you learn. great lessons in all of that. thank you so much. that will do it for us. i'm dylan ratigan. "hardball" is up right now with chris matthews. rick versus romney. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. what an evening it's going to be. tonight we stand and watch again at the political abyss of mitt romney. he may win tonight and avoid a devastating fall, but if he loses shs the fall could be deadly. how does romney ek plain losing in michigan? how does a candidate who outspends 2 to 1 explain rejection? and how does anyone explain losing to a candidate who makes himself so challenging to vote for as rick santorum? this may be as big a night as we

have had in this political season. we have it covered now until the dust settles. we'll be back in two hours with a new edition of "hardball." then rachel maddow and i will be joined for full coverage of the primaries. we begin our coverage tonight right now with joe cline and howard fineman. i want to start with you, joe. tonight, this thing about mitt romney. i want your general stance. i don't think he's a good politician. i don't think he has the huch touch or bedside manner. he's not what we think of as a good politician. that's his problem. >> that's true. and today was an incredibly significant day in the history of mitt romney. he finally admitted that there was something that he wouldn't do to get this nomination. >> what's that? >> he would not set his hair on

fire. as much as i'd like to see his hair set on fire, the fact is that throughout this process, he has sold his soul to the devil time and time and time again. and finally, today, he said that he wouldn't criticize the president in the outlandish way that santorum and newt and others have been doing. >> let's show that now. here's mitt romney saying what he won't do. we're finally hearing what he won't do. what he's not even willing to do. let's watch it. >> it's very easy to excite the base with incendiary comments. we have seen throughout the campaign if you're willing to say outrageous things that are accusative and attacking president obama, that you're going to jump up in the polls. i'm not willing to light my hair on fire to try to give support. >> is this the same candidate who fairly recently has said, if president obama is president next year, iran will have

nuclear weapons. if i'm president, they won't. i think that's a pretty strong statement in terms of insind area. but your thoughts? >> he already set his hair on fire many times, it's just not flammable. >> howard, quote of the day. now we move on. >> but looking at it from the other way, how much guts does it take as a politician to stand up for a college education or to stand up for the separation of church and state? is that as far as mitt romney is willing to go to pick issue with rick santorum? if that's only as far as he's willing to go with the mild and sort of vague denunciation of insind area rhetoric, does he? why not take him on. that will force santorum even farther to the right. but mitt romney refused to do it. >> here are the numbers.

the latest polls have santorum with a slim edge right now of 38% to 37% in michigan. that's how close they are dancing on the edge of the cliff right now. romney could lose tonight. >> he could lose. even if he wins tonight, what does he win? next week we have super tuesday, which isn't looking that terrific for him now. he's going to have a tough road in ohio. it's going to be near impossible for him down south. he has two little blocks. that block in new england with massachusetts next week and the mormon stripe in the west. idaho has a lot of mormons. >> one of the most interesting things tonight is rick santorum, as many people have said are unacceptable, you pointed them out, he is still running head to head with this guy in his native state. that's the most devastating shot at mitt romney. he can't beat a guy who has stuck his chin out on so many cultural issues including after

going after jfk. and has a lot of catholic followers to this day. and making these other comments that most would say are 1953 at best. >> a couple things. first of all, rick santorum has made it difficult for himself to reach out to catholic democrats. you don't want to trash jack kennedy when reaching out to democrats. i think what you're going to hear from the romney campaign in the off chance he loses tonight, if he does lose, and i've already been talking to some of his people about this, they are going to blame the democrats. if you look at the numbers, mitt romney has a decent lead among republicans, but rick santorum is going to the democratic side to get the democrats in. he will blame everybody else. and joe and i have covered i don't know how many campaigns between us, and you too chris, i have not seen mitt romney improve as a candidate or as a campaign. this last week or so in michigan

