the event once again generating the vice presidential speculation even though the florida senator has already said no thanks. this morning we'll break down and hear from other possibilities and explain why no often means maybe. plus, chasing the youth vote. the president finding a hard time generating excitement with young voters this time around this week he's taking on student loan interest rates with campus visits in three key swing states. can he make up lost ground? and officials behaving badly. twin scandals from the secret service and the general service administration dominated the headlines over the past couple of weeks. reinforce the perception that nothing in washington is working. the question this morning, how big a toll is this misconduct taking on all incumbents who make washington their home? good morning from washington. it's monday, april 23rd, 2012. this is "the daily rundown." i'm chuck todd. to my first reads of the morning. a live picture of south park township, pennsylvania, where mitt romney is about to kick off

a primary eve event with former governor tom ridge. pennsylvania votes tomorrow. welcome to week three, though, of the general election in team obama's campaign to try to define romney. the campaign is struggling with a messaging dilemma. is romney more he canively a flip-flopper weather vein or severely conservative endorser of paul ryan's budget, the tax policies in the most extreme version of republican rhetoric on women's issues. in the person of obama campaign se senior adviser david axelrod, the campaign seemed to settle, at least temporarily, on the idea that romney is a, quote, extremist. >> the only ideas are recycled from the last decade. there was a spokesperson at the republican national committee who said this week that this is just the bush policies updated. now she may not be elected employee of the month over there but she should get credit for candor because that's exactly what they're proposing. >> now white house senior

adviser david plouffe said whether it's tax policy, approach to immigration, abortion, gay rights, he's the most conservative going back to goldwater. if were you going to pin a tail on the donkey, let's make it the conservative tail. >> there are a lot of good republicans who know better and have been in the tlaul of this reign of terror on capitol hill, who are going to turn to those strident voices. we are going to do it your way. it didn't work for us. >> now romney's campaign is responding that the so-called attack from the left saying, quote, while each new day brings a different madeup attack from the obama campaign, what doesn't change is the fact that president obama has failed. now last night campaigning in pennsylvania ahead of tomorrow's primary, romney was selling a strikingly negative message. >> he has to understand that homeowners are under water in their homes. he has to understand that

incomes have gone down. he has to understand that people aren't happy with obama care. he tries to divide the american people. that's what we're in for. you're going to see one person after the other castigated. this is a president who is dividing america. >> today romney is holding another sweepstakes audition of sorts campaigning with marco rubopen not in florida but in pennsylvania. this is where rubio found a new way now not to answer the running mate question. >> do you still stand by i wouldn't accept it if he offered it? >> i'm not even going to discuss the process anymore. i'm going to be respectful of the process he put in place. now there's a real process in place and i want to be respectful of the process he's working on. i think it would be wise to respect that process. he has a process. we should respect that process. >> so apparently the romney campaign has a process. anyway, we'll talk veep-stakes later.

swing voters, independents and women, the campaign also has to worry about the base and this week the focus is on young voters. the president traveled to the university of north carolina, the university of colorado on tuesday, and to the university of iowa on wednesday, the official purpose of the trip student loans. the white house says interest rates on federal student loans will double to 6.8% unless, as they say, lawmakers stand up for college students against the romney/ryan budget. carney insisted these swing state stops are all about policy and not politics. >> can you explain the criteria of why the universities -- >> i would point you to -- >> colorado and iowa, not the university of texas. university of california. >> great parts of the country. i would point out as i did yesterday that the president has recently -- was recently delivering remarks in oklahoma. and while hope springs eternal, i am not prepared at this moment to call that a battleground state. >> but the real itty is this, our new nbc news/"wall street

journal" poll shows though obama is leading romney 60% to 34%, these folks aren't as interested in the election as they were four years ago. in april of 2008, 63% of folks 18-34 express high interest in the election. now it's just 45%. with the largest drop-off of any of the voting groups that we were examining from april 2008 to april 2012. by the way, one more thing on the youth vote. the president does jimmy fallon tomorrow. he takes that in north carolina. first appearance by vice president there. finally, six members of the secret service have lost their jobs in the wake of the colombia scandal. members of congress being briefed on the investigation say expect that number actually to rise. at least four congressional committees are receiving daily briefings from the secret service, homeland security secretary janet napolitano is expected to face questions at a senate judiciary committee hearing on the oversight of the department of homeland security which oversees the secret

