oh, says i'm pregnant and craving gummy bears. >> my wife was chocolate milk shakes. good call. >> i've got lizzy said i'm up editing photos for my critique tomorrow at san jose state. >> sounds like we should do some transferring. before we go, an important critical birthday wish for our good friend gonzo. do we give the age? do we give the age? >> it's on the full screen. >> oh, it's on the full screen. john gonzalez. he's been with nbc since day one, he's been with "morning joe" since day one. he is a lifer and today he's 55. happy birthday, gonzo, "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ the alabama and mississippi primaries were last night, and the stakes for romney were high. or as mitt would say, just the right height. because if he won either state,

he could dispel doubts about his appeal to conservatives and i would have to start loving him. which, of course, i do as long as i have no other choice. >> rick santorum surprise in the south wins the alabama and mississippi primaries. >> it means a long, slow painful slog to this nomination. >> long, slow, and painful, thank you, jesus! rick santorum is resinating with voters because of his authenticity. he always speaks off the cuff, which is why his sweaters don't have sleeves. and santorum believes authenticity should be legally mandated. >> it should be illegal to read off a teleprompter. >> i never use a teleprompter. i just try to say the same thing as this guy right here in the monitor. okay. i just follow his leaderships, okay. and while he talks, i try to say what he's talking -- he goes pretty fast, but i can usually

keep up with him, and sometimes we fight to see who goes first and boy he seems angry right now and i'm angry too. >> it is the top of the hour. good morning. welcome to "morning joe" on this thursday. it's march 15th. with uz onset, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle here on time, dressed. chairman of deutsch incorporated, donny deutsch, and the president on the council of foreign relations richard haass, good to have you onboard this morning given all the news. and a lot to get to. apparently there was another awkward interview with mitt romney. was it awkward? >> no. i don't know that it was awkward. he was challenged on why he keeps talking about being wealthy. >> on being awkward. >> on being a little awkward. he got his back up a little bit. >> we'll talk about that. we'll take a look at it. and that director from goldman who stepped down. there's fallout from that we'll get to. but let's get right to foreign

news. u.s. officials say a man who crashed a stolen pickup at a military airport in afghanistan yesterday was trying to kill marines gathered to meet leon panetta. the truck crashed near the runway moments before panetta's plane was due to land. officials say the driver who emerged from the truck on fire died today from his injuries. the security breach underscores renewed tensions in the country four days after an american staff sergeant allegedly killed 16 afghan civilians. secretary panetta addressed that shooting incident yesterday while meeting with u.s. troops. >> we will not allow individual incidents to undermine our resolve to that mission and to sticking to the strategy that we've put in place. we will be tested, we will be challenged. we'll be challenged by our en y enemy, we'll be challenged by

ourselves, we'll be challenged by the hell of war itself. but none of that, none of that must ever deter us from the mission that we must achieve. >> in an unusual move, u.s. marines gathered to hear mr. panetta were told to leave their weapons outside. the "new york times" interview says someone's got itchy, that's all i've got to say. someone got itchy. the general who gave the order later said the decision had nothing to do with the shooting spree over the weekend. the pentagon, meanwhile, is trying to work out where the american soldier will be tried for those must remembrders. for now he's been moved to a detention center in kuwait. but afghan officials are demanding the trial take place inside afghanistan. before we get to polls on this on our mission there. a couple of questions. first the decision to remove the weapons, a sign of what, richard

haass? >> nervousness, both a symbol and a reality. it doesn't question the fundamentals of what we're doing there which deserve to be questioned, but it's another sign just on a day-to-day level, the requisite level of trust is disappearing. >> bigger picture, though, obviously everyone is horrified about what's happened by the massacre. morale for the troops, it's got to be difficult. how did panetta do? >> he did okay, but you can't do better than okay. it's not a criticism of leon panetta, it's the policy. it's not working. the whole idea is to build up the afghan government, that's going much more poorly than expected. you still have a sanctuary for the taliban. at the end of the day, it's hard to imagine this investment of blood and treasure is going to pay off in enduring gains. we have to get down to a much smaller -- i think the question is how fast do we get down?

what is the size of the so-called residual force? and can you sustain a residual force in afghanistan given that neither side trusts the other? >> let's look at the big picture. "usa today" gallup poll shows 50% of americans want to speed up the withdrawal from afghanistan, 21% say the u.s. should stay for as long as it takes to accomplish the mission. speaking alongside british prime minister david cameron at the white house, president obama said the recent events there not lead to a sudden pullout of american troops. >> in terms of pace, i don't anticipate at this stage that we're going to be making any sudden additional changes to the plan that we currently have. >> richard, take our viewers behind the scenes on this. what kind of discussions are happening at the highest levels of our government about expediting the process of

leaving afghanistan? we're already supposed to leave at the end of 2014. how much quicker can we reasonably get out of the country? >> right now we're about 90,000 troops, we're due to get down to just under 70,000 by september. so the real question is how do we go from 70,000 say to 20,000 or 15,000? do we do that over two years? over 12 months, that's the discussion. the vice president and others want to compress the timetable. bottom line is, i don't think either timetable is going to work if by work you mean an afghanistan that will be self-sufficient and be able to stand up and be a functioning quality sort of country that's going to be safe and stable. i think the fundamentals don't work. so we can argue all we want about timetables. i don't believe at the end of the day in five to seven years, will we have something to really show for this investment? i would say no regardless of the timetable. >> you wonder if military leadership the president or anybody else believes their own rhetoric on this where they say

we've got to stay so that the taliban doesn't come back so that al qaeda doesn't come back in the country. as richard says, that could go on for eternity. >> well, i think that's probably a lot of wishful thinking in the rhetoric that hour leaders employ about this. but with regard to removing 90,000 troops from a hostile environment, you're not going to be able to do it overnight. to take 90,000 troops out of the theatre of war is going to require at a minimum, at a minimum of 12 months because there's an element called force protection. and when you remove troops, you have to make sure you have enough troops around the troops being removed to protect the troops that are there. there's no way to get 90,000 troops in a month or two months or three months. >> you're exactly right. it takes time. the bigger question, though, we are supposed to keep forces there as we remove our combat role to advise and train the afghans. >> that's a joke. >> advising and training means afghan and american units living together, training together,

working together with guns. and right now it's not clear that either side really has the basic level of trust to work with the other. so the whole basic mission, i think now has a question mark on it. >> well, it gets to definition of mission. what is the definition of mission? >> speaking of which, rich, i don't know if you can answer this. we say 90,000. those are 90,000 young people. does the average soldier -- are they in a situation -- i'm fighting for my country and the blinders are there. or do a lot of them on some level say what am i doing here? they don't have a clear answer of why they're there in a war like this? >> in my experience visiting troops in the field, most people who are serving don't spend a lot of time asking that question. what they really care about is their own survival, the survival of the guy next to him. it's that kind of solidarity, doing the mission you were asked to give. there's an incredible culture

and discipline of service that obviously people want to get through it. they want to survive. that's the level you live on rather than debating geopolitics like we might debate around this table. they've got a day-to-day reality. they can't change the policy. what they can do is implement it and keep themselves alive and the guy next to them alive. >> it's great to have you on. my dad's coming on and i believe david ignatius. today marks the one-year anniversary of the syrian uprising where an estimated 8,000 people have been killed trying to stamp out the rebellion there. reports of new violence are coming in from around the country today, including near damascus where activists say explosions and gunfire could be heard earlier this morning. further south, opposition fighters say over 100 government tanks descended on the birthplace of the revolution. yesterday, president obama defended his decision not to intervene in syria. >> in terms of pace, i don't

anticipate at this stage that we're going to be making any -- sudden additional changes to the plan that we currently have. >> britain's "guardian" newspaper is reporting that thousands of e-mails taken from president assad's personal account suggest his regime is getting advice from iran. the paper says the messages reportedly intercepted by members of the opposition also show assad mocking the reforms he'd promised. meanwhile assad's wife was apparently spending thousands of dollars on the internet for designer goods including diamond necklaces while food and medicine for civilians remain in short supply. richard, i mean, obviously it's sick with the wife. but the connection with iran. how would you characterize the connection? >> there's all sorts of evidence that iranians are providing

advice and maybe more than advice to this regime and strategically one of the rationales is to deal iran a strategic setback in the region. but these e-mails show something else. they show on one hand how isolated this leadership is. on the other hand, how cruel and brutal they are. truly brutal. and what it is, this is a minority regime. this is winner-take-all and loser lose all. this is a fight to the finish. so any hope of negotiating this, ain't gonna happen. this is going to end. these guys are going to survive until the day they disappear. this is all or nothing. >> what does the international community do in the interim, though? because every morning when i come in here, there's another story that the government tanks have rolled into another town, wiped it out, killed people, killed journalists, leveled the buildings. how much longer can the international community watch this day in, day out? this could go on -- >> could go on for a while. the problem is, most of the ideas of military intervention don't hold up to scrutiny. this is a densely populated

country, real military. this is not libya. they have a real air force and a real army. you want to take them out militarily, you're going to war. arming the opposition is a problem because the opposition is not a singular organized entity. it's multiple gangs, tough to work with them. i would say right now you want to focus on upping the sanctions and beginning to create a political alternative. you want to encourage defections from the regime. you want to get a bunch of people out there saying we're the alternativist government, all syrians have a place here regardless of your religion. we want to begin to get people to defect from the regime. i'm not sure at the moment the military path to oust the regime is as good as the political and economic path. >> we're going to move to politics. mitt romney, is this the awkward interview? kind of? >> not too awkward. see what you think. >> we'll get back to foreign policy throughout the show because there's so much going on. i do love that we can spend 15 minutes at 6:00 in the morning -- >> i bet the people watching love it too. >> i hope so.

mitt romney is looking to reassure top donors he'll be able to grind out victory in the republican race for the presidency. the former massachusetts governor hopped off the campaign trail yesterday to raise funds in new york city. he told supporters that despite back-to-back losses in the south on tuesday, he still has a commanding lead in delegates. it's the math. in an interview yesterday, romney was asked whether those losses underscores a perception that conservatives would prefer someone else to win the party's nomination. >> they have to go back and look at some other states that are actually kind of important. let's say florida, for instance, where i won and michigan and ohio and nevada and new hampshire. the list goes on. last night, by the way, they're forgetting there are a couple of other contests, hawaii, where i won. and last night i got more delegates than anybody else. this is a process of becoming the nominee. we're pursuing that in an intelligent way. and conservatives when you ask in the prior elections, who as conservatives did you vote? i won the conservative vote.

some who are very conservative may not be in my camp, but they will be when i make nominee. >> you've been making gaffes, governor. people ask you about football and you talk about how you know the nfl owners. they talk about nascar, how you know some racing owners. talk about ann's two cadillacs and people say he's so rich he can't relate to the rest of us. why do you keep doing that? >> megan, guess what, i made a lot of money. i've been very successful. i'm not going to apologize for that. >> that's the answer people have been asking him to give. are we going to criticize him now for giving the answer everyone said? own it. >> he's always on defense. he's always playing defense. you know, just if you watch the question and watch his tone, he's never leaning forward and he's got to start to go on the offense. you're smirking at me in that loving way you so do. >> we were talking yesterday about part of his problem is that the traveling press corps with him, they don't like him.

