head. let's's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. leading off tonight paging joe mccarthy. would you think the republican party would have learned its lessons from mcarjyism but alan west doubled down on his claim that roughly 80 members of the oous house of representatives all democrats are communists. where is john boehner? and where is eric cantor? where are the republicans saying this is over the line? and while we're at it, why isn't mitt romney condemning ted nunlant's comments while even the secret service will interview nunlant for what he said. speaking of the secret service and prostitution scanned scandal, members are being given the opportunity to take a lie detector test.

plus, let's say obama beats romney. will the senate turn republican and do everything to stop him in a look at whether might control the u.s. senate next january. you might not know its name but you know what it does opinion the group known as alec, a db l-e ksh c, drafted laws including stand your ground laws. now alec's opponent won a big victory. fear over the trayvon martin's case cost the group so much corporate support that it decided to get out of the stand your ground business. big news there. let me finish to knit with a tribute to the man who brought us the sound track of our youth. band stand. of course, i'm talking about dick clark. we again with alan west doubling down on his crazy claim. and i mean it is certainly crazy. that eight house members, house democrats, are communists. david corn, from mother jones, author of the book with "showdown." there it spp you can buy that book. and even go to amazon. this very instant.

gene robinson, rit written the column for the post and credited from msnbc. allen west told a voter in k congress there are about 80 communists in the u.s. house of representatives. let's watch it. >> what percentage of the american legislature do you think are card card-kaerrying -- >> about 78 to 81 members of the democratic party that are members of the communist party. >> oh, the precision. 78 to 81 card carrying members of the communist party. yesterday congressman west said of those comment, quote, i don't regret it whatsoever. there is a thin line between

communism, progressivism, markism, socialism. it's about nationalizing production, it's about creating an expanding the welfare of the state. ate about the idea of social and economic just justice. >> it is smiles. it is oceans wide.miles. it is oceans wide. first of all, it's a lied but there is something cenacle about this. you know, alan west raisees a lot of money by saying crazy things earning $7 million by doing this kind of clown show. >> absolutely. that's why it is tolerated. >> you and i are old enough to remember, went through the hell, right? in the '50s. he came out in a west virginia meeting of republican meeting back in january of '50, i got 250 communist in the state department. >> he add list. >> he had a claim it a list. he didn't have a list. >> he didn't have a list.

what's in it for the rurp republicans to say stuff like this? why is that red meat for these people in why does it sound so good? >> it sounds good in the way that when ted nugent gets out there and saying america hating administration. michele bachmann whose been on the show -- >> she made her bones here. >> saying anti-american. what they want to do is basically drum barack obama and the democrats out of acceptable american society. they are different. they are really in american. >> okay, a tribute to dick clark. here is machineman on "hardball" doing this stuff. how many in the congress of the united states do you think are anti-american. you already suspected barack obama? is he alone or are there others? how many of your colleagues do you suspect of being anti-american. >> what i say is that news media

should do a penetrating expo day and take a look. i wish they would. i wish the american media with take a look at the views of the people in congress and find out are they pro america or anti-america. i think people would love to see an expose like that. >> actually, i've done that investigation. 435 members of the house of representatives. i think they are all pro america. just a casual survey. >> why does this message connect with anyone? i think when people are anxious, if things aren't going well for them, you know, you create a villain. there has to be like a bad person. >> but do gene, don't they have to be credible bad guys like communist? >> for most people they have to be credible bad guys. >> this is asymmetric al. when you look at the left. the left is attacking george bush or dick cheney or mitt romney. >> months lienee. >> but they don't say

anti-american. they may say pro corporate, may say they favor the rich. but tle don't say anti-american. >> but they are called stupid. >> there is something distin distinctive about this ate idea? >> what. >> a conservative trick it goes back to the 1920s. >> here is what he had to say about the original aljanuary west comment. not even joe mckorjy would say something so stupid from reality. someone else calling him stupid. this is the republican party as the responsibility entity that an ignorant mean guy like alan west is considered one of their stars. i ask people wheb you hear something to breathtakingly dumb and vicious as that, how do people expect us to be able to work out some compromise with him? well, barney always finds a great example. he is so smart.

