good morning from new york. i'm chris hayes. the u.n. is expected to vote on whether to send as many as 300 unarmed military observers to syria amid concerns from the u.s. and other countries that syria is not fully observing the cease-fire there. and the total of six secret service agents resigned in the colombian prostitution scandal. senator chuck grassley short of calling the president stupid is not clear about the white house records will be checked as well. back and forth between president obama and mitt romney over romney's privileged upbringing, but i want to start with my "story of the week." the meaning of green. tomorrow is earth day, you can probably tell if you saw the pulsing green peacock on msnbc. this is green is the week. the idea is green is universal aside from being a depth exercise, it's rather easy, personal and digestible. given how daunting the facts are

about climate change, how monumental our environment challenges seem, there's really something to be said in breaking it down into small, discreet changes in our behave perp hence one small thing aspect of the campaign which offers visitors to the website, a menu of small things like purchase clothing made from organic cotton, power down by computer or carpool to work one day a week. it isn't the first or last campaign lifestyle magazine or cultural outlet to conflate with salvation. these campaigns further a mind-set that allows to us think we can dispatch our responsibility to heal the planet through a shower or slightly lower thermostat that can have an effect, because here is the unpleasant though necessary truth -- we cannot mitigate climate through change. it is a collective action problem. the most profound problem in the history of human life on the

planet. the only ultimate solution requires collective action by way of government intervention and regulation. that said, there is a core truth one small thing does capture. there is no single silver bullet solution to climate change. it is a very big problem, but luckily for [uák it's a big problem that can be broken down into small and more managementabmanagement ab manageable ones. there are climate wedges that start here in 1957 and show how carbon emissions rose to an estimated 8 billion metric tons by the year 2007. they project by 2057, mid-century, emissions will be up here, 16 billion metric tons a year raising the world's temperature by an estimated 9 degrees. basically game over for the planet. now, this is where researchers say we need to get to do avert catastrophic disaster. the flat path to keeping our

planet to the status quo. that triangle there, the space between our projected path if we continue business as usual and where we need to be to keep things the way they are now is what they call the stabilization triangle. the stabilization triangle is crucially important to understand because it represents the big problem we need to break up into smaller, manageable ones. within think triangle of eight wedge, eight things we need to do immediately to keep things from spiraling out of control over the next 50 years. each is a big deal. for instance, doubling average fuel efficiency is one way. reducing the number of average miles traveleded per car, per year from 10,000 to 5,000. one part of the wedge. or increasing our current solar capacity by 700 times is another way. if these seem totally daunting things can be done closer to home at the state and local levelsç as well. california started requiring more energy efficient buildings and appliances in the '70s and now produces 10% less greenhouse

emissions. new york city announced soliciting bids to top the former fresh kills land phil on staten island with a wind farm or solar panels. all these efforts add. for instance, wind power, you can see on the map here, increasing wind power capacity by 25 times is one of the climate wedges. there are even ways to think creatively about these wedges that don't depend on the legislative process. the solar electric light fund, white house ax to electricity, solar panels on a trajectory of power not relying on polluting and diesel generators. in cambridge, massachusetts volunteers for the home energy efficiency team are organizing retrofits for home there's and a new start-up called rewire seeking to use the online organizing techniques perfected by the obama campaign to help it spread virally. if we're going to get to 700 times current capacity it will

require a social and cultural shift not unlike what happened with facebook or the arab spring on twitter. all of this requires us to work with each other, to work collectively and notkc alone. individual consumer choices must change in the aggregate but getting the scale of change requires us to engage with each other, not with just our own cotton shirts or shorter showers. it requires us to be citizens and not just consumers. avoiding climate disaster will require not just one small thing but many small çthings, and ma large things and many things in between. joining me today we have former bush epa administrator and new jersey governor christine todd whitman aung of "it's my party, too" and co-chair of national leadership counsel. sam seder and co-host of a radio show. victoria, communications director for the group latino decisions and visiting scholar at university of texas austin,

and author of the book "promises betrayed." bob herbert. it's great to have you all here. so let's talk about climate, which is probably my favorite topic, because i think before we can get to -- right now i think here's the problem. right? if you cover politics, you recognize that there's nothing going to happen in the senate legislatively, just as a descriptive matter of where we are politically. at the same time, you know, the planet doesn't care about filibuster. i mean, the cash sn still going into the air and the science is the science. which produces panic, i think, in me, and just a feeling that we're, what do we do? so trying to think of ways that we can do things that aren't happening at the level of legislation. governor, i wanted to talk to you, because you are someone who believes in the science, scientific consensus on global

warming. you're part of a party that has turned away, i think it's fair to say, the center of gravity in the partyç has gone in reverse. it wasn't controversial i think within, among the republicans ten years ago and it now is controversial. can you talk me through a little why that has been the case? i really want to understand this. >> i wish i knew. you know, because frankly, environmentalism is republican. we started basically the national parks, the first land set aside, abraham lincoln setting aside yosemite. richard nixon, the clean air act, safe drinking water act, all of those things were added to bush 41 and reagan, and it's continued through it. why we sudly hadenly have gotte this point is endemic. every issue is looked at through the partisan political prism rather than the policy prism. it's not about how do i solve the problem, it's can i get another vote in caucus or is

this going to enhance my ability to get another percentage point, and this all goes to government regulation, and big government getting into your backyard. >> right. >> and that's where it started to fall apart for republicans. >> well, it's interesting that something you just said i want to dig in on, because you said it goes to partisanship. part of what it seems to me is, if liberals aren't for something, then reflexively, conservatives feel like, i belonger skeptical, suspicious or they must be against it. what's happened with climate change and just the basic you know, vision of it was, al gore made this movie, err go this movie? >> i will also say the environmentalists bear responsibility because we've been too flip.ç environmentalists have been too flip. first you say, humans cause climate change. no. come on. the earth has been changing, the climate changes since the earth was formed. we had an ice age. to just say humans cause it, gives skeptics a huge opening. and, of course, we went through

the long period of time where we called it global warming. when you have, as we did not this last winter but the winter before, one of the coldest with snow, it gives skeptics a wide open. that's whatting ober time. it's changed. by trying to stake these absolutes and making it seem as if the world's going to end tomorrow because of it, we have in fact fed into that kind of -- that kind of thinking fed into that who don't want to take action because they see it as a zero end game. >> sam, you are skeptical? >> i am, of that. the idea you're going to deny the preponderance of scientific information based upon you don't like the attitude of the people who are arguing on the other side, i mean what we've seen over the past 30 years is conservative, self-identified conservatives. the most educated conservatives have actually lost their faith in science. it's almost fallen off a cliff if you look at a graph. i think it's even beyond the fact of sheer partisanship.

