it's a fun fact, not trash talk. what else you got, tower? >> i've got tabitha writes, please don't pick ohio state this year, you jinxed them last year. >> i got a tweet for you. up at 3:45 a.m. versus 4:45 a.m., time change fail. that's a big demo for us. people who didn't know the time changed so they're up watching our show. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ mitt romney won a key victory in the ohio super tuesday primary. narrowly beating rick santorum by just 1%. specifically the 1%. despite only winning the super tuesday primary in georgia, newt gingrich vowed to continue his campaign saying i'm the tortoise. i take it one step at a time. also, if you roll me on to my back, i can never get up. rick santorum today won the kansas caucuses beating mitt romney by 30%.

santorum was expected to do well in kansas because it's also a giant square. >> all right, everybody. top of the hour, 6:00 on the east coast, good morning. it is monday, march 12th, and we've lost an hour. wake up, wake up, wake up. with us onset, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. you're back. i haven't seen you in a while. >> i haven't been here in a while. >> okay. that makes sense. msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and former chief strategist to the mccain/palin campaign, steve schmitt. we'll talk about the movie coming up. and in washington, chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. very important day to have you on, as well. thank you for coming onboard early. we've got a lot to talk about. we're going to look at the races obviously, politics over the

weekend. we saw santorum win kansas, romney take wyoming and some of the territories and we're looking ahead to tuesday, alabama, and mississippi. and steve, of course, you're here, we'll talk about the reaction to the movie which still continues. but first, let's start with afghanistan. a united states army sergeant is being detained today after american officials say he went on a nighttime massacre over the weekend killing at least 16 afghan civilians as they slept in their homes. a coalition spokesman says the rogue shooter abandoned his post at a military base and walked to a nearby village. there he allegedly opened fire inside three separate homes killing as many as nine children, five other civilians were reported injured. president obama who was attending his daughter's basketball game personally called hamid karzai and offered his condolences to the families

and says the incident does not represent the u.s. military. but hamid karzai is demanding answers from the u.s. government saying, "this is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven." we're going to talk to our panel and start with nbc chief pentagon correspondent. but also the implications on our missions there in light of all of the aftermath since the koran burnings. >> well, mika, this was a 38-year-old staff sergeant out of ft. lewis in washington. who was on his first deployment to afghanistan. already had served three tours in iraq. when according to u.s. military officials, he walked off his base in kandahar at about 3:00 in the morning, walked about a mile to a nearby village and allegedly walked into as many as three separate homes and killed afghan civilians as they slept. the death toll according to afghanistan officials is 16 dead

including nine children, three women, and at least four men. those five that were wounded are being treated at a u.s. military facility there in kandahar. i've got to tell you, every u.s. military official i talk to sounded as if they had been punched in the gut. one used a word i'd never heard before when describing these kinds of incidents, dreadful. this was murder according to one u.s. military official. and while everybody is promising that this shooter will be brought to swift justice, we've heard this before, mika. >> we have. and, look, the headlines were crossing yesterday and i was watching people reacting to this thinking why are we still there? why haven't we pulled back? i asked the question again in a different way and show you "washington post" abc news polls showing 60% of americans no longer support the war nearly

doubling the 35% saying it's been worth the cause. asking whether forces should stay until they're trained or withdraw now. 43% say keep forces until the afghan army is trained. we could go on with this, but i'll just make -- it seems kind of basic, but what would be different if the drawdown would be moved up? what would change? >> what was particularly tragic about this incident is this soldier was working with u.s. special operations forces with green berets on what are called village operations, that is to ingratiate themselves with the villagers, teach them how to defend themselves, how to fend for themselves. a hearts and minds campaign, which is absolutely key to any u.s. military success there in afghanistan. but this incident has now clearly set that entire strategy on its head. >> jim, stick around if you want and jump in the conversation again. i'll take it to andrea mitchell

now and the rest of the panel, as well. i'll ask you the same question, what are the implications of moving up the drawdown? and what exactly and there are many who look at these headlines this morning think what are we still doing there? >> there's going to be political pressure from all sides, even newt gingrich we're talking about republicans as well as democrats. there are different wings as you know of the republican parties. you have john mccain and lindsey graham who are going to argue that we should not be accelerating the withdrawal. but there was a lot of pressure on the other side. you've got david cameron the british prime minister coming for crucial talks this week on iran, on afghanistan. the pace of withdrawal leading up to, of course, the nato meetings in may. all of this taking place as mik pointed out. but here we had the policy of trying to win them over and also at the same time persuade people that the taliban were a spent

force, that we could negotiate some kind of withdrawal with the talib taliban. and now the taliban will be reenergi reenergized. we're waiting with beated breat. and it's a withdrawal not on the terms we wanted. >> and afghanistan now back on the campaign trail. newt gingrich was asked in the immediate aftermath of this news story, in fact, as it was breaking what he thought now about afghanistan policy for the united states in light of the events yesterday. here's what he said. >> i don't think we have the will power or the capacity to do the things you have to do to fundamentally change the region. we need to understand that our being in the middle of countries like afghanistan is probably counterproductive. we're not prepared to be ruthless enough to force them to change. and yet we're clearly an alien presence. >> hey, mik, i ask you this question not rhetorically but sincerely because i think people watching this show, americans need to be reminded or need to

know what at least the rationale is. when you talk to people the highest reaches of the pentagon, beyond the hearts and minds, what is the justification for the united states being in afghanistan 10 1/2 years after 9/11? >> well, if you listen to senior officials and secretary of defense, leon panetta, and the white house, actually, the primary mission is to ensure that the taliban and al qaeda do not again claim territory, hold territory there in afghanistan, take over the country to provide a safe haven for terrorist attacks against the u.s. but quite frankly, you know, i am even hearing some doubts now in the mind of some senior military officials. not necessarily as to the point of the mission, but whether it can be successful. given the kind of corruption, mistrust there is there on the part of the afghanistan government in working with the

united states and in some case, mistrust in working with the afghan people. and just one quick point. you know, we heard from the top u.s. military commander there in afghanistan, general john allen who condemned the actions of this one individual soldier as appalling and promised justice. but it does raise a question here on the heels of that koran burning incident. and it's something the u.s. military calls command climate. and there are some questions being raised as to whether as the u.s. forces prepare to withdrawal, whether some forces are not perhaps paying as much attention or not as disciplined in case of the koran burning and maybe in this case, how did that soldier get off the base in the middle of the morning una unaccompanied? that's a question that has to be asked here at the pentagon and there in afghanistan as to whether the focus of those u.s.

military forces is centered on afghanistan and that war. >> and joe and i have heard republicans quietly talking about how this is just becoming more and more difficult to defend any type of prolonged presence there. mike barnicle, we'll move on to politics, but i just want to know what crossed your mind when you saw this cross the wires? >> let's try and sum this up. we've been in this country for 10 1/2 years at the cost of thousands of lives and billions of dollars. militarily, if you ask yourself can you define win or victory in afghanistan, militarily, and if you can, good luck to you. can you achieve that goal that you've set for yourself militarily? i would submit that the answers to both are no, and i would submit that during the course of a presidential campaign here in the united states, the weight of afghanistan and the weight of what happened over this past weekend in afghanistan could create an offensive motive.

and clearly a very deranged member of the united states military as mik pointed out walking one mile from a base into a town and committing murder. walking one mile in the middle of the night, a single soldier, this could be an offensive moment. >> and before we move right on to the races, steve schmitt in terms of advising candidates, i mean, this can be a game-changer if i could, when it comes to that major foreign policy event. it also can be taken advantage of by candidates and dealt with irresponsibly. fair enough? it's a little scary. >> yeah, i think you see the divide in the republican party playing out with newt gingrich's comments. george will, for example, has been there for a long time. and i think you'll see this debate now open up in a pretty profound way in the republican party. the fact of the matter is, the mission is not clear there. the goals are not clear, the

karzai government is a corrupt government, and the reality is when you talk to people who have served there, they don't understand what the mission is, what the focus is, and when we leave afghanistan, which we will eventually leave, it will be as if we have never been there. and we will learn the lessons that the russians have learned, that the british have learned, it is not for nothing that afghanistan has been called the graveyard of empires. >> well, and the mission is not clear there, many people say that. the mission is not complete, many people will say that, but the question is, will it ever be? no. and at some point, when do you just say we're never going to complete it, we must now leave? what good can come from staying there longer? >> i think we are in afghanistan because we were attacked on september 11th. al qaeda in afghanistan has been decapitated. we will not be successful trying to impose a western secular

democracy on afghanistan, not this year, not in 100 years. and i think that our adventure there is in its waning days as we look at this terrible tragedy that has taken place. but the lack of a goal and the lack of an ability to articulate what defines success means that i think you're going to see a pretty sharp debate break open. >> i hope we get an honest one. >> the president faces pressure because this same debate has been occurring in the democratic caucus in the house and senate now for years. as the campaign unfolds. the same questions that are raised by steven. and i would argue some of the questions raised by republican candidates. democratic senate candidates across the country, those challenging and up for reelection. it'll be interesting to see how the president and his defense team is able to justify, continually justify a large presence. >> before we move on to the primaries we're covering.

jim, final thoughts on this topic? >> i wanted to follow up on what mike barnicle had to say. and comparing this to vietnam, you know, president obama has made it clear he doesn't want afghanistan to be his vietnam. back during vietnam, lyndon johnson turned to his aides once and said if we've lost walter cronkite, we've lost the world. i think the military lost a lot of americans this weekend. >> at one point i thought you were comparing walter cronkite to mike barnicle. >> close. >> mik, thank you very much. let's make the turn to politics. rick santorum, coming off a good weekend in kansas. as the romney campaign is claiming momentum. santorum won by 30 points, 30 points ahead of romney. romney swept the contests in guam, the u.s. virgin islands, and the northern mariana islands. also at wyoming's county conventions on saturday.

