good early spring friday afternoon. a little colder than it has been here in town. we're getting away with murder when it comes to new york. not terribly displeased about it. i'm dylan ratigan. nice to see you. our big story today is the jobs report for the month of february. to put it in context, let's borrow a bit from our friends at disney. ♪ tail as old as time ♪ song as old as rhyme we are creating jobs in this economy. 227,000 by a broken measure, but one we can at least compare to other similarly broken measures. it's getting a little better. the beast part, those numbers nowhere where we need to be. as we add more jobs, away is

revealed is the way we measure joblessness is wrong. as a result, we get more and more people showing up looking for work because as companies start hiring, people who are not counted as unemployed in the 30 million jobs number come out and join the unemployed, if you will, in search of work. as we try to get to 30 million jobs in this country, ultimately, we need to foster a culture that is driven towards collaboration and ultimately innovation to solve our problems and create jobs. something we'll be talking about this hour this afternoon. but let's start with the government's numbers. for that, we bring in our jobs report duo peter morey see and jared bernstein. peter, of course, more inclined to be skeptical of this data. jared has been the half-full

persuasion, which is why it's an enjoyable conversation. let's have at it gentlemen. we'll let jared start things off. >> look. i think we have a trend here now. one of the the things we were looking for in this monthly report was are you going to get what economists look at as a downside surprise? something that could kind of throw us off this bit of momentum that we have seen in the job market. and i take your point, by the way, dylan. i take your point about the fact that we are not growing fast enough. but at the same time, if you go back a year and average over the past three months, take that out, we were adding 150,000 jobs per month. over the past three months, 250,000 per month. the unemployment rate 9.1% last august. holding at 8.3%. so a favorable, solid trend. not fast enough, i agree on that

point. >> it's certainly not fast enough. but i'm quite concerned that the economy is slowing again. personal consumption has been flat lining for the last three recorded months. most economists expect growth below 2% for the first quarter. we know unemployment tends to lag. i'm concerned as to whether we can keep up these kinds of gains and where we go from here e. i'm concerned we're going to be going down to 150,000 a month. >> so here's the obvious concern. we all know that there's a huge swath of under employed and not using their degree, which is how we end up on our platform. that's how many americans are available as a resource to help us work that we're not ma any fest i festing. at the same time, we know we're in a presidential election at the time when the nation is changing remarkably fast. and the potential disruptions for all sorts of things are also

very high. what is an achievable thing for anybody in a political context to do to basically accelerate what i would call good job creation? jobs that actually solve a problem as opposed to jobs that get you a paycheck and keep you alive. so a question for both of you. what can we do right now to get good job creation that's achievable? >> first of all, political dysfunction is huge. these guys did come together on what they call the jobs bill. this is a few tweaks at the sec to allow startups to get more venture capital. i'm all for it. it's not going to show up in jobs numbers. we have a big problem and a big potential solution in this country that i think speaks right to the question you're asking. major infrastructure deficits. i like to talk about the public

schools. that could really take some energy efficiency right now. and a bunch of unemployed people who could do that work. a smart infrastructure program could put them together, but it would cost something and the politics aren't there. >> your thoughts -- actually, i want to stop there. this is a new dynamic. the need to make these types of changes. nobody wants to put up this type of money. >> let me say one thing. they are productivity enhancing. and if the capital markets were thinking clearly, they would want to see a healthier infrastructure. >> peter, your thoughts on this where jared has us? >> if we were to focus on the infrastructure that needs to be done, for example, on the east coast. i-95 it's politically correct to say we need to widen it, but we do because it's jammed up all the time. building trains doesn't help a great deal one of the problems

we run into is we have to divide it up by every zip code so everybody gets a piece of of it. if we were talking about investments to make the country more energy efficient, that's reduced our consumption of fossil fuels and really get serious about developing our oil and gas in the gulf, between the two of those, we can create a lot of jobs. also really getting serious about raising the mileage that our cars get. we can make changes in the automobile industry that are profound. >> and if you marry those two things together playing political strategists, you know, basically if we were to pursue an efficiency agenda in our infrastructure, then naturally you reduce the reliance and tension in the middle east. you create work in america. you release some tox city. it may be the least