i don't think it's just a question of we're going to oppose this, because liberals are in favor of it in some way. i think there has been a concerted effort by the conservative movement in this country to delegitimize science and the idea that society and government2can band together to actually do something. >> i don't totally disagree but i will say part of that comes because we have made broad statements that sort of take care of all the problems and lumps everything together. >> this pre-dates the idea of al gore and inconvenient truth and -- >> it's been coming for some time. >> well, i think what we're seeing is, you see the -- the distrust of science actually pre-date a lot of the arguments that are popularly made about global warms or global climate change. so it's very hard to attribute it to the flitness of the argument, because you know, there's a lot of arguments that are flip and people don't just -- >> that's right. >> that's exacerbated it, but i

will say it does go back. the environmental protection agency back in the '90s had a finding on a chemical used in apples they said was a potential carcinogen so they banned it. nearly put the apple business in washington state out of business entirely. only to discover a year later that, in fact, it wasn't a potential carcinogen. so, again, the people who say -- >> government and people are aware of that. >> and that feeds the chatter in the background that starts to lead to building up this skepticism. >> it also seems to me we're eliding a huge factor in this, which is the most profitable corporations in the history of human civilization on the planet of have an incredible stake continuing to put carbon in the air. the entire, traction industry of fossil fuels. bp made $26 billion,ç and extr carbon in the sayre not priced, and zero sum. you mentioned that.

i want to play this. so reveals. senator james inhofe on rachel's program talking how he came to be a denier of the scientific consensus on global warming. listen to how he articulates his own rationale for coming to that on your side of this issue when i was chairing that committee when i first heard about this. i thought it must be true until i found out what it cost. >> it must be true, until i found out what it cost. which is to say, reversed engineered his science based on what it will cost to solve it. i want to hear more about republicans and chimt chanlimat. brainstorm with a republican weatherman and what he has to say about global warming. we'll find out right after this. t in the middle of nowhere, is always headed somewhere. to give it a sense of direction, at&t created a mobile asset solution to protect and track everything. so every piece of equipment knows where it is, how it's doing or where it goes next.

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paul douglas, a meteorologist from minnesota and founder of weather nation tv, a new 24-hour channel for weather. paul, thanks for joining us. >> good to be with you, chris. good morning. >> you look like you're in a space command center from some distopeic sci-fi novel you have your finger poised oever the but that button that's going to destroy the world. >> that's right. be careful. >> you're a republican, believer in small government, but also a meteorologist, and your ideological disposition doesn't have any effect on whether the physics, on what the earth is doing climatewise. how much traction have you gotten with fellow republicans in trying to take that argument and talk to people about this?ç >> i feel like i'm swimming upstream, but that said, we seem to hear from the far right. i think the what i call the common sense moderate middle has been largely silent, and i still

think that most democrats, most republicans are somewhere in the middle of that bell curve and still respond to logic, still respond to reason. still respond to sound science. and i hope at some point we get back on track. my fear is that it may take a couple of climate calamities. what happened in europe, 2003, 30,000 people dead, is it going to take that kind of weather disaster for congress to finally get on track and start coming up with solutions? i'm an optimist, but, chris, i'm just responding to the data. i was skeptical in the 1980s, when james hansen was testifying before congress with nasa, but just looking at the data, we've had a steady accumulation of coincidences, and i tell people, the climate is a puzzle. and the paradox is, by the time the last piece of that puzzle falls into place, it's going to be too late to do anything about it. there's enough evidence today for people that have their eyes wide open and are truly looking

at the data to make informed decisions. >> you brought up calamity, !]wáq i am increasinglye idea that that's some massageness event is the only way to force the public to respond, unfortunately. one of the things we -- in our editorialç meetings we really don't want to commit the fallacy of equating weather and climate. right? a lot of that, when the winter was cold, fox news was showing the fact, oh, it's snowing in front of the white house. obviously cold warming isn't happening. at the same time, at a certain point these data points add up. the boston marathon run this weeshgs second hottest on record. the marathon organizers sent an e-mail out to runners saying don't consider this a race. take it easy, because you will be in danger and we had 15,000 record highness march. how should i talk about this, in a way that is scientifically responsible?

>> i think what you can say is that we've entered weather. -- i'd say it's -- this is a new regime. the weather on steroids analogy. you know, would barry bonds have been able to hit 762 home runs without the alleged steroid use? maybe. but it increased his base state. it increased the possibility that every time he was up to bat, he would hit one out of the ballpark and so it is now with the weather. you know, we're two drips warmer. northern latitude's five, six, seven degrees warmer. a warmer atmosphere holds more water vapor increases the potential for extreme weather, floods, extremes -- dry area, getting drier, wet areas are getting wetter. it's this new weather on steroids. i tell people it's like mother nature has a remote krog, a dvr, putting our seasons on fast forward and turning severe weather up to an 11. it's always been at about aç 5.

now we're at an 11 and i'm seeing things on the weather map, chris that in my 35 years tracking the weather i never, of thought i would see. and at some point a sane, rational person looks at this drip, drip of evidence and says, something has to be going on. it is not your grandfather's weather anymore. i'm an optimist. we'll figure out solutions, mostly market-based solutions, but government needs to set the bar and then get the heck out of the way and let the markets figure out what's going to happen. you know what's going to happen, chris? smart companies are going to look at the liabilities involved, and they're going to look at the opportunities, and they're already on the right track. >> right. >> in spite of government inaction, in spite of no clear vision at the top, the smart companies, including insurance company, the military, the navy. look at what the navy is doing to wean themselves off oil.

it's already happening. and when my republican colleagues and friends, i hope i still have a few friends, realize that there is plenty on the table for the chinese and the europeans and the asians, where there is no debate about climate science. when they realize they're leaving money behind, that's when they're going to get with the program. >> christine, had you something? >> one of the interesting thing, it was ronald reagan who made climate change part of the national security council discussions. he recognized this was something that was going to impact the way we deploy our navy, haveç to respond to international crises around the world that this was something that we couldn't afford to ignore. and yet we hear that it's republicans that hate climate, and i would agree with what paul was saying nap it's the -- more extreme conservative elements that there -- >> but polling shows it is also the majority of republicans.

there's been polling on this. i want to read this quickly, you brought up the pentagon. this is a pentagon report. this is their quadrennial defense review, long-term strategic planning saying climate change and energy are two key issues playing a sig captain role in shaping the future of our environment. it maze act as an accelerant of instability placing a burden on civilian institutions and militaries around the world. >> i think you made the essential point when you follow the money. you have this energy industry that is so invested in the whole issue, but i think, you know, i don't know if we'll gelt the republicans to change. i don't think conservatives will change on this issue and it is fundamentally an economic issue on that tide, but i think the other side has not done a good job. i think again and again whether it's environmentalists or liberals of whatever stripe, have not fought back hard enough against the organized right in this country. and so we need more creative,

more aggressive efforts to make it clear to the public that climate change is a real problem. >> i think i disagree with that, and part of the reason i wanted paul doug loins and you christine i literally just want to hang out and çbrainstorm wi you guys. what can we do? what can i do on my liberal television program to make it -- >> try and explain -- try and explain what is happening to human beings and to the planet, because of the policies of people who are doing things before the almighty dollar. make that clear. >> paul, weigh in, victoria you as well right after we take this quick commercial break. right ou. he was just... "get me an aspirin"... yeah... i knew that i was doing the right thing, when i gave him the bayer. i'm on an aspirin regimen... and i take bayer chewables. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. so he's a success story...

