-open to find out how the gold card can serve your business. good morning. from new york, i'm chris hayes. fight continues on the border between gaza and israel. some of the deadliest violence there in more than a year. friday israeli air-to-ground missiles killed the leader of a palestinian militant group and assistant. they were planning a terrorist attack. there are reports of injuries. no deaths as of yet. israel says its missile defense system called iron done intercepted more than 25 projectiles. subsequent israeli air strikes reportedly killed 18 gazans. one of whom, according to a report this morning from reuters, was a 12-year-old boy. so happens we have already

planned to focus today on how american policies intercept with israel and the palestinian conflict. right now joining me today, we have author and journalist rula jebreal. the israel project president laszlo mizrahi and why street founder and president jeremy ben-ami. and it is wonderful to have you all here and obviously things are timely given what's gone on over the last 24 hours. last week, there was an actual meeting of aipac in washington. the meeting drew influential leaders of the american jewish communi community, full majority of members of congress and political leaders from both the united states and israel, president obama spoke to the conference. >> whenever an effort is made to delegitimize the state of israel by administration -- my administration has opposed to them.

so there should not be a shred of doubt by now. the chips are down, i have israel's back. >> i have israel's back. big takeaway line, binyamin netanyahu also spoke, discussing america's position on iran becoming a nuclear power. >> president obama has reiterated his commitment to prevent that from happening. he stated clearly that all options are on the table and that american policy is not -- israel -- israel has exactly the same policy. >> and then republican presidential candidate mitt romney weighed in as well.

>> my view is we have to communicate that we stand with israel. there is not an inch of distance between the two of us if we don't insist they make unilateral concessions those have not worked in the past. things are going to have to settle down and stand by our friend. >> to the casual listener it might sound like everybody ag e agrees. embedded is high-stakes campaign to influence military policy decisions that impact all of our lives. that was a striking thing as you survey this. as someone who, you know, i follow this issue but i am not embedded deeply in it. it is not my full-time calling as it is for people at the table. if you just watch the speeches at aipac it seems like there is a string of people that get up and say the same thing, more or less. there's huge reaction about the tiny little sentence said here and there. i was talking to a source of mine that said no, no, no, the big contest in this was whether to see if the president said nuclear iran or capability from nuclear weapons that netanyahu wanted to outline capability and went with nuclear weapon. so how -- what do you -- curious

what your reactions were to this speeches both of netanyahu and the president and given the fact you are embedded full time in monitor thing world. >> you know, i thought the president did an incredible job of walking a tightrope. he needed to show on the one hand he was going to stay strong on iran and nobody -- i don't think anybody at this table wants to see a nuclear iran. it doesn't make any sleep better at night. the president has to look very serious and say i do not have a policy of containment, all options are on the table. very presidential. on the other hand, he needed to be clear he would not be pushed into taking actions that 13,000 cheering delegates may have wanted to hear but then wouldn't have been in anybody's interest whether it is israel or the united states at this point. >> i thought there was this interesting line about loose talk of war that the -- line that he -- he said in an interview, jeffrey goldberg, and i think that there is a line about his speech or something about it not being a video game. do you feel like there has been loose talk of war as you watch

this debate of iran and israel unfold? >> i think there has been an exaggeration by the media that makes it look like israel wants there to be a war now which is a complete fallacy. what israel wants now is very, very tough sanctions and an opportunity for diplomacy to work and, yes, all options on the table but the goal is not to have to use those options. and by encouraging people to push hard for the sanctions knowing that there is not a lot of time before something needs to be done, militarily, that people need to avoid that military action through the sanctions. >> the report -- the reporting on this right is -- conflicted. i mean, we hear different difficulties about what is being communicated from israel to the u.s. government in terms of the desire for the strike, desire for green light for a strike. but also on the republican debate, right, there -- that side of things in terms of the language that's emanating from that stage is not yea sanctions. oh, i hope we can avoid war. it seems to be actually leaning

into it. right? posture of it seems to be leaning towards a military strike. >> absolutely. no question that the drums of war are beating. and the president was very clear that he does want to be part of that drum corps and he recognizes this bluster, this effort, to show that you are tougher than the next guy as a way of saying i'm qualified to be president. it is not good for israel or the united states. >> well, i agree. also, because if you are don't get the diplomacy on the chance and first time -- after this very hard sanctions on the central bank and on -- that -- really -- hammering their economy are saying that -- guys, we are ready to talk. you have the speaker of the house saying that. you have the president. you have even the supreme leader saying that. why not give it a chance instead of saying no, you know what, we don't believe they will accept any concession. to open up for, you know, open

up and show the world what they are doing. they never really -- they never -- iaaea, when they went there, never told them no, we are not -- will not open this facility or this other facility. iraq has a history with nuclear weapons and -- but they always -- whenever there is -- people going there to research, they always, you know, throw them out. iranians never did that. >> actually, i have to jump in on that. i'm so sorry. but the reality is that -- it is that i wish that that was true. the iranianses have -- inspections but have been very clear in not allowing the inspectors to go to very key facilities, very kilo indications, the ieae, the -- the -- atomic energy folks have been very clear in their reports and saying the iranians have been obfuscating the truth and hiding during the inspections. that's why they are condemned by the u.n. security council and the european union. >> sorry.

it is not -- iranians themselves are the ones that denounce they have new facilities. between didn't know about the facility -- we didn't know even the one they had in florida. they are the ones that told the world you know what, we are having new nuclear facilities in these areas. without themes denouncing that, the word we -- discovered that. >> go ahead, i'm sorry. >> i think -- you know, i think that's -- it is interesting to listen to how this -- have this debate because i don't think of the debate generally has been about what is iran's actual nuclear capacity, where does it stand on these issues, what is the real threat. the debate has been driven much more it seems by sort of this duel between is the u.s. standing close enough to israel. and i think that it is important to sort of unpack what this debate is about. there are a lot of politics, internal, domestic politics on the israeli side and u.s. side

that are driving -- >> on the iranian side. iran is also place that had politics, right? >> absolutely. pit personally can speak less to that but, of course -- what we are hearing is that iran is a divided country. and that ahmadinejad is increasingly isolated from the ayatollah. and there -- there is -- a lot of dissatisfaction within iran towards the regime. and iran is also -- has faced its internal uprising and oppositional movement. so -- that plays into it. >> can i ask you this question, jennifer? you said about the -- the media reports, contrary. there's actually desire in the israeli's government to seek -- diplomacy and a report about the -- netanyahu gave the president the look which is the story we just told. esther whispering into the ear of the king who wants to destroy the jews and a reported line he