controversial on some level. >> i totally agree. by the way, the president has very much talked about an infrastructure bank that's designed exactly to get around the problem that peter mentioned. the zip code-oriented ribbon cutting that screws up the way we distribute this stuff. i think that's absolutely correct. that's absolutely right. in terms of connecting this kind of thing we're talking about to investments in public goods that actually matter a ton for the private sector. there's a lot of research that shows if a private sector, guess what, trucks sitting idoling on broken roads doesn't help you. >> let me give you a project. for example, building out the use of natural gas in cities to drive fleet vehicles, taxis, and so forth. >> you're a fan of governments paying this to happen? >> it's going to have to be some sort of partnership. because if you create one

natural gas gas station, it doesn't do any good. you have to create a network so you can drive up and down the coast. i can think of places where we should do that where it would be useful, but immediately, the congressman from southern indiana is going to say why isn't there this in my corn field? these would be largely urban investments where the congestion and overuse of gasoline. >> at the end of the day, it's almost as if what we're asking for is a cultural shift as much as it is a policy shift, which is to shift to a culture in which we don't demand sort of blind equality, but we demand blind equal opportunity and proportional evaluation the same way we see in the hospitals. i don't treat everybody with the same treatment. i find out what's wrong with the individual who is sick and give them a customized treatment. i feel like we get lost between equality and equal opportunity.

>> nobody is seriously talking about we want equality of outcomes. but we certainly want equality of opportunity. by the way, that's missing. one of the reasons it's missing is because of the basic excessive levels of income inequality that rob opportunities from folks in the bottom half. we have a solid trend going on the jobs front. that's very helpful. no matter how you measure it, you want us to be headed in the right direction. but the bigger shifts you're talking about, i think they are critical for building a new economy. >> listen. i don't know if we solved any problems this afternoon, but we had an interesting conversation. i lrned some things. thank you, guys. hopefully our audience did as well. coming up, you have heard really what you can get into when you look at the american jobs market, but our friday mega pant about to weigh in the politics of this jobs game. it is a political issue for better or worse. interestingly, the states with the most job growth have one

thing in common. plus dishing the anger and searching for actual answers. two experts in the field of innovation tell us why creating a culture of innovation is so critical. more importantly, they are going to tell us how we can do it. all that and the talk we couldn't ignore any longer. drug tests for the jobless you say? how does that fit through our one set of rules mandate? we may be in our home base in new york, but the 30 million jobs tour never stops. much more ahead on this friday. we hope you'll come along with us for the rid. ride. ok! who gets occasional constipation,

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if you break down exactly where job growth is occurring, the map looks remarkably similar to the battleground maps. hard hit states like florida, nevada, ohio, and michigan are adding jobs. they also happen to be key white house reelection states. remember, these specific states and industries are the ones that benefitted the most from the bailout of the auto companies. along with the money that came from that settlement. our mega panel is in the house. it would seem a stretch to suggest -- i don't give the government enough credit to think they have that much power to pick where the jobs grow quite honestly, but it's a convenient benefit if you're running for president and the swing states are creating jobs. and beyond that, it begs the question as to the extent to

which the president can influence job creation. can they do it to the point they are doing it in individual states? i don't know. >> i don't think it's possible. >> maybe short-term. >> if he could cherry pick where he would have some impact, wouldn't it be with black voters who are suffering double digit unemployment? >> black voters are going to vote for him any way. >> you cannot be certain of that. they may not show up to care to vote. the rating he got last time helped push him over. new voters helped push him over in many states. so you would think if you had that pinpoint accuracy to help job growth to pinpoint voters, you would do it for them. but the theory -- >> i disagree.

if you had the pinpoint accur y accuracy, they don't have that kind of pull. what do you two think? >> i was actually in ohio over the weekend. i used to live in ohio in a very depressed area that hasn't had any good economic news in decades. and there the huge buzz was about the shale. that and the auto industry coming back. for the first time in decades, that area, unemployment is down to 7% which is unheard of in that region. and people actually have hope. >> but that goes to the conspiracy theory. if you make policies that bail out auto companies that drive themselves to the ground, you can save jobs. and if you are willing to extract natural gas, for sure you can create jobs.

