brother where art,000. >> ♪ i am a man of constant sorrow ♪ ♪ i've seen trouble >> we begin as the republican roller coaster keeps on going and as rick santorum dozen it again, a southern slam giving him a double whammy of wins in alabama and mississippi. santorum proving himself the white knight of white evangelicals who cast more than two-thirds of the votes in both states giving santorum 35% of the vote in alabama, 33% in mississippi. and with the santorum surge spreading it across the nation, sorry, i'm sorry, it was onto puerto rico where santorum may have achieved a new pinnacle of political pandering. >> i was referred to by many in my state as senator puerto

ricocanio. >> for mitt romney, it's a conservative cold shoulder as he hits a certified southern losing streak sending him begging for more cash today just a few blocks from here at new york waldorf-astoria. indeed, after all the cheesy grits, biscuits and the catfish, maybe the supposed front-runner has developed a southern fried stomach you sker, especially after he let this escape his lips tuesday afternoon. >>. >> santorum is at the desperate end of his campaign and is trying to in many way to boost his prospects and frankly, misrepresenting the truth is not a good way of doing that. >> wait, who's desperate? santorum? hmm, interesting. let's bring in our panel now. with us from washington, msnbc political analyst and georgetown university professor microal eric dyson, michele cottle of news week and the daily beefrt

and the senior writer from the salon.com. congratulations, steve. i have to start with you and i read your article the moment mitt's dreaded. with all the campaign disasters there have been for this man, i guess if he did drink alcohol, he would be crying into his beer today, wouldn't? >> he >> yeah, or at least maybe a little more apprehensive about the future of this race than he's probably had reason to be because he's kind of been protected from the beginning of this process by the fact that there were so many conservatives running against him trying to be that romney alternative and conservative votersen an activists couldn't seem to settle on one. you have this feeling coming out of alabama and mississippi that this is the moment that santorum, this is the moment that conservatives have been building towards here. i know gingrich is still there. doesn't sound like he's going to go away on his own. it raises the question who he sort of organically be eliminated from this race? will conservative voters now look at him and say you're done, our vehicle now is santorum. we have that one-on-one race

now. >> it's all solidifying around santorum. michele, by the math, mitt romney was the winner. he took the most delegates, cemented his national delegate lead thanks in part to the good people of hawaii and american samoa, those important states. why does it feel like he's in trouble today? >> well, i think because it was a bit of a surprise for santorum to take both states. nobody expected the santorum sweep so to speak in the south which suggests that the conservative bat is drawing to a close. as people have noted, there's no reason mathematically or in terms of being a real prospect for newt to stay in. at this point, it's sheer meanness or maybe there's the suspicion he's staying in there as a way to kind of keep the establishment happy and you know, not have everybody coalesce behind santorum. so it was really last night. had nothing 0 much to do about romn romney. it was all about was this going to be a two-man race.

that is increasingly what it looks like. >> professor dyson, more than three-quarts of the voters in mississippi and alabama were evangelical christians, 80% and 83% this they showed no love for mitt. perhaps more alarmingly, they do appear to be coalescing around santorum. does that make rick a real threat in this race do you think or do you take romney's view and his camp's view that they still are likely to be the nominee? >> well, to borrow william sapphire's phrase supplied to spiro agnew, he's a nattering naibob of neg taism and negativity to be sure. i think he's a substantial threat not only because the south doesn't give any indication that will support mr. romney, that those who are evangelical piusists will in any way concede the legitimacy of the more mon faith.

on top of that, santorum seems to be charging with a full head of steam and also got more enthusiasm. has anybody looked lessenthus yas tick about being the front-runner than mitt romney? >> his wife looks pretty unenthusiastic on most occasions. >> i'll leave that to them to decide domestically. the reality is that, of course, rick santorum does prove to be a serious problem here. and as both guests have indicated, he's not going away jentsly into that night but he's raging against the dying of the light. the light is getting bigger and somebody said yeah, the light at the end of the tunnel may be a train coming in the opposite direction that mitt romney saw but it's santorum coming at him hard. i don't think this is going to be over for a while. >> to professor dyson's point, steve, santorum can did well last night. isn't last night a problem for him going forward in that there are not going to be states like alabama and mississippi with that rich concentration of white