said even then they wanted to wipe us out. this was reported. not said publicly by netanyahu. my question to you is -- there are two ways of considering iran and iran's nuclear aspirations and iran's positions to israel. one, fundamentally ea threat. the other is as a country with a set of interests strategic desires, rational calculations as to its best interests, it seems to me if you place into the former camp, it is very difficult to conceive of a diplomatic solution, if you concede of latter camp you can imagine that peace could possibly be made between the ayatollah ask israeli state as crazy as that may seem. which of those two natures of the i don't know government do you see? >> it is very clear ahmadinejad has said that he wants to wipe israel off the map. and that, yes, there is internal dissent in iran and there are different political players but none of those players are saying i want to give up the nuclear

capacity, none of those players is saying i want to make peace with israel. so it is a fight against a group of people who are extremes, none of which want to see the survival of israel. this -- >> peace possible with the current remember jaem? point is it the case ayatollah's end dash post-1979 iranian state is opposed to the existence that peace with that regime is never possible? is it a regime there could be some progress with? >> there are always rational actors that can come to the table. for example, israel had peace for 30 years now with egypt and israel has had peace now with jordan for 15 years. and just because it has peace doesn't mean jordanians or egyptians love the fact that there is israel but they are rational actors and they made a deal. the iranians are different. >> i want everyone to hold that thought. we are going to pick this topic up after this break. right after this break. ou need e care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way.

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i cut you off because hi to get a break. please say what you were going to say. >> i was answering saying that this is -- was the -- idea about -- the jews in europe in the '30s. you said about iranians. they are different and you can -- you know, most of europeans before world war i and world war ii used to say jews are different. they have a different mentality. they can't fit within the society. and they have international alliance. you know. this -- >> are you comparing jews in the 1930s to the iranians who killed americans in beirut, who killed people -- >> i'm talking about -- >> -- today supporting terrorists and shooting rockets into israel -- >> you are the one generalizing -- >> i think she's talking -- >> i'm talking about -- i'm

saying because this is really not the case. but what i'm saying -- what you are saying is what has been said in this country about black people for a long, long time. they are different. they don't fit into the society. you know what generalization never worked and it is actually who wants to -- withdraw or hold fear about let's bomb iranians because this is only way to deal with them. not on israel is very concern "usa toda today". the secret service, politicians, there are concerns with the borders. you think you can attack iran without having the proxy group or retaliation on all borders? it is the idea that -- israel will go to war with iran without -- without the consequences and it is madness. >> nobody in israel wants war. they want sanctions to work. this is the ball. it is no war. that's -- but right now today there are a million israelis in bomb shelters because of 135 rockets have been fired at israel in the last 24 hours. that is the reality. >> that's a different issue.

let's not mix things up. hamas. >> proxies. it is not iran directly. >> i don't think the palestinian resistance can make iran pro proxy -- >> governed by iran which is supportive of the same objective of destroying israel. >> islamists saying that hamas and iranians because they are muslim they are going to work in the -- act to attack israel. i should correct may self. it is not hamas firing the rockets. islamic jihad. >> palestinian ray resis tense committee as well which is the leader -- one of the leaders of whom was killed by the air strike. >> right. absolutely. so -- but i think what -- what rula is saying there is an unbiased debate iran won't act as a rational actor in this -- in this regional dynamics because -- essentially they are muslims. and i think that that -- >> not because they are muslims.

i have muslims on my staff. i have muslims i'm with all the time. >> i'm not accusing you of that. there is an element to this in the debate which is -- problematic. >> i think one of the things that -- plays into this psychology of this, it is not simply what israelis think or what americans think about iranians. it is really the eye coly of the jewish people and psychology of israel that's at play. i think part of the problem is that there's a sense that there's a threat everywhere at every time. >> reasons for that. >> the jewish people suffered a lot over the course of the centuries and millennium. but to see iran in its quest for status and its quest for regional supremacy may be one, regional power to see in that the jump to the -- they want to drop a nuclear bomb on tel aviv so that their entire country will be wiped out, i just don't see it. it doesn't make any sense given who the iranian people are.

>> in terms of the rational question, you were saying, there is -- actually a hearing in the u.s. the other day on capitol hi hill. it was a bizarre hearing to hold. we presumably are under the impression most done tress are fundamentally rational and maybe that's mistaken in certain cases. jeremy. >> they are rational actors. >> but the -- here's what i'm trying to get at. two things you are saying seems to be intention. diplomacy can work only on a rational actor. so if you don't think they are a rational actor but saying we hope diplomacy can work how can those two things be square? >> such a good question. the answer is that the rational -- the -- they are not going to be deterred by the fact that israel quote, unquote, has a nuclear stockpile. they need to have something that impacts their own voters, their own country which is the sanctions which will put pressure on them. hopefully they will act in the interests of their own people. just like the people in egypt,

ultimately the egyptians didn't say i want peace with israel because i love them. they said i want peace with israel because we tried to destroy them repeatedly and it didn't work. but at the end of the day we have nothing but evidence to go on and the evidence is that iran is behind killing americans in bay route. killing americans in afghanistan. they -- try to kill the saudsy ambassador in washington, just very, very recently. >> we don't know that. you are stipulating that -- we do not know that. >> tremendous evidence. >> we do not know that. >> jeremy said something vicinitying. the whole debate about the issue is not rational. we are talking about emotional here. i understand your fear. i understand it because live in that area and was raised and i was born and lived for a long time. it is about -- missiles in 1991 during the first gulf war. my whole building shook. we had -- bags, black bags, under the beds. it is because i didn't understand what the need -- it is for bodies eventually if one of us would die, you have to put them in and you have to keep the

body outside because you never know if the missiles there have the warheads where -- have any kind of substance. i mean, nuclear or biological weapons. what i'm say week need to be rational as a democracy. it is as cold reflection about each decision. you have to assess the risk and you will have to assess if the facts exist. 2003, we attack iraq on the same basis with iraqis and they have weapon of mass destructions, spend trillions of dollars, thousands of americans were kill killed. we didn't find these weapons of mass destruction. we destroyed a country and destroyed the world economy. >> hundreds of billions of dollars. >> talking about afghanistan and iraq. ten years, trillions. >> yes. yes. i want to talk specifically with you, jeremy, about your group j street and the politics of