they have very limited access to him. so everything he says about, you know, hey, i know woody johnson or whatever, they're going to blow it up and make it larger than what it is. santorum and gingrich have had as many gaffes and they fly around the radar. >> it's the 1% gaffe that people have a problem with it. because they're worried he doesn't care about the rest. >> you know the owners of the red sox. >> i do. i -- does that make me bad? >> that's the point. >> i'm not running for president. >> jfk, when he got elected for president his father was the fifth wealthiest man in the country. it's not a question of rich, it's a question of -- >> there's an interesting point. they addressed that, you know, with humor. in west virginia, his father didn't want to pay, you know, for a landslide. he wanted to pay for a win. you know? >> ladies and gentlemen, the comedy stylings of mike barnicle. there are wealthy people that people connect to. he just is a human being. >> i just want to know -- i want

to hear him talking about his message. i want him to ignore all this, it's ridiculous. >> so what did you think of that clip that we just showed? >> well, i didn't think it was that awkward, i think he could've taken it and said i've got a message and gone on with it and not tried to answer it. finishing off romney's interview, apparently he was cut off a little bit. take a look. >> this thing -- if you want to try -- >> ten seconds. >> the answer is i believe we should get rid of obama care, it's a disaster, it's going to cost $1 trillion plus. >> got it. thank you, sir. we'll be right back. >> hard break. hard break. what are you going to do? >> wow. okay. can we have a shot of our control room. because apparently what was happening in that control room. can we have a shot of our control room. maybe not. tower? were you looking for the button? those people, hi, guys, cute, there's tim. we don't listen to them. right.

we just stay on with an interview. if we have a presidential candidate -- >> we just go. we don't need advertiser on this show, do we? >> what are you talking about? >> we don't need starbucks. >> no, no, no, no -- >> why was he cut off so terribly? >> i don't know. it must have been a hard break. we have those too, but we don't pay attention. >> who would listen to that when you have a good interview going? >> a presidential candidate, i think you let them go. >> exactly. that was rude. that's not his fault. was that supposed to play mitt being awkward, as well? >> i wonder if they explained it when they came back. >> they're treating him terribly. >> i wonder if they explained it. >> honest answer from everybody. the night before the primaries, were you all rooting for santorum? not because you like santorum, but even as -- >> no, actually -- >> it just -- and i keep coming back because we want to -- nobody wants to see this guy win. it's just not there. >> i don't root for anybody. >> you guys are haters. >> are you a mean person, donny?

>> no, i'm the guy going, yo, go team. >> you're a big santorum guy. >> no, no, no, i respect him as a human being, disagree with everything he says, but there's blood flowing through those veins. you've got to give him that. >> coming up, we'll talk to dr. brzezinski, also "washington post" columnist david ignatius. and digger phelps and adrien brody will be here. plus rod blagojevich takes part in one last media circus before heading to prison. >> awful. >> yeah. >> 14 years. please. >> please. >> no, i -- i'm not going to argue this. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? good morning, mika. yesterday around the country, a near record or record heat continue in so many areas. we have changes this morning, especially in areas of new england. from new york city northward,

today's a lot different. storm system up through maine dumped some snow, sending a cold shot of air southward. it's only going to make it as far south as philly. and we'll have to watch out for showers and thunderstorms this morning. they're rolling across the state of ohio. they're moving slow too. right now they're in between columbus and pittsburgh. and the pittsburgh area, you could deal with them. couple hours from now. so the forecast for today, notice the difference in temperature. d.c. could be 83 while boston's 43. a 40-degree temperature swing along i-95 today. so you get the idea, that's where some areas will be cooler, nice beautiful warm day in the carolinas also in the southeast. isolated chance of a thunderstorm in chicago late today, but most of the day will be dry and beautiful. and looks like we're going to see the warm air ever so slowly returning to the east, but heads up for friday. scattered showers and storms even for areas along i-95, maybe minor airport delays. but washington, d.c., you could be in the low 80s today. jefferson memorial looking nice. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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that's why she's the boss. because the small business with the best technology rules. contact the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 1-800-974-6006. ♪ why won't gingrich quit? because if you think about it he's actually kind of winning. >> the fact is in both states, the conservative candidate's got nearly 70% of the vote. between santorum and myself, we will get over 2/3 of the delegates and the so-called front-runner will get less than 1/3 of the delegates. >> but you don't get to add santorum's stuff to yours to make it sound impressive. it means that, you know, between me and lebron james last night, we scored 36 points. that's not your total! you know if you add romney's

delegates to mine, i've actually won. >> 25 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the "chicago tribun tribune". rod blagojevich is due at a chicago prison to begin serving a 14-year sentence on corruption charges. in what was probably his final media frenzy, though you never know if it's his final media frenzy, blago spoke yesterday timing his comments to begin exactly at 5:02 p.m., just in time, coincidence, for the evening news to carry it live. >> i believe i always, always thought about what was right for the people, and i am proud as i leave, i am proud as i leave and enter the next part of what is a dark and hard journey that i can take with me the sense of accomplishment and the real belief that the things that i did as governor and the things i did in congress have actually helped real, ordinary people.

>> like he shouldn't have done what he did. but 14 years. >> that is so over the top. you know, you can plead guilty to manslaughter -- >> you wouldn't get close to that. >> you wouldn't get 14 years. that sentence is so over the top. >> i think he mocked the system. >> you get five to seven. come on, 14 years. >> what do you think when you watch him? clearly there's some type of personality disorder. >> very unself-aware. >> ego maniac like many politicians, i suspect. but that doesn't mean he should go to jail for a decade and a half for corruption. from our parade of papers, the augusta chronicle says residents of georgia do more financial damage by buying lottery tickets compared to all other states according to bloomberg's sucker index they call it which measures this kind of thing. found the peach state residents spend on average about 1% of their annual income on the lottery. >> oh, my goodness.

>> wow. >> wow. >> suckers. >> mama needs a new pair of shoes. and from the "new york times," the new jersey man who cheated his co-workers out of a lottery office pool has been ordered to hand over their share of the jackpot. the man purchased the winning ticket three years ago. but forgot to mention the $24 million jackpot to his five co-workers. instead, he quit his job saying he needed foot surgery. >> and that has been your "morning joe" lottery update. >> that is. >> today's power ball -- >> donny's going to pull the ball -- >> what's left for news you can't use? >> he needed foot surgery. >> $38 million, you had foot surgery lately? it's getting expensive. the chief white house correspondent for mike allen with a look at the playbook. hello, mike. >> good morning, guys. >> you were talking about rick santorum campaigning yesterday in puerto rico and courting the latino vote. let's listen. >> i think you will see as a

president santorum someone who will take the responsibility of representing all americans very, very seriously. >> i was referred to by many in my state as -- >> there you go. politico, you guys are reporting about mitt romney and the latino vote. we saw those polls from fox news, devastating to republicans, something like 14% support trailing the president by 56 points. how do they change that? >> yeah, well, that's one of the biggest worries in washington among top republicans about the romney campaign. they're a lot less worried about whether he's perceived as ritchie rich or whether he's awkward than this very fundamental problem from the party. we're told that that number needs to be around more like 33% of latinos. twice what governor romney polled or not polled for the party to be in the mix in the general election. states like florida, nevada,

colorado, arizona, latino vote so important in all of those. senator john cornyn in texas who is ahead of the senate campaign committee telling the romney campaign, you've got to fix this. lindsey graham of south carolina saying these positions are suicidal for the party. so a lot of concern now that weakness of romney among latinos is going to filter down and hurt senate and house candidates. i think you're going to see the romney campaign pulling back on the rhetoric and what they're counting on is the fact that nominees get a second look after they sort of clinch the nomination. so there's a lot of people specifically independents who will decide the election who aren't really paying attention now. governor romney's going to get a second chance for first impression with them. that's now clearly very vital to him. >> mike, romney keeps doing the math and saying i'm going to get the delegates. i want to do some other math. if you basically look at the latino gap and the gender gap,

it's an impossibility for republicans to get elected. what are these guys doing about that? >> no, i agree with that totally. if the latino -- until the latino problem is fixed, there will not be another republican president. it's a simple fact. you can't do it in every cycle. it gets worse. so with the romney campaign hopes and believes is that after they can put this thing away that they'll begin to talk to more of the electorate. people in washington are worried that clock is really ticking. and by the way, elevator chatter from today's playbook, we think that the day that mitt romney could put this away is april 24th, the romney folks think that if he could beat rick santorum in his home state of pennsylvania, you also have new york, a good romney state that day. circle april 24th, maybe that will finally be the day that we thought this thing was over. >> that's a tough win, though, for romney. santorum's leading polls in his home state right now. mike allen, thanks so much for a

look inside the playbook. coming up, president obama, who he has winning the bracket in the ncaa tournament while his guests, british prime minister david cameron tells michelle obama all about his guys' night out with the president. sports is next. [ woman ] dear cat, your hair mixes with pollen and dust.

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all right. it's time for some sports. with the knicks mired in a six-game losing streak and the thrill of lin-sanity feeling like a lifetime ago. the buzz in new york was carmelo anthony wanted out. as it turns out, though, d'antoni is the one leaving town. d'antoni resigned yesterday after three plus seasons with the knicks. he shocked his players and his coaches. probably not so much owner james dolan. >> today we have mutually agreed with mike d'antoni that he will no longer coach the knicks. this was not an event that was planned really in any way. just happened this morning. we had a very honest discussion. he clearly felt that it was best for the organization if he were

to not continue as the coach of the team. >> d'antoni became the knicks' head coach in 2008 signing a four-year $24 million deal that made him one of the highest paid coaches in the league. there's no word yet on who will permanently replace him. richard haass, you're a knicks fan, we know what happened. dolan was a carmelo guy, he was frustrated with carmelo, he chose anthony over d'antoni. >> the knicks never should've traded what they did to get carmelo. this has been a disaster every step of the way. and yet again one of the worst teams money can buy. >> it's good you came in, richard. >> don't you think he knows everything? don't you think the deal with the knicks they'll never be an excellent team until dolan sells the team. >> there's no excuse for 15 years of futility. >> if you simply put together a lot of the guys they've gotten rid of, that could be a contending team.

