tonight, sweet carolina. you like soap operaetsa /*s then you will love the details in the john edwards court case today. the prosecution's star witness andrew young told how he concealed his affair with retail hunter. what edwards did to keep his presidential dreams alive. that's if you believe a word with it. we have the latest. also a first of its kind look at who mitt romney might pick at his running mate. each candidate addresses a particular problem romney may have. but here's the bigger problem. doesn't all this suggest that romney has a lot of problems? plus one reason barack obama won information years ago is that voters aged 18 to 29 came out in big numbers and he won two-thirds of them. but enthusiasm among young voters is obviously down and that's why the president is now making his big pitch to college

students today. and if you've been listening to the republican candidates for president, you'd think the country is wide open to illegal immigration. the fact is he hasn't. the total number of mexicans living illegally in the united states right now is actually down a million. and that report comes just as the supreme court is about to take up arizona's anti-illegal immigration law. finally, let me finish tonight with the utter failure of our country to deal with either debt or long term immigration problems. we begin with the trial of john edward, however. melinda as been covering the trial. this is in many ways a sad story. a sad story of a marriage coming apart, of deception, of infidelity, of cheating, also of money laundering. of all kinds of things allegedly. what happened today in the testimony, what did you hear in the testimony of andrew young, the star witness for the prosecution? >> well, when you say it's in many ways a sad story, that's so true. just to see john edwards'

elderly parents sitting behind him, supporting him even now as they always have throughout his life, you can't not feel it for the family. andrew young as a witness today just seemed to me like a nightmare witness. i mean, so many inconsistencies, internal inconsistencies even in what he was saying. for example, saying john edwards did not want to know a thing about the scheme to keep the money flowing to his pregnant mistress. and yet because he wanted to preserve his viability, because he allegedly thought he was sure to become a vice presidential choice or maybe attorney general, and then on the other hand, he says he was involved in every single aspect of, you know, this plot to keep his candidacy alive by funneling this money to rielle hunter. the one thing that came across

as ringing true was when he said because john edwards has always said that it was andrew young's idea to claim paternity and when andrew young describes the scene in great detail of john edwards coming to him, he says he took the cell phone call when he was at the petsmart buying a turtle aquarium for his kids and he starts giving the stump speech, like andrew, you have to do this for the greater good. this is bigger than all of us, this is about america. and andrew was also i thought very believable on the point of his own motivations in this. he said, you know, of course i wanted my friend to become president of the united states. that would mean a lot of good benefits for me. and that really did come across as quite believable. >> let me go to hampton on the point by point here. what did you think of prosecution established today in terms of the claim by then and of course by the star witness

that john edwards, that won back in 2004, coming in second in the iowa caucuses for president, how he was able to spend money he got from people, using that money according to prosecution to cover up the affair, cover up the child out of wedlock, and how he's doing all this as part of a campaign expenditure? how successful were they today? >> well, they didn't lose ground today. but you this was i think in many ways a win/win. a win for each side. andrew young backed up not just by his word which has a lot of credibility issue, but by documents, checks, bank account statements, was able to put john edwards in the middle of the plot to keep the affair private. and in many ways today was an audio version of the politician. but andrew young helped john edwards in three key ways. one, he made clear that bunny mellon wanted nothing in return.

two, he made sure mellon was told that these expenses were for personal matters, not political. and, three, andrew young said john edwards told him time and time again this was perfectly lawful. so andrew young may have made out the government's case, but he also helped john edwards. >> that's what i'm wondering about. it sounds like he made the case against the prosecution by saying this isn't a political expenditure. and this wasn't intended to be such by the one who gave the money, bunny mellon, the wealthy heiress. more was it described as such. it was simply a way to pay a family expenditure to keep a family problem secret. >> yes, i think it's all going to turn on how much you believe the part of andrew young's all over the map statements that says, you know, this was in john's mind a way to keep his campaign viable. that this was very crucial to his campaign because he had even

