to work which means "hardball" starts right now. let's play "hardball." the beat up goes on. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. leading off tonight to be continued. he won the most states. he won the most delegates. he even won the big prize of the night, ohio. so why does mitt romney still look like a big bowl of cold mashed peas to republicans? romney's argument seems to be you're stuck with me so live with it. not exactly the lift of a driving dream is it? the race goes on and on and guess what? the next few states favoring rick santorum. santorum might have a clean shot at romney if only newt gingrich would get out of the way. newt won his home state and nothing else yesterday so why is he staying in the race? meanwhile, over at team obama they're smiling i guess. i talked to david axelrod about the state of the race and

president obama's great fortune in having mitt and company as his opponents. and only opponents. and rush limbaugh keeps losing advertisers but wait until you hear which big name progressive is defending him. finally let me finish tonight with the lack of greatness in the republican presidential campaign as if you needed to hear about it from me. we begin with mitt romney weak in victory. chuck todd's political director and chief white house correspondent for nbc news and major garrett with the "national journal." thank you so much. let's take a look at the wicked national press reviews romney has been getting. his six-state win yesterday didn't stop the course of critics in the conservative press, quote, for all his technical proficiency and institutional advantages romney so far is the candidate of eh. conservative blogger eric erickson was no less harsh writing on red state, quote, were i mitt romney i'd be wondering how i spent 5.5 times as much money as rick santorum and barely won ohio.

i'd be wondering who on my campaign staff gets fired first. with each romney win he comes away even more badly bruised. the rest of march will be just as brutal. what a mess. an editorial in "the wall street journal" put it this way, quote, republican elites are aching to declare this race over and take aim at mr. obama. the hand wringing is fruitless. the voters are in charge. their split decision shows the republicans still haven't settled on a standard bearer. so there we are, my friend chuck, it seems to be the strangest race in the world. no matter how many races we have, it really doesn't seem to seem like anything we've had before. they just can't put their face into this guy and kiss him. they just can't do it. >> i hear you except, you know, you got to give him his due. we said he had to win ohio. he won ohio. we said he had to win a majority of the delegates. he won a majority of the delegates. he does have a delegate lead that if somehow santorum pulled this off he would do something

that no presidential candidate in the modern history of how we do this process over the last 40 years has been able to do. so he is a commanding front-runner now. all of that said, i think that what you're seeing here in the conservative press, among other republicans, is they can't believe that a guy who is this sort of -- has this sort of lack of a core base conservative enthusiasm, which clearly that is there, i mean, you know, even in ohio we saw that, how he is going to be the standard bearer for 2012. i think that's the issue that republican elites and republican activists and republican tea partiers have to come to grips with because guess what? he's going to be their nominee. >> who are these featureless young people waving those placards? i mean, are they androids? who are these people that seem thrilled? look at them. they all go up in unison.

they all put their placards up exactly the same way. they are all exactly in unison. is this north korea? who are these people? there's this kid in the white shirt and glasses. they all look like the perfect little kids in school with perfect attendance. who are these androids? >> well actually i think it's a pretty good description. these are the perfect kids. i think that's what you get at a rally sometimes. they get behind them. you're right. you point out another problem that i have found when i go to romney events, which is you don't meet people that will crawl across broken glass to vote for mitt romney. they're settling, there is no question, it's like the song that's in my head, if you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with. i think that's what a lot of republicans have to come to grips with. but again, you got to give romney his due. he did have a big super tuesday night. he won in a bunch of time zones. he won ohio.