i hate to see this guy leaving congress. he is so smart. it is a pretty good thing. whenever i or someone pushing for middle of the road solution between the guys, they say be you got to deal with him? come on. we brought up ted nugent. a rock musician known for right wing views. in march, a month ago, he is facing heat for remarks he made at an nra convention in st. louis this weekend. he was planned on being interviews this weekend. let's take a look at what he said on saturday. >> i'll tell you this right now, if barack obama becomes the president in november, again, i will either be dead or in jail by this time next year. if you can't gal vannize and promote and recruit people to vote for mitt romney, we're done. we will be a suburb of indonesia next year. our president and attorney general, vice president, hillary clinton, they're criminals.

we are patriots. we are brave heart. we need to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in november. >> well, i would say that chopping the heads off is probably a hyperbole. what does he mean when he says, i'll be in jail or dead. does that mean what? >> that's what the secret service wants to know. >> that's usually what happens to people who do dangerous things to our president. >> some sort of apom liftic thing that he will be protagonist of. and leading a revolution into that. >> the interesting thing about the nugent -- >> it is against the law, by the way, to threaten the president. >> yes it is. the nugent thing is no surprise. in 2007 he held up machine guns at a concert and said, barack obama should suck on this and hillary clinton should ride this into the sunset. it seemed like a sexual assault reference. even doing that, he still sits on the nra board. this is an official meeting he was at and mitt romney still sought his endorsement.

>> here is a romney spokeswoman in perhaps to this sentiment said in response to nugent's comment, the language is offensive no matter what side of the political aisle it comes from. mitt romney believes everyone needs to be civil. let's's get closer to home. i think john boehner is responsible to some extent for members of his -- >> yes. >> i called the office. i know he doesn't have to respond to everything. but when one of your guys calls 70 members or 81 members of the other party commies, shouldn't you say, i think he is a little over the top or -- because somebody night believe it. >> when you are speaker of the house, you are not only responsible for the caucus were you are responsible for the house of representatives and capitol building. and you're in the line of -- >> yeah and drawing -- >> or commies. >> and to allow the suggestion they're anti-american communists -- >> you know what he said, i

think you and ai agree on this. somehow the right has done this. the charge that if you are a liberal, you believe in a role for government, mixed capitalism, then you are a slippery slope away from stalin and camps and everything else. but if you are a moderate conservative then you are really on a slippery slope to extreme rightism and you are over there with mousussolini and hitler. >> people don't do that. and if they do d to that, there with wo be an uproar for asking people -- if hillary said something like that, that mitt romney is a fascist, then she would be in hotter water. but you're right about the slippery slope idea. because mitt romney doesn't talk this way. but what does he say? he says barack obama doesn't understand america. he apologizes for america. he doesn't really believe in america. >> he is not the home team. >> not the home team. >> don't think that this is going away between now and november. >> no.

>> i think on the -- on the road it a very rough campaign. i'm not saying that democrats are above doing some rough stuff. but along the road to november, we will hear this alienation number on obama. maybe that he is not a birther -- >> we have been hearing it for four years. we will hear it intensify until november. >> he is a secret muslim. he want born here and he doesn't get america. he is not one of us. even after being president for four years. >> let's see if this commy line continues. i think john boehner, who i do respect, i certainly respect his office and the way he's gotten to it. he is a fair man. he has got to say something very soon about a member of his caucus be a star in his caucus raising this money as this nut. >> a breach of house decorum. >> he wouldn't say this on the house floor. >> that's different. >> thank you david corn and thank you eugene robinson. good to have vintage knowledge here of our country's history. i don't think alan west has too much.

coming up, new details of the secret service sex scandal. it is getting hotter. they are talking about lie detector tests for agents who want it clear themselves. this is worse than an embarrassment. this is "hardball." to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.

do you want to know how close the presidential race looks right now? we have the new york times cbs news poll and "hardball" score board. check it out. the obama and romney right now, 46, even. even 46-all. can't be closer than that. last month the president the a three-point lead. so it is tightening. be right back. and tastes simply delicious. for those of us with lactose intolerance... lactaid® milk. the original 100% lactose-free milk. free-credit-score-dot-com'sur boargonna direct you ♪ts ♪ ♪ to check your credit score before it gets too late ♪ ♪ and you end up strapped for cash ♪ ♪ patching your board with duct tape ♪ ♪ so hit free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ find out what credit's about ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." american investigators are in colombia this week looking into the prostitution scandal rock the secret service right now. according to a u.s. official, some of the age ens now back in states have been offered polygraphs as part of their investigation. and some have accepted the clans it take one. nbc news correspondent kristin walker is at the wlous with the latest.

