since. >> thank you, that's "hardball" for now, thanks for being with us, "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politicsnation," i'll al sharpton. tonight's lead, 27 days since the tragic shooting of trayvon martin and still the man responsible has not been arrested. he is still walking free, still with his gun, still with his gun permit. each day he remains free is a outrage. today, president obama spoke about the incident in very personal terms. >> i think all of us have to do soul searching to figure out how something like this happens. my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. if i had a son, he would look like trayvon. and, you know, i think they are

right to expect that all of us as americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we'll get to the bottom of exactly what happened. thank you. >> the fight for justice is spreading by the hour. many students walked out and protested today. they spelled out his initials on the football field. police say they did not arrest him because he claimed self-defense under the stand your ground law. even under the standards of that law, zimmerman should be arrested. the orlando sentinel said police routinely make arrests for stand your ground cases and let the courts decide if a killing is

justified. court records show police and investigators file more often than not. that happened to chad smith. he was arrested for battery despite pleading self-defense around the stand your ground law. he was convicted. is that what happened to gracton garcia, arrested on a double murder charge. the judge dismissed the case but not before that arrest. not before the justice system had it's say. as we march, as we rally, as we say no rest until an arrest of zimmerman, we're only asking that they operate the way i've shown you they already have. no favors, not asking for something unusual, asking for them not to do something unusual. and that is not make arrest until there has been a full

investigation by a grand jury. that is not the pattern as i just showed you. joining me now is melissa harris perry. and florida state senator oscar braynon who represents a district where trayvon's mother lives. thank you for coming on the show. >> thank you for having me. >> senator, you were calling for a special prosecutor in the case, and you're dealing for hearings into the stand your ground law. senator, why has this man not been arrested? >> that is exactly why i called for the hearing. when he said he used stand your ground, i was under the assumption that when you use stand your ground you get arrested and then a trial figures out that you had -- a jury figures out that you were in self defense. as we did research into it, we found throughout are limited

cases where there is a nonrebuttable preexemption where if the police investigated and if they think it was self-defense they let you go. and i said that needs to go. since we're a part-time legislature, if we need to go into special committee or have a select committee look at that law and change that. as state senator, my job is to make sure the laws protect him and the laws failed him. the laws have not provided the justice that he needs. i thought it was necessary for me to step up and do that. >> senator, thank you. let me ask you, jeb bush was governor when this law was enacted, he defended it back then, let me show you his defense back then. >> it's common sense to allow people to defend themselves and to have to, when you're in a position where you're being threatened, there is a life

threatening situation, to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense. >> now, when you hear jeb bush's defense in 2005, and you now can understand the confusion the senator had and others, because this was painted -- people should have the right to defend themselves if you're threatened, if you're nut a precarious position. professor perry, from what mr. zimmerman himself said on the 911 tapes, none of that was the case here, and the tapes are in the possession of the tapes. so if the police knew he was not under threat in any way -- >> no, he was pursuing. >> yeah, then how do they not make an arrest? >> there is two pieces here. one is a question of whether or not this law is a reasonable

law, and whether or not a legislature and community can expect that this sort of law will lead to this sort of actions. let's look at that for a second, that's important, but i think in this trayvon martin case, the issue is even if this law were operating exactly as written, mr. zimmerman was not behaving in a way consistent with that law. he indicated clearly on those 911 tapes any reasonable person could hear those tapes and hear that he saw someone, he identified them based on his own decision that that person looked suspicious. not on any legal criteria, and then he pursued that person even though 911 told him not to do it. later i heard others say well, trayvon was moving toward him,

but he says he's moving to the other entrance, and he didn't want trayvon to get away. >> he was playing cop, and he was clearly not defending himself. never expressed that at all. let me play the tape for you senator and professor perry. let's play exactly what mr. zimmerman said. >> they always get away. >> are you following him? >> okay, we don't need you to do that. are you following him? yeah. he says they always get away. he was asked, and think said you don't need to do that, okay, after agrees not to do it, whether it was a legal command or not, it doesn't matter, he said something he agreed to and then didn't do it. where in that do you spell he was in danger or threatened and had to defend himself.