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they have put forward. yes, there is your camp of avid deniers but also that camp that is in the middle, but they're barraged by bp, by clean coal and keep seeing advertisements and they're warm and they're fuzzy and they start to think, there's no problem here. no problem with the climate. or even more than that one of the things is that it transmits the message actually we're already diversifying energy sources? right? all sorts of green energy. the fact soev the last decade we've been more and more reliant on coal. >> actually, that's going down. below 50. >> now below 50. part of that actually is because of a substitution to natural gas which is very cheap and so -- in fact, i think this year there are no new coal-fired power plants supposed to come online this year. which is progress. >> what is the counter to that? except for the program like this, the public doesn't hear much about climate change or global warming. you have to be really aggressive in making your point. that's why we don't have a draft

net, because there was this rising up against the draftç during vietnam and we don't have a draft anymore. there should be a rising up on climate change. >> interesting. >> and a number of other issues. >> a good parallel. this forced everybody to pay attention to the war in a way they couldn't outsource a war. a graph of coverage on the sunday shows. climate coverage on abc, nbc, cbs and fox. and that's climate change covered on sunday's shows over the last three years. here's john kerry talking about how he can't even gain traction in conversations with his colleagues about the issue. you can't talk about climate now. people turn off. it's extraordinary. only for national security and jobs will they open their mind, and he said that's true even among democrats. paul, how do you, one of the problems we face from an editorial perspective is finding news hooks. right? it's like, there are more parts per million of carbon in the air on wednesday. that's not a headline. how do you sort of introduce,

inject it into the conversation? >> nobody wants to hear bad news. i understand that, chris, and sociologists, psychologists say most of us won't accept a problem until there's a viable solution. >> yes. >> i think that's part of the problem here. it's that we don't really have that blueprint for moving forward. i wish president obama, he's kind of dancing around the edges a little bit, but there's such an opportunity for him or for mr. romney to seize the ball and say you know what? we have carbon resources. $10 trillion estimated of carbon still in the ground. let's mine it. let's drill it. butç simultaneously, we're goi to ramp up these new carbon neutral energy options. there's -- as you said, there's no silver bullet. there is plenty of green buck shot and we have the entrepreneur, the smart minds in this country, chris, to solve this problem, and it's already

starting to happen but we really need to ramp up faster. >> pushing back briefly say that that approach was precisely the approach they've taken in the act and subsequent bill. yes, even though the democrats pass it on the house, filibustered bite republicans in the senate. republican co-sponsor took his name off the bill. on the agenda. i covered the henry, waxman markie bill. trying to get it passed. in the absence, let's subsidize green energy since we can't increase the cost of carbon and the response has been scandal mongering about solyndra and solar powpower. seems you can't win. >> how do you present this? make it relevant to people. there are times when i think we've lost the climate argument and we ought to just be talking about emissions. talking about the greenhouse gases, what they mean. >> interesting. >> if you can say something that is not contagious as an epf asthma in this country. the single largest cause of

missed school days, over 10 million missed school days. that's very real to people. every time i go into a school and ask kids, do they know anybody, have asthma in their family? three quarters of hands go up. we don't know what causes asthma. we know fine particulate matter in the air is triggerç an atta or exacerbate an attack. we need to find more instances where it really gets back to the individual to say, this matters to you. this stuff dirty. if nothing else, it's dirty. you don't want to believe in climate change -- >> i also think people don't understand these emissions stay in the atmosphere for centuries, if not millennia. you know, this is the exhaust from -- you know, whatever. it's just out there. it's there for your kids, it's there for your grandchildren and great-grandchildren. >> but what do you care if you're unemployeed? i live in texas, in austin. it's easy to sit here and talk about particles. when there are folk, south texas

the most economically depressed region in the state and sudly have this shale gas boom. there is jobs. they don't have enough people to fit the jobs and the democrats in texas are for the shale boom. so it's interesting where it's that trade-off and trying to find that public policy balance where the livelihood of people's day-to-day is balanced off with air quality. >> i still think the argument ultimately, you can't every day talk about, well, we still have a problem with climate change. >> right. >> it's the issue, i think, gets back to this notion of government being able to take collective action. we can talk tab being entrepreneurial and relevant to individuals, but every time you try to make it viral to individuals, they look ots their window and see it snowing. climate change is not a problem anymore. so i think there's a more fundamental argument that needs to be waged by, by the democrats or the liberals inç this count that government and society can band together to do things.

i mean to look back on things like essentially repairing and some respects the ozone layer. that's just indicative of what can be done with broader policy. >> one of the things people talk about is sulfur dioxide. so3? i think? right? causing acid rain. we solved the problem. sulfur dioxide. an amazing accomplishment. >> we do more, still need to do more. don't forget, states are acting. the good news, the states really are laboratories of democracy and they are acting. i happen to believe the federal government would of act, say, fine, we'll take that as our base. right now they're pushing and that's actually a way to get things to happen, because what whar doing is creating a patchwork quilt of regulations making it very difficult for companies to operate. >> a stake in this, look at pennsylvania, and look at ohio. they're pushing for moratoriums for fracking. still not quite there yet, but

because they have felt the effects of earthquakes and dirty drinking water. so, yes, they're looking out their window cy seeing it snowing but feeling the earth move under them. so i do think we'll see it at a state-by-state level. >> paul douglas, meteorologist and founder of weather nation tv. so great to have you on. come back when you return from the space shuttle that you're in. >> chris, thank you for what you're doing, just talking about this subject, keeping it in the public eye. it's a shame it take as major disaster, i think, for people to talk about this,ç but this is possibly the biggest challenge of our time, and i'm still optimistic we're going to figure this out. >> all right. a big environmental issue. immunity for big oil, right after this. m a crowd... you're probably muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. love the air.

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not their fault pushing blame 249 transocean, the drilling cabineter that owned the rig and halliburton which did the cement work but bp had the ultimate authority. why they've tried to lessen damage to as 20ds billion fund to be pay victims of the oil spill. analysis by financial advisers puts the total cost at $63 billion by the time this whole thing is done. on wednesday bp present add judge with a tentative $8 billion settlement for roughly 100,000 fishermen, hotel owners and other plaintiffs. the significant thing isn't that it could turn out to be the largest class action settlement of but it might be the last time big oil will of have to pay for its mistakes because there was a hearing thursday on the domestic fuels protection act. a bipartisan bill protecting all oil companies foreign and domestic from any liability for deadly accidents resulting from fuel production for transport. it's purpose it says, to provide liability protection for claims based on the design, manufacture, sale, offer for sale, introduction to commerce

or use of certain fuels and fuel additives and for other purposes. nice and broad there. this is where we are two years after the oil spill, which the white house called the greatest environmental disaster of its kind in our history with bp back to drilling at 6,000 feet in the gulf and people in the gulf tired of suffering. >> the outside don't help us. we're going to die. we need their voices to help strengthenç ours. so if they don't help us, we're going to die. and bp is going to sit and watch us die. >> and the [ bleep ] politicians make me sick. i done been to d.c., all dressed up, button down slacks. then you catch them in public, oh, i'm a publicly embarrass this person and make them make a promise. i'm going to make sure everything's all right. governor jindal stood there in my 5-year-old's face, i'm going to make sure everything's okay,