romney added 39 delegates to his total this weekend, santorum got 36, romney leads santorum by more than 200 delegates. rick santorum, though, is rejecting the argument that his rival's edge in delegates makes him inevitable. >> romney needs about 50% to be -- on the current track we're on right now, the fact is, that governor romney doesn't get to that number. the idea you just make projections, this isn't a mathematical formula. someone who has spent 10 to 1 all the establishment behind, you know, all this "wind at his back" yet he can't close the deal. governor romney's had about three of his home states already. so it's important for us to look to the future and see the opportunities we have. that's how we get back in this race. and if we can get a one-on-one, in the states we've had one-on-ones, we've done very well. >> tomorrow we get alabama and mississippi, the polls there show it very tight. when you look at the numbers there as you have in previous

campaigns, do gingrich and santorum split the conservative vote and make a pathway for romney there? >> well, i think if you look at the polls right now and you look at how romney's performed in the other southern states, it's tough to see how he comes out on top in these southern states. i think even with the divided conservative vote, you're going to see either santorum or gingrich win in the states. i think it's important for newt gingrich to be able to rack up some victories if he's going to keep going in the process. >> all right, speaking of newt gingrich, he's predicting he's going to win both of tomorrow's primaries banking on the southern region to bank his next comeback. the former house speaker is vowing to fight on suggesting the field's front-runner is not up to the task. >> the romney camp has been trying to sell since last june that i should get out of the race and romney's inevitable. but the fact is, romney's probably the weakest republican front-runner since leonard wood in 1920. yes, he's the front-runner, not

a strong front-runner. almost all conservatives are opposed to him, which is the base of the party. and i think we are as likely to see after the last primary in june, we're as likely to see a 60-day conversation about what's going to happen as we are to see romney dominating. >> they're going to continue to tear him down, andrea mitchell. and the question is, does tearing him down leading up to the nomination build him up or leave him weakened? >> i think it leaves him weakened. i think that the likelihood, and steve would hear me out on this, likely he is going to be the nominee. he's got a tough tuesday tomorrow to face with alabama and mississippi and the cheesy grits comment didn't help. you saw the way robert gibbs put him down by suggesting that he should at least learn that the s.e.c. does not refer to the securities and exchange commission when he's down south if he's going to try to talk southern. he's got a way to go.

maybe he can, i don't know, i guess it's too late in tennessee to start rooting for vanderbilt, but he's got to do something to show he's got some way of dealing with people that seems a lot more authentic. and i don't know, i'm just catching up overnight to all this talk about newt gingrich flirting with rick perry and vice versa, talking about a ticket already. that seems a lot premature. but i guess they're trying to do -- you've been seeing e-mails floating back and forth on the perry people praising gingrich. >> rick perry? >> yeah, this was a late night, overnight development. willie, bear me out. >> the gingrich campaign denies it, but there were talks they were creating what they call a super ticket with newt gingrich at the top and rick perry as the vice president. >> what country? >> the campaign -- >> seriously. >> yes. yes. >> steve schmitt, what's it like watching this? >> it's nice to watch it on this side of the table. >> i bet.

you had -- the connect ability thing keeps coming back. there's actually a great must-read. but does it matter ultimately in the times? >> i can't believe gingrich played the leonard wood card. >> i know. >> look, i think the problem that mitt romney has in this is that the southern states or the base of the republican party. they're the cultural heart of the party. the thing that makes it difficult for him. but gingrich's problem, and he talks about romney's weakness, but he keeps losing to romney. so i think if you're a guy who is attacking someone's weakness that keeps beating you, i think that argument begins to fall away. >> is there anything he can do to be mitt romney less detached in those areas? >> i think a lot of this stuff is not sensical. he's got a record of achieving,

succeeding, fixing broken institutions. he's going to need to tell that to the public through his prism, not through theirs. >> we're going to talk to tina brown, also meredith vieira will be here to talk about her new movie project. and joining us in the studio, we have sherrod brown. up next, the politico playbook. beautiful weekend for most of us we just got done with. the exception was in the midwest. and you have great weather heading your way. so there's really not many complaints out there today. this is how the week shapes up. everywhere in the yellow, you should see above average temperatures. going to feel like late april, early may, the exception, northwest. a huge storm system with strong winds coming onshore there in oregon. here's the rain this morning. areas in green is the rain and it's heading north to minneapolis now. kind of a windy, rainy day there around green bay, detroit, chicago. later today, some of these strong thunderstorms that are

now down around the new orleans and slidell and biloxi area will be sliding down through the gulf. we'll continue to watch those for you in mobile and pensacola. we shouldn't have temperatures like this yet. 70s today as far north as connecticut. we'll have a light chance of rain around d.c. but your morning and afternoon will be dry. and watch out in chicago, you could see strong thunderstorms late today, maybe even an isolated tornado. that's how warm and unusual it is. we have a chance of isolated tornadoes in the middle of march. usually about a 1/2 foot of snow on the ground, not this year, folks. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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♪ 25 past the hour. time to look at the morning papers. the "miami herald," the florida charters school lobby fell short of its legislative goals for the year including securing district money for construction creating a separate sports league and giving parents more power within the school. in previous years, the lobby enjoyed a string of victories. but this year, legislators say they overreached. for years, parents and coaches of young pitchers said don't throw curve balls. but now contradicting the belief that contorting an elbow puts added stress on the joint. throwing too many of the same kind of any pitch is what puts young players at the greatest risk. yes, we read the "new york times" and that's the story -- >> we also read this article. larry king is returning to the interviewer's chair. the 78-year-old will broadcast on the new online only network

funded by carlos slim. no date is set yet for king's weekday approach. >> i wish he would hire me. he writes a nice paycheck. >> you don't have to worry about the check cashing. >> not with carlos. let's go to politico, mike allen has that look at the playbook. good morning. >> hey, good morning guys. >> let's talk math, shall we? the romney campaign making the argument that the delegates are on their side. therest no argument for newt gingrich and rick santorum to stay in the race at this point. they just can't get enough delegates. the santorum camp is turning that argument on its head. >> today's mitt romney's birthday, he's 65 today. and as a present, rick santorum's launching that new argument that, yes, the delegate math may be on his side today, but rick santorum will argue the time is on his side. and he's saying that he's going

to stick with this going into late may even early june when he claims his momentum will come. so he says if he has a math problem, mitt romney does too. the romney campaign figures that to get the nomination, romney will have to get half the delegates that are left. newt gingrich would have to get 70% of the delegates that were left, rick santorum would have to get 65% of the delegates left. and almost insurmountable hurdle, but rick santorum says he's going to give it a shot. >> steve schmidt, let me ask you about the messaging from the romney campaign. what does that sound like to voters when they hear the front runner telling other candidates to get out of the race this nomination is owed to me in some way? >> well, i think the argument he's making is an accurate and truthful argument. mitt romney is highly likely to be the republican nominee. but his position is not strong enough yet for there to be a clear case for these other candidates to get out of the race. if gingrich loses the southern

states, i think his rationale for continuing forward continues to slip away. but santorum is just strong enough to be able to make an argument that he has the ability to go forward and the reality is that presidential campaigns end when they run out of money. and rick santorum doesn't seem to be in danger of running out of money very soon. so i think this is going to go on for a while. >> that's the truth, right? he can go as long as foster friess and others fund his campaign. >> and the republican party is different than the democratic party in this. there's a real benefit to being the second-place person in a republican primary. because that second-place person past is prologue usually goes up on to the be the nominee of the party in a future election cycle. so i think rick santorum started out as an asterisk in this. he's looking at this even in defeat he becomes a hugely important voice in the republican process and the republican party going forward.

and i don't think he's getting out any time soon. >> mike allen, looking ahead to tomorrow, alabama and mississippi, the polls have it tight. what are your numbers showing you? >> yeah, no, this is incredible. ties in mississippi. it has gingrich and romney tied at the top. and then into alabama, it has a three-way, romney, santorum, gingrich tied. so should be an exciting night. >> that'll be interesting. >> interesting night. mike allen, thanks so much. >> have a great week. coming up, we'll call it a quiz bowl in sneakers. when the commodores play harvard for the first time since 1946. that game happens on thursday. this is delicious okay... is this where we're at now?

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welcome back to "morning joe." time for some sports. and we're starting with vanderbilt. that's the way it's going to be this week. the commodores playing yesterday for their first sec title since 1951. the commodores, though, would have to get through number one kentucky, a team perhaps nba

paid players. new orleans, was the site of the game. vandy takes it, john jenkins, alley-oop there, commodores up one, kentucky retook the lead. look at this move here by terrence jones. pump fake, goes left, come back, throw it down with the right hand. kentucky up five points, danger time for vanderbilt, we started to get a little worried, would talent take over? johnson with the and one gives vanderbilt a three-point lead, he hit the free throw there. they hold on to win 71-64. vanderbilt coach kevin overcome by emotions after the game. dare i say speaking for vanderbilt fans everywhere. florida state looking to continue its role as spoiler. they beat duke in the semifinals playing carolina. second half, five minutes left, michael snare goes to the rack, floater falls a little bit

short, bernard james, though, put it in, seminoles up six at that point, tarheels come back. long jumper from beyond the arc, carolina pulls to within one. florida state scores on the next possession, so carolina gets one chance, down three, three seconds left, p.j. harriston tries to tie it from deep, little too deep, can't get it to go. florida state holds on to win the first acc championship 85-82, the final, beats duke in the semis. losses by kentucky and carolina didn't change their number one seeds. syracuse, number one in the east, michigan state number one in the west. you can check out the full brackets at madness.nbcsports.com. some other teams to be watching thursday and friday this week. fifth seed vanderbilt. this is a great game, harvard, harold, you like this game. >> a great game. >> who's going to win? >> vandy will win, but princeton

took kentucky down to the wire and made a one-point game, harvard's going to play tough. >> in the tournament for the first time since 1946. south dakota state, the jack rabbits in the tournament for the first time -- >> going to be an upset. >> really? baylor? >> the game's on the west coast, going to be interesting. >> south dakota state became a division one program four years ago and harold likes them to beat baylor. georgetown for our d.c. audience, they're not going to have an easy game. belmont lost to duke by one point. belmont out of nashville. that's a good team. and last year's cinderella story, vcu, they're a 12 seed and play five seed wichita state. >> vanderbilt -- >> memphis is going to surprise people in this tournament. >> sneaky good this year. >> you should apologize for your snide attack on my friend coach cal. >> he's a good man. >> he's the man. >> he would never do anything to

bring a young student athlete to his university ever. >> he has never -- to be clear. >> never, despite the whispers. >> i'm hearing sarcasm in willie's voice. >> let's go to football. bad news if you like tim tebow and you're a broncos fan. peyton manning has narrowed his list to the broncos and the arizona cardinals. on friday, manning met with broncos' head coach john fox and john elway who is the executive vice president of football there. elway and fox have previous relationship with manning and voiced a bit of skepticism about tebow's long-term prospects. no comparison, of course, statistically between healthy manning and tebow. you see the numbers there. if you get peyton manning and he's at all healthy, you take him. andrea mitchell, looks like your redskins probably not going to get peyton manning i'm sorry to report. >> looks like we may get -- >> wow. >> this is a big deal.

>> yes rg3. >> he describes himself as a military kid, both parents in the military. this is a disciplined young man. not just a razzle-dazzle star. and rebuilding the franchise. but they're playing a heavy price. >> three first-round draft choices. >> next three years. >> that tells you what the red skins think about that. he's obviously won the heisman trophy supposed to be a great kid too. rg3's going to be in d.c. in denver, the debate about whether tebow should stay or go, this is a billboard soliciting broncos fans to cast your ballot here for manning or tebow. that's the same billboard in october that said john fox, put tebow in the game. coming up, sherrod brown of ohio joins us onset. also the must-read opinion pages and steve schmidt's take on woody harrelson as steve schmidt.

