good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. unbelievable. leading off, america at the crossroads. this country has a choice. suddenly starker than anyone could imagine. the man who carries the republican banner for the presidency has now thrown down the challenge. all his talk about liking to fire people, about having two cadillacs, about nascar teams. he says it all means something big. romney wants the country to live in a country where financial wealth, like his, is not just respected but catch this, could be congratulated. people who make less, regular people, they have to look up to people like romney. and they darn well better. let romney and his wife depend on -- actually, let obama and his wife depend on student loans, republican party's for the successful. the successful as i said, in the latest romney speech, are to be

congratulated. the successful are to call the shots. it is unbelievable how he laid it out. plus, newt gingrich says he will bow out after one more loo week of the good life as candidate. see where he will not endorse romney, we can't do it. another one is barack obama. all of the president's campaigning skills are on display the last tw days, when he was slow jamming the news with jimmy fallon or getting yogurt spilled on him. in a tight race, how do you compete with testimony that one? arizona rising. at the supreme court. justices appeared sympathetic to arizona's tough as nails immigration law. how will latinos handle that p justices uphold the law? a candidate wants his wealth applauded and admits needing student loans to get through school. national affairs editor and david corn from another jones

and most importantly today, author of the brand new book "showdown." great book. both these gentlemen are msnbc political talents. anyway, in his victory speech, mitt romney seemed to try to steal a page from obama ae play book, highlighting fairness. he will fight for it, should he win. in fact using a variation of the word fair six times in one paragraph. let's listen. >> this america is fundamentally fair. we will stop the unfairness of urban children being denied access to the good schools of their choice. well stop the unfairness of politicians giving taxpayer money to their friends' businesses. we will stop the unfairness of requiring union workers to contribute to politicians not of their choosing. we will stop the unfairness of government workers getting better pay and benefits than the very taxpayers they serve.

and one generation passing larger and larger debts on to the next. >> a huge problem out there, john, you are covering this campaign, writing another book on it. here is the problem with this guy, romney. at the same time he comes out and said not only should we respect great wealth we should congratulate it. congratulate people that make money, no matter how they make it. land developers, strip miners, hedge funders, whatever. make a lot of money and applaud you and congratulate you. at the same time, he is trying to poach the theme of fairness from the democrats because he saw the wall street journal nbc poll last week that showed fairness beats the stuff that he has been selling. your thoughts? >> well, chris, i mean, first of all, i think there's no question that it is a problem to try to co-op this theme of the democrats for mitt romney. i think any discussion of fairness is largely defined behind democratic terms so you have conversations about the tax code and those conversations are

to the presidents and democrats advantage. i think what rm knee campaign is trying to do here is trying to do something they have been doing and quite effectively for a little while. which is to say, we won't seed any turf to this president. well fight, not let you have ground, that you can have just uncontested. that is a fighter stance and it works well with republican voters. might even work well with voters in the middle. as you say, i think you end up playing on president's turf. but this language issue as you just pointed out, there is a mile, more than a mile, many miles, an ocean of difference between respect and congratulations and congratulate any politician seen on stage congratulating himself is not someone that gez over well with voters. self congratulations is not a pretty thing to say in any public figure and romney is seen congratulating himself and rich people in the back. >> yeah, a quarter million and it's his. but now he wants people in the new speech of his to

congratulate people who make a lot of money. teacher doesn't make a lot of money, and the cop who catches bad guys, forget them. if you are rich, we should congratulate you and make you a leader. i have never seen it laid out there like it he is now. >> and attacking success. meaning, attacking people who want it give tax breaks to the rich and the wall street melt down that cost this economy millions of jobs. the interesting thing to me, playing off john's point, in my book which covered 2011, i saw how the president spent the whole year trying to set up a contrast in vision and values with the republicans first playing off the ryan budget and now playing off the romney. now the romney campaign say, listen, now we are toward have a conversation and fight over values and vision. they are say we we will give you the vision. our vision is, i'm a success. you should like that. he is taking it dead on to

