thing's done. >> i think romney's got the delegates. i agree. >> that was your point. this thing's done. we have to pretend far while still, but. anyway, that does it for us. pim dylan ratigan. it all depends on ohio -- again. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris mathews. leading off tonight, people running for president. romney knows the business stuff. did the guy ever take an american history course? ever learn anything to say about this country if you just won a presidential primary? you're running for president of the united states, mr. romney, not for national consultant. and, yo, rick, senator santorum, you got the stump speech down. it's really solid. all economics now, real stuff. just lose that throw-up line

about jack kennedy for good. anyway, on to ohio for both of them and no excuses now. they've both got to win. if neither santorum nor romney was the big winner last night, who was? you could say president obama, whose standing in both states has risen while the gop candidates were trashing each other. and what of olympia snowe's decision to quick the united states senate? yes, it's becoming more toxic. from a purely strategic point of view, it means the democrats have a better chance of keeping control of that body. did the republicans not win their lesson from the contraception fraud or just not care? the gop is pushing an amendment now coming up this week on the senate floor that would allow all employers, not just religious organizations, so opt out of health care coverage on religious or moral grounds. finally, by the way, let me finish with mitt romney's vision problem. we start with last night. and santorum's blown opportunity. troy black supports mitt romney for president and tony perkins

is with the founding research council. the big question, gentlemen, is this -- did your guy -- put it this way. santorum was within striking distance, above in the bolls, winning the polls. did he boot it away or is romney fundamentally a stronger candidate and will eventually prove that? what happened this week in michigan? was it a one-time-only mistake by santorum talking about stuff he shouldn't have been talking about like throwing up over kennedy's 50-year-old speech and talking about things that weren't about job creation, or was it romney's the stronger and better candidate? you both have your chance. start with the interesting thing. was it a bad week for rick santorum or is he too loosey-goosey to run for president? >> i think he admitted getting off on the jfk speech was a distraction. >> lost the catholic vote. my crowd went the other way. he's catholic, which is a problem. >> got off the central message of both the economy and the family and those issues. but, look, he got half the delegates out of michigan. we're talking about mitt romney,

his home state, outspent santorum 6-1. it shows he's not a very strong candidate. i think this is far from over because on super tuesday you have a lot of southern states -- >> are you with him close enough to -- i thought his speech last night was very good. take a look first. romney said last night and what santorum said. start with romney who won the most popular votes by three points. >> i stand ready to lead our party to victory and our nation back to prosperity. this is a critical time in america, our time for choosing, and this time we have to get the choice right. i said it before, and i firmly believe it, that this campaign is about saving the soul of america. >> rick santorum last night what he sees are the big questions facing the country. a fundamental speech. let's watch. >> it goes down to the very nature of who we are as

americas. are we a country that believes in big government? do we believe in the smart and elite in this country to manage us? or do you believe in free people rand a free economy and building a great america from the bottom up? what do you say? >> you know, that was kind of a jimmy stewart "mr. smith goes to washington" speech last night from santorum, very effective, not quite as effective as the speech after winning ohio. but it was good. your guy, is he running for national consultant? there was nothing about american history, nothing about vision, nothing about when the united states as people, what our values are. all this sort of like i've got a business plan and if you invest in me i'll cut your death tax and alternative income tax and cut down your rates if you invest in me. it was a business proposition, wasn't it? is that what his plan is? >> it had some -- >> like what? >> the most important thing was he gave you a preview of the general election. he said more jobs, less debt, smaller government. as opposed to president obama, who's giving you fewer jobs, more debt, and bigger

government. >> how is he cutting the debt? i heard more tax cuts. where is the speech -- >> go back -- >> no debt reduction in that speech. >> he's presented plans for entitlement reform, social security, medicare, and he's promised to cut spending on domestic programs. i'll go back and add that up. >> i thought he attacked president obama for cutting defense spending. >> chris, mitt romney had a huge day yesterday. don't forget arizona. a landslide. 29 delegates. mitt romney got 78% of the delegates selected yesterday. he's now won 7 of the 12 contests that we've held. 40% -- >> but he won by ten points last time, his native state. you think winning by three points is a big win. >> rainstorm got the momentum for winning three events in one week. he targeted michigan, stayed there, campaigned and almost defeated romney and michigan but he didn't in the end. there are 20 events in march. rick santorum can't target each and campaign heavily in each. romney as an organization in each.