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same great protection. depend®. good morning. great day. well, howdy there, seth, good to be back here on snl. >> where's tina? >> it's okay. i've got this. oh, yeah, don't ya know. you're darn -- >> tina got sick, but don't worry, i'm filling in and i'm killing it. >> you're not killing it. >> yes, i am. just watch this one. oh, yeah. people keep asking me, what does sarah palin think of this new game change movie? and i say, i don't know, i'll ask a. >> you've got to stop doing this. >> you're going to make me do my famous catch phrase. okay, i did not have sexual relations with that woman.

>> that's bill clinton. >> de bears. >> andy. >> welcome back to "morning joe," 42 past the hour, beautiful shot as the sun comes up. days are getting a little longer now or it's lighter later, at least. steve schmitt still with us at the table. game change premiered on saturday. we saw it last week. so the question for you is, a, what did you think of it? and b, was it accurate? >> i think it was very accurate. for all of us in the campaign, it rang true. gave you a little bit of ptsd at times. it did for me. but, look, i think it's a story of when cynicism and idealism collide. when you have to do things necessary to win, to try to get in office to do the great things you want to do for the country. and i think it showed a process of vetting that was debilitated by secrecy, compartmentalized, that failed that led to a result

that was reckless. for the country. and i think when you look back at that race, you see this person who is just so phenomenally talented at so many levels, an ability to connect but also someone who had a lot of flaws as someone running, you know, to be in the national command authority who clearly wasn't prepared. >> you see in the movie the circumstances under which you decided to do it and why you did it. you said we're dead unless we do something bold. you pick sarah palin, get a bounce coming out of the convention. at the end of the day given what you know now, sarah palin a net positive or net negative for that campaign? >> politically, she was a net positive to the campaign. john mccain lost that race because the global economy imploded in the middle of september, and we were outspent by $250 million. i think a net negative in the sense that someone was nominated

to the vice presidency who was manifestly unprepared to take the oath of office should it become necessary. and as it has become necessary many times. >> this will sound strange to many people watching because you're the guy who picked her to say she was unprepared. do you think it was reckless? >> well, i was part of a team that settled on the result, you know. i didn't wake up one day and say let's pick her. but there's a scene in the movie where i'm saying to senator mccain, it's almost verbatim the conversation that happened. saying i would rather lose by ten points than lose by one point saying did we do everything we can to win? and for me, the experience on this campaign is that there are worse things than losing. >> so the movie, i think, many agree showed a sympathetic side to her. >> sure. >> and you can see that? during the process? >> when i watch the movie, and i

had a very difficult relationship with her during the campaign, but i remember watching that movie why i liked her so much, particularly in the beginning. >> so looking back at her, can you see how in some ways it was an unfair experience for her? as well? >> i think it was a very difficult experience for her. i look at the movie, i look at myself in the mirror. you look at these people when they're running for president and vice president not the way you look at people that you encounter every day in your life. we wanted her to perform, we wanted her to go out there and to do this. and this was a person who was in distress at some points during this campaign. and i look at did i do as a person -- did i interact with a person who was in distress the way you would want to interact with a person in distress? and i don't always think that i did a great job on that. >> wow. >> so steve, right now, obviously santorum and romney and gingrich are all thinking about whom their running mates

would be. what advice would you -- what's the most important advice or take away lesson you have from the decision-making process? >> even when i'm on television, harold, and we talk about this. we get asked the question all the time. the conversation is never about is this person prepared to be president? is does this person help latinos in this swing state? what political problem does it solve? and i think the lesson of all of this is the rigger that a campaign should put this through. it should be staffed like a presidential decision, not like a campaign decision. we made a campaign decision not a presidential decision. >> you know, you were saying a couple of minutes ago that what the campaign among the many things the campaign taught you that you learned from the campaign was that there were worse things than losing. spell that out. what's worse in that context? >> what's worse in that context to me is with regard to the country that i love, that i have family members and the uniform

services in the country in the armed services. we have 100,000 people in afghanistan. when a result happens that puts someone who is not prepared to be president on the ticket, that's a bad result. i think the notion of sarah palin being president of the united states is something that frightens me, frankly. and i played a part in that. and played a part in that because we were fueled by ambition to win. and i think that ambition to win, to victory is what drives people in politics. it is a chess match in a lot of ways. but that result in how we got there is something that troubles me a lot. >> wow. >> and doesn't stand the test of time in my view. >> huh. >> and i think there are important lessons to learn. the reality is that both parties have nominated people in the last decade who were not

prepared to be anywhere near the oval office. john edwards in the democratic party, sarah palin in the republican party. we ought to take a pause and understand how that happened, why it happened, and hopefully it'll never happen again in our lifetimes. >> wow. being honest. andrea mitchell, we saw you at the premiere. very glamorous premiere. what did you think of the movie? and what went through your mind? >> yeah, i thought it was extraordinary, the performances, the characterizations. and i was deeply troubled as steve is just explaining by the way we choose our running mates. not only, of course, the way we choose our candidates. and the fact that palin and as you correctly point out john edwards were so unqualified at that moment in time to be anywhere near a campaign and anywhere near the oval office. i'm wondering, steve, whether you think palin is now a different person and whether she has the qualifications because

we've heard rumors. whether you think she has a future in the republican party? >> i hope not. and the reason i say that is because if you look at over the last four years, all of the deficiencies in knowledge, all the deficiencies in preparedness. she's done not one thing to rectify them, to correct them. she's become a person who i think is filled with grievance, filled with anger, who has a divisive message, when we need leaders to have a unifying message. there's this great scene in the great biography finished about general petraeus who is talking to one of his proteges and says to them, what's the definition of needless slaughter? and the young soldier has no idea and petraeus responds, it's the battle of the psalm where 65,000 british soldiers were

killed on the first day of battle. and the army's leaders are prepared to avoid the mistakes of yesterday tomorrow. and i think that's important. and i think the lack of preparedness was a bad thing. and the total disinterest in being more prepared in rectifying that is something that i think disqualifies. >> yeah. >> well said. >> incredibly said. such a brutal process and perhaps she's still taking it personally which is not necessarily good offer as a candidate. coming up, mitt romney told a crowd in mississippi last week that he's begun to say y'all. and eat grits. newt gingrich spent the weekend proving to the south he likes grits more. okay, we'll have that back and forth next on "morning joe." ttd#: 1-800-345-2550

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wow, is it time, willie? y'all ought to listen. >> talking about grits. you're worse than mitt romney. presidential campaign heads south. the candidates taking up a brand new issue. grits. mitt romney fired the first shot declaring on thursday he started to y'all eat grits and commit other acts of utter pandering. newt gingrich is from georgia and he takes great offense. here are two guys who say they want to be president.

>> i'm learning to say y'all and i like grits and the things are strange things happening to me. morning, y'all. good to be with you. i got to start it right this morning with a biscuit and cheesy grits. >> governor romney indicated yesterday morning was the first time he'd ever tasted grits. i just wanted to reassure all of you that i have had some acquaintance in a variety of forms, whether it's with shrimp, with cheese, with gravy, i get it. >> i like grits, i like cheese grits, i like grits with gravy. there are a number of ways you can have grits. >> i even understand cheese grits. i even understand shrimp and grits, how's that? if you don't understand grits, there's a likelihood you don't understand the rest of the south either. >> harold ford, you're a son of

the south, how do you take your grits? >> butter with pepper on it. i cheat every once in a while. my wife makes it and i put butter on there. i don't get how you can be president if you don't understand grits. but mitt romney looked horrible saying y'all. >> he was connecting. >> with who? >> he needs to stop, steve. >> that's mean. >> andrea, how about you? grits? >> no grits. >> really? all right. you can't run in the south. >> calories, baby. >> andrea, who do you have on at 1:00 tom? >> well, we've been talking about afghanistan. we've been talking with atia abawi. >> 1:00 on msnbc, andrea. coming up next, tina brown joins us in the studio. "morning joe" back in a moment. abigail higgins had...

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it pays to discover. ♪ why extremists always focus on women remains a mystery to me. but they all seem to. it doesn't matter what country they're in or what religion they claim, they all want to control women. they want to control how we dress, they want to control how we act, they even want to control the decisions we make about our own health and our own bodies.

yes, it is hard to believe, but even here at home we have to stand up for women's rights and reject efforts to marginalize every one of us because america needs to set an example for the entire world. >> that must have been an amazing event. and we're going to talk about that with tina brown straight ahead. welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour, mike barnicle and howard ford jr. are with us and tina brown. and in washington, intelligence writer for the "associated press" kimberly doger. we'll get to you in a moment with the headlines in afghanistan which are simply horrific this morning. tina, hillary clinton was just one of many incredible guests that you had at the women in the world summit at the lincoln center over the weekend. >> yes. >> i can't stop hearing about it. >> it was amazingly good.

in terms of its content, it was just incredible. meryl streep introduced hillary with wonderful words about what she's done for women over the world. it's like the secret life of hillary the way she has worked with women ever since she was in arkansas right the way through now to secretary of state where she's made a key plank in her strategy. what hillary was saying was she was saying how women in the world now look -- they look to america -- they look to us for the inspiration of how women can be empowered. and yet we are in a situation right now where our rights are being kind of rolled back. it was a very, very powerful moment. because actually at the summit, the women in the audience were getting encouragement and inspiration from the women in places like west africa and afghanistan. because those women are fighting so hard for their rights. and it was like a call to arm in the sense for the american women in the audience to say we have to defend our rights too. it was an extraordinary sort of transference between the women who had come from overseas to the women in the audience. >> and before we pivot to

afghanistan, there is discussion always if we pull back in afghanistan, it would be such a setback, especially for women there. in this event, you had christine legarde. was there a prevailing message from the summit? >> the prevailing message was how you can never -- you have to be constantly vigilant about allowing women to, you know, to be lifted up, constantly vigilant. it was a wonderful woman from egypt who was one of the bloggers and she was in the square. and then after the revolution a year ago she then ran for parliament and lost. she said the rights of the women are being rolled back constantly now in egypt. and she said there's no spring without flowers and there is no arab spring without women, which i thought was an incredibly resonant thing to say. >> congratulations on that once again, tina. let's get to the headlines now. the united states army sergeant is being detained today by fellow troops in afghanistan after american officials say he

went on a nighttime massacre over the weekend killing at least 16 afghan civilians as they slept in their homes. a coalition spokesman said the rogue shooter abandoned his post at a military base and walked to a nearby village and opened fire in three separate homes killing as many as nine children. five other civilians reportedly injured. president obama who was attending his daughter's basketball game in maryland personally called hamid karzai. and he said the incident does not represent the u.s. military. but karzai is demanding answers saying, "this is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven." kimberly, what are your concerns as we move forward? we've been following for weeks now the aftermath and the

