critical and laugh at that, but i accept that sometimes it sounds funny. but it is a matter of importance when the president of the united states has his place of birth critically attacked, ludicrous attacks on his personal faith, people accuse him of being a muslim, and yet you have republicans who go around the country parading their faith and yet gave less than 2%, and here's the president giving 22% of his income to charity. >> and i guess the -- yes, absolutely. >> and that makes the point. these are actions of the man. that's what i was trying to say. >> unequivocated. all i was saying was you describe it on a level of practicality. how will they behave? >> i'm being told by your director at this moment that you need to move forward. >> i actually do, yes.

>> so the show starts -- >> right now. >> well, it's friday the 13th. good afternoon to you. i'm dylan ratigan. today's big story, failure to launch. major embarrassment for the north koreans. the long-range missile fell apart 40 seconds after takeoff. no one was hurt except perhaps the rocket scientist who did not get it right. remember, this is a regime that publicly shamed its entire world cup team for losing and then threw the coach into a labor camp. experts are now even more convinced the north will try to heal its bruised ego with an underground nuclear test like they did three years ago after the u.n. condemned another failed rocket launch. if you're keeping count at home, this is now the fourth failed north korean rocket launch. washington has cut off 500

million pounds in promised food aid to the north. the white house also insists more provocative actions will bring on even more sanctions. hard to imagine what that will be given the fact the north is under every sanction you can think of. the regime sais acting like the failed launch never happened. they're unveiling a statue of their former leader, kim jong l il. here's a short report for us. >> reporter: we are now in kim jong il square. the unveiling of the statue ended 20 minutes ago, yet people are still streaming through the streets. the scale of this event is enormous. most people don't have cell phones so they come in groups with their schools, with their factories. it's all organized at a fairly local level and they are still coming out. maybe there's 100,000 people here, maybe more. it's very hard to know. everything in this country is highly orchestrated. the reaction so far today to

what is being described as a failure of the rocketed satellite launch has been one of celebration, people coming out expressing their absolute devotion and confidence to this country's leaders, past and present, and now everyone is just on their way home. and they are still coming through the streets. >> again, richard engle from north korea. dr. john park is a research fellow at harvard research bellford center. dr. park, from a psychological standpoint, this is a less than ideal outcome, i presume, although there appeared to be no outcome in the theatre we were discussing that would be considered favorable. what are the implications and how do you interpret today's events? >> dylan, a lot of things have happened that are frankly catching us off guard. the fact that the north korean state media announced the failure to launch the satellite

quite publicly is something that is a marked departure from april 2009. in that failure to launch the satellite, we saw the north korean propaganda basically saying they're receiving propaganda revolutionary songs from that satellite. so this time around, it's hard to add up in any direction that we're familiar with. the key thing here is he's a new leader. at the party conference, the gathering they just had recently, he was basically appointed as the first secretary of the party and the supreme commander of the military. so we have the situation where he's getting the titles, but i think the failure to launch here casts some doubt in terms of his capabilities to lead. >> what happens next? >> right now the u.n. security council is deliberating. they came out with an initial statement deploring the test itself. the fact it failed is not really the issue. the fact is they pressed the button and went ahead in defiance of the international community and also in violation of two security council resolutions.

so now the debate is how do you respond to this? is it going to be another round of sanctions? that looks less likely, but companies on their own with national measures, some decided they will go ahead with sanctions. but the broader question is how do we move forward in dealing with north korea? had the test gone to full completion, the final debrief field is near the phillipines. that's a great distance. i think now there is an opportunity to frame north korea as a threat to international safety. that's different from previous efforts to continually frame north korea as a threat to international security. >> what would such a threat be as a threat to international safety that their activities basically are disrespectful, there to protect health and human life in those shipping lanes, obviously, and then also where does china -- how does china factor in in responding to north korea, if at all? >> right. as you mentioned, north korea is probably the most heavily