evangelicals? over 90% of the population who voted, republicans who voted in alabama and mississippi white, over 80% evangelical. he's going to have problems in the other states because that isn't the makeup of the republicans elsewhere, is it. >> the anti-romney vote on the republican side has been more rural, more religious, christian, lower income and southern. southern itself has been a key to that. so had you all four of those in mississippi and alabama. >> in illinois? >> 41% of the illinois electorate in the 2008 primary which john mccain won identified as evangelical christian. if we get this two-man race we've been talking about since last year, think of how many plos we've seen where we've looked at them and said wow, if huckabee and trump, if palin and perry or somebody like that, if they could just get together, then mitt romney would really have a nightmare. i don't know. i think it's a great unknown. how much anti romney resistance

is out there outside of a state like mississippi. >> a new quinnipiac poll shows vum smashing romney in pennsylvania. a 14-point lead there. so the romney can't win the bible belt. he's got issues in the rust belt. yet, we keep being told that mitt's inevitable. >> that has been mitt's story line all long. if he doesn't have that, he doesn't have anything because he doesn't have the charm, he doesn't do the retail politics well. he's not idea logically in tune with the base. >> his best friends own nascar and nfl franchises. >> so they have to -- >> are they not assets? >> well, when it comes time for funding, they're certainly assets. but you know, being the 1% doesn't add up to an electoral victory necessarily. >> indeed. professor dyson, we've seen a slew of polls with varying results on the president's approval rating from 41% as you

know to 50. are the polls broken or are we just that far from being able to tie the president's approval with things like gas prices? >> yeah, it's very difficult to tell. i mean, as you've already pointed out in regard to mr. romney, these polls don't exactly track scientifically because when he's supposed to be winning, he's not really doing so. he comes up with a few surprises here and there. so the mechanics of trying to determine whether or not obama is successful is not about the math. it's about the chemistry. and so here i think what's going on is that obama strikes a nerve in the heart of the american middle states as well as some of those states that are significantly blue. so when you begin to tinker with his numbers i think he's much more successful at being able to concede the legitimacy of some points coming from the republican side. all that stuff he did early on in his administration are trying to reach across the aisle will stand him in good stead now as he seeks to define what the democratic vision will be for this coming election, and as he

continues to make headway among the independents. so i think that these polls are going back and forth. we'll see who has the true grit or in mitt romney's case the true cheese grits as soon as we figure out what the american people. >> professor, you're talking about chemistry. mitt romney is at the waldorf astore yas today with millionaires and billionaires. there's real chemistry there, isn't there. >> there's no doubt, there's chemistry, math, biology, probably some accounting going on, as well. none of the liberal arts. what's interesting is that this race continues to expose the flanks of those who say that they're for the people that they're populists in a serious way and those who are truly down for them. obama continues to raise money primarily among people who are nickelling and diming themselves into the process whereas mitt romney is taking super pac money big-time. they all are, but the

disproportionate money in the super pacs suggest his clientele is much richer and much whiter. >> michele, given mitt romney's propensity to mimic the vern knack cue lar of the states, do you think he's saying y'all at the waldorf-astoria today? >> i think he's much more in his element today. he won't have to eat anything funny. no catfish on the menu. he can quick back and relax for at least one afternoon. >> wonderful. i'm sure he would be delighted to do that. thank you all for joining us. next, newt wants to go to the convention come hell or high water. stay with us. >> when i was winning and he wasn't, i wanted had imout. life is like that. he said no. so i want to quote santorum, no. [ woman ] dear cat, gentle cat, your hair mixes with pollen and dust in the air. i get congested. my eyes itch.