and down at the nascar event, for mitt romney was a nightmare. you had ford field and making fun of people with the cheap rain slickers. bragging about the owners he's friends with. just one disaster after another. for the professional politicians, they are wondering, we thought this guy was technically competent. he isn't even that right now. >> what's wrong to reach across the aisle to get democratic votes? >> i would go one further. he has gotten worse as a candidate. when he first came out, he was making a disciplined case against obama in terms of the economy. in terms of regulations and so on. he's become a mess. >> here he is. let's take a look. here's mitt romney conceding he's made some mistakes during the campaign. let's watch him. >> i'm very pleased with the

campaign. the candidates sometimes make mistakes. i'm trying to do better and work harder and make sure we get our message across. i think in the final analysis, i anticipate become the nominee because i think what peoplement to be talking about is the economy. >> are these mistakes? or are they disclosures? a mistake is when you tell something you really believe. this guy i think are disclosures. we have campaigns to see who the real candidate is. my wife has a couple cadillacs. he made fun of a person for not having upper class raincoats on. made fun of them for wearing ponchos. that's not a mistake. that's him. >> it's a mistake if you're running a campaign designed to show you have a connection to people by going to nascar event and then make fun of the things people are wearing. >> i have never heard of a politician making fun of people

for the clothes they are wearing. >> so they had a $3 poncho on. >> one reason romney may be going after santorum for his snob comment is he has his own image problem as a snob. here's what he said to the group of people wearing the ponchos. i like those fancy raincoats you bought. really sprung for the big bucks didn't you? he's making fun of people wearing those see-through ponchos you buy. usually when you get caught in the rain. he's wearing this sporty raincoat. >> plus they are already in a bad mood because the race is being delayed. >> on sunday, rick santorum said john kennedy's speech on religion made him "throw up." today he backtracked. let's listen to his backtrack. this is rick. >> i probably wouldn't have gone down that road with jfk and

throwing up. we don't generally want to hear candidates throwing up at all. you know what i mean? >> i would agree with that. i wish i had that line back. if you read the text, while there was some good things he said in that, there were some things that triggered, in my opinion, the privatization of faith. and i think that's a bad thing. >> well, i don't know he went after kennedy on what many people believe was the best speech of his campaign. he wasn't going to take his religion into the office and become a thee democrat. >> he's the opposite of mitt romney. i was out in michigan over the weekend. mitt romney is those wonderful suburbs that surround detroit. santorum is lincoln park and the

places -- and so he doesn't premeditate this stuff. he just lets it rip. he's the legion of decency. >> my question to those who are on the other side. howard, speak for them. those in the center and the left. what should they fear more? romney's elitist attitude towards the economy where he looks at everything from the top? or santorum's gut sense that his religion should trump the constitution if necessary? >> i think rick santorum is posing a more fundamental challenge to the modern world. and on the assumption that it's going to probably be a tight race regardless, and i think it will because of polls showing that there's still a lot of unhappiness with president obama's leadership, i would say be careful what you wish for if you're wishing for rick santorum, because the campaign, i think, would be one of

surpassing ugliness, probably on both sides, and something even more divisive than anything we're prepared to expect in this coming election. >> could he win the presidency? >> yeah. if you get in the finals and the big game, you can win. i wouldn't say no. because as we all l know, we were talking about the area of ten states. you're talking about ten battleground states. you could say it's unlikely, but i don't think you can say it's impossible. you never say that in politics. >> do you agree? >> probably not, but he has a shot. the thing about romney's campaign that's so crazy is that if you run on eligibility, which is a stupid thing to run on in the first place, you have to prove that you can be -- that you're electable to the people in the middle who are going to put you over the top. he has done none of that in this

campaign. >> what i have learned is when people hear the word santorum, they listen. they are interested. when they hear romney, they are bored. there's something boring about that name. thank you joe cline and howard fineman. coming up, the santorum campaign is robo calling. especially michigan democrats urging them to vote for him in the open primary today. he's looking for democratic votes. it's driving romney crazy. you're watching "hardball"'s coverage of the michigan primary, only on msnbc. look at all this stuff for coffee. oh there's tons. french presses, espresso tampers, filters. it can get really complicated. not nearly as complicated as shipping it though. i mean shipping is a hassle. not with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits it ships, anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. that is easy. best news i've heard all day! i'm soooo amped! i mean not amped. excited. well, sort of amped. really kind of in between. have you ever thought about decaf? do you think that would help? yeah.