those are not natural occurrences in an economy. when you look at where the jobs are coming from, it's not about this president. these are jobs coming because -- not because a network of people identified a problem in a community and is solving it in the hospital or school. whatever it might be. but because a policymaker said i as the king ordain unto thee the rights to extract gas and have money. >> quick point though. i don't think if the auto industry was in idaho, which is not a swing state, i don't know the result would have been any different. i think it happens to be located in swing states. maybe that plays into the political calculous. >> i agree with that. your thoughts though on a job creation universe where a lot of the jobs are being -- i don't know what you're laughing at. >> it's not a funny time. i think the basic illustration

that we're seeing is the difference -- >> she's still laughing. >> do we still have the camera on her? >> he was giving me a funny look. but i want to hear your insig s insights. please, go ahead. >> it goes to the gap between the national numbers we tend to look at. national unemployment and meetings and monetary policy. but the truth is fair or not, the elections are decided in a handful of states. the truth is, and this is good for the white house, even if they don't deserve it, they are looking at a bunch of states where people are going to feel day-to-day like things are getting better. but in michigan and florida, the numbers show things are locally getting better. and that's going to redown to the president's benefit. >> quickly. i have something more fun. >> if he could put together a candidate who regular people feel he understands me, then i would be concerned about this. but they don't have that person.

so i'm not as concerned as i would be. >> of course. another point of concern, is this talk about demand for drug tests for jobless. the suggestion being you're taking the unemployment money and using it for drug consumpti consumption. if you're unemployed you're more likely to be a drug user. the implication being that drugs are limited to things that are nonalcoholic prescriptions. and we don't test for those. i like to use the lens of one set of rules. sort of like birth control. if you're not going to pay for birth control, you shouldn't pay for vasectomies. if you're going to have drug tests for the unemployed, should you not have drug tests for everybody? >>s that very intrusive thing. and traditionally, if you want to go search someone's body or home, you need probable cause. there's a process for that. what you have in these states is

because they are giving out a small government benefit, some welfare or whatever word you want to use, they should get to go into your body and test you. the response to that is exactly what you said. if we're going to do that, we can do that for corporate welfare. >> the bank bailout. >> we want to make sure the management and ceo and the board. >> or the legislators that are getting tax dollars. >> i think that's the bottom line test. you see this hasn't made its way to the courts. but that's what is a standard analysis. >> i think the testing, the people wo who would give bailout money is excellent. but the potential probable cause is they are poor and unemployed. we have this demon nation blaming the poor. >> it's political propaganda. >> it insults our modern sensibility of being awake. realizing if you're going to do

any crazy thing, you have to think it through the one set of rules. two set of rules is the root of our issues. if you want a drug test everybody, you have to drug test everybody. >> this modern new normal, there's so many people who want to work, who are talented, who can't find work. how are we going to demonize the unemployed. you must be doing jobs. >> it's wasting our time with solving a problem that we don't have. there's absolutely no evidence to support the idea that the unemployed -- >> you could make an rgt thargu that while we don't have an issue with the unelm ployed, but america has a drug abuse problem whether you have a job or not. maybe they are saying they are really worried. maybe they are not making the argument. >> they are making the classic welfare stigma on people

unemployed. it's their fault. they are lazy. that's what this is about. it's political propaganda. >> that really is the point is what dylan and i are doing with a logical analysis still gives them too much credit. we're saying you're logically wrong as if they care about what they are doing. and what krystal is saying, to say that the people who need jobs are actually maybe on drugs. that's wrong. >> emotionally, it makes sense for the voter who they are trying to speak to that let's test them because they are probably smoking a bunch of weed. like yes, that makes sense. i don't want my good tax dollars going to unemployed people smoking weed because they don't have jobs. get out of here. >> or test everybody and consider everything a drug. you want to get into it, let harvard take tax benefits.

let's get after it. a lot of drug tests are coming. up next as we were just discussing, not every job created is the same. there are jobs that simply create paychecks and then there are other jobs that are actually helping solve america's problems. after this, awakening. wake up people. a new culture of innovation in america. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ [ female announcer ] nature valley granola bars, rich dark chocolate, toasted oats.

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back now. our specialist fosters and seeks to foster cultures of innovation, not just structures of innovation. he says it starts with the awakening that we have problems to solve. by tapping into the strongest networks of people around us, once we realize we have these problems, we can actually harvest solutions. gary schapiro is ceo and author of "comeback."