after he suspended his campaign some kind of idea that he was bound to be as i said vice president or attorney general. i do think there was something for both sides today. but it was, you know, he was not -- as i said before, i mean, the judge was annoyed with andrew young. she kept saying can you slow down. he looked like a guy -- he was revising his earlier statements. in his book, he said that the money only started going to rielle after she became pregnant. today he said the money came before that. so the judge was annoyed. the prosecution was annoyed with him. the prosecution kept saying that's not what i asked you, sir. so it was not a great day for the prosecution. >> let me get to the heart of this, for as many people who understand this case emotionally. >> elizabeth edwards was a beloved figure. there she is in the film we are supporting. she was in fact a very supportive wife, a very likeable

person, very intelligent, certainly as intelligent as her husband and yet she was the one who was cheated upon and died of cancer. in the midst of all of this, how did her personality play in that courtroom? i notice they decided to have only seven women out of the 16 jurors. a very few number of women. what was that about in terms of her, late elizabeth edwards? hampton. >> to my mind, elizabeth edwards has come off worse this game change or the politician, other chronicles about this 2008 campaign than she has in court today. there's plenty of trial left. i think this is still a trial about john edwards and andrew young. one issue for the government is andrew young says he had concerns about the legality of

this scheme. but andrew young is no lawyer. he never took the bar, he never passed the bar. and edwards has former federal election commissioners ready to testify that what he did was not a crime. >> i thought it was interesting that on the jury, yes, there are seven women who were in the pool, but they were on the panel or will be alternates, but none of them are anywhere near to the age elizabeth would be today and i thought that was very interesting that they left that demographic out of the jury pool. but elizabeth did not come across that well here. she always claimed she only knew there was a one night stand, she was really in the dark. and what we're hearing in this, it's clear from the voice mails that we heard today from john edwards, that she heard about a lot of this at a lot of different steps along the way. that not only was it there's

knowing and there's knowing, but she discovered many things about his relationship with rielle hunter as time went on. and that she seems to have been, you know, at one point the lawyers were even saying, you know, one of the main reasons he was out there is because elizabeth wanted to campaign so much. and it really did paint a picture of elizabeth being more involved than we thought. >> hampton, i want to get a key point about this guy. the reason john edwards had a chance of being president, the reason he was a senator from north carolina is he was an astounding courtroom lawyer. he was able to win over juries. and he was the good looking guy who was attractive to the jurors in many ways because of his class background, his looks, style, his charm.

it seems like all that has been thrown into reverse. he's now seen as the cad, the guy who messed around on his wife, who cheated on her, he deceived her, then tried to run for office while paying off the living cost of a child he had out of wedlock. paying off the girlfriend, if you will. is that in fact the context, the box this trial came in in north carolina for those jurors? the personality of john edwards. >> you're absolutely right, chris. i saw it firsthand as john edwards really sold himself convincingly as the son of a mill worker for the first time when he said it back in '97 and '98 as he won that senate seat. the question is can john edwards, the man with the mistress, the man who treated on his cancer-stricken wife, the man of private jets and posh hotels, can he connect with this jury? and that's still an open question. but one thing you'd appreciate

is today was about unreported campaign flights, not for a candidate which really is a problem, but for people who had no relationship towards getting votes. they could have cost edwards votes, but it seemed like is surreal scene when we're talking about flights for people other than the candidate. >> it was very interesting, too, as you were saying about his ability to charm this jury, it's interesting to me that he's making no attempt now to even try and charm the jury. he doesn't really -- he's very involved with his defense attorneys. but he is not even trying to work on contact with the jury and i think that's probably a wise decision on his part. >> melinda, keep an eye on it. i've always been curious about his appeal any way. thank you melinda and hampton. coming up, who is mitt romney going to pick as his running mate? back to real politics. he pluges a hole for romney. he has a lot of holes. i'm not saying it's a titanic, but it is a ship with holes in

it. a latino, a woman, a roman catholic or perhaps someone from the hard right? he has a lot of choice here because he has a lot of problems. this is "hardball." great shot. how did the nba become the hottest league on the planet? by building on the cisco intelligent network they're able to serve up live video, and instant replays, creating fans from berlin to beijing. what can we help you build? nice shot kid. the nba around the world built by the only company that could. cisco. not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought.

call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. brand new poll numbers in what the democrats hope will be a battleground state. let's check the scoreboard. first in new hampshire, president obama is up, believe it or not, 51% 41% in what we thought would be a very tight state. a nine point lead, the same lead he had in 2008. that's good news for him. how arizona state, democrats have long hoped they can flip and the president is close there. a new arizona state university poll has romney up 42%-40%, but so tempting for the dance. we'll be right back.