kristin, a sorted story to report bp what do you got? >> reporter: certainly is. it continues to evolve as you said. secret service have been offered polygraph tests. some said yes tle would take them. this investigation seems to be moving quite rapidly. the secret service launched an internal investigation. they have interviewed the 11 personnel who were allegedly involve fled this. stripped them of their security clearance. and so this polygraph testing process is the next process. we are assuming that this is getting under way as we speak. so members of congress, quite interested to know what results of the polygraph tests will be. one of the things that's been a bit difficult for investigators is that apparently these 11 secret service personnel, the ten military members, are giving conflicting reports, which is what you would expect when there are this many people involved in an incident. right new investigators trying to sift through a lot of

information. as you said with, there are also investigators in colombia right now trying to get in contact with some of the prostitutes who may have been a part of this scandal. that has not been an easy process. they are trying to contact a lot of different women. trying to get all of this information together. also, by the way, chris, trying to make sure that these women didn't get their hands on any sensitive materials to make sure there hasn't been a security breech. chris? >> not to judge anybody ahead of time but on the surface it looks hard it believe this is rare occasion. if they are talking 2 to $800 bucks for each woman and 20 women according to senator collins. you're talking a huge operation. all 11 women went back with these guys. maybe 20 women. all this corography of getting this done. yet they say it never happened. it just happened this one night? >> reporter: that's the central question. by the way, investigators are trying to nail down that figure of how many women were actually involved. was it 20 women or fewer than 20

women. that's is what senator collins has been told. but you're absolutely right. that the central question. is this an isolated incident or is this a part after larger pattern within the secret service. senator collins said there are so many men involved it is hard it believe it's an isolated incident. however we spoke with brian stafford, former director of the secret service, who said that this absolutely is an isolated incident. really depends on the perspective you're looking at. but this is such a central question, chris, because if you speak with folks within the administration, they say the answer it this question could determine what happens to the director of the secret service, mark sullivan. if it turns out this is isolated, he might have a lang future. if not, he might be in trouble in this instance. so they want to get to the bottom of this. what is fascinating is that right now you have members on both sides of the aisle, and the administration, standing firmly behind the director saying he responded quickly, in the

appropriate way. he brought the men home, stripped them of security clearance. so right now, they are standing firmly behind them. it there are just a few voices who are saying maybe there need to be an overhaul. within the agency. but once they have those answers, that will determine who stays and who goes essentially. >> great report kristin welker. thanks for joining us. now, elijah cummings, from ranking members of the house on the oversight committee. i have great respect for you. is this something bigger tan just one bad night? >> we really don't know, chris. that's what we've got to find out. my conversation with director sullivan led me to believe that he does not -- he believes this is more of an adoration. he believes he hasn't seen anything like this. he is extremely embarrassed. but that's what we are trying to find out, chris. as matter of fact, just a few minutes a i go, chairman icea

and i joined in the joint letter to the director, asking him for information concerning this incident. what he knows, is there a pattern of this? has there been disciplinary issues with these 11 secret service agents before? and basically, what is the policy with regard to secret service agents getting together with prostitutes? >> yeah. and why would they want it take a polygraph? why would any agent want to take a polygraph? they want at least a clans to litigate their careers. they don't want to lose their retirement and health benefits, besides being sacked. last thing they want to do is, sure, i'd be glad it take a lie detector test. it is ludacris to offer it, unless they are totally innocent. >> chris, i disagree with you. in my conversation with director sullivan, i said, i always had the impression that when a

person became the member after secret service, they knew there would be probability of taking lie detector tests from time to time and they would go into the service understanding that. what he said is they do do polygraphs every five years. but i think these guys should want to clear themselves. but i can tell you, i think the secret service is more -- will be harder on them in itself that we could ever be. this is a tremendous embarrassment. >> it sure is. we have always been proud, like i am and i know you are, as americans, of these guys taking a bullet for a president. >> that's exactly right. >> laura had mitt romney explain what he would do to clean up the messes of the secret service and the other question, the gsa, in another related scandal. let's listen. >> what would you do right now to do it, to fix it? >> well, i would clean house. the right thing to do is to

