welcome to "the ed show" tonight from new york. breaking news this evening in the trayvon martin case. video has surfaced from the night george zimmerman shot and kill trade von martin. abc news has obtained police surveillance of george zimmerman as he arrived at the police station after he was taken into custody. the video does not appear to show blood on the back of zimmerman's head or nose. the video show is no bruises on the back of his head. zimmerman had claimed trayvon martin punched him in the nose and slammed the back of his head into the ground. this police surveillance video shows zimmerman arriving at the station in the police cruiser. as you can see, zimmerman's head is clearly shaven. keep in mind that in the initial police report, officer tim smith said he could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been lying on his back on the ground. zimmerman was also bleeding from

the nose and the back of his head. the police report also said zimmerman was with attended to by medics at the scene of the crime, but as you can see, there are no bandages on zimmerman in this police surveillance video. it's been 32 days since the shooting of trayvon martin. i am joined tonight by "new york times" columnist, charles blow and darrell parks, an attorney for the family of trayvon martin. this is big. mr. blow, what do you make of this videotape? you have gone over the police report, you know it inside-out, does this video match up from what you have seen right here? >> it does not appear to match up with the description that is on the police report. and that is not the only problem that i see with the police report as it has been published. the police report includes -- jonathan capehart pointed this out -- includes trayvon martin's full name, date of birth, his redacted street address and

phone number. however, trayvon martin -- and that report was filed and closed, according to the report, on the night, february 27th at 3:07 in the morning. but the family says that trayvon martin's body was tagged as john doe. both those things can not be true. if you have all of his information, where he lives, his telephone number, he's not a john doe. now, the other thing -- the fishy part about that, there's a part on the police report that says, "is there a juvenile involved?" if you know that he is born on february 5th, 1995, you know he's 17 years old, that box should have been yes. it is no. i asked the family if they could verify somebody else, independent of them, could verify whether or not he was listed as a john doe because the medical examiner would not do it and the funeral parlor, out of

ft. lauderdale, florida, said they could not pick up that body for three days because it was listed as a john doe. >> so listed as a john doe, but it's very clear that police officials knew exactly who trayvon martin was? >> no, if he was listed as a john doe, that suggests that that information was added after that police report was complete. and if information about trayvon martin was added or adjusted after that police report was completed, that allows into question every single thing that is on that police report and what is original to that night and what may have been added later or adjusted. that is the question now. >> all right. let's look at this videotape. and i want you to look at the screen there. timothy smith was the officer that said this, "while i was in such close contact with with zimmerman, i could observe that his back appeared to be wet and he was covered in grass, as if he had been lying on his back on the ground.

zimmerman was also pleading from the nose and the back of his head." now, obviously, he had seen medics, he had been attended to, but there is no bandage there. which you can draw your own conclusion. but the videotape does not show, i guess you could say, a broken nose. do you think it does? >> it doesn't show it to me. and i think these are now the questions that have to be answered in a pressing fashion. is -- can we make this video line up with this police report and is this police report the original report in all of its entirety that was filed that night or has anything been changed, adjusted, or added in relation to this police report? >> let's go to the attorney for the family, one of the attorneys for the family, darrell parks. mr. parks, the state attorney says she might have a decision before the grand jury is convened. what have you heard? and first of all, i want to get your impressions of this videotape that has been released tonight.

>> it's very clear, as you see mr. zimmerman get out of the police cruiser, he -- i mean, look at the courtesy that they give him. he gently gets out and they talk like old friends, they gently search him. they're not pressed about this guy. but focus -- i think you focused on the back. he is nothing on his back, nothing on his head. he doesn't appear to be hurt. from what we've heard recently, they said he bashed his head in, he was being beaten down, where he fell, feared for his life. does this look like a guy who was just beaten down within the last hour or so? no, he doesn't. >> now, you've read the police report, i'm sure. match that up with what you're seeing in this videotape. >> it doesn't match. i mean, you don't see the damages to him that they claim. and so, it really draws into question all the things that's in that report right now. and that's why we're calling for a thorough investigation. >> well, last night on this

program, mr. march, you alleged witness tampering in this case. can you please explain exactly what you meant by that? >> well, there are at least one or two witnesses, one, specifically, indicated that one of the investigators were talking to them, turned the recorder off, talked to them some, and then turned the recorder on. in one of the instances, one of the witnesses who says when they were describing who was making the sounds, they describe, no, you didn't hear trayvon martin, that was george zimmerman crying out for help. so those type of issues are of concern. they're the type of issues that we have asked the florida department of law enforcement to look into, and the fbi. >> if you're in a courtroom, are you going to subpoena and bring forward these police officers who were attending to mr. zimmerman right there? >> of course. >> can and what would you ask them? >> well, i'll have the -- number one, i'll have them explain to me, they wrote down in the report that he had debris on his back, a spot on his back from being on the ground.