obama's effort to make the selection. not just a referendum on obama but the vision and values of what this country should be. >> he uses the terms like congratulate. i will go over that for a while. i've never seen a politician say, i'm rich, congratulate me. and then like bush on war, with the words of iraq and al qaeda and put them all together. success can mean a lot of things in our country. you can write a great novel and nobody every reads it until you're dead, but you're still successful. but his definition is money. and money talks. can you see it in his campaign. super pac money. he is basically bought the primaries and caucus with huge amounts of money. and now he is saying, we should worship at the alter of this big money. not only a nomination of his party, we should congratulations that money. it's pretty -- it is going beyond gordon gecko, this guy. >> this is something about the

word congratulate. a the who of times when congratulations are in order. like a blessing, a wedding, a child born, a new job at work, congratulate them on that. but you congratulate someone for a heroic act. you mentioned cops and teachers, chris. those people do things they should be congratulated forever day. i think there is nothing wrong with making money in america. we don't penalize that. we shouldn't say there is nothing wrong with being entrepreneurial success. the economy depends on that. but congratulating yourself for success rubs people the wrong way. politicians who are successful are ones who make the campaign about other people. about we, not about me. not about patting themselves on the back in an untoward way. >> he better be prepared to explain how he made every nickel at bain capital. okay, explain how ut made the

money. >> this opens the door for that. we thought it was gone with newt gingrich's documentary being done and over with. but this opens the door. if you think you are the definition of success, which is what he was saying. look at me, i am success. then let's put that under the microscope and look at that. and the bain bane, you know, there are examples but there are times when they didn't exact act in a fair manner. he talks about success equalling fairness. if you lose your job because guys come in and take it away, that's not fair. >> in an interview with piers morgan, santorum was asked if he would now be willing to endorse romney. it is kind of painful to watch santorum avoid saying yes. >> do you believe mitt romney is the right guy? >> i believe he is the -- obviously i believed i was the better choice, but i'm not in this race any more. >> he won the race. >> he won the race. >> is he, therefore, the right

guy. >> absolutely. set person that will go up against barack obama. it's pretty clear. we need to win this race. >> isn't that -- unless i'm mishearing things, you just endorsed mitt romney. >> well, you can call it whatever you want. >> am i wrong? karen one know your husband. has he just endorsed mitt romney? >> not at this point, no. >> that's interesting. piers goes to the wife it ask what the husband is saying. he just didn't do it. i think if you put that fwie in a stress test, i don't think you would have heard him honest live say, i really like this guy running for president rb mitt romney. he detests mitt romney. because romney used saturation bombing, huge amounts of money from his equity buddies to destroy that guy and -- well you can say all is fair in politics. but it wasn't an argument that won the battle. huge of amounts of money in states like iowa and michigan and across ohio. in every one of those states, he

smothered the guy in negative advertisement. is this what we will see in the general, romney running around bragging about wealth and spending friends' money to destroy obama? >> he will certainly try to spend -- he will try to spend his friends' money to be competitive with the president. i think both sides will be up to their neck in a lot of money. they will both raise money from a lot of rich people and that is fine. but i think that rick santorum in this case one said it was painful to watch. i think he was clearly in pain having to answer the question. it looked like piers morgan was kicking him in the shins under the table. he looked like he was almost in physical pain. i think his emotional response to the way that romney treated him has made him act in a nonstrategic way. if you want it get something out of romney, could have got more out of him two weeks ago. i think he is a wasting asset, his leverage. >> i know you remember jackie gleason in the honeymooners. he was saying hamanana, he didn't want it answer the question.

santorum has a choice to make. eventually whether he is a cleer leader for romney. while there are conservatives looking to him to lead the conserve tifr movement. there is no leader at the moment. that means an ideological enforcer, upon mitt romney. you can't do both at the same time. he has it figure out what his future is. is it leading the social conservative movement or something in politics? >> by the way, you talk about being in the face of santorum, i disagree with his politics. but i was thinking about woody allen saying, i haven't einvolved successfully enough so i can experience any own death and still carry a tune. i think that is where we're at here. thank you, john with. thank you david corn. author of this new book, "showdown." i show that they actually physically show the book. great book. i'm dead serious. coming out, president obama is on the trail and he is showing off what a lot of people might have forgotten. he is a heck after campaigner.

this is "hardball." for a girls night out talking about activia. this is "hardball." fafter campa. this is "hardball." after campaigner. this is "hardball." after campaigner. this is "hardball." fter campaigner. this is "hardball." ter campaign. this is "hardball." er campaigne. this is "hardball." r campaigner. this is "hardball." campaigner. this is "hardball."