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2008 american jews voted overwhelming for barack obama for president barack obama. jews one of the country's most liberal demographics. there is within the broad center of politics a tense discussion and dab about israel and the occupation. one group on the right, emergency committee for israel sought to exacerbate the tension among jewish democrats and liberal was a full-page advertise mmm "the new york times." ad accused two groups, center for american progress and media matters, being anti-israel wolves in sheeps clothing. listed phone numbers of main street's jewish organizations the eci accuses funding the two groups. they raise questions about the

boundaries and tolerated level eyed orioy ideology. some of the groups listed in the ad as having contributed for privacy and media matters, groups that run what are called donor directed funds which the donor parks the money with that fwrup and says what the do with the money. it would be like saying if i use my bank account at bank of america to give a donation to wikileaks bank of america is funding wikileaks. that's a factual matter about in of that. you are at -- in the center of exactly this debate. i wanted to get your response to this conflict that's opened up a bit around this. around center for american progress and media matters particularly blogs they hosted and have been critical of israel and critical of israel policy. it used the term in certain instances israel first and -- as a way of highlighting what they see as a diversion to the interest of america and israel and in advocates siding with israel when those interests

diverge. obviously that term has a certain kind of potency because of the historical legacy of accusations of dual loyalty that have been leveraged against jews going back hundreds of years and this has been part of the sort of conflict here. what's your reaction to this sort of controversy that's erupting? >> you think the important thing is that -- we shouldn't get caught up in a debate about any particular term. >> yes. >> you know, the issue is that do we have the space in this country having a rational conversation about policy in the middle east and what serves the interests of the united states best and what serves from my point of view the -- interests of israel best. and too often folks on the right try to use those kinds of attacks to shut down the debate rather than to engage in the debate. they try to smear groups that provide funding for places like media matters. >> you had been a target of a lot of this. >> rather than talk to us about what we are saying, we are saying that peace, diplomatic resolution on iran, two-state

solution. these are fundamental american interests and fundamental to the security of the state of israel in the long run. rather than engage in the discussion about those sort of things, people prefer to talk about particular terms of one blogger might have used on a personal twister account or talk about the source of the funds. that distracts from its mere wrors, the actual debate that needs to take place. >> why is that happening? >> why? because -- i believe that the folks on the right don't have any answers to the question of how can israel remain jewish and democratic state over the long run if there isn't an independent palestine moving alongside it in peace and security. that fundamental question has no answer from those on the right. they rather smear the people on the center and the left and say where do you get your funding and why are you using the words you are using to engage in the actual debate? >> do you -- think that -- is there a possibility, jennifer, you can weigh in on this. america has lots of allies and i

think it is fair to say israel is one of the strongest allies, great britain, canada, maybe top three, if you are going to round it out. obviously the allies interest diverge. canada wants us to build a transcontinental -- transcanada pipeline. we my not build it for political reasons. there is beef over there, different interests. we have had -- certainly have had fights with germany and france over the invasion of iraq. very, very -- is it possible for the interests of israel and america to diverge? just as a general matter, is it possible? >> of course it is possible. absolutely it is possible. but -- for my perspective i think that the problem stems from the fact that there is not a good positive outcome from some of the work that this -- this person is promoting through media matters because in my perspective, there's too much focus on the land and not enough focus on the ideology. in other words, i'm deeply, deeply concerned about the fact that the majority of palestinians who want a would-state solution wanted only as an interim step to destroying

israel. i think we need to build up mutual respect and recognition and there needs to be -- a look forward. not just a look back at the narratives. we need to solve security mutual recognition, dignity, water inning a respectful way. >> let's be clear here. this relationship, which is -- is it -- let's say unique relationship. the american -- it is unlike anything else because there is nothing like the experience of -- the state of israel. jewish democracy should design and american jews should support. that's the principle of how to interact and that seems to me a very cramped notion of how to go about having this debate. >> the notion that supporting israel means agreeing with the policies, every single policy of

every government of israel is absolutely ludicrous. what if you have a government from one side and then it switch tows the other side of israel. american jews supposed to abandon personal opinions? no. twhaep to see the americans play a firm role in end thing conflict. >> i want to point out that the -- the size -- problem with -- media matters and -- and cap was very -- an attack driven driven with the jewish american community and seems to be the struggle that's very much one between american jews and israeli jews and between just the jewish people. the palestinians are not part of this conversation. and so -- so the problem really is how committed are jews to the state of israel. i think that that's a very separate question than the issues that jennifer raises about the two state solution and

security, about how you approach and actually resolve the conflict. >> i think it is a really good point one of the things we observed and will be talking about this in the second hour, this controversy in iran managed to displace what was already a very small amount of space in the amount of space. more on that after this break. diarrhea, gas or bloating? get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. in here, the landscaping business grows with snow. to keep big winter jobs on track, at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone from field workers to accounting, initiate, bill, and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota, that's why there's guys like me. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪

israel, concession after concession, and israel facing let after threat, they deserve to know that america will be there to help secure. they are being surrounded on all sides by ensxhees have to worry about their peace agreement was jordan and with egypt and they need to know that they have got the -- the u.s. the superpower. the leaders of the free world being on their side and knowing they will not be destroyed as ahmadinejad. those in iran want to see them. wiped off the face of the earth. >> that's sarah palin speaking to fox news about -- israel -- a

year ago. and we were just speaking the previous block about the fact that its torecally jews have -- voted for democrats and have been extremely active in both causes. not to say every jew is liberal obviously but in terms of where they fall in the political spectrum as a group. and so -- so the -- the relationship between israeli and israeli policy is expected. the most interesting features of american politics as it relates to israel, i think, is the ways in which the bond between the american right and american conservatives, particularly american evangelicals, israel have come about in the last 20, 30 years. sarah palin here is obviously a woman who is -- a christian from alaska and who has an israeli flag in her office and which is, i think, safe to say 30 years ago the governor of alaska would not have had israeli flag in her office. maybe i'm wrong. joining us is zev chafets.

directed the israeli government press office. welcome. >> nice to be here. >> great to have you. so -- can we talk about how this -- the sort of trajectory of this relationship is political alliance that's been formed where you see -- charles krauthammer had an article saying they are conservatives in the -- and evangelicals. how did that come to be? >> first of all, the -- i think that charles is partially right if you quote him the right way, i'm sure you are. but there was just -- a gallup poll out at the beginning of march which i'm sure you all saw which shows that 80% of the republicans support israel and 71% independents and 65% of jews. which means that -- in mark, the -- in america, the -- i'm sorry.

i got that wrong. democrats. >> yeah, yeah. at a time when everybody -- no bipartisan here, nothing works, there's month center. this is issue was a consensus issue like almost no other. and the general -- who do you prefer in this conflict and whose side do you feel an feignty with. i don't think it is controversial subject to america. controversial subject for some jews on the left. like jeremy's organization. who are does affected or have problem was aspects of israeli policy. and counterparts and israel are not significant. israel write left now after the -- various -- you know, missile strikes from iraq and so is not a force in israel anymore. and -- there are -- significant enough to hear on the left. but -- christians very simple. from our point. >> let me stop you there. you said a bunch of stuff.