and as you with see when he turns around, at the back of the cruiser, he doesn't have anything on his back. it's rather clear. so when you look at his head, there doesn't appear to be any blows to the back of his head. they claim that his head had been beaten in. look at it, it's clean. there's nothing there. nothing whatsoever. so that's a problem. that's a problem. and it clearly shows that the officers that assisted him on that night -- i mean, look, they are standing there. y'all, have you ever seen a person who just killed someone who could just stand there on his own, who's going to casually walk into the station? it doesn't happen. >> i have to say that i've never seen anyone who was been brought into a station before. this is the first time i've ever seen anybody brought into a station who has just shot and killed somebody. so this is new to me, unless i saw some tv drama. it is rather casual. charles blow, what do you think? >> i can't speak to the kind of casual nature.

like you say, i've never seen anybody who's killed anybody before. but there is no visible signs of any sort of flinching, any sort of pain, which is what you would expect for somebody with a broken nose. as the attorney said before, you would expect some sort of swelling, some sort of bandaging, something, as if his attorney and friend has been saying, that the wounds on the back of his head were so severe, they should have required stitches, but they have healed on their own. >> how does it change the dynamics of the case when the lead investigator wanted to bring charges? what was told by the state's attorney, stand down. we don't think we have enough for a conviction.

what do you make of that? >> i think that that all folds into the ongoing investigation. because now we have to figure out from the state attorney general's office why that took place. and that's what we don't know. did they feel like they needed to build a stronger case, but he's still free. so i don't know what it is about that, but we don't know that yet. >> are there any times on this police report, mr. parks, that you take exception to? are there any discrepancies that jump out at you on this police report, whether it be the timing or what's being reporting? >> well, no times come to mind. however, the times that we believe are very important in this case are the times that trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend, when he was on the phone with her, for about four minutes and was talking to her and describing that he was being chased by this vigilante gentleman, mr. zimmerman. as he got off the phone with her, the sanford police was on the scene within one minute. so it's very clear to us that trayvon's version of the story supported by the phone records that we have put into the public domain.

>> and there seems to be a right-wing media campaign to defend george zimmerman. what do you think's going on here? >> well, i want to believe -- i believe in america. i believe in our government. i believe in the media and that process. i think that, unfortunately, the style of some people is to take some small piece of information and to declare that it has some type of value to the case in chief, when it doesn't. it has nothing to do with what happened between mrs. zimmerman and trayvon on the night of february 26th. so we have to stay focused on what the facts are. anyone who would bring any issue, that has no bearing on the conduct between these two individuals on the night in question is not relevant. >> and i want to go back to the listing of the deceased as a john doe. what's your response to that? >> well, you know, there's no reason for that. because if he was a john doe, why would they put his name on the report almost five hours later? some type of way they knew within five hours that who he was, they should have told the parents, or they came and added his information after the fact

and were begging the question, the authenticity of this document. >> and what kind of shaky legal ground would that put the police department in sanford in? some type of negligence? >> well, it raises all types of questions about, one, the professionalism of this particular organization and how they conduct their investigations. >> do you know when the police chief found out that there was a kid that had been shot and killed? >> i really don't know. >> so you don't know when the police chief found out? he may have engaged that night or the next day or the next morning? >> well, certainly, as knowing protocol in this situation, i'm sure he was notified immediately of a murder within his jurisdiction. >> but what reason would they have for listing the deceased as a john doe when they clearly knew who he was? >> well, i really don't know. it's very hard to say, except for, we now know that there was a close working relationship between george zimmerman and this police department.

it was rather clear -- >> and i want you to elaborate on that. >> well, a few things. number one, with one of the piece of information that's out in the public domain that's being reported today is that the homeowner's association listed george zimmerman as the captain of this particular neighborhood watch. so that existed. and it actually indicated that, you know, to the extent that if you couldn't reach the police department to notify george zimmerman if there was some incident that needed to be reported to the police. so it was a pretty good close working relationship between the two. >> if you're just joining us here on "the ed show," you're watching video obtained by abc news. this is video in the policehouse in sanford, florida, the night george zimmerman shot and killed trayvon martin. and it really ises as many questions as it does give answers. charles below, darrel parks, great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much.

