that god has given him. that's "hardball" for now, "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politicsnation." the more we learn the more curious it gets. the mayor of sanford, said he had to override the prosecutors and the police department to get the 911 tapes released. it could be critical. everyone was saying to me no, no, no, don't turn them over. i just continuously asked why wouldn't we do that. we're not here to hide anything. >> we're not here to hide anything, but the more we find out it seems like we're tried to hide something. 18 days ago, bill lee said this.

>> mr. zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense. until we can establish probably cause to dispute that, we don't have the grounds to arrest him. >> there is not enough probably cause to make an arrest? what would police have heard to make them think there was not probably cause. we have a 911 tape, we have an unarmed teenager shot to death. and now a new eyewitness has come forward. >> i saw two men on the ground, one on top of each other. i'm thinking something really horrible is happening. they were scuffling, and then i heard the gunshots. the larger man got off, then there was a boy, obviously now dead, on the ground facing down.

after the shots, obviously someone -- the man got up, he didn't appear hurt or anything else. >> he didn't appear hurt or anything else. he certainly didn't look hurt 35 minutes later when he arrived at the police station, and another key piece could come from the funeral districter that prepared trayvon's body. >> there was no physical signs like there had been a scuffle or fight. you know, the hands, i didn't see any knuckles, bruises, or what have you. and that is something we would have covered up if it had been there. the story just does not make sense that he was in this type of a scuffle, or fight, and there was nothing that we could see. >> no physical signs of a fight.

no cuts on trayvon's neck or face. but zimmerman and his family tell a different story. here is george's brother breaking his silence. >> he was out of breath, barely conscious, the last thing he remembers is is moving his head from the concrete to the grass so if he was banged one more time he would not be in diapers for the rest of his life. >> how does the brother know? this does not look like a man fighting for his life 35 minutes ago. the police report says that zimmerman complied with all of the officers verbal commands. the same report says that zimmerman was given first aid by the sanford fire department and cleared by medical personal aned

was released. it's been 33 days, there needs to be an arrest. we never said zimmerman should be convicted. that would be wrong. but they gave him an instant acquittal. that's wrong. what could possibly justify letting this man go? since day one, we have just asked for police to arrest george zimmerman and let the justice system play it out and look at the evidence. joining me now is eugene o'donne o'donnell, and we we have a former prosecutor, and an msnbc political analyst and georgetown professor. thank you all for being here tonight. now, eugene, the mayor had to fight to get the 911 tapes

released. do you think they're hiding something, or is this normal? >> there is nothing about this case that is normal. the chief says on the tape that you played that he had no evidence to dispute the account that mr. zimmerman gave. we're seeing there was a very rich layer of evidence that strongly suggested no justification. and the idea they would not release the tapes, for what reason would they not? they're vital to showing the deliberation, the mind-set, the determination of mr. zimmerman in this case. >> you would think that maybe someone in the police department didn't want to release the tapes because they dispel self defense and that was the basis they let him go on. >> that's clearly an additional piece of evidence that if they had probably cause to make an

arrest at the scene. it may be a surprise to many people, reverend, but i looked at that tape when they brought the shooter to the police station, and he was in handcuffs. you know what that means? he was placed under arrest at the scene. they had to know they had probably cause at the scene. he was marched out of the police car in handcuffs. he was marched down the hallway in handcuffs, and unless they were finishing at the police academy that you cannot unarrest once you make an arrest in florida, they had to know the proper procedure and book him into the jail. >> this is fascinating. they handcuff him and bring him in but they don't pick him, or fingerprint him. how do you unarrest him? if they went through all of the

preliminary steps of the arrest, why didn't they complete it, and who would have the authority, and what would be the reasoning to undo a process they already started? >> well, the bottom line is in a he was arrested as far as i can see. there's no dispute about that. somebody at that police department made a decision not to go through normal procedure, not book him into the jail or fill out an affidavit. it doesn't matter that they released him. he was under arrest and under the florida rules of criminal procedure, he has been charged within 175 days from the day of that arrest, otherwise he is forever barred with being charged with a crime in this case. it is clear there is an incompetence going on at this police department. i'm astounded they released him without booking him into the jail. >> you couldn't be arrested for

a dui, blow a 0.0, and then be unarrested. >> this is interesting, if he is not charged within 175 days, he can never be charged. they're going to argue that they, by florida law call that an arrest. which means our demands for an arrest even becomes more important. because if the clock ticks, he is gone, he is out of this because they never charged him within the time limit in florida of him being handcuffed. >> that's breaking news on your show. i've never heard that this man was arrested, brought out in handcuffs, and you're right. this is is stunning and astonishing. a man who was in handcuffs,