he was against his own agreement pursuing somebody. >> and i think if the police did an investigation on the scene, why would they not have been able to figure that out? did he tell them a lie, do we know these things yet? i think that is the biggest part of the injustice of this. that's why people are asking for the chief to step down. they're saying the police did an investigation and came up with that we should let him go. it seems like to a blind person you should have took this man in. >> well, the fact is professor perry, maybe they didn't have the 911 tapes at the scene, but they certainly had them within a day, and you could arrested him the next day. it's 27 days later. >> right, and part of what goes on is the presumption of what's happening. police officers use judgment all

the time for domestic viens, and street level violence. that's what police are trained to do. so if you have them under the leadership of a police chief that trained them that when they find an unarmed teenage dead in a gated community, not only did they let zimmerman walk, he walked with the murder weapon -- the killing weapon, because we don't know if it was murder. but this is a man who is not disarmed. his permit has not been revoked. this is a man, who, when the police officers saw what happened, that there was an armed man and ununarmed child, they said this looks like a circumstance we should let him go. >> not only has he had his kbun taken, he had the police chief become his spokesman. he said the witnesses are contradicting themselves, and mr. zimmerman told us self-defense. .

what are we talking about? let me ask you, senator, you called for a special prosecutor. last night before the rally, the governor came down and he appointed a special prosecutor. does that mean that's progress? is that a step forward? what is your view? >> in my opinion that's a step in the right direction. what we perceived as the culture down there in sanford of a police department allowed to do something like this, and i think even the prosecutor there said that he felt a little uncomfortable because he had a relationship with the police chief. so we thought a special prosecutor from outside that jurisdiction is the best way for us to really receive that type of justice that would be outside of that culture that exists right now in sanford. >> i think you're right. i think it is a step in the right direction, but until we see this man arrests, i'm not going to stop. today, i just want to throw this

at you, dennis baxley, the republican state representative that sponsored this bill, said "as a prime sponsor of this legislation in the florida house, i would like to clarify that this law does not seem to be applicable to the tragedy that happened in sanford." the sponsor is saying it doesn't fit. >> in new orleans, we have heard a lot of articles about the bounty scandal in the nfl, than those held responsible for the death of this child. >> that says a lot. melissa perry and oscar braynon, thank you tonight, tune in for melissa's show, weekends, from 10:00-12:00. ahead. we go in the crime scene where mr. zimmerman was when he was

making those 911 calls. and a neighborhood watch program is supposed to protect people from crime, so how did they get this one so wrong. and protested rallies are breaking out all over the country. why is this sparking such a national movement? you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. this is lawn ranger -- eden prairie, minnesota. in here, the landscaping business grows with snow. to keep big winter jobs on track, at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone from field workers to accounting, initiate, bill, and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota, that's why there's guys like me. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the dodge journey was made to explore the real world. it has under-seat storage to bring everything,

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what really happened that rainy night 27 days ago? our team goes inside the crime scene. where george zimmerman followed and shot trayvon martin. what we found out, that's next. was shaped before you lost your first tooth? ♪ the first five years are forever. that's why pnc created grow up great,

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welcome back to "politicsnation." the sanford police chief has temporarily stepped down, but there are many questions about how his department handled the case. they all start back on that rainy february night when self-appointed neighborhood watch leader george zimmerman called 911. today, joy ann reid retraced the steps that zimmerman and trayvon martin took that night to see how this could have happened. >> this is the clubhouse where trayvon martin stopped to get out of the rain. it's also here that george zimmerman said he first spotted someone suspicious. >> we have had break ins in my

neighborhood, and there is a real suspicious guy. he looks like he is up to no good or on drugs or something. he is at the clubhouse. >> he is near the clubhouse right now? >> yeah. now he is coming towards me. he has his hand in his waistband. and he is a black male, something is wrong with him. yep, he is coming to check me out. he has something in his hands, i don't know what his deal is. they always get away. >> at this point, george zimmerman got out of his suv. there is nowhere else to go in a vehicle. he would have had to pursue him on foot. >> he is running. >> which way is he running? >> down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood?