when we talk about the cultures of innovation, why is that first culture, which is how do i learn? what can i find out? why is that precursor so important when you look at places like silicon valley and others who are so good at this? >> i'm talking about the american culture. a nation of immigrants. our forefathers thought they could do something better. it's who we are. we ask questions in our school. we also have a first amendment that allows us to push back against the status quo. plus we're entrepreneurial. our kids have lemonade stands. and we have winners and losers. all that makes us the most innovative country in the world. it's in motion pictures and music and medicine and biotech. it's our competitive strength in the world. it's something we have to recognize as a tocountry and wo

towards furtherering. i think we're threatening it now by some of the things we're doing. >> how much does the government's willingness to run basically two sets of rules, one set for those who pay for tax favors and subsidies and structural benefits, and one set for those who don't? how much is the government's advocacy as opposed to transparency in all networks hinder the ability for the sort of people you're talking about to function? >> well, the government is doing some things right and some things wrong. today the house just passed a jobs act, it allows companies to start up and get money without a lot of paperwork. that's a good thing. we passed the free trade agreement. that's a good thing. >> the free trade agreement is not a good thing unless you're into offshoring to panama, which is the only reason to pass that rule. unless you're into rig trade with china. i'm not going do give you a pass on all those.

>> as long as you enjoy your smart phone and are using technology products, we're inventing great products here. i have been in those factories. it's not where educated americans want to work. we should be more like germany. high-skilled manufacturing. we haven't attacked the deficit yet. we have to look at that. and we have to go after skilled immigration. we're paying taxpayer money to train people from other countries that come here. we give them ph.d.s and then kick them out. that's not a good strategy to get the best and brightest and create competitors elsewhere. we want to have people here. >> hold on. i have three other people that would love to talk. the premise of this segment is theoretically a conversation. so go ahead, krystal. >> i was actually wondering. you mentioned that you feel like our students don't learn very well by wrote. they are encouraged to ask

questions from an early age. i was wondering if you could speak to that. i feel differently. i feel our education is quite outdated and focuses too much on that learning. do you see reforms that are encouraging or we need to push forward in that direction? >> well, i think we're going in the right direction where we're holding teachers accountable. at some point, we'll pay teachers differently. what we're doing is going in a way where technology can be used so is individualized learning. some kids are video. some are audio. but in terms of our culture, our culture is a good one for education. we just don't do wrote. some people are upset about standardized tests. but the asian culture are not create cannive -- >> hold on. but you have just gone on national television and written

off asia as a singular event, which i suspect a lot of asians might object to your willingness to silo them as lacking creativity on a global basis. we wouldn't say that all black people lack creativity. i see where you're going, but it strikes me as absolute. is that inappropriate to bring up that point of criticism? >> i believe in american exceptionalism and it's because of who we are. we're the most diverse culture in the world. cultures that are good at road. they do a lot of things better than us, but we should focus at what we're good at. i'm speaking in generality. s there's a reason that china is sending thousands of students to our universities. let's have them start businesses. let's not force our companies like microsoft to hire overseas

with our education and tax laws. it's encouraging this overseas development rather than invest ment in the united states. >> this is ari melber. i disagree with your notion of sort of a geographic determ nism. let me turn to a topic that i might be more interested in it your analysis. when you talk about networks and information flow, there are a lot of constructive networks. they talk about software community where people are creating value and sharing the value. or creative commons, which has multiple levels of sharing. what are examples of constructive or destructive networks you have looked at in your work that you think are related to what you're talking about? >> if you look at apple or microsoft or some of the most successful u.s. companies, when

these companies are being attacked abroad, which they are because they have closed systems, that's not a great thing for the u.s. we have every major internet company was started in the u.s. google, yahoo, ebay, amazon, four square, facebook, twitter. you can call those closecloseds. i think they are great and we should be supporting those companies. if someone else wants to come along, they can. there's low barriers for the interpret. we have to be careful before our legal system start attacking this because that becomes catnip abroad. what every other government in the world does, they protect their best companies. our government goes after our best companies. it's not very healthy. >> it's toure. we understand what you mean generally, but i want to talk

about the emotion of what you're talking about. there's this sort of undercurrent to channel anger into innovation. is it really anger that's holding the country back? or is more of a despair that's holding the country back? >> i think what you're referring to is irote a piece about the fact that americans are angry at the government because republicans and democrats have themselves in a corner and are not solving problems. republicans are trying to deal with the costs of entitlements and are getting beat up by democrats. so we're not dealing with the fundamental questions we have to deal with. the big one is the deficit. it's killing us. it will kill innovation in so many ways. when you have a choice, you can raise taxes, cut spending, or grow. and growth comes from innovation. that's why i'm focused on innovation. i think you have to do all three of those things. we have to hire political