reaction to the koran burnings. this is not going to go over well at all as we deal with our mission there and talk about ultimately what the end game is. >> right now americans i've spoken to in kabul are bracing for blowback. they're looking ahead to friday prayers to see how the afghan people are going to react to this. it's one blow after the next after the next in terms of the relationship. the u.s. military had only just sent its advisers back into a lot of afghan government ministries after two u.s. officers were killed by an afghan who was angry over the desecration of afghan bodies by u.s. marines. you remember that incident in january when those photographs got released. so now they've got a situation where, yes, they've got this american staff sergeant in custody, but afghan elders are raising the specter of, oh, it couldn't have been just been one shooter even though the pentagon is saying no way, it was one guy. he was assigned to a special

operations base that is really one of the leading plights of nato. these special operators work with village elders and train the villagers to become their own neighborhood watch. what this soldier was doing was helping provide security and logistical support for the special operations forces doing this job. now the americans are going to have to explain to the afghans really you can trust us. we are going to look after our own and make sure this doesn't happen again. >> hey, kimberly, good morning, this is will ie geist. i'm interested to hear your take on this as someone who has covered these dangerous war zones about the question of hearts and minds. from where a lot of people are sitting, it looks to be a futile operation to win the hearts and minds. are in your experience the hearts and minds of people, tribal people in afghanistan

winnable by the american military? >> well, the thing is, it really does depend on which district and outreach has been done there. one of the sad things is where this happened was one of the success stories. it had a lower rate of violence, it had pretty successful programs of americans working with afghans. now this one incident can throw all of that into disarray. what the taliban is going to try to do is pick up on a lot of those photographs that have come out of, you know, children shot in the head. and send that across the country. they've got a great pr system for something like this to try to foment unrest. really what americans are watching for is what is the afghan president's reaction going to be after president obama has called him? this week, what is he going to tell his people? this is his part of afghanistan where the shooting happened. is he going to do something to calm things down? without that, the american operation really is in jeopardy. >> the latest washington post

abc news poll shows 60% of americans no longer support the war in afghanistan. nearly doubling the 35% who say the war has been worth the costs. asked whether u.s. forces should stay until the afghan army is trained or withdraw now, 54% say withdraw now. 43% say keep forces there until the afghan army is trained. kimberly, the impact on the troops who are there, as well, as this conversation persists as events like this unfold. >> well, a lot of the troops that you speak to are ambivalent about the mission, but when you speak to the commanders, they say we've got to find a way to step down our involvement there and hand over or, you know, all the investment we've made over the past several years could be for not and al qaeda could just come back. so what they're trying to do right now is look again at who they're assigning to some of these remote outposts that will really be the face of the

american interaction with afghans to come. and ask themselves and prove to the afghan people in some manner, shape, or form, really we're going to make sure that people who are up to the job are out there dealing with you face-to-face. >> kimberly, harold ford, good morning. you made the point that the american commanders and leaders are wondering what karzai's response will be after the conversation with president obama. his comments at first were pretty harsh that we cannot be forgiven. put aside, we all recognize how heinous and terrible this act was. but if he does not back his comments down, how do you continue forward with that relationship intact? >> well, those initial comments that initial burst of anger was seen by a lot of american officials as a necessary relief valve. they expected that from him. and in a sense, if he says that, maybe it might diffuse some of the tensions on the streets. what does he say going forward when the american commanders reach out to him and say we've

taken these measures, we have investigated the man responsible. here's what we think happened and it won't happen again. what does he say after he hears all of the background? before the friday prayers. >> tina brown? >> what are you going to do, do you think, to the ngos who are already there. they were already under tremendous danger after the koran burning and you've got the school for girls being closed down with budget cuts and so on. what will be left for ngos to be able to do in this new climate? >> you're right, tina. ngos, all the organizations that rely on trust and try to use a minimum amount of personal security and arms security, they're really going to have to pause, think about their personal security, and think about how much they can accomplish. a lot of these organizations had already started working through

afghans, especially outside of urban areas like kabul so as not to endanger the people who were working with them. but, you know, this is one of those moments where you've got to take a deep breath, watch what the reaction is going to be and hold your patrols, hold your missions, and see what the afghans are going to do. >> okay. so if, kimberly, we'll pivot to politics in just a moment. but if we see the mission as a way of helping afghanistan evolve into a safer place, a better place, if that's the mission, aren't these two latest events a sign that that can't be done? i hate to say that after ten years, but i know there's a lot of people who have put their lives on the line for this mission and there's an incredible amount of respect we need to have for our troops, but isn't there a reality being played out here, as well? >> well, what you hear u.s. commanders talk about is let's find a way to shrink our

footprint to the point where we can still go after insurgents, go after al qaeda, keep the training camps from coming back, and to do that, they've got to keep their relationship open with the afghan government and security forces. they're looking at this plan to shrink down the special operations forces with just u.s. conventional soldiers in support. we're talking fewer than 30,000, maybe fewer than 20,000 people. as early as 2014. that is something that they're all grappling with. how do we keep providing help and keep americans safe from possible attacks without being right in the afghans' face. we'll be following this story throughout the morning. rick santorum is coming off a big weekend win in the kansas caucuses even as the romney campaign claims new momentum, as well, in the race for delegates. on saturday, santorum won the kans caucuses with 51%

support, 30 points ahead of romney. but the former massachusetts governor swept the contests in the u.s. territories of guam, virgin islands. he also won the delegate vote at wyoming's county conventions on saturday. combined, romney added 39 delegates while rick santorum got 36. in all, romney now leads santorum by over 200 delegates. rick santorum is rejecting arguments that his rival's edge in the delegates makes him the inevitable nominee. >> romney needs about 50% of the delegates. and on the current track we're on right now, the fact is that governor romney doesn't get to that number. so the idea you just make projections, this isn't a math call formula. someone outspent ten to one who has all of the establishment behind him all of this "wind at his back," yet he can't close the deal. i've got my home state to go, governor romney had about three of his home states already. and it's important for us to look to the future and see the

opportunities we have. that's how we get back in this race. and if we can get a one-on-one. we've done very well. >> all right. let's look to the near future then. and tomorrow's all-important primaries in alabama and mississippi over 100 delegates are at stake. and the latest polls show the upcoming states are anyone's game. according to an alabama state university poll, the top three candidates are all in a statistical tie in the state. the latest polls in mississippi also show a close three-man race. newt gingrich is predicting he will win both of tomorrow's primaries. banking on the southern region to mount his next comeback. but even if he comes up short, the former house speaker is also vowing to fight on, suggesting the field's front runner is not up to the task. >> the romney camp has been trying to sell since last june that i should get out of the race and that romney's inevitable. but romney's probably the weakest republican front-runner since leonard wood in 1920, and

he won on the ballot. yes, he's a front-runner, he's not a strong front-runner. almost all of the republicans are opposed to him. and i think we are likely to see after the last primary in june, we're as likely to see a 60-day conversation about what's going to happen as we are to see romney dominating. >> wow. as the president's reelection team is gearing up for november, the new abc news/"washington post" poll shows a tight race in head-to-head match-ups. president obama is in a statistical tie with mitt romney and rick santorum. this is that four-point jump for romney in the past month and a five-point jump for rick santorum. >> something to watch in two weeks as we all know the arguments before the supreme court begin around the president's health care plan. >> right. >> romney could find himself at a greater disadvantage for his association with that plan and will probably provide even more aid to santorum, arguably

gingrich, but particularly santorum. and those numbers there show, i think the impact this long primary has had. it's actually made santorum, i think, who is a flawed candidate in so many areas, particularly his position on women's rights and others' rights. but it's benefitted him -- >> and that argument about women's rights. >> how are they going to win women back? ultimately obama is murdering republicans right now. he's rolling out this huge offensive to get women in america -- >> i don't disagree with that. but if that polling is to be believed, you have to believe it when it begins -- for him to be within three points of the president and all of this data continues to manifest itself, to borrow willie's word from earlier, it is curious to me and i think it suggests that this longer primary is helping more and more voters see santorum as a viable candidate. as frightening as it may be to some. >> the health care issue could be the one weak spot for the

president in the overall big picture debate. mitt romney has his problems with that, and rick santorum in this whole birth control issue, it's actually turned around. and it's playing against the republicans. because they've somehow dived into this nose first. >> they have stumbled into this hornets nest. they've gotten into this mix where they're offending republican women. >> republican women. >> i hear you. i don't disagree with you. but how do you explain those numbers? i think it suggests that the economy remains the most dominant issue on people's minds and the president will have to continue to make this case about how damaging from supreme court appointments to health care to women's rights, the damage that santorum would cause. but look, he's gained five points at the height of this ugly, ugh through ly debate of right. >> it is about the lack of appeal of mitt romney. santorum says outrageous things,

but he is kind of a visceral guy that people can relate to as a human. >> i would agree. >> and the problem with mitt is people just can't. and the more he gets out there trying to talk about grits. >> the president's going to -- there's going to be clearly the economy is going to be the big issue. and some of the polls show the president has work to do on that. but mike barnicle, as we are seeing in the headlines this morning, every front page of every newspaper, this gruesome, horrific story out of afghanistan, things could change as they did last time around. we could have foreign policy and national security defining our way forward. >> well, hopefully after a commitment of 10 1/2 years, thousands of lives, billions of dollars, afghanistan will be discussed in the context of a political campaign. and hopefully the candidates and the people employed by the candidates will address the question that i'm sure they're addressing and have been addressing in the pentagon. and kimberly alluded to. can you define what success means for us in afghanistan? >> right.