romney will have a very good march and continue to be the front-runner. >> does romney have so much strength in terms of ground organization, infrastructure, and money that your guy, santorum, can't match if he has a good week coming up? >> well, first of all, i have not endorsed a candidate so it's not necessarily my candidate. rick santorum more aligns with our issues at the family research count is sill. you get into the southern states, it will become more difficult for mitt romney. if you think -- he's running a general election in a primary. primary voters, 44% of those tend to be evangelical social conservatives. that's why i the he hasn't locked this up, hasn't convinced them he's their guy, that he will represent them -- >> let's look at the map right now. good point. you can see the map. 11 states will vote on super tuesday next week accounting for more than 4 pushgs de00 delegat. the northwest, alaska, idaho, wyoming out in the west, north dakota as well, oklahoma down there, tennessee down there, ohio for the northeast, and georgia down there, virginia down there, massachusetts up there, vermont up there.

a mixed bag. if you look at the bottom there, do you think your candidate will do well in the south? he never did before. last time around he got booted in the south. >> florida is a southern state. he did pretty well there. >> not in the southern part of the state. he lost the southern part of the state. >> every one of those states is proportional. all four of the candidates, mike, went at least one state on super tuesday. even ron paul showed in a couple states, especially alaska. what i will predict is this, that next tuesday, ten states, romney will get more delegates out of that day -- >> that's the way you count it. let's talk about the big states. >> and widen his already large lead of delegates. >> suppose it goes like this. we do politics here. take a look. newt wins georgia, okay? there's a close fight for tennessee. nobody really walks away with it. ohio goes to santorum. virginia, because nobody else is running there, goes to romney. vermont goes to romney. but you've got all kinds of action for oklahoma, north dakota, idaho.

idaho is lds. he could win there. >> he has a good chance. i firmly predict he'll win massachusetts. and ohio is going to be very close. santorum -- >> he's admitting to being governor of massachusetts now. finally. finally running on his record in massachusetts. >> i don't think he's got a problem in massachusetts. ohio will be close. santorum started this week ahead and it will be a close race. romney may well win. let me tell you something else. rick santorum made a huge mistake by playing ball with the obama campaign in a cynical -- >> how did he do that? >> liberal democrats to come into the republican primary and cast malicious crossover votes, and it worked. >> they were malicious. how do you know a lot of those people didn't just prefer santorum to romney? >> because -- >> it's not malicious. >> he's a weaker opponent. >> that's what your candidate said he did in massachusetts. >> a competitive network did dozens of interviews with these guys and they were union

organizers and -- >> your candidate is calling that a dirty trick. how is it if mitt romney did the same thing when he voted for paul saugus in '92? >> i wasn't there. >> he was there and said he did it. is that a dirty trick? >> i don't remember him saying he did it because he thought saugus was the weaker opponent. >> he did say that. is that a dirty trick? if he did say that, charlie, if he said, which we can prove, he did it in order to pick a weaker democrat on that side rather than clinton, is it a dirty trick? >> he did not pay for telephone calls to turn out hundreds of thousands of democrats -- >> i thought it was the principle of the other party. you're caught here, charlie, in a conflict. you're caught in calling your candidate a dirty trickster. >> my candidate cast one vote primarily. rick santorum paid for phone banks to turn out liberal democrats to cast -- >> he only had one vote, but he was playing dirty tricks. let's look at the quinnipiac

poll. fascinating. in ohio, santorum up 36% to 29%. he better hold it. all three of us agree. if santorum can't hold his lead in ohio, he's in big trouble. >> he's already in big trouble. >> let's look at the national gallup poll. it has your candidate ahead, romney, 33% to 25%, gingrich 16%. talk about gingrich. he's not represented in any matter. does he still matter? >> he says if he doesn't win his home state of georgia that he's going to get out. if he keeps his word and gets out and you add up the numbers -- >> of course he's going to carry georgia. >> i don't know. >> he owns the doughnut -- >> i expect him to carry georgia and expect him to continue on for a long time. he's entitled to them. been a lot of surprises -- >> you love him there. >> do the math. >> how is that bromance going with your guy, the other guy, ron paul? you like him? >> i've always liked ron paul. >> no one lays a glove on your

guy. talk act corruption. dirty trickster, supporting one. i can't believe you're guilty of that crime. not small potatoes. we count morality as very important. don't we, tony. >> that's right. >> coming up, the big winner so far in the republican race may well be -- i think you can look at the numbers. president looks like he's gained in all this mess. anyway, santorum and romney trashing each other. the president's standing keeps going up. is this good that the republicans keep doing this thing? this at&t 4g network is fast. hey, heard any updates on the game? i think it's final seconds, ohh, down by two, shoots a three, game over. so two seconds ago... hey mr. and mrs. harris, where's kevin? say hi kevin. hi. mom, put me down. put...the phone...down. hey guys. did you hear... the choys had their baby? so 29 seconds ago.

