it change that you can campaign on? good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. in just a little bit i will take you to liberty university in virginia. seriously, i will take you to liberty university in virginia because former governor mitt romney will be delivering the school's commencement address and it was founded by tell va evangelist jerry falwell and it is a stop for those looking to polish the christian conservatives, and romney who has struggled with the conservatives is trying to score points with those who have so-called traditional family values, and also, they want to give him a message about nontraditional families and that is same sex couple, and they are

believed that mitt romney does not believe should marry and also cap off a week of uproar over the same-sex marriage, and in a lot of ways it is much ado about nothing. seriously, if you are a woman in america hoping to get married to a man or woman of the same sex, literally nothing changed for you. one state where same-sex marriage was illegal voted overwhelmingly to make same-sex marriage illegal. after that one man, very important man expressed his opinion about gay americans and marriage, and yet, while there has been no policy change on marriage equality, did you feel it? the entire culture has shifted incrementally starting with two. two people, one man and one woman joined in marriage are the only legal union recognized by the state of north carolina. thanks to 61%, and the percent of people who voted overwhelmingly in favor of

amendment 1. that puts the tar heel state on the list of states that has a statutory or state ban on same-sex marriage. it puts north carolina last on the list of states that have outlawed same-sex marriage, and may soon be followed by four more as washington and maryland and maine and idaho have legislation to vote for it. that would mean not allowing rights and benefits to people who are married and that is heterosexual married because zero is those benefits guaranteed to couples married or not according to the same sex rights act. and even for states who say you

can say i do. that is part of the culture shift that we have faced this week. they are part of the 50% of americans who say that same-sex marriage should be recognized and affirmed by law. and as of this week, those sup p supporters are joined in their number by one. one president. in an interview with robin roberts on "good morning america" spoke these 11 words. >> i think that same sex couples should be able to get married. >> and with those 11 words reached the end of a long evolution, and found that being fully human and being fully american means given equal right s regardless of the sex of the person you love. with me to tally the president's remarks is evelyn lewis, and joe watkins, republican strategist and former h.w. bush aide and

jonathan capehart and lizz winstead who is the host of the "daily show" and the author of "lizz free or die." what a week! i was trying to breath lelesslyt through it and it is one of the weaknesses of having a saturday show is that i kept wanting to say something all week long about this, and take a look at this week. what difference does this week make substantively? what difference does this week make? >> well, an enormous difference. the president of the united states has done what we lekt presidents to do, put the morale leadership out there in support of freedom and families and what is important is how he did it. he sat and talked about conversations with gay friends, with gay staffers and with his own family and talked about he and michelle talking with their daughter sasha and malia who talked with their parents about their classmates and the gay parents they have, and the president said i listened to my daughters and i thought, they

would never understand why classmates of their family should be treated unfairly. >> well, that is interesting, because sarah palin's daughter bristol palin actually critiqued the president on exactly that aspect of his discussion with robin roberts saying that he was sort of listening to the teenagers and what sort of father would govern by listen toing to the teenagers, but it did feel like there was an enormous difference that the president was setting between himself, and mitt romney in listening to his aide who is openly gay immediate the choice to allow that aide to leave the campaign rather than shifting and evolving on the position, so it felt like a clear distinction of how we listen and what we do with the new information that we have. >> and the president is very heart felt and personal and thoughtful words rang true, because it is the same journey that so many americans have taken and so many americans have changed their minds and opened their hearts as they have learned more about gay familyie

and why marriage matters. >> what are the politics on this, jonathan? >> well, the politics of this are going to be played out over many, many months. we have the initial reaction which was, oh, my god, this is going to hurt him in the black community and particularly with church going black people and i know that people are upset with the president, but ultimately into the ballot, and they go into the voting booth, they are going to decide with the president of whelmingly speaking. >> but jonathan, i want to let you go on, but i have to pause here, because this is one of the things that had me going absolutely -- >> crazy. >> nuts all week, because first the poll data said that 60% of americans saying overall this is not going to change their support of the president one way or another, either for him or against him, but this language around the african-american communities felt to me as though there was an underlying notion that the black communities are the most homophobic and most bigoted and most willing to change our support of a candidate who represents a party