>> it's about chemistry. you felt it when carmelo, you felt a difference when he was gone and came back. everybody else upped their game. and it's so clear to everybody except dolan. he's a great public speaker. >> last night the knicks without d'antoni beat the blazers by 42 points. anyway, let's go to college basketball. march madness starts officially today. you had the play in games earlier this week. the real deal today 12:15 eastern time, colorado state and murray state. president obama, now, officially has chosen north carolina to win it all this year. the president picked kansas for the last couple of years to win it all. the jay hawks, though, bounced in the early rounds. the president chose in 2009 he chose north carolina to win the national title and they did. obama has kentucky, ohio state, and missouri joining carolina in the final four. it should be noted three of his four picks located in swing states. >> uh-huh. >> i preempt any dopey

republican who is going to say today with gas prices at $3.50, how is obama picking brackets in the ncaa -- >> of course they will. >> once again, it's going to happen today, i want to know who's first to say it. >> it happens every year. >> well, he did it on monday. >> is that right? >> mitt romney said he was not read in enough to make his choices. perhaps he will be today. president obama took david cameron to his first tournament game in dayton, ohio, cameron while giving a toast last night talked about his guys' night out. >> now, michelle, i'm sure that like sam you often wonder what happens when your husband goes for a night out with the guys. so maybe i should come clean about last night. we went to basketball and we had a real man-to-man chat. barack tried to confuse me by talking about bracketology, but i got my own back by running him

gently through the rules of cricket. >> we went to basketball. like we went to tea. >> he says it so clearly. >> he does. >> much more on the tournament which begins today with our man -- >> oh, yeah. >> espn's digger phelps is going to join us from connecticut in a little bit. i wouldn't miss that if i were you. >> no. >> we're going to talk more to richard haass about how to handle a worst-case scenario in iran. keep it on "morning joe." in america, we believe in a future

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live look at the white house as the sun has yet to come up over washington, d.c. welcome back to "morning joe" at 43 past the hour. time now for the must-read opinion pages and then we're going to get a primmer on iran with richard haass, but erick

erickson writes this about mitt romney saying not closing the deal is what it's called. the base doesn't like romney, but the base doesn't really like the other options either. at the same time, the base does not want this primary to end. the roller coaster continues. the one sure thing out of this is that though romney is not becoming a better candidate as the primaries continue, rick santorum sure is. as for newt, he's becoming less relevant. it is time for newt gingrich to exit. it is time for santorum versus romney and let the chips fall where they may. i still think romney is the nominee, but i think santorum versus romney one-on-one gives romney a run for his money. he needs to become a candidate conservatives can potentially rally around. donny deutsch and mike barnicle, would you two agree? >> couldn't agree more. and i think the greatest thing for this country is if santorum became the candidate because then we will see for several months, contrast. there's a fight for the soul of this country right now and

romney doesn't have a soul. he's in the middle. and to me, they just -- they buy it. they just ain't buying it. and everyone keeps saying de facto, he's going to get the nomination. i keep seeing the script, an open convention and a white knight coming in. i just -- everybody saying that can't happen. that can't happen. i see it that way. >> well, it appears that erick erickson might get his wish. illinois will basically be santorum versus romney. and i think from what i'm told, it's going to be a lot closer than a lot of people think that santorum has some strength in illinois. >> it's close now. it's 4%. >> romney, unfortunately, falls victim to his own bad self as they say. i mean the idea that he was going to win any southern state was preposterous in that field. but it gets set up, gee, he lost two states. he was never going to win those two states. in illinois you're going to have basically a one-on-one enterprise. santorum versus romney. >> the thing i'm hearing from

people is they're not getting a clear message on the economy, they're not getting a clear message on afghanistan. they've heard some messages on iran and fell flat on those. >> well, they made in retrospect perhaps a fatal error for themselves in the fall in that they went hard on contraception, on all the right-wing social issues. people are looking at the gas pump, $4.25, food goes up when gas goes up because it costs more to get the food into the stores. you're worried about your kids' college tuition or high school graduation or whatever and these people are talking about contraception? >> i know. >> the republicans, there's always a fork in the road for them. there are the social issues, which they will never win in a general election on. and then there's the economy. and to -- mike hit it on the head. >> thank you, donny, thank you. >> you're a handsome man, by the way. >> and conservatives even yesterday saying it's time to get behind one guy now.

whether it's rick santorum or newt gingrich, but more likely rick santorum. tony perkins, family research counselor says we've got to get behind one guy. let's take a turn here, richard, and talk about iran. it's been a week or so since we've been back there. where are we in the relationship with israel, iran, and us? >> the focus is on the iranian nuclear program, what they're doing there. and iran has amassed a stockpile of enriched material. normally the kind of stuff you'd put in reactors to generate electricity, some mid-level enriched uranium, which is getting closer to the stuff you'd use for weapons. we know they're doing some weapons design and experimentation. we don't know if they've actually made the strategic decision to build nuclear weapons. what we do know they've got a significant way down that road. >> are sanctions having an impact? >> sanctions are hurting the economy, but at the moment, they don't seem to be stopping the nuclear program in any way. >> what are the alternatives at

stake here? we've heard from the candidates as to what they think should happen. and the president stepped in and said, you know what? simmer down, i'm the president, you have no idea what you're talking about. >> there's three broad alternatives. one is to simply let this go forward and live with an iran that has nuclear weapons or something very close to it. and some people say we should do that, you could deter them, the way we did in the soviet union like we did in the cold war. the danger in that is if iran has nuclear weapons -- they become potentially much more aggressive in the region. that they could transfer nuclear material to groups like hezbollah or hamas. if iran would get nuclear weapons -- would stop with iran. if iran would get nuclear weapons, lots of other countries would, and that's got to anybody's definition of a nightmare.

one approach is to live with it. the second approach is to attack them, a so-called strike. what you could probably do is slow them down for a couple of years. the danger, though, they could retaliate. it could spread into the region. oil prices could go to $200 or $300 a barrel. so you end up with a third alternative. you don't want an iran with nuclear weapons, don't want yet another war in the middle east. the third alternative is a version of what we're doing. put the screws on them with the economic sanctions but negotiate a deal we could live with. and it's the beginnings, just the beginnings of what you might see is a negotiation. we don't know if it's going to work, if the iranians are united enough to agree to a negotiated position. but something where they would accept limits on their nuclear program that we could live with. for example, no high-enriched uranium that would make bombs, but they would have limited right to enrich. at the same time, what we would have are real inspections, not just the sites they acknowledge, but any site where we have

reason to believe they are doing nuclear-related research. the question is whether you can put together a deal that everyone can live with and whether you can put it together soon enough because meanwhile they continue to turn out enriched uranium. >> isn't the issue at the end of the day if you're forming a strategy on our end, how crazy is ahmadinejad? if you've got a guy -- >> for several reasons -- >> if you have a guy that is using this, obviously, to better their stance one thing versus a guy who is being completely driven by insanity. and those are two different plays. >> first reason, i don't think it's the right question. because he isn't the guy who controls iranian policy, it's the supreme leader. it's not ahmadinejad, his people are -- but can you live with it? maybe. but i don't think this whole concept of mutual assured destruction of living with a weapon in iranian hands translates well into hebrew.

i don't think quite honestly that netanyahu and the defense minister are comfortable or prepared to inflict this kind of damage on israel. and what the israelis are saying is time is running out for us to attack iran given what we know we can do and stop this program in its tracks. so i think that's their calculation. they have to decide, though, to attack soon or leave it up to us. and that's what -- that's the question for the israelis. do they essentially trust the united states to undertake what would effectively be yet another war of choice to go after iran where we would attack them to try to set back the program? and israel, this is as you might expect, the first in order debate. >> is there another level of sanctions we can impose? because we had netanyahu's former chief of staff on this show a couple weeks ago and he said what you're doing now is not enough. what the u.n. is doing now. what's the next level? and what would it mean? >> the sanctions the europeans signed on to, that would be to

isolate the iranian oil program, get the chinese and others to buy into it. but if they refuse to, why not militarily enforce sanctions? it's the kind of thing we did against iraq years ago after iraqis took kuwait. that's effectively going to war. there are things we can do economically to isolate iran. this is a cash crop economy. their crop is oil. and if we make it impossible for that oil to move and if people won't agree to do it voluntarily, we enforce it physically, yes, there are things we can do short of the kind of military strikes that people are talking about. >> still ahead, we're going to talk to former national security adviser doctor zbigniew brzezinski. we'll be right back with willie's news you can't use. ses walmart low price guarantee can help you out with that? ok! every week they lower thousands of prices and check over 30,000 competitor prices. check out that low price. you want to grab one? grab two. what happens if she does find a lower advertised price somewhere else? i'll match it right here. so what did you learn today? every dollar counts and now i get

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oh, yes. you've got to give us news you can't use. >> wow. okay. she needs it. she said it. she wants the news you can't use. >> it's time. >> she's begging. >> big state dinner. prime minister david cameron with his beautiful wife samantha. the night included performance by the prime minister's favorite band mumford and sons. john legend also great, george clooney was there, sir richard branson, our friend harvey weinstein, but most it was about the special relationship. watch how special things got last night. >> now i'm so grateful for all the time that david and i have had together.

♪ thank you for being a friend >> when we met two years ago, we exchanged beers from our hometowns. ♪ my heart is true >> one news story said david cameron and barack obama cemented their special relationship by hitting the bottle. when we had a barbecue at downing street for some of our service members, david and i rolled up our sleeves, threw away the aprons, and decided to flip the burgers ourselves. and when we got beat pretty badly in table tennis by local london kids, one newspaper asked the women's team to critique our performance. obama, the coach said, talked a lot. both of them, i'm quoting here, looked a little confused. >> truth is, we have to have a guys' night out because so often we find we are completely overshadowed by our beautiful wives.

barack, it is an honor to call you an ally, a partner, and a friend. ♪ thank you for being a friend >> it's a sitcom. >> it's adorable. >> all you need is mr. roper. >> season two of the special relationship thursday this fall on nbc. keep it on "morning joe."

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♪ live shot of capitol hill. pretty morning in washington, d.c. top of the hour, welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and donny deutsch are still with us. and i know, i'm being nice today, just because you gave me a compliment. >> i know chuck likes to talk fashion, your color. >> okay. >> three-piece suit with no tie. >> homage to mr. travolta. >> last time i saw him he was in like a lycra workout shirt. >> here i am -- boom, you smack me. movie's all over the charts. >> joining the table, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine john heilemann, and nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of the "daily

rundown," chuck todd. good to have you on the set. >> always good to be here. >> will you stay a while? >> i will. >> do you have anywhere to go? >> it's not that messy this morning. you know -- >> well, messy's not here. >> now, now. >> joe's not here. >> that was not meant to be a softball. >> let's go right to politics since we have chuck here at the top of the show. new numbers show how president obama stacks up in head-to-head match-ups. has obama tied with romney in a general election match-up. obama beats ron paul by five points, santorum by six points, and gingrich by 11 points. when it comes to favorability, polling from fox news puts the president's rating at 50%. 11 points higher than mitt romney and 15 points higher than santorum. their unfavorable marks are in the same ballpark. polling put the president's approval rating right around 48%. we also have new numbers on the state of the economy.

