time it's for real. for really real. it's wednesday, april 25th. and this is "now." joining me today author of the real romney, the boston globe's scott helman, author and retired u.s. army captain, wes moore. "time" magazine' lovely rona, and hugo lindgren of "the new york times." we'll be talking about the horse race in a second. we want to take you to the steps of the premium court where governor jan brewer is now addressing a crowd. >> that was because we needed protections for the citizens of arizona. and what will arizona was experiencing as far as the cost element in education, in health care, and incar ration. >> but governor, let me ask you the question that was asked by chuck schumer yesterday. chuck schumer -- >> i just want to take this

opportunity, if i can to recognize our counsel, paul clement and his staff. they were absolutely stellar. they will have kept us brief. they have worked hard and diligent. and i just know that much with the counsel that we've had, that we have done the very best job that we can do for the people of arizona and in an effort support the rule of law. sfloochbl clemen sfloochbl -- mr. clement. >> sure. the court has heard the case, taken it under submission. we were gratified by the justices, you know, thorough consideration of this case, so thorough in fact they kept both lawyers up at the podium longer than scheduled. i think that will underscores the importance and seriousness of the issues. from the lawyers' perspective, this case is really about issues of federalism, in particular

although all the focus of course, has been on the arizona law as it should be, in some respects for the purposes of the justices, the federal statutes are every bit as important as arizona's statutes and what you saw here i think was a real understanding on the justices' part that the much of what will arizona's done in this statute is to really accept the invitation of the federal statutes themselves that really put a premium on trying to get communication between state and local law enforcement and federal officials. and so although a lot of the focus has been on the arizona approach, i think you very much saw the justices equally focused on what congress has done and the burden on the federal government in the this case is to show that there's a conflict between what the federal government has done in its congressional approach and what arizona has done in its own approach. so i was certainly very grateful for the opportunity to represent governor brewer and the state. it was a great working relationship, starting at the process of trying to get the

court interested in this case, after the 9th circuit decided it. >> that was paul clement arguing the case at the supreme court for the state of arizona. joining us now is tom goldstein, a lawyer and professor specializing notice supreme court. he also cofounded the site scotusblog.com. tom, a big day at the supreme court. beat have the news that is based on their comments during this morning's oral arguments a majority of u.s. supreme court justices appear to be prepared to uphold the arizona law. tell us a little about what will went on this morning. >> i think it's likely a majority of the court will uphold part of the arizona law, and the one clemtd was just mentioning that says the state can check someone's immigration status. opponents of the statute said that the state could make it a crime for not registering or seeking employment, i think there is a much better chance that the federal government will win that and that part of the center the tute will be struck down. >> i want to call your attention to two not surprisingly opposing op-eds from "the wall street

journal" and "new york times." the journal makes the case that the case does not hinge on immigration but rather states' rights. they write that mrs. brewer and the grand canyon state legislator didn't attempt to the write material or substantive new rules for the 370 mile border with mexico. all arizona does is instruct state police to enforce federal immigration laws, for instance, by calling federal officials if a person they arrest can't verify his legal status. the heart of this case is the balance of state and federal power, not immigration. do you think that the justices are following that line of argument? >> i do with respect to the what the "wall street journal" was talking about which is that a state officer who pulls somebody over has reason to believe that they may not be a registered properly and maybe a legal alien and they ask the federal government if they want the person held and they check the immigration status, i do think the supreme court believes in all likelihood that's cooperative thing that the state is doing and it's the state's prerogative. part of the law that doesn't get discussed as much in either that

op-ed or by clement that says and we're going to headache it a crime to not register properly, that's one i think the supreme court at least four justices which is all the opponents need right now will say really interferes with federal immigration policy. >> and i would be remiss if i didn't give voice to the "new york times" editorial board which says the law transforms a federal policy that will allows discretion seeking serious criminals among illegal immigrants into a state mandate to single out everyone in arizona illegally. the four of provisions essentially turn all hispanics including american citizens and legal residents into the criminal suspects. what do you make of that? >> there the times is focusing on the crime part. what the "new york times" take on the case and the federal government's case on the case in opposing the arizona statute today you have to combine two things, that the state officers ask about your immigration status and if you're not properly registered, then you've