>> and the success in afghanistan is it dependent on the military? is it military success? and if you can't answer those questions successfully in a country where the median age is about 18 years ago where they don't want us to begin with. and if you can't say the snapshot you take of afghanistan today will be measurably changed five years from now by our presence, then let's go home. >> we've been there ten years, but the answers to the questions are already there. >> how relevant too is the fact this crazy soldier had been three terms in iraq, one term in afghanistan, i mean, the military are so exhausted and distracted by this horrendous, constant tours of duty that clearly you're going to see more crazy outbursts of this kind. >> will not end will. tina brown, stay with us. coming up, meredith vieira weighs in on the challenges facing women warriors once they're back home from the battlefield. and up next sherrod brown joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe"

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♪ 24 past the hour. a live look at the white house as the sun is up in washington. tina brown is still with us, harold ford jr. is still with us. and joining us now democratic senator from ohio, senator sherrod brown at the table this morning. >> good to be back. >> good to have you in studio. >> thank you. >> we've got some jobs numbers over the past few days. and let's look ahead as many would argue the economy should be the central message of the campaigns. we're not hearing that all the time from the republican candidates running. but how is it looking in terms of the president's stance moving forward? >> well, clearly this isn't enough. but it's people in ohio clearly see that it's progress. >> adding 200,000 jobs last month. >> and we had 12 years in a row of declining manufacturing jobs in this country. and 14 of the last 15 months something like that, we've seen now manufacturing job increases, in part because of the auto

rescue and what's followed after that. and ohioans and i think people nationally understand that's progress. i think the payroll tax helps, i think this transportation bill we have to pass, which we're doing bipartisanly in the senate, not so clear what's happening in the house is directly translates into jobs today and building foundation for jobs in the future. those are the kinds of things congress needs to focus on. >> speaking about jobs, and you're up for reelection. there seems to be in the country, mild resentment, seething resentment toward public pension plans, the amount they cost and everything like that. but there also seems to be a concerted effort to destroy unions in this country. talk about the union movement as it exists today and where it's going. >> well, we've seen in my state is a very good example because last year governor kasich -- in the 2010 elections it was all about jobs.

and that's why -- huge numbers of people suffering. so the legislature instead of focusing on jobs went after collective bargaining rights and voter rights and women's rights, and i think that's sort of blowing up in their face. and last year in ohio, as you know, mike, we had collective bargaining repeal legislation on the ballot. the voters overwhelmingly said, no, don't take collective bargaining rights away from public employees. and it wasn't just union members, public and private, it was people of faith, all kinds of people stood up and said we know that taking away collective bargaining rights from anybody begins to unravel the middle class. and we know in this country that the middle class -- growing the middle class is the key to job creation and opportunities and keeping our kids in the state to give them the opportunities to work where they -- near where they grew up.

and i think that's all part of it. and i think more and more people understand that a vibrant trade union movement, giving people the option to join a union if they want and level the playing field means a more prosperous middle class. >> you talk about helping the middle class. there's so many different factors that play into the problems plaguing the middle class. the housing market, gas prices, there's a "washington post" poll out, looking at numbers, 26% approval rating on the president handling of gas prices. can congress do anything? can the president do anything in that realm? >> yeah, there are limited things we can do. but absolutely, a new study said 56 cents a gallon, 56 cents on every gallon of gas is speculation on wall street and among -- >> 56 cents. >> 56 cents on every -- for every gallon. and you know, you can see when energy production is generally up and as it is, when we're weaning ourselves off foreign

oil is starting to happen. there's rigs and oil fields and demand is pretty much constant because of conservation efforts and better mileage for cars, prices go up. it's almost like this, i think, mika, every time there's a pipeline of fire at a refinery, a pipeline outage or any kind of turmoil in the middle east, it's always used to jack up oil prices every single time at the gas pump. and i think you're seeing that again. it's always more than that, but speculation is clearly a role in this and i asked the attorney general at a hearing last week, you've got to step up your task force and he has in his office and the justice department to use dodd/frank, the language wrote into dodd/frank to go after these speculators. >> around gas prices, the speculation, is there anything you think congress will do either on that front? or will there be other things you guys do? and two, the president's offered this corporate tax rate cut as an idea and put some other things on the table. what's the likelihood of a

broader tax bill being completed between now and election time? particularly in light of the specter of the bush tax cuts expiring? >> i think that keeps us focused on this. what happens with all of those taxes at the end -- at the beginning of next year, i don't think it's real great as you would guess. a real chance of tax reform. there's some real jobs things we can do. my legislation, the largest jobs -- i think the largest jobs bill to pass the senate was our china currency bill last year passed bipartisanly more than 60 votes. it will level the playing field with china. it can create a lot of -- up to 2 million jobs mostly industrial manufacturing jobs and put us on that level playing field with china. and in terms of, you know, congress actually getting other things done, it's not so clear. but in terms of gas prices, it's not really what congress needs to do, it's the administration with the justice department, with the community trading commission going after the

speculators. we build a ban, if you will, into the dodd/frank bill to give guidelines to the commodity futures trading commission to go after speculators and directing them to do that if they see it. and i think they will. >> senator, stay with us. it's good to see you. you're going to like our next story. we have the rust belt renaissance. our next guest says the real mavericks fixing the economy are in our own backyard. we'll introduce that guest to you straight ahead on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] lately, there's been a seismic shift

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it's halftime in america too. people are out of work and they're hurting. and they're all wondering what they're going to do to make a comeback. and we're all scared because this isn't a game. the people of detroit know a little something about this. they almost lost everything. how do we win? detroit's showing us it can be done. and what's true about them is true about all of us. this country can't be knocked out in one punch. we get right back up again and when we do, the world's going to

hear the roar of our engines. yeah. it's halftime, america. and our second half's about to begin. >> stop it. oh, stop it right now. it's like nails on a chalk board. you all are -- no, really? this is -- >> could watch that over and over. the one last year -- >> yeah, eminem. >> please, clint eastwood's much-talked about super bowl commercial. you all just fall for things way too easily. but he did talk about detroit's comeback. and here with us now from "details" magazine, jesse ashlog who contributed to the latest section on america's rust belt. and he wrote this. maybe it hit you this past super bowl when you saw clint eastwood's to the resilience of detroit.

but the motor city is just like the buckle on the rust belt. an entire region whose very name speaks of decline and decay, but which is now determinedly and definitively finding its way forward. while the rest of america has staggered under the weight of the great recession, the innovators, entrepreneurs, thinkers and doers in cities like pittsburgh, cleveland, buffalo, and youngstown have raced out ahead leading a renaissance whose effects are being felt from coast to coast. now i'm inspired. i didn't need clint eastwood, i needed this article. which talks about real people and real ideas that are trying to make due in this economy. take us to ohio, to the senator state. >> well, in ohio, i think we heard a lot before super tuesday as ohio goes so goes the nation. and i think if we look at some of the people we've profiled in cleveland, there's very good

news. one of my favorites is a design company called a piece of cleveland that goes in and cycled the old growth timber from houses that are about to be demolished and turns it into products. and architectural elements that people want a piece of cleveland can purchase. >> i love it. i love it. in detroit, which i'm sorry, go ahead. >> no, no. >> in detroit, you have other ideas that are basically being borne out of necessity, ingenuity, and optimism. >> indeed. one of my favorites in this story in detroit is a guy named phillip cooley who is a former fashion model and walked international runways before returning home to michigan, to detroit, and he co-founded a smoke joint, a barbecue restaurant called slow's barbecue in a neighborhood called cork town. he was a pioneer.

and it became a kind of symbol of a neighborhood renaissance and a platform for community activism. and his next chapter is what's being called a co-working space. he bought a factory from the 30s that was being foreclosed. and he's turned into a space for creative entrepreneurs much like himself. the rent is absurdly cheap, it's 10 cents a square foot. and the only requirement to become a tenant is that you have to teach your craft, whether it's dance or design or film production to the community. >> all right. so is it halftime in america? >> yeah, and you're really seeing what he just said. you're really seeing this in the launch house in shaker heights, which is an old car dealership that just dozens of entrepreneurs have come in there, start-ups, some of them will fail, probably a majority. but a number of them will have two jobs and ten jobs and 50 jobs. an incubator in youngstown, you're seeing not just a resurge in auto industry, also across

manufacturing, higher components domestic content. meaning more american-made products in the cars that are being assembled at the jeep plant in toledo and at the gm plant. toledo has the leading one of the top two or three in the nation of solar energy manufacturing, you're seeing biomedical advancements and job creation in cleveland and dayton which has always been a sort of center of invention in this country. so it's really happening all over this state. and we have a program we're working on with a lot of young people called the brain gain initiative where we're sort of convening people. part of a senator's job is getting people talking to people talking to each other in different parts of the state. >> and keeping them from leaving. >> and i have two daughters who live in this city for a while and they both moved back to ohio. they see opportunity there and we're going to see that in the years ahead.

>> what is going to be done as part of this to make sure that more people who come here from india, china, japan, wherever around the world and go to cal tech and m.i.t., that they can stay here? >> live in ohio's state? >> well, we need to do -- that's part of the immigration reform that we give them -- you've heard presidential candidates in both parties. and i know harold's talked about this in the past, you give them a visa to stay here once they get that higher ph.d. in math or science. there was a guy -- i was at a guy's company in cleveland the other day who came from japan. he went to case, he was able to stay here, he's got a company of 125 people, he exports, he's growing and doing great things in health care manufacturing. >> this is one thing that mayor bloomberg has talked about before. immigrants able to come here and create jobs and pay taxes, they should be put to the front of the line to ensure they create jobs. but president obama and his team. i know they're listening, this

is a defining difference between romney, santorum, and gingrich and democrats. obama made the choice to invest in america to invest in detroit. actually i wish our convention was being held in detroit because i think the renaissance that you talk about and have written about is defined, it's t the, the kind of investments in entrepreneurship, innovation, in the car industry which has created a multiplier effect, having a connection to michigan, going to the university of michigan law school, this is the difference. the more democrats i believe make this case, the greater our chances are going to be of winning this race and the greater our chances of winning races across the country. i thank you for the piece and look forward to reading it. >> my pleasure. to quote neil young, rust never sleeps. >> well, thank you very much.

"details" magazine, the article is in the next issue of "details." come back soon. senator brown, thank you, as well. very nice to see you. "morning joe" will be right back. when i grow up, i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up,

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♪ 45 past the hour. live look at capitol hill. secretary of state hillary clinton will meet with her russian counterpart at the u.n. today amid sharp divisions over how to end the bloodshed in syria. syrian activists say at least 12 people were killed by pro-government militias in the city of homs on sunday. the region is blaming armed

terrorists for the deaths. the ongoing violence there is expected to dominate talks at the united nations today where russia has repeatedly opposed intervention into syria's crackdown against pro-democracy demonstrators. u.n. special envoy left damascus yesterday without securing a cease-fire deal. that along with afghanistan, a lot going on in the foreign realm. up next, the "morning joe" futbol frenzy. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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♪ all right. it's that time of the week. joining us now, espn soccer analyst, host of the soccer show, on sirius radio. also the author of the book, "star spangled soccer," and i can tell you first-hand, he does a damn good job, because my 2-year-old son wears a soccer jersey around, and it's longer than he is and he demands that he wears it to school. it's getting out of hand. completely out of hand. >> that's how it started. >> roger, let's talk business.