jeremy -- respond to that. >> i mean, first of all the question is what does it mean on support israel? right. i would say -- 90-plus percent of american jews support israel. the question is do you support the policies of a right-wing government of israel in our view, j street, are leading israel off a cliff by failing to resolve the israeli palestinian conflict, failing to reach a two-statolusion. this government policies are digging the grave with the state of israel. that's not supporting israel. that's undermining the state of israel. >> can i ask you this? it does occur to me like -- like so many debates about israel, it is grounded in the -- in the -- sort of special relationship and i wonder what you make of this debate you are having given the fact that -- we are not talking about palestinians at all basically. i mean, it is a hard thing to bring up. >> i think you make the point is that -- this seems to be very

much -- debate within the jewish community about how committed are you to the state of israel. and -- and -- through that process, you are bringing along different elements within the republicans and within the democrats and within the -- the general american public who are -- who are not jewish but -- to what extent is this a conversation that is relevant to american interests? >> well, were -- why does the u.s. have to be so committed to israel's security? it is a -- >> committed to -- resolving the conflict. what's in america's interests is actually to achieve peace for the palestinians and for the israel writes. >> soar write. >> i rejerk one point. >> i will let you make that point after the break. takes me outdoors. sort of a crisp, fresh feeling. [ facilitator ] go ahead and take your blindfold off. [ laughs ] [ male announcer ] the febreze set & refresh. breathe happy for 30 days, guaranteed.

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but what is the palestinian component of peace? we need to infuse that question into the discussion. >> is there an american interest in securing palestinian rights? >> who am i to say? >> well, you are sitting here on the panel. you write about tissue, spokesperson -- >> i don't speak for the american government. i think -- >> i'm asking you. the individual sitting here. >> sure. country decides their own interests. i don't suppose that american support for israels is eternal. it is -- i think it has been a constant since the following state of israel with the -- in the eyes of our administration, carter administration but not so

much. it is what -- the dark america views as its interests. and this is a bipartisan view. lasted over 50 years. not -- hurt or affected by the rise of the palestinian cause of the -- the rise of the iranian missiles or anything else. these are numbers that you look at from gallup. >> that's descriptive. i'm asking you a question -- which i think you are -- incredibly well-informed individual. >> emphasis on the word incredibly. >> no. i mean -- i mean, you know, i think that -- that gets -- i think this is a proffer octave point we don't discuss. is there an american interest in securing palestinian rights? >> i think there is. i think the israeli government shares that interests and articulates that interest on and on. we have a program where we work with the government of israel and trying to communicate the need for two-state solution and bet are future for palestinians and we do it in eyre arabic. we put up a website in arabic and had the prime minister of

israel, president of israel, president of israel was out in week with mark zuckerberg launching a new peace website. our website has 56 million hits, 300,000 friends, all arabs in arabic. >> i think this is why -- i do think this is why it comes back to first clip of sarah palin. because in the end, there is agreement in israel, agreement here, and agreement among palestinians two-state solution. there isn't a disagreement where we are trying to get. the question is how do we get there and what's missing is the political will. >> i think there used to be a consensus about a two-state solution. i'm not even sure if the republican candidates or sarah palin can say -- >> there is a small percentage of far right american politicians who have left the field in terms of the two-state solution. one of the reasons there is no more left in israel in the way he was describing it is because the two-state solution is so consensus. what you have is you have the right of center in israel that

today -- >> that strikes me as disingenuous. >> it is not at all. >> you have more knesset seats than atlanta brave on founding social democratic party of the israeli state got less seats. >> i'm not going to have to defeat that. >> even -- >> for two-state solution. >> let me -- can i talk about the ultimate -- you can put up websites and two-state solution without talking about the settlements. the fact of the matter is the word settlement has not entered our conversation and entered the -- just -- in a moment. i'm afraid i have to good-bye you, zev, even though you were here briefly. but thank you for coming. and -- maybe next time i will let you actually talk about the roots of christian zionism. >> okay. >> thanks a lot. we will be right back. help us with an experiment for febreze fabric refresher, they agreed. [ experimenter 1 ] relax, take some nice deep breaths. [ experimenter 2 ] at do you smell? lilac. clean. there's something that's really fresh. a little bit beach-y. like children's blankets. smells like home. [ experimenter 1 ] okay take your blindfolds off. ♪

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it just came to us. what? bundling and saving made easy. now, that's progressive. call or click today. it is a great booking that everyone should read. i feel bad i brought him on and couldn't dive into that. this conversation, we could do 20 hours on this topic and still not enough. people will be talking about

this literally decades. my eye pollees to zev chafets. israeli government is a multipartmentry system and just started talking about this topic. from material days, two dominated. labor party, founded zionist social ageneral that and second is likud with an aggressive focus on israeli defense. ending a 30-year monopoly on labor. in the 2009 israeli parliamentary election, likud candidate binyamin netanyahu won 27 of the 120 total seats. labor won 13 seats coming in fourth place with just 10% of the vote. in other words, i think it is fair to say that the right is on the rise and left is on the decline. center isn't holding. joining us from tel aviv, the general oversaw activities in the occupy territories following the war.

general, welcome. it is so good to have you. welcome so much. >> good morning. general, it strikes me that one of the -- there's two driving factors in the political trajectory in israel. one is the experience of the second anti-fatah. the second were 12,000 us israeli jews living in the west bank -- in 1980, now 300,000 or more than 300,000. how have -- how has the occupation affected israeli politics and israel as a whole? >> it is very difficult to -- it is very complex situation. israel of 1967 is totally different from israel of 2012. weir a relatively small

populati population, less than half of where we are today. we are very much united israeli society. united israel. any people. we are not -- we are not -- highly divided, extremely divided. and i would say that in a very complex situation with -- with the future -- political future, mill tan future, the social -- i would say -- complexity, totally different on what they used to be and i have no idea where were we going. >> when you talk about division, what do you think the source of that division -- that division is? >> well, it -- to say, one word, occupation. but it is much more complicated. and -- the complexity is not

only the occupation. the occupation gave rise to very strong feeling which affects a very -- perhaps small proportion of the israel write society but its activities -- its -- the -- the factor -- the facts that have been established on the ground, that have been established and it is not only the number that -- it is the spread of the settlements which literally makes -- if you ask me today the possibility of a two-state solution, palestinian states side-by-side almost impossible. >> why is it almost impossible? we are showing a map, by the way, that compares settlements in 1980 and 2012 on the screen.