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new york, pennsylvania and rhode island. but mitt romney's already looking beyond primary season of course. case in point, the search for a running mate which officially began last week when the campaign named long time romney aide beth myers to head the process. last night "the daily show" had fun with the many perspective candidates who seem to be saying they aren't interested. >> do you pass on the job, at least recommend someone else to fill. >> we have a lot of really talented people out there that mitt romney will get to pick from. senator rob portman would be phenomenal choice for vice president. >> see? that's all right. marco rubio says rob portman's your guy. i don't know who that is. let's see what he has to say about it. >> romney/portman, does it have a ring to it? >> i think rubio has a better ring. >> why does being romney's vice president now seem like a dare nobody wants to take? >> like in high school. dares go first.

of course denying your interest is pretty much pro forma these days. so what is mitt romney looking for in a running mate? many of the names tossed around seem to help him with some of his biggest problems. be it latinos or young voters or his own conservative base. possible peeps with chuck todd and major garrett. gentlemen, let's start with you, sir, chuck. let's start with the one here. >> the only true gentleman on the show. >> i keep hearing this from the right. i don't hear it from mainstream journalists like yourself. they say rubio. i keep hearing it from the right wing guys, they say rubio. where do you stand? how does it look? >> i tell you i think he excites the base. the intellectual conservative base in a way that i think none of the other candidates being talked about do.

i think that's number one. number two, clearly the idea of he trying to help on the latino front makes rubio a prime player. you throw in the fact that he's from a swing state. and i think his youth is helpful. there needs to be the republican party needs to show a generational shift. that's why the idea of either a paul ryan or a marco rubio does that. the down side, has really been through the scrutiny that you go through and you want to do that with somebody that went through a relatively easy race once charlie crist got chased out. >> for hugging obama. talk about a freudian slip. last week, major, you were interviewing marco rubio as we saw about the possibility he would be vice president. and he said something rather revealing perhaps. let's listen. >> three, four, five years from now, if do i a good job as vice

president -- i'm sorry. if i do a good job at a senator instead of the vice president, i'll have a chance to do all sorts of things. >> you do what do i, try to get them all screwed up. he said if i spend the next three, four, five years as doing a vice president. >> i was accused of doing jedi mind tricks. for the gentlemen, i possess no jedi mind tricks. >> the secret racing stripes? >> i don't think so. and i don't think romney will pick rubio. as far as anyone can possibly be on the limb, i said he'll pick rob portman. >> rob portman is the senator from ohio. state republican. historically must win to win the presidency. here's how one republican state chairman described the appeal of rob portman. according to buzz feed. he was born to be the guy standing next to the guy.

he's the type of guy who ran for vice president of his high school student council. go ahead, you first. >> whatever you think about rob portman, i make the case on a couple of levels. one, twice senate confirmed. what does that mean? ustr, u.s. trade representative and budget director. that means his fbi file is known to all who care. which means he will be noncontroversial and will not slow the romney campaign down if they pick rob portman. what is crucial for romney is to pick a vice president that checks several boxes and then he moves on as the alternative to obama. he cannot afford two or three weeks about who his running mate is. which i think he would invite with rubio, christy orr any of the more charismatic possible choices. >> wouldn't they be more like two puddles of water rather than a spark? >> i said in my column it would be squares squared. true. but that's the essence of romney. he cannot escape that. and trying to graft on to the tree charisma only highlights the fact that he's honest charismatic. and we elect presidents, not