yes by the skin of his teeth but he won it. and he won a majority of the delegates. >> he still looks like one of the figures at the half the presidents, one of those statues, you know, motorized. they stand up and wave. there he is with his wife. she looks normal. they turn around and wave to a crowd of androids who all look the same. they all put their placards up at the same time. he turns around and smiles as if he is connecting with them and he is clearly not a human being connecting with other human beings. look at this. is this real? >> chris, of course it's real. you may not like it. you may want to brand them androids but they are real people supporting a candidate they believe in and that's what the democratic process is all about. mitt romney does not have a backdrop problem, chris. don't think that he does. what he has is a republican party that is in transition and romney wins big where that transitional party is withering, the northeast, and he loses where that party is strong, the south and the west, with the exception of arizona. now, everything that chuck said is true. romney had a pretty good night

last night, but last night was an opportunity. the first he has really had in this race to definitively and conclusively wrap this up. not just mathematically but atmospherically and he didn't do it. the close win in ohio was not good enough. and i believe the loss in tennessee proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that southern republicans will not back romney even when they know instinctively, strategically the time to end this process is over and they'd be better off as a party strategically, their ambitions of taking the senate would be better off. the house would be better if they did. but they simply won't. they are resistant to romney. >> 28% seems to be his ceiling in all southern states. >> what i believe it is, fundamentally, is they do not trust him as a conservative. >> okay. >> and republicans in the south treat their conservativism as something that is -- it as principle to them and they look at romney and say across the board on a lot of issues you do not earn my trust. you have not won my trust.

and i am not going to hand it over. and a simple transactional way to you, just because it would be better for my party. so they're not thinking strategically. they're thinking personally and principally and in that respect they are depriving romney of what he most needs which is a couple victories in states where it is unexpected for him to win. romney wins where it is expected. he does not win big or at all or where it would be unexpected. that's his problem. >> santorum still has to beat, you know, i agree with major here and i think ultimately, you know, mitt romney, it would be better for his chances to unite the party, you know, rather than have a fractured party, to unite the party to win in a southern state to sort of erase this issue. southern state by the way not named virginia or florida, two states that are trending in different directions but sort of the deep south. but let's remember at some point rick santorum has to be, you know, has to knock romney down. he's had two shots at it, and

he's certainly bloodied him up in michigan and bloodied him up in ohio, but he hasn't knocked him out t's like the old -- remember in the old days of boxing, you know, to beat the champ you didn't get to win it by points. you had to knock the champ out. >> let me ask you about that. >> now he has to do it in illinois. >> chuck, you start. next week can we see a knockout? if romney can't win in either alabama or mississippi, and he loses to either of these guys, perhaps he loses one to each of them is he knocked out in the south? >> no, no. i think this is the reverse. it's an opportunity for romney and i'd say the opportunity is perhaps in mississippi where it's a little more of a machine state. >> yeah. >> where, you know, maybe the barber machine can help him out if he can cut that deal. you know, they've actually been a little hesitant to rally around romney. but mississippi, he's going to, you know, try to announce alabama endorsements today. if romney only has to win once in the deep south and we erase this conversation, but let's look at it through the other prism which is where does

santorum create momentum for himself? first of all, i think he needs to win both states -- alabama and mississippi -- he needs to sort of shove gingrich out of this race and gingrich, himself, has said if he doesn't win both he is not credible anymore. and then santorum needs to beat romney in one of these neutral site states. illinois is the next one. >> who is that guy clark down there who built that mississippi party years ago? remember that guy? clark something. i'll think of his name. >> okay. >> rick santorum was asked about comments from mitt romney's campaign that santorum would need an act of god to win the nomination. by the way, romney shouldn't raise the religious issue but here he is again. let's watch. >> what won't they resort to to try to bully their way through this race? you know? if the governor thinks he's, you know, he's now ordained by god to win, then let's just have it out. i feel very, very good that we're running a race, energizing people, the man versus the

machine. you know, they got the machine and they got the insiders and big money and we've got the people. >> why do you think this morning that mitt romney went on "squawk box" our sister station over at cnbc, major, concerning is it going to break his image as the business candidate for president? >> well, look. i think where romney's campaign is in candidate and with those who are advising him is they are in sort of a data bain capital mode. what i mean by that everything they said today was about the mathematics, the data, the numbers, and everything they said is true. that to obtain the proper amount of delegates gingrich and santorum have a much, muchl h d harder path than romney. that is true. there is something that is also a bit bloodless and that is why santorum really wants to portray this man/people against the machine. >> john henry against the train. >> i have to say i don't understand reinforcing the image, going on a channel that