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santorum campaign and super pac. not to be left out of the action, newt gingrich, who got another money infusion from sheldon adelson, newt is spending on tv ads in seven states. we'll be right back. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro.

welcome back to "hardball." in michigan, democrats are able to walk up to the polls and vote in the republican primary. listen to this robo call that went out to democrats today in hopes of getting them out to vote. >> michigan democrats can vote in the republican primary on tuesday. why is it so important? romney supported the bailouts for his wall street billionaire buddies but opposed the auto bailouts. that was a slap in the face to every michigan worker and we're not going to let romney get away with it. on tuesday, join democrats who

are going to send a loud message to massachusetts mitt romney by voting for rick santorum for president. this call is supported by hard working democratic men and women and paid for by rick santorum for president. >> tonight, we can report new poll data on who voted today in michigan. 10% of the voters say they are democrats. 31% say they are independents. 59% say they are republican. and that democratic number hasn't changed a whole lot since 2008. look at the number of combined democrats and independents. that's notable. today in michigan, 27% of voters say they are moderates. 14% are a members of a union. those are on par from four years ago. the kind of reagan democrats who want to pick an obama alternative?

mayor dane walling is the democratic mayor from flint and mark halperin writes for time magazine. what's your thoughts about this? romney is throwing around the term "dirty tricks." it seems to me under michigan law you're perfectly within your rights to pick up a republican ballot if you choose so. is that a dirty trick for a democrat to vote in the primary today? >> no. this is how it's been in michigan for a long time. and governor romney knows that well. there are democrats and independents and vice versa in the primaries. and i think he's just trying to prepare for a shock tonight and find someone to blame. >> what do you think of that? is that a fair assessment? maybe it was a clean trick. >> i'm going to do my best.

who cares. what does it matter? if romney loses, that's all that's going to matter. some are going to vote because they are reagan democrats and they like his message. some will be mischief makers. it doesn't matter. the robo calls are fine. if you want to become president of the united states, you want democratic votes because you're going to need them if you're going to win the general. >> mayor, when i was happy with john mccain, i was thrilled he won in michigan. i thought a lot of the catholic voters went over to the democratic side because they liked him. he was a war hero. they had one running on the other side. they did what most people do. >> yeah. there's nothing wrong with it. this is how elections work. people go to the polls and get to vote for who they like for whatever reasons they choose.

for governor romney to suggest that anyone is somehow hijacking the process, just shows his disrespect for how our democracy works. >> john mccain had a lot of crossover votes. he took part in the primary. 17% were democrats. 35% were independents. and among the democratic voters, he trounsed george bush 82% to 10%. what does it tell you that we're looking at the numbers coming in? is it good for the crossovers to have an effect? >> it could. if you're focused on the mischief makers, it's hard to know how they would answer. they may not answer honestly. >> let's go with the concerned democrats. >> it's good for santorum. particularly if he gets the bulk of them. i asked someone who worked for rick santorum. you want the reagan democrats, but how do you feel about the mischief makers?

and his answer amounted to hom na. they didn't have an answer. the state party has denounced them. rick santorum probably will and should denounce them in the sense of party politics. you don't want to come out of this having been elected on the back of michael moore. i don't think we'll know what percentage it is. >> this is news flashing before us. after the robo call news broke, santorum defended the call and brought romney's campaign tactics as defense. let's watch. >> you mean when he runs a robo call of my voice from four years ago saying good things about him, that's not a low moment? it's interesting we criticize me for attracting democrats because one of the things that romney's people say is he can't attract democrats. we'll wait and see.