why do you say that, that it makes it almost impossible? >> why? because i don't -- well, i don't want to blame only israel. it is both sides that i can blame. when i talk -- we are talking about i real. when i refer to it, when i talk about israel, i -- i don't see the possibility of an israeli government capable of taking the decision, of removing -- i don't know what the number would be. 60,000, 70,000, 80,000 settlers at least in order to break down the settlements, to -- and more or less a reasonable kind of border that can be -- can allow the establishment of viable palestinian state. and -- no israeli government, no israeli prime minister is capable of doing it. it will be literally a civil war in this world. >> i think there is a lot of

concern when sharon directed the full withdrawal from gaza and the disman mantled the settlements from gaza. obviously we are dealing with far, far fewer people. i think it was in the tens of thousands. but there was -- there was concern about that. whale there were some clashes with settlers, it -- it did come off maybe not in the way the worst fears about the level of resistance talked about. i want to get your sense of what can be done to sorted of keep this window open. if you are right the settlements are closing, the window on the two-state solution, what can be done to keep the window open right after we talk this break we will be back from general gazit. ♪

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from new york, i'm chris hayes. we are talking about the u.s., israel and palestinian conflict.

lela hilal and jeremy ben-ami of the lobbying group j street. i also have with me live from tel aviv, i believe, general gazit who is our guest. i just want to make one clarification on the graphic we showed. shows the amount of israelis -- israeli settlers over time. that includes east jerusalem. and the status of jerusalem is contested. it is part of the occupy territories in terms of being -- counting the numbers and it has been the site of some of the most intense conflict of our land now that in areas. general, i want to ask you what -- i left with you a question before we went to break. and -- i want to return to it. which is the window is closing, how do you keep the window open? >> well, i would -- emphasize

influence. first point is if were to be prime minister i would say these are the borders that i am suggesting to be the ultimate borders between the israeli state and palestinian state. and they should be reasonable borders. i would adopt more or less the borders that would go suggest that by the primary minister when he was negotiating with abbas only a few years ago. that's the first point. to know which -- what are the borders and nothing beyond it. point number two, i would say that as of this moment, not one single square meter will be built beyond these borders. and the settlements that are there and are going to move them. but not going to add anything, not school, not a kindergarten, nothing beyond those lines.

point number three, i would initiate the office compensation to any settler in the areas that are beyond that line who wants to move back, can be compensated and is -- offered compensation, just the way that settlers were removed from the gaza strip were offered compensation. so that we start a process, i would say a reverse process to what has been going on within the last 30, 40 years. >> general, i have -- jennifer laszlo mizrahi that wants to say something. >> general, your plan sounds very, vent interest i-- very in. the haejs that the settlers are the problem, in 2005 we were hearing the story. the settlements are the problem. when they pulled the

settlements -- sharon pulled the settlements out of gaza, today not one soldier or settler in gaza and yet right now, a million us israeli -- israelis into the bombshell terse. there has to be much, much more to the conversation than just land and settlements. it has to be mutual recognition, mutual respect and to the end of the violence. as we saw taking all of the settlers and soldiers out of gaza did not bring an end to the rockets and what will it take? >> i'm not going to offer you any suggestion that they will bring an end to the rockets presently. i am afraid it is a have -- we are still going to face a very long period of conflict between ours and the palestinians and -- let me remind you that israeli government has -- did not adopt my lee points, three suggestions. but -- i don't believe in peace

in the foreseeable future. i believe that in a political settlement with a lot of problems all along the time. if we go back to gaza, if we go back to sharon, sharon has saved israel from 1.5 million palestinians. and that's my major point. i want to ensure the existence of israel as a jewish state. and as a viable jewish state. and as a state in which we have more or less a confirmed strong jewish majority. 75%, 80% jews. that's what they want. not the kind of border that in which would will find ourselves with 55% jews and 45% palestinians. that's in the long run. >> generood morning, general. this is the major point, i think, that should trigger the

debate. whether we are willing to accept two state solution and do everything that it takes. and -- i want to remember jennifer that when you -- >> who is the we? >> both sides. israelis and palestinians. and -- when you talk about negotiating and making peace with the palestinians, he used to say this sentence -- i'm fighting terrorism as if there's no negotiation. and i'm negotiating as if there's no terrorism. that was -- strategy. policy that he always followed. he never stopped on that. another issue, jennifer, we have to understand what -- >> that's why he has been murdered. >> exactly. by a jewish guy after he said his last word -- where -- i am making peace, i'm not talking about it. another thing, with this -- settlements, not only the window is closing, there is one opening on the table. today honestly between us, the only option to have one state solution and i am not sure that you want one state solution or

jeremy or even the general, what he is talking about. preserving a jewish state. juan to preserve a jewish state, you have to give concession. >> just so everyone is -- >> two-state solution and once negotiations -- >> they want to build settlements. increase the settlements. >> this government, israeli government -- right wing as you are calling it -- >> this government destroyed 70 houses in jerusalem and jerusalem and pulled the neighborhood and many other neighborhoods. jennifer, let's really not give misinformation to the american audience because the segment -- >> i'm not. >> general gazit, you are not here and can't interject amoungamoung amongst us, i want to give you a second. do you want to say something? >> you see, the point is i started by saying i don't believe that there is -- possible solution today because neither side is prepared to make to pay the price necessary for two-state solution. neither israeli side nor the

palestinian side. peace is impossible in the immediate future. we have to look for a political settlement. i would say a kind of -- the kind of -- agreement we had following the war of independence in 1949, they were not peace agreements but they allowed both sides to live more or less peacefully p that's what i'm looking for. >> a tense cold war kind of situation in which there is not open violence but there is an equilibrium stable enough. it has been such a pleasure to have you on this morning. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we will be right back. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the typical financial consultation ttd# 1-800-345-2550 when companies try to sell you something off their menu ttd# 1-800-345-2550 instead of trying to understand what you really need. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 ttd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we provide ttd# 1-800-345-2550 a full range of financial products,

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we just had the retired

general gazit on. there's something about in the conversation about the future that's a common conversation but people aren't -- aren't embed medical this conversation, there is a demographic fear. this is the thing that structures the way this conversation happens which is that because of the growth of the settlements you eventually end up in a situation in which there is no viable -- for a state, palestinian state. because there are too many settlements. what you have is one massive land in which the demographic rates of reproduction are such that there is an accelerating palestinian population and eventually palestinian majority and you have a jewish minority ruling over a palestinian majority in the totality of land from the jordan river to the sea. that is the fear and tap you have a really -- have essentially the liberals say. you can no longer create a foundation for a jewish democracy. i just want people to understand those are the terms in which this is normally framed, i

think, if that's fair to say. jeremy, you wanted to weigh in. >> i was going to say that that is -- what you laid out is what is so missing from the miles an hour jewish conversation about what it means to support israel. because -- stepping back and saying that it is -- not going to happen and accepting what general gazit -- he made -- as an analyst may say that but as an advocate if you are watching your enterprise which is this state of israel essentially committing slow suicide over time, and you don't step in and say something with the behavior you are committing is leading to the very destruction of this dream that our people have had for 130 years, and it will not be there in the generation, if you continue behaving this way, if you don't step in, then you are enabling the suicide and you are helping the state of israel to -- to lead to its own destruction. >> i would ask the question -- we have had 20 years of this kind of argument where we have