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now to the most destructive march through the south since sherman and gingrich vowing to roll on to tampa. despite calls for him to it quits after losing in dixie last night. >> the we now have three or four days of the news media saying why doesn't gingrich quick. they recycle this every six weeks and the biggest challenge will be raising money. >> the biggest challenge indeed will be raising money. it's not just the elite media say that losing the south may mean the eject button. it's the chief of newt's own super pac, rick tyler. this is pretty important. the pac always felt we needed to win both of these states to change the narrative. joining us from nashville is the head of the gingrich super pac, rick tyler. good afternoon, sir. >> how are you? >> i want to start with some

measure of congratulations. your man gingrich did take second in mississippi and alabama, forcing romney into third place. but mr. tyler, you were quoted as saying we needed to win both those states. sadly, you didn't. but is winning this thing now secondary to you to injuring mitt romney? is that the purpose of gingrich? >> no, not entirely. what i said was -- >> not entirely? mr. tyler, you think it is partially, don't you? >> well, i think we're going to do everything at the super pac to keep mitt romney from getting the nomination. i did say we needed to win alabama and mississippi to change the narrative. we will change the narrative moving forward. i predict now the that newt gingrich will arrive in tampa on equal footing with mitt romney and rick santorum and ron paul. and the reason is is none of those people will have the requisite amount of delegates to take the nomination. my guess is after the first ballot which romney will fail,

it's a better than even chance that newt gingrich could win a nomination on the second ballot. >> mr. tyler, based on where we are at the moment, romney has said he's got more than a million more votes than gingrich and two times the number of delegates. based on present evidence, is it wise for me to take your wager seriously? >> well, again, you cannot win the nomination unless you get the 1144 delegates. he will not have the 1144 delegates. i believe that newt as he said all along, if he believed that rick santorum and mitt romney and previously anybody else for that matter could, in fact, beat barack obama and change washington, that he would have gladly stepped aside and let that person run and endorse them. but nobody like that has emerged. neither mitt romney, he has no ability to beat barack obama. if newt got out, away, mitt romney would crush rick santorum. santorum's only hope is to get a

nomination to go to a brokered convention. >> mr. tyler, surely if mr. gingrich got out, then those people who would have voted for him are likely to go to mr. santorum. that's not going to mean that romney crushes santorum. that's going to make it a much more difficult fight for mr. romney. >> no. that's the same argument. >> let me quote activist keith apell. he said santorum has and i'm quoting earned the opportunity to take on romney in a two-man race. if gingrich really wants to des em bowel romney the best way surely is to allow santorum to go in for an uninterrupted head to head collision, fight it out. surely that's better. >> which he will lose and mitt romney would be the nominee going into tampa. you're making this analysis on a static basis that nothing in the world changed. this campaign has been nothing but dynamic. all the empirical evidence points to that.

we don't know what's going to happen. mitt romney will not be the nominee and will not arrive in tampa with the right amount of dels. my guess is he'll be tossed aside after the first vote. >> you know mr. gingrich better than any of us. it's hard for us to get inside the great man's mind. is this really about his anger at what the house and indeetd republicans did to him in 1997 when he was ordered to pay that unprecedented fine of $300,000 and where the house voted 395 to just 28 in favor of him being reprimanded as speaker? is this how he wants to get his revenge by getting to tampa and actually getting is the opportunity to speak at the convention even if it damages the nomination process? >> well, that would be a great story if it was true. first of all, newt wasn't fined $300,000. the committee needed to do something because they spent $300,000 on the investigation. >> sorry, he paid $300,000 and.

>> he paid the committee to reimburse the committee. >> and he was reprimanded by the house. >> he was found innocent by the a federal judge and by the irs. >> i thought he was found guilty of ethics issues. >> no, sir, 84 out of 84 charges he was dismissed on all 84 charges. >> to my point, is this about mr. gingrich wanting his revenge for what happened to him in the '90s? he wants to own the podium one last time at the convention, doesn't he? >> and that would be a great moment but that's not the reason. >> it would be. >> the reason is newt gingrich has worked on the republican party for 30 years. and he has brought the republican party briefly to a governing majority and did he so by making a conservative he party which led to a balanced budgets, $405 billion worth of debt paid off and he reformed welfare, the only entitlement reform done in our lifetime.

take all that and we're going to hand this over to mitt romney who was pro-choice and governed as such who raised taxes 47th in job creation? i don't think so. i don't think this party is ready to be handed this over all the mitt romney. we have a party that represents the government interests called the democratic party. this is the republican party. let's just fight it out. >> mr. tyler, thank you very much. by the way, just for the sake of accuracy, that was mitt romney's position. it's changed since then. thank you, sir. next, the president and the prime minister. stay with us. >> i andm a little embarrassed i stand here to think that 200 years ago, my ancestors tried to burn this place down. everyone in america depends on the postal service.