he said. and my baby -- >> representative for bp to join us on the show today, but they declined. i think one of the things that's striking to me about the two-year anniversary and sometimes -- i never like to do stuff on anniversaries, feels like an artificial news pack but i wanted to do this. if you look back at the footage it's all we talked about about 50 days. all watched that thing gush. it was the front page every day. completely -- and then it's like -- ooh. and never heard from again. like, oh, well -- that's done. back to drilling and there's the question of, have the people gotten restitution? and has there been accountability? and also what are we doing to avoid the next possible disaster from drilling and it seems to me from the reading i've been doing, folks talking to in the gulf, that there's not been a lot done to emil or yate this. >> spoke to one of the attorneys on the steering committee's

this. the settlement is pretty big. the $8 billionç fig sir the ur figure bp is putting out there as a way of reassuring investors, shareholders. the problem is, even if it's -- regardless of how many times, any billion it is, it doesn't go near enough to change the structure and the hundreds of decisions to cut corners essentially to save money that went into upgrading this disaster. and so when you start to see legislation that's actually going to sort of decrease that liability, we have a real problem in this country, because there doesn't seem to be any way to change the behavior of these corporations, because we see regulatory bodies being corrupted in some respects and we see an attempt now to keep civil response capped essentially. >> and one of the things we're seeing now that i find really frustrating and strange about this situation is, there's a lot

of science conducted, but all that science is essentially under lock and key because of the fact of active litigation. it's very hard to get public information about what's going on. >> that's why they settled. >> right. yes. >> that's why they settledwep can hear stories about shrimp without eye sockets which we're hearing a lot of now. all that stuff that could have come out in a trial would have been very problematic. >> an investigative piece coming up after this break. laces? really? slip-on's the way to go. more people do that, security would be like -- there's no charge for the bag. thanks. i know a quiet little place where we can get some work done. there's a three-prong plug. i have club passes. [ male announcer ] get the mileage card with special perks on united, like a free checked bag, united club passes, and priority boarding. thanks. ♪ okay. what's your secret? [ male announcer ] the united mileageplus explorer card. get it and you're in.

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>> you wrote a great piece in the nation this week about what the gulf is like two years later. for people that haven't been paying attention to the story, now coming back to it. you've been spending the last few years on it. what has been overlooked? what should they know? what do people feel like in the gulf about the effects of this? >> this is an ongoing tragedy, the most important thing. remember it began with the death of 11 men on the deepwater horizon. the beginning of what unleashed what, if it wasn't for saddam hussein intentionally releasing oil in 1991 to attack u.s. soldiers would be hands down the world's largest oil disaster without comparison in the history of the world. it impacted five states, 21 million people an enormous body of water and economically rich and diverse body of water, and the consequences began april 20,

2010 and continue aggressively today. we can expect them to continue aggressively into the future. what is being felt, i think some of the greatest problems felt are basically on every light form that is dependent on that water. enormous harm to species living in the gulf. decline that they won't come back. enormous declines in the

it contains volatile organic compounds. it contains a group of chemicals called pahs that are in duration and amount of exposure deadly to life forms. deadly to humans. deadly to sea life.

deadly to plant life. and when you add to that the 2 million gallons of chemical dispersantç applied which saiso made of toxins, dr. james diaz, one of the many doctors i interviewed for my piece, a toxic gumbo to which they've been exposed. so that oil did not magically disappear. it's still on the bottom of the gulf. it's still in the water. it still washes up on beaches. i was just on grand isle yesterday in louisiana and picked up tarballs, picked up oil. you can scoop it up on beaches every day, and that toxic mixture is still impacting the sea life that is supposed to be living on the bottom of the ocean. supposed to be living in the ocean. if you kill out parts down the line, or fill them with toxins, the next species that eats the toxic sea life gets impacted by

it, and that includes us. so one of the focals of my story this week was about the human health crisis. >> i want to hear about that. you go into detail. right after a quick break. so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste and whole grain oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios. energy in america.help lower cholesterol?

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you can donate a stitch in america's flag for the 2012 olympic games in london. help raise our flag, add your stitch at teamusa.org. back talking about the two-year anniversary of the oil spill. christine, i want to talk to you about something. one of the things that happens in the wake of disaster is government says either things are okay or things are not okay. right? and this is something i've spent a lot of time thinking about writing a book, and right now when you direct questions to bp about, say, the safety of the seafood, they say, don't trust us. trust the government. the government checking says it's okay. when you were at the epa, you had, you guys lived through 9/11. there was the pronouncements ampwards that came from the epa, the air was safe to breathe. later turned out not to be safe,

not as safe as had been claimed. iç wonder to the degree to whi people feel we can trust those pronouncements, they're made in good faith and not corrupted by the need to say that things are okay, because that's what's politically expedient? >> i can't speak to what's happening in the gulf but can tell you on air quality. the air quality in lower manhattan in general was safe to breathe and that was based on scientific fact. on the pile, entirely different. no. it was not. needed rett operators. that's where government gets into a problem in trying to deliver a bifurcated message like that. it did seriously undermine people's confidence in government, because it's all been lumped together and said, you said the air was safe to breathe and people are dying. people who rescued on the pile i believe absolutely are having health effects from having breathed that air, but we always told them, epa told them, every day in meetings and the rest of it, they should wear respirators. >> there's a distinction.

>> there's a distinction, which is hard to make. i don't know the gulf. i haven't been part of epa's testing of the waters and testeditested ing of the food supply. you have to look over time and what it does to the sea life and the ecology over time and then how that affects humans. >> antonia -- >> there is -- no question. you look at antonia's piece and i have to think it's important, and we need to know what she's saying, and it needs to be out there, and i know that there are a lot of those -- i would bet that there are some of those in the gulfç who are torn. is this a good thing or is it scaring people away so they'll buy even less shrimp and won't come visit? that's their day-to-day economy. >> and political pressure locally saying thing, good? right you don't want to wave the flag and say, this is the most devastated part of country. >> exactly. don't come. >> antonia, will you stick

arou around? i want you to talk about if there is a trust gap that's opened up down in the gulf between what the pronouncements are, whether they're coming from the government or bp and what people seeing on the ground. more on that after we take this break. at aviva, we do things differently. we're bringing humanity back to life insurance. that's why only aviva rewards you with savings for getting a check-up. it's our wellness for life program, with online access to mayo clinic. see the difference at avivausa.com. the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach. he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number.