>> what entrance is that that he's running towards? >> the back entrance. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do that. >> what are you doing? you could hear somebody push -- >> he would have come from this direction running away from a pursuing george zimmerman. he would have come around that swail to perhaps try to elude thim and walk down this lane. if you walk down here, you see the place where trayvon ultimately fell. his conversation took place in front of this house. >> do you need police, fire, or medical? >> if your window is open, you can clearly hear the argument. one of these windows, i don't

know which side, that they did hear the cries for help. >> i don't know what's going on. >> they're sending someone. >> he is yelling help? >> yes. >> someone screamed and i heard gunshots. >> he ended up dieing right up the sidewalk here. >> joining me is a guest who has been asked to be vice chair of a special review of the florida stand your ground law. and eugene donald, a former new york city police officer and prosecutor, thank you both for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> let me start with you eugene, what dose those 911 tapes say to you about george zimmerman? >> this is someone that is not

your average neighborhood watch person. he took it upon himself to get a vehicle, to survey the neighborhood, and we're seeing the terrifying last minutes of the life of this child. we're seeing a very bad picture which strongly suggests that ultimately when this finally gets resolved, a month later, there was no credible claim of self-defense. >> reverend, you have asked to co-chair a review of the law, but many say the law would not cover zimerman anyway. let me play this 911 tape, because nowhere does zimmerman even remotely act like he is being threatened or has to defend him. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay, we don't need you to do

that. >> okay. >> so he is following him, you can hear him huffing yeah, he's told not to do that, he says okay, and follows him anyway. so despite the panel that you have become cochair of, whatever your finding is on the stand your ground law, clearly there is no stand your ground premise in this tape. >> no, sir, reverend. he is outside the law. zimmerman is clearly the aggressor and a pursuer. if anybody should have stood their ground, it should have been the young teenager. and he is on the under ground which is your unfortunate. we need to look at this law, revisit it, and hopefully once we have heard across the state of florida, this law as a great chance of being repealed. >> now, let me ask you, you were

a former new york city detective and prosecutor, how do you hear this tape? >> when you take all of the tapes in the totality of what they say, they clearly now a state of mind that he is looking around the neighborhood for somebody suspicious, finds somebody in his mind is suspicious, and he has found a lot in the neighbor. he is more than an average neighborhood watcher because he is armed. and he is in a state with a bizarre law. so he may have had more sense that he had more latitude than he should have. the law, that police and prosecutors in the state of florida, said this was going to happen. one person said a trick or treater could get shot. when you saw the law, the community watch, and this law, you set a dangerous -- you create a dangerous environnt.

>> reverend holmes, the "orlando sentinel" routine like make arrests on stand your ground cases. one that pastors citizens of florida that for some reason, they acted out of the norm in this case? >> yeah, the law is very disturbing, reverend, and i think that through your leadership and my members and mr. crump and others, i think the whole country, the whole world, understands this is a classic case of racial profiling at it's worst. >> yeah, and you great members by the way. let me say -- ask you this. and put on your prosecutor hat. the police report says this. at no point did i question

zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. now, this is the policeman on the scene. this is what he said in his report. isn't that incredibly out of the normal? this is the guy on the scene responding to a call, there is a dead young boy on the ground. he didn't ask any questions? it's inexplicable. you want to ask questions and hear what he is saying very carefully. even if he is not responsive, it's highly unlikely he would say nothing at all. so it's crucial that the police pin him down for a story. whatever the story is, it's likely to be helpful for a justifiable shooting. >> before you get through with that being credible, when you get an answer sheet given by the chief, he says "when the sanford police department arrived at the scene of the incident, mr. zimmerman provided a statement