>> it's hard to keep track. romney defended himself for having voted for paul sagus in a democratic primary by saying he was basically mischief making. he wasn't defending his voting. he was saying he was over there to screw with the other party. he's admitting his behavior in the past is the worst interpretation of voting today. >> right. he's trying to flip-flop again on this. it's right for him in one case and it's wrong for somebody else. and i think the voters at the end of the day, when you have a million and a half people go to the polls, you're going to see them vote for the people they think are best positioned to lead this country forward. >> let me ask you about something. in the gut, when you talk to uaw families and people who care about whether they are in the supply business or just care about the economy of your state, is there a sense that romney is

particularly guilty because he voted to bailout wall street and not the auto industry? >> yes. governor romney should have known better. he talks about his connections to michigan. his family has deep roots here. he should know how important the american auto industry is to our country, to our state, is for him to get into that overheated rhetoric and talking about letting detroit go bankrupt, that sent a clear message that he just has disdain for the voters and the working families in michigan. it's coming back to haunt him. >> by the way, if he loves michigan so much, why doesn't he live there? >> that's a good question. >> it's not like he has a job somewhere else. the whole question of the bailout, how does it work out there? >> there are some people who vote in the process who agree with him about markets and the way it should have been handled. clearly though, if he wins on the backs of independents and

democrats flocking to santorum, the bailout issue it's such a hot button. the fact that he's opposes the bail out the way he did. >> he'll have the brand of the guy who loses michigan, if he does, he'll have the brand of a guy who betrayed the auto industry. >> he'll have that in the general election too. david plouffe salivates over that every day. >> thank you, mark halperin, who even does know these guys. mayor from flint, please come back again. up next, stephen colbert on mitt romney's obsession on the height of trees. he said it twice. i like the height of the trees in michigan. you're watching "hardball"'s coverage of the michigan primaries, only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] is zero worth nothing?

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back to "hardball." now for the sideshow. first, making their case. with romney out measuring the height of trees and santorum calling obama a snob, who has done the better job of convince voters they should be calling the shot? here's stephen colbert taking on the number of empty seats at mitt romney's speech on friday. >> yeah. i mean there were a lot of empty seats, but the important thing is, mitt really connected with those empty seats by also being plastic and uncomfortable. >> this feels good being back in michigan. the trees are the right height. >> if he wants to win, he should do more of this regular guy stuff that he loves. he should eat hot dogs and say, i love hot dogs, they are just

the right length. the mustard is yellow. it's just the right color. rick santorum is confident. he's looking past michigan to his real opponent, president obama. >> he wants everybody in america to go to college. what a snob. >> what a snob. obama thinks everybody should go to college like he did. well pardon me, yobut some of u weren't handed the card. must be nice. >> great. that's right. another banner week for the clown show. if that's not enough, how is this for a negotiation? you can't have a rally without the right music? right? mitt romney wanted to bring it to them live and called on kid rock. romney had to make a hard sell to get the musician to sign on. here's romney recounting the ordeal last night. >> he said, if you're elected

president, will you help me help the state of michigan. i said i would. if you're elected president, will you help me help the city of detroit? i said i would. i turned to him and said, given the fact i'm willing to do those things, would you come here and perform a concert for my friends. i'm happy to introduce a son of detroit, kid rock. >> that just makes it worse. and now for the big number. we have heard rumblings about the bromance between mitt romney and ron paul. ron paul levelled a total of 39 attacks at his rivals over the past 20 debates. how many were a direct hit at romney? zero. compare that to the 22 times he went after santorum, the 39 attacks. and that's tonight's big number.