vice presidents. >> when you go for ice cream, he asks for a double vanilla? chuck. you made your point. now chuck. >> i thought major was just about to bring up a ticket that i was going bring up, that did just this. al gore was vanilla. and bill clinton needed a little vanilla. but he also wanted the generational change and he was doubling down on what they thought was his most appealing element, the idea of generational change. let me tell you another thing that helps on portman. the other part of this process. whether it's fair or not, it's a fact. the running mate will get judged against sarah palin. the question, is it for a day, a week or a month, this whole cloud that she leaves over the process. >> right. >> absolutely. >> if you put sarah palin, and i said this earlier today, if you put her in a program computer and said give me the exact opposite of sarah palin, you would get rob portman. >> let's take a other options. jeb bush might be popular with

conservatives. but george will spend this weekend, the issue with the bush brothers. let's take a watch. >> if jeb bush is to be romney's running mate, it would mean that in seven of nine presidential elections, there would be a bush on the republican ticket. and it gets hard to argue that we're not a tribal society at that point. >> what do you think of that? chuck, just too many -- another problem for jeb who i like is he would have to defend his brother's administration. and he'd be like a voodoo doll. anytime you said anything against w, he would have to defend him. >> i think it's a little bit of a negative for portman by the way is his service in the bush administration as budget director on the item they want to do. but on jeb, if you want to look at hispanic voters, i would make the argument that jeb bush could help romney more with hispanics than marco rubio. >> i just think bush is the george will problem, it's too much bush. if you're going to go florida

and hispanic, go rubio. >> let's talk about more interesting candidates. chris christie and condoleezza rice who has a little bit of buzz on this. you first, chuck. these are very interesting picks. they would dazzle the country. >> they would. and you would have an issue of overshadowing the candidate in a chris christie. you don't want that as a romney campaign. let me focus on condi and this is that issue of i think romney would really like to pick a woman running mate. i think it's not fair to the other women running mates that they'll get held to a sarah palin -- >> condi wouldn't be. >> that's right. she's a political persona before anybody had heard of sarah palin. she's completely politically formed, if you will. now, what's the down side? it is the fact that you might be

relitigating some thing wills in the bush years. and do you want to do that. but i think if you really believe he needs to fix his problem with women, and i tell you, condi rice would be safe and could help on that front. i just think she's a long shot. no doubt. i don't think -- she's never been in elect difference politics and that is a draw back for anybody getting into this business with just three months notice. but i think she is an intriguing way that romney could really use. >> i think so, too. ed rollins said she would be a better pick for senate. year ago he spotted her talent. >> mitt romney will have serious governing issues and they're all economic. condoleezza rice offers nothing particular will in either communicating to the house or the senate or getting votes or working the system to help him on economic or trade issues. that's why i think he'll go for someone like rob portman because economy is crucial. chris christie offers no reassurance whatsoever to social conservatives. he's bad on guns, he's bad on abortion, he's bad on the whole front -- >> how is he bad on abortion?

>> because's pro-choice. >> he's pro-life. >> he has a complicated history on the life issue and i don't think he offers any reassurance to social conservatives and romney already has problems there. >> i agree with you on portman. portman is doubling down in the fashion by the way of bill clinton and it worked. >> paul ryan would be the same. you could argue the same thing. >> carries a lot of weight, carry as lot of baggage. you have to defend every element in that ryan plan. right? >> he has to do that anyway. might as well have the guy who is better than defending it than having to do it yourself. >> do you have a pick, chuck? >> i think it's a short list of portman, i think you'll see a woman that gets seriously vet. my gut is kelly ayotte out of new hampshire and tim pawlenty. i think he would love to put a mid western governor on the ticket.

there is no sitting governor that makes a lot of sense, but pawlenty may make sense as a former. >> thanks. great thinking this time of the year. it's only april. by the way, only thing interesting about romney right now. by the way, polls close in four of tonight's primary states. nbc will have full complete results here on msnbc and we'll be giving them to you throughout the evening. in our regular programming. on a running mate, wait until you see rudy giuliani's diagnosis what have went wrong with sarah palin. i don't believe a word. that's next. what happens when classroom teachers get the training... ...and support they need? schools flourish and students blossom. that's why programs like... ...the mickelson exxonmobil teachers academy... ...and astronaut sally ride's science academy are helping our educators improve student success in math and science.