well we should get them a gift. [ choys ] thanks for the gift! [ amy and rob ] you're welcome! you're welcome! [ male announcer ] get it fast with at&t. the nation's largest 4g network. at&t. ♪ i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

big news. senator kerry in a race to replace the retiring ben nelson. he's the only guy going into -- what's the name of that place? the alamo. that's where politics begun. and olympia snowe's retirement gives democrats new hope to keep control of the senate. nalysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro. i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band.

[ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday.

welcome back. the headlines out of last nigh read "mitt romney avers a disaster," hard to claim you've had a major victory. the republican front-runner has survived but is a weakened candidate from february. who was the big winner in february? maybe it was the president himself, president obama, who didn't run for anything this month. as republican opponents were shooting themselves in their feet with independent voters and women over the auto industry bail owes which they opposed and contraception, which they opposed, the president has seen his numbers rise among these groups and is the strong favorite to win in michigan. even arizona is in play according to the latest polls

out there. so how is the dynamic of the race shifting since the start of february? well, michael hirsch is the chief correspondent for "national journal," and salange joan walsh is an analyst. i don't want to feed more ammo. i didn't mean to say these two candidates are necessarily against contraception and the bailout but they are partisan-wise on the wrong side of this baby. >> they certainly are. and, you know, they're wiggling around, but they clearly want to defund planned parenthood. they're clearly making these cultural war issues cue the campaign. you know, you really understand why they're doing it, chris, because you look at what happened last night and they're losing on the economic arguments. i mean, you asked who the winner was. i would say the winner yesterday was whoever scheduled that speech for president obama on the day of the michigan primary. >> it was a good speech. >> it was a beautiful speech. it was a wonderful speech. his heart was in it. he talked about caring about people. >> well, let's get right to the consultant's report we got from

romney last night. we're talking about two very different kinds of speech. one had music and leer schism and history and wonderment and happiness. the other was dead as a door nail. >> right. >> take a look at the two different speeches from yesterday. first of all, mitt romney after his victory in michigan, he focused on the president and his speech. let's watch mitt romney first. >> he's not spending our money or infringing on our rights, he's busy running for re-election. today we're $15 trillion in debt and real unemployment stands at 15%. you've heard that old saying about i need a vacation from my vacation? well, we need to have a recovery from this so-called recovery. >> earlier in the day the president gave what joan mentioned was a rousing speech to the uaw in washington, strongly defending his position to rescue auto industry, which didn't need much defense, given

the fact it's been rescued. let's watch. >> you know why i knew this rescue would succeed? you want to know? it wasn't because of anything the government did. it wasn't just because of anything management did. it was because i believed in you! i placed my bet on the american worker! and i'll make that bet any day of the week! the recovery is speeding up. now is the time to keep our foot on the gas, not put on the brakes. and i'm not going to settle for a country with just a few who do really well and everybody else is struggling to get by. >> well, if that wasn't a tour de force, i don't know what it was. it had a little bit of baptist preacher, a little bit of rah-rah and he was on the right side of history. >> it was a remarkable preview of what is most certain to be the general election, romney getting the nomination but fighting an uphill battle.

the difference in style and tone as you alluded to, obama almost, you know, in the tradition of the happy warrior, confident, yet he still has that style and charisma. he's not as popular among his base as a few years as president, but he still got the campaign style people so admired in 2008. and romney, again, you know, hesitant even in victory, you know, stepping all over his laugh lines and just -- he's got a long way to go to defeat this president. >> joan, how about the real musical back on broad kaye called "how to succeed in business without really trying"? the main song is "i believe in you." when i was in high school i saw that. or maybe college. i forgot when i saw the musical. but there he is giving credit to the workers, men and women, not to himself. >> it could be a campaign slogan. i think the contrast is that the president has come out being so optimistic, really talking about i believe in you and i believe in this country. and for the last few months, chris, it's felt like the republican message is i don't