is watched by the business elite of the republican party. that's his base. mitt romney was talking to his base this morning and, granted, i know he does have some fund raising that he needs to kick-start again because they're burning through money big time but it did seem an odd decision to talk to some of his base supporters. maybe his fund raising. you think that? >> i do think there is a little bit of a fund raising issue. i don't think mitt romney wants to write a check. i think that would reinforce every negative narrative that's building around him personally. >> let's watch. >> i think that's fraught with peril. >> i want to get on that show to talk about my book by the way but becky quick is on that show. let's look at mitt romney not knocking "squawk box." none of us are doing that. it's a great show. why is he doing it, reinforcing his brand? here he is talking about how he thought he'd wrapped up the nomination before the convention. let's watch him on "squawk bock." >> i'm prepared to fight all the way to become the nominee. i was pleased with our success last night. obviously we have a very strong

lead in delegates, a very strong lead in terms of the number of people who have actually voted for our campaign. we have the time and the resources and a plan to get all the delegates and we think that'll get done before the convention. one thing i can tell you for sure is there is not going to be a brokered convention. >> quickly, chuck, and then major, how does santorum win the nomination at this point? is there a root for this guy, chuck? >> i think it has to become this perception primary. and it goes back to what i was telling you using the boxing metaphor. he has to start beating him all across the board. when he starts winning he can't stop winning because the math stinks for him. he needs basically 2 of every 3 delegates from here on out so that means you can't stop winning and it would have to be this growing chorus of him just not losing at all to romney, no matter the territory. >> you know, chris, i've described on your show the difference between the two voting blocks in this primary process, the rals who have always been with romney and the notionals with anybody but

romney. what would need to happen for santorum is not only victories but victories that pull the rationals away from what they perceive to be the rational choice and make them notionals. i thought super tuesday would be the opposite that romney for the first time would persuade the notionals i've flirted with a lot of different republicans but it is time to move over to romney. it didn't happen in large enough numbers. for santorum to do this he has to reverse that trend. >> which rocky was it that the italian stalon went up against the android from russia? >> rocky iv. >> thank you, guys. >> and even that movie had a montage. never mind. sorry. >> they're not androids chris. they're real people. you may not like them. and they like romney. >> you have to be a real liberal to say that. thank you. >> good-bye. >> coming up why does newt gingrich think he should stay in the race? newt gingrich of all people. he won georgia, his home state, but didn't finish higher than third anywhere else. he's still in it. now the santorum campaign is working to get newt out so they

can be one-on-one with romney. makes sense. see if it works. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] capri sun has 25% less sugar than leading regular juice drinks. because less sugar is a better way to fly. ♪ just not literally. capri sun. respect what's in the pouch. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the typical financial consultation ttd# 1-800-345-2550 when companies try to sell you something off their menu ttd# 1-800-345-2550 instead of trying to understand what you really need. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 ttd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we provide ttd# 1-800-345-2550 a full range of financial products, ttd# 1-800-345-2550 even if they're not ours. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 and we listen before making our recommendations, ttd# 1-800-345-2550 so we can offer practical ideas that make sense for you. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 ttd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck, and see how we can help you, not sell you.

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we are staying in this race because i believe that it's going to be impossible for a moderate to win the general election. i would say with all respect to my friend from pennsylvania senator santorum there is a big

difference between being a good team member and changing the game. >> welcome back to "hardball." newt gingrich after winning just a single state in his home state of georgia. he vows to stay in the race. supporters of santorum's super pac say it's time for gingrich to get out. in a statement today to the red, white, and blue fund the santorum fund says, quote, based on his electoral performance last night and his out of step record it is time for newt gingrich to exit the nominating process. but the gingrich campaign comes right back at them. a gingrich aide says, quote, in turn, we can make the same argument. the worst part of santorum's analysis is he doesn't realize he is splitting the moderate vote with romney. i have no idea what that means. i'm taking sides now. with neither santorum nor gingrich backing down neither will get a chance to go one-on-one against mitt romney. our guest is a chief strategist for the santorum campaign and deedee meyers former clinton