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this is the land of giants. ♪ guts. glory. ram. good morning from new york. i'm chris hayes here with josh borrow and bob herbert from the think tank. thank in absentia, christine todd whitman. did not get to thank her in person for joining us. and antonia juhasz from new orleans who's writing a book about the oil spill and just talking about trust, whether you were trust pronouncements.

the proclamation of the air safe after 9/11 when christine todd whitman was head of the epa. found that misleading. is there a gap between what the government and bp and what people are experiencing? >> absolutely. i just want to say in response to secretary whitman's last statement, what's very important to understand about the gulf of mexico right now and this oil spill is that it covers five beautiful states. on every given day, therqku a beautiful beach in the gulf of mexico, and on any given day there's an oil beach. on any given day there are healthy people and on any given day there are hundreds of thousands of sick people. and if we're going to do anything about the latter, harmful ongoing impacts, we have to acknowledge their existence in the same we've we've acknowledged there's a healthy part of the gulf we're trying to move that, that both are happening simultaneously and the problem with the information that's been coming out from the federal government and from bp

is that it's tried to paint just one picture, and that's the rosy picture, and focus in on that, which means we're ignoring these continued harmful impacts so that the quintessential moment in the bp gulf oil spill was on august 15th when the obama administration, several members of it, got on television and announced that the vast majority of the oil is gone. the scientists who wrote the report that they were referring to immediately started calling reporters and getting on the news saying, that's not what we found. what we found was the opposite. that the majority of the oil is still there. and that was the critical, one of the critical breaking points. when we look, for example, at seafood safety in the gulf, the federal drug administration decided that gulf seafood is safe. the reality is that that study was based on a 176-pound man who eats the average diet of an american -- across the united

states. in the gulf coast -- well, for one thing around the whole world, the whole country, we have women and we have children who$p+e different weights, generally than men, which means their exposure to the chemicals in the seafood affects them more harmfully. women who are pregnant, coulding prell nanlt, pass on the toxins to their children, but in the gulf coast in particular, they eat a lot more seafood. if you've of been to louisiana you know this. >> right. >> and there also are su siftens eaters, they eat what they catch. to for the people of the gulf coast, seafood, not as much a concern for the men on the show, for example. >> i'll keep that in mind. cut down on my gulf shrimp consumption, which, of course, the last thing the people in the gulf want to hear. you just said a number of, hundreds of thousands of people are sick. that sounds like a big number and i want you to just back up that citation. how do we know how many are

sick? how can we attribute the causes to the spill? how -- how can we responsibly conclude what the cause and effect is? >> one of the things that's been very important about this oil spill is that it comes in the wake of the valdez, and one of the great victories of the valdez was that under the bush senior administration, the congress acted, and we got a great piece of legislation called the oil pollution act. and the response to this disaster, significantly larger disaster, we've not had a single piece of legislation passed. the good news, we have the oil pollution act which required a lot of immediate on the ground responses. it also required a lot of infrastructure to be put into place, andç a legal structure which lawyers could start responding to the disaster, and the result of all of that is that right now we have a medical settlement on the table which is the result of a lot of study, a lot of activism by gulf residents which looks at a

minimum about 200,000 people basically considered to be part of this group and the reason why they're automatically considered is because we know that based on where they live and also based and cleanup workers, about 140,000 of whom should be in this group but only 90,000 are, the cleanup workers and those who live on the coast were constantly exposed to this enormous amount of oil and chemicals and they were not being provided with adequate health care, with adequate protection. a government accountability study in my article, i cite this starting to look at whistle-blowers and what they're reporting from their cleanup exposure and what we're seeing are the expected results of exposures to the chemicals in oil and correctsit. as minimal as skin rashes, although those that have them wouldn't call them minimal. they're called bp rash. the bp moment. the memory loss people are

suffering because the chemicals are attracted to the brain. a nice fatty source to suck into. there are extreme impacts that are already being reported, dementia is one that i report in my article. but everything from coughs, constant bronchial problems, bleeding from ears, çnose. the rectum, these symptoms are also indicative of most likely the longer term expected chronic impacts, cancers, neurological disorders, birth defects. these are the expected outcomes of this type of exposure, and people in the gulf are experiencing them, and i honestly think based on my studies that 200,000 fig sir probably small. again, remember, 21 million people live on the gulf coast. they were exposed to an unprecedented environmental disaster. they're going to suffer the human consequences. >> antonia, one of the things that's confusing about this, a bunch of parallel prausz

processes in place. based on different kinds of classes. health effects disaggregated from economic effects. there is the natural resources, damage assessment, happeningeneder the oil spill act you mentioned. that's coming up with a tally. the money bp put up front and then, of course, also fines under the clean water act. so there's a bunch of different processes that are happening, and all of those are going to continue to play out and we should keep checking back in so we don't just forget about the gulf. antonia juhasz author of "black tide." thanks so much for your time this morning. really, really important reporting. >> thank you for having me. president obama says he wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. mitt romney gets offended. we'll explain why, right after this. [ female announcer ] experience dual-action power,

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presidentç obama stirring controversy this week with what many perceived oos a sly jab at mitt romney's privileged upbringing. >> somebody gave me an education. i wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. michelle wasn't. but somebody gave us a chance. just like these folks up here are looking for a chance. >> speaking in front of a job training center. romney then took umbrage with the remark in an interview on fox news. >> i'm not going to apologize for my dad's success, but i know the president likes to attack fellow americans. he's always looking for a scapegoat, particularly those that have been successful like my dad and i'm not going to rise to that. >> romney has consistently myth ole jised his father's success,

indeed, romney's only fortune is the ethos to his father's story. work hard, pull yourself up by the bootstraps you'll be able to pass that on to your children. piece by piece, however, republicans have worked to dismantle the very programs that would give low-income americans the chance to escape entrenched generational poverty and achieve the success romney extols in his father's story. this week a republican proposal to slash billions from the social safety net including the federal s.n.a.p. program, formerly known at food stamps. the agriculture committee inspired by paul ryan's budget approved a bill cutting food ç star stamps and and pennies compared to the cuts proposed under ryan's budget plan totals more than $130 billion over ten years. digging into the data on food

stamps' s.n.a.p. . they're trying to get away from the term. let's stipulate we'll call it s.n.a.p. . stipulated. >> no. >> no? you like food stamps. the data is shocking in terms of the rise of the program. now about 45 million americans, because largely because of the devastating consequences of the great recession. 85% of those people have a gross income below the federal poverty line which is about $22,000 for a family of four. so we are talking about -- half of them, i believe, are employed. this has become a way to essentially supplement the insufficient wages of people that are the working poor, and it's also been one of the most effective ways of mitigating poverty here in the great recession. this is a charlotchart that sho during -- among children. check this out. the top like -- do we have it?