remove people who have violated the public trust and put their play time and their personal interest ahead of the interest of the nation. you've got to make an assessment of those individuals and where people have failed or where you think they have not got the level of care and caution that's necessary, well you replace them. >> i don't think he meant to say, i'm not going edit mr. romney, but i don't think he meant it say clean house, get rid of everybody. but what do you make of that broad brush approach there. >> i think we got too do the investigating, chris. and i think that, you know, as i said to director sullivan, i look at the secret service on the same level that i look at the navy seals. and he agreed with me, that we want the secret service to have such a reputation that people don't even imagine them doing things like this. >> agreed. >> that's the image they need to have. we have to make sure that trust

is restored. i think that's the key. that's what we are aiming to do. and hopefully we will have answers swiftly. we've is asked for answers to our question webs that is claireman sisa, and i, we want answers by play 1st. we hope to have questions in line by then. but i have faith and confidence in director sullivan and i think that they will get to the bottom of this. but this is a very unfortunate incident. we just cannot have the secret service being the topic of the news three, four, five nights a n a row. i mean, that's not the way it is supposed to be. we're better than that. >> okay, great to have you on. u.s. congressman elijah cummings, ranking member in the investigativive committee. the crowd that always blames president obama for everything the government might do wrong and gives him credit for nothing he ever does right, like catching osama bin laden. they never give him credit for that. you're watching "hardball." [ banker ] mike and brenda found a house that they really wanted.

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back to "hardball." now for the side show. first up, the recent spending scandal involving the gsa has caused a congressional investigation to be launched largely focusing on gsa commissioner jeff kneelly. but the folks of the colbert report notice the most recent upheaval seems to spark a familiar blame game from the country. guest who tops the list of their targ snets. >> i haven't talked about this story much so far because i knew my buddies at fox news were on it. >> we will tell you about the latest gsa spending outrage. >> the latest outrages from the gsa. >> if you're not outraged, there is really something wrong with you. >> watch california congressman and darrell american darrell issa. poll the stopper on jeff

kneelly's lies. >> did you attend the 2010 western conference in las vegas. >> on advice of my council i respectfully decline based on my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. >> who is he protecting? >> it happened under president obama's launch. >> that blame has to go right to the president. >> the president is responsible for anything the government does while he's in office. >> notice, that there are two wine glasses in that photo. who is the other one for? and come to think of it, who took the photo? someone else had to be in that bathroom. there's only one person it could be. barack obama. >> they blame him for the mess over tsa but won't give him credit, eenl a smidgin of it for catching bin laden. when it doubt, blame the president. now in search for the vp. romney waited on what it will

take to make the cut. >> i can tell you that the one quality that comes to mind immediately is that you want someone would without question could lead the country as president if that were necessary. i think all of the political considerations pale in comparison with the consideration of who has the capacity to lead america at a critical time and i hope to if i'm the president that eventuality would never occur but that has to be key consideration. >> there's a man taking notes during game change. republican senator tea party supporter jim demint of south carolina launched his own search for romney's running mate. that's right. the website is conducting a poll asking for who romney should pick for vp. marco rubio got off to an early lead but he is not exactly a shoe-in based on the ground rules for romney for being president. how is this for a timing snafu.

rick santorum is out of the run for president. but his campaign showed up in some iowa mailboxes this week. according to the des moines register a letter from team santorum reeds raeds in part, there is still time for conservatives if we act now to win it primary to mick sure our party doesn't nom ney a massachusetts moderate. it frightens me to think what might happen if mitt romney is the nominee. little late with that one. late hit you might say. a spokesperson for santorum says they were printed up and sent to a direct mail company before santorum bowed out of race. this man hasn't made an endorsement stins dropping out, still holding out on mitt. up next, even if president obama wins reelection, will democrats seek control of the senate. we will look at the hottest senate races. can he keep the hold of 53-47 in the oous senate in in watching "hardball."