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best of american ceremony. both the president and the prime minister took the opportunity to reiterate their commitment to the mission in afghanistan despite this week's rampage by a u.s. soldier that left 16 civilians is dead. >> i don't anticipate at this stage that we're going to be making any sudden additional changes to the plan that we currently have. >> we will not give up on this mission because afghanistan must never again be a safe haven for al qaeda to launch attacks against us. >> and there, too, was our own kristen welker who joins us now at the white house. kristin, amongst some warm-hearted jokes about the president improving his table tennis which of course they played when britain hosted last year there was serious talk of afghanistan. both leaders is appear to agree on the timetable of a 2014

withdrawal. is that right? >> that's absolutely right. they did oo agree saying that they were committed to that gradual withdrawal that would ultimately lead to handing over force or power to the afghanis in 2014. but what they also did today that was interesting, martin, they sort of reaffirmed the fact that we are in the process of handing it over power, in other words, this is the final phase. that was sort of the picture that they were painting, and they were painting it in some of the starkest terms that we have heard. the president even acknowledging that there is war fatigue. he understands that people are weary at this point, this war in its tenth year. they reaffirmed their commitment to withdraw troops by 2014, but also defended the mission saying that al qaeda is on its heels. and that the goal here is to ultimately hand over power to the afghanis and to have it be somewhat stable. >> right. the president said that they're

also fully united in opposing iran's pursuit of a nuclear weapon. he also said that the window is closing on iran's need to step back. did you detect the whiff of a threat there? >> well, it seemed to be some of the strongest language that we have heard is the president use to date in terms of talking about iran saying that the window for diplomacy is closing. he talked about the fact he has reached out to iranian leadership personally urging them to essentially reengage in talks over arms and the development of a nuclear weapon. so president obama is, prime minister cameron today saying we're running out of patience here. we will continue to give sanctions a chance but not forever. >> indeed in a state dinner to come this evening. kristin, thank you. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. >> rick santorum, you may be a nice guy or you may not be a nice guy. frankly, i don't care.

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from dixie rit it out mitt the soggy bot many boy and a touch of the donald. here are our top lines, you complete me. >> we did it again. >> senator santorum is at the desperate end of had his campaign. >> for someone who thinks this race is inevitable, he spent a whole lot of money against me. >> the elite media's effort to convince the nation that mitt romney is inevitable just collapsed. >> the time is now for conservatives to pull together. >> between santorum and myself, we will get over two-thirds of the delegates and the so-called front-runner will get less than one-third of the dels. >> maybe i'll be the cinderella this year. >> i'm going to tampa. when i was winning and he wasn't i wanted him out. he said no. i want to quote santorum, no. >> what state coming up do you

think you can win? >> i don't know yet. >> here now is newt gingrich campaigning in is the south. that's all you need to know. ♪ >> and missouri is next. >> how many here in this audience call it mizura, how many say miz-ur-r ke e like i do? >> shah we expect a huge win. >> i love that music. don't you love that bluegrass. >> how does a man named rick santorum lose his senate seat and then decide, now i think i'm going to run for president. >> my favorite movie is "o brother where art thou." >> vernon's got prospects. he's bona fide. what are you. >> a man of constant sorrows. >> i'm smart enough and doggone it, people like me. >> rick santorum, you may be a nice guy or you may not be a nice guy. frankly, i don't care. >> i like being able to fire people.