claiming he acted in self defense. so the officer on the seen said never talked to him or questioned him, but the police chief says he gave a statement. a complete blatant contradiction. >> as of today, nobody has come forward, and if they have any statement that indicates this credible view of the evidence that he justified, it would do us all a big favor if they came forward and told us what he said. at this moment, i don't think any reasonable person sees any credible view of the evidence to suggest that he was not the aggressor, he was not justified, and that an arrest based on probably cause should have been made then and there. >> so would you say there is a problem in that police department in sanford? >> there is more problems than you can count, and i would say it goes beyond because you also have the county state's attorney that played no roll in this. if they were so befuddled and

paralyzed by a straightforward case, where is the attorney to come in and say this is the law. this is a giant mispreexception of the law with a case like this, nobody can argue a credible view for justification. this is somebody being pursued and shot. what clarity do you need in a case like this. >> reverend holmes let me go to you, the op-ed today by dennis baxley that sponsored the law, he says it doesn't apply to the case. let me give you a quote so you can respond to it. baxley said "mr. zimmerman's unnecessary pursuit and confrontation of trayvon martin elevated the prospect of a violent episode and does not seem to be an act of

self-defense as defined by the castle doctrine". >> he wrote the law. >> i agree strongly. zimmerman does not have a moral or legal ground to stand on. i think once all of the evidence has been pieced together, he will be and should be arrested. >> reverend r.b. holmes, please come back and keep us posted, and certainly eugene o'donnell. ahead from coast to coast, americans are rallying for justice and rallies are breaking out all over the country. we'll tell you why the movement will not stop. i habe a cohd.

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in the words of trayvon's mother, this fight for justice isn't about a black or white thing. it's about a right or wrong thing. and the country is responding in a major way. today, hundreds of capitol hill staffers gathered on the steps for a hoodies on the hill rally. they wore their sweatshirts in the heat, and came with skittles and iced tea. hundreds of students in miami staged a group walk out calling for the shooter's arrest, and in

one school, students marked on the football field and formed the initials tm for trayvon martin. and last night 30,000 rallied with us in sanford. it was a great turnout. now rallies are spreading all over the country and people are rallying in places like attention and demonstrations are planned in more than 20 cities this weekend. clear signs just how far this outrage has spread. social media is also calling for justice. the petition at change.org has 1.5 million signatures. the facebook page honoring trayvon has more than 80,000 likes. monday night, we'll be back in sanford with trayvon's parents meeting with city leaders.

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experience love that lasts. i think every parent in america should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate this, and everybody pulls together to figure out how this tragedy happened. >> from the white house to houses across america, people are demanding justice for trayvon. right now justice lawyers are on the ground in sanford florida investigating potential civil rights violations in trayvon's death. they're trying to figure out if the killing was a hate crime. the shooting is just part of a

slew of racially charged cases in sanford. in 2010 a man was charged with beating two men, after video emerged it -- a police officer again shot and killed a black teen only to have charges against them dismissed. it has poisened the public trust against police as the city manager admitted today. >> this is a case about racist thugs that made a sport of attacking african-americans in sanford. >> joining me now is congressman steve corn from tennessee. he is a lawyer and former advisor.

he is also one of 14 lawmakers to attorney general eric holder to determine if this shooting qualifies as a federal rate crime. also with me, zachary carter from new york who i personally have consulted with from time to time. thanks for joining me tonight, congressman, let me start with you. do you think the justice department will have grounds to bring federal hate crime charges in this case? >> from what i have seen, the grounds are there, and the law is -- exactly the purpose of the law. when the local juris dix appears at first not to take action when they should, that they can come to it and see that justice is done -- there's no question this man had an obsession with young black men and trying to play he was a policeman himself. young trayvon martin did nothing. nothing. and he is dead.