58% of those polled by fox news say they do see signs that the economy is turning around. that is up 29% from november. chuck, your take away from these polls? >> well, you just see that there is this incremental shift in the president's direction, in other words, a little bit of gyration. the power of the "new york times," their poll showed this basically opposite of what everybody else showed and i think it sort of got into the conversation probably too much so. and when you see all of this data that's come out, you see that every once in a while, there's an outlier, and it could that one was the outlier. but you do see this shift and it is all driven by the economy, and if it weren't for gas prices, it would probably be a little bit higher. >> why do i get the feeling that no matter what the numbers show now that by the time it's down to two people running for president, middle of october, it's going to be a three-point election. >> well, remember, a five-point election is a close race now is a landslide in november. so don't -- that's also another

thing to keep in mind when you look at the national number. the other thing i would be concerned about if i were republican is you still have both of their top two candidates upside down favorable ratings, and don't forget the obama campaign has yet to try to energize the democratic base as in trying to get them excited about the election. the very first event that is not a fundraiser that either obama or biden is happening today, toledo, ohio, joe biden is giving a speech. his first of a set of four speeches that the campaign -- it's a campaign speech, it's not tax dollar speech. to quote friend the election, he's going to talk about the auto bailout. and then you will see, i think, the enthusiasm go up on the democratic side. and that would concern me if i were republicans because right now they're having the entire conversation and it's hurting. >> well, what concerned me, and i don't know what i would do if i was a republican strategist, is the 20-point gender gap. i don't -- and you basically --

the dnc came out with an ad as far as romney, no planned parenthood. i don't know how you overcome a 20-point gender gap with women? i don't know where you go with that. >> well, we keep saying over and over again. there's the gender gap, there's the hispanic gap, which is actually much -- not much more important, but more -- long-term. and a short-term problem. i mean, right now all republicans and according to that fox poll last week are at 14% with hispanics. you cannot win a general election at 14% of the hispanic vote. you can't, it's not possible and the president's doing better with independents. those are three groups the republicans are in trouble with. those numbers head-to-head with mitt romney, they've expected this to be a really close race, and when it comes down to it in november. they don't expect to win this race the way they won in 2008. they expect it to be tight. >> is there a sense of cockiness that was not there four or five months ago. >> that's not the right word, confidence. a lot of confidence.

and surprise at how weak romney is. they never expected -- everything, their whole focus for the last year has been to try to ding up romney, hope he comes out of this process damaged. they couldn't have -- this is beyond their wildest dreams. >> and never expected romney to do this much damage to himself. they thought they could do a bunch of damage to him. >> they thought he was a good candidate. >> yeah. >> on paper he's a good candidate. >> and it turns out there were parts of him that looked like he had to the tools to be a good candidate four years ago. and i think they expected him, well, he'll be better than he was four years ago and he wasn't that bad four years ago. >> and in 2011 where most of the times when he was actually on stage was on debates and he debated really well -- the last six months, he was a dominant debater. debate after debate -- >> he was the big grown-up. >> the only one that looked like the president on the stage for those six months. it wasn't until things got hot in new hampshire and south carolina things started to go bad for him.

>> more news on mitt romney. looking to reassure top donors he'll be able to grind out victory in the republican race for the presidency. the former massachusetts governor hopped off the campaign trail yesterday to raise money in new york city. he told supporters that despite back-to-back losses in the south on tuesday, he still has a commanding lead in delegates. in an interview yesterday, romney was asked whether those losses underscore a perception that conservatives would prefer someone else to win the nomination. >> they have to go back and look at some other states that are actually kind of important. let's say florida, for instance, where i won, and michigan, and ohio, and nevada, and new hampshire. the list goes on. last night, by the way, they're forgetting there were a couple of other contests including hawaii where i won. and last night i got more delegates than anybody else. so this is a process of becoming the nominee, we're pursuing that in an intelligent way. and conservatives, when you ask in these prior elections who as conservatives did you vote? i won the conservative vote.

some who were very conservative may not be in my camp, but they will be when i become the nominee. >> you've been making gaffes, governor. you've been talking about -- people ask you about football and how you know the nfl owners. nascar, you talk about how you know some racing owners, talk about ann's two cadillacs and people say he can't relate. he's so rich, he can't relate to the rest of us. why do you keep doing that? >> megan, guess what? i made a lot of money. i've been very successful. i'm not going to apologize for that. >> he gets chastised whether he gives the right answer or wrong answer to that question. >> and the interview went on, he was cut off. that was awkward. take a look. >> this thing, if you want to -- >> ten seconds to hard break. >> the answer is, i believe that we should get rid to obama care. it's a disaster, it's going to cost a trillion dollars -- >> got it. thank you, sir. we'll be right back. >> wow. >> you know what's funny, this relationship between romney and fox is something -- you know and

i know nobody -- we don't like to talk about it because we're another media outlet. but it's always been an uneasy relationship. john, you probably feel more comfortable talking about it than i will. >> he's not their guy. >> he's not their guy, but they don't hate him either. >> he's not their guy. >> they've never embraced him and he's never embraced them. >> the truth is they haven't embraced anybody. we talked for a long time at the beginning of this race we thought there would be a fox primary that fox would line up behind someone -- >> it was chris christie. >> that's right. but that never happened. and so though it's true, everything chuck said is true, it's ended up being not as bad for romney as it could have been. >> correct. >> had there been fox really embracing some alternative. >> don't forget fox embraced rudy four years ago. they did everything they could for rudy and it didn't work. >> the first part of that answer, i think, the beginning of that tape. it's almost like he has not yet totally come to terms with the fact he's no longer the

inevitable candidate. and talking about. even the way they talk about the numbers, ill stit still project aura of i'm inevitable. instead of i know i have to appeal to conservative voters. his attitude is still, you know, i'm still going to be the nominee. it's all on track, we've had a few bumps in the road, but basically we're plodding toward it. the republican base still wants to hear something from mitt romney that will convince them to be comfortable with him. >> the campaign has ignored one fundamental aspect of american politics in that he has yet -- i have yet to hear him. i don't know whether perhaps you people have heard him say i need your help. >> yes. >> i need your vote. i need you. he doesn't do that. >> give him another piece of advice. i'm going to give him the right answer to i'm a rich guy. instead of saying, yeah, i'm successful. you know the first part of my life i did dedicate myself to making a lot of money, now i

want to dedicate myself to my country. and he's never made that -- >> no one would believe that. i don't believe it when you say it. >> well, just because it's donny saying it. >> but now, you know, yes, and a lot of people spend their entire lives going that way. i've been very fortunate and now, you know, i have a mission that i really want -- >> here's one of life's rules in terms of -- >> tell me life's rules. >> one of life's rules, one of life's rules is that you're in difficulty, if you're in trouble, if something has happened where you need help. if you ask for help, you're going to find people willing to stick out a hand to help pull you out of the ditch. if you sit there in that ditch and just wallow in self-pity and continue to insist you're something you're not, you know, i'm still inevitable, i'm still the front-runner, people are going to walk by you. >> my entire life is a cry for help. >> yes, it is. >> donny, to your point. there's a piece in the new "gq" about romney's relationship to being a politician. and he talks about how romney still has never really embraced

the second half of this, which is, you know, his life has clea cleaved in two. he still talks about himself as if i've never been a politician. there's something bad about politics -- >> and there's a sacrifice to being a politician. there really is. >> but, you know, it's part of the thing of not embracing the fact -- >> we are living in a time where you don't want to embrace or look like it. president obama, that was what made -- that was part of his appeal four years ago. he was not -- he was selling himself as not your average politician. i think he pays the price for it now when he's not good at the -- he doesn't like doing the d.c. politics as one leader said to me. he doesn't like the greasy pole of politics. >> i totally agree, but he's been running for office consistently since 1993, romney has. you can't run away from that. it's been 19 years he's been doing nothing but politics, you

might as well just admit it. >> and if you're a private equity guy, you could have spent the last two decades turning that into $1 billion versus saying, hey, i'm taking a turn. because you really are sacrificing. you are putting -- you're exposing yourself, the amount of time and energy versus the payback literally and figuratively. there's a story there. are you listening, mitt? i'm here to help. >> i just think, i don't know, there's something been lost along the way. you're asked about gaffes? first of all, what's your message? and if you're asked about gaffes, say i don't want to talk about -- if you don't like me because i'm a little awkward, that's fine. but i've got to tell you, this is what i want to do for the country. i don't want to talk about gaffes. >> what is this story, chuck? right now you're directing traffic -- >> there's two ways to do a story. you have a message or you have a personal story. john mccain maybe one of the best personal stories. >> incredible story. >> to sell. and it's why he overcame problems in the south ideologically.

and i really think some conservatives say, that man served his country and that helped overcome. romney doesn't have that. but there is a couple of stories he has to tell and they're afraid of them. number one is his record as massachusetts governor. that's the story he should be telling but doesn't want to because of health care. the other story would be. the man is grounded in faith in a way that -- more so -- he spent years building the mormon church and being a leader in the mormon church in boston. it's uncomfortable because he's afraid of his religion. and then the business guy, it got blown up. that was the narrative they were going to tell. i'm the fix-it, the turn around artist and this is what america needs right now. and instead, which really should be the story, i think they should -- he stopped it. it's like they got so shell shocked by the bain attacks and tax returns. and what have they done since? they've actually been wandering. they've been wandering around sort of limping along on process. >> totally agree. >> let me ask both of you guys

because you know more about it than most anybody on theplanet.u know more about it than most anybody on the planet. what about the idea that mitt romney cannot really be more of himself than he has been because he's been so -- to use your phrase -- shell shocked by how far right the base of his party is. and he can't identify with how far right they are, but he knows he has to play to it. and he's really much more -- >> can't offend it. i think that's the sort of line he drew. i'm not going to be it, but i'm not going to offend them. >> you think about the guy. the place where you have some sympathy for him is -- i read this story in the magazine a few weeks ago where this great conservative activist made this point that romney in 2008 was the conservative alternative to mccain. and now four years later he's running on the same positions and the base thinks he's too moderate and he hasn't changed. in terms of what he believes on any specific issue hasn't changed at all. the party has moved much further

right to the point where he became the conservative alternative to being way too moderate and he's got to be baffled by that. what do i do here in that situation? the party has shifted underneath his feet and he's not particularly adept politician as a performer. and so it's been, you know, that's the deeper thing going on. >> that's what we learned and i think none of us really didn't realize that four years ago is how -- unnimble? that he's not nimble. >> maladroit. >> there you go. >> just bottom line, can rick santorum raise the money? what are we really talking about here when we just talk about the lack of whatever it is that mitt romney brings to the table. is there anyone who could do it? >> well, santorum only is successful in this endeavor if suddenly that majority of the party says we've got to blow the process up. that's the only -- let's be realistic. santorum is not -- the idea that he can somehow put this toget r together, he's not going to be able to get the delegates. romney's likely going to get the

delegates. if it's that kind of race. santorum almost has to win. to appeal to say i'm the guy, i'll throw myself on the grenade. be with me, i'm the one that can blow up the process. i think ultimately that's how he'd get over the top. maybe that's the thing which, of course, is unrealistic. >> before we go to break, we got video in moments ago of former illinois governor rod blagojevich leaving his home on route to federal prison in colorado. he said last night at 5:00 was his final media appearance. everyone showed up at his house, he's beginning to serve a 14-year sentence on corruption charges. those are the final shots, potentially, for quite some time of rod blagojevich. >> we'll miss him, don't you think? >> we're all curious, what's the hair going to look like when he gets out? >> long. stay with us. still ahead, defense secretary leon panetta meets with hamid

karzai in afghanistan today as more americans say they should speed up its withdrawal from the country. we'll talk about that with the "washington post's" david ignatius. but first here's bill karins with the forecast. looks like the summertime conditions have come to an end for areas of new england while the rest of the country is enjoying the warm air. we kind of have a battle setting up in new england. we had cold air move in overnight coming from the north. still have that mild air right around washington, d.c. usually it's very difficult for the cold air to really sit there that long, but i think it's going to probably do it for most of today. so be prepared for a chilly day today, takes a while for the warm air to move back in, that's why it's only in the 40s maybe 50s areas like new york city, providence, and boston. 83 in d.c. so a big temperature contrast of 40 degrees between boston and d.c. also in the midwest, thunderstorms this morning, ohio, in the middle of the country. that's where the warm air continues. beautiful spring-like conditions. we'll have an update on that a little later.