>> i'm not going to do what you all think i'm going to do which is just flip out. >> let's get right to our esteemed panel. james patterson is director of africana studies and professor of english at lehigh university and ken vogel is chief investigative reporter for politi politico. welcome to both of you. i want to start with the opinion piece in the "new york times" everyone's talking about. the top executive at goldman sachs resigning with a bit of jerry mcguire statement about the culture there. at one point he writes over the last 12 months i have seen five different managing directors refer to their own clients at muppets, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the junior analyst sitting quietly in the corner of the room hearing about muppets, ripping eyeballs out and getting paid doesn't exactly turn into a model citizen. dr. peterson, these model

citizens at goldman sachs are some of mitt romney's largest benefactors. in this election, he's raised something like half a million dollars already for mitt himself. isn't it perhaps time mitt romney write an op-ed why he's leaving goldman sachs? >> you're not going to see that will from mr. romney, that's for sure. this op-ed is a sort of sad testament to the ways in which the 1% and the ways in which business as usual continues to be conducted both on wall street and in washington, d.c. i mean, the bottom line here is, we need a better code of ethics for those folk working in places like goldman sachs in order to overcome some of the financial woes we're faced with right now. >> ken vogel, some of the comments in this editorial are devastating. the culture used to be vital. there was integrity, humility and teamwork. now that doesn't exist. there's been a decline in the moral fiber of this firm. they callusly rip off clients. i mean, this after all, is the world that mr. romney comes

from, isn't it? >> it is to some extent. he comes from the finance sector certainly, and this is a narrative that has hurt mitt romney or these connections to the finance sector have hurt him both because there is this movement on the left that's sort of embodied by the occupy movement and the 99 first versus the 1% but also on the right where the tea party has really raised red flags about big business being sort of in bed with big government. that's something that's hurt mitt romney. let's not forgetting that president obama as well during his 2008 campaign received a ton of money from goldman sachs. they were among his top contributors. >> although they've run away from the president this time around. >> that's true. >> there is this delicious irony today, ken, because mitt romney is at this very moment at the waldorf astoria here in new york probably i'm guessing but there are probably people from goldman sachs chucking money into his satchel and here we have this

op-ed today in the "new york times." it's amazingly coincidental. >> that's right. >> it's not just limited to goldman sachs. >> sorry, dr. peterson. >> and it's not just limited -- this is what citizens united is all about, the ability or capacity for small group of people really, really wealthy to have undue influence over the political process of the united states. and so as goldman sachs but also people who make that kind of money and you look at the attitude reflected in na op-ed, just imagine that involved in our political processes and then you can understand why citizens united is such a destory minutal decision for american politics. >> also, dr. peterson it's becoming increasingly clear why people were sold hopeless mortgages when they realize someone working at a place like goldman sachs, that's supposed to be the blue chip firm, they were laughing callusly as these arrangements and arrangements. they didn't care at all about the clients. >> they're disconnected from

main street, disconnected from the real pain of someone losing their house. that's the problem. that's what i mean by code of ethics. you've got to have people who are leaders in these firms who can touch hands with people who feel the pain of our economic woes. we start to do that kind of work, we'll continue to have in this bad behavior in the wall street processes. >> ken, this is no laughing matter for the white house because a mailer overnight has been issued asking for a $3 donation to beat mitt romney saying this race is closer than you think and mitt romney will "spend and say anything to window." the white house is right, aren't they? >> they'll certainly spend anything to win. we've seen quite a lot of that already. >> ken, and he also says anything to win. come on. he's hardly the most consistent person in politics, is he? >> you know, the number of people in the conservative base would agree with you. th's one of the reasons why romney has had trouble connecting in the sense that he has sort of shifted his

political positions over time to comport with the zeitgeist of the times and right now, clearly that requires him to appeal to conservative voters in these primaries that he is having trouble with. and he is helped, however, by this big money and that is going to be a challenge for president obama as this fund-raising e-mail made clear, president obama who once set his sights on the $1 billion campaign, his allies did has lowered the bar a little bit and is working aggressively to raise super pac money to be able to compete with mitt romney because if he emerges with the nomination which i think is still very likely although not a sure thing, he is going to be able to raise a ton of money. to a super pac to be able to go after president obama. >> dr. peterson, ken's right, isn't he? the white house does have to get its act into gear because mitt romney is loaded. he is loaded with cash. >> he's loaded and remember, his friends are in the 1%. mr. obama's not so much. but the white house will be raising money in a different

