile dysfunction -- that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, seek immediate medical help

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the effort to recall governor scott walker is moving full steam ahead. today was the deadline for the walker campaign to challenge recall petition signatures. the walker camp announced they won't be filing any challenges, the campaign complained there wasn't enough time to review the petitions even though the judge had given them an extra 20 days. but timing isn't the only thing scott walker is complaining about. >> it's a huge distraction not just for me, but the legislature, nine million dollars to run this, think of the number of kids we could help, seniors we could help with nine million dollars we didn't

have to waste on this frivolous recall election. >> really? walker's arrogance is amazing, isn't it? he's referring to the democratic process as frivolous. it's interesting walker is suddenly really concerned about seniors and children. last year the governor cut almost $900 million from education, but did give corporations $140 million tax break. think about the number of kids and seniors that could be helped with that billion dollars. scott walker's policies are failing and he has the worst job records in the country but still playing the victim. >> attacked by out of state special interests, the tens of millions have poured in, we're ahead of the democrats. >> scott walker is whining about out of state money? the koch brothers spent $700,000 on pro walker ads recently.

the koch brothers i don't think they are wisconsinites. the democrats are using in state money to fund this campaign commercial. >> aids were charged yesterday. >> police arrested five men in the watergate. >> embezzled money. >> misconduct in office. >> felonies. >> high level campaign. political sabotage. >> investigation is getting closer to governor walker. >> what did the president know and when did he know it? >> i'm just asking the question. if the walker campaign continues to back down, a recall election could happen as early as may 29th. coming up, students are fined? yes, fined for minor offenses in chicago charter schools. and it's affecting their ability to afford an education. this should not be napg happening in a so-called public

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ed show survey tonight, i asked do republicans prefer to have an uneducated electorate? 97% of you said yes, 3% said no. coming up, is a chicago charter school's policy of fining students for misbehavior going too far? i'll speak with a parent of a nobel charter school student, next. hey kev, how about a bike ride?

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chicago school board may have rammed through an unpopular, unfair overhaul but the discussion is far from over. rahm emanuel the mayor of the city is a big fan of charter schools, calling the results incredible. but the nobel street charter schools are coming under increased scrutiny because they are charging parents fees for student misconduct. the fees are based on demerits and detention, minor offenses like chewing gum, not looking at the teacher, when you are supposed to or not sitting up straight. the nobel charter network collected $387,745 in fees over the past few years. it was described this way, many students leave the school before their senior year, some forced to choose between bus fare and education. by a discipline code that fines

them for bringing chips to school or chewing gum. believe it or not. i'm joined by judith brown diannis, a co-chair of a civil right organization focused on issues of democracy and race and donna moore, whose son attends nobel charter school in chicago. ms. moore, what have you experienced with the nobel charter school and is it the right way to go? >> it is not the right way to go for many of the students, what i've experienced is punishment robbing not just my pocketbook for paying fines, for minor things such as a shoe untied or falling asleep in a detention. the things that are happening

does not make common sense in terms of discipline for high schoolers getting to college on their way to college. a shoe untied? slouching? those are the things that are holding kids back from being able to even move forward and have a future. >> judith, is this for profit or is this to make a better environment, what do you think? >> clearly they are lining their pockets of this school it's a non-profit organization but to have over almost $400,000 they collected in three years from low income families, for minor conduct and it's not effective, not that it changes the behavior but about padding the pockets of the school. >> how much of an impact has this had on your sibling, donna? >> for my son it has had a tremendous impact. being told that you are undisciplined because you have a button unbuttoned, or a shoe untied, that has really totally

undermined his self-esteem, his self-worth. because he's constantly reminded that he's bad because of these very minor things. that have nothing to do with education that have nothing to do with anything egregious. >> judith,ing what do you think of mayor rahm emanuel's response to this? he says it's incredible. >> basically mayor emanuel said this is the school with the secret sauce, in fact they have a dirty secret. that is that they are double taxing parents, not only is that school getting money through taxes but then they are charging parents who can't afford it. parents have to make choices whether or not to pay for the bus ride to school or going to pay the fine. and guess what? if you do not pay the fine the policy allows them to keep your child back in grade or not allow your child to graduate. this is what he is holding up as sound education reform? he's absolutely wrong. >> donna, how is your son's

attitude going through this? >> it is very disheartening, he has his whole dream of becoming a drug enforcement agent has been undermined because of suspensions and fines for nothing that has to do with anything egregious, for slouching, not sitting up straight, for not tracking the teacher. >> quickly, judith, it would seem that personalities can become involved. i have to admit not every teacher loved big eddie, there are some things, that are personalities that come in play here which i think can be dangerous and a system a kid could get picked on. >> that is right. this is the problem with what is happening here, is that it's totally subjective. and so you might get a written up all the time. and that is not fair to parents and then they are having to pay for it.