leaders who are willing to ask the american people to sacrifice. none of them are doing that now. it's all promising you something they are not going to be able to deliver. we're screwing our children because we're stealing their future. that's stealing our ability and our strength as innovators. so let's focus on what we're good at. let's move forward as a nation. rather than hating each other, let's go back and attack a problem the way we used to do. against terrorism or something like that. right now, we're all fighting each other and it's very unhealthy for our economic future and for our children. >> all right, gary. thank you so much. appreciate your time today. whether it is a culture of innovation in health or energy, these are the kinds of conversations and debates that we all need to be seeking out. over the past couple months, we have had a lot of fun talking to folks about how to solve our country's problems. specifically talking about our book "greedy bastards," which we found out is going into its

third printing. monday we'll be in new jersey at bookends bookstore. more information on our website. next up here, with bacon and root beer floats and a battleground state. what it has to do with creating jo. [ female announcer ] the best things in life are the real things.

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as we're putting together our 30 million jobs show today, a local headline from ohio caught our eye. best and worst jobs in history. this list was made according to a group of 30 residents. the point is they got the best and worst jobs from 30 people. if you're not loving your own job this friday afternoon, take a listen to some of the jobs they had.

a bacon straightener. sometimes you had to add a slice or take one off to make sure the weight was right and you had to straighten it all up. another worse job, spending hours setting pins at old joe's bowling alley. which makes sense. and then there was a local jet who recalled a painful time operating a jack hhammer. he was so glad for the weekend to come. for the best gigs, one woman remembered her time as a car hop at the a and w root beer stand. and another locals favorite was working on the family farm. so in the canton repository story, my worst job was working as a baker's assistant from 9:00 p.m. until noon the next day in the winter. an hour south of canada where it was 40 below zero.

my best job should be obvious. spending weekday afternoons right here with you. hope you'll stick around. more to come right after this. [ male announcer ] this is lawn ranger -- eden prairie, minnesota. in here, the landscaping business grows with snow. to keep big winter jobs on track, at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone from field workers to accounting, initiate, bill, and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota, that's why there's guys like me.

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realities. professor ron adner is the author of "the wide lens." and professor, why is it so profoundly important not only to have an idea, but to have an idea what the broader network you want to develop that idea inside of is? >> because more and more ideas don't stand alone. we're not talking about ideas. we're talking about innovations. innovations depend on partnerships to deliver their value to the market. think about thomas edison and the lightbulb. what made edison was a genius was not that he invented the lightbulb or it's not that he made a better one than anybody else. it's because when he realized for this to be useful, i need to set up power distribution. because he was able to see this system and bring it together that he was so successful. more and more, we see companies innovating in ways that depend on these partners.

what we need for them to succeed is the strategies have these partners clear in focus. >> the interesting thing is that there's this layers in this conversation. but it suggests you could almost innovate not by creating anything new, not by inventing the lightbulb, but by finding new ways to relate already existing things inside of a network such that value suddenly explodes just by the nature of the relationships. am i understanding you correctly? >> absolutely right. there can be as much innovation in terms of reconfiguring elements as there is in discovering new elements. and what's even more fundamental is sometimes having come up with a greater innovation, if you haven't figured out how to reconfigure, no matter how great

it is, it's still going to fail. >> can you give us some examples? >> sure. so think about high definition tv. so sony and toshiba, they are racing each other to be first in creating a high definition television. it's an enormous challenge. but what you find out, the first one with a high definition tv has gotten first to the starting line of the race and the race won't start until we can create enough high definition content to make the purchase of high definition tvs worth wild. so here's a classic example of someone coming up with a great innovation but because they haven't aligned the other pieces of the puzzle around it. the one that wins the prize is the one first to put the full system together.

sometimes they put it together all themselves. sometimes it's a network they control. sometimes they just align. but nothing happens until the complete puzzle is in place. unless you see the whole puzzle. if all you're playing is your piece, you're setting yourself up to fail. >> i'm a great fan of jeremy lin, who is the young point guard here for the new york knicks. he proved during the benching of stooud mieer and carmelo a anthony, that he could run an effective network of group of people on the floor of the basketball court, even if those people weren't the best players in the league. and yet when carmelo anthony came back, the network didn't function as well. the ball doesn't move as well because there's a black hole where carmelo is and he ends up with the ball all the time. and the knicks lose because they are worried about the best