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i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. dow slides 83 points. s&p off 5. nasdaq loses 11 points. worries about europe hit stocks after spain said bad loans at banks rose to an 18-year high. after the close american express posted better than expected earnings thanks to increased credit card use. ebay is also out with profits that exceeded analysts estimates. strong u.s. and international sales help boost profits at yum brands but shares are lower at after-hours trading. that's first in business worldwide, now back to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." with ten u.s. senators stepping down this year, fight for control of the senate is very much up for grabs this november. a very important fact. and right now, democrats holding razor thin edge in the upper body. 53-47 including two independent who caucus with them, that's 53-47. but the democrats are playing defense in a number of key races. look at some of the tossup races where much of the media attention will be focused this sum perp from west to east, nevada, montana, new mexico, missouri, wisconsin, florida, virgin virginia, and massachusetts, all have very competitive races and all but two of them, nevada and massachusetts, are seats currently held by democrats. we are going to take a close look at five of the contests. where do the democrats stand their best clans to lose or win. and when will republicans possibly pick up seats in director of the u.s. of virginia center for pop ticks. and staff writer for the great

roll call. the most recent call from the boston globe up there in late march recently showed a very tight race between scott brown the guy in the truck, and elizabeth warren, who want it clean up wall street, they are in a dead heat. larry, what's your call? how does that look? >> well, it's april but i'll tell you the most important word, chris, in the senate vocabulary this year, coat tail. >> especially in massachusetts. >> we already know, it doesn't matter that romney was governor. president obama will win, i would say, 58, 60%, something like that in massachusetts. that's a giant problem for scott brown, whatever the preelection polls say. i think elizabeth warren has a good clans it pick up that seat. >> what do you think? >> i agree with larry. >> because of the coast tail effect of the dramatic obama win. >> and i think massachusetts is inherently a democratic state. i think if the unemployment rate

is high, scott brown by a little bit or elizabeth warren a lot. >> i think scott brown is a pure, and i don't mean this positively, a pure politician. people can read that any way they want. i mean, pure. this is what he is at, getting votes. with the truck and barber coat and he is so smart at not league an elitist. let's go to your state, larry, george is coming back after the problem he had a while back. he lost six years ago, he was heading for the presidency. now he is trying to get his seat back against tim kaine. popular moderate, i would say, recent chair of the democratic nags chooi committee. tim kaine versus george allen in your case. larry? >> chris, i don't know if i mentioned the word coat tail. but this is a pure coat tail race. chris, think about it. how many voters who vote for president obama are going to turn around and vote for jarj george alan? seriously. you can count on both hands and

a lot of mistakes. tim kaine is not just known here as former governor. he is known as former obama dnc chair. so people who vote for mitt romney are very unlikely to turn around and vote for tim cane. i think the winner of the presidential contest in virginia gets a bonus senate seat. >> wour wow. that powerful. >> yeah, i think it is definitely a nationalized race and i think the cane campaign it looking at the obama campaign movement. how much do they plan virginia. does that help or hurt come november. if you watch cane's campaign, he has been very careful to distant himself from president. >> i don't think he needs coat tails. let's go to missouri. what do you think, a very familiar face here on our show. we like her. she has been a great open guest to us. she has a few problems. >> think she is the most endangered in the cycle. as larry mentioned, coat tails.

they are not very strong, for the president in missouri. i think she will have tough reelection there. she does have a very crowded and negative primary in her favor on the republican side though. >> same question, but i want it hear from you about john testener montana. another guy with a crew cut. looks like a regular guy. works on his tractor on weekend. he is known as a north eastern liberal. that's for sure. your thought on him, larry? >> i think she's right but i would call tester the most endangered democratic incumbent. that a race i see obama losing 7, 8, 9, maybe 10 point this time around. that should be enough to allow the republican to defeat senator tester. >> let's go finally to the rot race in florida. bill nester has been around a long time. he may well face connie mac. it's not sure yet. he is up over mac by 8 points. again back to you sheera, he has been around too long, bill

nelson? does he have a reason to be ereelected. >> that there is that old saying, would you rather be lucky or good. i think bill nelson is lucky. republicans have a primary problem. >> his dad had a great record. his dad is was popular. >> his dad was popular but that was many years ago. his son is not running the solid campaign. >> the great grandfather to this guy was the owner of the philadelphia as. this guy, does he have the manic name or snn. >> he has a magic name but he doesn't have a animal ib campaign. frts h the republican problem in florida is the same as missouri. they don't have an obvious candidate. they don't have a clear winner. unless you get one you will tip it to the incumbent unless florida goes heavily for mitt romney. >> let me ask you about coat tails. your theme tonight larry. i guess because i come from a state of ticket splitters,