committed a crime and can be prosecuted by the state. that feels like the state's own immigration policy. if you only look at the inquiry, all the state is doing is asking whether you are complying with federal law, there's nothing wrong with that. >> i want to bring in the panel here that has been largely silent and hear their voices. we've talked a lot about the health care law, the prognosis on that is hazy is, cloudy with a chance of meatballs. outside indicators say the court may strike down the individual mandate. now we're getting news that the arizona law perhaps some of the most controversial parts of it may be upheld. hugo, your official comment was wow, big win for obama said with not a small dose of sarcasm. >> it puts him in a difficult position. the performance of the administration before the supreme court hasn't been all that i think they might have wished. this is potentially another example. we'll have to see. it looks like maybe a split decision. wealthy have to wait and see

what the verdict really is. >> it's important to know that a split decision basically it doesn't set a precedent. it allows other states that are sort of mulling similar laws to go forward with those laws. >> right. >> i agree it's not great for obama. i agree with the "wall street journal" in the sense this is about the balance of power between federal and state. i'm disturbed about the arizona situation because it throws the issue of immigration back on the states. we need to speak with a voice that says immigration is really good. at the high end and also the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum. there's a lot of benefits to be gained and we forget about that. >> broad immigration reform gets further away from us. >> this could be something interesting for the president if he decides to use thus as something he's planning on running on, the fact the president of the united states is the only person that can decide who has a chance to sit on the supreme court. if we're watching these instances whether it be health care, immigration, continue to fall back, he can use this as

another election argument as to why he needs another four years to appoint people to the supreme court. >> there's a political element to both court decisions. to some extent they're parallel tracks. whatever happens with the arizona case, the guy who sponsored it in arizona was bounced out of office in part because voters didn't like what he stood for. i think regardless of maybe how poorly the administration may fare here politically, they kols win potentially on both of them. >> it col gin up enthusiasm on the left if it gets upheld. >> like james carville, winning by losing. >> not my intention. >> tom goldstein, we have to leave it there. thank you for the intelligence and the expertise. we will know we will be following this very closely in the days and months to come and hope to have you back for more analysis. >> thanks for having me. newt gingrich is mong out and mitt romney is moving on. we'll take a look at romney's big speech last night and president obama's dueling message. it is the horse race next on "now." [ music playing, indistinct conversations ]

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the suspense is over. nbc news has confirmed that newt gingrich will suspend his campaign next tuesday. acknowledging that mitt romney will, in fact, be the rominee. meanwhile, the general election has turned to a battle over wealth. in two speeches yesterday, president obama and mitt romney told personal stories of poverty. >> and michele and i, we've been in your shoes. like i said, we didn't come from wealthy families. so when we graduated from college and law school, we had a mountain of debt. when we married, we got poor together. >> this extraordinary land, where someone like my dad who grew up poor, never graduated

from college, could pursue his dreams and work his way up to running a great car company. >> scott, as a biographer of mitt romney, do you think that this is a good line of speechifying, which is to say his sort of boot strap bona fides, if you will in. >> i mean, on one hand, i think he has a point that his father and going back even further, his ancestors had a very hard scrap of life. this is not some bra man family that for generations as owned tons of real estate and passed down money. >> what's wrong with those people? >>. >> and starnlths i don't think it's going to be a winning political argument. everybody knows he's made piles and piles of money. he's not been very comfortable talking about it in this campaign and past campaigns. to the extent they try to cast him as somebody who understands struggle, who's felt it personally, i don't think that's going to work. >> rona, romney is saying, not