well, the end is near for newt gingrich. the candidate who said he had high hopes for first, a close second finished in delaware, take a look at this wipeout. nearly 30 points behind romney. newt will suspend his campaign next week and he sounded like the end was near this afternoon. let's listen. >> also committed to citizens to taking big solutions to tampa, and arguing that republican platform has to be a solidly conservative platform. and we will continue to move forward. but we will do so within a framework where i think it is pretty clear, that governor romney will be the nominee based on the sheer weight of yesterday's evidence. and we need to work in with a way that we can find a way it focus on defeating obama, not

focus on fighting ourselves. >> wow, romney running on perhaps a right wing platform. we'll be right back. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro. the chevy cruze eco also offers 42 mpg on the highway. actually, it's cruze e-co, not ec-o. just like e-ither. or ei-ther. or e-conomical. [ chuckling ] or ec-onomical. pa-tato, po-tato, huh? actually, it's to-mato, ta-mato. oh, that's right. [ laughs ] [ car door shuts ] [ male announcer ] visit your local chevy dealer today. now very well qualified lessees can get a 2012 chevy cruze ls for around $159 per month.

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i want to slow jam the news. and i'm not the only one. [ cheers and applause ] >> i'm president barack obama. and i, too, want it slow jam the news. >> welcome back to "hardball." even president obama's detractors have to admit, he is a truly gifted campaigner. his appearance on late night with jimmy fallon and visiting colleges show he is in a campaign by himself. as he said, he was slow jamming the news. let's listen. >> now is not the time to make school for expensive for our young people. [ cheers and applause ]

♪ oh, yeah ♪ you should listen to the president ♪ ♪ or as i like to call him, the preezy of the united sst eezy ♪ >> the reason it's so important to keep down costs is so we keep college affordable. ♪ and the president knows his stuff, y'all ♪ ♪ that why they call him the potis, can means person on top -- ♪ -- what is it. >> jimmy, potis stands for president of the united states. >> well the president is campaigning generally whether on late night tv or mixing it up with college students is in sharp cannontrast to romney.

many years ago i discovered a great place it figure out who is winning different races. anyway, let's go to joan. this campaigning here, i want to look here at the yogurt situation. the president made an unscheduled stop to a dive bar called the sink. and was doused in frozen yogurt. that the stuff that taste good that belonged to a student. after a little ribbing, president obama quickly put the young woman at ease. >> oh, look, you got me. you got me. >> i'm so sorry. . >> obama, will you please take a picture. >> whose yogurt got on me? >> i'm really sorry. it was mine. >> you've got a good story to tell. >> joan, what do you think of this? this guy has goodcy naps. later on, speaking at the university of colorado, the president joked about the yogurt incident. let's listen.

>> i was shaking hands with folks outside and a young woman, she got very excited and spilled yogurt on me. huh. more hazardously, she spilled yogurt on the secret service -- the agent just stood there, just looking at her. >> well, joan, you know, i get charmed fairly easily by different politicians. here he is, doing his best. i tell you, he does have a pretty good ability to adapt to strange circumstances, like getting splashed with yogurt. >> splashed with yogurt, chris, and not all of us could slow jam the news p.m. i'm not sure i would be up to it, so that was very funny too. look, it is problematic for mitt romney. it is not just that he is awkward, he just seems to entitled. when he gets offered cookies, he makes jokes about the cookies rather than graciously accepting the cookies, like we were all

taught. you take food from people. every culture, that's a nicety. that's a kindness. and mitt romney just can't compete on the basic human relationship level. so you know, i've seen a lot of wing nuts suggesting that president obama's appearance was some kind of campaign violation law. they are desperate. that went very well for him. >> making your point. mitt romney just couldn't have the same gift for retail, getting along with people. last week in pittsburgh, he managed to offend many local people in pittsburgh when he questioned the cookies from a famous area bakery. let's listen to this absurdity. >> i'm not sure about the cookies. they don't look like you made them. did you make those cookies? you didn't, did you? no, no. they came from the local 7-eleven, bakery, or whatever. >> put down the local product. good move there. while campaigning in june, he met with a couple unemployed

floridians and had this cringe-inducing line. >> you should tell my story. i'm also unemployed. >> that's a hoot. erin? >> it is. >> you don't make fun about being unemployed when there is real unemployed people there going through the humiliation of it, and you are a quarter billionaire, and they know it. >> yeah. and that i think is why we keep hearing the president say, michelle and i were paying off our student loans just eight years ago. you know, it is not just the finances, i think, that obama is better at relating to people. he is better at relating by saying, i've been through some of the same struggles that you have. he understands college kids. almost sometimes when he is campaigning, surprised he is the president of the united states. he just said yes, you know, i'm the president of the united states even i just paid off my student loans eight years ago. same thing, a girl spilling yogurt on him.