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♪ at the upcoming nato summit in my hometown of chicago we'll determine the next phase of transition. this includes shifting to a support role next year in 2013. in advance of afghans taking full responsibility for security in 2014. we're going to complete this mission. and we're going to do it responsibly. >> if you compare where we are today with where we've been two, three years ago, the situation is considerably improved. i think the u.s. surge and the additional uk troops we put in, particularly into helmand province had a transformative effect. >> welcome back to "morning

joe." joining us now from washington, former national security adviser dr. zbigniew brzezinski. author of "strategic vision," america and the crisis of global power. also joining us, columnist for the "washington post" david ignatius. gentlemen, thanks for joining us. dad and then david, i'd like both of you to answer. the obvious massacre in afghanistan that happened over the past week, how do you think the mission should be handled moving forward? and what are your concerns whether we draw down on time or earlier? >> if you're asking me, my response is that we are to stick to our schedule. that schedule is reasonable, it's well-calculated. and it would convey panic if we were now to accelerate it dramatically. >> david ignatius? >> well, not for the first time in my life i find myself agreeing with dr. brzezinski. the schedule for withdrawal is something that's been worked out with the most important allies

of the united states. our nato partners. it's a phased withdrawal two years from now, u.s. and other nato combat troops will essentially be out of afghanistan. in the middle of next year, in theory, we will shift the lead responsibility for security to the afghan forces. i think if that timetable were rally changed, the effects in afghanistan would be to add to the growing uncertainty and would encourage different groups to try to grab pieces of the country themselves. you'd have a real respite of civil war and partition. that may happen anyway after 2014, but the least the u.s. can do is try to stabilize the situation, give the afghans the best chance they can have. >> i believe there may be some disagreement here on the set. we'll start with richard haass. richard? >> i actually would accelerate it. not because of the incidents of

the last two days, i would have favored a faster program to begin with. i simply don't think as david himself hinted at in his response there that at the end of the day we are going to have the results that will justify this human and economic investment. so i actually agree with those like vice president biden who have been arguing for years that the united states should get down to a much smaller force much sooner. i simply don't think this is consistent with either our economic situation or the desire to place a greater emphasis on the asia pacific and it won't work among other things given that pakistan continues to provide a sanctuary to the forces that are attacking americans and afghanis. >> and i want both of our guests from washington to respond. dad, what would be the difference if we draw down a little earlier? would there be any difference in terms of the overall mission, impact, or success if you will? >> look, you can't have it both ways. if we are drawing down just a little bit, it means nothing. a few people here, a few people there. a draw down is a draw down.

everybody would perceive it as such. and the timing would be awful. i think the fact of the matter is that the proposed pattern of disengagement is relatively rapid. and there is a reasonable chance if we can couple it with serious stops with the taliban or qatar or more serious efforts around afghanistan in discussion with the regional concerns and regional responsibilities that are involved in the disengagement from afghanistan, we can hack it. but now to start accelerating the withdrawal, pretending it has nothing to do with the recent events is a kind of a sham that will be transparent to everyone and would be a sign of panic very thinly camouflaged. >> david, we just flashed up a poll that indicated 50% of the respondents of the poll want an immediate withdrawal, rapid withdrawal, could you please

talk to the -- just the logistical element of withdrawing 90,000 troops from a hostile environment. it can't be done more quickly than 12 months at a minimum, don't you think? >> mike, that probably is true just in terms of physical logistics. the pakistanis have closed the two border access points that we used for land transport into afghanistan. amazingly military in afghanistan have thmanaged to kp our troops supplied with food, fuel, and all the other things you need for combat operations through the northern distribution route. the big problem i'm told is getting stuff out. we have ten years worth of hardware that's accumulated in afghanistan, which we would like to begin moving out already. and that's impossible while the roads are closed. so getting the stuff out isn't easy. people often say that retreat under fire is the most difficult maneuver that military has to do.

we're already planning on a retreat under fire over two years. the idea of an accelerated retreat just i think would worry anybody out there for the affect on afghans and also for the increased risk for u.s. troops. >> chuck todd? >> well, they -- i do think this morning there is some word that pakistan's going to open up one of these routes back for nato. there have been mixed reporting on that this morning. but my question to both richard and david is this, did you hear yesterday, here's what i heard sitting in the rose garden yesterday from the president and cameron. we hear you, this is to the public. and don't worry -- the message was we're not sticking to -- we're sticking to our guns as far as the afghans are concerned, but don't worry, we are winding down the mission. we are leaving. like they were so desperate to make sure that was the message that they sent. we're leaving, we're getting out, we're making the footprints smaller. there's only a certain amount of

time. they just language-wise, richard, couldn't use the language you would like to basically -- we're doing this and, oh, by the way, we're going to announce the timetable for sure, which means they probably are accelerating, but in two months, won't look like it's connected. >> we are not getting out, we are drawing down. the only question is exactly how fast. we know we're getting down to 68,000 troops at a minimum buy this september. how fast beyond that? and what is the residual force? by the end of the day by 2015, do we have 10,000, 15,000 americans, can they work effectively with afghans? and will it make a difference? and i think the big question is whether we draw out quickly, slowly. we leave some forces behind. five or ten years from now, will there really be an afghanistan that's viable? i think the question is out there. >> well, that's certainly a question. dad, the lower third here is asking if the region will be ready in 2014. will the region ever be ready ever? >> i was just going to --

>> are you asking me? >> yes. >> i'm not sure if the region's going to be ready. i think it's quite possible that the region's going to be very unstable for a long period of time. pakistan has been mentioned. pakistan has domestic problems. but does that mean that we should therefore get out into much more hurried fashion? on that, i think, i feel rather strongly would be a very big mistake. but, look, suppose we get into a war with iran in the next few months, directly or indirectly. one of the iranian responses probably will be to help destabilize afghanistan further. and they have influence in western afghanistan. so we could be finding ourselves in a lot of unexpected situations. given all of that, the answer is not simply to accelerate leaving, but to try to make arrangements if possible that will provide for some greater stability on the ground, including partial deal with the taliban and regionally involving the country's involved because

once we're gone, but if the situation gets worse, the region as a whole is going to become very volatile. so there is some potential regional interest in some sort of comprehensive arrangement. >> okay. so you mentioned other countries that could become hot spots that already are that are percolating. we have syria unfolding before our eyes right now. david ignatius, i'd love to hear, actually, from both of you. david, you start about the situation there and the options we have. to deal with it. >> the war in syria is a cruel war in that you have a big well-armed army going after what's pretty much a rag tag resistance group. they call it the syrian army, but that overstates its capable and it's painful for the world to watch these people being gunned down. there are some who say well, in the sense of moral outrage it's

understandable and appropriate. let's arm them, let's send in arms. and my fear, frankly, mika, is that that would lead to a lot more civilian deaths. that a sort of hasty feel good arm the rebels plan is not in the interest of that population. this is an area where i would hope that very creative diplomacy working with the arab league but also working with russia, which wants to be seen as a power in that region and really has an interest in stabilization of syria short of civil war. i hope those options are being explored, because i think they're a key to a transition from the assad government that doesn't leave tens of thousands of people dead. and i think the administration's caution on this, not on all things, but on this has been appropriate. >> chuck? >> mr. brzezinski, i wanted to ask you about what cameron said yesterday. i felt like the news that came out of the joint press

conference actually was from cameron. when he laid out a specific sort of timetable of getting involved in syria. which was, number one, we're going to go back to the united nations, which seemed to be code for we're going to -- and he said the russians and the chinese, get them -- make another attempt to get an agreed upon resolution. and then he used some language when he said because we don't want the -- not doing anything at this point, the inevitable consequence is going to be revolution or civil war and what was left unsaid it sounded like that's the moment then, by the way, we might get involved. almost like he was sending a message to the russians. maybe i'm overreading it, dr. brzezinski, what did you hear? >> well, i agree with you. and i also agree with what david said earlier. i think we ought to see if we can get russia involved in a constructive fashion in dealing with this problem. i think it makes a lot of sense. i think also it makes a lot of sense for the solution not to look as if it was contrived by external powers with what people in the region might view as imperial ambitions.

that includes, first of all us, secondly includes the british, third, does include also the russians. so i would put more emphasis, frankly, on consulting with the turks and the saudis. they're right there. they're next door. both are relatively healthy countries economically, politically cohesive, the turks have a very strong military force. if they conclude together with the other arabs in the region that they really want to intervene militarily in what could become the bloody war as david ignatius very well put it, then reluctantly, we'll have to help them because they are the prime players there and they're friends of us and we have mistakes. if they are reluctant to go in militarily and politically, then we certainly shouldn't. i think the worst course of action would be for the united states to become the prime mover in what would be escalating violence. and the bottom line is, syria is not iraq. assad is not gadhafi.

this is much tougher, it's also much more fragmented in terms of the opposition. the position isn't viable, it's not composed of syrian leaders, it's sporadic. if syria unravels, we'll get sectarian conflict between the sunnis and shiites, the christian community of about 2 million people will be in great trouble. we better play it cool. >> all right, dad. the book is "strategic vision." get it for your kids. it's about their future. dr. zbigniew brzezinski. what's that, dad? dad, thank you very, very much. and david ignatius, thank you, as well. >> coming up, a first look at the new cover of "time" magazine. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ we were skipping stones and letting go ♪

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coming up in a few minutes, espn college basketball analyst digger phelps will join us. and he brought his highlighter. >> there it is. oh, a green one today. >> "morning joe" will be right back. ahh, one.