pennsylvania. i'm surprised that power you've given to the presidential line here. >> chris, we're in a polarized era, increasingly polarized. and because of that, fewer and fewer voters who show up at a presidential election are willing to cross ticket vote. they just stay in the same column. if they start democratic, they vote democratic from the courthouse to the white house. same thing if they are voting republican. the same is in senate and white house is th year. >> and you buy that? sounds like you do. >> i do for the most part. i think you can't underestimate at this point what ad wars will look like, especially in states like florida. florida will see campaign ads like never before and they get a lot of traffic. it'll be very negative between the super pacs and campaigns. voters will be sick and tired of it and polarized. >> following your theorist coat

tails, larry? >>? the president is re-elected by several percentage point democrat could end up with 51-49 or 50-50 with biden breaking the tie. if the president wins narrowly, i think the republicans are likely it take control 51-49, 52 ksh-48. >> and that's a bad situation, a president without a congress. >> well it is gridlock even with 53-47. but that's what they are good at, talking. >> what do you think, sheera? >> i think if the election was tomorrow, i think democrats pairly hold the senate at 50-50 assuming if obama wins even by a little bit. >> it scares me. here we go into two years and four years of divided government without a mandate on earth side. without mandate how do you cut the deal to your side's favor. one last thought you from larry.

how do you get government, with a government cut in half. >> i think we will have gridlock in all probability. >> okay wp thank you very much. larry from university of virginia. well known and perhaps best guy out there. and sheera from roll call. what a great opportunity to have you on. >> thank you. the group pushing the stand your ground laws across the country are feeling the heat. they've lost so much corporate support, that's money behind them wz as a result of trayvon martin case, they are getting out of stand your ground business. this is the political side of that case. that's ahead and this is "hardball." 42 mpg on the highway. actually, it's cruze e-co, not ec-o. just like e-ither. or ei-ther. or e-conomical. [ chuckling ] or ec-onomical. pa-tato, po-tato, huh? actually, it's to-mato, ta-mato. oh, that's right. [ laughs ] [ car door shuts ] [ male announcer ] visit your local chevy dealer today. now very well qualified lessees can get a 2012 chevy cruze ls for around $159 per month. e.p.a. estimated 36 miles per gallon highway.

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get a great plan and low cost investments i bathed it in miracles. director: [ sighs ] cut! sorry to interrupt. when's the show? well, if we don't find an audience, all we'll ever do is rehearse. maybe you should try every door direct mail. just select the zip codes where you want your message to be seen, print it yourself, or we'll help you find a local partner and you find the customers that matter most. brilliant. clifton, show us overjoyed. no, too much. jennessa. ah! a round of applause. [ applause ] [ male announcer ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail. we're back. that organization responsible for spreading the stand your ground law across the country is

now standing down in the wake of the trayvon martin shooting. the american legislative exchange council, it's called, a group associated with promoting conservative causes generally is ending its work on social initiatives, including expansive self-defense laws like, stand your ground. in the end the money talked. many top corporate sponsors as is often the case withdraw their support from the group called allen after the trayvon martin case. catch these big names. coka coal cobalta, pepsi co-kraft foods and the bill and melinda gates foundation. lisa graves is the executive director of center for media and democracy which fought the laufs an steve kro knacky writes for salon. thanks for joining us, by the way. tell us what the believe the impact of the trayvon martin case in terms of funding this

organization which has been pushing these stand your ground laws. >> sure. alec is a group largely funded by corporations. over 90% comes from everything but legislative dues even though it describes stefl as a group focused on legislators. this group lost funders in the last few weeks as people learned about alec's roles and promoting stand your brown laws. there was a closed door meeting where this was a plod el. wal-mart was co-chair. alec ratified the bill to take it nationally and since this it spread across the country. >> let's go to steve on this. give me a sense if you can, the impact of this case you have been covering here. trayvon martin, we don't have a jury yet or case even yet. we have an indictment. >> well, yeah, i yeah. a and you mention that there are 25 states now that have laws like this on the books. some sort of a legislative standpoint, that's a question now. if alec is not going to push for