to denigrate his and ses torz, his grandfather, and the work that his grandfather did, but mitt romney has been widely acknowledged to be a richie rich kind of dude. he has the accounts in the caymans, in my mind, this kind of language just draws attention to that and bes to contrast with reality. >> he's the richest guy of all. all of his verbal gaffes have been around wealth in the run-up in the primaries. i hope that newt gives him a resounding endorsement because i don't want people to forget as he's trying to tack to the center how far he tacked to the right. this is the worst issue to tack on. i think it's not going to be a successful one for him. >> i think it's a clear indication of how romney really needs to like keep the race in the present tense. as long as he tries to fight all these different fronts and be like i'm poor too and here's where i am on women, it's a losing battle for him. his campaign should be so much

simpler where assertive foreign policy and about a more astute handling of the economy. he doesn't need to go into all these other areas. at the obama's personal story is a big advantage for obama over romney. he needs to stay away from it. >> it's about more than personal narratives. we've had national leaders extraordinarily wealthy but done a good job at connecting going as far as back as the fdr examples and yuan edwards is a very wealthy man who did great job of touching into this idea of poverty in this country. it's not just about his personal narrative per se. it is about also the positions. how are you putting together policies that you think is going to do a better job of touching the people that you think you can have a difficult time reaching out to. >> this is another moment from yesterday that i want to highlight. the talk of fairness and mitt romney sort of falling on the president's narrative of a fair shot. let's listen to what the president said at unc and what

romney said later in the evening. >> i want this forever to be a country where everybody gets a fair shot and everybody's doing their fair share, and everybody's playing by the same set of rules. >> this america is fundamentally fair. we will stop the unfairness of urban children being denied access to the good schools of their choice. >> now, say what you will about the wealth thing. i think the argument over fairness is very dangerous territory for mitt romney, especially when he says something like this country is fundamentally fair not acknowledging the gap in mobility, income, education. >> it's the worst thing. the mobility thing is huge because i think that americans are actually prepared to tolerate a huge wealth gap if they believe the system is fair. but that's exactly the ground that he's weak on. the statistics show that mobility is going down. you can get a leg up on old europe a lot of places better than the u.s. >> we will be talking about old europe in a few minutes. >> i would watch for talking

about the vice presidential selection process, one thing romney was conscious of in 2002 when picking a running mate in the governor's race then was that there was a very wealthy guy named james rappaport who was the lieutenant governor candidate. romney and his aides initially thought we'll be okay with that and then they thought this is going to look terrible. we will have two extreme little wealthy white businessmen on the ticket. this isn't going to fly. that is what led them to embrace why is carrie healy, a bright but little known republican party official because she was very wealthy but she did not look the part. i wonder if we'll see some of that this time as they think the about who to pick. >> you can alleviate some concerns with your vp choice but the president is going to las so mitt romney to the paul ryan budget. if you talk about overcoming the income inequality and closing the, you know, opportunity gap in this country, the paul ryan

budget only exacerbates that. and to say this is fundamentally a fair country is a real slap to the people who feel disenfranchised. >> it's also dangerous, going back to your point he could talk about the economy, this is the problem. the key issues in the economy right now, the bifurcation, the wealth gap, at fact there's this is huge group of 70% of americans that don't have opportunity, that is the problem. i don't think he has clear answers for that. he doesn't have a straight line on the economy. >> if it's a legitimate answer or not, but economic growth has got to be his message across the board. >> but you have to show how to create it. >> he has a track record of creating value in companies. >> that's debatable. >> i think he does. i mean, i think he has a story that he has to keep streamlining. it's like a baseball pitcher with a good fastball like you got to keep using the fastball. you don't start throwing stuff you don't know how to throw. >> you don't start throwing knuckle balls. i don't know if that's a pitch. >> that is a pitch. >> it's a good one.