coming up, more on the explosive video in the trayvon martin case. we'll ask a retired police chief what he thinks of the video. we'll also bring in reverend jesse jackson for his thoughts on tonight's development. stay with us.

coming up, the reverend jesse jackson weighs in tonight's major developments in the trayvon martin case. we'll also get the opinion of the retired police chief, walter glisgo. he's now a private investigator. stay with us. [ male announcer ] what if an entire car insurance company was thought up and built and run to save people money? what if that company was born online, with tools and apps to make people feel like geniuses? and what if that company was now backed by the stability and reliability of allstate? well, what if that company was esurance and this wasn't just a bunch of hypothetical questions? could be cool-ish. esurance. insurance for the modern world. click or call.

welcome back to "the ed show." breaking news tonight in the trayvon martin case.

abc news has obtained video of george zimmerman being taken into the police department after he was detained by sanford police. joining me by phone is walter zalisko, president and ceo of global investigative group and a retired police chief. mr. zalisko, thank you for your time tonight. you're on the phone with us and you're looking at the videotape. from what you can see, how does this videotape square with the initial police report that was filed and released on monday? >> well, first of all, good evening. hi. yeah, i'm looking at the videotape, and it clearly isn't consistent with what the police report reflects. i mean, the police report does state that they observe a wetness on the back of his jacket and grass stains. well, we can't really see if there's any wetness on the back of that jacket. there clearly could be. but what we can observe is that there are no signs of any serious injuries. you do see a police officer

looking at the back of his head at some point in this video, to indicate there may be a small abrasion. all right, there's no blood coming from his face or his nose area. i don't observe any blood splatter on his shirt or jackets. that's not to say that there's maybe a drop or two, but you don't have the quantity of blood to reflect a serious injury. you've got to remember that he's claiming self-defense, so there are three important facts that really have to be proven in any self-defense claim. is that, one, the danger or threat was imminent, and, two, is that he reasonably believed he would be harmed and that he reasonably responded to that danger. you know, the if the guy scratches his head when he falls on the ground, does that believe that he's going to die? does he really believe that?

>> i'm going to look at this videotape again. that officer on the left of zimmerman right there opened up his jacket to see if there was anything in there or -- it's almost as if he hadn't done it before. if we can roll the videotape back, i think that that is more than interesting, that here he is, we're isolating, you can see his head. there doesn't appear to be any kind of damage to his head and clearly his head isn't bleeding. but, of course, this is after -- but here's the videotape that i find interesting. the police officer goes to him, face to face, right here, and now he's going to put his right hand on his chest and open up his shirt, open up his jacket. what do you -- as if he's searching him for the first time. what do you make of that, mr. zalisko? >> well, obviously, i hope that the police conducted a search at the scene, to see if he possibly may have anymore weapons on him.

but the problem i have with this search here is that the officer's handling that jacket, and if they're placing that jacket into evidence for any possible dna evidence that they can find, he's contaminating that whole jacket, you know, by moving his hands inside and out and about that jacket. >> well, i want to see the videotape again. because it looks to me like the police officer is putting his hands in the pockets of george zimmerman, to see if he's got anything in his pockets. and then after -- is that -- i mean, wouldn't he have done that on the scene? >> well, you would think so, you know. but maybe this is another officer transporting. you know, i don't know if this is the same officer who initially responded. you know, when the officers arrive at the scene, they can hand off the prisoner to another officer to do the transport to headquarters.

so this officer could be just, you know, covering himself to make sure he doesn't have any objects that could be used with as a weapon. >> all right. he's checking his pockets right there, he's going on the inside. now he goes around on the back and he touches the backside of zimmerman and then he seems to wipe his hands on his own pants right there. do you see that? >> yeah. well, that would indicate that it's probably wet, that the back of the jacket has some moisture on it >> how troubling is this videotape, mr. zalisko? >> well, it's troubling in the fact that mr. zimmerman doesn't reflect the injuries, you know, that would be consistent with somebody who is just fearing for his life and had to, you know, kill somebody to defend himself. i mean, you know, this looks like -- i mean, i don't know how to describe it. it just doesn't look consistent. >> now, i said earlier on this broadcast that i've never seen anybody taken into a police house, a police station after shooting somebody. is this normal? i mean, is this -- i mean, does this look like they know the guy or is this standard operating