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rick stengel is here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. and i think i'm going to like it. >> i think you're going to like it. >> am i going to like it? >> feels like it's tailored for you. >> oh, good. >> the story is called "the richer sex." and the fact that women will be outearning men in a few years and what are the consequences of society. right now in our economy, 40% of women of couples, the -- the wife out-earns the husband. and in the next few years -- >> working way too much. >> no, i'm looking at barnicle. >> and the story looks -- from her forthcoming book of the same title and looking at the consequences of that. and basically we say it's a good

thing, it's a win/win. >> i would say this is probably not all good news for women. there are the trends as it pertains to what's called the mancession meaning lower salaries are becoming higher salaries. does that make sense? >> it's the part of the economy that's doing well. women now are getting 60% of all the advanced degrees, masters degrees, ph.d.s. 60% of people in college are now women. they have their eyes set on those high-end jobs which is a place where the economy is thriving. so the downside -- there can be downsides for women, but there are downsides for men in the sense that the old jobs, those old kind of working class jobs where you have a high school degree, work in construction, et cetera, and provide for a family are going away. it's the high-end ones that are left and women are getting them. >> i'll tell you where it really pays off, no pun intended and it's around the breakfast table or dinner table with children who come to realize that mom's

on an equal footing maybe even more than an equal footing with the old man. >> exactly. and it's funny one of the old studies shows in the household where the woman does out-earn the man, she makes twice as many economic decisions as the husband does. >> thank god. >> exactly. >> what's interesting, one of the few things i figured out early on is women are actually superior to men in business. most of my partners are women. and mika, one of the things about your book -- >> first he likes my shirt, now he likes my book. >> for any woman out there. one thing i know if your story gets into, are women now still learning the tools as far as asking for the dough? one of the things is i've always said in my life. i've never had a woman ask for a raise. and what i love about your book is it kind of empowers, except that it's your book. it does empower women to go for the ask. >> and as mika knows, one of the statistics in our story shows even though women will soon be

out-earning men on the dollar they still only make 81 cents -- >> from my understanding, that hasn't changed. >> that hasn't changed. >> is it simply that women don't ask for the raise? aren't as aggressive as demanding raises as men are? >> i think -- >> i think that's to me the real fascinating core of your book. >> do women go for the ask? >> they don't as much as they should. but i'm hearing more and more that they are. as i go out and talk to women, i've had a couple of events lately, they're feeling it now. they're beginning to feel these numbers that you're seeing. >> i think once you become -- once you're in the majority, you start using that advantage. >> it's also become much more appropriate. part of the norm for women to actually be aggressive about making money. >> right. >> i think for the past two decades for sure we were making money, but we didn't feel comfortable asking for more, maybe even asking for our worth. >> right. >> the data still shows that women are paid less than their male counterparts overall across the board.

we still have a lot of hurdles. >> there are more women than men working part-time. and part-time workers actually, you know, tend to get the short end, no pun intended. but when women are in those more dominant positions and become more indispensable, you can ask for your worth. >> is there anything in there as far as women being more collaborative in the workplace? do you get into that? >> i think that is true. the story doesn't have that much social science. and one of the things it looks at is this idea. the other mean out there is this end of men idea. >> uh-huh, exactly. >> so one of the things -- the idea that this is actually good for men, that men have to adapt and in relationships they have to adapt. but obviously this is something that is in general good for the economy, good for the family. >> this advance degree issue, though, i have a friend of mine who is a dean of admissions. he was at george mason. and he said one of the things -- you're never supposed to --

you're supposed to have blinders on on gender. but sometimes they'll have a class that's 65% women, 35% and they're like, wait a minute. and it's -- it's -- it goes to what you're saying women are getting -- they're out-degreeing men right now. there's a whole generation. and the gap's going to be -- >> i'm seeing with my friends with high school-age kids, it's cool to be smart. what didn't exist. . you used to have the cool girl in the class, the smart girl in class, and it's become one in the same. i'm not doing this -- this is the last nice thing. put your book up. somebody who has three daughters, every woman going to work should read this book. >> you're adorable. thank you. >> seriously. and the cover of "time" magazine also. let's get all the plugs in there. >> "the richer sex." is he shameless or what? >> i'm going on record, i'll never say -- >> it's -- >> i'll never say anything nice about you again. >> it's a negotiating technique.

>> it's more for the young women in america. >> he is. >> and -- >> he's helping women. >> and let's not forget, a nice ice cold starbucks coffee, as well. >> are you in the advertising business? >> rick stengel, thank you. "morning joe" back in a moment. i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry !

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♪ . welcome back to "morning joe." you know, the home of espn, where is bristol again? >> no one does it better. >> technologically, they're ahead of everybody, aren't they? >> they've got best lighting. >> best lighting in the business. >> let's go up to bristol, digger phelps. and the interrogation room, apparently up in bristol, connecticut. >> my fellow americans. my fellow americans, the nation needs a coach. here's the next segment, right? >> digger, did walsh and skipper forget to pay the electric bill this month? >> no, barnicle just had a coop, he didn't want me to go on so he pulled the switch. >> i have three color-coated

sharpies. >> it always matches the tie. we have to explain that. >> let's talk some business here. we had the play in games, the real deal starts today, 12:15 p.m., i encourage everybody to take the day off. >> national holiday. >> it is a national holiday, chuck, i'm glad you said that. your final four, digger phelps, who are you looking at? >> well, let's go into the east first. i know you love vanderbilt. >> i do. >> syracuse, believe it or not, ranks the second worst rebounding team in the whole tournament, rank 235 in rebound margin in the country. if vandy makes their threes, i think they can take care of business if k. state doesn't beat syracuse. you don't knock off duke twice, north carolina twice and yeah, you may have ohio state, but i really feel that when you look at michael sneer that florida state can get to that region. but if you want an upset in the east, it's going to be west virginia over gonzaga, being played in pittsburgh, the

three-hour jet lag time zone change. i think kevin jones and company, west virginia, there's your upset. >> everybody's talking about fab mellow like he's jordan. would you pick -- >> i thought -- no, i thought vanderbilt, the way they played against kentucky, they were ready to beat syracuse because john jenkins can shoot threes and that's very important to beat that zone. you've got to be careful with turnovers, willie, because vanderbilt the first game of the year, they had 21 turnovers, cleveland state got 22 points and that's why you lost. but against kentucky, only had 11 turnovers, that's a good sign. shooting threes is big against that syracuse zone. >> absolutely. and we know they can do that. florida state coming out of the east. who is florida state going to play in the semifinal? >> well, when i look at the midwest, and everybody's talking north carolina being a one seed. kansas, hello, kansas is playing there. and they should get to st. louis. and i should see kansas upsetting north carolina.

>> sure. >> and yet in that region, if you're looking for an 11-6 upset, it's north carolina state over san diego state. jet lagged, three-hour change. but north carolina state played very, very well in the acc tournament, lost by two in the semifinals in north carolina. i think this team is playing very well. lorenzo brown is a great guard that can score. but when you look at kansas and thomas robinson and taylor, i think carolina hasn't played well on the road. they lost at florida state 90-57, lost to florida state again in the acc tournament and earlier in the year lost 90-80 out at unlv. i like kansas getting to the final four. >> digger, how much does packing the halls in these places -- >> big. sixth man. that crowd. >> really? >> that crowd in st. louis, mike, will be the sixth man. they just love the jayhawks and they will be all over st. louis going after north carolina tarheels. >> digger, who is the sleeper pick this year? who is vcu of this year's

tournament? who should we be looking at as we do our last-minute brackets here. >> well, if we go out west. when you look at michigan state, tom izzo is not the picasso, he's the izzo of designing and painting teams getting to the final four. he's been there six times. i think michigan state with green, missouri's good, but if ricardo gets in foul trouble, missouri can't win. michigan state should dominate in the west, but the sleeper out there is long beach state. here's your 12-5 upset to get to the sweet sixteen. why? long beach state, they've got a long game coming up against new mexico. i think long beach state with the four seniors led by casper ware, they can get there. they played at north carolina, lost by six, played at kansas, lost by eight. played at louisville, lost in double figures. this game in portland is the second-round match-up is a

payback game because long beach state can beat louisville in the second round and get to the sweet sixteen. >> digger, there's always one conference that takes it on the chin, right? one of the major conferences. which conference could be the overrated conference? after this weekend we say, a ha it was the big east or the big ten, which of the big conferences do you think could really lay an egg? >> well, the pac-12's been horrible all year. >> they're not in. they barely have any teams in. i'm talking about big conferences with a bunch of teams in. >> well, the big east. and we saw -- i don't think the big east was that strong all year. and when you look at the big east, if syracuse is the best. and that's why the west with marquette and louisville out there, there's no beast in the east going to take on michigan state. so with the west having two of those teams out there, i still think michigan state's the team to beat. but the big east to me has had one of those years where there haven't been any good teams. syracuse shot 35%, louisville

shot 35%. and that's a big issue. i think baylor knocks off duke when you look at the south because duke has struggled against teams that spread the floor and duke themselves has not been making three. against florida state they shot under 40% in the acc tournament. so from that standpoint, look at what's out there. it's mostly chalk, but i really like kansas to upset north carolina, michigan state has a lock in the west, south kentucky should get there. one flaw in kentucky in the three s.e.c. games, they were 12 for 53 shooting threes, so i'm going to play them like i played barnicle. play off because he can't shoot. >> all right. the music's playing, digger, we've got to go. who is going to win it all? who's the champ? >> i've got michigan state. i think tom izzo. >> wow. >> he's the picasso is izzo, yes, he's got the paint, got the canvas and he's going to win in new orleans. and you know what's in new orleans, we'll be there in two weeks with a big surprise. >> we're going to see you.

digger phelps in bristol, connecticut, where there's no electricity this morning. espn's not making any money anymore? the candle light interview with digger phelps. thanks so much. we'll talk to you soon. still ahead, adrien brodie will be here on this set. need any help? uh, nope. just, uh, checking out my ad. nice. but, you know, with every door direct mail from the postal service, you'll find the customers that matter most: the ones in your neighborhood. print it yourself, or we'll help you find a local partner. and postage is under 15 cents. i wish i would have known that cause i really don't think i chose the best location. it's not so bad. i mean you got a deal... right? [ bird cries ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail.

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♪ good morning and welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city.

back with us onset we have mike barnicle and donny deutsch. also richard haass joins us. let's get right to foreign news. u.s. officials say the man who crashed a stolen pickup at a military airport in afghanistan yesterday was trying to kill marines who had gathered to meet defense secretary leon panetta. the truck crashed near the runway moments before panetta's plane was due to land. officials say the driver who emerged from the truck on fire died today from his injuries. the security breach underscores renewed tensions in the country four days after an american staff sergeant allegedly killed 16 afghan civilians. secretary panetta addressed that shooting incident yesterday while meeting with u.s. troops. >> we will not allow individual incidents to undermine our resolve to that mission and to sticking to the strategy that we've put in place. we will be tested, we will be challenged.

we'll be challenged by our enemy, we'll be challenged by ourselves, we'll be challenged by the hell of war itself. but none of that, none of that must ever deter us from the mission that we must achieve. >> in an unusual move, u.s. marines gathered to hear mr. panetta were told to leave their weapons outside. the "new york times" interview says all i know is to get the weapons out. someone's got itchy, that's all i've got to say someone got itchy. the general who gave the order later said the decision had nothing to do with the shooting spree over the weekend. the pentagon, meanwhile, is trying to work out where the american soldier will be tried for those murders. for now he's been moved to a detention center in kuwait. but afghan officials are demanding the trial take place

inside afghanistan. before we get to polls on this on our mission there. a couple of questions. first the decision to remove the weapons, a sign of what, richard haass? >> nervousness, both a symbol and a reality. it doesn't question the fundamentals of what we're doing there which deserve to be questioned, but it's another sign just on a day-to-day level, the requisite level of trust is disappearing. >> bigger picture, though, obviously everyone is horrified about what's happened by the massacre. morale for the troops, it's got to be difficult. how did panetta do? >> he did okay, but you can't do better than okay. it's not a criticism of leon panetta, it's the policy. it's not working. the whole idea is to build up the afghan government, that's going much more poorly than expected. you still have a sanctuary for the taliban. at the end of the day, it's hard to imagine this investment of blood and treasure is going to pay off in enduring gains.