that the african-american voters have voted more than 80% for, for decades. i will let you in, joe. i promise i will. >> and we have to let you in the context of the national organization for marriage which has had it obviously an anti-marriage equality organization and so much so that they put down in writing in a confidential memo unearthed by the human rights campaign that they would use this issue as a wedge issue to separate the african-american community from the progressive community against the president. they would use this as a way to hopefully in their view bring down the president. that is the context in which that conversation is happening. i think that you and i and a lot of other folks look at that and think, that is horrendous. that is -- you know, to pitting people against each other because they may or may not support people who are looking

for fairness and dignity for themselves and their families. >> let me let joe in. >> i agree and disagree, i agree with the part that the black people in general in the fall will side with the president. in overwhelmingly numbers i agree with you, jonathan. in the standpoint of the republicans using this against the president and that kind of of stuff is not the issue in the part that there are many black people who are conflicted with this. nay go t they go to churchf and believe in the bible and god has been good and i believe in god and god has been good to me. i'm not homophobic or bigoted and a lot of african-americans are in the same position, and they don't dislike people who are gay. >> i do have to say that the only position on which one denies marriage, excuse me, and the rights of marriage to someone simply because they disagree with them is inherently bigoted, right, which is to say it is one thing to be conflicted, ethically and morally conflicted and i would push back that the fundamental

commendments of god are again, and even from the new testamentt and christian -- >> i know i studied them in seminary. >> i am a sem tarycemetersecem . >> and he says to love and obey. >> and he says the le vit cal code, and he is standing back in a conversation with religious leaders asking him about the leviticusal code, and pushing back from the greater context of the commandment is about god's grace and then i will say particularly that in a country where for example muslims don't have christian marriage, they have islamic marriage, and where jews don't have christian marriage, they have jewish marriage and the idea that it

has to fit into all of the christian marriage. >> and speaking in an authoritytive way about what god likes and doesn't like does not fit into what we like and doesn't like, but god is god, and he is separate from us, and we are not the creator, but the creation. >> and it feels like you are about to -- >> well, for people of faith like me, i pastor a church and everybody is welcome to come to the church that i serve and not my church, but the church i serve, but we can come together because we are in the same boat because we are sinners and saved by grace. >> but we are not all in the same boat as a matter of law, because there is a group of people who are not in the same boat who are shut out of thousands of rights and privileges as a matter of actively purposely shut out by the government. >> and who also don't at the end your church and part of your religion. >> and yes, joy-ann reid. >> and i'm respecting religion and a person of faith, but again, when we go down that path and stop talking about the

constitution first, it is worrisome to me first and when we talk about the way that the politics will fall out and the first thing we heard is what bristol palin says and others have said as well is why doesn't the president listen, too. take that mean. the president should always be listening and we should always be listening, because as evan so adeptly pointed out, as we are hearing people change their mind on marriage equality, it is about who we come into contact with and who we know and who we live next to. now i wish that there was a way that we could start some gay movement where everybody move into neighbors where we need to know people, right, because that seems to be the sentiment that comes from race and everything, and how we do that, i don't know, but -- >> and one point is that the law is circumvented. >> and we will continue the talk about god. why not. as soon as we get back, because i want you to hear the latest accusation that somehow the president made god cry this

weekend and we will talk about that and much more on same-sex marriage when we come back. ♪ will say i do ♪ and will never be lonely anymore ♪ time for the new business entrepreneur of the week. ken whiting and his nephew jeff owns whiting foods which has owned food concessions on the san francisco boardwalk. they employ hundreds of teenagers and they have learned that managing the generation means you have to speak their language. for more watch "your business" sunday mornings on msnbc. ♪ [ male announcer ] this is your moment. this is zales. the diamond store. take an extra 10% off storewide now through saturday.