service. so are the scandals taking a toll on the president? are all inkcumbents in washington? they are expressing confidence in secret service director mark sullivan. >> the president's can haonfiden director sullivan and the agency -- >> i do have confidence in mark sullivan. >> do you agree director sullivan should keep his job? >> i certainly do right now. based on everything i've seen so far, i have full confidence in him, yes. >> one thing you need to know about mark sullivan, this guy is very, very savvy internally when it comes to politics. the guy briefs anybody who has been asked. he has so much support right now across both sides of the aisle. still the episode coupled with the gsa scandal is leaving a cloud over washington and it's a distraction for the white house which obama campaign senior adviser axelrod talked about yesterday on "meet the press." >> on the gsa issue he was, i

think it's fair to say, and mrek particular. he acted quickly and the administration acted quickly and changed the management. the secret service does heroic work. this is really disturbing and we have to get to the bottom of it. >> and karl rove warned republicans preparing to politicize the secret service issue beware of going overboard. >> sure it creates a problem to president obama. it adds to the sense that washington is broken. if the republicans try to make this a point in their arguments, they're making a big mistake. >> and that's the issue, this e idea washington is broken which brings us to our next topic and our first guest. even with the two major parties settled on their candidates there still may be room for a third party or an independent candidate. last week's nbc news 0/"wall street journal" poll found 40% were open to the idea, although there's not much support for any particular candidate. one being speculate d on is davd walker, founder and ceo of the comeback initiative. he joins me now. former comptroller of the united

states. and speculated upon independent candidate. i want to say this. you put out a statement last week that said, it said the following. reports in the media mentioned an effort to draft me as a candidate for president through the americans elect process. this is the third party entity trying to get ballot access. while i appreciate and am humbled by their efforts, i am not a candidate and don't expect to become one. yet the press release brought attention to the issue. where are you on this? >> there is speculation. i'm not a candidate now. i don't expect to be a candidate, but there is an independent draft committee that's been formed for me driven by young people, contrary to rumors saying it's driven by wall street. it's driven by young people who are very concerned about where we are, where the future of the country lies. they've been following me for a number of years. we'll see where it goes. right now i am focused on the comeback america initiative. i've said for months that i would prefer to run an issue oriented campaign without running for public office. ross perot ran 20 years ago.

he ran on fiscal responsibility, political dysfunctionality, declining trust in government, declining confidence in the f future. we're worse off on all four of those, competence in government is 19% versus 58% 20 years ago and there's 42% of independents like myself. >> that sounds like a platform. i mean, if you were to choose to run, that's what you would be running on? >> it's an opportunity for somebody, and i would strongly prefer it be somebody other than me. >> who is that? >> yet to be determined. >> who are the type of people you would like to see out there? because there's -- i hear this. i hear from -- you and i have had conversations, i've had conversations with others. wouldn't it be great if, and yet everybody wants somebody else to run. >> there will be other candidates. first it looks like former governor of new mexico, gary johnson, will probably get the libertarian nomination. they're qualifying for 27 state ballots with over 300 electoral

votes. the reform party is going to have a nominee. i know buddy romer is trying to go for that. the real prize is americans elect because americans elect will have 50 state ballot acts and it's yet to be determined whether or not they're going to have a candidate. it will all be decided within the next couple of months. >> it's fair to say if you were not open to this you would ask these groups to stop -- there's a group out there called draft walker. they have a press release they're putting out this morning. they gave me a preview of it. david walker for president. their leader said their goal is to get 10,000 support eers to t americans elect website by may 15th in order to make sure that you qualify for the general election. you would -- you don't mind if they continue? >> what they're trying to do is to force me to make a decision. what they care about are issues i care about. fiscal responsibility, government transformation, the need for political reforms. that's what i'm focused on. that's what they're focused on. they want to force me to make a decision. i think it's going to be extremely difficult for them to