believe in you and i don't believe in this country, i don't believe in a land where people can climb, i don't believe in a land where we have enough resources to create the engines of prosperity that created the middle clas. the middle class wasn't just born here. we created it. the president is using that language of opportunity and optimism and they've given it up. they're all fear and negativity. >> let's listen to something or read something i've got in front of me from john mccain, a republican, who ran last time against this president. here he is talking about the primary process and what harm it's done to his party's eventual nominee. he told the "boston herald" this week, a republican newspaper, "this is like watching a greek tragedy. it's the negative campaigning and the increasingly personal attacks. it should have stopped long ago. any utility from the debates has been exhausted. and now it's just exchanging cheap shots and personal shots followed by super pac attacks." now, that's pure john mccain. >> yeah. >> he hates big money in

politics, hates the pacs, the super pacs, and doesn't like this kind of talk. >> well, and this coming from a guy who, if anything, was even more mistrusted by the republican base when he was at this point in the -- >> he's a reformer. >> well, maverick. >> fieingold tonight. we're having them both on. >> it says a lot that mccain would say that. look, large chucks have been taken out of romney's hide. if he does become the nominee, he starts off weaker because of these really intense unprecedentedly negative attacks on him and the exten to which all of this has moved him further to the right on any number of issues. >> yes. look at the hispanic vote. we mentioned women. >> right. >> joan, talk about that. he's gone so far with this self-deportation thing he created. you just gave slogan to the president, which i believe they should listen. "i believe in you." that may be better than hope.

when you start talking about self-deportation of grandma who's been here 30 years, learned english, gotten you through college, let's kick her out of the country, i'm sorry, tell her to leave on her own bus ticket, what are we talking abhere? >> making the climate so horrible for immigrants they will leave. there's a whole theory around it that's quite right wing. it's not a funny word. it's an actual policy and program where, you know, they're passing all these laws to make people's lives miserable. and they're not going after the latino vote. it is their last stand. it's like they're writing off women, writing off latinos, asians, young people. it's the party of old white men. >> i'm not sure if romney believes a word of it. >> no. >> we don't know. maybe we should have lie-detector tests for these politicians. wouldn't that be interested? michael hirsch, thanks. thank you, joan, as always. up next, is mitt romney's bromance with ron paul on the rocks? two guy who is seem to be

working on the same team. in the works package, we change the oil we change the filter... tire rotation, suspension, we make suspension checks... what we have here is the multi-point inspection. every time a vehicle comes into a ford dealership you'll be presented with one of these. we check the belts, hoses... brakes. tires and the pressures... battery, all your fluids... exhaust system, transmission... we inspect your air filter... it gets done,it gets done quickly and it gets done correctly. the works. oil change, tire rotation and more: $29.95 or less after rebate - at your ford dealer. you're a doctor...

you're a car doctor. maybe a car doctor... that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. my high school science teacher made me what i am today. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪

how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. the strength of a leader in retirement planning. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you one-to-one. together for your future. ♪ chocolate lemonade ? susie's lemonade... the movie. or... we make it pink ! with these 4g lte tablets, you can do business at lightning-fast speeds. we'll take all the strawberries, dave. you got it, kid. we have a winner. we're definitely gonna need another one. small businesses that want to grow use 4g lte technology from verizon. i wonder how she does it. that's why she's the boss. because the small business with the best technology rules.

contact the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 1-800-974-6006. bromance with ron paul on the back to "hard-ball" for the sideshow. a walk down memory lane. while romney and santorum battled it out in michigan and arizona this week, newt gingrich had moved on to his home state of georgia where he might have an advantage over his rivals come super tuesday next week. in a speech he gave yesterday newt wasn't long before the candidate was gushing about those georgia roots of his, and i mean roots. here's one of the stories he recalled about him and a fellow college professor. let's listen. >> a really big tree that was dying. and it was angled towards his house. how hard can it be to cut down a tree? what we're going to do is tie a

rope about 15 feet up. and then we're going to cut the tree till it's almost ready to break, and then we're going to pull the tree in the direction we want it to fall. now, remember, i said, it was leaning towards the house. we're standing there. we're pulling. we suddenly realize that we're being pulled. the top of it hit the roof of the house. it's a concussion effect. dropped the plaster in the master bedroom on the bed. and the last thing we saw of kip that night was him running up the street with his wife chasing him with a broom. >> i guess mitt romney is starting to trend with all that talk about trees in michigan being the perfect height. anyway, next up -- what a stage story to tell even for newt. up next, no exceptions. after taking a look back at the 2011 republican debates we've seen so far, think progress reported that ron paul has leveled a tax on all his rivals except for mitt romney but ron paul has a new ad out now that