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let's solve this.

president obama's support of same-sex marriage may have made the lgbt community happy, but he has made god sad, seriously, that is the gospel according to franklin graham, the son of billy graham, the televangelist. and he said in my view, president obama has shaken the fist at the same god who created and defined marriage. it grieves me that our president would now affirm same-sex marriage though i believe it grieves god even more.

still with me at the table evan wilson, joe watkins, john cape hart and lizz winstead. god is weeping and it is beautiful and sunny and god is smiling at least in new york. >> well, again, it is problematic when people speak for god. i don't want people to speak for me and nevermind god, even though they are studied on it, but i don't believe that god is weeping about somebody wanting to have two people to find their happiness and god weeps for poverty and he weeps when we drop drones on children in afghanistan and there are many reasons for god the weep, but i simply do not believe that two people who are trying to find their best selves in a partner is something to -- >> and trying to raise a family and trying to hold the family together and trying to ensure that their children, and that their family have the same rights and protections that the straight married couple next door have.

i mean, how does that make god cry? >> and earlier, you were making a claim around creation and the idea that god creates us, a part of that idea, and part of that idea and let me be clear, that is clearly a theological debate and scientific debate about all of that and not scientific debate about the beginning, but the notion of god as the sort of initiator of it, and that said, if we believe that god is the creator of all human things and does not make mistakes like we say in the black church, why would god weep about the gays and lesbians and all people? >> well, god loves everybody and not everything that we do. he wants us to love each other and does not sign off on everything that we do. we don't always understand why god has issued the commands that he has. he has, and he says, i like this or that. >> and there is no commandment. >> or pronouncements or call it what you want. >> there is nothing against it. >> there is discussion by paul,

the apostle paul who is one of the big writers in the new testament. >> sure, sure. >> and the old testament as well. >> right, right, but the bible is an attested an contradictory document and there are discussions. >> in the minds of some people, but for other people, they take it as the proven infallible word of god. >> and sometimes it says two different things. >> well, maybe for you it may say that but not for me it doesn't and for lots of people who read the bible who follow god and believe in christ and in many instances, that is not the case for them, and the whole point is that we are supposed to love the lord our god with all of the mind and the soul and the strength, and the neighbors as we love ourselves. >> and let me go back to the political conversation. >> people who do believe in christ and god are the president and the first lady. >> and the vice president. >> and let's go back to what the president said, and you are absolutely right. joe biden is a practicing catholic, but what the president

talked about is the conversations that he and michelle have as people who believe in christ, and people who believe in god and the values they are teaching the daughters, and they were specific about it. >> and well, they don't -- >> well, let me just say that what they believe is that the bible tells them to teach their children the golden rule of treating others as you would want to be treated and that resonates for them. now, that goes to the point that as you just said that people are entitled to have different religious views and the president has his, but what the government doesn't -- >> and he does not follow christ on this one. >> and he does not follow your idea, but he is a real serious and deep person and great family man, and this is what he believes, but more importantly, the government does not issue bar mitzvah licenses or communion licenses, and we don't want the government picking and choosing whether your religion or the president's religion is right, and we want the government to treat us all fairly and justly and that is what the president put into the mix as well, and that is what he is supposed to do.

>> i believe that everybody should be treated fairly, and that is is true. >> and this other piece that we will hear from romney is the tradition of marriage. i want to speak on to the kind of the tradition of marriage is actually a fundamentally problematic tradition in some really important ways. we have come a long way and we ought to celebrate fundamentally where we have come in marriage. >> and i am, and i look at when you argue as evan does about how we will be treated fairly in the society, and it never gets argued that way. it is always argued that if two people of the same sex want to get married, it somehow destroys somebody else's marriage, and if somebody could answer the question, and maybe you, joe, how two people who live in a state that some married couple is never going to go to who are trying to find happiness is going to destroy the happiness of someone they don't know, then maybe -- >> that is not the point.

>> it is the point. the national organization of marriage says, and joe, joe, let me finish and then i will let you go. the national organization of marriage has based the entire campaign and i have been on shows where they say it is destroying and they use the word normal. >> the so-called defense of marriage act, and that marriage needs defending from the people who want to participate. >> and this is the whole point that marriage has changed over time. when people invoked this and for thousands of years of traditional marriage and i would like to remind people that for thaw thousands of years they were arrangeded and not unions of two consenting adults, but economic arrangements of two families often without the consent of marriage. >> and women were treated as chattel. >> that is right. >> and this is a country where it was impossible to rape the wife, because we lived under a law of coventure that a woman's body belonged to the husband and

we said, whoa, and changed the laws. >> as a young attorney, i ended in that back in the "hair" days, and it was not ancient. this is the change that we had to change the function of it and it is a union of people who are indebted to one another and care for one another in a union that is recognized by the state and the churches are up to them. >> well, this is a conflict -- >> we will have more on this and take you live to the liberty university and to the late jerry falwell hub where mitt romney will be speaking. it is all coming up. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more