sanctioned country, so how do you sanction a country like this is something that becomes almost epidemic. in terms of framing north korea as a trhreat to national safety the north korean trading companies are doing more and more of their activities inside china and that is being routed to south korean ports. if we can work with the southeast asian countries to have more access to some of the commercial flows here and try to intercept and definitely try to intercept more of these cargos, i think there will be material impact in terms of the parts that are going to north korea that are eventually getting into the development of things like long-range missiles. >> you mentioned when we last spoke that the greatest risk as it pertains to north korea is uncertainty, that there is certainly a very difficult capacity for any observer, diplomat, whatever the position may be to actually feel truly informed as to where the power

resides and what the intent of the various custodians of power within that country is. how deep is the layer of not knowing? in other words, does anybody know, including the people who are theoretically the custodians of power in north korea, or do even they not know precisely what the intent is at this juncture? >> well, the broader question of trying to read the tea leaves in pyongyang has been framed as the black box. the very enormous difficulty of trying to discern anything going on there. but the reality is these north korean state trading companies are offering new objective opportunities to see how this new regime is functioning, a new regime by way of continuation of the last legs of the kim jong il regime. north korea is run by leaders that run their own state trading companies. this is an important source of revenue for operating budget as a country that doesn't have a national budget like most countries do.

using the webs of analysis falls short in north korea. but if we follow these trading companies and link them back to these powerful individuals inside north korea, it provides a new lens, and i think we can start piecing things together. but it is a newfield altogether in terms of research and study. >> dr. park, we appreciate your availability to give us the context that you did and the analysis. thank you, sir. >> my pleasure. >> john park, north korean specialist at harvard. coming up, the government agency making headlines for all the wrong reasons and that's not easy to do. what the gsa really stands for. plus, the real drama behind the prime time saga scandal. washington's top fixer joins us to talk about the show she inspired. has she really slapped the president? and we'll meet an author turning conventional wisdom on its head. why she says being wrong can be so right.

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a gsa bash was complete with a mind reader, clowns, even a talent show. then a one-week business trip for the gsa paid for by you and me to hawaii. a week. not bad. the actual, quote, work to be done, a one-hour-long ribbon cutting ceremony.

apparently they just needed to arrive early and stay late to deal with the jet lag. our next guest has even more news to break. apparently this federal agency, which is responsible for supervising the government's efficiency -- need we know any more -- was justified calling the dinner's award ceremonies, the top prize for these award ceremonies, the jackass award. appropriately enough, jonathon strong from roll call joins us now. if it wasn't so horrendous, it would be funny, if it wasn't so funny, it would be horrendous. these people supervise the efficiency of a government that we know is widely dysfunctional for 8 cajillion gazillion reasons. what, my friend, is the reason for this? >> there's not really a defense here, but here's what happened. apparently, you know, there is

quite a few rules and regulations that are designed to keep you from holding a lavish conference in las vegas for almost a million dollars. one of these rules is if you hold an awards ceremony, you're allowed to pay for dinner for the employees. seeing this opportunity, gsa officials then began inventing awards like superfluous awards just for that occasion so they could hold a fancy dinner. it became a running joke, so they took it a step further and actually gave an employee the jackass award as the excuse for one of these dinners. >> i just want to read everybody a transcript so they don't think we're making this up because we're trying to make things up. this is an actual transcript. the inspector general, in interviewing a gsa employee says, the jackass award got everybody food. the gas employee said, oh, yeah. the inspector general asked,

just because it was an award? the gsa employee said, i mean, there was a bunch of them. there was a bunch of goofy awards. so what you're saying is if they gave someone an award, everybody got dinner for free on the taxpayer? is that what you're saying? >> right. and one of the things we're learning is this kind of culture of corruption at gsa goes deeper than just this one conference. one of the things the employee mentions is that this had happened at past conferences over and over again. this was kind of a common occurrence for them to use this loophole. >> whether we look at any issue, we can look at any of these types of things, it would seem there could be culture corruption over any category is transparency. how did you get this information? congratulations on bringing it to light, and it would seem for all of us the first step is to reveal the pervasiveness and