and i think it shows other incidents that have happened around the nation. we have seen them in memphis, tennessee. a code inspector was killed and only got a second degree murder guilty plea in state court. the fbi looked at it and had seen that the man had killed a african-american 15 years earlier. it was a white man, killing a black man, chopping the body up and burying him across state lines. we had situations where a man said that a young black man, had a speeding traffic charge. they stopped him, medicated him, put a hood over him, restrained him, and claimed he died of a heart attack. it's not that way. i'm afraid there is a desperate system for justice for african-american males in the country. >> there's no doubt about that. let me ask you and get specific

on this case, mr. carter. you had talked about hate crime in a narrow boundaries of it, but this case may hinge on whether or not he used racial language. and before pursuing trayvon, he said something that has been raised as questionable as a very serious racial slur. tell me, if you were back as prosecutor, would you use this, and if so, how, if you had him in a courtroom on trial. >> down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood. >> which entrance is that that he is heading towards? >> the back entrance. [ bleep ]. >> now, you hear some tones that people feel that he is saying a

racial slur. and a profane word and a racial slur. we beeped it out here, but people think he used a slur that rimes with boon. i know the justice department will have to look at this. if you're in front of the jury, and you know the cases can be at least dealt a serious advantage if he did use the term, how do you use this, mr. carter? >> you have to get the original copy of the tape. you have to use whatever techniques are available to enhance that tape so the jury gets an opportunity to hear what was said, with the greatest clarity that's possible. and based on the excerpts that i've heard of the tape that have been broadcast in other places, i think it's clear that he used an unmistakable racial slur.

>> so if, in fact, as you suspect that he did, does that not bolster a case of a state of mind that could lead to a hate crime? >> it bolsters it, but it does not make it a slam dunk. people have always been in a state of denial over issues of race in this country. unless you're wearing a kkk suit and a cross -- >> when you look at the residents in sanford at the city council meeting on wednesday night, talking about the distrust of police in their city, look at this. >> the police department didn't do an adequate enough job because they used the law for them and against people that's a

minority. >> it seems as though the police department of sanford, or the city of sanford is condoning what is taking place here, and that's where the mistrust comes in. >> when i see a cop, i feel like i should hide. there is never no reason for me, never no justice served for me, a young black man in the city, and i feel that it should not be like that at all. >> i have seen a lot in this town. >> i have seen good changing but i have seen bad stuff. but i hoped that i would never see what i'm seeing now at the end of my life time. this to me is as close as we can come to jim crowe. >> congressman, it has to disturb you to see one after another after another talking about distrusting from the people when they should have the

most trust to protect them. >> it is disturbing because that's what a law enforcement officer's responsibility is, is to have trust. and if you don't have trust you can't have a good society. they're there to help people and see that the law is followed. and there is no trust in that community, and there is not trust in a lot of communities. and i think there needs to be a major discussion. bill clinton talked about having a discussion of race in this country. we still need that in a major way and it needs to take place. we had a apology for slavery with jim crowe, but not the moment to have that discussion. >> i have to break in, i'm sure you agree with that. >> i agree we need that conversation, but we need to talk about the biased aspects and the affinity aspects. there have been three incidents now where they have given an

inappropriate benefit of the doubt to people with a special relationship with the police department. >> keep on keeping on. >> thank you both, have a nice weekend, please. ahead. how george zimmerman may have corrupted the neighborhood program in order to play cop. and my thoughts, today, on today's emotional words from the president of the united states. stay with us. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if you took the top down on a crossover? if there were buttons for this? wouldn't it be cool if your car could handle the kids... ♪ ...and the nurburgring? or what if you built a car in tennessee that could change the world? yeah, that would be cool. nissan. innovation for today. innovation for tomorrow. innovation for all. ♪

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the national organization in charge of neighborhood groups say george zimmerman did not behave correctly, that's next. s and freshens breath. new tums freshers. ♪ tum...tum...tum...tum... tums! ♪ [ male announcer ] fast relief, fresh breath, all in a pocket sized pack. and i thought "i can't do this, it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. oh!