up next, regardless of who wins tonight, democrats feel pretty good about president obama's reelection chances right now. especially after the barn burner of a speech today to the auto workers. it's about the rebirth of the auto industry. he did better than a long time. do the republicans have an answer? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪ he was a 21st century global nomad ♪ ♪ home was an airport lounge and an ipad ♪ ♪ made sure his credit score did not go bad ♪ ♪ with a free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ app that he had ♪ downloaded it in the himalayas ♪ ♪ while meditating like a true playa ♪ ♪ now when he's surfing down in chile'a ♪ ♪ he can see when his score is in danger ♪ ♪ if you're a mobile type on the go ♪ ♪ i suggest you take a tip from my bro ♪

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i'm sue heerer ra with your cnba market wrap. the dow closed above 13,000 for the first time since may of 2008. the nasdaq adds 21. apple is holding an event in san francisco next week leading many to believe the company will unvail the new ipad. shares rallied on that news.

and an index of consumer confidence hit its highest level in a year. however, orders slid last month. and that's it from cn. and now back to chris. i got to get inside a new volt right off the line. and five years from now, when i'm not president anymore, i'll buy one and drive it myself. >> four more years. four more years. four more years. four more years. >> look who has wheels on his feet. that was a fired up president

obama being cheered on during a barn burner of a speech in washington earlier today. while mitt romney and rick santorum were out fighting to win michigan, the president was reminding everyone out there that he rescued the auto industry. can this message fuel obama's chances in the 2012 race? you bet. de de meyers and krip wilson is joining us. the president thinks this issue will help him. can you tell from the razz ma taz if it will? >> it puts him in a good position at the moment. he would rather be in michigan. he's talking about how he saved the auto industry. you have the two top candidates in michigan fighting each other over who would have let detroit

go bankrupt more quickly. you can see him feeling quite confident and having a gad time and getting a lot of love back from those uaw members. >> chip, he has an alley out there. he may do well tonight. saying that romney was dead wrong in the auto industry. >> i disagree with that. i want to disagree with the president talking about the volt. i want to get him to that volt as quick as possible. i would be happy to buy it for him if he's out of a job. >> let's get back to the facts, chip. is santorum right when he said it was a bad move to bankroll wall street and give nothing to detroit? that's what he's saying in the campaign today. >> i'm not a santorum

spokesperson. i think it's important to talk about the bailout in general terms. simply for this reason. i think it's government choosing winners and losers. and i think the president made a good political move in talking to the uaw tonight and getting the tv time as we talk about the michigan primary. but i think it's a short-term game, not a long-term game. why is a union worker in michigan more important than a nonunion worker in tennessee who didn't get a bailout? >> the bailout as president bush said that sometimes you have to put ideology aside and do what's best for the country. those were millions of jobs saved. whether they are supply companies or the restaurant on the corner that provides lunch for those workers. so certainly, there's that and it would have had a devastating effect on the auto industry around the region. so the president did the right thing. the results speak for

themselves. gm is back. hugely profitable. that's thanks to the president's willingness to take a political risk and do what he thought was right. >> obama did take advantage of michigan's primary bat ta to remind everyone he was fighting for the bailout while republican candidates were not. >> the other option was to let these companies fail. you will recall there were some politicians who said we should do that. some even said we should let detroit go bankrupt. you remember that. >> chip, suppose it had gone bankrupt. what would republicans be saying? >> i don't think it would have gone bankrupt. if you're going to a free market person, you should believe in the free market. if you think the government should take care of the

problems, you do what obama did. we don't know what it would be like on the other end. i would have much preferred, a lot 06 more conservative folks would have let the market work. i know the democrats say that didn't work. we don't know that because we didn't have an opportunity. and again -- >> who was out there to loan money? we had steve rattner on. he said where was the money? was anybody offering $80 billion to save the industry that you know of? >> i think at the end of the day, if you would have put this up for the private sector, the money would have been there. it may not been $80 billion because nobody has that much money. but i think at the end of the day, if you believe in free market, private sector philosophy, you have to let the market work itself out. you can't have government picking winners and losers. it's unfair for the government to pick a winner or loser in