white house press secretary. you're in this fight. this newt gingrich obnoxiousness of saying you're a moderate, what twinkie on his campaign thinks he gets away with calling your guy a moderate? a single person watching this show, not a single person, right, left, or center, nobody thinks that rick santorum is a moderate. why are they calling you that dirty name as far as you guys are concerned? >> well, ron paul a couple weeks ago called him a liberal, which in my mind a lot of people probably thought for a long time we should have drug testing, random drug testing in congress and i think it gave him a little more evidence or proof that we should. >> why are they calling you those bad names? you guys are hard right conservatives on cultural, economic, every issue. you're hawks on foreign policy. where are you in any way vulnerable to the nasty charge of moderate? >> well, obviously rick santorum is seen as a trusting conservative, tea party supporter, so you have somebody that is sympathetic to their views and so i think it's a ridiculous argument. but the one thing i will say is

this. conservatives and tea party members have a choice and they have a decision to make. either they're going to let the sort of minority in the party, the moderates, decide who ur nominee is which will be mitt romney, or they can unify behind a single candidate. i think if nothing else rick santorum has certainly shown in the last six weeks that he is the one who can go up against romney. and in that six-week period he won six states. he had a lot of close second places that went into overtime and, frankly, if all those conservatives and tea party would have been with rick santorum we would have won those. mitt romney, or i'm sorry, newt gingrich in that six-week period, he did well in his home state. other than that, in that six-week period his best finish was next to last. >> let me go to dede. you're watching from the sidelines. why do you think newt gingrich is in this race at this point? >> well, for the same reason that newt's done a lot of what he has done in his life because he has a giant ego. the guy does not lack for brio. as john just said he hasn't

finished better than second to last in eons and he still claims that he's the only guy that can beat and debate president obama. you know, i hope he stays in because he is totally entertaining. >> okay. >> as long as the race remains muddled it's good for democrats. >> i'll start with you. i want to ask you a real question. you get two guys really racing against this guy, your candidate who is santorum, and of course romney. your guy can't offer him anything to get him out of the race because you have nothing to give him. romney has a lot to give because he is the front-runner but he doesn't want him out of the race. he wouldn't give him a nickel to get out because he wants him in. is that a pretty good analysis? >> without a doubt. that's their worst nightmare. there was one state already, missouri, where newt gingrich didn't make it on the ballot. what happened? rick santorum won missouri by 30 points over romney and won every single county. the biggest fear i think that romney has is that if he -- if

this ever became just a one-on-one race with rick santorum versus mitt romney. >> okay. what happens here? i was looking at numbers last night. i had hours to look. romney can't break de de 28% in the deep south. you start in south carolina and work your way through georgia and over to tennessee and oklahoma. he never gets above 28%. one of these two other guys, since they're both going to be in the race, has to get well above 30 it seems to me because the romney money machine is going to go into those states and try to jack them up to mid 30s. isn't this race going to come down to a couple point next tuesday night whether romney can stay in this race in the south or not or whether gingrich can stay in the race at all? >> right. gingrich can stay in the race as long as he has enough money to stay in the race. he'd be out of the race a long time ago if it wasn't for one family. and i think we'll see what happens going forward. it's impossible to say whether he'll have to get out of the race. this is a totally new world in terms of where the money comes from and how it gets allocated. but look. what we're seeing is it's a lot

of regional candidates. if you looked at the map last night santorum was very strong through the mid dle of the country. romney was stronger in hate to say it moderate places but romney has won other places in the south if you count florida as not southern. three candidates represent three regions of the country and slightly different ideologies and we'll see how it goes. it is great theater for us on the president's team and the long ter goes on t longer it goes on the better. >> do you think they're being blown in the ear or whispered in the ear or whatever by saying, look, keep this guy gingrich in the race? >> that is the interesting thing about these super pacs. >> alison as smart guy. really smart. i met him once. he is very smart in his business sense. why is he backing a guy who ain't going anywhere unless there is some kind of rim shot bunker shot whatever you call it. what is going on? why does he want gingrich in the