could quash talk of a romney/paul bromance. let's take a look. one is a serial hypocrite. another a counterfeit conservative. finally, a flip-flopper who's been on all sides. supported t.a.r.p. bailouts and provided the blueprint for obama care. three men, one vision. >> wow. there's also speculation out there of whatever word that ron paul has been laying off romney, not hitting him hard, to somehow fave way for his senator rand paul of kentucky to be in the front-runner's good graces down the road. here's the candidate himself taking on that question in an interview last night. >> i have my job, and he has his job. and that just doesn't seem to be appropriate. the last thing i've done is talk to mitt romney. besides, he wouldn't talk to me about that. it ee's supposedly promoted by somebody who's super involved in conspiracy theories. that's santorum's doing that.

my son can take care of himself. >> oh, god. every man for himself, i guess, including father and son in this case. up next, republicans are pushing an amendment out there that would allow all employers and employees, not just religious ones, to opt out of health care coverage on religious or moral grounds. if you say you have moral grounds. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if you took the top down on a crossover? if there were buttons for this? wouldn't it be cool if your car could handle the kids... ♪ ...and the nurburgring? or what if you built a car in tennessee that could change the world? yeah, that would be cool. nissan. innovation for today. innovation for tomorrow. innovation for all. ♪ innovation for all. 11 years playing the outfield, and i got no plans to retire. [ female announcer ] aging may slow a dog down,

but iams helps keep dogs playing year after year with our age-specific nutrition. and now, even for dogs 11 and older with new iams senior plus. it helps boost the immune response to that of an adult dog and helps fight signs of aging. [ dog ] i'll never be a bench-warmer. [ female announcer ] new iams senior plus. see the iams difference or your money back. [ dog ] i am an iams dog for life.

what makes us number one in motorcycle insurance? we love bikes. we love riders. and most of all, we love to ride. perfect hair every time. leading the pack in motorcycle insurance. now, that's progressive. call or click today. i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped.

man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. 'em seema moddy with your cnbc market wrap. the dow below 13,000, the s&p off six and the nasdaq topped 3,000 but ended the day down 0 points. stocks slid on comment from bank of america saying unemployment would continue to fall unless growth picked up. the beige book said the economy

saw modest growth in recent weeks. gas prices up for another 22nd day in a row, up 30 cents in the past month. that's it from cnbc. first business worldwide. now back to "hardball." >> when will my colleagues understand this very nondebatable fact? that the decision of weather a woman takes one medicine or another or what type of health care she should have access to should not be the decision of her boss. >> welcome back to hardball. that's the new york senator previewing the fight to come tomorrow when the senate votes on legislation sponsored by missouri republican roy blunt that would let anyone, employee or employer, opt out of pars of the health care plan inconsistent with their religious beliefs or their own moral convictions.

this gets to the heart of the fight over whether free contraception coverage should be required in the health care law. new york senator charles schumer opposes the legislation to basically give people the opt out. why do you oppose this? explain why you do. senator. >> well, let me say this, chris, that this legislation would allow any employer to decide what parts of health care he wanted to provide or she wanted to provide and what parts she or he didn't. and that is just totally against what we've had all along. it is an overly broad amendment. the president has come up with a fair compromise on contracept n contraception, which doesn't impinge on people's religious beliefs but lets the woman decide whether she wants contraception, not her boss. that makes eminent sense. >> let me go to senator hobin, thanks for joining us. republican. he's not here. well, i guess the question -- about this is the politics of it, senator schumer.

do you think this is a winner, not to be crude about it, but something democrats could be happy to run on? >> well, look, we think that the republican party has made a huge mistake. this issue has such force that it forced their leading presidential candidate to first say he was against the blunt amendment and then retract it because i'm sure he got a lot of pressure and say he's for it. this is so far over that the overwhelming majority not just of democrats but of independents are on our side on this issue. they understand that women have the right to decide what they want in their health care, not their employer, who claims a religious conviction, and, yes, i think they ought to do what they did on the payroll tax cut, realize their mistake, realize that they're so far over to the right that they're losing the middle. and back off. that's i think what romney tried to do, but then he got pressure and had to first be against it