that's the fundamentals. we have to get down to a much smaller -- i think the question is how fast do we get down? what is the size of the so-called residual force? and can you sustain a residual force in afghanistan given that neither side trusts the other? >> let's look at the big picture. "usa today" gallup poll shows 50% of americans want to speed up the withdrawal from afghanistan, 21% say the u.s. should stay for as long as it takes to accomplish the mission. speaking alongside british prime minister david cameron at the white house, president obama said the recent events there not lead to a sudden pullout of american troops. >> in terms of pace, i don't anticipate at this stage that we're going to be making any sudden additional changes to the plan that we currently have. >> richard, take our viewers behind the scenes on this.

what kind of discussions are happening at the highest levels of our government about expediting the process of leaving afghanistan? we're already supposed to leave at the end of 2014. how much quicker can we reasonably get out of the country? >> right now we're about 90,000 troops, we're due to get down to just under 70,000 by september. so the real question is how do we go from 70,000 say to 20,000 or 15,000? do we do that over two years? over 12 months, that's the discussion. the vice president and others want to compress the timetable. bottom line is, i don't think either timetable is going to work if by work you mean an afghanistan that will be self-sufficient and be able to stand up and be a functioning quality sort of country that's going to be safe and stable. i think the fundamentals don't work. so we can argue all we want about timetables. i don't believe at the end of the day in five to seven years, will we have something to really show for this investment? i would say no regardless of the

timetable. >> you wonder if military leadership the president or anybody else believes their own rhetoric on this where they say we've got to stay so that the taliban doesn't come back so that al qaeda doesn't come back in the country. as richard says, that could go on for eternity. >> well, i think that's probably a lot of wishful thinking in the rhetoric that hour leaders employ about this. but with regard to removing 90,000 troops from a hostile environment, you're not going to be able to do it overnight. to take 90,000 troops out of the theatre of war is going to require at a minimum, at a minimum of 12 months because there's an element called force protection. and when you remove troops, you have to make sure you have enough troops around the troops being removed to protect the troops that are there. there's no way to get 90,000 troops in a month or two months or three months. >> you're exactly right. it takes time. the bigger question, though, we are supposed to keep forces there as we remove our combat role to advise and train the

afghans. >> that's a joke. >> advising and training means afghan and american units living together, training together, working together with guns. and right now it's not clear that either side really has the basic level of trust to work with the other. so the whole basic mission, i think now has a question mark on it. >> well, it gets to definition of mission. what is the definition of mission? >> speaking of which, rich, i don't know if you can answer this. we say 90,000. those are 90,000 young people. does the average soldier -- are they in a situation -- i'm fighting for my country and the blinders are there. or do a lot of them on some level say what am i doing here? they don't have a clear answer of why they're there in a war like this? >> in my experience visiting troops in the field, most people who are serving don't spend a lot of time asking that question. what they really care about is their own survival, the survival of the guy next to him.

it's that kind of solidarity, doing the mission you were asked to give. there's an incredible culture and discipline of service that obviously people want to get through it. they want to survive. that's the level you live on rather than debating geopolitics like we might debate around this table. they've got a day-to-day reality. they can't change the policy. what they can do is implement it and keep themselves alive and the guy next to them alive. today marks the one-year anniversary of the syrian uprising where 8,000 people have been killed. reports of new violence are coming in from around the country today, including near damascus where activists say explosions and gunfire could be heard earlier this morning. further south, opposition fighters say over 100 government tanks descended on the birthplace of the revolution. yesterday, president obama defended his decision not to intervene in syria. >> in terms of pace, i don't

anticipate at this stage that we're going to be making any -- sudden additional changes to the plan that we currently have. >> britain's "guardian" newspaper is reporting that thousands of e-mails taken from president assad's personal account suggest his regime is getting advice from iran. the paper says the messages reportedly intercepted by members of the opposition also show assad mocking the reforms he'd promised. meanwhile assad's wife was apparently spending thousands of dollars on the internet for designer goods including diamond necklaces while food and medicine for civilians remain in short supply. richard, i mean, obviously it's sick with the wife. but the connection with iran. how would you characterize the connection? >> there's all sorts of evidence

that iranians are providing advice and maybe more than advice to this regime and strategically one of the rationales is to deal iran a strategic setback in the region. but these e-mails show something else. they show on one hand how isolated this leadership is. on the other hand, how cruel and brutal they are. truly brutal. and what it is, this is a minority regime. this is winner-take-all and loser lose all. this is a fight to the finish. so any hope of negotiating this, ain't gonna happen. this is going to end. these guys are going to survive until the day they disappear. this is all or nothing. >> what does the international community do in the interim, though? because every morning when i come in here, there's another story that the government tanks have rolled into another town, wiped it out, killed people, killed journalists, leveled the buildings. how much longer can the international community watch this day in, day out? this could go on -- >> could go on for a while. the problem is, most of the

ideas of military intervention don't hold up to scrutiny. this is a densely populated country, real military. this is not libya. they have a real air force and a real army. you want to take them out militarily, you're going to war. arming the opposition is a problem because the opposition is not a singular organized entity. it's multiple gangs, tough to work with them. i would say right now you want to focus on upping the sanctions and beginning to create a political alternative. you want to encourage defections from the regime. you want to get a bunch of people out there saying we're the alternativist government, all syrians have a place here regardless of your religion. we want to begin to get people to defect from the regime. i'm not sure at the moment the military path to oust the regime is as good as the political and economic path. >> we're going to move to politics. mitt romney, is this the awkward he'll be able to grind out victory in the republican race for the presidency. he hopped off the campaign trail yesterday to raise funds in new york city. he told supporters that despite back-to-back losses in the south

on tuesday, he still has a commanding lead in delegates. it's the math. in an interview yesterday, romney was asked whether those losses underscores a perception that conservatives would prefer someone else to win the party's nomination. >> they have to go back and look at some other states that are actually kind of important. let's say florida, for instance, where i won and michigan and ohio and nevada and new hampshire. the list goes on. last night, by the way, they're forgetting there are a couple of other contests, hawaii, where i won. and last night i got more delegates than anybody else. this is a process of becoming the nominee. we're pursuing that in an intelligent way. and conservatives when you ask in the prior elections, who as conservatives did you vote? i won the conservative vote. some who are very conservative may not be in my camp, but they will be when i make nominee. >> you've been making gaffes, governor. people ask you about football and you talk about how you know the nfl owners. they talk about nascar, how you know some racing owners. talk about ann's two cadillacs

and people say he's so rich he can't relate to the rest of us. why do you keep doing that? >> megan, guess what, i made a lot of money. i've been very successful. i'm not going to apologize for that. >> that's the answer people have been asking him to give. are we going to criticize him now for giving the answer everyone said? own it. >> he's always on defense. he's always playing defense. you know, just if you watch the question and watch his tone, he's never leaning forward and he's got to start to go on the offense. you're smirking at me in that loving way you so do. >> we were talking yesterday about part of his problem is that the traveling press corps with him, they don't like him. they have very limited access to him. so everything he says about, you know, hey, i know woody johnson or whatever, they're going to blow it up and make it larger than what it is. santorum and gingrich have had as many gaffes and they fly around the radar. coming up, oscar-winning

actor adrien brody will be here. anthony shadidi, we'll talk to anthony's widow about his passion for reporting in the middle east. that's when we come back. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> well, mika, i talked about how beautiful it is in many parts of the country. now it's time to talk about people suffering through a dreary and cool spring. let's talk about what's happening on the west coast. that's where all the worst of it is. we've been watching rainstorm after rainstorm over the last week. it's not been fun around oregon and washington state, that storm system continues now. the mild air covers the southeast. but all this green on this map is rain. we're locked into almost all of washington state. and as we go through the south from san francisco northward, a cool, raw day continues for you. highs today only in the 50s on

the west coast. as far as the middle of the country goes, still beautiful weather. notice how chilly it is in boston, new england, cold air moved in last night, a chilly day today. we're not going to warm you up until that warm front goes through with showers and thunderstorms and a sneak peek shows that warmth makes it into new york and new england. looks like the warmth continues for about four or five more days in a row. all our friends, st. louis and chicago, you could have five days in a row of 80 degrees at the end of winter. amazing. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ our machines help identify early stages of cancer and it's something that we're extremely proud of.

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i remember listening to people speaking arabic and one man did say shoot them. it felt like a minute elapsed but probably a matter of seconds, and as a colleague pointed out, you can't, they're americans. and i dwelled on that idea why that would've necessarily saved us. the only thing i can gather is we were somehow worth something to them. and to me one of the more disturbing moments was being interrogated by our captors and, you know, he was asking me in arabic, who you are, where did you come from? and i realized he had no idea who we are, where we come from and where we were going. and i went back to my jail cell with my colleagues and said no one knows where we are. >> that was anthony shadid on "morning joe" last april talking about his week-long kidnapping in libya last year.

shadid passed away in february of an asthma attack while covering the conflict in syria for the "new york times." and joining us now, his wife, netta who is here to carry on his legacy and discuss his memoir. "house of stone" a memoir of home, family, and a lost middle east. netta thank you so much for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> this is anthony's book, his memoir, and the publication was pushed up soon after he died. he was planning on going on book tour. you weren't. >> no. i was not planning on going on the tour. but i did -- you know promise him that i would do whatever i can to help, you know, with the publicity for the book. and after he died, it just felt -- it came natural to me that i would have to do -- >> what you have to do. >> what i have to do. whatever it is, whatever it'll take to make sure that this book is read because it's meant so much to him.