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with a counter attack. here's stephen colbert. >> the romney campaign has found an obama dog story even more damaging. listen to obama's own voice describe food his stepfather fed him as a small child in indonesia. >> away from the dinner table, i was introduced to dog meat, tough, snake meat, tougher web and roasted grasshopper, crunchy. >> from his best telling book, dreams from my father or dog meat from my stepfather. i believe anything that president obama did at a ten-year-old is the same as romney did as an adult. and i have found a explosive photographic evidence that he supports pirates. someone has to help that woman. call s.e.a.l. team 6! >> they dug up the history of the president's dogs. here's lbj with his dog picking

him up by the ears. that sparked outrage. as the presidential candidate, richard nixon gave his highly successful checkers speech. nixon had won big by saying his dog checkers was a gift and his family wasn't going to give him back no matter what those big shot critics said. the best dog story of all was when republicans attacked fdr for giving his dog falla a free ride on a navy ship. his speech one of the best in history, helped win him a fourth term. finally, rudy giuliani has come out with his endorsement of mitt romney yesterday. despite the fact that he's had harsh words about romney over the years. and this morning, rudy weighed in on the veepstakes of the last election. what does he say would have helped sarah palin? >> that person should be selected early. by the same sarah palin got to the debate, she was a heck of a good candidate. if she had had three months to

prepare, you would have seen sarah palin of today. >> she would have won the debate. >> yeah and that took like three weeks of preparation. you do two months of preparation, what a difference. >> what an idiotic conversation that was. do you believe either side of that conversation? rudy giuliani really believes that three months would have changed everything. i don't believe a word he said. i don't believe he believed it. up next, back to school. back to school. president obama goes back to college, hitting three in two days. young voters came out in record numbers four years ago, but are they as enthusiastic this time? apparently not.

not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy.

get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. for a hot dog cart. my mother said, "well, maybe we ought to buy this hot dog cart and set it up someplace." so my parents went to bank of america. they met with the branch manager and they said, "look, we've got this little hot dog cart, and it's on a really good corner. let's see if we can buy the property." and the branch manager said, "all right, i will take a chance with the two of you." and we've been loyal to bank of america for the last 71 years.

i'm milissa rehberger. a dairy cow in california tested positive for mad cow disease.

first case since 2006. u.s. beef and dairy products are safe. a seventh grade teacher from burbank, california was honored at the white house for being the 2012 national teacher of the year. president obama commended rebecca mieliwocki for beg the best for her student. profits soared thanks to strong sales of the iphone. back to "hardball." back to "hardball." president obama hit the road this week as he visits colleges in key swing states to press for congress to act on student loans and avoid a jump in interest rates for over 7 million students. those rates will go up this summer by double. the youth vote is essential to the president's path to victory and there's both good and bad news on that front.

the good news, obama leads mitt romney among voters 18 to 34. that's pretty hefty. by convincing 60%. the bad news, voters in that age group i mentioned don't have as much zeal about voting this time as they it four years ago when 63% considered themselves highly interested four years ago, today that's down to 45%. a real slump in interest. with me two top political reporters. easily distinguishable. a great factoid from you today. what was the key issue helping the president among young voters, was it the number of them that turned out or was it the sweep with which he carried them? >> right. what i think a lot of people say, oh, well, the youth vote carried obama. and that's true. but it's a misnomer. >> you like it build it up. >> i do.