procedure here? >> well, i think, you know, most of the police officers probably do know mr. zimmerman for the simple fact that he was the so-called patrol captain of the neighborhood watch and he's had over 140 phone calls to the police. so you do form some type of a relationship. and being that he was a cop, there was no doubt that he would be associating with some of these guys. but the way they're bringing him in, that's normal procedure. there's nothing unusual about that. >> is it normal procedure for the police officers not to have gloves on? and to be going -- you said that he may have contaminated that jacket. >> well, that's what i'm saying. they should have had the plastic gloves on if they're going to do any search. you know, even if they're searching for a weapon, you know, any smart officer would realize that they're going to be taking this jacket in as evidence. and they just contaminated it by placing their hands all over it, possibly smearing something.

>> so you say that this videotape is not consistent with the police report and the injuries that were reported. i want to bring back "new york times" columnist charles blow and also darrell parks, an attorney for the family of trayvon martin. mr. parks, now that you have heard walter zalisko's opinion of this, how do you feel about what you've just heard and consumed this video? >> well, one point he made about the officer touched his back and then touched his pants, it looks to me, though, once we see the back of mr. zimmerman as he's walking away, it doesn't look wet to me. so why he may have touched his pant could be any reason, but it doesn't look like his back is wet to me. i also want to point out, as he was getting out of the car, he really didn't appear to be a guy who had injury and had been beaten down just recently. he seemed to get out and not be in any stress. i really question whether or not mr. zimmerman really suffered

the injuries they say he did. >> i'm curious as to what time this is taking place as opposed to the time of the shooting. mr. blow? >> the thing that strikes me most is what the officer was talking about earlier, which is that noses bleed. noses bleed even if you don't break them. noses bleed if you get hit hard enough in your nose. if you get hit hard enough in the nose that it bleeds, and zimmerman has on a light-colored shirt, one would think that you would see some evidence of some blood, somewhere on that shirt. also. his shirt's tucked in. does not seem like a person who's just been in a fight. you know, there are little things, little bits of evidence here that you look at and you think, someone needs to explain how all these things can be and the police report still be true. >> mr. parks, i want to ask you, what do you make of walter zalisko, who is a former police chief and a private investigator now saying that the videotape

does not stay consistent with the report? >> well, i think he's totally right. i think it's inconsistent and that, certainly, we're now seeing more video evidence to support the fact that this report by this department was incorrect. and so, it create vns more questions, more doubt in the investigation in the sanford police department and this really screams that this special report really has to go and go step by step and make sure that we uncover all the evidence in this case, because clearly it's not in favor of george zimmerman. >> daryl parks, charles blow, and walter zalisko, thank you for your time tonight. up next, reverend jesse jackson will join me.

welcome back to "the ed show." the death of trayvon martin has evolved into one of the biggest civil rights issues of our times when it comes to justice. yet one former civil rights leader is using the issue. he's using the issue to accuse sharpton and jackson of exploiting trayvon. he questioned the credibility of both sharpton and jackson

calling them "race hustlers." brian also said that trayvon martin's family, quote, should be outrage at the fact that they're using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions. bryant believes that both sharpton and jackson are, quote, acting as though they are buzzards, circling the carcass of this young boy. rather shocking. let's bring in reverend jesse jackson, president of the rainbow push coalition. reverend, good to have you with us tonight. i need for you to respond to this accusation of this former naacp official. your thoughts on what is being levied against you and reverend sharpton? >> well, we really shouldn't dignify it. it is not true. it's a diversion from the fact that a man was disobedient to an appeal by 911 to not pursue trayvon. he did pursue him. he did kill him. and i'm seeing a really

revealing tape, which is the real issue tonight, it's not the issue of reverend sharpton. it's the case that you have two stories. there seems there has been some tampering. no bloodshed, no bandages. and people have heard he was taken to the hospital, no blood, no bandage. and an awesome friendship. this is so casual, considering the guy had just killed someone, because he's their friend. >> reverend, i want to go back to you. you've been labeled a race hustler. i need you to respond to that. you have been down this road many times. you've dedicated your life to advocacy work and civil rights work. you're on the forefront of the civil rights movement. yet someone, pastor c.l. bryant, is accusing both you and al sharpton of exploiting the death of this young man. you must have some response to that? >> well, the reason i'm so dismissive of it, ed, is because

it yet another diversion from the point that, a, it is not true. we're both at there at the appeal of the parents and the lawyer. the issue, if we did not go to the rescue, so others are going to katrina, fighting to free mandela, fighting for the right to vote. when dr. king led the marches, ed, in birmingham, and young americans went to jail, they accused him of exploiting the youth. and so these name callings by someone always seem to come, but they should never take our eyes off the real prize. it's unfortunate, but you can't dignify it, really. >> well, he says that the family should be outraged that you're using this child as bait to inflame racial passions. i mean, do you know this pastor? >> i do not know him. i have never heard of him before.