>> i'm being told it is by the control room. also remarkable about the back and forth last night, the white house has done a skillful job of drawing romney out on its talking points. >> just like the competition in the republican primary did, too. that's where it has to stop for him. he has to set, here's what i'm going to say. they can say whatever they want. >> we're going to talk more where student loans, this is something romney has had to weigh in on. violence against women is being debated in congress and he has to come out with a strong position on it or he's going to hit with it and the lily leadbetter act. >> the student debt thing is revealing in that romney first embraces the paul ryan budget and then yesterday you see him walk it back, that part of it, and say no, i support extending low interest rates. that crystallizes for the obama team their sort of message challenge. the one option is to paint him somebody who you can't trust

who's here and there. probably the preferable option is to paint him as the extremist. >> the a flip-flopper says well, maybe he's more like a moderate. maybe he's a little more reasonable than he's been having to sell himself. >> ha. >> i think that shows how they're going to be very aware of that because it's more in their interests for him to be seen as a flip-flopper than if he's a severely -- >> i flip, i flop. >> the white house is sort of honing that strategy. we've had word in the last couple weeks they're trying to paint him as severely conservative, but mitt romney can't help flipping or flopping. we'll have more on the dynamic between obama and romney as well as president obama on jimmy fallon talking about his frenemy mitt romney. that's next. [ female announcer ] did you know the average person smiles

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trouble with a car insurance claim. [ dennis ] switch to allstate. their claim service is so good, now it's guaranteed. [ foreman ] so i can trust 'em. unlike randy. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate. do you know mitt romney? >> i've met him.

but we're not friends. he seems like a somebody who cares deeply about his family. >> yeah. >> and his wife is lovely. >> eventually in a couple months, he's going to put out attack ads and then it gets personal. >> it's not like the best introduction. >> that was president obama on jimmy fallon last night, wes. it's hard to not just. >> that's not funny what the president said. >> he slow jammed the news. he is so comfortable in that format. it reminds you he's got that smile. of course, we're falling all over ourselves. this is why everybody says things about the media. >> he can sure at the president's jokes, don't they? another great one, president. >> but you know, the dark lining to that silver cloud if it even existsing is this thing's going to get nasty. i mean, i think wear in a sort of holding pattern right now. but you saw a little bit back and forth as we played in the last block. i this i getting to know whether

it's the president's policies or mitt romney, there is going to be a lot in the air come november -- come the summer and into november. >> especially after the whole citizens united decision because there's going to be more and more money that is going to be completely unaccounted for that we're now going to have a collection of ads. it doesn't have to be much transparency or accuracy. >> that's the question whether the campaigns try to keep it clean and let the sort of third parties go at it or whether they get in there, too. i mean, it will be interesting to watch that. >> i think romney's jokes have to get better in any case. >> my god, that's the thing. it's pretty easy to look funny next to him. >> we do know that mitt romney has a standing invite to i believe host "saturday night live." whether or not he does that, is you know -- >> wow. there is the rounding out of the mitt romney profile. ann romney has played the role of a very valuable surrogate till now, scott. do you think that there are other romney surrogates from the family that may come out in the coming months?

>> i think so. i think ask you'll probably see the sons play a much bigger role. they're great spokesmen for their dad and highlight the strong values, all the things he wants the american people to know. i think the sons and ann definitely because for all we talk about how difficult a time mitt romney has connecting with people, ann has no problem connecting with people. she's very warm, funny, much more comfortable in her skin. i think the advisers recognize that and you will see her put out there. she can't have too aggressive a schedule, she has to be careful for health reasons. i don't think she's going to be doing three events a day. >> i'm curious to see, will there be anyone from massachusetts to be heavy surrogates for him? >> in the general election, that's more plausible. in the primary he was trying to run as far as away from the massachusetts as possible. i wouldn't be surprised honestly if he tries to embrace the massachusetts moderate tag that he ran away from so furiously after gingrich's attacks.

so i wouldn't be surprised, absolutely, if they do, and more to that point ta talk about health care more. >> are we going to be surprised at anything mitt romney does come election time? we'll see. coming up, europe's debt crisis. will will the continent's battle between austerity and spending have a ripple effect across the pond? we'll ask martin bashir and dylan ratigan when they join the bull pen next on "now." hold on to your seats. stinct co] the charcoal went out already? [ sighs ] forget it. [ male announcer ] there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford charcoal. kingsford. slow down and grill.  in every bag of kingsford charcoal. [ whooping ] ♪ it was the best day ♪ it was the best day ♪ ♪ it was the best day ♪ 'cause of you we make a great pair. huh?