before he was for it. >> the latest word, we'll clarify it perhaps in the next couple minute, but here it is, romney talking about it now. >> -- with banning or allowing employers to ban providing female contraception. have you taken a position on it? he said he's for that. we'll talk about personhood in a second. >> i'm not for the bill. the idea of presidential candidates getting into questions about contraception within a relationship between a man and a woman, a husband and wife, i'm not going there. >> well, now we're getting more recent reports saying he's for it, for the blunt amendment. that's already out of date. he's changed his mind on that baby already. senator schumer. >> exactly. exactly. he had to flip-flop. i think his original instinct when he was asked the question was correct. at most it would resonate with most american people, that it shouldn't be the congress here deciding or empowering an employer to decide whether a

woman gets contraception. and make no mistake about it. this amendment, if it passes, will, if the employer so chooses, ban contraception for millions of american women. that's going back to the 19th century. and it's fueled by a hardcore belief of a few, and unfortunately too many republicans are afraid to resist it. >> let's take a look at what scott brown said about this. he's a republican up in massachusetts. he's in a radio interview trying to cite ted kennedy's position on this in the past. >> like ted kennedy before me, i support a conscience exemption for-in health care for catholics and other people of faith. i believe it's possible to provide people with access to the health care they want while at the same time protecting the rights of americans to follow their religious beliefs. for me, it's a matter of fundamental fairness. >> patrick kennedy, obviously the son of the late senator ted kennedy, put out a statement

subsequent to that saying my father would have never supported this extreme legislation. just to clarify what scott brown said there, it just give a religious exemption but a moral exemption. anybody regardless of affiliation can say i don't really believe in that. >> correct. >> they're all out to lunch. >> exactly. >> no birth control protection. >> exactly. it goes beyond contraception. the motivation, i think, was contraception. and we're happy to debate that issue. but the legislation goes so far, if an employer says i don't believe in vaccination, you can't get insurance for a vaccination. it's way beyond contraception. >> in fact, you could say vaccination is dangerous, therefore it's a moral issue. you're right. thanks for coming on. earlier today, andrea mitchell asked maine senator olympia snowe whether she supports this blunt amendment to give this opt out to any

employer or employee based on any kind of moral concern. here's what she said, senator snowe. >> it's interesting we're having the whole debate on contraception and, you know, what should constitute coverage and what kind of role does the federal government play because i was involved in this issue more than a decade ago, and i did support a conscience clause and i was drafting one in the process. we never got to consider the legislation. so i do think it's important. i think with respect to the blunt aem, i think it's much broader than i could support. >> let's go to north dakota senator john hobin, a co-sponsor of the blunt amendment.support. >> let's go to north dakota senator john hobin, a co-sponsor of the blunt amendment. are you concerned that this is so broad that any employer could say i don't like birth control or inoculations, something that sticks in my craw, i'm going to exempt it from my coverage for all my employees? >> that's not the case. this is to give someone or an organization that truly has a concern from a religious

standpoint the ability not to have to provide contraceptives or sterilization against their religious beliefs. that's what it does. >> why does it say religious or moral? a secular morality. it could be a humanist point of view. is that okay with you as an opportunity to opt out on this? >> it's religious or moral beliefs, but they're going to have to demonstrate that under reasonable criteria. back to the point on contraception, this is not about not having contraception available to women that want it. that's certainly there. they can either get a rider on the policy to provide it or they can certainly get it from county social services if their income situation is a concern. it's not a contraception issue but a religious freedom issue.

>> if a woman is working for domino's pizza or comcast or general motors would like to have insurance coverage which includes birth control free without a co-pay and her boss says no because he says i'm against that morally, do you think that's okay? because the boss says so. >> again, there's got to be reasonable criteria, and that's exactly what we're talking about. furthermore, it's not about access to contraception. that's getting confusing. that's not the case, chris. >> but suppose the boss of a company is catholic and most of the employees are protestant, for example, or nonchurchgoers. you're saying that boss has the right to call the shots on whether birth control is covered by the insurance? you're saying that? that's what this bill does. >> if it goes against religious or moral beliefs -- >> the boss. >> they can't be required by the government to provide it. the employees have the option either to acquire a rider or get it from another source. so, again, the effort by those

opposed to the legislation, they want to make it about contraception, that's really not what the issue is. it's about religious freedom. you could extend this argument to many other things, not just contraception. >> inoculation. you know what you're talking about, senator. thank you so much. senator john ohio valley hoeven. up next, olympia snowe is leaving. she says it's gotten too toxic. don't you agree? we'll be joined by former wisconsin senator russ feingold, a real reformer, next. ♪ he was a 21st century global nomad ♪