can you believe it? she has a story to tell. she spilled yogurt on me and she has a story to tell. and people like it. >> if you think romney were pompous now, can you imagine if he is president. the sense of entitlement that exudes from him. imagine if he were actually elected. i don't think he would connect to regular people. >> ann romney, who is generally the likeable of the pair, saying it is mitt's time. there is this inibcredible contrast. people who are fortunate product of the american dream, who as erin says, are taken aback about their success and are pretty darn gracious about it most of the time. >> he is working student now, people in their 20s. and people are still in school. which of them will vote for romney? it seems to me the only ones

that would naturally be driven to someone like him would be the b school people. some of the kids in business school who can't wait to go out and make money and equity and wall street as fast as they can, no matter how they make it. and say, i want to be like him. that would be a small group of kids, i would think. >> i have talked to some mba holders, when you try to figure out, who loves mitt romney and wants him to be president. it is those people who realize dea lot with venture capitalist -- >> and would be good on their tax coverage. they wouldn't be taxed much. >> but they appreciate what he has done where they understand it. where as so few people do. >> we will come back it that. if he focuses on his success, as. >> he calls it, being rich, and focusing op on the need to be congratulated for it, where would he put himself in the corner and have to explain how he made the money? all the chop shop, breaking up of corporations. buying little companies and breaking them up. selling them off.

making money and firing people, which he says he likes to do. >> he hasn't yet defined what success was at bane. he hasn't said what are the lessons he learn. >> money. >> well, evidently so. >> that's what he says. >> but he won't say, what lessons did i learn from turning around companies, that i would then apply to government. >> imagine you are a teacher. you bust your hump everyday to be a good taef teacher. maybe a magnet school, maybe a public school, maybe 50 a year, or maybe more. so those are the ones to be -- not the cop or firefighters, not the teacher, who maybe retires okay, but never rich. they are not the ones to be congratulated. no. the big money people, successful

like me, quarter billion airs. how is that going to sell, joan, to people who are not like that. the small group that he is themselves in romney's shoes some day? >> i don't think it will sell. on the other hand -- >> these are his words. prs. >> i know, congratulatory. not that we should all respect each other. it is congratulations. so talk about class warfare. it is elevating one class above another. on the other 457b hand, i do want it say that the president will get most young people's votes for sure. the question is really excitement and turnout in november. and i think he is right to focus on the student loan issue because student loan indebtedly is bigger than credit card debt. that's a scandal. when i went to school school was $300 a semester. i'm not that old. we aren't making the american dream possible for kids any more. i think the president needs to talk more about that directly to young people. >> maybe he will get more votes if it looks like he is running

against gold finger. thank you joan, thank you erin. up next, how do you know that marco rubio is vetted for vp? stick around for the for the side show. he is definitely being vetted. he is being carried around by this guy. you're watching "hardball." [ male announcer ] if your kid can recognize your sneeze from a crowd... you're probably muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. love the air. on the first day you take it. free-credit-score-dot-com'sur boargonna direct you ♪ts ♪

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back to "hardball." marco rubio is one of the potential running mates for mitt romney. but how can we tell if he is beg vetted? well for former mccain advisors, steve schmidt, this said it all. >> i'm not going to discuss it any more, because now there's a real process in place and i want to be respectful of the process he is working on. i think it would be wriez for all republicans to respect the process. he has a process and we should respect that process. >> here is steve schmidt reading between the lines. >> to me that says, i'm getting vetted. once you start going through that, going through the process,