-- essentially been saying we need the two state solution in order to save the jewish state. it has not produced a -- a result. israeli public is not motivated for the -- by this argument. so -- what is the failure? >> one reason they are not motivated is they feel america has their back. whatever they do -- every time they make an announcement about new settlements and every time they clear a neighborhood in east jerusalem and every time they do something that undermines the possibility of a two-statolusion, a little press release goes fraught the state department with a little we are not happy with you but there is month consequences and no meaning. so behavior goes on and on and on. what's needed is not more talks. what's needed is not 20 more years of sitting at a table talking. the united states of the international community stepping forward and as general gazit said and here is the border. it has been drawn since 1999. >> i think -- >> and geneva -- >> 1999. >> that's the point. right.

let me -- >> no one is talking about iran to try to distract from what's happening in jerusalem. people are talking about iran because there is a fundamental threat to state of israel and to the whole world. this issue of the settlements -- i want to bo back to what was said about the numbers, sheer numbers. first of all, it is a disputed area and many of those people live in jerusalem. what israel considers and what i would consider, a united capital and i'm very proud of the fact that -- muslims, christians and jews all from freedom of speech, right to vote and important rights and jerusalem, most of the settlements outside of that are right along the -- what's called the green line. so the vast majority could easily with land swaps in a peace agreement be part of the state of israel in exchange for equally -- equality, great land the palestinian could have in their state. as to the other areas, there was a complete total freeze of all building and expansions. >> there was not.

>> there was not. >> other areas. absolutely wasn't. >> i saw construction myself in the occupy -- during the settlement freeze. during the settlement freeze i walked up to the building. and saw it. anything that was started -- >> it took ten months. there were more housing completed during the year of the settlement freeze than any of the prior years. >> there was no starting of any new thing. palestinians should embrace jobs and not jihad. children and their schools should be looking at hope and not hate. we need to have israel on the maps of palestinian school books and on palestinian tv and we need to stop this palestinians names soccer tournaments after terrorists. >> can i say something here? i want to inject something we turn to this idea of jobs not jihad. one of the ways in which the last round -- there is this -- talks of the road map and -- was that -- palestinian has to build the institutions of the state and right.

they had -- palestinian authority has built the instay tuss of the state. there is general consensus about that and lots of frustration with the palestinian authority but institutions of the state were started. there has been -- not counting gaza. palestinian area in the west bank have not been -- a bevy of terrorist attacks. right. but so -- we are now at the equilibrium that those two things have happened and now at eke wquilibrium where no one ta about the palestinians. no one. now, whether it is intentional or not -- i'm not saying it is, but this is bait and switch in terms of iran. but the fact of the matter is the american conversation on this issue, if there are not palestinians blowing themselves up, then no one talks about them. and i think that's a profoundly proceed verse set of media and intentional incentives. i want to talk more about that right after this break. [ male announcer ] this is lawn ranger -- eden prairie, minnesota. in here, the landscaping business grows with snow.

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>> we have grown used to thinking of palestinians as terrorists or victims. israel claimed more than 120 rockets fired. the report said more than 18 ga gazans have been killed by air strikes. a discernible move towards nonviolent move often with the support of peace activists. in 2004 residents of a village organize ad protest against the building of a separation barrier by israel which would effectively destroy their village. here is a clip from a film of the resistance voiceover who brought face-to-face with the nonviolent action. [ speaking foreign language ]

>> build the security wall and the nonviolent was to obstruct the construction of that wall through those protests. success inspired similar movements in other palestinian villages. east jerusalem, which we were talking about, jennifer mentioned that palestinian, east jerusalem can vote in municipal local elections. they cannot vote in national electrics. east jerusalem resisting the takeover by jewish settlers in the homes. just this month israel agreed to release a palestinian prisoner after he engaged in a 66-day hung eer strike.

he is an administrative held without charge or trial on the basis of secret evidence. more than 300 palestinians held in detention by israel. his hunger strike became a cause celebre with thousands of palestinians protesting against his support. the group says that ten of its members have been killed in the fighting so far this weekend. now, i hadn't heard of these pockets of nonviolent palestinian since i went to israel and west bank and watched. what message is the u.s. media all of us here sending to people espousing nonviolence, fight for nonvilleens you will pay attention when you commit the most horrendous violence. joining us in the occupied west bank, a physician and member of the palestinian parliament and a leader of the palestinian non-violent protest movement. welcome, doctor. >> thank you. >> i want to start the conversation with the second

intifada which i think is seared and was -- the images of the american people because the violence of people blowing themselves up in discos was so abominable and visceral, from a moral perspective, i think -- i will say that it is just outrageous and unacceptable that kind of engagement but from a strategic perspective, do you see the second intifada as a strategic defeat for the national aspirations of the palestinian people? >> i believe that the right of the palestinians to be an uprising against occupation and segregation and -- military action. as i said in the most recent article in "the new york times," we used negotiations and we used every possibility but nothing has changed. that's why today that there is a

huge movement that i am a part of. that has been going on for ten years trying to resemble the best tradition of palestinian nonviolence resistance. in my belief, this nonviolence resistance is for the first time put into the palestinian cause in the right place. cause of justice and cause of people who are trying to be free from occupation and from enslavement or segregation and from enslavement from a pmoveme. also free israelis themselves from the last coal ownial settlse -- colonial system. today israeli attack on gaza unfortunately israel knows that all the palestinian groups in gaza have been committed to cease-fire. today's attack on israel assassination of leaders in gaza was in act in my opinion to press cipitate violence. israel could get away from the

image all over the world of an oppressor of -- practicing segregation. and the -- violence into the sect sector. nonviolence. bringing back cease-fire although we lost a team, palestinians including children today. and yet we are insisting on nonviolence. the violence israeli actions should not take us away from the path we have chosen which is nonviolence resistance. >> and that to me strikes the heart of the question. right? which is your commitment to nonviolence. and -- if it is that -- if the -- if the cycle of violence is that easy to precipitation, if nonviolence is to ultimately win out over violence, right, and -- then when a violent response is precipitated there must be a tremendous amount of self-discipline, tremendous amount of social consensus about the choices of how to pond to that. and 'tis it strikes me that's an extremely difficult thing to enforce because as we have seen,

despite the fact that hamas has been committed to the -- the -- cease-fire, the -- in the -- in gaza, we see 130 rockets being fired. and those -- probably aren't coming from hamas. the point is nonviolent consistent nonviolent message and effort against the occupation requires a level of discipline and consensus i think many israelis, i would imagine, don't believe exists. >> i think that they are wrong. the proof to that is what is happening in the left bank. we have seen total -- there hasn't been a single act of force of violence for the last years. and even hamas is committed to nonviolence. today gaza -- hamas -- today they announce d regardless of te killing of children in o the palestinian side, they announced the effort to -- to stay with the cease-fire.