>> you can't just answer my question. >> i'm trying to send my time to talk. in 2008, 18% of the electorate was 18 to 29. in 2004, it was 17%. so -- >> he didn't increase the balloon of voters. >> no but he won those 18 to 29 by 32 points. bill clinton i think came the closest, by 19. so he won them by such a big margin, it mattered more. >> in time around, he has to maintain 17% or 18%. and he has to hold on them against romney who will have some, if minority is you sport with business school types. that small will support romney. >> and that's the message that they're carrying on the economy. this is a message we see them carrying trying to get all the demographic, whether young people, whether in latinos. it's always about the economy. we saw him -- >> business solutions to the economy. >> that's right.

it's all about -- >> business manager's perspective rather than politician's perspective. >> and you see obama doing very different things trying to reach these students where they live with the student loans. and also -- >> who is the only president this history to have a b-school degree? >> i don't know. >> w. the guy took us to the worst economic class. by the other guy was the great engineer, hoover. he was really good. anyway, the president took a populous tone today at unc. my grad school. we call it the southern part of heaven. he spoke with student loans reminding the audience of young people it wasn't so long ago that he was still carrying debt himself, student loans in fact. availed reference to mitt romney who never had a loan to go to college. i'm sure it was another shot. let's watch. >> this is something michelle and i know about firsthand. i didn't just read about this.

i didn't get just some talking points about this. i didn't just get a policy briefing on this. michelle and i, we've been in your shoes. like i said, we didn't come from wealthy families. so when we graduated from college and law school, we had a mountain of debt. when we married, we got poor together. but we only finished paying off our student loans, check this out, i'm president of the united states, we only finished paying off our student loans about eight years ago. that wasn't that long ago. >> i don't think mr. romney robot could do that. >> no, this is vintage obama. he's got a little bit of the baptist preacher in this. >> where did he learn that rhythm? he didn't go to baptist church. >> he went to baptist churches when he was in chicago and he'll probably highlight, too, polls show these young folks really value community service.

you imagine that will be a big contrast between romney. he'll talk about his community service like he was -- >> by the way, did you see the numbers today? 15% of this country counting everybody in this country, everybody watching, have student loans outstanding. like one in six people watching still owe money to college. >> and i would point out, romney did a press conference yesterday with marco rubio and he came back at the end of the press conference and said, hey, just fyi, i support the extension of these low interest rates. >> take its down just for parents watching and students watching, it could balloon up to 6%, it's keeping down at 3%. at unc, we wanted to get a college tour with the president. here he is with jimmy fallon of late night. let's watch a portion of it. pretty good stuff. >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the 44th president of the united states of america,

barack obama. ♪ i'm so in love with you >> do you know mitt romney. >> >> i've met him. but we're not friends. >> you picked it out. he was singing an al green song. >> remember, that's the -- it went viral him singing the song. he is a talented guy. >> he does have a style. he can do the rainbow room. >> this is important. he is cool. mitt romney is not cool. >> let's not lean against romney. >> that's a dynamic though. here is romney up in pennsylvania just yesterday.

here's mitt romney, the candidate running against him. >> i fully support the effort to extend the low interest rate on student loans. there was some concern that that would expire halfway through the year. and i support extending the temporary relief on interest rates for students in part because of the extraordinarily poor conditions in the job market. >> can you dig it? i knew that you could. was that the least cool guy? >> very different from president obama. >> that's not putting on a show. >> and very different from president obama's testimony about his own experiences. >> i don't mean to say pejoratively that mitt romney isn't cool. barack obama is, but -- >> i have to pick up on time. >> i agree. >> i think this cool factor, i think the kids would call it having swagger, is important to these young folks.

they're not at the point where they're wearing t-shirts for barack obama anymore, but i do think they can identify. because he's a guy who fills out his brackets. >> we'll see. anyway, thank you. great to have you on. i read you all the time. you're in about five times a week, aren't you? up next, republicans want you to believe that illegal immigration is out of control under president obama. the trouble is it's actually not out of control. there are fewer legal immigrants from new mexico. a million less than a while ago. which is really kind of counterintuitive given all the headlines. that's ahead. this is "hardball." [ female announcer ] did you know the average person smiles