maybe not. good. the top line, what the growth, the number of extremely poor families would have been without foot stamps and the bottom what it was with food stamps. the gap between the two is, poverty mitigation brought to you by food stamps and now they're going after food stamps. josh, defend your voice. >> i disagree with this choice. i think thatç -- i think we ne to have a broad rethinking of the way that we do income support and social programs in the u.s. because we have a patchwork. you have s.n.a.p., section 8, tanf, all of these. one thing i worry about is the issue of poverty traps. people who are working poor maybe a family with an income arounds 25 $25,000, they approa 100% because they pay taxes on the income and lose benefits as they get wealthy. a critical factor. talked about it last week having

this discussion. >> that when you, one of the ways tanf reform, welfare reform, get rid of the cliffs. if someone gets a raise or a better job, the actual gross amount of income taking into their family, net amount redu reduces. combine the federal programs together you do have cliff effects. >> and state programs on top of that. also a bigger problem as the health care law comes into effect, assuming it does. another big means test of entitlement program. the people lose the benefit as they gain income. that needs to be addressed. but i don't think that -- i think food stamps are a relatively good welfare program within the universal programs we have. an effective means of poverty mitigation. i don't think it makes sense to go after that in the budget. >> and s.n.a.p. isn't just about providing dollars for food. it's also trying to address issues such as obesity. it's food and security. okay. you have $2. you go buy a bag are chaps and grape soda. starting with farmer's markets

to accept s.n.a.p., go to select farmer's markets an trying to give people healthier foods. not only are they cutting the numbers, but they're cutting the types of nutritional supplements that are available. especially children. about half of the recipients are children. >> what we're talking about here are blatantly cruel proposals. one in five american children is poor. one in three african-american children is poor. it would be even more if we didn't have the food stamp programs. those numbers would be even higher, but what you're talking about, as poverty is increasing in the united states, at the same time the rich are getting richer, we're talking about going in and taking food off of the table of poor children? what is the matter with us? >> and the point that i make, you mentioned this at the top of the segment, but it can't be stated enough, that the program hasn't grown. >> right. >> the participants have grown, because that many people have dropped further down on the

income spectrum. so that's really the problem. because we see this demagogue over and over again. that this program's out of control. it keeps growing, keeps growing, as if more people are being admitted into it because the requirements are being loosened but in fact it's a function of there's something fundamentally wrong with our economy. >> and paul ryan talks about the growth, cbo projects as a share of gdp back to 1995 levels in about six years. right? as this sort of we get through the worst effects of the great recession. people get back into the labor market. there's a broader issue i think about the way we think about incomeç support for people at e bottom of the social hierarchy and economic pyramid. we've moved towards programs, the way tanf works and s.n.a.p., ways to essentially subsidize the working poor so that they can have essentially enough to just barely get by while working, and it strikes me as,

that that's a sort of distopeic vision of the future in which people have, there's a huge class of people who are making not enough money to actually exist on. the only thing that gets that is a government subsidy. >> and not only that, we're subsidizing the corporations who pay them. it's a wage subsidy. >> exactly. >> so the corporations would have to pay more together. we should be raising the minimum wage and we should be insisting that americans who work for a living get paid a decent wage for that work. >> i don't know what else you're supposed to do about growing inequality. the reason you have wage inequality is the different productivity levels and you h e have -- growing gaps of inequality because the economy is changing in ways such as the returns to labor are getting bigger and bigger for people at the top. >> a much, much more complicated story. >> this is a big part of the story. >> one of the key things the government can do to alleviate this is transfer -- >> right. >> so yes, this is a concern.

actually concerned more often voiced on right pap growing class of people living, who are living and requiring government subsidies to be able to support themselves at a level that is deemed by society to be aç level -- >> a lot of things to do about inequality. have a more progressive income tax. make access to higher education more affordable. i mean, there are just endless numbers of things that you can do about inequality. >> in terms of, reaffirm inequality. the income games during the first year of the recovery. not the entire recovery. data from the first year. 93% first year of recovery went to the top -- >> looks like pac-man. >> right. >> so sad. >> 93% of all income gains go to the top 1%? that should be hammered home to americans. i mean, pound, pound, pound. >> and during the recession what we saw with the minority communities was that within the

african-american community, 55%, latinos 56%. welfare becoming more skewed. this is a problem that keeps growing. >> basically no wealth in the african-american community. i think the median is something like $2,200. if you have $2,200 and your car breaks down, or something happens to the roof of your home, your wealth is gone. >> and changes for republicans, put in an acid test. if you have money in the bank, certain amount, you can't receive it. i want to talk how this effects social mobility right after we take this break. that's how many struggle with hunger in america. ♪ but what if there was a simple way to feed those in need? now there is. just buy select brands at walmart's low prices during april and you help secure meals for local families. go to facebook and learn more about how you can join the fight. because hunger is a big problem,

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[ clang ] my house is where plants came to die. ♪ but, it turns out all i was missing was miracle-gro potting mix. it's got what a plant needs. even plant food that feeds them for up to 6 months. you get bigger, more beautiful plants. guaranteed. who's got two green thumbs thanks to miracle-gro? uh, this gal. boom! everyone grows with miracle-gro. as you know, my dad born in mexico, poor, didn't get a college y.3degree. became head of a car company. i could have stayed in detroit like him. i went off on my own. i didn't inherent money from my parents. what i have, i earned. i worked hard, the american way. >> that's mitt romney in a

public primary debate in detroit asserting his ownç kind of, if not rags to riches sort of median riches to ultra riches story, and i think it's very interesting the way that he has to, and one of the conventions of running for president, is to construct for yourself some kind of meritcratic success story. talked about how he left connecticut and struck out in the texas oil fields. the son of a senator and four five generations of society folks. george w. bush, conversion story, getting rid of his drinking ways and his loose youth and turning his life around and mitt romney is in the middle of constructing even though the fact his father was a governor, had a major car company, constructing for himself this meritcratic story supplemented by ann romney about their early years at byu.

moved into a $65 a month apartment with a basement floor. it was tiny and i didn't have money to carpet the floor. but you can get remnants, samples. i glued them together. it looked awful. but we happy. studying hard. neither had a job because mitt had enough of investment from stock we could sell off a little at a time. the stock came from his father. so even in constructing her sort of hard days, byu student, housing, paying for this by selling the dad's income. to me what this gets at is this way we think about the american dream and mobility. i think mitt romney really does so ease almost latching on to this immigrant story. >> yes, yes. >> and using this as a american dream where nothing could be farther from the truth.

he ended up in mexico threei flm the united states because of polygamy. >> how should mitt romney talk about his career? he does have a meritorious business. a much more successful business person than his father was and while he obviously came in with a lot of advantages, he's a smart guy who worked hard and had a lot of success. >> that's exactly it. that's what's so strange about it. he could say that. i started off with a lot of advantages. didn't have to pay for college. didn't have student debt, an investment i dipped in to pay for, i am very lucky and feel responsible enough i appreciate the advantage i have and want 0 help those who don't have that advantage but he cannot admit that. that's what's so stunning. there's nothing problematic about having a wealthy person run for office, but the fact that you do not appreciate the opportunities you had as your father being a governor, and ceo

of a major car corporation and where that puts you at the beginning of the race. >> the famous line right on george w. bush, born on third base, hit a triple. one way to talk about it. mitt romney in 1994 dug up by a news producer. hat tip çsal, found this from romney in 1994. here's him talking about his fuxz in a remarkably frank and honest way. >> i believe we should maintain america as an opportunity society led by free people and free enterprises. it is opportunity and freedom which has driven our economy to be the most powerful in the world and created jobs for people across this -- >> i have spent my life not just in earning money. i was lucky to win the lottery. got involved in a business more successful than aye imagined nap isn't how we grew up or started living. >> the first bite wasn't right. second was. i almost literally won the