race except to cut the advantage down for you guys? >> well, that could be. i don't know what the reason is. what i do know though is that mitt romney's super pack has spent over $30 million of negative ads. he outspent anybody and can't put anybody away. he out spent us probably 10 to 1 in ohio and it went into sudden death. i think that shows an enthusiasm gap for romney. that to me is -- >> you know what i think is going to happen? you guys are going to get offered the vice presidency at some point. are you going to take it? >> instead of biden? >> no. the vice presidency from romney. >> look. >> you're not going to take it. right now you're saying that? >> what i'm telling you is we've exceeded expectations all the way through. we've only had about 20 out of the 50 states even vote at this point. >> will you take the vice presidency or not? >> right now we're running for president of the united states. >> right now but when you get there, when that string runs out are you going to accept the vp? >> i'm going against your premise. nobody is telling me that is going to run out. if we get a one on one race with rick santorum versus mitt romney, rick santorum will be the republican nominee.

>> if is a big word. if is a poem but not a campaign. let me ask you one more time. is vice president of the united states your ultimate end game here? >> absolutely not. >> okay. >> presidents of united states is the end game. >> thank you. i hear you're a great guy and thank you, john brabender. i think he is a product of the jesu jesuits. dee dee meyers thanks for joining us. you can't beat newt gingrich for showbiz. a lunar colony. i guess he'll be the mayor. up next in the side show. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego.

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visit to the u.s. space and rocket center in alabama. of course there have been a lot of jokes about newt's promise of an american colony on the moon if he is elected president. remember the "snl" sketch that made gingrich the president of a colony far, far away. then there was this zinger from romney in a recent debate. >> if i had a business executive come to me and say they wanted to spend a few hundred billion dollars to put a colony on the moon i'd say, you're fired. >> wow. well newt hasn't forgotten romney's jab. or that shot from "snl." here he is yesterday at the u.s. space and rocket center. >> this isn't the end state of the space program. this is the launching pad for the next phase of excitement. governor romney said well if he had been in business and somebody came in with a big idea, that kind of idea he'd have fired them. i realize that he has said he likes firing people. i want to restate far from backing off i invite "saturday night live" to come here to huntsville to tape one of their

skits. if you're taping it at the space camp. >> there is commander gingrich. back to the future. next up yesterday may have been an important day for republicans but president obama is getting his own jump-start on the battleground states and spoke today in north carolina and didn't pass up an opportunity to ding his potential opponents at a manufacturing plant. let's listen. >> since i took office, america's dependence on foreign oil has gone down every single year. you wouldn't know it from listening to some of these folks out here. some of these folks. next time you hear some politician trotting out some three-point plan for $2 gas, you let them know, we know better. >> coming soon, the real face off. and now for tonight's big numbers, results of last night's primaries were coming in, each of the candidates took their turn at the mike to thank supporters and ramp up support for what's ahead.

how about some congratulations for the other fellows? here's mitt romney and what he said. >> i want to congratulate newt gingrich on a good night in georgia and rick santorum on his good night and ron paul for his steadfast commitment to our constitution. thanks, you guys. nice races. >> there you have it. well done i think. but get this. of the three other contenders how many extended a similar pat on the back to romney? zero. not even ron paul who many thought had some kind of bromance in the works with romney. romney snagged more delegates last night than his opponents but none through an election night congratulations to him. zero. that's tonight's big number. up next, advertisers are ditching rush limbaugh's radio show after his ugly attack against the law student sandra fluke and that's ahead. more coming with him. there he is bouncing away. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.he tourism season in years. all because so many people wanted to visit us... in louisiana. they came to see us in florida... nice try, they came to hang out with us in alabama...