achieve their objective with the limited amount of time remaining. and so i'm staying focused on my current job. >> can you see yourself supporting either president obama or governor romney? is. >> possibly. but right now neither one of the candidates have a credible plan to restore fiscal sanity. neither one of them are talking enough about the needs for dramatic reforms in washington. and neither one are talking about needed political reforms. now you don't normally hear those kinds of things in a prima primary. the republicans had a primary. they had to run to the right. the democrats really haven't had a meaningful primary. it's critically important that the general election campaign be about substance and solutions and that's why we need a third option some place. >> when will you make a final decision? >> i won't have to make a decision until late may early june if if this draft effort is succe successful in qualifying me. >> and may 15th is the qualifying date. >> my understanding is based upon the current rules that's the latest that you can qualify. but that you can qualify as a

draft candidate. you don't have to decide whether or not you are going to run until the end of may, early june. >> and that's when you would make a final decision? >> if i have to make a decision, that's when i would make a decision. >> david walker, thanks for coming on this morning. good to be checking in with you to see where you are. >> sounds good. >> the number of people denying they want to be vice president is getting longer, which can only mean one thing, the search for romney's running mate is heating up. i have the fix to join me next to break it down. plus, this could be newt gingrich's last week in the campaign and in honor of that potential milestone we're taking a deep dive into some of his, shall we say, greatest hits and ideas from the campaign trail. first a look ahead to the president's schedule now. he's taking a tour of the holocaust museum. he will make remarks on today's remembrance. it's holocaust remembrance day. he'll be making remarks before the top of the hour.

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well, now to the dance. you heard one dance there of a candidate kind of running but not really running yet. now a dance of a running mate. how do you campaign for a job without sounding like you want it? well, one way is to suggest somebody else. >> i can't speak for governor romney, and i can't speak for senator rubio. if i was on both sides of that conversation, i would ask and i would hope that marco would accept. >> that's very nice of jeb. i hope he'll say yes if future president romney asks him. i think he would be a fantastic vice president. >> i think rubio has a better ring to it. >> i think i would demand

reconsideration, send mr. romney a list of people i think would suit better. >> i'm not looking for a campaign or expect iing it. so we'll see what happens. you'll have to ask governor romney what he's planning to do. >> they're going to have qualified candidates to look at so i'm not going to cross any of those bridges until we come to them. >> well, with me now jonathan martin and there it is. we have basically two lists we put up. the people we think are going to get vetted or early on vetted and then the longer shots here. of the three or four candidates you expect to be vetted, what's your list look like? we have rubio, portman, christie, ginnedjindal, pawlent >> as mmm as those seven. >> i say rubio, portman, mcdonnell, christie, maybe jindal, and i think you have to

have a woman in there. i do think kelly belongs in there. i remember covering the 2010, she's quite good, very personable. the long, long list, rick san are tore up, newt gingrich -- those people are putting their names out there. >> the conventional wisdom, though, is romney is no mccain. romney is going to go conventional, that it will be somebody we all assume is the obvious choice. >> my gut has always been if romney is within a few points up or down, he's going to make a governing pick and it's going to tap somebody he thinks can, "a," take over the job for him and he, "b," is personally come tortable with. if that is your focus, portman comes to mind, mcdonnell, pawlenty comes to mind. i think those three have a good shot. they may vet a woman, could be

kelly ayotte. >> could be martinez. >> i think pawlenty could be undervalued here. very loyal to romney during the primary after he dropped out. has blue collar credentials romney doesn't and has more after relationship with the candidate and the candidate's staff than the rest of these guys. >> one quick thing we talked about off air, i think you have to consider, does romney want to put marco rubio or chris christie from the second the person is named immediately overshadows him? do you willingly submit yourself to that? >> look, the first role is do no harm. if you pick somebody who then either has political problems that overshadow you or is so darned talented that they overshadow you. >> let me put up our long shot list, longer shots. i throw this up because sarah palin -- lieberman wasn't on the initial list.