and he spent so much time and effort on it. >> he's -- >> it's beautiful. >> it is. he was an amazing man. i want to read what jill abrahamson, the executive editor of the "new york times" wrote about him. anthony died as he lived determined to bear witness to the transformation sweeping the middle east and testify to the suffering of people caught between government oppression and opposition forces. you understood perhaps more than anybody not only because you loved him, but because you too are a journalist. you understood what drove him, did you not? >> i did, of course. and i think that what made it very easier to be married to a journalist when you understand the nature of their work. and anthony loved nothing more than being a journalist and being a journalist in the middle east. he never imagined himself doing anything other than this. he was really committed to the

story, to the middle east. he learned the language, learned the culture, he lived there for a long time. and, you know, just really almost became like a local in terms of knowing everything. he was really an expert in everything middle east. and he felt that the story was not -- or the middle east was not necessarily covered in a way that -- or in the way that it should be covered. and he hoped, you know, in his 15-year career to try as best as he could to do a little bit of a better job. >> in his book, do you feel he's able to accomplish somewhat of a message about what he wants people to know about the turmoil there? >> i think so. you know, he talks a lot about a middle east that was once very cosmopolitan and it's a middle east that appealed to him most. he talks about how that middle east was lost. and longing for that middle east and i think there's also -- he

also talks about, you know, there's always -- there's always hope and after years of covering violence and conflict, he found peace and hope and -- in this house, in this small village in southern lebanon. so it just kind of like -- even though the middle east that he knew and he longed for and that was cosmopolitan and that really appealed to him was gone, there's always, you know, hope somewhere. >> you know, the house of stone rebuilding this house of stone, rebuilding a sense of optimism about the future entailed in the house, there's all of that in the book. and there's all of anthony in the book. but two things. i know it must have been very

difficult for you to watch the clip that came into this segment of seeing your husband. and the other aspect of it is that when he was with the "boston globe," he was shot. he was a captive in libya. did the constant peril, the constant danger that is the life of a correspondent in a war zone, did this ever occupy the conversation between the two of you? >> not really. because, you know, we lived in the middle east, and it's not like we're looking for wars and conflict. it's just right there around the corner from us. you know, whether in beirut or a neighboring countries or iraq. it's just there. so it was part of the job in being a correspondent in the middle east meant that you were constantly in a dangerous zone or war zone. we talked about, of course, just like any other couple would say, you know, taking precautions,

trying, you know, to always weigh out the risks, the pros and cons of everything. but, you know, at the end there's only so much you can do. >> how did you find out your husband had died? >> i was in turkey with my son. we went there to meet him. and i -- we got there the evening of february 16th and then two hours later after we'd been at the hotel i got a call from the "new york times" and they told me that he died of an asthma attack or apparent asthma attack. >> you know, it's amazing your answer. we lived in the middle east. you know, where everyone is used to a mind set of being so protected in some places and yet in the middle east it's a constant mind set of what could happen next. which is maybe perhaps why it didn't prevail your conversations. having said that, when he was held captive, was there a discussion? or maybe even pressure that he

stay home a bit? >> no, not really. because i never felt that would be right for me to tell him what to do. >> again, you're a journalist too. >> exactly. we could be sitting in our house in beirut and, you know, clashes happen around the corner. it's not like -- i never felt like i can tell him not to go to a place. >> not to follow his instinct. >> yeah. >> it's a beautiful book. and it's -- and you know, there are a lot of foreign correspondents who write books about places that they cover, but i think one of the things that must be for you special about this is that it is not just a book about the politics in the region the conflicts in the region, it's his personal book. talk -- i mean -- i was a friend of danny pearl's and maryann was pregnant when he died and there was always this sense of having been left -- this was the gift he left her was their child.

talk about what this books means to you in this context. it means something different than it would have meant if he were still alive. >> this is his last work and it'll always be his last work. and for my children, for my son, and our daughter, this is what i'm hoping that would comfort them when they're older and when they think about not having their father, they would come here and read this book and feel a little bit of comfort. the book meant a lot for anthony, the house, the rebuilding, spending the year working on the house and rebuilding it. he was really happy. and you can see it when you read the book. you can feel it that it meant a lot to him. he found his home, he found himself, in a way, after years of covering conflicts and seeing so much bloodshed. and, you know, i hope that th they -- when they read the book they would understand the kind of person he was because most of

all he was just a great man before being a journalist or anything else. and a great father. >> and i've seen you on the road sending out this message of your late husband through his book. clearly, that's what you're doing in the near future. what about the future for you? have you thought about it? >> i haven't really thought about it. i'm trying to live one day at a time. it's hard to think about the future and -- when you go through this, living day at a time is much easier. >> all you can do. >> yeah. >> i wish you the best of luck. >> thank you so much. >> and thank you for coming on the show. it's not easy, i know it's a mission for you. >> thank you. >> the book by anthony shadid, "a house of stone," a memoir of home, family, and a lost middle east. thank you so much, a pleasure to

meet you. we're back in just a moment with more "morning joe." hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.

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i asked you a [ bleep ] question, didn't i? >> anything else? >> yeah, back [ bleep ] up before i [ bleep ] you. >> that bag doesn't have any feelings, it's empty. i don't have any feelings you can hurt either. okay? i understand you're angry. i used to be very angry too, okay. i get it. you have no reason to be angry with me because i'm one of the few people that's here trying to give you an opportunity. >> hmm. that was a clip from "detachment," a movie about a substitute teacher struggling to get by in a new york city public school. the star and executive producer of the film academy award winning actor adrien brody. good to have you on the show. >> nice to be here. >> this looks good and relevant.

>> it's very much relevant and it's a beautiful film. it's directed by tony kay who did "american history x." and it's a wonderful film maker, and it's really, you know, really telling about one of our most pressing issues, which is the future of young people. and i'm a product of public school in new york. my father was a public schoolteacher. >> my mom was a public schoolteacher. >> really? >> let's hang out. >> i didn't know that about you. >> how did you turn out this way? >> if you met my parents, they're both the greatest people. >> he's very -- that's kind of what we need to remind ourselves is that, you know, good teachers are really underappreciated and i think there's probably too much pressure put on a teacher to have the responsibility of changing everything. i think education begins in the

home. and a lot of what this film spoke to me about was the importance of all of our responsibility in not perpetuating more isolated young people in this world. >> you know the -- what that clip captured is the reality in a lot of schools, a daily reality in a lot of schools each and every day, not that it's all like that. but it's important to show the reality in a lot of schools because just that clip alone will tell people who are living wherever. often the case it's the safest place for a lot of kids each and every day, the classroom, the school. no matter whether they learn anything or not, we hope they do. but it's the safest. >> yeah, because they have metal detectors -- >> exactly. >> that's a terrible reality. and it shouldn't just be a

matter of it being a safer place. it really should be conducive of learning and it is very complicated, though. i think, you know, it is -- it's mandatory. so, you know, you have lots of different types of people. >> how much did your going to public school and your father being a teacher help you prepare for this role? >> well, my character's a mess in his own life. and he's also kind of suffered tremendous hardships as a child with his mother was abused and i think, you know, detachment represents this universal feeling that so many people who have been subjected to horrendous things in their lives have to kind of cope with their feeling of alienation. but they're not alone. and what's wonderful is he's very generous character.

he reluctantly -- he's a substitute and doesn't want the responsibility to be so accountable, but he's compelled to teach and to try and inspire these young people. helping the young girl he encounters on the street and the students. he pulls himself out of his own sense of isolation and sadness. i think that's a real reminder to us all. generosity and giving often brings us back. >> two quick questions. i shot a commercial years ago with tony kay, the director of this film. you're smiling. he was out of his mind. he was out of his mind. how is that -- he's a brilliant guy, there he is. >> two pictures of both of us with beards. >> we were doing a commercial for the national cable television association and he brought goats and sheep. i mean -- >> he's an artist, though. no, no, no, he's an artist and you have to -- see, i'm very

inspired by spontaneity. >> that's a good word for it. >> and ability. it's the truth. it's the truth. and sometimes, you know, as one of the producers on this film and you have to embrace that. and as an actor, i think it's a wonderful thing to be with someone -- as long as they're in touch and in tune with capturing the essence, whether reality of the moment, then flexibility is great. it's really -- it should be unpredictable. >> another question. we have a couple of guys on the show. there there's no proof yet, pulitzer prize, you're an academy award winner, that is in front of your name forever. when you're introduced to a woman, do they go academy award winner adrien brody. >> do you wear a pin? >> do you carry the statue around? how do you get miles out of

this? >> play a guy who just won -- >> how do you use it? do you carry it around? >> what's your strategy to use it to pull chicks. >> just be quiet. >> no, these guys every month, pulitzer prize winner. what do you do with that? does it sit on the mantle in the house? >> i don't really take it out for a ride. it's taken me for a ride. i don't bring it up. >> can we get donny -- >> i'm sorry. >> i don't bring it up. why would i? >> let me ask a more serious question. >> thank you. >> is this the first time you've acted and produced a movie? or both? >> i have done it before but this time i've been more successful. >> what's the difference in the level of investment, where you're both acting and producing? >> i'm as invested without a producer credit. the advantage of -- it gives me a legitimate voice. you know, i do receive a tremendous amount of respect and to answer your question, i feel

very honored about receiving that recognition and i've received it at a very young age and my work means a great deal to me. and you know, as an actor, you do have a voice, especially if you -- if you are established to a certain degree. but as a producer, it's legitimatized. and my objective is really to ensure the trajectory of the project goes in the right direction. and it's meaningful. and if we set out to make something that is a socially relevant piece that has all of these deep moments that doesn't somehow get diffused. my producers on this had a very similar agenda. so it wasn't difficult, but it allows me to help that process along. and also help my director. >> how many seconds into your conversation with donny did your life flash before your eyes

thinking what am i doing here? >> that's not the first time, hey, buddy, fist bumps. >> which part of queens? >> i go from woodhaven. >> baseline. rock on. >> this is so -- >> he's had too much coffee. >> what is the deal? >> there are a lot of viewers out there, not necessarily watching this show who understand -- i'm sorry. >> this is the guy that smooched on stage when he got the academy award. was it halle berry? >> halle berry. >> do we have a clip of that? >> we're talking about the dire situation in education and young people face and bringing up -- >> thank you. thank you. i'm trying to -- >> joe knows what i'm doing. >> that was a little -- i would say that was a little impulsive of you. >> it was great. >> well, i -- if there's ever an opportunity to be impulsive, that's one of them. >> all right. adrien brody, thank you very

much. you can catch "detachment" on demand now and in select theaters tomorrow. it looks really good. looking ahead to tomorrow, tavis smiley and lawrence o'donnell will be here. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool

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month. also, on wall street. goldman sachs looking to make up big losses from yesterday's session. the 3.4% drop in share value where a department executive wrote a scathing critique about how that company does business. greg smith who ran the firm's u.s. equity derivatives business in europe wrote in part, quote, i can honestly say the environment is as toxic and destructive as i've ever seen it. to put the problem in the simplest terms, the interest of the client continue to be sidelined in the way the firm operates and thinks about making money and today's "new york times" front page, front page of the "new york times." above the fold lead story, public rebuke of culture at goldman opens debate. how badly has goldman been damaged? >> it's interesting, i'm a goldman client. and i think to a lot of people, people go, yeah, and? and i think it's no different with doctors, lawyers, banks, as a client, you have to be in

charge of your own destiny. and i don't think with any -- i'm not letting him off the hook at all. but i wasn't shocked. yeah, and? maybe i'm cynical. >> that's you. i think out there in the country. >> well -- >> look, you remember -- it wasn't that long ago that goldman and it's from lloyd blankfein to many of the senior executives were held before congress. it's not like the reputation hasn't taken some hits over the last couple of years. i'm not sure -- there's a lot of negative feeling about the big banks, i'm not sure this worsens it that much. >> two members of the elite media, ladies and gentlemen, speaking to you. >> elite. >> coming up -- >> the best of late night. >> you sit there and all of a sudden you're a big shot. >> what if anything have we learned today? i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information.

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time to talk about what we learned today. >> i think it's pretty obvious. >> what? wow. >> no more donny. >> we have to take a break. >> just for the day. >> donny -- >> just for the day. >> you know, when someone says it's not you, it's me. >> it's me. >> let's just take a little time. >> i don't know. >> i didn't learn anything. >> clearly. >> i learned people should read this book. >> absolutely. >> anthony shadid was an incredible journalist, incredible guy. >> someone calling you? >> and this book is, you know, really, people should read this book and memorialize this man. >> i completely agree with you. gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us this morning. donny, you know, we'll call you. >> not so much. >> mike barnicle, if it's way too early, what time is it?