brought to the station, is set free without explanation. and the suggestion that if he is not arrested again or brought back within 170 days then he is free of the charge and cannot be rearrested is even more of than inspiration and motivation to get justice done. we're not talking about trying him in the court of public opinion. we're talking bt due process. if we have to go to this extreme and this extent to get him arrested, what more has to be done? this is a botched job from the beginning and i hope that the justice department takes note of all of this to make sure that trayvon martin in death will get more justice than he did in life. >> eugene, let me go back to you, and ken, i want you to weigh in on this. probably cause, what constitutes probably cause at a crime scene. let me give you some of the

elements. zimmerman was armed, he was not brought to the hospital for injuries. there's enough there to charge him and enough to constitute probable cause. he can argue i was handcuffed and the clock starts. this is amazingly, to me, looking like there is a real game being played on the public. >> if you apply this kind of standard, the victim is a teenager, laying dead, the shooter makes a cursory claim of self-defense, there may or may not be a injury, there's a tremendous trail of evidence i think readily available to give you probable cause. the framing of the fact -- this framing by the police that just

waiving the claim of self-defense suffices, and stop there, there is a injury so you take his account -- and you don't find the evidence, but it's readily available, it's a low standard, 51% we like to say. >> time has gone on, can they still make a case? has evidence been lost? >>. >> clearly as time goes on it becomes more and more difficult but there's plenty of evidence in this case. this is not a trial at this point where someone has to be proven at a standard beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt. this is a much, much lower standard called probable caused. and there is ample evidence for an arrest to be made in this case and for charges to be brought by a grand jury indictment or by information from a prosecutor. there's no doubt in my mind that

lower standard of probable cause is present. >> from the beginning of this when we got involved on this show and me with my civil rights activities, we called for an arrest. clearly you can't say what you want him charged with or that you believe that he is guilty or not guilty. all we said is an arrest. others said you're rushing to judgment. there's no rush to judgment, we're saying there's probable cause. yet it seems those supporting him are trying to acquit him without them seeing the evidence or seeing anything at all. so while they're talking about rush to judgment, we're just saying there is probably caused. the other side is saying he did no wrong without any review of the evidence. >> it's a failure of due process. we don't know what courts are to do. they're to adjudicate. they're to deal with competing claims. some said he did some say he

didn't. what's the narrative, where is the story? what where is the circumstantial evidence. all we're asking for is for this to be brought before the proper judicial authority to be viewed in due process and to allow justice to be done. as you're saying, you can't acquit a man if he has not been charged because we have to see the evidence that that charge has been predicated. it's frustrating that we cannot get this man arrested. >> thank you, gentlemen, for a fascinating conversation. have a good weekend. >> thank you. >> ahead, who is george zimmerman, a disturbing new picture of him is emerging as a former coworker described him as

jekle and hyde. the martin lawyer lawyer responds to the self-defense claim next. and the smear campaign against trayvon martin has reached a new lou. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. [ johan ] hello, piper. nice up-do. i see you're crunching numbers with a cup of joe... when you could be relaxing with a delicious gevalia. or as i like to say, a cup of johan. joe's a cubicle. johan is a corner office with a young, eager assistant... who looks like me. put johan on your spreadsheets. he'll watch your bottom line. [ johan ] gevalia. meet me in the coffee aisle.

george zimmerman's family comes to his defense saying his life was in danger. martin family lawyer ben crump responds, next. from the crack, off the backboard. [ laughs ] dad! [ laughs ] whoo! oh! you're up! oh! oh! so close! now where were we? ok, this one's good for two. score!

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we're back on "politicsnation" with the george zimmerman defense. we have not heard from george, but his brother and father are coming to his defense. joining me now to respond is ben crump, the martin family's attorney. >> thank you for having us. >> i want to play some things and let you respond because they have been all through the media and i would love for you to give your response on behalf of the family. first you have george zimmerman's father talking about trayvon had said -- let me let him speak for himself. this is the father on george

zimmerman. >> george is trying to get off of the concrete and on to the grass. his firearm was shown. trayvon martin said something to the effect of you're going to die now, or you're going to die tonight. how do you respond to that? >> there's more to that tape. he says that trayvon martin beat his head against the concrete for over a minute. maybe we're looking at the wrong video or something, reverend sharpton, but there is no way, anywhere on that video, that shows a person who has had their head beat on the concrete for over a minute. i understand that he is a father trying to beat his son, but it seems like the more they talk