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have a ripple effect across the

across europe, severe economic problems are sparking intense debate over whether budget cuts or increased spending will bring the euro zone back to health. it's a discussion that largely mirrors the political debate at the center of the american presidential race. the tom sawyer and huck finn of american broadcasting joining us now, martin bashir of the eupon

mus martin bashir show and dylan ratigan. >> i'm huckleberry fin, obviously. you're tom sawyer. he's always offended by his association. >> the gong. we've got to ring it from the get-go. martin, you and i have talked about what is going on in europe. i will read to you two opposing journals, sorry op-eds, one from "the wall street journal" which says europe's voters have swept several governments from office and seem ready for more. what really needs to be swept away is the debilitating consensus that is government spending con conjure prosperity. .robert reisch saying at president should make it clear he won't follow america into an austerity trap of slower growth and higher unemployment. what is happening in europe, is it a lesson for those of us in the united states? >> david cameron is elected in may 2010 and introduces through

his treasure sect a series of draconian cuts. 25% is cut from public housing. 25% frrs all nonhousing. and guess what, the british gorveths the british nation has just collapsed back into recession. the second quarter and there's a prediction there's going to be a third quarter of contraction, as well. a double dip recession. if you look at what osbourne and david cameron have proposed and expedited it's virtually word for word what paul ryan has said in his budget talking about $120 billion of cuts in two years and man daptory praxes of about $284 billion. similar cuts, what you will end up doing is what you have in great britain which isable economy which can't grow. we have unemployment that is now higher than it has been in 52 years. it's almost 9% in the uk. inflation is also going up, and manufacturing it is going down. there are few jobs. and there you have it. well done, paul ryan.

>> it's 0 not just england either. >> spain's horrendous. >> gdp in greece, portugal, italy and the netherlands where the pm just resigned amid proposed austerity measures. this doesn't seem to be a very good working model and yet the debate continues here as if nothing is happening over there. >> my perspective is a little different than martins not unexpectedly. >> an itinerant drifter in the style of huck finn. >> just to differentiate, i agree with martin's assessment of the misguided nature of the austerity legislation. and it's excruciating impact on the most vulnerable people and its complete inability to acknowledge the problems we face, not to suggest i disagree with that analysis. my disagreement is the with the suggestion that the alternative is simply more government spending as an alternate to what martin said which i believe is fundamentally a reflection of

the false choice that we continue to be presented in the mainstream political discourse between two political parties that benefit from asserting two false choices in the face of empirical scientific evidence from educators, health professionals, energy reform advocates using quilt thoroughly political reformers, and community restoration experts like david kennedy and others who are showing massive increases in the quality of learning through methods massive increases in statistics. there are so many and neck does of pretty americans that we've all been able -- people of this earth solving our problems in schools, in our hospitals, in our energy supply chain, in our political interactions or systems and in the way we deal with community violence, drug abuse that are never entertained in the two-party theater. in fact, we're always faced with this false choice which then you say martin's thing is horrible. i would never want to do that.