and it's interesting, if the family asked for help and we did not respond, that would be outrageous. and you know, while the killing of trayvon is not unique, it's fairly common, as it unfolded here, trayvon being john doe as it unfolded, in an attempt to take his life, not take his reputation, everything about this has inflamed the whole world. it's not just about reverend sharpton. the whole world has look at this and said, something about this reflects upon america and the way that americans -- the president's had to speak to it. the congress has had to speak to it. the competitors for the office of republican has had to speak to it. this is unignorable. if you ignore it, it would be a sin, and accuse those that the family would support is just unfortunate. >> and reverend, how big is this story in comparison to some of

the other injustices that you have been associated with or advocated for in your lifetime, where people have needed assistance? i mean, is this the civil rights story, the injustice of the 24-hour news cycle? there have been a lot of injustices, but we go back to the rodney king beating, which was some 20 years ago. what about this? >> it's one of these transformative moments, potentially. you know, emmett till killed and in three weeks, those who killed him were tried and a six or seven-minute deliberation. it would have been longer, but they stopped to get a pop. and they thought he was guilty, except that the crime did not warrant the killer going to jail. and yet mrs. parks asked one day, why did you not go back? emmett till one of those defining moments. no arrest, a defining moment. i think that trayvon's case is one of those, if you tie a bow tie to the hoodie and inspire

the younger generation to fight back for justice and overcome racial disparities and therefore heal in racial healings, it is a very positive moment we take out of this crucifixion a kind of resurrection with new hope. there's a dialogue taking lace now that could ruin the good for all of us. >> i want to play the videotape. and i want to get your response. this is the videotape of george zimmerman coming into the sanford police house, just a short time after shooting and killing trayvon martin. what's your impressions of the videotape? >> well, first, the casualness of it. the man just killed someone. but no bloody head, no bloody nose, and as the chief said, the officer patting him down rather casually could be leaving his fingerprint on the evidence, the wet back. but it's so different, the report that we heard. i mean, where is -- since they know who trayvon martin was, why john doe?

why keep him in the morgue for three days away from his family? everything about him. but this, the same police department where a homeless black man was beaten severely and the beater walked away. happened to be, however, a son of one of the police, who's still on the force, by the way. so this looks like tampering. >> if martin luther king were alive today, would he be in florida at these rallies? >> absolutely, just as he was at the funeral. he would be there. jesse was at a graduation of little rock nine. he would be there. it's one of those teachable moments for america. let's learn and get the best out of it. this is a new south, we must not let our dreams be destroyed by this act of criminality. >> reverend jesse jackson, thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. coming up, former florida congressman alan grayson reacts to tonight's developments in the trayvon martin case.

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welcome back to "the ed show." breaking news in the trayvon martin case tonight. abc news has obtain video of george zimmerman being brought into the police department on the night he shot and killed trayvon martin. i am joined by alan grayson, former florida congressman, who is from the orlando area. congressman, good to have you with us tonight. you have -- you have been at these rallies for trayvon all week and have been paying close attention to the case. what are your impressions of this police house videotape that was obtained tonight? >> well, i think it blows apart the zimmerman argument that he was acting out of fear rather than out of hatred. but i'll tell you, i sometimes wonder why people think that's some kind of good defense. i don't believe it in his case. i think if you call someone "f'ing coon" then you're animated by nothing but hatred. but somehow he thinks if he says he feared, that excuses the death of a young boy. it doesn't.