lottery. got into a business. all accounts of mitt romney as a private equity baron, good ot what he did, in terms of pursuing for his investors, himself and partners, very good at what he did. you're grimacing. he was. within the confines of what it was. >> won the lottery. you don't hear a lot of people on a winning team criticizing other players, but be that as it may. >> a frank way to talk about it. one of the things we can't have a discussion about, we have to reaffirm the idea success is 100% a product of determination, grit, talent, all of these things as opposed to being honest about the amount of both contingency and privilege that amount to being mitt romney with a quarter million dollars in the bank and running for president. >> the american electorate has voted for wealthy, privileged individuals again and again for president. they haven't held it againstç them. you go back to fdr, and back further than that, i'm sure, but

the kennedys. you know -- >> that's the thing. >> the country does not have a problem with that. >> across the spectrum or is this something that we see on the right? because they must maintain this notion of society being mettercratic. a guy like mitt romney feels more pressure than you see across the aisle. >> something that's a shared vision of left and right, more emphasis on the right. the idea of the american dream -- interesting juxtaposition. america, we think of america as the place that is the most mobile. right? de toqueville said in democracy in america, have no word for peasant. that class is unknown. the mobility relative to other countries. denmark, three times as mobile. intergenerational mobility,

father to son. denmark, norway, sweden, canada, mobile places in the u.s. the only place less mobile the class-bound world of the u.k. from which we broke off partly to slow off shackles of aristocratic domination. ask about the american dream, polling on do you think the american dream say live and well, have you achieved it or will you achieve it? 70% say, yes. there's an amazing, this amazing sort of disconnect betweenç wh people think about how much mobility this country has and what the actual facts of the matter are. i think our political culture has a way of reinforcing it. >> value in this irregardless of its truth. when you look at international survey data, asking people in different countries how much control they feel about their own -- >> interesting poll. >> believing you have more control over your fate causes peop people to work harder. woo i think it's important to

recognize -- >> you're saying this is a useful delusion for the masses is what you're saying? >> it isn't a statement that's either true or false. >> sure. of course. >> people believing they have opportunity for social mobility has value. so does actually having the opportunity for social mobility, but i don't think we want to undermine -- >> respond and quick break, talk more about it after the break. [ gong ] strawberry banana! [ male announcer ] for a smoothie with real fruit plus veggie nutrition new v8 v-fusion smoothie. could've had a v8.

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♪ ♪ [ son ] you realize, it's gotta run out sometime. [ male announcer ] jetta tdi clean diesel. the turbo that gets 42 miles per gallon. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ we are in society with a lot of income between income groups telling americans they are stuck in their current position in life, victims of circumstances beyond their control and the government's role is help them cope with it. that is not who e are. that is not what we do. >> paul ryan giving a speech about inequality and social mobility, affirms the core republican belief certainly, conservative belief, about individual achievement and merit in the face of whatever obstacles, equal opportunity,

whatever. but also i think a broadly shared american ethos. it does cross both parties the way we think about what the american dream is. and yet we have this tension in which the facts and the dream are quite disparate and then they get played out through the morality play of presidential elections in which you have the somewhat absurd situation of mitt romney trying to fashion for himself a carpet stapling background. >> there was kind of a narrow period in our history when the american dream was much easier to realize, and those were the early postworld war ii decades. now, i mean, i agree there's a degree of social mobility in the society, obviously, but it is not nearly enough. and it is very, very difficult now, if you're a poor person. forget about becoming rich. it's very difficult if you grow up poor to make it into the middle class nowadays. >> ant not looking at the institutional barriers. so the american dream supposes

that you didn't live under jim crow, or didn't go to segregated schools. so it's not just wealth. it's income. and wealth is inherited. while we may be on the same playing field having the same paycheck, but my great-great grandfather gave me money for his house it was passed down along the way. we lose sights of that when we're just looking at the president. >> in terms of wealth, forget about it. >> disparities in wealth are much greater. >> absolutely. >> because wealthvo accumulates it's a stock, economists say, not a flow. which is what income is. >> people overstate i idyllic the '50s were in terms of equality. barriers in the labor market. the period in u.s. history, the tightist import policies. i don't think that -- nobody's proposing we should go back to that structure, but the sortç unusual confluence of policies that were benefiting this one

group and that's gn gone away creating lots of advantages otherwise in society. >> i would push back on that a little bit. >> push back. >> after break, we'll hear your response. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this... is the at&t network. a living, breathing intelligence teaching data how to do more for business. [ beeping ] in here, data knows what to do. because the network finds it and tailors it across all the right points, automating all the right actions, to bring all the right results. [ whirring and beeping ] it's the at&t network -- doing more with data to help business do more for customers. ♪

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wow! who are you wearing? uhhh, his cousin. [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! wait! your boa. what's in your wallet? josh rempsed the slight anomalous period in the history of american political economy, after world war ii. >> obviously in the '50s a tough time for blacks. women did not have a great deal in the way of opportunities either, but in the early post bsh war decades, '50s, '60s, into the '70s, tremendous movement up, but in many groups including african-americans and included women, but the most important thing is that there was a movement in the right direction. progress was being made. whereas now, a lot of people are better off certainly than back in the '50s, but we're going

backwards. that's the big thing to keep our eyes on. >> look at median wage, about the same as -- >> in the '70s. >> well, depends. for households around 1996. individuals, back in the '70s partly due to the fact of a substitution effect, more, two-income earner households. but this question of mobility i think, josh, to me, these two conversations about food stamps and mobility are linked. right? if you're going to say, there's this kind of saying, e don't believe in equality of outcomes but believe in equality of opportunity. the poor kids have to get enough food so they're not, like, starving. you know, in order to achieve whatever human potential. seems to me even the most kind of conservative visionç of providing equality of opportunity has to include some money for food stamps. >> and higher ed is another big component to this and i think that we have so much focus on how broken our health care sector is, how much inflation there is and that, because that's on the budget. in higher ed basically the same

inflation trend as in health care. because much of that cost is basically shifted to the students. >> on consumers exactly. >> it's not taken as big a public policy concern but a big thing cementing inequality, education is increasingly expensive and a lot harder to work your way through college. >> when they do, they start with enormous amounts of debt. >> the fundamental problem is the cost, no matter the payer, has grown so much in a way that is not producing new value. that real needs to be addressed to be made affordable. >> also you'll address education starting on the early side. >> sure. >> the average poor child enters into elementary school knowing something like 2,000 words less. having a vocabulary that begins as an obstacle right at the beginning of schooling. >> what is the disconnect between the republican electorate and the republican electorate officials? we do see support for programs

such as s.n.a.p. in the general elech trin and particularly republicans. what's going on in between? >> two ways to think about it. one, demonize the poor. basically use it as a political -- one part of it. a process of elimination. republicans say we want to cut spendingç so we can reduce dea its si different sits but won't touch what the constituencies uses and not touch defense. we're left with a quarter of the budget. define yourself a quarter of the budget to make up, you've got to take a hatchet to everything. right? you end up in places you can attack without having to feel the wrath of political constituencies that support and vote for you. it's inevitable you end up backing yourself into s.n.a.p. what do we know now we didn't know last week? my answer's after this. and the education that i had. they're just part of who i am.