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about all our poor border problems, the obama administration according to them has failed to tackle an every growing immigration problem. here's a surprising new report from the pew hispanic center. it shows that the number of mexicans living illegally in the united states is in serious decline. the number dropped from 7 million in 2007 to about 6.1 million last year. that's a million dropped. it's the first time in four decades that number has receded. immigration will remain a hot button issue especially this week, the senate held a hearing on arizona's immigration law. the tough new immigration law out there. the supreme court will hear arguments on it tomorrow. and that's going to be hot. united states senator dick dushon sits on the judiciary committee responsible for senator, i'm going to give you some time here. this is one of the most difficult questions we face in this country. is it anywhere near solution. the senate well before you got there was passed. it wasn't given any teeth.

it never had any enforcement power. what are we going to do in terms of arizona a the alternative to arizona and the long term dealing with the issue? how does it look? >> i can understand the sentiment across the united states that we don't have an immigration reform law, and we need it with millions in america undocumented. many have lived here for a long time with families and established themselves in communities. we really need to come up with a standard. that's the responsibility of the president and congress. some states are moving on their own. that's the arizona story. i think what arizona has done is a violation of the constitution. the constitution specifies that the federal government has the responsibility when it comes to immigration and when it comes to whether a state can supercede it or go around, i don't think there's any doubt. the point i tried to make at the hearing today for russell

pierce, the author of the arizona law, is i asked him to taik a look at six of his fellow arizona residents, all who are eligible for the dream act. all of whom are in college or have advanced college degrees. i told him each and every one of them could be arrested under his law. is that what his goal is? >> isn't it the law, i went back and read it again this afternoon. the law says that naact of stopping someone, this highway patrolman are required to make a reasonable effort to determine whether the country is in the country legally or not. how would you like that police officer to behave differently under the law? should they look at your driver's license and give it a special look if you think the person may not be here legally. should they act like they think they are here legally? how would you like to see them behave differently under the law?

>> i have the greatest respect for law enforcement. when they put that badge in the morning on their breast, they are literally risking their lives for you and everyone else. that's why the arizona law is so troublesome. we had a chief of police last week, ron davis, he said the way this law is written in arizona, it's written to literally profile latinos. that's something we should never do in the united states. we shouldn't be calling them over to the side of the road because they appear to be driving his panic. >> if they are driving recklessly, they can then ask. maybe that's the technical difference. it says you're not to act according to paern's ethnicity, race or background. that's what it says in the law. >> it may be a distinction without a difference. what we're seeing in the law is

a requirement subject to civil penalties if the law enforcement agency, police department doesn't enforce this law as written. there's some pressure on the law enforcement agents to look for those who may be in violation of the law. it says a reasonable suspicion that they are in this country illegally, undocumented. when the arizona post, which is a group of law enforcement that spells out detail, they say here is what you ought to look for. look at the way they dress. look at their language and how they speak and determine if that's part of the calculation. that's close to profiling if it isn't profiling. >> well said. thank you so much. thank you for coming on. i see the problem you have with this bill. looks like the supreme court may have the same problem. let me finish the failure of both parties to deal with immigration and the national debt.

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yourselves a government if you can't keep your books and you can't call yourself country if you can't control your border. i look at the debt problem and i don't see the two parties getting together. i don't see them getting together before the election or after the election. to control the rising debt you have to reconcile spending and revenue at some point. you have to decide how much you're willing to tax people and spend that amount, i think or you have to decide how much to spend and raise revenues up to that amount, don't you in the republicans, if they ran the entire government all by themselves would fiemd it impossible to do it because they would cut programs like medicare with such brutality that they would cease to control the government in the next election. would democrats deal with debt if they had complete control? i wonder if the government would put up with the tax level they might impose. you got a problem.

put republicans in complete control of immigration, they might be draconian and start deporting people or putting so much economic pressure that they would self-deport. would there society stand for having people that live here for generations thrown out of the country? would they? would democrats every deal with immigration? i wonder would they ever deal without the political pressure of republicans pounding them if they didn't. i doubt it. here is the problem. if neither party can be trusted to solve theooming parties and if they can't get together to solve them, when will the problems be solved? i've just given you the reason for my fears. not nice to think about but true. thanks for being with us. the "the ed show" starts right now. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show." president obama is schooling mitt romney on the necessity of