way. they'll be more grassroots oriented, smaller donations. they need the super pac money to try to keep pace. ken is also right they're realizing these super pacs have tipped the balance in the terms the way politics works. unfortunately, the obama administration will have to rely on some super pacs. they're going to have a lot more grass-roots money than mitt romney will. >> thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you, martin. next, mitt proposes to cut his way out of recession. it's not working too well in britain. i can tell you that. stay with us. >> that's a commitment that no more increases in the nation's debt ceiling if you're president? >> any increases in the debt ceiling are going to have to be accompanied by compensating cuts in federal spending and making sure that we get ourselves on track to have a balanced budget. [ male announcer ] for the saver, and a big first step.

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they're gr-r-eat! >> just a couple of hours ago, the president formal little welcomed british prime minister david cameron to the white house. and while both leaders spoke of the benefits of this historic alliance, when it comes to their respective economic policies, well, the two leaders could not be further apart. it the president has saw the to the stimulate the economy while in britain, there's been an unrelenting focus on austerity. >> the united states and great britain are two different economies in two different positions. >> it would be wrong to think that britain is just taking measures to reduce its deficit. we're also taking a series of measures to help promote growth. >> richard wolffe is an msnbc political analyst and the author of "reivl the struggle for survival inside the obama white house." and his knowledge of all things

british is about as wide as newt gingrich's ego. >> thank you much. >> given that speaker boehner, eric cantor and all the republican candidates would favor the british approach, it is instructive to consider the effect thus far, britain's growth over the laurt quarter of 2011, zero, consumer confidence is now so low it can barely be calculated. and yet the president gets attacked for his attempt to stimulate the economy. >> yeah, and just compare that fourth quarter growth which is slightly negative i think which means it wasn't growing at all in the uk, compare that growth with what we're seeing here in america, fourth quarter growth just got revised upwards, was around 3% at the end of last year. so unemployment now is higher in the uk than it is here. even though it's still too high here. and yes, you're looking at a very, very significant gap idea logically in terms of their economic approaches between the prime minister and the president. there are all sorts of reasons,

you can argue there are different points in the cycle, yes, america is a reserve currency. but is the conservative government in london, as you know, came into power saying we're going to cut. this is their big difference from their labor predecessors, the left of center predecessors. this president has taken a very different approach. if you look at growth and jobs, there is a marked difference between these twos economies. >> this is bizarre. the very people who accuse the president of the united states, wanting to transform america into a socialist europe are the same people ho support the policies that are failing abjectly in europe. >> yeah, you've got to wonder what they understand by things like socialism and european politics because mostly now in france, germany and the uk, you have right of center governments, now they may be of slightly different hues but that's really where they're headed. if it weren't for the massive job losses we're seeing in the public sector in the u.s., job

growth would be even higher. so if jobs are the priority spoosed to shrinking government, you end up at a very different scenario from the unwithes that someone like romney or newt gingrich are trying to advocate right now. >> here's what the editor of the spectator wrote about the the prime minister's austerity measures which. "cameron is increasing britain's national debt far more than obama is increasing america's but he's doing it with elan, while talking endless lili about tough decisions, herein lies a simple lesson for the president. bang on. austerity for long enough and you can get away with almost anything. no one really checks the figures." >> you know, there are a couple of things to point out about this. yes, but david cameron talks a very good game. the question for the british officials, the economists, the people on the right here who argue the brits are doing the right thing is that if you cut

government spending the way cameron has done, then the financial markets reward you with lower borrowing costs. that's the essence of their argument. if you have lower borrowing costs, the economy will grow. over here we haven't had the same measures and mortgage rates, long-term borrowing is lower than ever before. the bond markets have been rewarding america for going for growth and talking this this good game about cutting but you can actually have growth and deal with a longer term scenario. that's what they've been trying to do in the white house if you look at the ultimate judgment these people say, the ultimate judgment of the financial markets is perk's on the right track. >> absolutely. richard wolffe as ever, thank you. i'm sorry for equating your knowledge with newt gingrich's ego at the beginning. >> i will get you back, martin. >> thank you, sir. thank you so much, rich. today actor and activist george clooney is testifying before the senate foreign relations committee concerning his experience in war ravaged sudan. tonight, mr. clooney joins mr. matthews as a special guest