you stop talking about the process. so people who aren't getting vetted are going to say, i'm not being vetted, i'm not going to do it. people who are going to be vetted say, i will respect the process and i won't talk about that. but his answer it me clearly said said, yeah, he is turning over records and documents. >> rob portman is the current front runner in the republican deep stakes. and rick santorum's painful back and forth with piers morgan not endorsing romney but he is not the only one of the 2012 crowd also yet to admit that romney is even conservative. >> is governor romney a conservative? >> well, that what voters are choosing right now. i think that he's got a very good record in a number of different areas, and he's explaining that record. he is doing that in a big policy speech. >> has he satisfied you? >> again, the point is, he is satisfying people across the

country in primary krass overwhelmingly, he is satisfying them. because they are giving him his vote. he had a clean sweep tonight. that's a pretty strong endorsement. >> that's michele bachmann refusing to speak pour michele bachmann. hillary clinton joined the time 100 list at a new york city gaila last night. clinton gave a nod to someone else on the list but was a no-show. let's watch. >> time honored so many national and global leaders. there's many i haven't had a chance to meet yet. i was sort of hoping kim jonah would show up. i don't think he's here. but if you catch sight of him, let me know. we are still trying to figure out he is all about. >> wow, no sign of the north korean dictator. clinton's popularity is through the roof lately. a washington post abc poll has

her favorbility at 65%. her poll shows she is by far the top picks among deck krats for 2016 presidential race. up next, united states supreme court seems ready to uphold arizona's very tough immigration law. that helped rally latino voters to president obama in november? you betcha. you're watching "hardball." look, every day we're using more and more energy. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building

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willing the company's blowout earnings report that came out on tuesday. that's it from cnbc. we are first in business worldwide. now back over to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the supreme court heard arguments today on the constitutionality of the arizona immigration law. . civil liberty group says the law encourages racial profiling. the law requires immigrants to carry proof of their status. requires police it attempt to determine the status of a person if there is a quote reasonable suspicion that he or she is here illegally. it also makes it a crime for undocumented workers to try to get a job. it allows police it arrest suspected illegal immigrant without a warrant. and on today's hearing supreme court justices seem to be prepared to uphold at least part

of the law. afterwards supporters of the law sounded optimistic. here is arizona gov o nor jan brewer. let's watch. >> my very, very -- we were all able to view today and hear, i thought the hearing went very, very, very well. i feel very confident. we will get a favorable ruling. >> wow. so what would it mean if the law or parts of it wore upheld by the supreme court and how would that play out in the presidential campaign. victoria defrancesca soto is a contributor to and fellow to the university of texas. ladies, thank you for joining us tonight. it is an interesting night because we are becoming experts at watching supreme court arguments, whether this or the healthcare bill. let me start with angela who is with me right now. it seems like the people who want the bill, the tough law to be upheld by the court to be made constitutional, basically declared that way, are happy.

>> well -- >> january brewer looks happy. >> well, she might be happy now. i don't think in the aftermath of this law whether it goes up or down that conversation's over. particularly latinos are listening very carefully to how the candidates are talking about it. what happens to them everyday on the street, whether they are harassed or not. so the conversation is not over today whether jan brewer is happy or not. >> well hammer to be used against romney this fall? >> look, the candidates -- he's going to have to answer the question, what do you think of arizona law. he already told us he supports it. i think would he applaud it if supreme court uploelds it. that will run smack into what latinos care about. that matters a lot in states like nevada, florida, new mexico, colorado. >> it'll mean electoral votes for obama? >> i think it could help him. this isn't some small state issue. this is like a referendum. it is a proxy for acceptance by

the latino community. so they are listening very carefully. >> victoria, 10% of voters, we're here, this is the election year a few monthes from now, 10% of people, one in ten walking into the ballot box and deciding who the next president is be were coming from hispanic backgrounds. they will be latinos. will the decision to supreme court to say yes to jan brewer and her smile, will that hurt romney? >> it won't hurt romney because he is also distanced himself so much from the latino population. we already knew beforehand that he was in favor of sp 1070. he also said early on in the primary that he would veto the dream act if he were president. he tried to soften it since. but he is no friend of immigration. we also know that above 85% of latino voters support immigration reform, in particular the dream act with the path to citizenship. so him cuddling up to marco is