man city. what happened? >> manchester united, the english premier league is entering its home stretch, a ten-game crucible in which teams don't just play their opponents but the immense media pressure. alex ferguson, the united manager calls it squeaky bum time. playing swanzy city, tiny munchkins, a forest of burrzai trees. luke moore jumped off the substitute bench and had manchester city equalized in the dying moments. don't look, gary. offsid offsides. mika, you'll love this, the premier league's only female referee, as in life, in football, it takes a woman to do a man's job. >> that's correct. >> manchester city go down in wales. i think it was the best result

since the 1401 prize. fabulous stuff for football. manchester united, they have been playing dour football, but they have been playing results oriented football, a little like the rick santorum, written off time and time again, but keep on challenging. this is wayne rooney with his left foot, for all members of the hair club, 25th and 26th goal of the season. manchester started the day two points behind, by the end of the weekend, one point ahead in the title race. advantage, manchester united. plenty of games left to play for the title race as well. >> going to be a great battle. thought we had shaken them off, but they keep coming back. close all season. city play united at the end of april. >> the 30th. >> we haven't last at home. so we're confident. but it's getting close. >> objectively, who is the class of the epl this year? >> there's not lots of class

this year. manchester united, they are like a horse that should have been sent to the glue factory and instead of about to win the kentucky derby. unbelievable. you like that in america, it's called sea biscuit. they have none of the experience. and it's really going to come down to a mental race as much as a physical one. >> we have some exciting plays. we play some great soccer. it's the first time we've really sort of challenged the pre mership and i think it's great for the league we're there. we still got ten games left. i think we're in strong position. will we bring back deatethers t finish the season? this is why joe is not here by the way. had a beating this weekend. >> explains it. >> they will have a great time -- manchester city may not win on the field, but you're doing some amazing work off the field. >> really are. >> i want to ask about -- because actually, i was in florida over the weekend and somebody came up to me and said

why do you do soccer? >> is that my mother? >> yeah. it was -- but here's the thing. the city soccer in the community, the effort you all are spearheading and our good friend ucef, that's the reason why. we actually believe in this sport and its future here in america. >> do you? >> i do. >> really? >> my family -- we love the sport. no, i know. everyone -- you all just write me off. >> no. >> have you ever asked? have you ever asked me? >> you've never said a word. >> you guys have never asked. >> any sunday in america -- >> i'm good. >> kids are playing. not in the pro league yet, but kids are playing soccer. >> what did you do in miami? >> look, miami is about really what soccer is about for us in terms of -- we've just built a new soccer field, our third field now, one in los angeles, one in new york. and we have one on friday in miami. >> fantastic. >> this is really sort of a field -- we went down there, kids -- 50 kids to 2 soccer balls and the boys of girls of

miami, and they love soccer down there so we open the field with the ambassador on friday afternoon. we took down our summerby, coaches, we not only provide the field, coaching for the kids. and it's just a phenomenal program. those kids are down there from 7:00 in the morning until 7:00 at night, the boys and girls club. a long day for them. so after the club closes at 3:00 or 4:00, we get them out there playing soccer. keeps them off the streets. >> is the field you built -- that's a great program. is it anywhere near the new miami marlins ballpark? >> the same people that laid the ballpark field laid our field. >> really? >> that's what the kids got. the same class, same quality. >> shot in the dark. >> these kids are playing on a professional, high-standard, world-class soccer field. goals, balls, field kits. >> i bet you had more people at your thing on friday than the marlins in august. >> opening day.

>> a lot of smiling faces, kids. one of those great days. >> congratulations. excellent work. roger, gary. >> look forward to more. i want to be there. >> soccer clothes for the kids. >> fantastic. >> what about me? >> we'll bring you up there. >> we've been working with people. >> my goal is to get mike on his way. he's well on his way. >> my children. you're not going to get me, but my kids. >> the kids love it. >> gentlemen, thank you. don't usually understand a word you're saying, but -- >> gary. >> thanks, guys. >> tomorrow's show, we'll talk to former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. also, music mogul russell simmons. >> very cool. >> still ahead, nbc special correspondent meredith vieira joining us on-set. and up next, the republican field dukes it out. new polls show a couple air-tight races. santorum routed romney in

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♪ good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on-set, we have mike barnicle. we also have msnbc political analysts harold ford jr. and steve schmidt and andrea mitchell in washington. first, let's start with afghanistan. a united states army sergeant is

being detained after american officials say he went on a nighttime massacre over the weekend, killing 16 afghan civilians as they slept in their homes. a coalition spokesman says the rogue shooter abandoned his host at a military base and walked to a nearby village. there, he allegedly opened fire inside three separate homes, killing as many as nine children. five other civilians were reported injured. president obama, who was attending his daughter's basketball game in maryland personally called afghan president hamid karzai. in a statement, he offered his condolences with the victims' families and said the incident does not represent the u.s. military. but afghan president hamid karzai is demanding answers from the u.s. government, saying, quote, this is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven. we're going to talk to our panel and start with nbc chief

pentagon correspondent jim miklashevski. jim, anymore details on this incident, but also the implications on our mission there, especially in light of all of the aftermath since the quran burnings? >> mika, this was a 38-year-old staff sergeant out of ft. louisialewis, washington. already served three tours in iraq. when he walked off his base in kandahar in southern afghanistan in 3:00 in the morning, walked a mile to a nearby village, and allegedly walked into as many as three separate homes and killed afghan civilians as they slept. the death toll, according to afghanistan officials, is 16 dead, including 9 children, 3 women, and at least 4 men. those five that were wounded that you're talking about are being treated at a u.s. military facility there in kandahar. i've got to tell you, every u.s. military official i talk to sounded as if they had been punched in the gut.

>> yeah. >> one used a word i had never heard before when describing these kinds of incidents. dreadful. this was murder, according to one u.s. military official. and while everybody is promising that this shooter will be brought to swift justice, unfortunately, we've heard this before, mika. >> we have. and i mean, look, the headlines were crossing yesterday, and i was watching people reacting to this, thinking why are we still there, why don't we pull back? i asked the question in a different way and show you some post news polls that show 60% of americans no longer support the war in afghanistan, doubling the 35% who say the war has been worth the costs. asked whether u.s. forces should stay until afghan army members are trained or withdrawn now, 54% say withdraw now. 43% say keep forces until the afghan army is trained. we could go on with this, but i'll just make -- it seems kind of basic. but what would be different if

the drawdown was moved up? what would change? >> what was particularly tragic about this incident is that this soldier was working with u.s. special operations forces with green berets on village operations to ingratiate themselves with the vil angers, teach them how to defend themselves, how to fend for themselves, hearts and minds campaign, key to any u.s. military success there in afghanistan. but this incident has now clearly set that entire strategy on its head. >> jim miklashevski, stick around and jump in the conversation again. i'll take it to andrea mitchell now and the rest of the panel, as well. i'll ask you the same question, andrea. what are the implications of moving up the drawdown, and what exactly, and there are many who look at these headlines this morning who think, what are we still doing there? >> there's going to be political pressure from all sides, even newt gingrich, we're talking about republicans as well as

democrats. there are different wings, as you know, of the republican party. so you have john mccain and lindsay graham who are going to argue we should not be accelerating the withdrawal. but there is a lot of pressure on the other side. you've got david cameron, the british prime minister coming for crucial talks this week on iran, on afghanistan. the pace of withdrawal leading up to, of course, the nato meetings in may. all of this taking place as mik pointed out, while there was a significant effort to, quote, win the hearts and minds. that's an echo of vietnam, of course. but here we had the policy of trying to win them over, and also at the same time persuade people that the taliban were a spent force. that we could negotiate some kind of withdrawal with the taliban. and now the taliban are going to be reenergized. we're waiting with baited breath. this is going to be a big debate in the u.s. about hastening withdrawal and a withdrawal not on the terms we wanted.

>> and afghanistan back on the campaign trail. newt gingrich was asked in the immediate aftermath of this news story. in fact, as it was breaking, what he thought now about afghanistan policy for the united states in light of the events yesterday. here's what he said. >> i don't think we have the willpower or the capacity to do the things you have to do to fundamentally change the region. we need to understand that our being in the middle of countries like afghanistan is probably counterproductive. we're not prepared to be ruthless enough to force them to change. and yet we're clearly an alien presence. >> hey, mik, i ask you this question not rhetorically, but quite sincerely, because i think people watching this show, americans, need to be reminded or need to know at least the rationale is. when you talk to people in the highest reaches of the pentagon, beyond the hearts and minds, what is the justification for the united states being in afghanistan 10 1/2 years after 9/11? >> if you listen to senior military officials and secretary of defense leon panetta and the

white house, actually, the primary mission here is to ensure that the taliban and al qaeda do not again claim territory, hold territory in afghanistan to provide a safe haven for terrorist attacks against the u.s. but quite frankly, you know, i am even hearing some doubts now, in the mind of some senior military officials, not necessarily as to the point of the mission, but whether it can be successful. given the kind of corruption, mistrust there is there on the part of the afghanistan government in working with the united states. and in some case, mistrust in working with the afghan people. and just one quick point. you know, we heard from the top u.s. military commander there in afghanistan, general john allen, who condemned the actions of this one individual soldier as ael paing and promised justice.

but it does raise a question here on the heels of the quran-burning incident, and it's something the u.s. military calls command climate. and there are some questions being raised as to whether, as the u.s. forces prepare to withdraw, whether some forces are not perhaps paying as much attention, are not as disciplined in case of the quran burning, and maybe in this case, how did that soldier get off the base in the military -- of the military base in the middle of the morning unaccompanied. so that's a question that has to be asked here at the pentagon and there in afghanistan, as to whether the focus of those u.s. military forces is centered on afghanistan in that war. >> and, you know, joe and i have heard republicans quietly talking about how this is just becoming more and more difficult to depend, any type of prolonged presence there. mike barnicle, we move on to politics, but i just want to know what crossed your mind when you saw this cross the wires? >> let's try and sum this up.

we've been in this country for 10 1/2 years at the cost of thousands of lives and billions of dollars. militarily, if you ask yourself, can you define win or victory in afghanistan, militarily and if you can, good luck to you. can you achieve that goal that you've set for yourself militarily? i would submit that the answers to both are no. and i would submit that during the course of a presidential campaign here in the united states, the weight of afghanistan and the weight of what happened over this past weekend in afghanistan could create a tet offensive moment. when you get the combination of politics and the combination of war wariness in this country. and clearly, a very deranged member of the military, as mik pointed out, walking one mile from a base into a town and committing murder. walking one mile in the middle of the night, a single soldier.

this could -- this could be a tet offensive moment. >> and before we move right on to the races, steve schmidt, in terms of advising candidates when there is a foreign policy event, this can be a game-changer, if i -- if i could, when it comes to a major foreign policy event. it also can be taken advantage of by candidates and dealt with irresponsibly. fair enough? it's a little scary. >> yeah, i think the divide in the republican party playing out with newt gingrich's comments. george will, for example, has been there for a long time. and i think you'll see this debate now open up in a pretty profound way in the republican party. because the fact of the matter is, the mission is not clear there. the goals are not clear. the karzai government is a corrupt government. and the reality is, when you talk to people who have served there, they don't understand what the mission is. what the focus is. and when we leave afghanistan, which we will eventually leave, it will be as if we have never been there. and we will learn the lessons

that the russians have learned, that the british have learned. it's not for nothing that afghanistan has been called the graveyard of empires. >> well, the mission is not clear there. many people say that. the mission is not complete. many people will say that. but the question is, will it ever be? no. and at some point, when do you just say, we're never going to complete it, we must now leave. what good can come from staying there longer? >> i think we are in afghanistan because we were attacked on september 11th. al qaeda in afghanistan has been decapitated. we will not be successful trying to impose a western, secular democracy on afghanistan. not this year, not in 100 years. and i think that our venture there is in its waning days as we look at this terrible tragedy that has taken place. but the lack of a goal and the lack of an ability to articulate

what defines success means that i think you're going to see a pretty sharp debate break open. not just in the country, but particularly in the republican party. >> this same debate, obviously, has been occurring in the democratic caucus in the house and the senate now for years. as the campaign unfolds. the same questions raised by steven, i would argue some of the similar questions have been raised by republican candidates will continue to be raised by democratic senate kaebts candidates across the country. certainly those up for re-election. it will be interesting to see how the defense team, security team, is able to continue to justify a large presence. >> before we move on to the primaries we're covering, jim miklashevski, final thoughts on this topic. >> i wanted to follow up on what mike barnicle had to say, in comparing this to vietnam. president obama has made it clear, he doesn't want afghanistan to be his vietnam. back during vietnam, lyndon johnson turned to his aides once and said, "if we've lost walter cronkite, we've lost the world."