i guess i'll do something not that even if it doesn't solve the problem at a time when solutions are everywhere even if a lot of the political discourse doesn't go to it. >> never a man with big ideas. >> i'm saying that's happening. >> where does this hit the ground in terms of what to do in the uk right now? austerity isn't working, then your prescription is? >> community organization around your individual schools, individual hospitals. >> cameron talks about that all the time. the big society. that's the whole idea. >> that's what's happening whether we talk about it or not. >> rona. >> the first thing. >> a soft gong hit. >> the first thing you have to do is get political buy-in. that's another way in which the situation in europe is similar to the situation in the u.s. the reason the euro zone is crumbling, it was never set up as a political idea that everybody on the ground in the european street bought into. it's an idea about the elites. and now that it's crumbling, you can't get buy-in for austerity measures. they're tough in the best of circumstances politically.

if people on the street don't feel this is their idea. >> not part of the eurozone. it's not part of the euro. . >>. >> yeah, the philosophy stands and there is an idea in all of these places in the uk, in the u.s. and europe that the system is not fair, that it's broken and there's a group of entitled elites making plans over here and that the voters don't have enough to say. >> which is similar to what's happening in the united states. i think we should also mention what's going on in france. you now have a runoff between sarkozy and hollande, hollande offering a sharp rejoinder to have sarkozy's policies that he hatched with angela merkel. i wonder, martin, what you think if hollande is elected what that does to the austerities in europe. he has been not secretive about his thoughts and sort of trying to reverse some of those policies. >> well, the problem with the french experiment and the germans to some extent is that they are upholding the single

european currency. the differential is that in britain they're not part of the single european currency. so what you have is cameron's arguments is that nobody could have anticipated the euro zone's problems fiscally and financi financially and economically because of the single european currency. so he says i'm independent, i have a nation with a single currency that's independent for all those others and i'm going to expedite a theory that works, austerity. it hasn't worked. the french are now faced with this situation. they look as the a domestic situation where they will have similar problems but they're saying they're trying to resolve al issue outside of their country. >> i'm not going to defend austerity. i don't know exactly how one would do that. i will say looking quarter to quarter to see if a policy is working, david cameron's idea is over a long -- there is a reformation of fiscal policy. >> it's been almost two years. >> the by-product of all this though, the by-product of all of the failure, the failure of liberal policy, the failure of

conservative policy, the failure of two-party politics is that you are seeing again an incredible eruption of people in their own schools. so the political solution that we all plea, we need the government. people are saying no, no, no. i'm going to my school. i'm going to my hospital. i'm working on my -- >> what's the economic answer? i get your point about social. >> the economic answer is a marshall plan debt restructuring and the restoration of capital requirements so that the entire western financial system no longer manufactures risk as a professioning. >> debt restructuring has been done in greece and look what happeneded. >> no it hasn't. >> they restructured all of the debt. >> no, they haven't. saying things not true doesn't make them true. >> we'll talk more about dylan ratigan for president and president obama set to hold another event tackling student loan debt. mitt romney is taking up the

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>> you didn't take out loans because you're lazy. you don't take out loans lightly. you don't say to yourself, man, this is great. i'm going to be really in debt. i'm thrilled. you did it because the cost of college kept on going up and you're trying to graduate. >> our members are talking about the student loan problem was created by democrats trying to find a responsible way to fix it. >> that was president obama and that was house speaker john boehner with dueling takes on the looming student loan crisis which could double rates come this summer. in less than ha hour, the president will continue his pitch when he meets with students at the university of iowa, the third stop on a college tour that began yesterday. wes, i want to talk to you about this first. the issue of student loans is something we're going to be talking about a lot. right now, student loans are the

student loan rates are 3.4%. if nothing is done, they will double to 6.8% come july 1st. it is interesting interesting being perhaps a euphemism said that the loan program was created by democrats. george w. bush enacted the lower student loan rates. we talk about mobility in this society and the ability to get a good education which then leads to a job. and strengthens the economy and the statistics we have now showing in america, i believe, i don't have the stats, somewhere it is. here we go, the bureau -- that mobility in the united states of america has dropped significantly in the last few decades and at root, an the root of that, at the core of that i think is access to education and the opportunity gap. the student loan, closing -- keeping student loan rates down seems to be a fundamental if you want to strengthen the american economy. >> that's right. one thing we have to remember about this, particularly for the poor, particularly for the least of us, the best way we can address mobility in this country is by addressing the educational