bipartisan nature of this culture in every corner such that we can truly get the most transparent administration ever as opposed to just get it as a brand name, you know? >> right. well, the office of inspector general, each agency, almost every agency has one, spent almost a year investigating this, and he has since provided all the transcripts of his interviews and other documents associated with the investigation to several offices up on capitol hill that are -- they're working on their own investigation. so a lot of these details are going to come to light even beyond just the conference that we learned about in that april 2nd report. they're scheduled for next week to grill former and current gsa officials on this, and i understand there is quite a bit more to come out about the culture of corruption at gsa. >> congrats on the work you've done to reveal a dipstick of

that culture of corruption, and we will all look for, obviously, more information and hope that the light of day is the first step towards diminishing this culture. jonathan strong out of roll call. thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> thank you, jonathan. it's a friday, of course, 13th, no less. a day full of superstition and, of course, the ambience of bad luck when it comes to making movies and stuff. that streak of bad luck lasted at the white house. workers fed up giving up hope. the employment rate declined because people stopped looking. then the so-called buffett rule, pure politics with no policy relevance, although great moral sort of monthly particulpolitic. and then you had hilary rosen helping to make mitt romney human, which we all know is a task, by attacking his

stay-at-home wife. and now a new poll shows that mitt romney has a -- get this -- lead over the president of the united states in a poll. that is the first time any poll has shown that. joining us is the mega panel on this beautiful friday. crystal, i'm going to begin with you. you're in d.c. how is everybody feeling? >> well, i object to some of your premise of this question. >> so let us start there. where is my premise flawed by your measure? >> well, let's start with hilary rosen. i disagree that this was a good move for romney, and i disagree that this was, you know, illustrative of a strong romney campaign. >> i didn't say that, so if you want to take issue with my characterization, i would request that you take issue with my characterization. if you want to use this as an opportunity to indulge in all

the other characterizations, i would prefer that you refrain from that. and i would say that the democrats, just to be clear -- >> let me put it this way, then. i think the fact that this is the first week that romney is essentially the presumptive republican nominee, and he feels like he has to spend the week attacking a woman and going after these comments, which i also found offensive, but these not an obama adviser, she's not with the d.o.c, and frankly i think that's a little desperate. >> i'm sorry, krystal -- very, very quickly. >> a also object with the characterization that the buff fell rule is political and not substantive. it's political in that this congress is not going to pass anything, so the president has to take the case to the american people. but i think calling out the regress sie regressive nature of our current tax code is absolutely legitimate to do. >> and i would is a you and i have different priorities because i look at the national policy through the lens of

whether it has any impact whatsoever on any of our major issues having to do with our trade deficit, our energy policy, our jobs structure, our actual capital flows, the tax code. and while the buffett rule is sensational policy, and dan rhodes who also talks to us about all these things today, but the evidence to the buffett rule has zero relevance to any of those issues whatsoever, but is delightfully appealing to the moral outrage of wanting to get somebody else's something, whether it's taking food away from the poor, whether it's shattering the unions or taxing the rich, they are glorious politics, none of which are relevant to solving our policy solution. >> i think balancing the budget is a legitimate goal. that's a step in the right direction. >> i totally agree, and if it had anything to do with balancing the budget, i would agree with you more. torre, would you like to argue with me now?

>> no, sir. >> krystal sdidecided there wou be no panel today. >> she is a lovely individual, but i would like to point out there are some facts picking. who produced that poll that has romney ahead of -- there's bias. there's clear bias. and we should not -- >> let me put it this way. if you're going to criticize the narrative that i present, i beg of you, i beg of krystal -- no, no, you're not allowed to rebut me with something i didn't say and then discount a narrative i didn't say. daniel, let's try it with you. >> okay. first of all, the gsa -- do you want to make something else up i didn't say? >> on the gsa thing, it's possible they stumbled into a