not going to help him because the substance isn't there. >> is he aligned with the people who oppose the latino community? is that the way it's looked at? has he made his stand with the anglos, if you will, to use that phrase, has he made the decision, i don't want the latino vote? i want the people who don't like lati latinos? has he made that decision, victoria? has he taken sides? >> he absolutely did. he had to do it in the primary because in order to win the primary, he had to run to the extreme. what he feels in his heart of hearts, i don't know. but in this campaign year in 2012 -- >> i'm talking about not heart of hearts. i'm talking about the play he's made politically with is to go with the enemies of immigration. >> the game is all out against immigration. completely. and it is not like in 2004 where the republican candidate was actually open to immigration. so what we are seeing here is he claimed a state, he will try to walk it back a little bit. but it is not going to have an

affect on the latino population. >> let me ask you a political question, if you dare answer it, angela, when he out there flirting with the bromance with rubio from florida, can he go 180 and say, okay i've been tough on illegal immigration, tough on undock emt had workers. but i have a saddle buddy who spanish, comes from cuban background, will that turn things around politically. >> i don't think so. i think that insults the latino language that that would be enough that someone can speak the language i speak, or that he is handsome or has experience. rubio has been tough on immigration as well. you add up rubio's positions on it, romney's positions on it, they're in trouble. the road to the white house runs through the baro and they are at a dead end. they can't get there unless they dramatically change their tune on it. and i think it is too late. i think your other guest is completely correct. >> what do you think every part

party has to think of the future and where is it heading if it is anti-immigrant. >> he entrenched himself. in terms of the latinos, the republican latinos are about 20% of the population. he has support in florida. so he doesn't have to worry about them. but problem we really see is with the -- >> that's because cubans but a toe on in the sand and they were here. they add tremendous -- >> absolutely. >> i'm not against that at all. i'm for it. they were anti-communist. but they add tremendous leg up, literally, on everybody, didn't they? >> they did. so when we see the fact that he is getting very close to marco rubio, and the argument about, maybe latinos will cross party lines to vote for him, that is completely untrue. cubans are less than 10% of the latino population. and they are predominantly republican. where the vast majority of latinos are democrats of mexican decent.

so look at sand val. >> angela, you tell romney don't waste your time are rubio, you already lost. is it that rough? >> i think when it comes to the latino vote, he is in a very deep hole, and he keeps digging. there is no ladder long enough to get him out of the whole he's in. >>n't aren't you good with metaphors. no ladder long fluff to dig him out of the hole. the secret service sex scandal -- boy, a lot of ss. was this tolerated in the past in this ain't new, apparently. this is "hardball." tuscaloosa? schenectady. des moines. ok. ok. ok. i can't always be there to weed my petunias. so now we use miracle-gro shake 'n feed plus weed preventer. it feeds plants and prevents weeds for up to three months. so my plants grow bigger, more beautiful, without all the weeds. guaranteed. [ cellphone rings ] with miracle-gro shake 'n feed, anyone can have a green thumb. [ cellphone rings ]

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the more we help make opportunity possible. well, new results from the purple poll of swing states. let's check the "hardball" score board. take a look at the numbers from four key battle grounds states. first to ohio where president obama has five-point lead over romney. that's good, 49-45 in a state republicans need. in virginia obama's lead is down to two. been two, 48-46. obama and romney are tied, 47 a piece, in colorado. down in florida, romney by two. 47-45. very close in the states that will decide this thing. we'll be right back. ♪ strea-ea-ea-ea-eam ♪ ...stream, stream, stream... ♪ whenever i want you, all i have to do is... ♪ [ female announcer ] introducing xfinity streampix. stream your favorite movies and full seasons of shows instantly on any screen. find out more online.

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welcome back to "hardball." the secret service scandal na rocked the agency this month might not have been the result of a one-time occurrence, perhaps. that's according to washington post this morning which reported a 2009 instance of agents in script claups in argentina. there were tough questions by the senate judiciary committee today an a story not likely to i go way soon. senator richard bloon bloom enthat will from connecticut sets oin that kmity. david knack mara broke today's story. i have to start with the reporter then senator i want to you pick up on the significance of it politically. david, is it a fact or not, do we know, that was going to prostitutes, is that part of the secret service m.o. before cart hana or not? >> we don't know. we did hear from a current agent