on "hardball," that's 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. next, from america's special relationship with the uk to mitt's special relationship with goldman sachs. but first, tyler mathisen has the cnbc market wrap. good afternoon. >> thank you very much. let's take a look at how stocks are doing. not doing very much in all truth. the dow is a little bit higher by 12 points but the s&p and the nasdaq basically treading water. the nasdaq though remaining above 3,000 and dow above 13,000. a little bit of breathing spell today on wall street. that's it from cnbc. stay tuned for more with martin after this. [ male announcer ] what if you had thermal night-vision goggles,

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a searing indictment of mitt romney's good friends at goldman sachs couldn't have come at a worse time for willard. greg smith pulls no punches in his resignation op-ed today lambasting his former employer for putting profit as head of clients and their own moral and ethical obligations. however, he might as well have been talking about their man mitt when he writes, it astounds me how little senior management gets a basic truth: if clients don't trust you they will eventually stop doing business with you. it doesn't matter how smart you are. joining us now is democratic congressman peter welsh of vermont who sits on the committee on oversight and government reform. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. >> let me read to you a part of what goldman sachs's ceo wrote, workers there in reply to this op-ed. while i expect you find the words you read today foreign from your own day to day experiences, we wanted to remind you that we, as a firm -- individually and collectively --

think about goldman sachs and our client-driven culture. foreign from your own day to day experiences. you can't get a much more dismissive reply than that, can you? i mean he's not addressing anything like the moral and ethical failings that mr. smith discovered over ten years at that investment bank. >> well, that's right. you know, we need a strong financial sector. but the financial sector has to be in service of the productive economy. and what wall street and goldman sachs did is turn the productive economy and service to their profits. in goldman sachs, i mean the best example of where they just went totally haywire is when they put together a package of toxic securities at the request of one client and then they got on the rolodex and called up other clients and sold them. these are pension funds, by the way. they sold them as aaa rated guaranteed lock cinch positive

investment results. so they were lerally pitting the interest of two clients against each other and making money coming and going. >> are you referring to the senator's use of the word shitty which was contained in an e-mail that they discovered when they had a hearing with members of goldman sachs? >> that would be the word. >> yes. thank you. >> but it is amazing. they literally went both sides against the middle and made money coming and going. >> yeah, apologize for using that word. it was, of course in, that e-mail. it's not a word i would choose to use. according to the center for responsive politics, individuals who work at goldman sachs have contributed seven times as much to mitt's campaign as to the president's this cycle. what do they see in a romney administration that mississippi and alabama voters, for example, didn't see yesterday? >> well, they say hands off wall

street and they still get to read the rules and make money at the expense of everybody else. let me give you an example. we're having a fight in congress right now to implement the dodd/frank rules about the futures market, the speculation in the futures market. the futures market was for end users. it would be like airlines or fuel delivery dealers, 80% users and 80% traders. wall street flipped that. it's like 80% traders and speculatorsme speculators. a report shows that $23 on a $100 barrel of oil translate into 56 krebts on the price of a gallon of gas. >> as you know, mr. welsh, newt gingrich with dissolve dodd/frank overnight if he were elected president. >> and goldman sachs -- the goldman sachs folks would be quite happy to see that happen. and it is obviously a benefit to them if they have that happen. that's $15 on the price of filling up your tank if you have

a pickup truck. so goldman sachs's got a lot at stake basically to go back to the future which is what got us in this so much trouble. the bottom line here -- >> but let's be fair, mr. welsh, you and i know that democrats have already received money over the years from goldman sachs, indeed the president's 2008 campaign was not shy whether it came to receiving donations from that very bank. >> you are absolutely right. in fact, democrats played a significant role and it was under bill clinton that we got rid of glass stiegel. we broke down the walls between investment banks and commercial banks. so, yes, democrats were complicit in this. and we've got to do better ourselves. but bottom line, what we have to incent is the model of main street banks where their relationship to their clients is one of partners and advisors rather than predators. >> indeed. congressman peter welsh, thank

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