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ditched the rush limbaugh show after limbaugh owes offensive attack last week on georgetown law student sandra fluke. today rush played down the feeling or the fleeing i should say of support. >> everything is fine on the business side. everything is cool. 28 sponsors out of 18,000. that's like losing a couple of french fries in the container when it's delivered to you at the drive through. you don't even notice it. none of what's happening is out of the ordinary. it's just part of an onslaught to try to convince you that this shows history. and our days are numbered. and i'm happy to tell you nothing could be further from the truth. >> and now rush finds himself supported by an unlikely duo, sarah palin of course, and bill

mahe maher. our guests are eugene robinson and susan milligan. i should say there is a lot of talk but here's what bill maher tweeted yesterday. quote, hate to defend rush limbaugh but he apologized. liberals looking bad not accepting. also hate intimidation by sponsor pullout. and last night on cnn sarah palin weighed in on the controversy. here she is. >> i think the definition of hypocrisy is for rush limbaugh to have been called out, forced to apologize, and retract what it is that he said in exercising his first amendment rights and never is that -- the same applied to the leftist radicals who say such horrible things about the handicapped, about women, about the defenseless. i think that's the definition of hypocrisy and that's my two cents. >> well, it's not bad for her. let me go to gene robinson.

your thoughts? i'll reserve my comments which may surprise but they'll be coming in a moment. yours first. pulitzer prize winning columnist gene robinson steps on the hot skillet of media criticism. >> i try to avoid media criticism. >> me too. >> it's not like we're short of media critics. it wasn't much of an apology. in fact, he apologized for the word choice and not for the bitterness with which he attacked the woman sandra fluke and, in fact, my colleague gene winegarten in an otherwise fairly scatological post on her website yesterday about the affair pointed out what rush limbaugh said was pretty close to slander in that he err oneroowerreo

nechlt usly stated facts. the central fact on which he built this was not in fact true. she didn't go before congress and say she was having so much sex that she needed somebody else to pay for it. >> yeah i know. >> so, clearly, i think the criticism is justified. i guess i understand why bill maher might think otherwise but -- >> you know why you think that, because you know pills like viagra are taken for each incidence of sexual encounter whereas birth control pills are taken on a time basis, a monthly or daily basis right? and he is assuming the more pills you use for birth control the more sex you're having. that was his erroneous stupidity, right upon which he built his whole assault on this woman. >> well, that plus the fact that actually if you look at her testimony she spoke of women she knows at georgetown who have difficulty paying for birth control pills. he made it a very personal thing

about her, which, again, if you look at the testimony she did not. so he was wrong on every basis. >> so wrong. then the bottom line is we've all said what we say and we say it here for a week now and it took mitt romney a week now to say nothing, susan. to me i'd like to focus on the politicians because they are the ones who we elect or don't elect. we have a real lever. don't vote for them. >> exactly. i don't think this has anything to do with rush limbaugh or sarah palin or bill maher for that matter. santorum is right when he said limbaugh is an entertainer and he is keeping this going now in a way and painting himself as a victim and that is probably going to help his ratings as well. that is not the issue. the issue is these presidential candidates and these leaders in congress who are so afraid of rush limbaugh, so afraid of alienating that wing of the party that they won't say what is so obvious that this is just an outrageous thing to say about any human being. it's not even about how you feel about contraception. i think they're playing a very dangerous game here because i think this issue has the

capacity to be the second coming of the anita hill controversy where women who otherwise might be attracted to a small government, fiscally conservative candidate or perspective are going to get so riled up at a bunch of men metaphorically patting them on the head and saying this isn't about contraception or calling them sluts or prostitutes or tolerating it. i don't think i can improve on george will who said when i think speaker boehner said his words were inappropriate, inappropriate is a word you use for describing somebody using the wrong fork not for somebody calling somebody something like that on the radio. >> it seems to me bill maher makes a point because of what he's been through. he talked about our use of stand back weapons in fighting terrorism and saying what makes that more courageous one way or another against the bad guys who are fighting who give their lives up in these horrible incidents that no one should be engaged in. he lost his job for that. remember that? >> yeah i do. >> i think he is quite aware he doesn't want fatwas being issued. he doesn't want people saying fire the guy. argue with him.