very high bar mitzvah in vegas. >> why would they have to pay? >> i'm saying, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. this focus on what we call kitchen table issues. the working moms, having to pay their bills, health care, the buffett rule, i think this ultimately is the democrats' benefit. romney is a republican who is worth a couple million dollars, who doesn't pay any taxes, who hasn't had to struggle with anything his whole life, and the first thing he wants to do when he takes office is take away health insurance. >> you want to run against that guy. >> i would. the buffett rule, in the context of overall tax reform, a drop in the bucket. but it's really saying, you know what? screw the rich. i would rather run a campaign that says screw the rich than one that says screw the poor. >> i would completely agree with that, i just want to live in a country where the politics weren't based on non-policy solutions across the board. >> canada does that. >> then i should move to canada

if i don't want to do pretend politics. speaking of pretend politics, remember the obama administration said they would be the most transparent ever? >> we will continue to work, make sure our regulatory system is transapparent, cost effective, evidence based and modern. we have provided an incredible level of transparency over every decision we made with the tax money in that context. >> well, the federal reserve has been looking for ways to increase its transparency now for many years, and we have made a lot of progress. we have become, i think, a very transparent central bank. >> and you can understand why they would move in that direction. after all, the central bank was used and continues to be used to provide trillions of dollars of our money to support a secretly run banking complex, for instance, according to the bernie sanders audit. $30 billion of our money was

used for this central banking process. so we took them up on their offer of transparency. and back in january, the dylan ratigan show, along with the huffington post, filed information on that request to hand over the details of the minutes of the meetings, during and leading up to and after, the financial crisis. last month, lo and behold, we got this book. shared it with the folks at the huffington post, shared it with the folks on our side. all sorts of word searches. they tend to laugh a lot at these meetings, so when you see in the thing, so, you're doling out $30 million to resurrect the banks while creating hundreds of millions of people who ultimately deal with food inflation and go hungry, displacing millions of americans from their homes. >> they had a mind reader from the gsa party. >> what else is in there? in theory, and we'll get into it on monday, there are a few things in here.

for me the most interesting thing in here, which we'll get into, is who was in the meetings and where they are now. because what you really realize is there is a tremendous number of people, dan, who were involved in this process -- it's not a small group of three or four people, it's not like three or four people at a meeting -- there's hundreds of people in these meetings who are now working on wall street in financial employments. >> these people are not necessarily federal employees? >> no, they're banking employees. there's a special group of people that knows more and works on wall street. >> no longer knows more. >> we shall see. we shall see. >> can you give us one juicy tidbit? >> i can't. i made a deal with my friends. >> does it have a list of the communist -- >> it does have that. it does have that. all right.

krystal, torre and dan say next up notes on a scandal. >> so, we lost? what happens when we lose? we're just done? >> we're never done. if we lose this round, we prep him for appeal. if we lose that, we prep him for a second appeal, because whatever happens, there is always another move. whatever happens, we do not give up. it is my name on that door, and i do not give up. >> well, the real life washington crisis manager who inspired the hit show "scandal," judy smith, you're looking at her, joins us as our specialist, right after this. ♪ you are my sunshine, my only sunshine ♪

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when the crisis strikes, there is a woman you can call, however, though it tends to be a different situation. judy smith's clients have

included monica lewinsky, michael vick and the bp oil spill. it's the inspiration for her new prime time show, "scandal." take a gander. >> you're late. >> do you know who this is? this is the olivia coe. she's amazing. she works for the -- who do you work for now? white house? cia? fbi? >> today, your mother. >> oh, crap. >> she's not too thrilled that you're late for court your first day of trial. is this what you're looking for? >> just give me two minutes, all right? where are my pants? >> i know i've been hitting it pretty hard lately going out. i've just been so stressed out. >> a rape charge does it to the best of us. >> i didn't do it. >> she has drawn from experiences like that for her new book "good self bad self, transforming your worst qualities into your biggest assets." joining us now as our

specialist. judy, it's a pleasure. >> you had to show that. >> is that what we're dealing with? >> no. the show, i mean, it's great. you know, it takes sort of the crisis world that i live in every day and dramatizes television. i think shawn has done a great job with that. >> i think for all those pl politicos out there, what kind of tips can you give? do you watch an anthony weiner and just shake your head at how poorly they handle it? >> i'm probably glad you're not in my living room because i stand up, do a dance and scream at the tv. i think some good tips for everyday folks that are facing crisis are really the same things i would tell people in high-profile crisis is, one, you sort of have to face the music. tell the truth. that's an important concept. sometimes it escapes some of us.