>> would she make the list? >> no. >> jeb bush, mitch daniels. i moved bob mcdonnell down because of the issues on the legislature, martinez and brian sandoval. >> he supports abortion rights. you can cross him off. >> i think you have to cross him off. the hispanic federal judge, conservative federal judge swing state. >> it's a women's issue. >> it's a convention problem. >> i mean, i'm kind of intrigued that you dropped mcdonnell down there. >> he has two problems. it's not just the past session. it's the thesis he wrote as a graduate student because the combination of the two creates a ten-day story if you put him on the ticket, and i don't know how you overcome that. >> how will we see romney used? it seems a lot more events like this today. let us have fun with whoever he's campaigning with that day as, hey look, it's audition

today. today it's marco rubio. >> i also think they always blow this up and say, wow, this is ridiculous. we're not trying anyone out. why wouldn't you see what the chemistry is like? it doesn't make any sense. of course you would do that. paul ryan in wisconsin, it's not a tryout. >> it's funny you bring up the ryan thing. i hear romney didn't know each other and liked each other. they clicked. >> that's part of it. >> you have to leave that a lot of republican strategists will plead not to pick ryan. you pick ryan, you give democrats even more opportunities to beat them over the head. >> the party is split. >> some believe that and some say -- >> the editorial board is enthusiastic. >> it's an interesting argument. the argument can be, if they're going to make the election about medicare, let's just embrace it and say, look, these are hard truths that the country needs to hear.

i tend to think that's not the right thing. you're right. you can talk to 50 people. >> timing. before or after the olympics? >> i think after. >> interesting. i say before. >> i think last possible minute which would suggest after. >> that's after. >> i hadn't thought about it until you just asked. >> we here at nbc are always thinking about the olympics. thank you both. what's in store this week on wall street? how veteran senator orrin hatch ended up in his first primary fight since 1976. it may be a good thing for him. he's not the only one having a hard time. french president nicolas sarkozy's re-election chances have gotten slimmer. which president won the fewest electoral votes informer a re-election bid? bonus points if you can tell us the number of electoral votes that sitting president won.

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a few of the stories i'm watching, george zimmerman left jail under cover of darkness after posting 10% of his $150,000 bail. zimmerman left the building around midnight without speaking to reporters, got into a bmw with another man and left. we do not know the location that he is headed. opening arguments begin today in the trial of, believe it or not, former senator and presidential candidate and vice presidential nominee john edwards. he has pled not guilty to federal charges that he illegally used campaign funds to hide his extra mmarital affair. despite spend issing over $700,000, tea party activists failed this their bid to not off veteran utah senator orrin hatch, although the vote was close enough it is forcing hatch into his first primary since 1976. hatch needed 60% of the vote at the convention to avoid a

primary but was shy 32 votes out of 3,908 votes that were cast. folks, hatch is a heavy favorite to win the primary itself. president nicolas sarkozy's re-election bid was dealt a severe blow after he came in second to the socialist party front-runner in the first round of presidential voting. this is the first time since 1958 that the incumbent lost the first round. the second round of voting will be may 6th. all right. just minutes away from the opening bell, time for the market rundown. becky is here. i woke up at 4:30 this morning to jim cramer negative tweets. so what have you got for me? >> yeah, jim is calling it right. a lot of red arrow this is morning, chuck. we're looking at the dow futures down by about 120 points when we open in two minutes. a lot of reasons for this. part of this is what's been happening overseas. you just mentioned what happened in the french election. sarkozy getting dealt a setback. that has a lot of concerns about

what that's going to mean for the euro. in the netherlands, they have not been able to reach austerity measures there, calling for earlier elections raising concerns. plus manufacturing numbers in europe disappointing across board which suggest that we could see that economy really taking a turn for the worse. that has people worried. plus a lot of individual stock stories in the united states that aren't helping things either. kellogg's for one issued a profit warning for the full year partially because of weakness in european markets but also because of weakness in other segments here in the united states as well. add that up with the walmart story which i'm sure you saw it over the weekend in "the new york times," raising questions and alleging that walmart officials in mexico were handing out bribes to try to get their stores open more quickly, permitting done. the allegation in "the new york times" is that when higher ups beckon, they tried to cover it up rather than turning it over to u.s. officials and this is now playing out in a very large way. the foreign corrupt practices act which is the anti-bribery

laws in the united states, that's a question whether they had been violated and there's going to be some big investigations that are coming down from u.s. investigators at this point. that stock is indicated to open lower as well. so there's not a whole lot of good news on this monday morning and plenty of reasons to push the futures down, chuck. >> fair enough. becky quick, thank you as always. up next, i've got newt gingrich in his own words. we're taking a deep dive into some of newt gingrich's most grandiose ideas from food stamps to foreign relations and of course the moon. what a long, strange trip it's been. call it our newt-bituary. [ jennifer garner ] there's a lot of beautiful makeup out there. but one is so clever that your skin looks better even after you take it off. neutrogena® healthy skin liquid makeup. 98% saw improved skin. does your makeup do that? neutrogena® cosmetics. sven's home security gets the most rewards