the more it disputes the evidence. this is zimmerman walking in the police station 35 minutes after the shooting after he allegedly had his head beaten into the concre concrete. >> yes, and he sent a letter to the newspaper says his son didn't even get out of the car. now he says that his head was beat against a wall -- concrete for a minute. and now this videotape comes out. and now his brother is coming with statements, and it's just like -- >> so originally the father in a letter to the "orlando sentinel" newspaper that he never got out of the car. >> exactly. >> let me play this from the brother and let you respond. >> he has taken control of his

firearm, he prevented his firearm from being taken from him and used against him. >> would there be evidence of that if that was the case? >> you would think so. it was really interesting, his brother takes it farther than his father. they say he was hitting his head on the concrete, and saying that his brother would be paralyzed and he would have to change his brother's diapers. i don't know what video he's looking at, because he is walking just fine in that tape, and i don't see anything close to paralysis or injury in that videotape. we have enhanced it and looked at it. and we're saying where is the broken nose, the blood on the back of the head -- the evidence is there for you to look with

your own eyes. listen to the 911 tapes. you don't hear trayvon saying about you're going to die in the 911 tapes. >> if this goes to trial, how could this be used by a prosecutor in terms of mr. zimmerman if this is his testimony or his statement that his father and brother are properly appropriating what he is saying. >> you prefaced it the right way, reverend. if it is his testimony, and they shared bits and pieces that were convenient to suggest that his nose was broken, his head was beat into the concrete, but we know from this video that report is not true based on what we see. so if that is his words and his father and brother are saying

everything he said to the police, that he can be in peace. more importantly, as you assume he told this to the lead investigator, reverend sharpton, and the lead investigator after listening to zimmerman's statement, and being able to evaluate the evidence, that night on the scene, said that he didn't find his testimony to be credible, and he recommended an arrest. it was the state attorney and the police chief, and the now acting police chief of sanford. we don't know who else is there at the meeting. we're told there may have been more people at the meeting. we have to find out who was at that meeting and find out why they overruled the lead investigator. >> i need to ask you about that. what do you make of that meeting? and we were just told by a former prosecutor that they may try and argue that the fact that he was handcuffed means he was

arrested, and that in 175 days if he is not charged he can never be charged. which makes it even more reasonable for us wanting justice that says there is probable cause so you should arrest him. who was in that meeting, and why would they put the city of sanford and the rest of the country in that kind of predicament by cuffing him but not completing the arrest, but starting a clock that could run out in a little while. >> exactly, and that's the question there. who informs that meeting and what were their motives and did that do anything to impede the hands of justice, or impede a fair and impartial investigation. they should be held accountable. >> no question about it and it raises those of us saying there must be an immediate arrest because there is a time limit in

florida. if you continue to run the clock he request walk away after those days saying he can never be charged. they need a formal complete arrest, mug shots, and all of the rest. and we need the charges to move forward, and then let's have an open trial and see where it goes. >> yes, sir. and you're right, i worry about technicalities because there are ways to use those technicalities, so we have to stay on them, so i know you will all stay on them, and we thank you so much. >> we go right down the middle, we want justice either way it goes. ben crump, thank you for your time, have a great weekend. still ahead, new details on zimmerman's past including aggressive behavior. does it shed light on what could have happened? [ male announcer ] when these come together,

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could controversies in george zimmerman's past play into his investigation?

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he been arrested? a former coworker tells the "new york daily news" saying that he was fired from his job for being "too aggressive" it was like jekyll and hyde. when the dude snaps, he snapped. one time this woman was acting a little out of control. she was drunk. george lost his cool and totally overreacted. it was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. he picked her up and through her. it was pure rage. this new information about zimmerman is all the more disturbing. in 2005 he was arrested for allegedly assaulting a police officer. that same year, he and his exfiance fied petitions against each other for domestic violence. and she accused him of hitting

her in 2002 and 2003. some people are trying to bring up trayvon martin's past to try and smear him. the big difference it he was carrying skittles and iced tea. no one disputes that. george zimmerman was carrying a loaded gun. joining me now from miami, it's kendall coffey, former u.s. attorney, and criminal defense lawyer, and lisa bloom and author of the new book "think" let me start with you lisa. what do you make of these reports especially of the former coworker says zimmerman had a jekyll and hyde personality.