i think another thing that is important is you want to know the facts. and by that i mean, it's not really how we want the facts to be and how we wish they were, but how they truly are. you know, how sometimes in crisis we try to manipulate the facts. and another thing is that, you know, when you are in trouble, and you know that you screwed up, you want to apologize for it. i think the american people are very forgiving, it's just when we try to -- can i say bs? >> you can say bs. >> you can say bs. >> when you try to be truthful with the american public, i think people get that. >> i love this show because we haven't seen this sort of powerful, intelligent, black woman in charge in prime time in a very long time, perhaps if ever, so i appreciate the show on that level. >> thank you.

>> but how does one become a fixer, and how do you -- gently, i would say -- sleep at night when you are representing people who are somewhat necessafarioun oil, michael vick did some evil things. he deserved a second chance but he did some really disgusting things. these are typically your clients. how do you deal? >> the show, certainly, it's sort of very humbling to have a show that's inspired by your life and to have a strong african-american lead. that's all good and pleasant. on the crisis side, i do think we all screw up and we all make mistakes. and i think that people do deserve a second shot. now, there's some cases -- for me, everybody has a personal line they draw that i just won't take. it's sort of like obscenity in the supreme court, you know it when you see it. >> who would you not take?

>> i would have to tell them and they would know. for example, cases -- >> why is bp acceptable to you? >> let me just say this. a case like, say, oh -- what's her name -- she was pregnant and her husband was convicted of killing her and her unborn child. do you know what i'm talking about? yes, that i wouldn't take. that i wouldn't take. it was clear from the evidence that i saw -- lacey peterson case -- that he was guilty of that, and that's not something i would do. i think when corporations, whether it's bp or corporations that, you know, that we deal with on a daily basis, when corporations get into trouble, it really is a unique opportunity. it depends how corporations use that opportunity, because it's an opportunity to really look at some of the policies and some of the practices that they have in

place and give them a chance to examine them and to fix them. >> or hire a lobbyist to pay somebody off to make sure you don't have it in the future. hire lobbyists to make sure it was regulated and then there wouldn't be a scandal if you had to keep people alive. >> the lobbying thing is something i don't do. >> how do these people think they can get away with it in the first place? i'm wondering, in these conversations you have with them, is there sort of this self-pity of how did this happen to me? or, i knew i was going to get caught and maybe seeing some sense of relief from these people? >> i think it's a mixture of both. you do, you have that sort of, i think i can handle it, i won't get caught, or the big one is that maybe it will go away and people won't find out about it. most times people do want to address it and to fix it and try to move on from it in a positive

way. >> all the best with the show and with the book. "good self bad self." it's great to have you here. krystal, we'll talk to you sooner than later. have a good weekend. >> thanks, dylan. >> despite your name on twitter, i would say an exceptional above and beyond. that's right. >> nothing against you, sir, but there is a whole other -- >> can i help you? >> no, sir. >> all right. straight ahead, what doesn't this guy do? new york mayor cory booker excelling in multiple ways. we'll discuss it.

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faster than a speeding bullet. more powerful than a locomotive. able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. >> look, up in the sky. it's a bird. >> it's a plane. >> it's cory booker not leaping buildings in a single bound, but apparently he is pulling people out of building burns. >> i'm a neighbor and i did what a neighbor would do, which is jump into action to help a friend. there was a time when i got through the kitchen and was s p searching for her and i looked back and saw the kitchen in flames. it was a really frightening experience for me. i didn't think we were going to dpet out of her. i finally found her and found an opening where i could grab her. i just decided we were going to try to go through the kitchen. >> they did get out with both he and the woman suffering second-degree burns, but come on. a mayor literally saving a citizen? this isn't the first time we've seen him spring into action. a little over a year ago, the

mayor was riding shotgun during a blizzard and helping people dig themselves out of the worst snowstorm in memory. he even took the time to call in to our show. >> it's good to be out there with the people. these days you can do a command office from your car. i have my phones in connection with with the office, but i can also be out there helping people with other people helping people, which makes the process so inspiring. >> no wonder people love this guy. the mayor has even expanded into the internet where people were tweeting out cory booker stories. he is one of ryan gosling's recent heroics. up next here, we all make mistakes, so why all the blame, shame and guilt? the author bordering the line between right and wrong. ♪ ♪