detroit and let somebody fail in georgia or tennessee. >> that's the creative distraction that comes with the markets. but the people who worked on that auto restructuring will tell you is that they were mostly from the equity business. they called everybody. they went to everybody they knew. and they know everybody in the business. all the money was on the sideline. there was not going to be a lot of private partners jumping in to save the industry. chip is right. it looked very different. 1.4 million people would have lost their jobs. i think it's fantasy as steve rattner said that there would be a managed bankruptcy process. it wasn't going to happen. >> i couldn't disagree more. >> let's listen to the president here. let's see how he plays this one. >> i promise you this. as long as you have an ounce left of fight in you, i will have a ton of fight left in me. we're going to keep on fighting

to make our economy stronger to put our friends and neighbors back to work faster to give our children even more opportunity to make sure that the united states of america remains the greatest nation on earth. >> chip, here's your party's conundrum. you had a shot at winning michigan. we know that. everybody has been watching this thing. it's a difficult time for that part of the country. now you have the situation where the latest polling is like a 17-point spread for the president. doesn't it answer the question? he's won out there. >> it's a short-term win for the president. he gave a great speech today. he's a great speech giver. at the end of the day, when you talk about the economy and the private market, you're talking about jobs being created by private industry as opposed to government. people are going to rally around the conservative message and not the president's. it's a long-term loss for our country. >> you know what you're holding

right now? >> i think i know what i have in my hand. >> thank you very much. you have four as. places your hand well. >> one big reason president obama is doing so well among women is the republicans have turned hard right on issues like birth control and abortion rights. that's ahead. this is "hardball," only on msnbc. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship.

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here's a big chance for the democrats to pick up a seat in the united states senate. olympia snow of maine said today she will not seek reelection this year. snow has been a moderate voice. one of the last in her party. she was thought to be a lock for reelection up there in maine. despite tea party opposition there, the republicans were counting on her as they made plans to win the senate. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above,

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the issue of women's health coverage is also one that i take very seriously. >> welcome back to "hardball." again today, the hot issue of religious liberty and women's right was fought on the hill. that was kathleen sebelius testifying today. we just learned on thursday that the senate will vote on the blunt amendment this thursday. it's a bold challenge the obama administration's birth control rule and would allow all employers to reject parts of the health care law that run counter to their religious and moral believes. what are the politics in play and who benefits from a fight? today's new york times says they see benefits. it's a fight democrats are perfectly pleased to have. a new poll shows president obama's approval rating has gone up ten points since december among women. how will this fight affect the

politics of 2012? joining us is diane diget of colorado. and marjorie dannenfelser who is president of an organization who works to elect pro-choice candidates. i want to start with elected officials. let me ask you why it looks like to the press covering this the democrats are not running away from this fight. they are quite willing to get out there at the edge of this fight and face it down? >> the last i heard it was 2012. a year when 99% of american women have used or use right now birth control. they use birth control for family planning. they use birth control to do things to prevent ovarian cancer. and really out there where i live in colorado, and every place else around the country, women are saying birth control family planning are part of my

health care services. not just for family planning, but a whole variety of other reasons.reasons. and they are really kind of surprised that anybody would say that they shouldn't be provided that as part of their regular medical care. >> let's go to the other side. marg margie, assume you are here to make the case for both sides of the hill to off earth opportunity for employers to say, no, they don't have to pay for this kind of health coverage for women? >> that's right, chris. the gender war machine is revved up whenever is possible but this is an inappropriate time because really the lapping want that the feminist movement to use, who decides is a very appropriate question to ask here. should be a small group of federal bureaucrats along with president obama that decide what is religious institution and private institutions, for that matter, define as conscientious and a good thing to provide? should they be dictating what an