>> i think this is important information. we want to know more about both of the people involved and this does not shed any positive light on zimmerman. there was a homicide of a 17-year-old minor. it was incumbent on the flois do an investigation that would have led to this information. this is the kind of thing the police should have looked into in the investigation that they should have done. >> kendall, another quote from this coworker said "zimmerman loved being in charge. he loved the power." does that say anything to you? >> it helps us understand what happened that night. he wanted the power and the ability to use a gun. and when you put the other

pieces together, i think we are really starting to understand george zimmerman. i agree with lisa that i think this evidence is unlikely to be allowed in a trial if there is a try some day. but i think it could bear upon how the special prosecutor decides on this case. she has to be convinced that this guy unlawfully killed trayvon martin. and this kind of information, even if it's not the evidence that came in front of the jury, helps drive that it could be a righteous prosecution, even if it's not a conviction. >> the background we're getting about zimmerman, and the things we're learning, why would somebody in law enforcement in sanford police are digging in to fight for this guy? this city now is becoming known all over the world, and not so

great of light. is this guy worth it without probably cause, arresting him, and let the evidence go to trial and see what we're dealing with here? why are they digging in on this? >> i no idea and it certainly looks bad for them with each passing day. it appears they just initially believed george zimmerman's story. in every shooting there is somebody left holding the gun. and the person left holding the gun will say i acted with reckless indifference to human life. the police have a duty to do an investigation. now with the entire world watching, the sanford police department has a requirement to follow up on this and do the investigation they should have done. it's not too late for them to do it. i grieve with you, the world is

watching. >> now kendall, you used to be the u.s. attorney down there, how do you explain the way the police are acting here? is there a connection here or something you suspect we don't know yet? why are they taking what appears to be such an irrational stand? >> we don't know that right now, and that's why others are investigating, i believe, not only george zimmerman, but also investigating the investigation. every single day evidence comes out that makes you drop your jaw and makes you wonder why this wasn't looked at before. why did they have interviews, and an analysis of the video that was more relevant that what the police department was doing in the after math of the 26th. so this investigation will get a very close look now, and it's very hard for us to speculate on the answers. we know one thing, the lead

investigator thinks there was probably cause for an arrest. he was overruled and that has to be substantiated. >> some of the things neighbors said about zimmerman is "i think he took his job too seriously" and "overzealous." this adds to the picture the ex-coworker gave of him. >> yes, one thing we know for sure, the 911 operator told george zimmerman not to follow trayvon martin and he decided to do that anyway. why did he decide to do that? was it the hoodie, it was the color of his skin? did he want to take control of the situation?

but we're learning more and more everyday. >> in fact, kendall, when i go through the log of some of the 911 calls zimmerman made since march 2005, he called about a pot hol blocking road. november 2006, vehicle driving real slow, blasting music. trash in the roadway, open garage door, january of this year, children playing in the street. it would seem to me he would be annoying to the police calling on such petty things like this, but he treated him like he was something to be treated special, it just doesn't add up. >> he is exactly what responsible police officers don't want. they don't want a citizen walking around with a gun without the training and professionalism to use it. they don't want a self appointed

vigilante being an executioner. >> lisa, let me end with you, me and others are saying he should be arrested, what are your final thought snst. >> i agree, but let's not just point the finger at the sanford pd or george, let's point the finger at us for the stand your ground laws. they have to live with the law enacted in the state of florida and more than 20 other states nationwide and i think that is the root of the problem here. >> i agree and i want to challenge those that say it doesn't apply here, if it doesn't apply, then come out and say you agree he should be arrested. kendall coffey, lisa bloom, thank you. >> rushing to judgment in the case of trayvon martin, but the

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trayvon martin tragedy has been about one basic issue. how did a 17-year-old with iced tea and skittles end up dead? and why the was man who killed him not arrested? over the past 33 days we have learned a lot and we tried to answer that question. but for some on the right, it has become a different issue. they're criticizing people like me for rushing to judgment. here is bill o'riley last night. >> aquisitions are enough to condemn folks. the press want a story. allegations are front page news no matter how flimsy. no media observer knows what happen the day trayvon martin was killed. >> i have been on bill o'riley's show, but he got this one all wrong.

then there is bill bennet writing today about the media's "rush to judgment" with little regard for fairness, due process, or respect for the death of a young man. respect? what they need to understand not about a rush to judgment, it's exactly the opposite. we're not trying, i repeat, we're not trying to convict george zimmerman. we're clearly trying to stop you from acquitting george zimmerman. let me be very clear. when mr. crump and the family called me and said they wanted the man that killed their son arrested because due process had not taken place and this was probable cause. we came in because there was a question of the civil rights of that young man. that is not exploiting.