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well, our next guess says our whole approach to screwing up is screwed up. according to her. we teach our kids that it is okay to make mistakes. we intellectually glorify the culture of learning through your mistakes. they're imperative to the learning process, we tell our children. and then as a culture, we spend the balance of our lives punishing and embarrassing one another for every possible little mistake that could possibly be made. joining us now is alena tugin

who writes shortcuts for the "new york times." she's the author of the new book "better by mistake." explain the gap between the sort of intellectualization of the culture of mistakes and culture of experimentation, and you have to figure it out, and the actual culture of how we live as a country. >> you're absolutely right. when we're young we're taught, you learn by making mistakes, this is how we grow and learn and develop. somewhere in our elementary and middle school years, we start learning it's all about results. all that matters is we get the a, we start getting into college and get the good job, and we forget about the process and we say, forget it, don't make mistakes. making mistakes is bad, it's screwed up, and we forget about the idea that the only way we can learn and innovate is by making mistakes. >> two questions in there. one, what do you think is happening in that sort of middle school, late elementary school culture that is valuabidating t, and i suppose that it's the most

powerful people in our country model this behavior. >> we jump on every major mista mistake, minor mistake, no matter what side you're on. nobody can blunder. there is no such thing as a big mistake or a little mistake, they're all terrible. i think it's, again, about being result spaced. in kirndergarten, it's cute, yo play, you do things, you make mistakes, it's fine. as we get older, we're such a test-based culture, and it's, did you do well on the test? there are no mistakes. >> and is it only through experimentation that, by definition, has negative outcomes or results you didn't expect. you can call it a mistake, you can call it what you want, an experiment has results that you did not anticipate or that you were hoping you wouldn't get and all the rest of this, and we celebrate that culture. silicon valley, austin, texas,

where is the disconnection? >> you're absolutely right. steve jobs. we all sit there and say what a genius, but he failed over and over. we talk about these platitudes that einstein will say. and yet we think it doesn't apply to us. about us, it's all about we screwed up, we have to hide, we have to finger point, we have to be defensive. somehow, as you said, the perfect word is disconnect. when i was writing this book, some people said, oh yeah, i hate mistakes. other people said, you know, it really did bother me. i have a plaque on my desk that says, every mistake is a lesson learned. i don't believe them. i think a majority of us really dread mistakes, and we somehow think, those geniuses can screw up, but we can't. >> another point you're making that is markedly profound is that the obsession with a certain state or a certain object sets in earlier. and what you're saying is when we get that obsession with the

a, with the whatever the thing is, that at that time we then forfeit our commitment to a healthy process. we can either obsess over the process or we can obsess over the outcome. what is the risk of abandoning any culture of integrity or visibility or decency in our process across the board? >> the danger is we raise children and they become adults who are terrified of trying new things, who are terrified of trying new challenges. let me tell you of an experiment. 400 fifth graders were told to take a test. half were praised for being smart, half were praised for taking more effort were praised. the effort wanted to take the harder test. it's about the effort we make, not just about the results.