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in today's deep dive on the eve of another round of primaries we want it to take a look back at the run of the only man left in the race besides mitt romney who actually has won

a primary. that's newt gingrich. now beginnigingrich's gambit ha highs and lows to say the least from losing his entire staff last summer in the wake of his greek isles cruise to soaring to the front of the pack as the anti-romney after michele bachmann, rick perry and herman cain all flamed out. lasting neglect si from low to high and back to low will be his words. he is, after all, a self-proclaimed ideas man even before he officially got into the race he let us know what his motivation was. >> i have two grandchildren. one is 11 and one is 9. i am convinced if we do not decisively win the struggle over the nature of america, by the time they are my age, they will be in a secular atheist country potentially one dominated by radicalists and with no understanding what it meant to be an american. >> there you go. that's all. but throughout it all gingrich really was about big ideas, right? many of which seemed to combine his wide array of interests like

space and infrastructure. >> by the end of my second term -- [ applause ] -- we will have the first permanent base on the moon and it will be american. [ applause ] >> of course there was mail tracking and illegal immigration. >> one of my proposals is very simple. we send a package to every person who is here illegally. when it's delivered, we pull it up, we know exact ly where they are. it's on the computer. >> recently it's been about guns and foreign relations. >> as president i would propose that the united states submit a

treaty that says that the right to bear arms is a universal human right, and that every human being on the planet should have the right to bear arms. >> he really said that. then there was guns and the environment, by the way. >> you can't put a gun rack in a volt. so let's be clear what this election is all about. we believe in the right to bear arms and we like to bear the arms in our trucks. there. >> as it turned out a volt owner did figure out how to put a gun rack in a volt. he did get under the skin of folks on the left like this about the occupy wall street movement. >> that is a pretty good symptom of how much the left has collapsed as a moral system in this country and why you need to reassert something as simple as go get a job right after you take a bath. >> or this about instilling work values in kids.

>> they should hire kids from the poor neighborhood to do all the janitorial work, both because they could use the money and they then have a sense of ownership of the school. >> and sometimes gingrich's ideas got him into hot water with his own party like when he said this about paul ryan's budget plan. >> i don't think right-wing social engineering is any more desirable than left-wing social engineering. >> then at other times the former speaker just spoke out with things he thought you should know. >> no federal official at any level is currently allowed to say merry christmas. we've had people take their food stamp money and use it to go to hawaii. invented palestinian people who have been arabs and historically part of the arab community and they had a chance to go many places. the psychological attitude of the modern world is such that if if thomas edison invented the electric light in the modern era, it would be reported on the network news as the candle

making industry was threatened today. president obama's biggest challenge is that he has exactly the wrong ideas. he belongs to an ideology that believes the way you get hard eggs is you freeze them. he has an environmental protection agency proposal that would raise the price of gasoline by 25 cents a gallon. indicate calmly and decisively that any effort to close the straits of hormuz would be considered an act of war and we would eliminate the government of eiran. >> that's right. newt gingrich left no topic untouched, and he was fully prepped to take the fight to president obama this year with a plan that would make don king proud. >> well, let me just say to the president, i will be glad to debate him anywhere anytime. and i'll go a step further just to make it nonpolitical. we ought to debate on pay-per-view and charge 10 bucks to watch the debate and that

ought to go to a charity over a mutual choice and it would be the largest charity fund-raiser in the country this year. and the topic ought to be price of gasoline. >> well, it looks like we won't get to see that debate but we're sure newt gingrich would have made it worth every penny, i guess. it was something else. none of those quotes made up. all newt gingrich in his own words. call it our newt-bituary. our political panel will be here next and we're expect to go hear from the president live at the u.s. holocaust museum any minute thousand. white house soup of the day, greek lentil stew. you can sit there and stew about whether stew is a soup or not. c'mon dad!