if you did the crime, you have to do the time. >> do you believe that this tape is inconsistent with the police report? >> yes, i've read the police report, i saw the tape, and i think there is an inconsistent. >> and what would you be thinking right now if you were representing the martin family in this case? >> i think that it proves their point. this is someone who zimmerman should under no circumstances be allowed to have a gun. it should have been taken from him a long time ago. and he should have been arrested a long time ago. he should have been tried and it looks to me like he's going to be convicted. >> and alan, what do you make of the police report and the listing of the deceased as a john doe? the timing of the report, when it was put together and then released. there are many more questions here than answers, are there not? >> i think so. but, honestly, i don't find much fault in what the police did, except for the fact that he

hasn't been arrested yet. zimmerman should have been arrested. that's the main fly in the ointment at this point. nobody who does anything like that should be allowed to walk the streets. >> are you bothered by the casualness of this videotape and how one of the officers seems to be searching the pockets of george zimmerman? >> it bothers me to see zimmerman acting as if nothing had happened. he killed a 17-year-old boy. he stalked and killed a 17-year-old boy. and it's appalling to me to see the kind of casualness that that video displays. >> do you know the state's attorney wolfinger, who recommended that they not press charges and told the lead investigator at the time not to go down that road? >> no. it's a terrible mistake and the law really does not give them the excuse to do that. they're referring to what's known as the hold your ground or stand your ground law, which i often refer to as the shoot to kill law. that's a law that led to a tripling -- a tripling -- in so-called justifiable homicides in florida from the year it was enacted all the way to the present.

it's a bad law, but it does not apply to this situation. it does not apply to chasing after someone and shooting them in the chest. >> would that be hard to prove with the stand your ground law as maybe something that the zimmerman team would use as a defense? >> listen, juries figure out that sort of thing and things way more complicated that than kind of thing all the time. there's no way that zimmerman can argue that he was simply standing his ground. that law was meant to apply to people who were in their homes, maybe in their cars, not someone who was literally chasing someone around the neighborhood and then killing him. >> and what do you make of the right-wing smear campaign that has been fostered by some on the right that, you know, this kid was suspended from school and he was somewhat troublesome, in defense of the actions of george zimmerman? >> i think it shows that many on the right wing have a taste of blood in their mouths. they kind of like the idea of vigilanteism, and this is

perfect case for them. >> and the stand your ground law, it went into effect in 2005. there have been 93 cases, 65 deaths. do you sense that this is a turning point in this country that maybe these kinds of laws will be repealed, or to you see more of them coming? because we all know that well-reported alec and also the nra have been pushing these laws on legislative sessions around this country. >> i think it's a turning point that's far more profound than that. i think we have to start hating each other and we have to start cherishing our differences. the very notion that you would feel fear or hatred towards a boy that you never met in your entire life simply because he's black is appalling. i thought we moved past that. it was almost 50 years ago that martin luther king said he hoped his children would be judged that way, not by the color of their skin, and we're still waiting for that to come. >> alan grayson, thank you for your time tonight here on the ed show. i know you wanted to talk about

health care tonight. we'll have you back to talk about that at a later time. tonight, major developments today in the fight over health care, and mitt romney makes one of the biggest mistakes of his campaign. there's a lot more to get to. stay with us.

coming up, mitt romney tells jay leno that if you're 45 and have a bad heart, you're out of luck when it comes to health insurance. jonathan alter is on his way. stay with us.

debate over the obama administration's health care plan continued for a third day in the supreme court. republicans are giddy over the prospect of the law being overturned. so what's their plan to ensure 50 million americans and provide affordable health insurance for all? the answer is, they have no problem. mitt romney made it clear last night on "the tonight show" with jay leno. >> people can own their own insurance as they go from job to job. they won't have to worry about

getting a condition that would keep them from getting insured. >> what about pre-existing conditions? i know people that could not get insurance up until this obama care, and now they're covered and their pre-existing condition is covered. >> yeah. >> for me, that -- and children also. it seems like children and people with pre-existing conditions should be covered. >> yeah. well, people who have been continuously insured, let's say someone's had a job for a while and insured and then they get real sick and they happen to lose a job or change a job, they say, gosh, i have a pre-existing condition, i can't get insurance, as long as you've been continuously insured, you should be able to get insured >> "as long as." notice his choice of words. they don't care about the uninsured. romney's argument about continuing coverage is completely empty and jay lebno called him out on it. >> people with pre-existing conditions, as long as they've been insured before, they'll be able to continue to have insurance.