>> and also the process with which we exert our effort. if we exert our effort through cheating and deception, and really the whole universe is based on cheating and deception, then you have a lousy culture. >> no, it's about honest effort and sitting with discomfort and being able to be uncomfortable and understand and work through a process, not just quickly get to the end. and that's something that we somehow have lost. we look at superstars and athletes and we think, oh, you know, aren't they fantastic? but we don't sit there and say look how hard they may have worked to get and how much they must have failed to get there. we simply see the end. >> the only way a culture will change is each individual deciding to change, how they will behave on a given day. what would you suggest to me that i could do to sort of be more aware in that regard, and for that matter, anybody watching the show? >> i think you're absolutely right, it shifts a little. we have to shift the prism

slightly. it starts at home, it doesn't end at home, but we have to watch our mistakes and when we make a mistake, don't beat each other up or look to others to blame. find out there is a systemic error, something underneath that caused it. own up to it, take responsibility and move on. don't keep beating ourselves up but take the responsibility. we have to think about mistakes and how we're judging ourselves and others. >> a wonderful narrative, a wonderful -- i certainly share the point of view. alina tugend happens to be married to an old colleague of mine, which is also nice. sdp . >> that's right. better by mistake." check her out. you can also read her in the "new york times" on a recurring basis. coming up here, the one, the only, the torre is back with a daily rant. i love that my daughter's part fish.

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hello, sir. in the biggest and most difficult moments of life, when all the world is watching and all the pressure in the universe is on your back, in those moments, many people shrink and a few people rise. trayvon martin's parents, sabrina fulton and tracy martin, had the hardest moment thrust upon them, a moment we wouldn't wish on our worst enemy. and they went on a public crusade that revealed them to be extraordinary people of character and grace. they pleaded for justice while others screamed for blood. they suggested this is not about

race, allowing themselves to remain above the fray and making it everyone's issue, while others of us yelled this is surely a situation drenched in racial stereotyping. the night trayvon died, someone looked at him and poured all the typical stereotypes into him. they looked at him as if being a young black man is synonymous with being a criminal, which is very wrong but all too common. surely that critically black man came from a broken family that's everywhere, right? but then the martins showed up to destroy that script, standing together and speaking for justice. they made it impossible to see just another dehumanizing, broken, black family. they divorced over a decade ago, but they remained enough of a family unit that they could come together in crisis when they need each other. a divorced family is not necessarily a broken family, and this one certainly is not broken. the way they argued their case

and pleaded for justice nudged us to this moment where charges have been filed. they were so smart about the images they shared with media, quickly sending pictures of trayvon looking sweet in a hoodie, looking ougall american his football uniform, looking entirely the script you would expect of a black american shown skiing with his family. if someone cares enough to take the boy skiing, then surely, this is someone whose life must be taken seriously. that was a brilliant choice by the martins who showed uncommon courage as they struggled to bury their son. surely they must be angry, but they haven't shown it. they have shown us character and faith in the system, and i respect them for that. there is no winners in this horrific situation, but sebrina and tracy have shown themselves to be exemplary americans. >> what is it you like about them the most?

>> being parents, burying their child in a sudden death, then they come out, do all the interviews, attend all the rallies and they stand there together, strong. just by standing there, they convey dignity on to him which is what was robbed from him that night. and i don't know -- >> so what would the lesson be? your point was -- >> i don't want -- >> you put all of us in crisis. what is the lesson? >> i don't want to judge the people who were not able to just stand there in front of all the cameras -- >> so it's not judgment, but what characteristics do you think we should all be aspiring to in crisis that are represented so brilliantly in this excruciating set of circumstances. >> to find the dignity to stand there in a moment of crisis and call for justice and not for blood. and to say this is everybody's problem, and it's about red blood, not black or white, which is what they needed to be saying, right? and others of us needed to be saying this is absolutely about race. but they were able to be above

the fray and be kingian, dr. king-ish, in saying this is not about race. this is about a boy who bled into the ground. let's focus on that. and i appreciated that from them as the leaders of the movement. >> it resonates, i think, with people of all races and, really, from all cultures which, really, you're referring ultimately to grace in these human beings and compassion and all those things. very well said, and i thank you. and before we let you go, just a reminder, we mentioned it during the mega panel, but we do have the minutes from the federal reserve meetings during the financial crisis. we filed a freedom of information request to acquire that information three months ago, and since then we've been working with the huffington post and our own producers to find the best nuggets in those contents and we look forward to revealing all of those on monday of next week. have a good weekend. i'm dylan ratigan, and