she convinced me that there was no limit to what we could learn. i don't think i'd be here today had i not had a wonderful science teacher. a teacher can make a huge difference in a child's life. he would never give up on any of us. thank you dr. newfield. you had a big impact on me. all at 150 calories or less, there's definitely a temptations for you. unless you're one of those people who doesn't like delicious stuff. temptations. it's the first jell-o that's just for adults.

who doesn't like easy label, right? but that label can lead to prejudice and discrimination, and we don't want to go there. so let's try to see people for who they really are. you can help create a more united states. the more you know. in just a moment what we know now we didn't know last week. first, a quick correction. earlier in the program we

incorrectly attributed a still picture of solar panels, the photo actually came from the solar electric fund, not the -- we apologize for that somewhat ridiculous error. and updateses on stories we're following. after mitt romney says raising kids counts as work, too, some democrats introducing a bill to make that philosophy law. the women's right to let women continue receiving federal assistance raising kids age 3 or younger. reported last week romney said in january even moms with kids as young as 2 should be cut off if they are not working outside the home. house republicans expected to block passage of the work act. an update on continuing fallout from the exchange council plays in the stand your ground in florida. alec announced it was ut shutting down elections task fierce to concentrate on initiatives that spur

competitiveness and innovation and put americans back to work. red union busting. didn't stop young brands, operator of pizza hut and kfc from joining 11 others companies likeç mcdonald's that dropped t of alec. and revealing on our program he no longer believes in god. after his appearance on his program, he and his church agreed to part ways. the congregation, asked why, sympathetic. mike is in discussions about forming what he call as post-christian church and plans to continue doing weddings and funerals. what do we know now we didn't know last week? one small thing won't solve the problem of climate but the ultimate solution requires thousands and millions of small things done at every little thing from the individual up to government. we know we cannot xpee yate our duty to act as citizens and a moral obligation to future generations and those who inhabit the areas of the world

at risk of climate disaster to force our own government to act. we now know what the u.s. conference of catholic bishop's opinion is truly worth to the house republicans after the bishop sent a letter to the chair of the agriculture committee chastising his proposed budget for failing a moral criteria because is lashes food sta slashes food stamps. we learned economic fairness or war and peace, tune out. thanks to gary peters we know that federal staffer college loan interest rates are scheduled to@1ñi double in july. we know student debt is now larger than auto loan debt and credit card debt according to economists and the new york fed and instructed an entire generation to take out debt to get an education and releasing them into the worst labor market in 30 years and congress canç t to stop interest rate spike but as of now republican members of congress don't appear to be onboard. we know this week louisiana

governor bobby jindal received a petition from amnesty international with tens of thousands of signatures on behalf of the two incarcerated men founded a black panther chapter in the inif a kniss angola, louisiana prison april 17th, the two held in solitary confinement 40 years each in a 6x9 xvx12 cell. the men maintained they were framed as punishment for political activism. fellow inmate king spent 29 years in solitary before released when his conviction was overturned. the number of prisoners held in solitary confine held in solita confinement is hard to come by, because two years ago the bureau of prisons found that 89 people were held in solitary confinements in state prisons. and now we know that rubber

stamps are not just given by city shareholders. there was a binding no to the pay package for vikram pundit and proposed compensation packages for four top execives as well. we know that this is a system of crohnism fars in which highly paid ceos sit on other companies and where shockingly they demand exorbitant compensation. we know that pay was áq 23% an in 2011, it was up another 14%. this scrolling is the highest paid members. we know some shareholders have sued over the executive compensation at citi and we know that reforming governance is one of the key battles in ending the ever accelerating inequality trends. so i want to hear from you guys. victoria, i will start from you. >> a pugh study came out showing that a growing number of women

as opposed to men desire higher paying jobs. so 66% to 56%, and so we have seen growth since the last time this was done, however, it does not mean that women do not also put a premium on marriage and parenting, and we don't see them as mutually exclusive and in short, we want it all. >> it is interesting data, because it showed that women want more higher paid jobs and also want to get married and have kids and also laying around and playing video games and that is an oversimplification of the data. >> yes, they want it all. that is new. >> did i take your thunder? >> yes. >> about 2 1/2 months ago eric schneiderman sat at the table and told you that if something was not happening within six months he would be disappointed with the financial fraud task force that he joined. and in part to sign on to an agreement that allowed essentially the banks to get

away with all sorts of mortgage0 >> conference calls and e-mail chains. >> yes, but it is hard to do without an office in three months to see any progress. what we do know is that following that agreement foreclosures have spiked, because the banks were afraid to go into the courtroom with faulty documents showing a lack of i chain of title and now they feel more confident doing that. >> that is interesting. josh? >> well, we had good news on the urban development front this year. darrell issa who is a favorite of people watching this program. >> absolutely. >> he is working with the washington, d.c. mayor to repeal the 102-year law to limit the height of buildings in

washington, d.c. and similar ly the same in new york by mayor bloomberg to allow more tall buildings. the city has created a lot of wealth and jobs and this is really good news. >> yes, there is a book out by matt iglesias which is an ebook which is a kindle single which makes a sort of argument for the importance of density and zoning laws and driving the economic growth and he hates the height limits, too. that is interesting. bob herbert, what do you know? >> we are not making as much progress on the economy as pundits would have us believetk the "wall street journal" led with stories saying that the economy is weakening and so a great deal more to be done than front. >> it is very hard that you end up in a position of economic forecaster in covering the

election, because macro economic health is the driving factor in terms of the president's re-election prospects so we end nup a bizarre role of amateur role of trying to make the macro economic predictions, which if i were good at it, there is a lot of money to be made. >> and what is just as important is the narrative as the macro and micro trends are the narrative. >> and more important than that is the number of people still out of work or underemployed. >> my thanks to the panel. thanks for getting up. thanks for join g ing us today "up" and join us sunday morning at 8 clng when we talk israel with author peter biner. you can get more on the program at up.msnbc.com. and coming up is melissa harris-perry and what have you got? >> all that, all that.

we will be talking about the 2008 -- well, the 2008 election, but really the 2012 elections and where president obama stands right now and how in fact this is not all in the bag yet. there is a real election coming up. we will also take aç look at louisiana. we are going to ask about shrimp who don't have eyes and crabs that don't have legs and all of the stories that we need to hear still about the bp oil spill, and also as you know because of me doing cheerleading moves in nerd land yesterday, we will talk about the title ix and women and sports. >> you were doing some amazing moves up in the floor yesterday, and brought the staff out of the offices. that is melissa harris-perry coming up next, and we will see you right here tomorrow at 8:00. thanks for getting up. [ fabric flapping in wind ]

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duracell. trusted everywhere. this morning, why there are 1,000 races more important than the one for the white house. plus, two years since the bp oil spill and the nightmare in the gulf continues. and the reason i am so excited about ladies in gym shorts. but first, why this time around president obama is really a black guy running for president. ♪ good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. republicans may be holding their noses just a little as they start to get in line and lock step with their presumptive nominee mitt romney, but evidence shows that there is little reason to think that president obama is a lock for re-election, because a slew of