who said, in 2009 that you just mentioned, when clinton was on, clinton wasn't there, but it was after hours, there were visits to the strip clubbes. >> but that's not in the same league. >> it's not in the same league but the agent did say that they heard about contact by age went prostitutes on that trip. and that there might have been photos. >> that's the only other case you've heard of. >> only specific case we've heard of. >> so not common practice. it is still, as the president said, referenced -- let's hear the president right now, then i want senator bloom enthat will to respond. as he put it well, a few knuckle heads. let's watch the president's description of what he said so far. senator? >> the secret service, these guys are incredible.incredible. they protect me, they protect michelle, our girls, and a couple of knuckle heads should

not detract from what they do, but what they were thinking i don't know. >> wow, senator, what do you make of this? is this still a couple of knuckle heads, or is there any hint here of a pattern of abuse? >> first of all, the president is right, they are incredible by and large, and there may have been two or 12. we think 12, and they were knuckleheads. the secretary aid very clearly they are looking into whether there may have been other incidents, how pervasive the practice may have been, and whether if any information was compromised or threatened to be compromised. i think they're moving very aggressively in an investigation that has to be thorough, fair, and effective. they're aware of the need for a really tough investigation here. >> this has been going on for a

couple weeks, the press coverage of this, and to some extent the action by your committee and the committee in the house. is this a systemic problem? >> the problem of whether it's systemic begins in part on what the rules were. in my rue, rules that permit secret service agents to go abroad, have women to their rooms, married or unmarried, paid or not, are rules that need to be strengthened and clarified. i think looking forward, there needs to be very serious review and revisited of this system to determine whether there are systematic defects and flaws. anybody who has ahad any secret service, and i have over the years, knows their professional, tough, and their integrity is unquestionable overall. and there are bound to be a few

bad apples. >> let me go back to david, where is the reporting going tonight? what we will read tomorrow? >> i think next is what people want to know about which is the director of the agency, mark sullivan. he is a 29 year veteran. and if there's been rumors about wheels up parties after the president leaving, this one happened before the president got there, you have counter snipers rofled. so who is mark sullivan. he was in charge of this agency in the last emergency. he emerged from that unscathed, and apologized on capitol hill for that, and he has not spoken publicly since this event. >> people seem to like him. they seem to like mark sullivan.

i get a sense of people at your level that he is respected a lot. that he has a lot of credit starting this, a lot of capital there. >> he is a career guy, regarded as a straight shooter, and he was very smart contacting the key congressman right away, waking him up at 5:00 in the morning, and calling him back again. i think he has been forth right, and every hopes this investigation will be quick and aggressive. it has to be tough. follow the evidence whereever it leads. >> land a lantern on your problem, it's smart to let the people know. thank you for joining us. when we return, let me finish with where i started tonight with this presidential election, a clear choice now. you see from what romney is saying the wealthy in this country should be congratulated, and obama talking about making it through college with student

loans. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this. i bathed it in miracles. director: [ sighs ] cut! sorry to interrupt. when's the show? well, if we don't find an audience, all we'll ever do is rehearse. maybe you should try every door direct mail. just select the zip codes where you want your message to be seen. print it yourself or find a local partner. and you find the customers that matter most. brilliant! clifton, show us overjoyed. no! too much! jennessa? ahh! a round of applause! [ applause ] [ male announcer ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail. avoid bad.fats.

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let me finish with this. i just figured out what this election is about. both will make gaffes, and say things they quickly wish they had not said. but who are they? that's something we can figure out from clear statements made recently. statements about values, the way they judge other people and wish

to be judged themselves. i'm talking about their accomplish wants and how they value them. mitt romney wants us to value what he calls success. others call it making big money. it doesn't mean how you make it, you live well. he wants to congratulate you. that's his world. yesterday at the university of north carolina, president obama said he and his wife michelle just finished paying off student loans eight years ago. they don't bring big incomes or big houses, but they do good. romney's view is out there for us now, he did not commit gaffes when he talked about a couple cadillacs, or that he enjoys firing people, that's the way he looks at things. money, money means success. it means people should look up to you, congratulate you because

of the prominence that wealth brings to you in this fair society of him. well, land developers, strip miners, hedge funders, you deserve congratulations on top of that money according to him. you should be a stand up that should be calling the shots. forget the teachers, firefighters, doctors that take care of low income patients. obama is not perfect, but they say a lot. he and michelle got success because they had brains and moxy to get there and they have given themselves to doing the same. these men running for president are very different. it's the statement their lives have made. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with