disparities within this country. it is statistically and quantitatively the most effective thing we can do. higher education is about more than just putting a degree on your wall or framing something to put on your office or something to talk about at dinner parties. as you move up in higher education, your net works change, your friendships change, your connections change. that is how this whole process of jobs and job creation in this country works. why this becomes so important is this. as we're having the larger debates about student loan rates it, also peels the onion back about the larger challenge of higher education in this country and the fact we have more and more people not only feel like they're getting priced out but more and more people who don't academically qualify for that. . this is a much larger issue the president wants to bring to bear in this election cycle. >> student loan debt is $867 billion ahead of both credit card and auto loans. that is -- if you're talking about the economy, that's verinist. this is staggering. last year, 53.6% of young adults

25 or younger with bachelor degrees were without a job or under employed into that speaks to the whole problem with higher education. it's not just about four-year degrees. we need to talk about technical education, too. the president's getting behind that. community colleges and hooking those colleges up with employers. i actually went to visit a very interesting school, it's a combined high school community college in brooklyn. they work with ibm, the new york city of department of education. they show the kid waiting for them at the end of six years and connect the dots. what results is higher graduation levels and a workforce that's actually prepared for the jobs that we have. >> i think it's worth you know, we are talking about this in the context of a campaign season. and one of the things the student loan debt discussion does is prompt a closer look at policies regarding education. let's -- the obama campaign has put out a video about mitt romney's positions on education. let's take a look that the. -- at that.

>> the befrts thing i can do for you is to tell you to shop around. >> this was part of a town hall. dylan, president obama effectively says go to the cheaper college and don't expect the government help you with any of your debs. >> i love that statement actually because when you look at where we are in 2012, the cost of learning in the world right now has collapsed. the ability to learn things is the cheapest it has ever been in the history of humankind. >> that have is interesting in its profound contrast to the price that we're charging people to get quote an education. and so i think as people realize the distinction between the incredible ease with which we can learn and organize and solve problems, which is why we want people to have an education, and recognize that we have special interests in our government that be lobbying for tax subsidies for for profit colleges and

non-profit colleges which benefit those institutions' profitability but do not provide learning and as you realize the entire system is set up for prestige which is money and then for tax subsidies, not for learning and you realize there's an entirely other universe of human beings working in the school you are at, in the schools you've been to, we've all been to schools where people's focus is learning and we invest more of our time in that. we'll spend less of our time with this nonsense and take advantage of the fact that these really expensive educations are going to render themselves obsolete. >> this is also about opportunity. >> that's the biggest thing i agree with that. >> we need to invest in public education i think. and also make higher education accessible for those that need it. >> do you need to invest in it or change the method you use to do it? is it about money or method. >> overhaul of the method by folks getting a higher education as much as you say this is the

free market. >> you need to overhall the whole thing. >> i don't think the con academy is a replacement for reform in schools. >> nor did i say that. >> it's an important add-on. the problem with the debt wouldn't be so depressing if we didn't have double digit unemployment figures for the young people. connecting the job creators like companies like ibm, like caterpillar with the schools and with the education system. create courses that are going to teach kids what they need to know. we need to think about that, not these faux majors like sports marketing. >> you were just talking about the presidential election. the president embodies a life that has been the recipient of grants, assistance from central government in order to enable him to fulfill his tremendous potential. there would not be a president barack obama without those kinds of things. while dylan draws attention to

these grassroots localized communities of learning focused on purpose with jobs. >> the culture. >> and with jobs in mind and i see your link in all that, you still have to ask yourself whether we can afford to simply toss people out to the market in this sector and say, just find the best degree, the cheapest degree you can afford. what's going to happen when kids actually can't afford but have the ability to get in? and that's a problem i think that really that defines the current president with mitt romney in so many ways. mitt romney's father was the president of american motors and a governor and he himself has twos degrees from harvard. and he has a trust fund for his children that's worth $100 million. great for them. but what about the rest of us? >> and i think what's striking is that it's become a partisan issue. this used to be something everybody could agree. people col agree certain parts of the sector needed to be reformed, that new experimental sort of options were things to explore, but now it is political