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expected to speak any moment. this is his first visit as president. he'll be introduced which the nobel peace prize laureate and holocaust survivor. the two are wrapping up a tour of the museum right now. the president is expected to speak about developing new ways to prevent genocide around the world. we'll bring that you speech live, of course, as soon as it happens. joining me now it's panel time. three weeks since mitt romney became the presumptive nominee and poll after poll is showing that it's a tightening race between him and president obama. the race is now on for the two candidates to find ways to define each other for the general election. joining me now is the chief correspondent for "the washington post," lois, politico senior political writer, and democratic pollster fred yang. week three of the general election, this campaign to define romney over the weekend we learned that now, and we saw with david axelrod romney's conservative now and david plouffe calling him the most conservative since barry goldwater. so a slight change in tact here,

is it not? >> well, a slight change in tact but i think they think there is a lot that they have to work with because of what romney had to do and say during the primaries and they think that he drove himself further to the right than he should have and they're going to try to keep him pinned down there. one of the questions is whether that will be credible over time and whether romney will prove as a general election candidate to be more appealing and less conservative than he looked like in the nomination battle. >> fred, it struck me when i read that david plouffe quote, most conservative nominee, i mean, there are republicans that laughed, i'm sure, when they read that quote. if not, it is not a believable quote when you look at all of romney's records over his 20-year political career. >> well, what record are we talking about , number one and, number two, as he goes to the middle because arguably he needs to go to the middle to win independents in the midwest, i think is going to sort of reinforce which are we talking about? look, there are a lot of

different frames of selection, center versus right, fairness versus the 1%. i just think this is another one frame that works with the overall election. >> lois,watching mitt romney respond to this, he is trying to characterize every attack on him as they're just trying to make sure you're not focused on the economy. yet he has a very negative view -- he's almost talking down the economy at this point. is there a line he's got to walk here in being careful not to look like he's talking down the economy? >> well, i think the line he has to walk is not to attack obama because all of these polls that we're seeing demonstrate that obama has a very high likability factor. and so what he's being told is do not attack obama. stick totally on the policies, and he's got some credibility on the economy. these polls show that, too. so i'm not sure he's at risk talking down the economy. i think his risk would come in if he's attacking obama personally and going down that route. >> the next three months you had

written this a couple of weeks ago it will be one -- it will be a decisive three months in some form or another. is it fair to say that what it is, it's the battle to define romney? >> it very much is the bat to define romney. the president is very well defined. there was a poll that came out last week and it was noted there is a smaller swing vote this time in part because it's a re-election campaign. people know the president. they're having to get to know romney. they got to know him a little bit but people didn't pay that close attention to the republican primary. so the obama campaign wants to do everything to make this early phase about who is mitt romney be and so romney will have to work against that. >> fred, this week the obama campaign has a positive message. there are two lines they want to go here. the message they're pushing is about college loans and when you look inside "the wall street journal" numbers, you see that he doesn't have a problem with support among 18 to 34-year-olds but a problem in enthusiasm. and that's something that they have to fix.

>> absolutely. if the president can replicate 2008, it's the mathematics is very hard for romney to make up. >> but is that -- he has to replicate it, is that what you're saying? >> come close to it. >> having 18 to 34-year-olds not be as enthusiastic? >> no. no. but, look, 2008 was special. will we ever see the magic of 2008? i don't know but i think they will come very close with young voters and minority voters. >> lois, very quickly on money, do you think obama has a money problem? "the new york times" seems to imply it. it's hard to say the guy who is leading in the money race, does he have a money problem? >> he has a super pac problem. the super pac stuff is really, really flat. and obama -- i mean, romney, seems to be endless. he has incredibly deep pockets and with karl rove behind him that's a big issue. >> a 10-1 advantage obama over romney, a 2-1 advantage when you factor in all the super pacs and

we haven't even started general election fund-raising. stick around. trivia, we asked which president won the fewest electoral votes ever in a re-election bid. the answer, did you know? william howard taft, 1912, taft won just eight electoral votes. former president teddy roosevelt ran as a progressive and he split in the republican ranks, propelled woodrow wilson to a commanding electoral college victory. recently, students from 31 countries took part in a science test. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this.