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♪ your curves. meet me in the coffee aisle. we're back with new debating about how trayvon martin's killer used and miss used the neighborhood watch program to advance his own obsession with law enforcement. last september, zimmerman invited sanford police department volunteer coordinators to come to talk to his community about forming a neighborhood watch. and zimmerman made sure he was elected coordinator of the group. the volunteer coordinator said she told zimmerman what he could and could not do. she showed him this slide saying they are not the vigilante police, acting as eyes and ears,

and they're supposed to report on suspicious activity, not act on it. joining me is the national director of the neighborhood watch program at the national sheriff's association. they developed the concept for neighborhood watch groups 40 years ago. thank you for being here tonight. >> glad to be here. >> now you have 25,000 neighborhood watch groups registered, but george zimmerman and the watch group at twin lakes was not registered. it certainly did not sound like he was following the standards that your group has established, does it? >> no, it certainly doesn't. one of the first things in the manual we created and on our website, the first thing we say is no weapons whatsoever. that includes mace, metal flash lights, and especially guns. >> so no weapons, no guns?

>> nothing, no. >> okay. >> our job as a neighborhood watch is to be the eyes and ears of the law enforcement. we make our phone calls and move on and let them do their job. >> so, and i'm looking at your guidelines, patrol members do not possess police power, and should not carry weapons as you said, patrol members should not try to apprehend a person, and each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority, am i correct in reading your guidelines. >> absolutely, absolutely. again, this is a common sense operation. and common sense tells you you're not trained to do those things and you should not be involved in them. >> so when zimmerman is projected by some as the head of a neighborhood watch group, not only was he not registered, but it gives the wrong image of what

real legitimate registered watch groups like the 25,000 under you really does and does not do. >> exactly right. we try very hard to keep the communications between the neighborhood watch group and law enforcement, they're partners, and we want them to be partners and be able to work together and come up with a solution for each neighborhood. locally, as well as regional. >> now, when you look at, let me show you some calls that zimmerman made. dozens of 911 calls on nonemergencies. march of 2005, he called pothole blocks the road. november 2006, vehicle driving real slow, blasting music. 2010, november, trash in the roadway. september 2011, open garage door. is this the kind of stuff you have neighborhood watch groups for? >> no, we're -- these are not

quality of life issues. these are issues that are annoyi annoying. and again, to call a law enforcement agency on something along those lines, if you call them 10, 12, 15 times, and it's a nonpriority call, what will happen on the 16th call? >> now, so this kind of personality is not only violating certain things in your guidelines, but there are certainly doing things that you don't think even falls within what the purpose of neighborhood watch is set up for? >> correct, correct. this is, when i first heard of this, it's horrific to begin with, but it certainly has no place in a neighborhood watch for anybody to be carrying a weapon. even if you have a concealed weapons permit, you don't have to right to be on neighborhood watch. >> thank you to chris tutko for joining me tonight. the tragedy on a rainy night 27

nights ago has swept across the country and to the white house. today the president spoke in personal terms about the death of trayvon martin. that's next. [ male announcer ] let's level the playing field.

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this tragedy is hitting home for millions of americans. few of us knew trayvon martin, but his tragedy cut right to our hearts. his parents reminded us all why the fight for justice is so important. >> i stand before you today not knowing how i'm walking right now. because my heart hurts for my son. trayvon is my son, trayvon is your son. >> i would just like to thank every one of you all for just showing us the love, the support, signing the petitions, and making sure that george

zimmerman pay for what he did to your son. >> yes, yes, our son. 17-year-old son, an innocent child whose death is now forcing us to hold a mirror up to our country. >> trayvon could have been any one of our sons. trayvon could have been any one of us. trayvon represents a reckless disregard for our lives that we have seen too long. and we come to tell you tonight enough is enough. we are tired of going to jail for nothing, and going home for something. >> today, president obama expressed what this tragedy means to our nation, and then he spoke with very personal words. >> i think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure

out how does something like this happen. my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. you know, if i had a son, he would look like trayvon. and, you know, i think they are right to expect that all of us, as americans, are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we're going to get to the bottom of what happened. >> think about it. right now in america, tonight, in some maternity ward, children of different races are being born. why had some be looked upon as citizens and others looked upon as suspects. i'm not naive enough to think we can change how people see us, but i am determined to make sure they cannot treat us differently. and when they do, they pay until we have a country where we are