answering people asking for help, and determining their right. there is probable cause here, there should have been an arrest. deal with the issue. quit creating straw men and knocking them down. at least argue with us about what we're raising. joining me now is melissa harris-perry. and in los angeles, john mac, the legendary former president of the los angeles reserve league. john, what do you think the right is trying to do by shifting this conversation about trayvon. >> i think they're up to their same old habits and getting us off the real issue. i would say first of all i applaud you and the others. i think you have been balanced and fair calling for justice. i think we have a situation

where there are many within the right that would like to pretend that race is not an issue. they would like to pretend than a 17-year-old african-american male, shot down with no apparent justification, that that was just an isolated incident people should not make a lot of noise about. i think you and others need to stay on the case. people are calling for a very simple thing. here you have a situation, 17-year-old young man, you listen to those tapes to that 911 call, it sounds as though mr. zimmerman was saying he should not have been there, and he frankly apprehended him when he was advised not to. i don't think there is anything wrong whatsoever and i commend all of you who are demanding that at least he be arrested. >> now professor perry, what's going on here? we have seen right-wing websites

smearing trayvon martin, pictures put out that might not even be him. false pictures i repeat, others act like he was a drug dealer, suspensions from school -- >> let me say if he was suspended from school for drug use, which it was not, if they were true, why would george zimmerman have a right to shoot and kill him. even if that were true, why would it give zimmerman the right to kill him? everyone believe's zimmerman deserves a presumption of innocence, and a jury of his peers, and we all think he should have that. that's something african-americans have not had for most of history.

to be told that we're rushing to judgment, there is nothing that i would less like to do than to analyze the evidence associated with the zimmerman and martin case. i wish the sanford police had done their job. when it doesn't, the third of state in the american democracy is american media. our responsibility when we see a miscarriage of justice at this leave is to use the only power we have. we cannot arrest george zimmerman, we can make the injustice clear until someone acting on it. >> john, the l.a. urban league, people come to us when the system doesn't work to help to highlight the issue, to get the system to work. and that is is what this family did. they keep acting as if people are running in.

when we got involved there was no national issue. we had to help bring the nation's attention to help this family get justice for the probable cause and arrest of george zimmerman. >> you're absolutely right. the vaelt when you're in position of leadership, people come to us when there are injustices inflicted upon them. or they feel they have been. i think there is another important point to make here. were it not for the transparency, not for the light that was shined on this tragedy by the media and leaders like you and others, i'm afraid that not only would we not have had an arrest that it would have been swept under the rug and it would have been a matter of business as usual. one of the things i find very troubling about this incident is the way they're now trying to

blame the victim and make this innocent victim the villain. that's an old game, to your point about the right wing that they play. and have played over the years, and you, and others in leadership positions, respond to our constituents when they call upon us. it's not about jumping in and running in trying to find an issue or cause to be on top of just to be on television. >> you're right, and mark was down there with us again at the invitation, and let me show you, professor perry, here are the pictures that have been circulating of trayvon. the one on the right have gold teeth. it's not even him. forget just media and civil

rights leaders, rush limit because the most widely listened radio host, plays this about the president. >> obama saying that if he had a son it would look like trayvon martin is simply a way to advance the liberal agenda. that there is blatant racial discrimination. that this country has not advanced beyond the days of slavery. that we are still immoral, unjust, and need to be transformed. >> well, you see he reached and tried to bring the president in and all kind of irrelevant stuff. there are circulating pictures, some are him and some are not. the fight goes on. thank you both for your time tonight. have a great weekend. be sure to catch melissa

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when i first got involved in the trayvon martin case, i vowed to keep the pressure on until an arrest was made. i'll be back in sanford tomorrow. we have a march organized by the gnash action network and others as we have seen in the past few weeks. this tragedy has extended beyond sanford. more than 20 more muches and rallies are happening this weekend. they started sml two weeks ago with the million hoodie march in new york. millions of people are using social media to demand justice and online petitions started at change.org. calling for an arrest has now reached 2.2 million people with

signatures. celebrities are getting involved. bruce springsteen has been dedicating a song to trayvon, and the red hot chili peppers. the story has so much national attention, it tops the national news interest in a recent poll. we're going back to sanford tomorrow to keep the pressure on. those on the right are saying you must have peace, but there is a qualitative difference between peace and quiet. to have real peace, you must have justice. they're really just saying shut up, and allow injustice to go unchallenged. that's not peace. that's just cowardly silence. and that, we can never afford if you're true american patriots to be silent in the face of real