♪ home was an airport lounge and an ipad ♪ ♪ made sure his credit score did not go bad ♪ ♪ with a free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ app that he had ♪ downloaded it in the himalayas ♪ ♪ while meditating like a true playa ♪ ♪ now when he's surfing down in chile'a ♪ ♪ he can see when his score is in danger ♪ ♪ if you're a mobile type on the go ♪ ♪ i suggest you take a tip from my bro ♪ ♪ and download the app that lets you know ♪ ♪ at free-credit-score-dot-com now let's go. ♪ vo: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™.

romney's three-point win turns out the on a draw. i look at her, and i just want to give her everything. yeah, you -- you know, everything can cost upwards of...[ whistles ] i did not want to think about that. relax, relax, relax. look at me, look at me. three words, dad -- e-trade financial consultants. so i can just go talk to 'em?

just walk right in and talk to 'em. dude, those guys are pros. they'll hook you up with a solid plan. they'll -- wa-- wa-- wait a minute. bobby? bobby! what are you doing, man? i'm speed dating! [ male announcer ] get investing advice for your family at e-trade. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro. and most importantly, its lobster. it's the tastiest, the sweetest, the freshest. nobody can ever get enough. [ male announcer ] it's lobsterfest at red lobster, the one time of year you can savor

12 exciting lobster entrees like lobster lover's dream or new maine lobster and shrimp trio. [ laura ] hot, right out of the shell. i love lobster. i'm laura mclennan from spruce head, maine, and i sea food differently. welcome back to "hardball." yesterday maine's moderate republican senator shocked everybody in the world saying

she's kuiing at the end of this term. after serve 3g 3 years in the u.s. congress, she won't run for re-election. she was expected to easily win her senate race. she wins by huge majorities all the time. she told andrea mitchell she'd grown frustrated with partisanship on capitol hill. let's listen. >> i've made the decision not to run for re-election in the united states and to pursue other tons outside the senate that perhaps i can give voice to the frustrations that, you know, exist with the political system here in washington where it's dysfunctional and the political paralysis has overstataken the environment to the debt detriment of the good of this country. >> i'm not asking you to make a parson judgment, you never do, but what does it say about the fact that moderates, ben nelson

from nebraska, a moderate democrat, or a moderate republican doesn't fit anymore, doesn't like it anymore? >> well, it's interesting. by observation and hearing member s talk about this, something that might not come to mind right away is the experience of being someone like olympia snowe on capitol hill means you spend a lot of time sort of out on your own island politically speaking. well, republicans would be frustrated with her, democrats would be trying to put a lot of pressure on her, even encouraging her to switch parties, always counting on her as a deciding vote. all of that pressure. so some of the sense of being able to get things done has probably been very hard for her to have here for a long time now. she's a very reasonable person to talk to. i've spent time with her back in maine in her home state. very popular, as you point out. it was a real stunner. we often use hyperbolic language talking politics. this shocked people. >> because she couldn't use re-election. >> i won't be absolute, but she

was expected to win, yes. >> let me ask you about this. this is calls for analysis. if you take away -- if you say there's no fun up on the hill being a moderate democrat or moderate republican, someone close to the center, that seems if they're not even going to like their own people in their party because they're too close to center, it certainly means they won't like any kind of compromise across the aisle. >> it's been one of the thins we've noticed over time, the sort of space that moderates in both parties occupy keeps shrinking and those who are left have even less coalition to build, making them even more isolated. we're just in a period where it is very, very difficult. when olympia snowe is gone, imagine the pressure on her state colleague susan collins, who often votes in a moderate way, or scott brown, if he wins re-election, he's in a tough fight in massachusetts. ben nelson of nebraska, a democrat on the more moderate sit side, he's not seeking re-election. it talks about the at fare of

the mood of getting things frustration is genuine. >> a lot of these guys are leaving. thank you, kelly o'donnell for your expertise from capitol hill. let's bring in russ feingold. he's also author of a bright new book out right now, "while america sleeps." i want to get to your book. first your reaction to people like snowe quitting. >> chris, good to be talking to you again. it's a real loss. she's one of the finest senators. a model of bipartisanship. she was a key to getting mccain/feingold passed. i served with her on the intelligence committee. there's a person who always worked across party lines where appropriate. she'd co-sponsor amendments with me that had to do with national security or civil liberties. and it's a terrible sign when a person like that who was reasonable. she was not an easy mark. she was hard to persuade. once you got her on your side it was enormously valuable. and my book is partly about this which is you start driving people like that away who are