player. in the context of your theory, isn't it easy to get lost on the prestige on a piece of technology and get so obsessed with it that you do it at the x expense of the formation of the network as the knicks may be doing now? >> so i'm going to comment less on the knicks because i'm less expert, but your sbi wigs is exactly right. so i'll give you my characterization. usually in innovation, we're looking for a win-win. the customer wins and the producer wins. but when you move to this network, what you realize is there's more than just the customer and the innovator. and here, if you come up with a win-win/lose-win solution, you're dead. which the knicks example you're looking at. unless you restructure every one of these partners is getting their own sense of success in this effort, it doesn't matter that you did a good job on your piece. the network falls apart and

despite doing a great job on your execution, the system fails and you lose your bet. >> and by reading your book, folks can learn better not only what we're talking about, but obviously the real thing is not just to understand this dynamic, which is critical, but also once you understand this it dynamic, it is to be able to understand what decisions to make tactically in your day to increase your chances of getting a positive result. correct? >> absolutely. absolutely. so this notion of the wide lens, which is the title of the book is to expand your perspective, to see not just what your own innovation challenge is. it's not just technology. you're trying to come up with a new way to get your kids out of bed in the morning. that's an innovation. what you need to first see are the challenges that your partners will face. once you see that, the question is how do you create a system

where everybody wins by participating? what i do in the book is i've come up with this ten years of research in teaching and working with companies and experimenting to see what works is a series of tools and processes to help you see the system you're trying to assemble and come up with a right path for assemble iing it. >> i have time for one more quick example. that would be great. >> so everybody looks at apple and says what a great firm. look at their great products. what they miss is apple doesn't just make great products. it doesn't explain why apple's profitability is so much higher. if you look at the greatest success with apple which is the iphone, it's not what jobs did with the phone, it's what he did with the system. right? the iphone jobs thought was going to be a big hit. the raiser was going to be a big hit too.

but with the razor, they said they have a great phone. every operator line up and buy it. jobs said i'm only going to give it to one of you. and what this did was it changes the relationship with at&t. he went from being a supplier to a real partner. he's able to capture more profit. >> interesting stuff. and certainly great teaching for the modern day as the networks of people connect and continue to show more power. so wonderful stuff, professor. thank you very much. the book is "the wide lens." coming up here on "hardball," a look at the political strategy that is santorum's southern strategy. is he trying to kick out newt? gingrich says he's going to go all the way to tampa. next, it's friday. that means it's toure's turn for a daily rant.

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we are back. >> you have to be living in a jungle without internet access to not heard of joseph coney. he became infamous when a film detailing the war tactics was watched 50 million times since monday. in the film, we learned the real life horror story of coney who massacres with the help of child soldiers who he abducts to millions of kids killing or living in fear of being killed. we learned that jason russell's son thinks his dad is a hero. the film is emotionally manipulative. russell says he views himself as

the pixar of human rights stories. but everything through the air waves is the manipulative. information can fly at amazing speeds today where you can bipass all gate keepers and lure millions into a call to arms. never in history have individuals had so much power to use the media to attempt to change the world. yes, russell is tapping into the power of slacktivism. and yes, russell's aim is to make coney famous and does pressure the world into military action. which seems a danger tactic. public pressure should not direct the military. that's how we ended up in iraq. his movement may not lead to the arrest of kony. someone will do something he thinks. but this is an historic moment.

we see anyone can drive the media equivalent of a ferrari, meaning anyone can get information to millions in an incredibly fast way. the stop kony video is a rocket compared to the horse and buggy that was fahrenheit 911. 50 million people in a few days. the net allows us to be interconnected like never before. this is both hopeful and scary. the good news is there are no gate keepers. the bad news, there are no gate keepers. this is a potential renaissance and potentially apocalyptic. i can only imagine who will be the next russell and i can only pray they will use their power for good. >> this is one of those where the horse is out of the barn. in other words, the day of having to go to an editor to get the story approved. while it exists in all sorts of silos in new york and other places, clearly, it's possible to bipass all of that. you made the other point.

remarkable benefit in that. the judgment of the people that do these things is biassed. but there's no barrier from preventing anybody prosecuting any information they want. how aware do you feel that people in general are that this risk even exists? or the possibility or either side of this sort of new thing exists. >> i don't see people being aware of the risk, even now. even after we have had years and years of being manipulated and knowing we're being manipulated. to take this information from the video and were like this is horrifying. we have to stop joseph kony. but there's other ways to question the film. but he's a bad guy. >> if we're going to have a new power, we have to a