appropriately formed conscience looks like? 2,000 years of religious doctrine have gone behind the catholic church's view that abortive drugs, which this includes, and sterilization and contraception, is not within those moral bounds? no one is getting -- no one is getting in the way of women having contraception. it is only a question of whether institutions should be required to provide that and for sebelius to say you get a year to adapt to -- adapt your thinking to us is not in any way -- >> congresswoman what do you think is the politics of this? who do you think wins this argument with the american people? and it is an election year it is 2012. what do the american people want to come out of this debate, do you believe? >> i think the american people want reasonable health care for everybody. the institutes of medicine concluded that on a scientific basis, birth control was part of a women's regular medical care and that's why it was ordered to be part of every insurance plan. now, listen, the obama

administration made a very wise compromise, i think, and they said religious institutions don't have to pay for contraception, but the question is who's decision is it? i agree in one way with marjorie. she says she doesn't want a small group of people making decisions on women's health. i agree. i don't think that the u.s. bishops should be able to say whether millions of americans make the conscientious choice themselves to say i want birth control or not. and by the way, 98% of catholic women have used birth control in their lives, too. so, that's really what the issue is. i'm sorry that -- that it's being politicized too, because the way i feel, the way my daughters feel, the way every woman i know feels is that birth control, pregnancy prevention, is part of a women's regular health care. we should be able to get it as part of our insurance. >> explain this part to me, marjorie. suppose the ceo of a major american corporation was against birth control. he didn't believe it should be covered by health insurance.

could he decide on the behalf of his corporation that they wouldn't provide health care coverage of this kind, under your proposal? >> at this point, the only exemptions would be for -- >> no, but under your proposal? >> under the -- under the blunt bill in the senate? >> yeah. >> ceos would still -- they would be -- the exemption would be provided for anyone within any institution. >> any president, any ceo could just say -- >> the answer -- >> i just want the fact here. any ceo could say because i don't like birth control nobody that works for me is going to get that coverage. you thank you is fair legislation? >> i don't think that's actually what the legislation says. >> what is it? >> right now, the exensex for what the blunt bill does, it provides religious and privately -- private institutions to exempt themselves. >> that's what i'm saying. >> i do not believe this applies to corporations. let me just say this. no matter what the institution, it should-because if you --

>> okay. fine. >> i'm just saying that the -- >> i think the public understands this issue. ladies, thank you so much. i think they get it right now. thank you, u.s. congresswoman diana degette and margin denon "feldser. you are watching "hardball's" live coverage of the michigan and arizona primaries tonight, only on msnbc. en ieft my job, i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%.

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let me finish tonight with this, what is a politician? is he or she someone who has the natural touch with people, someone who can get people to go along with them, or is it a person who will say anything to get along, someone who will hide their beliefs, their strongest commitments in order to get people to like them? now, think about who meets that first definition, a person who can get other people to go along with them, he is so good with people, they find themselves liking what he has to say. i would say bill clinton, wouldn't you? nothing of the second definition, a politician say anything and admit nothing about their beliefs to get people to accept them, doesn't want to lead voters, just get by them? mitt romney. mitt romney. mitt romney. i think this is the reason why he is having so much trouble getting anyone excited about him. he doesn't like this thing, this campaigning, this asking people to vote for him. he wants to to be back in the board room where he can talk the way he normally talks, about having a couple of cadillacs, about liking being able to fire

people who don't deliver for him or he can rib somebody for wearing some cheap raincoat when he is sporting something just right. look this campaign is a real teaching moment and not just for republicans, it is teaching all of us the way these candidates look at things, the way ron paul doesn't believe in government, the way newt gingrich calls himself cheerful, even if he basks in his imaginings of world calamity, the way rick santorum sees the dominion of religion over the state you can the way mitt romney sees the world from a comfortable seat in the board room. some learn to lead, some learn to be led. romney spends these days learning not how to lead the voter but struggling to get by him and that has made all the difference it is why president obama, who has led this country through difficult times and taken the heat for tough decisions, will never be taken for a mitt romney. politics at their best use their skills to lead. they let you know who they are, not who they are not, because only if you get to know someone, with all their faults, will you take their word on those