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still waiting on the president. he's being introduced right now. we'll bring back the panel. i want to talk a little bit about warren hatch but under the guise of the strength of the tea party. orrin hatch got out of the convention into the primary, which is better than what bob bennett did two years ago. are we watching the tea party's

influence while still there starting to fade or not? >> i think it is. i think it's because the american public is starting to see them as obstructionist. they went in saying we'll get all this done and we'll compromise but after the last two legislative years they say we have to get something done, this is awful. they can't just dig in. i think it is fading a bit. >> it's interesting. you have dick luger in trouble in his primary. that's a tea party challenge. he's a statewide elected official that's challenging him. not an out of nowhere personality like we saw two years ago. hatch almost avoided the primary. mitt romney is no tea partier. where do you put them? >> i still think the tea party has influence inside the party. i think if you look at the way people run for office and try to posture themselves and the way people try to move themselves, it's all in relationship to the sense that the tea party is a powerful force within the party and you can't cross it.

you can argue that there's always been for the last x years, five, ten years a conservative part of the party that politicians have had to worry about in primaries and primary fights are more important but overall i think as louis suggests the influence of the tea party at large is less than than it was. >> occupy wall street movement, a majority said it has run its course. with tea party, 43%. not majority saying it had run its course. one argument that the republican side of our poll said is the president has adopted the occupy rhetoric a little bit and fairness argument and that maybe that's why people see it. >> it's part of it. i also think that the tea party is a more cohesive political force. there are people running as tea party candidates. not running as occupy wall street candidates. i agree in general with my republican colleague. the tea party's influence is

way waning is bait because the focus of the debate was washington and capitol hill and spending and in 2012 we're seeing a broader argument about fairness and wall street who is contributing and who is not. >> dan, i want to go quickly. we had david walker on talking about how he's the latest idea of a third party candidate. americans elect is the most organized effort we've seen of a third party. they don't call themselves a party. they'll get ballot access it looks like in all 50 states. big names have passed it up. they've been out there trying to recruit different people. they passed it up. david walker is not a household name but may end up with this nomination. considering there's an appetite for an alternative, is he enough to fill the vacuum? >> i don't know the answer to that, chuck. as you suggest there's an appetite. there's a kind of ripeness for some kind of messenger to carry that message. i don't know whether americans elect will be able to carry it off or david walker has the

strength and charisma and things you would need to really make a dent on the american people. >> a more buzzy name if it jumped in and sometimes every day i start to think maybe he's interested is jon huntsman. he seems to be wanting to send his party a message that he's mad. >> i don't know what he's doing. he seems to also dig a lot of holes and jump in them. i think he's kind of -- might be too perky for the american public. >> interesting. fred, the country is polarized and yet there's a vacuum, which is going to win out here? in '92 the country wasn't as polarized. >> when you say which is going to win out, the right or the left or -- >> we're polarized. you're either on the red team or blue team or both parties are wearing themselves out here and they are so entrenched they are not thinking about the solution orientated aspect. >> every re-election cycle since

'92, we have this debate. i just don't -- i mean, your trivia question, taft got eight electoral votes via teddy roosevelt who was an actual figure. >> so what you're saying unless your a former president or a billionaire, you can't do this? >> there's a hunger out there for a third alternative. i think you need a personality or credible figure to make that gel. >> why is it that we haven't seen someone rise up? what's missing? the numbers suggest, dan, that it's there but usually politicians always look and walked away from it with usual suspects. >> it takes a certain combination of experience, money, some celebrity and when you look around the horizon, there are not a lot of people who actually fit all of those

categories. i think the pool is smaller than we might think. >> all right. shameless plug. >> great story on our website today about bill clinton's involvement in obama's campaign. we need to keep an eye on bill. >> i have to plug my daughter's softball game. they got rained out last two games. we still have opening day hopefully today. >> my daughter's opening weekend is next weekend. >> i'm going to plug national journal piece and nobody we trust is a good piece. >> it also gets to this whole bigger idea that we have. all right. coming up, we're going to hear from the president any minute now. he's getting introduced but we're going to take a quick break and we'll bring you live coverage of the president's speech at the holocaust museum. chris jansing will bring you that. i'll see you tomorrow. bye-bye.

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