more laws like this you can the question is what about the ones on theyou can the question is what about the ones on the books now. frts you look at the states where the laws take place, they tend to be more the conservative, nr after ta frien states. so you'll have powerful resistance from the republicans. and that brings you to the broader problem which is you have a tragedy which is putting all this in the news. eventually that tragedy will phase from the the news. if you want to get laws off the books, you need a concerted push. and you really need one of the political parties, one of the national political parties making this a point. republicans aren't going to do it. democrats decided about ten years ago after al gore, they won't do it either. so you lose momentum. >> here's what i want to worry about because i'm a gun control person generally speaking. i worry about it this push. people want to have a right to carry, open carry into restaurants, open carry into

bars. it's going back to the wild west. is that going to tap because the trayvon martin situation? is that going to in any way dampen that push for more and more guns on display in public places when there's booze around and stuff like that going on? >> i don't think so. certainly the nra gave scott walker one of its biggest awards for pushing conceal carry in wisconsin along with this bill in wisconsin. so the nra isn't going away. but alec is a pr move because it will not do might anything to r the damage that's already been done. >> steve, let me go to you about the organization apparently pulling back from some of its pro gun offensives. it's been my sense that there's a pretty clear partisan aspect to this, that the republican party across the country, wherever it has legislative power is pushing. and it's ending its controversial work on voter i.d.

laws. since 2011, 17 state legislature s -- what you can tell us about alec pulls out of this you cof they keep doing this? >> the question is how much damage has already been done. at this point alec pulling out in a i way, they can kind of declare victory because the laws have been enacted in so many states. to give you a practical example, the next major election on the u.s. cal deendar will be the ca in wisconsin. they put up the voter i.d. la thanks in part to alec. this will be a have i close race and you've got a law on the books now that i think most people would look at objectively and say the practical effect of will this law is to give the republicans an advantage. >> that's right. this is a bill that's been pushed primarily by republican

wlenl wlenlgts legislatures and it will make it harder for college students to vote, for people who don't have driver's licenses but may have proof of i.d., have their lease or utility bill who could vote before, it will make it harder for them. >> can it change the results? >> i think it does. it if you change off 1 or 2%, it can change a huge effect. >> okay, thanks so much for joining us. we'll be more of this one last thought for you, steve, the whole question of the power of the board room, we're seeing it all the time. these organizations, although they seem to be totally ideological, they take a lot of money from mainstream brand name, coca-cola. how is this going to be a pattern, is this going to be a way for progressive forces to stop some of this? >> i think that's sort of the key to what alec was doing was they were kind of operating in the shadows. it was a back doorway to pursue sort of a national conservative agenda without going through

washington, d.c. where all of this stuff gets noticed very easily. you go to the state capitals where you know there aren't big legislative staff. the media has been severely cutting back how they cover politics and state governments. so you can slip these things through a lot easier and a lot of these corporations probably didn't know what they were sponsoring. >> okay. your thought on that? >> it is the case that you can buy legislatures pretty cheaply in the states. some of the corporations are giving like $500 donations directly to a particular candidate and -- >> they just got to you. anyway, thank you. just kidding. hang for you that reporting. when we return, let me finish with a tribute to the man which is said to be forever young who touched so many of us when we were young. dick clark. i wish i could keep it this way. [ dr. rahmany ] after a dental cleaning, plaque quickly starts to grow back. but new crest pro-health clinical plaque control reduces plaque and is clinically proven to help keep it from coming back. new crest pro-health clinical plaque control toothpaste. how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions?

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let me finish tonight with this. i was thinking back on my paper boy days when i spent all those slow summer afternoon dlifing the philadelphia bulletin. it was a long lonely route, about five mile, and i had to ride my bike just to get to it, but there was something idyllic about it given all that's happened since of course. i was thinking late today about that because i remember standing he doorway of somebody on a friday afternoon, that was collection day, waiting for the customer to get me that 30 cents for the week of newspapers. and listening to band stand on the tv set. band stand was a big deal back then, especially for teenagers. it was a place each afternoon, our place, where kids a little

older than me became celebrities, with names hike mary, south philly, the host of that so he was of course dick clark who died today and i wonder where all those kids were when they got the news. probably request enginein jerse, probably in their 70s in the streets of philadelphia. dick clark had a way of connect going to us kid z. he cared about our music, our fun, and about us. he was a little older, but not a day less hip. so tonight i want to say in how much i share in all this. we philly people were really proud that band stand started in our old neighborhoods and i say best to you, mr. charactelark, o to you, mary, wherever you are, who made south philly such a famous part of our great country. long before rocky, long before even cheesesteaks. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. po