trash him. destroy him in terms of the public debate but don't go after jobs. >> well, i understand why he would say that. on the other hand, you know, i think that's kind of the way the free market in ideas and in talk works. you know, we go on the air and we say what's on our minds and we all walk a tight rope. when you walk you walk a line. and if you go too far off that line, the people can call you on it. >> yeah. we'll see. lots of ways to do it. you can go through boards, actually people not -- the best way is for people not to listen to a guy they don't want to listen to. thank you. what a strange comment for us. i don't like media criticism generally. up next the fight for the republican nomination has been a boon for team obama. i talked with david axelrod about mitt romney and company and how the president plans to run for re-election. let's get back to the democrats for a few minutes with david axelrod. this is "hardball" only on msnbc. ♪

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the primary calendar isn't favorable for mitt romney and so april 24th when five northeastern states hold primaries. we've got a new poll from one of them. new york state. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. here it is. in new york state the new poll, mitt romney up at 38. santorum at 23. gingrich at 13. so it's mitt with a 15-point lead in new york state but a lot can change of course between now and then especially if newt is no longer in the race. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "hardball." the obama campaign is waiting in the wings right now to take on a republican candidate. they previewed their strategy today in a conference call with reporters. early this week i sat down with obama campaign senior strategist david axelrod out in chicago to preview the fight ahead for the general election. i began by asking david about mitt romney and what axelrod has learned about him from this primary process. >> well, he's been a weak front-runner. i thought he was a weak front-runner from the beginning. but i think there are tests, campaigns test you. i've said always that there is sort of an mri for the soul and

people learn about you and along the way there are tests. we saw one last week when rush limbaugh engaged in that horrendous outburst against the young woman law student from georgetown. and the republican candidates were asked to comment on it. and romney first refusing them, finally just said, well, that's not language i would have used. that's not language i would have used? what about the essence of what he said? you know, he called this woman, you know, a prostitute, and he called her a slut. you know, and suggested that her -- she was trying to get taxpayer funded birth control and all of that was outrageous. the premise was false. and that was a moment where he could have stood up and been a leader and earned the respect of the american people. >> who is he afraid of do you think? >> rush limbaugh -- i think he was afraid in that case of limbaugh. as george will said, if you're afraid of rush limbaugh, how are

you going to deal with ahmadinejad and all the bad guys you have to deal with in the world? sometimes you have to stand up and these campaigns test you. there are moments like that. and this was one of those moments. he failed the test. so i learned that about him. i've also learned that the -- that he, through the economic nostrums he is offering he just offered a tax plan that would, you know, was very much like what we've seen in the past. it would add trillions of dollars to the debt. it would be -- advantage the very wealthy. it would occasion huge cuts in social security and medicare and education and allow the things that we need to grow as a country so theirs is a kind of back to the future platform and we've tested these premises and those premises have failed us. as you know, chris, he ran for governor of massachusetts as a self-styled moderate views. now he calls himself a severe

conservative. that's a big -- that's a big leap to travel. and it causes people to say, well, who is this guy? so you twin that up with an economic policy that conspires against the middle class, that will blow a bigger hole in our deficits and so on, and i think there's a great deal of doubt about him. now more than any i've seen for any punitive nominee in my lifetime. >> let's take a look at what he could do potentially. you must think of worst case scenarios. suppose -- bob woodward this weekend on my sunday show said, whatever you think of him, he'll bring in that whole 40% that hates obama, that republican angry base. they'll automatically vote against the president. suppose he takes that base and becomes more of a moderate in the general. offers himself up as a rational business problem-solver. on top of that right wing hatred, can he build 51% against you? >> look, anybody can win. we are prepared for a close, tough race.