i think the u.s. military has lost a lot of americans after this weekend. >> for one moment i thought you were comparing walter cronkite to mike barnicle. >> there you go. hey, mik, thank you very much. >> thanks, mik. let's make the turn to politics. rick santorum coming off a good weekend for him in kansas even as the romney campaign is claiming mommy it entumomentum. saturday, santorum won by 30 points, 51% support for him. romney swept the contest in guam, the u.s. virgin islands and the northern mariania islands. also won in wyoming's county conventions saturday. all together, romney added 39. santorum 36. romney leads santorum by more than 200 delegates. rick santorum, though, is rejecting the argument his rival's edge in delegates makes him inevitable. >> romney needs about 50% of the delegates to be able -- and on the current track we're on right now, the fact is, governor

romney doesn't get to that number. so the idea that you just make projections, i mean, this isn't a mathematical formula. someone who is outspent 10-1 who has all of the establishment behind him, yet he can't close the deal -- i've got my home state yet to go. governor romney has had three of his home states already. so it's important for us to look to the future and see the opportunities we have. that's how we get back in this race. and if we can get a one-on-one, we've seen in the states we have had one-on-ones, we have done very well. >> so tomorrow we get steve schmidt, alabama and mississippi. the polls there show it very tight. when you look at the numbers there, as you have in previous campaigns, do gingrich and santorum split the conservative vote and make a pathway for romney there? >> well, i think if you look at the polls right now and you look at how romney has performed in these other southern states, it's tough to see how he comes out on top in these southern states. so i think even with the divided conservative vote, you're going

to see either santorum or gingrich win in those states. i think it's important for newt gingrich to rack up some victories. still ahead, the psychological of politics. a new book explores how human nature is driving the partisan divide. up next, though, meredith vieira and liza johnson join us to discuss their new film about the transition from soldier to mom. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> well, mika, we're watching this unbelievably warm spring-like weather continuing this week. incredible warmth. all week. usually this time of year you only get it for a day or to. yesterday we had highs in the upper 60s from minneapolis to billings. even northern new england in the 50's. today we continue this amazing trend. we are watching rain moving through the great lakes. later today, chicago will have a chance for strong thunderstorms. could be an isolated tornado. if you're joining from oregon or washington state, you have by far the worst weather out there.

strong, gusty winds and heavy rain at the coast. but the story, warm just about everywhere. look at these temperatures. up to 70 in new york city. we should only be in the upper to mid 40s this time of year. and it continues even into tomorrow. look at chicago, sunny. kansas city, near 80 and sunny. and this will continue, as i said, until the end of the week. washington, d.c. could be one of those spots in the 70s from today all the way through friday. i guess we just should enjoy it and maybe accept this as a norm. there's meredith. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry !

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what do you mean, what? >> i can't. >> what, you can't even wait for me to get off the phone? >> i just can't do it. >> what can't you do? inventory, shipping? did i say something wrong? suddenly you're the sensitive type? >> i didn't say anything. >> no, it's not that. >> kept your job open for a year. you've been working for me for 12 years. i would like to know the reason. >> he's just upset. >> that was a clip from the film "return" about a woman who returns from a tour of duty but struggles to reconnect to her former life. and here with us now, the film's executive producer and nbc's special correspondent, meredith vieira, along with the film's writer and director, liza

johnson. gosh, you know what, today of all days is a really poignant day to talk about this, because we have been talking throughout the show, liza and meredith, about the repeat tours of duty and the impact on these soldiers' mental health, literal literally, their ability to survive after coming home, finally. after one, two, three, four, five tours of duty. and you look at a woman who has a problem transitioning back. it's a very real life story for so many people in this country now. i guess first of all, do you hope the message of the movie is, and what do you hope people will see? >> i think you see linda cartlena plays a character named kelly and she is wonderful in the role and subtle. and it asks you to think in a new way about what the experience of coming home is like. it's not clear whether she has a condition like ptsd or whether it simply takes her some time to

readjust her sense of purpose when she gets back to everyday routine american life, like with the job that she's always had. and, you know, just other aspects of every day that aren't as clear in their sense of purpose as the work she has been doing. >> it's also, i think, a message to focus here who have a loved one that has served that have come home. in this film, they're all looking for, as one character says, the oprah moment. what makes you so different. and she doesn't have that moment, because you don't need to have that. but people tend to misunderstand what that experience has been like mentally. >> how about this? you're just different. >> yeah. >> you're just different. there may not be have been -- some of them do have horrific defining moments, obviously, that haunt them forever. others just come back after such a long period of time and how do you reassimilate how does a family put itself back together again, mike barnicle? >> one of the reasons, in addition to this being a great

film, it's an important film, is that this is a deeply flawed culture that we're a part. when you can go -- any of us can go days, weeks, months on end, without encountering any reminder of the fact that we have been at war for ten and a half years, when that war has settled on the shoulders and families of individuals who form 1% of the population of this country and are ignored largely by 99%, you want to talk about the real %, they are the real 1%. that's why this is an important film. >> that's what our friend colonel jack jacobs says, you go to any town in any given american city, you have to knock on 200, 300 doors before you find a military family. meredith, it's an interesting point of view from a woman's point of view in this film. because lot of times you look at the guys on the front lines, gruff combat veterans coming back and having to deal with families. but it's different for a mother. >> exactly. and i think that's what's attracted me to liza's script. you rarely hear the woman's

perspective. and here is linda playing kelly, she comes back with a husband and two children, and she wants to reassimilate and it's really the arc of one year you follow her to see what happens to her. but it's very different. >> what was it about the woman's story that drew you to this project? >> i guess i just realized how infrequently i had heard that story. and a lot of the things that happen to kelly also happen to male soldiers, you know, like male soldiers also leave their children. but i think you feel it in a different way when you see the story from the mother's point of view. >> it's just -- you know, you've covered this story. we've covered this story. for ten years, obviously, in this case. and afghanistan. and the impact on not just the soldiers, but on every member of the family. >> absolutely. >> we're just routing out a generation. i mean, i don't know how much of longer this now making a statement more than asking a question, how much longer this has to go on before we realize

we're probably not going to have much of an impact there. >> i don't think people here want to know. either they don't know anybody over there fighting or they don't want to hear about it. >> right. that's sad. >> it's very sad. >> that's wrong. >> none of the candidates speak about it. >> it's irresponsible. >> talking about grits yesterday. >> y'all. >> this is the first of meredith vieira productions. >> hopefully not the last. we're going to go for another. we have a documentary coming out on discovery, which we're very excited about, "the woman who wasn't there," about a woman in the world trade towers when they collapsed. her husband died. she escaped. she actually helped form the survivors' network. so you'll see old video with her with the governor. great story. she gave them a voice. the only thing is, she was never in the towers. she made the whole thing up. so it's a real story. >> where do we see this movie? >> "return" you can see now on

demand, almost all cable systems and also on itunes. >> perfect. i'm going to be looking for that. and howard, what's it like to sleep in? >> i usually stay up all night drinking. >> you did that on the "today" show. >> it's not different. >> why change now? >> it worked then. you know what, it's weird, because i did the "today" show for five years, and when you're doing any of this stuff, you just do it. once you step away, you go, how did i ever -- >> what was i thinking? >> what was i thinking? what are you thinking? >> i'll tell you what i'm thinking. no. >> it was a great job. but it's nice to get a little rest. >> i bet. >> and wonderful to be more involved in these kinds of projects. >> that's fulfilling. >> absolutely. >> and this is an possibility movie. i look forward to watching it. i'm going to watch it with my family. and i really appreciate your taking on this part of the story. i really do. "return" is now showing in select theatres and on video on demand. visit return-film.com for more information. meredith, thank you very much. liza, thank you very much.

great to meet you. congratulations. coming up, the righteous mind author jonathan haidt on how psychologist impacts politics and how some are over often before they begin. really? i never knew that here on "morning joe." that's next on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] you have plans, moments you're looking forward to. what if they were stolen from you? by alzheimer's. this cruel disease is the nation's sixth leading cause of death, affecting more than 5 million americans. the alzheimer's association has been behind every major advancement and continues to lead the fight against alzheimer's. we won't rest until we have a cure. join us. go to alz.org.  wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

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i'm learning to say y'all, and i like grits. and the things -- strange things are happening to me. morning y'all. good to be with you. i get it right this morning with a biscuit and some cheesy grits. >> governor romney indicated yesterday morning it was the first time he ever tasted grits. i just wanted to reassure all of you that i have had some acquaintance in a variety of forms, whether it's with shrimp, with cheese, with gravy, i get it. i like grits, i like cheese grits, grits with gravy. a number of way you can have grits. i understand cheese grits. i even understand shrimp and grits, how is that? if you don't understand grits, it's pretty likely you don't understand the rest of the south

either. >> okay. so -- i need help. i need maybe a psychology professor to help me with this. they're arguing over grits, sir. here with us now is psychology professor at the university of virginia, jonathan haidt, author of "the richous mind," why good people are divided by politics and religion. and in the republican primary race, apparently, grits. very nice to meet you. thanks for being on the show. >> thanks, mika. >> first of all, what's the big idea of the big? >> the big idea of the book, motor morality is not what we think it is, it's something we think has to make us good people. but from a psychological perspective, what morality is really about is binding people together in groups that can work with people in other groups. we are fundamentally, righteous, tribal creatures. and some gangs are -- it's like gangs with gang signs. some gangs circle around certain sacred objects or issues.