>> suppose they've never been insured. >> if they're 45 years old and they show up and say, i want insurance, because i have heart disease, we say, hey, guys, we can't play the game like that. >> but there are a lot of people -- i only mention it because i know guys that were in the auto industry, and they're just not covered because they work in brake dust, so they've just never been able to get insurance. then they get to be 30, 35, they were never able to get insurance before, now they have it. that seems like a good thing. [ applause ] >> we'll look at a circumstance where someone was ill and hasn't been insured so far. but people who have had the chance to be insured, if you're working in an auto business for instance, the company carries insurance, they cover all their employees. but people who have done their best to get insured are going to be able to get covered. >> so in other words, romney is picking winners and losers. only people who have "done their best" are the ones getting insurance. for everyone else, sorry, mitt romney says, you're out, you're on your own. this isn't just mitt romney's position, with my friends.

this is the republican party's position. you want to vote for them? for months, senate republican leader mitch mcconnell said the gop wants to repeal and replace what they call obama care. but mcconnell recently told bloomberg.com that they don't have any plans to replace, only to repeal. "we would want to more modestly approach health care with more incremental fixes, not a massive republican alternative." the health care law has already stopped discrimination against children with pre-existing conditions. by 2014, it will extend to all adults. republicans like tea party senator jim demint, they want to turn back the clock. >> i can guarantee you people with pre-existing conditions are going to get less health care, lower quality health care under obama care, than they would under a state-run plan. >> do you think they can get less health care under obama care than they did before obama care was enacted? >> they probably will. it will definitely cost more, for everyone, and it will be inefficient and it won't be as patient-focused.

>> i have to ask you tonight, senator, are you speaking from experience with that plan you have in the congress? i doubt it. if the supreme court strikes down the affordable care act, health care will be in the lap of the republicans. yes, they will own it and we'll have no progress. they have no plans for the uninsured in this country. they don't care about people who can't afford it. it's shameful, but mitt romney seems almost proud of his position. here's what he told conservative radio talker, the low-rated hugh hewitt, the other day. >> the president's campaign manager said that you are the godfather of obama care. if that's who you are, can you make the democrats an offer they can't refuse to repeal it? >> that's a great idea. if i'm the godfather of this thing, that gives me the right to kill it. and if i'm the president, i will get rid of obama care, i'll stop it in its tracks and get it repealed. >> i don't think romney understands what a godfather actually does. here's another godfather who sounds more like mitt romney when it comes to the health care plan romney is offering to america.

>> you can have my answer now if you like. my offer is this -- nothing. >> that sounds a lot more like mitt romney. the republicans are going to nominate someone who has no idea about the struggles of regular americans. romney doesn't go day to day, worrying about how he's going to pay for his health care costs. he never has. he has no clue. and he doesn't seem to give a damn. when we come back, msnbc political analyst jonathan alter joins me to talk about the republican health care disaster. stay tuned. [ male announcer ] it seems like every company

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and in the big finish tonight, well, it's been three days of arguments in the supreme court, pleading the case that america must keep this health care bill or the mandate must go. welcome back to "the ed show." let's turn to jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst and bloomberg view columnist. what jumps out at you after three days? >> well, you know, there's been this sense on the part of a lot of the analysts that the questioning has been especially tough for the solicitor general and the assistant solicitor general and that the government is very much on the defensive. the obama administration is looking at a very tough road. i would caution on that, because there have been some recent

cases where the conservative justices were very tough in their questioning and then it came back an 8-to-1 decision upholding a case that they had seemed to up end. but you cannot underestimate how conservative this court is. and it should not surprise anybody at all if in june they do something that has not been done in 70 years, which is to invalidate the centerpiece of a american president's domestic program, which they did to franklin roosevelt in the 1930s, and they are poised to possibly do again. so this is big, historical stuff that is on the table now. >> and if they allow the mandate to stay in place, what does it say about a conservative supreme court siding with the law? >> well, if they do that, then i think, politically, it will take some of the sting out of the attacks on obama care.

which, by the way, the obama folks are now calling it obama care too. so it's not a slur anymore. >> just easier to call it that. >> yeah, easier. so if that were to happen, it would make it much harder for conservatives to argue that somehow this was this terrible threat to the republic. >> and the republicans clearly don't have a plan, and that was shown on jay leno's program last night. how damaging was romney comment about the 45-year-old guy who just can't walk in and get insurance if he has a heart problem and hasn't had insurance before? >> you know, romney is so compromised by the fact that he started what became obama care in massachusetts. >> which is popular. >> which is working, it's popular, and so he's twisted up like a pretzel trying to explain why it's not good enough for the country. he even recommended it for the united states at the time he was governor of massachusetts. so for him to say he didn't think it was good for the whole cub is not true.