football. >> with the environment the same thing. >> or immigration. >> clean air and water are american things. it's crazy. >> they are american things and you are. well, you're a british thing. you're an honorary american. >> whatever you wish. >> my special thanks, very sincere thanks go to my bull pen guests today, martin bashir, dylan rhadigan, the tom sawyer and huck finn of american broadcasting. see martin today at 3:00 p.m. followed by dylan and don't miss that handoff. it's the best three minutes of television on this network. coming up, a ground breaking new development in the u.s. military. the most male dominated branch of the armed forces is now taking steps towards moving women to the front lines. details next in what now! you know who you are. you can part a crowd, without saying a word. you have yet to master the quiet sneeze. you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts.

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welcome back. time for what now. the marine corps says it's beginning to move women closer to the front lines.

wes moore, a move forward? it will not be the very front lines of the battle but quite close. >> they'll go through all the and i infantry training that the marines go through. what's interesting there's this idea that women are not seeing combat. it is absolutely inaccurate. between both the conflicts in iraq and afghanistan, women have found themselves unless combat situations and have pinched wonderfully when put in the that situation. i'm excited to see these new developments. the army has been doing this for a while by sending women off to airborne school, even though they might not be infantry. the fact we can allow them to perform is a fantastic development. >> a changing, changing dynamic inside the u.s. army. >> i can only see this through a political lens. this will be potentially part of the argument that the obama administration is going to make that you know, we are very, very attuned to the needs and desires of women and -- >> sending them off to war.

>> i'll tell you why i'm for this, because the u.s. military is one of the greatest vehicles for social mobility in the u.s. >> it is indeed. we will leave it on that very positive and clean note. thanks again to scott, wes, rana and hugo. i'll see you tomorrow at noon/9:00 a.m. pacific when i will be in washington, d.c. joined by dee dee myers, sam stein and time's michael duffy. till then, find us at facebook.com/now with alex. "andrea mitchell reports" is next and live here in the big apple. oh. let's go. from the crack, off the backboard. [ laughs ] dad! [ laughs ] whoo! oh! you're up! oh! oh! so close! now where were we? ok, this one's good for two. score! [ male announcer ] share what you love with who you love. kellogg's frosted flakes. they're gr-r-eat!

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the chevy cruze eco also offers 42 mpg on the highway. actually, it's cruze e-co, not ec-o. just like e-ither. or ei-ther. or e-conomical. [ chuckling ] or ec-onomical. pa-tato, po-tato, huh? actually, it's to-mato, ta-mato. oh, that's right. [ laughs ] [ car door shuts ] [ male announcer ] visit your local chevy dealer today. now very well qualified lessees can get a 2012 chevy cruze ls for around $159 per month. e.p.a. estimated 36 miles per gallon highway. mitchell reports," spring training is over. welcome to opening day as mitt romney fine tunes his message. >> it's still about the economy, and we are not stupid. >> and newt gingrich plans to get out next week. >> we're going to stay very,

very active. we're working out the details of our transition and we'll have information for the press the next couple days. >> but why is rick santorum still playing hard to get? we'll ask romney adviser kevin madden. supreme showdown today. the court hears arguments on arizona's controversial immigration law. and as the obama college tour continues, we'll talk student loans with campaign senior adviser david axelrod and arne duncan, plus the president's close encounter of the yogurt kind. >> >> you got me. you got me. whose yogurt gone the me? you got a good story to tell. >> and slow jamming with jimmy fallon. >> and and the president know is his stuff, y'all. that's why they call him the potus, which means person on top -- what is it? >> yimy, potus stands for