they wear certain kinds of clothing, eat grits in a certain way. anything that marks you as a member of a team becomes sort of a moralized aspect. and then the teams compete and that's what politics is. >> well, okay, barn. >> how does it come about off that definition that it seems over the course of the past 20, 25 years, republicans, within the context of the argument, are saying, our tribe is more moral than your tribe. >> has better values. >> how do they do that, and they have connected with that argument. >> that's right. so it's a kind of sad story about how the democrats made it real easy for them to be painted as the party of sin and loose morals in the '60s and '70s, the cultural revolution. nixon said the party of acid, amnesty and what was the third a? oh, abortion. so while the democrats were moving to embrace looser morals in the '60s and '70s, the republican party had this corporate merger with the religious right. and that happened in response to

the losing of the morals in the '620s and '70s. the right had shunned politics for the whole 20th century until in the '70s they were so horrified, come charging in, join with the republican party. and now you've got the republican party is this hybrid of liberty aryans and social conservatives happy to tell women what they can put in their bodies before they can do what they want to do. >> and, of course, democrats go to church too. >> less often. >> why is it republicans have been able to own this issue? >> my view as a social psychologist is that the republicans -- conservatives generally really understand morality. they understand it to be much broader than just a matter of protecting victims. one of the basic principles in the book is follow the sacredness. if you understand what each gang or team circles around, you can see there is a circle of darkness or behilindness.

so liberalism goes back hundreds of years but in the 1960s, the new left circles around victim groups, especially african-american but also women and gay people. that gives us the outlines until 2008. >> so i want to talk about rick santorum, but first i couldn't help but notice this. you called newt gingrich a good, moral psychologist. explain that. >> by good, i don't mean that i approve and that he's nice. i mean skillful. gingrich is -- he plays hard ball. he was a member of the republican minority that had been shut out of power for decades. i understand why when he came in '95 as speaker, i understand why he was so angry, why he wanted a much rougher -- when the republicans took over, they it really played hardball. one of the things that led to them taking over, gingrich formulated a list of words,

dirty, sick, twisted. this is smart moral psychology. you press the right emotional buttons and later when you put the arguments out there -- >> so he's manipulative psychologically. >> well, all politicians are. the republicans are more skillful -- >> he's good at it. >> the republicans are generally more skillful than the democrats. >> you've got it right in the title why good people are divided by politics. never more so than now. not just the politicians themselves, but the people who support those points of view, whether online. it's ugly out there. >> yes. >> do you see any hope in your studies for things coming back to the center? or will they be pushed further apart? >> on their own, no, i don't see any hope. if we don't take some rather dramatic steps, things continue to get worse. part of what's happening, we have this historically unusual period of the mid '0s through the '80s, this post war consensus, greatest generation able to work together. now that all of that is behind us and the greatest generation is leaving, the baby boomers, their foundational -- their developmental event was fighting each other within this country.

so as they took over the political leadership, that was one of several reasons why things have gotten worse. i don't know that the millennials is less polarized. >> you pointed out it took nearly a century for evangelicals to be drawn into politics. is it people that it requires someone, whoever, running for office to tap into a vein and say, hey, speak up about your morality. >> again, follow the sacredness. if you see what a group holds sacred, they're going to devote themselves to worshipping that thing and that thing could be jesus christ and the bible. so they do that. we have separation of church and state, they don't want to get messed up in the ugliness of politics. and then if those sacred things get threatened, supreme court says no prayer in schools, abortion on demand, they come roaring out and want to fight for it. >> fascinating. the book is called "the righteous mind: why good people are divided by politics and

religion." thank you very much. nice to meet you. coming up, friday's big jobs report. business before the bell is next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪

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and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. ♪ mitt romney won a key victory in the ohio super tuesday primary. narrowly beating rick santorum by just 1%. specifically, the 1%. despite only winning the super tuesday primary in georgia, newt gingrich vowed to continue his campaign, saying i'm the tortoise, i take it one step at a time. also, if you roll me on to my back, i can never get up. rick santorum today won the

kansas caucuses, beating mitt romney by 30%. santorum was expected to do well in kansas, because it's also a giant square. >> my goodness. >> okay. >> welcome back to "morning joe." we're just getting some new polls, abc washington poll shows obama's approval reversing since february. 46% of the country approves the job he is doing as president. 50% disapprove. that's an exact flip from just a month ago. that's an interesting number. >> people went out driving. >> what? >> gas. >> okay. there you go. >> the economy, president obama not doing much better. he's got a 38% approval rating, down six points from february. this is on the question of the economy and how he's handling it. 59% of americans disapprove of the way he's handling the economy. that's also up six points. interesting. on gas prices, 65% disapprove of the president. his approval and his responsibility for his handling

of gas prices. only 26% approve. all right. what does this mean? let's check in with cnbc's brian shactman live across the river at cnbc. brian, what do you see in those numbers? >> i know the president doesn't trade oil contracts, i'll tell you that much. listen, the gas prices are the one thing that could derail this somewhat fragile recovery, guys. that's important. i will say the rate in increases has slowed a little bit, and i've talked to economists and they basically say that to really derail it, you need to get above $4 and stay there. if we stay at this level, it could be a huge issue, but might not derail the recovery. that's the basic take on gas prices. but it's interesting, we have 700,000 plus jobs created in the last three months, but a lot of economists over the weekend were reducing their gdp projections and gas prices are part of it. and part is the trade deficit. this export plan by president obama, imports outpacing exports by the widest margin in some three years. and that was lost on a lot of people talking about jobs on

friday. the other thing i want to talk about is the auto bailout quickly. people talk about the auto industry, gm made $8 billion last year. one company we never talk about that's trying to be the number one automaker in the world is volkswagen. vw had $20 billion in profits last year. so this industry is obviously doing well, no matter what the gas prices are these days. >> interesting, brian. back on that jobs number, was it 227, the number on friday. viewed by good by members of the white house but the gas prices cuts into it. >> no doubt. and that is the issue and the republicans tried to grab on it a couple weeks ago. i think it still needs to get to record levels to really be an issue. no one is talking about recession or anything like that. and i do want to point out, you would say, willie -- what, 6% is a good, comfortable level of unemployment, correct? >> sure. >> okay. so at the current job growth level, a couple economists told me we would get to that level in 2015. so you know, employment is still a major negative, even though

the trend is positive. >> yeah. it's not going anywhere. but if you can keep the trend lines moving -- barnicle, you're right. that gas number, it's going to hurt over the summer. >> yeah. >> brian shactman, cnbc headquarters. thanks, brian. >> just take the tea to again w way. >> there you go. >> apparently couldn't convince tina fey to come back to do her sarah palin, so they went way down the depth chart and got andy samberg to sit in. it's good, and it's next.

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♪ >> well, howdy there, seth, don't ya know. good to be back here on snl. >> andy, what are you doing, where's tina? >> it's okay, i've got this. oh, yeah, don't ya know, you're darn-tooting. >> andy, tina was supposed to do this. >> tina got sick, all right, but don't worry, i'm filling in, and i'm killing it.

>> you're not killing it. >> yes, i am, just watch. oh, yeah! people keep asking me, what does sarah palin think of this newt game-change movie. and i say, i don't know, i'll i'll-ask-a. >> you've got to stop doing this. >> oh, boy, you're going to make me do my famous catch phrase, okay. i did not have sexual relations with that woman. >> that's bill clinton. andy! >> andy samberg not doing a good job. >> terrible. we do some sports right here, and you know why? >> why? >> because vanderbilt are champs, that's why. they beat number one kentucky yesterday in new orleans, in the championship game of the s.e.c. tournament, their first tournament title since 1951. if you can believe that. kentucky was in the middle of a 24-game win streak. john jenkins, the shooter, nice pass to goldburn for the

alley-oop. kentucky started to open it up a little bit, we got worried they were going to run away with it with their mini lottery picks, up five. vanderbilt fought back. the game tied at 62, vanderbilt a three-point lead and won 71-64. kevin stallings overcome by emotion at the end of the game. that's a great moment. he beat the best team in the country. >> vanderbilt is a very good basketball team, i'll give you that. you and buster oil knee. >> good one. >> our the only two people in america who think vanderbilt is going to be in the final four. >> that's not true. you know who else, greg anthony, dick vital. >> they all have it. >> vanderbilt is the sleeper final four pick and i hate it. stop picking vanderbilt. >> thursday afternoon, you'll be -- you'll be doing the

impression of the head coach. >> stop it. leave him alone. >> nice moment. >> not nice. >> they overcome kentucky. >> you're mean. >> unc lost to florida state. but kentucky and carolina still got their number one seeds. kentucky number one in the south. carolina in the midwest. syracuse in the east. michigan state, number one out west. full brackets online at madness.nbcsports.com. >> you've got to watch vanderbilt-harvard, harvard in for the first time since 1946. >> that was a great game. >> that game. you were there. >> yeah. >> their first trip since '46. that game is in albuquerque thursday. 14th seeded south dakota state, the jackrabbits. a lot of people looking at that team saying they're good. only became a division one program four years ago in the midwest. georgetown, d.c. viewers, keep your eye on that game. >> okay, i think that's enough. >> belmont out of nashville, tennessee almost beat duke this year. upset team. and vcu, of course, the team of

the tournament last year. dick vital going to be on this program on wednesday. bigger on thursday. >> whoa. huge. >> what about vanderbilt, do you have anything else? >> i love jay billis. >> the best. >> going to be a big week on "morning joe." tiger woods, the 11th hole yesterday, cadillac championship, drops his club after a second shot on the par 4. he was carted off the course after injuring his left achilles tendon. same achilles he injured last year at augusta national, caused him to miss a couple majors. the masters starts april 5th, a couple weeks from now. >> okay. very good. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? ♪

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i'm learning to say y'all, and i like grits, and the things are strange that are happening to me. morning y'all. good to be with you.

i got to start it right this morning with a biscuit and cheesy grits. >> i wouldn't normally give advice to republicans, particularly mitt romney, but as a southerner, i would tell him, that kind of stuff doesn't go over really well in the deep south. i will tell him this. he might not have heard this. but if somebody says they love the s.e.c., it's not the investigative body that looks into off shore kayman bank accounts. it's the world's football conference. state of kansas when you've got the support of somebody like bob dole but don't do that well in kansas, 21, 22% of the vote like mitt romney does, i think it shows you've got some real problems on the road to this nomination. >> okay, y'all. time now to talk about what we learned today. see, it doesn't work, does it? it's just not you. you shouldn't do it. >> as someone who moved from new jersey to the south to go to college and spend a decade in the south, don't fake being southern. just be you. >> here's what i learned. >> took you ten years to get out of college? >> yes, isn't that outrageous? >> i understand that.

i learned that jim mitchell -- jim mitchell, our very own jim mitchell, awarded the national indoor coach of the year, bronxville, new york, girls track coach. there he is, giving the award yesterday. he is fantastic. he has been coaching the bronxville girls since 1979, started the girls' track team there. and his team always consists of great runners who are also great people. and great friends. jim mitchell, you're an inspiration. thank you very much. and congratulations. >> congrats. >> did you learn anything better than that? >> no, ma'am. i sure didn't. >> not better, but pay attention to what steve schmidt said here. >> ooh, that was a fantastic interview. some revelations there about the -- not only the game-change movie, but his insights and reflections looking back. i thought it was incredible. check it out online. willie, it's way too early. >> it's morni"morning joe." stick around for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. >> tragedy in afte