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joy-ann reid and jonathan capehart and lizz winstead. let me start with the politics of this. this is a gallup poll that 61% of americans overall approve of the president's base for same-sex marriage, and 53%, and so majorities of both of them approving of the position of the president. and then even with this graphic we have tony perkins, the head of the research counsel saying that mitt romney needs to take what the president gave him wednesday and i think that it could be the key to the white house. it does not need to be the hood ornament of the campaign, but the vehicle that he needs to talk about it. am i missing something? is the gop purposely trying to make themselves irrelevant? >> well, tony perkins gave the same advice to rick santorum. >> but rick santorum could have taken it and run more with it than mitt romney.

herein lies one of the reasons that mitt romney is an awkward choice for republicans. right. >> awkward. >> awkward, and the three-legged stool of the republican party consists of the wall street conservatives and the economic fiscal conservatives who want to cut the spending and the religious right who is powerful with the party at various periods. this is a period when they are not at the forefront and the economic conservatives have taken the ball with the tea party, and this is their opportunity to resurge, but they don't have a guy on the ticket that is their guy. rick santorum would have been their guy. i don't know if romney knows how to articulate what the religious right feels the way that a rick santorum could have, but they would like him to. >> and mitt romney as we saw in the reaction to what happened this week doesn't want to talk about this. when he is asked about it, he is either uncomfortable or shouting down reporters saying that the two words that he wants everyone to focus on, the economy, the economy, the economy. >> it is almost sad, isn't it?

like the discomfort with this is very clear. >> and his discomfort with it, because it is bigger than a republican or democrat issue, and i know lots of democrats in my family and my siblings and my mother who like the president and who have supported him in the past, who tell me, like lots of other democrats they are conflicted on the issue, and they are not republicans and hard core right wing conservatives, but conflicted in the issue, because they go to church and believe in god and they are not homophobic or bigots. and they have people who they love and friends who happen to be gay, but for them it is an issue of this is what the bible says and what the president says. >> okay. i don't want to go too far into the bible things but i want to point out to the extent that we have in this country denied people the right to marry, it has always been about bigotry. i mean the very fact that what we saw the congress do in response to the president, and so that the president makes a statement, right. and just makes a statement in support of inherent equal civil rights and the congress goes

into session and decides to tell military bases and not just churches, but that on military base bases, you are not going to have same-sex marriages performed or anything that looks like a marriage ceremony and looks like a marriage ceremony to me sounds like jumping the broom and sounds 100% like the other groups of people that we have kept from being able to marry in this country, and it was people that we wanted to keep subordinat subordinated. >> and they voted for a measure that said that chaplains who want to perform those ceremonies supporting the country should not have them, and people who believe in religion is important, and we all do, where is the freedom of religion there? where is it for the government to say that marriage ceremonies c cannot be performed on military bases? >> and mitt romney is not engaging in the conversation, because he is not -- this is not at the core of what his campaign is about. the campaign is about the

economy. >> and right, his record, his record -- >> very mixed. >> and his own language is that i will be to the left of ted kennedy on -- >> at a certain point. >> but this is part of the whole flip-flop narrative that there was a moment in mitt romney's political past where this was not the position. >> he is running away from the political past and trying to be a different mitt romney, and it is a problem. the problem for him is that he is not a natural social conservative and not politically and trying to wade into it, and saying the words, but the base does not believe he means the words. this is the point where mitt romney can republicans, and they love him. he is the cnbc candidate and he can get them, but the tea party and the religious right have not shown passion to him because he has not shown passion to him. and he could if he