of course, the one community should help us. the community should not stay silent with israel f-16 fighters. bombard us and not say that this is violence. and -- palestinian rockets an act of violence. both are violence. and -- israel is restrained by international community. not to use american f-16 fighters and not bombard gaza. not to bombard this tynely place surrounded by israeli military. then our chances -- of successes with nonviolence would be greater. let me tell you -- i believe that -- regarding -- regardless of violation and regardless of the provocations, the vast majority would stay with us. then a level of discipline that guarantees the continuation of the nonviolence which will breaux stronger and stronger. and the form of hunger strikes and in the form of the demonstrations, resistance, form of -- efforts to break the -- in

gaza. the ones we took to break the siege of libya against gaza people and fishermen not allowed to fish deeper than three miles in the sea. if they do so they will be shot at. against this israeli apartheid segregation system not only putting us into structures like this, a terrible one three times violent and twice as high, but more than that. it is a system that for the first time in the history of humans, desegregating roads. roads inside the west bank which are exclusively for israeli settlers and israeli settlers. if if we drive or walk on them we will be sentenced to six months in jail. since 2005, i committed a crime in the eyes of the israelis because i ran for president of

the palestinians and sent them -- they are preventing me to reach from visiting my sister. i will not accept that. i will defy it. we are talking about -- part of the occupy territories. it is a disputed territory. if these elms are disputed and not occupied jerusalem will be a disputed territory. west bank, disputed territory. the land of palestine including israeli will be disputed territory. the idea of two state solution is about a compromise. we are accepting a state in less than 22% of what we should have had which is 45%. yet we are accepting that compromise. to con a settlement is nothing but compromise the compromise. that's the problem. >> let me ask you to pause right there. jennifer, i know you want to respond. let's take a break. turn left.

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the whip as slaves and humiliation of segregation. it was not violence that won full and equal rights. it was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals and at the center of america's founding. this same story can be told by people from south africa to south asia. from eastern europe and indonesia. it is a story with a simple truth. violence is a dead end. >> that's president barack obama speaking in cairo the first year of his administration. calling for nonviolent resistance if will is going -- from the palestinians. and broadly in the arab world. not that this was the reason it happened but it -- what we have seen in this -- the arab spring is a remarkable amount of nonviolent resistance in all sorts of places, tunisia to egypt, very brave people in yemen and syria and libya.

et cetera. we have -- dr. barghouthi. >> i want to first congratulate you on the work that you have been doing towards nonviolence in the west bank. i think that's really important for both sides. it saves lives of israelis and palestinians. but when you were speaking about what happened in gaza you referred to the palestinians who died there talking about a 12-year-old boy. but what you didn't talk about was the fact that what israel was aiming at and successfully did was eliminate the threat of an act of terrorist unit that had been behind killing eight civilians recently in a lot and had also claimed involve in tid capping a shali and planning another attack. so the loss of the 12-year-old is a terrible tragedy. it obviously is and nobody wants that to happen but with this act

of terrorist unit that had already killed eight civilians was engaged in trying to do something else, what is israel supposed to do and what's your suggestion given that the iran backed hamas in control of gaza is not stopping these attacks and i know that your government, unfortunately, is not in control of gaza, i wish that it was but unfortunately iran backed hamas is in control of gaza today. >> let me tell you that -- nonviolence strategy is not just to do nonviolent actions in the west bank. part of it -- i'm very proud of that was to discuss and debate the -- adopting nonviolence strategy by all palestinian groups and one thing i am very proud of is that we managed to convince even hamas, even jihad, all the groups, to adopt nonviolence resistance and committed to that. and this new interaction and gaza was not involved. and there are -- ready now to go

back to complete cease-fire and that's a good sign. on the other hand, if israel continues to treat gaza as a ghetto, that it can enter any time at once and wants and can kill people there, assigning itself as the prosecutor and the judge and the executor at the same time, this is a criminal act. it is a war crime. >> but how is that different than coming to kill bin laden? bin laden killed people. >> no. no. israel cannot go inside these areas and just kill anybody and assassinate them. >> it was not just nub. it was terrorist who took credit for killing people. >> let me -- let me give you a -- let me give you an example. in ramallah, it is under palestinian territory. they invaded the cities. closed down two stations. two tv stations who were -- specifically broadcasting information about nonviolent resistance. who were democratic progressive

voices and that are -- they were big supporters of nonviolent movement. israeli army closed down the stations and embarrassed the palestinian authority in the west bank and ensured they were an authority without authority. you see -- we can not -- i have previously an argument about not possibility of having peace and we can have peace. it is impossible. either we have peace or don't have peace. can you not have half peace like you cannot have half -- what we immediate is real peace. and peace can happen -- if palestinians are in charge of their own territory, completely and fully with sovereignty. if israel has a claim it can present it to the palestinian authority. not to go inside, whenever they want. that is not behavior of a civilized country. >> i want to ask a provocative question which is i think there is a consensus when we have these conversations about peace, well, that this -- the current equilibrium is unsustainable

but -- gdp and west bank have been over 10% the last few years. this year dropped to 6%. if you go to ramallah it looks like a boom town. construction and -- all over. and -- is -- is it possible that -- the current status quo could just pertain out to the future? i mean, it seems to me that actually -- speaking to some israel writes and someone from the council when i was there, they sort of thought, well, maybe we can just -- this -- status quo can pertain and palestinian authority will maintain israel's security & there will be economic growth and that will be enough to sort of satiate the desires of the palestinian people. and down the road we will get to talking about actual self-determination but right now we can stay in this holding pattern. wane you to respond whether that holding pattern is sustainable. >> i am sorry to tell you what you just described is nothing but a recipe for disaster. let me first start by the whole nation of the development in