willing to work across party lines on international and security and intelligence issues, we're losing something very important for the protection of our country. >> what do you make of the super pacs. you are the classic guy that wants to clean up this business of politics. it's not a business. it's about our democracy. what do you make about the fact the president is going to go to a billion-dollar campaign. the other party is going to a billion-dollar campaign and all this loose money coming in in big amounts. we used to call it soft money. now it's big superpac money. >> i support the president for re-election. i'm a co-chair of his campaign. i made it clear i don't agree with this. i think it's a mistake for the president and his people to go down this road. he is a person who really fights for the 99% and when you go and associate yourself with this kind of unlimited contribution, you are undercutting your message and you end up with something even worse. you'll end up at the congressional level with corporate democrats again as well as corporate republicans. we saw this movie before, before mccain and i banned soft money to the parties.

you get trade agreements that ship our jobs overseas, consolidation of the media and the deregulation of wall street. this all comes when people end up raising this kind of money, and i think it's a disaster for the country and i hope the president moves away from this approach. he doesn't need it. he can win without this unlimited money. people know who he is and know he's doing a good job. >> well me ask you about the democrats and the way they are running. a lot of evangelical christians that see the middle east in iconic terms. they just want -- it's always a big fight. almost a biblical fight with them. then romney who seems like a cerebral fellow making an ultimatum kind of statement. i don't know where i stand on this or where you stand. if i'm president of the united states, iran won't have a nuclear weapon. what does that mean? if this guy who is president today will have a nuclear weapon. this absolutist language, i don't know what it means. vote for me. i'm tougher than the other guy. >> it shows he's not serious about actually doing the job of a president.

he may be cerebral. why would he write a book that claims the president is always apologizing for america. that's simply ridiculous. that's not what the president of the united states has been doing. he's taken a serious approach. he's gotten some of the worst people in the world through military and other actions but has also reached now the a positive way to the arab world and cairo and indonesia and what you have here is a race where the republican party is basically made a mockery of foreign policy. they mocked the president. they mock his foreign trips and my book talks in great length and while america sleeps about this sort of sleeping quality that you put the american people and our government in when you don't take these other countries and these situations seriously. and there are serious threats out there including al qaeda or al qaeda-like threats in many places in africa. we saw this movie before. >> i know. >> senator -- >> how does this happen that we end up not seeing the signals again and having candidates for president who don't seem to care about it.

>> russ feingold, i hope you come back into politics. your book is called "while america sleeps." it's not winston churchill. it's russ feingold. thanks for coming on again. >> thanks, chris. let me finish tonight with mitt romney's vision problem such as it is. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe?

let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers. ♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. there's an insurance company that does that, too. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

let me finish tonight with this. people keep wondering why mitt romney won't say what he'd do in

simple terms to cut the debt. you know, the vision thing. just lay it out there. his big vision on how to attack what he keeps insisting is the country's big problem. the reason we haven't moved with a faster recovery he says. well, it's really quite understandable. it's called arithmetic. if you want to cut the debt, really cut it you have to cut spending big time you have to chop off government programs big time. what's he's going to chop off? defense? are you kidding? he attacks obama for shrinking defense spending. chop off federal interest payments on the debt? can't do that. it's called default. the fault is what we're afraid is going to happen in europe. what do you mean we can't pay what we owe? okay. eliminate social security and medicare benefits. can't do that. the government owes that money. and nobody is going to refuse to pay it. nobody. certainly not a republican given that party's record on social security. so what's romney talking about? what's he talking about right now? ear marks. another mickey mouse stuff.

again, why doesn't he come out with a big plan to cut the debt? because he doesn't want to. in fact, he's ready to go the other way and add to the debt. look at him last night. last night he went on television after the primary results to say he wants to eliminate what republicans call the death tax. what he wants to get -- he also wants to get rid of the alternative minimum tax. he wants to bump a 20% across the board cut in the tax rates to boot. that's also for the rich people. you know what that is? it's offering a sop to the big money people he wants to start ponying up to his campaign. did you notice how he laid out thauflt right before he read out the name of his website for campaign contributions. get it? it was a business deal. give a few thousand bucks to get him in office and he's going to save you millions in taxes. but didn't he say the big problem was the rising debt? well, last night he went the oppote direction. he pandered to the big boys to get campaign money to smother his opponents next week. the debt mitt r