we -- 47% voted against us in 2008 when we won a massive victory. so, you know, we have the wind at our back then. we don't have the wind at our back now. so we're prepared for a tough race. i think it's hard for him, though. because, you know, ultimately people judge who you are and look at what you are proposing. and the essence of what he's proposing is a repeat of what we had in the last decade. tax cuts for the wealthy. deregulate wall street. it's been a disaster for the middle class and a disaster for the country. i don't think that's a winning platform. >> i don't think he's defined himself yet either. let me ask you about his strategy. the campaign is effective in eliminating opponents. he went into iowa and ran a dresden-style campaign. basically erased him from the campaign. florida again. then did the same thing in michigan to santorum when santorum had picked up those three states the week before. we assume he -- you look at the spending patterns over super

tuesday this week, the same spending patterns. huge negative ad campaigns in georgia and ohio where his opponents have strengths. take that to the general election. you guys are going to be as well funded as him, right? >> we'll see. i thing super pac issue is one that concerns us. there are hundreds of millions of dollars allegedly pledged for negative ads in the general election through these super pacs. >> can you match the koch brothers? >> i don't think we can match them no. i think we can help offset that somewhat partly through the money we raise. you know, we've endorsed one super pac's activities and perhaps they can help close that gap. but there will still be a gap. ultimately we're going to make it up because people, a, know the president. the president will speak to them directly. he's not in the position that these other candidates were who romney dispatched with negative

media. and we've got an army of folks all over this country of volunteers who people volunteering every day who support the president and are carrying the message to their neighbors. so for every $1 that these guys run in negative ads, we've got people out talking to their neighbors, talking to their friends. >> i know that. >> it's an effect i've. >> i am on your mailing list. your social media is very good. but let me ask you about this. as an american, and i think you should be concerned as an adversary. suppose we have a battle of the super pacs whereby romney raises close to a billion with restore our future, their big super pac. and your side is able to match that but it's all negative. will that drive down the vote? will that suppress the vote in a way that not only hurts the country but hurts a moderate to progressive candidate like obama more so? >> we're going to run a positive campaign about the future of this country. we'll draw a contrasts, but the president has a fundamental vision about how to move this

country forward, rebuild the middle class, how to build an economy in which the middle class is growing and not shrinking. where hard work pays. responsibility is rewarded. everyone plays by the same rules. we're going to make that case, and we're going to draw those contrasts. i don't think a fundamentally negative campaign is going to win this election. >> that's an important interview. david axelrod from the obama campaign out in chicago. when we return, let me finish with a lack of great innocence the republican campaign this year. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

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this republican primary campaign lacks greatness. i keep waiting for someone to thrust to the front. say somebody vital and compelling and hear the crowd cheering with excitement. is this asking too much? is my heart so demanding that it expects each four years or eight that each of the two major political parties send someone to the floor who captures the imagination of the american people. no, i think hard. i think hard. since world war ii, tell me how many figures from either party has met this test? has presented himself or herself before the people and asked us to make him or her president. how many young stars have we seen flash across the firmament. since world war ii, start with the world war ii leaders, truman and ike. who are the young stars since then? richard nixon, hubert humphrey, jack kennedy. barry goldwater. that takes us into the '60s. in the '70s, carter briefly, then ronald reagan and finally

clinton, then, okay, that's a total of eight since world war ii. name some more stars. some heroes that have grabbed us with their magnetism. in this 21st century, obama and hillary clinton. ten possible heros to lead the country in over 60 years. scarce. and that's the word for it. scarce. so the real problem today, i think is the few young people willing to enter the derby to put their souls out there for our inspection and approval, for our excitement. and this, ladies and gentlemen is why we are forced to watch. for me, people like me to cover this sparse arena we see before us today. one lifetime wannabe who decided he wanted to be president after his father had failed. a couple of ideologues and an opportunist. not much of a field. the horror is not so many that so many will have to choose from among this tattered brigade fluting itself across the parade ground. the real horror are these four wanted to show up for muster. hardly anyone today wanted to be president. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with