that occupation. it is true we have 10% growth. because of where it is. it came in big amounts. today we have the opposite. things are going bad. prices are very high. that people's income is very low. and as a matter of fact, according to the word bank statistics today, palestine including the west bank today has the sixth highest rate of unemployment in the world. if you take that -- age group that we have seen, the -- percentage of unemployed people is about 40% in the west bank and 60% in gaza. the foreign minister of tunisia, my friend, taught me that one of the main reasons of the revolution is that they had a very high percent aage of young people that were unemployed. that's the situation today in the west bank and in pal state of the union. second, the status quo is not to exclude gaza. third, status quo does not exclude the most important

vicious factor that's destroying the stability of movement peace for the future. and that is the growth of settlement. keeping the situation today or even negotiating while settlements con to grow is like having two sides negotiating over a peace of cheese, one side is stuck behind bars on, palestinian side. the other side, israeli side has access to the piece of cheese and eating it while we are negotiating. at the end of the day, there will be no state solution. there will be no cheese to negotiate. ands that our way. it is bad for us and as much as it is bad for israelis because -- if two states -- it is true, would be assistant apartheid, segregation. solution to which will only be one-state solution. there is only one way out of this. not half peace, not status quo. serious and clear pressure on israel. israel cannot be allowed to be impunetive to international rule

and cannot be allowed to help itself and its own people with this system of segregation on pay par tide. in the long run this would be harmful to us. >> i'm sorry i have to cut you off there. thank you so much for your time this morning. really appreciate it. >> thank you more on israel and occupied tef occupied territories and the united states after this. what if they were stolen from you? by alzheimer's. this cruel disease is the nation's sixth leading cause of death, affecting more than 5 million americans. the alzheimer's association has been behind every major advancement and continues to lead the fight against alzheimer's. we won't rest until we have a cure. join us. go to alz.org.  today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready?

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i might even let you win. zyrtec-d® lets me breath easier, so i can love the air. [ male announcer ] zyrtec-d®. behind the pharmacy counter. no prescription needed. we will return to our discussion of the israeli/palestinian in a moment. >> i hate to think even a second -- take a second away from this incredibly brave and compelling conversation you have been having the past two hours. everyone in this building is appreciating it. chris, we are going to dig into syria with andrea mitch they will morning. u.n. envoy kofi annan is on the ground there meeting with

president al assad and we will talk about whether there are strategies to end the killing of civilians there. we will take an honest look at the humanitarian crisis here at home. issue of extreme poverty. rise over past would decades in the united states and the -- mothers and children it's affecting and i'm also going to give a little tutorial on southern politics. and to lighten things up at least a little bit we are going to have margaret cho on the set that's awesome. >> pretty you a in. >> all right. i will definitely be watching. all right. jeremy, you wanted to say something. when we have these satellite conversations obviously there is a lag and it is -- much harder to interrupt so i wanted to give dr. barghouthi his due time. >> i want to jump in and bring it to the united states. you have an hour and three-quarters you present the two sides and have israelis and palestinians or jews and arabs going at it with each other. and the -- american public might

say well, you know, let them just -- you know, stew in their own juices. what's the american role in this? and so i would say that what's so critical, you have would sides and negotiating over something and complete disagreement. let's say it is a divorce. you don't tell me t angry husband and angry wife to get into a room together and figure this out in talks. they will kill each other. you need somebody actively sitting in the room and saying here is a reasonable solution and that's what the role of united states needs to be. the united states needs to build an international coalition and say we all know what the solution to this con fluk is. we all know how this will end if you want to stop having rockets and stop losing kids ask stop killing each other, and end this occupation, then here's the deal. we all know what it is. it requires american political leadership and that brings it back to first segment which is why don't we have that. because of the dynamics of american politician, we need to change so the u.s. can step in and stop the conflict. >> do you agree with that? >> i definitely agree. puts your finger on the nose. you -- listen, it is easier to talk about israelis, it is much easier. when i travel in israel and talk to the ex-head of the service p.

the general you yourself interviewed, they have a clear view what has to be done. you come back home to the united states and as soon as you mention two-state solution or dialogue or negotiation, they flip out. you look at the eye paaipac convention, the last one, what every republican is saying every day, we stand by israel. you stand by israel. stand for the security of israel in the long term because no solution means actually one state solution. >> aipac speech you referred to last year president obama mentioned sort of -- >> just kind of casually almost that -- the -- no one talks about those -- take that back. he mentioned the -- future two-state solution with anchored in the 1967. >> mutual -- he said 1967 mut uphrase. >> i think that the palestinians are welcomed to negotiations in the heartbeat of the palestinians and know very much that netanyahu would come to ramallah to come negotiate two-state solution and this is what needs to happen, is we need to have more negotiations and israel writes are red write to do it and don't need america to push into the negotiations. they are ready to do it and want to do it. the palestinians have insisted there be a freezes on settlements as opposed to going to the talks in the absence of any preconditions. >> if it -- if what's being negotiated with the land and you are building on the land, it doesn't strike me as a totally unreasonable precondition as a single precondition to say

actually the thing we are negotiateding over is this peace much land. you need to stop building on that peace of land when we negotiate. >> one of the things we are negotiating about is security and yet we have -- 130 rockets that were fired at israel in the last 24 hours. and can we get the rockets to stop? can we get all these? look, let's sit in a room and let's have open peaceful communication. let's create a possibility for hope and not hate. >> wane my guests to tell us >> wane my guests to tell us what they think we should know.t at the same time.

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>> and taking place throughout the middle ayes and north africa that's going to change the geopolitical regional architecture. and -- >> referring to the governments that have change. >> exactly. people are taking back more power and are going to be asserting their own agendas, whether it be flew palestinian nonviolent resistance, through egyptian people and trying to redefine the relationship with

israel. the commitment to peace treaty which may not. i think now that -- the american and israeli empire in the middle east are becoming obsolete which means that we will have to have come back and have a new conversation with new paradigms about how to resolve the conflict. >> what should people know? >> what should people should know is they wouldn't pro-israel and support israel and see it survive and care deeply about it, they have to become active advocates for an immediate end to this conflict in two states or else the state of israel will be locked. we are not doing anything to our friend israel and not helping israel to survive. all we do is write in a blank check and saw whatever you do is fine with us. that's enabling its own destruction over the long run and as the jewish and democratic state and friends of israel need to reconsider what it means to be pro-israel which means to advocate for a change in direction.

>> i want to thank my guests tod today. rula jebreal, leila hilal. thank you for joining me. next week for first time i will not be here. i'm taking my first weekend off in six months and asked ezra klein to fill in for me. we will be posting information about his show all week. up next is melissa harris pair write and we will see you next week. [ todd ] hello? hello todd. just calling to let you know i'm giving you the silent treatment. so you're calling to tell me you're giving me the silent treatment? ummm, yeah. jen, this is like the eighth time you've called... no, it's fine, my family has free unlimited mobile-to-any-mobile minutes --

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