-- articulate this with the e tony perkins in the world. >> he needs the independents who are not in the republican side. >> and 57% of them are -- >> and i don't believe that this issue drives the election, and this is not the issue that determines. >> well, it could drive a wedge between. >> and that is why listening to someone like tony perkins is the wrong thing to do. of course tony perkins is going to say that this is the issue to get mitt romney into the white house because this is all that tony perkins focuses on. >> when we come back, i want a short segment to talk about the fact that marriage equality is one part of a much larger set of issues about the lez sbians and gays, because if it is about the economy stupid, then we are in a circumstance with gays and lesbians and transjegendered individuals are not going to get

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i would not say i'm into it, but let's see where this goes. [ buzzer ] do you like to travel? i'm all about "free travel," babe. that's what i do. [ buzzer ] balance transfers -- you up for that? well... too soon? [ female announcer ] fortunately, there's an easier way with creditcards.com. compare hundreds of cards from every major bank, and find the one that's right for you. creditcards.com. it's simple. search, compare, and apply. creditcards.com. it's simple. it's showtime for savings. excuse me, sir, how much are you charging for your popcorn? $4.00. $4.00. i'm just going to let the people have a choice. $1.00 for popcorn. come and get it. guess we'll make it two. you got it. progressive showed me my options, i'm showing you yours. $1.00, fresh popcorn. enjoy the show. you should have an option, just like with car insurance. that is a really great price.

still here, evan wilson and joe watkins and jonathan capehart and joy-ann reid and lizz winstead, and i do believe it becomes the item for gay and lesbian and transgendered folks. but i want to point out that the economic and the social and them family issues that the president has been extremely good on the policy issues up to this moment, and that this is in certain ways a capstone. so talk to me about the broader agenda. >> well, look, gay people want what all people want. we want it all. we want to be able to protect our families and hold a job. we want our schools to be safe. we want our seniors to have support. i mean, people should not have to choose between which slice of their life matters especially when the one that is pushing the discrimination is the government. the reason that the marriage

discussion is so powerful and so central is not because marriage is the only thing that matters, but it is because of the vocabulary of con e ne-- connectiveness and love of people and family and because the president and the vice president showed so powerfully rethink their understanding of who gay people are. it is a vocabulary of connectiveness itself that enables people to then understand that it is wrong to fire these people from a job and wrong to take people serving in the country. >> wrong, but legal. in the majority of the american states, people can still lose their job, be discriminated against in housing solely as a result of the identity and being gay or lesbian. >> right. and when we talk about this network and all over the place of incumbent equality, and think about it, because same sex couples are not able to get married at the federal level and you mentioned the 1,138 rights and privileges they are not able to take advantage of and those are tax credits, tack benefits that allow -- >> and health care. >> and social security. >> and right.

>> and when you stack up two families, a heterosexual married family and same sex couple both with children, the same-sex couple over 18 years with a study of the center for american progress is literally a gay tax. >> yes. >> speaking of money, this is awfully good for president obama. so it does feel like it was a real and legitimate evolution, but it also was a matter of politics in the campaign year not a bad day. he went to george clooney's house and had his big fund-raiser that if you are on that list you got 439 text messages about. >> and you can go to be with the rich friends and still not be seen ostracized and the republican is seen as out of touch. >> no, everybody has to raise money for the campaign, democrats and republicans. >> and you have to raise money,

but it would be nice if republicans were treated the same. >> well, republicans hang with the hedge fund people and wall street, and everybody loves george clooney. and frankly that event and subsequent events that are fundraisers with hollywood and liberal donors are going to be less awkward now, because one of the issues that the president has faced when he would show up to the events and the q and the a and say, excuse me, why aren't you for gay marriage and he would have awkward exchanges and then of course 15% of the donor base are gay and lesbians, so he has helped himself politically. >> and edward, you were about to have one of the awkward exchanges with the president, and tell me how you thought it would go and come out? >> well, monday, both president obama and i will be earning the barnard distinguished degree. i was deeply honored to be awarded that by this prestigious

women's college and to speak, and president obama managed to get himself an invitation, as well and my stock soared, but the encounter was going to be challenging one, because of course i wanted to thank the president for all he has done historic magnitude in support of ending discrimination and for the country generally, but at the same time tended to press him to finish the journey and join the majority for marriage and now i just get to say thank you. >> and thank you to evan wilson. it is going to be great for you to be at the commencement address, and we will talk more about commencement addresses later, because there is one going on in virginia. in campaign season, there is a lot of cheesy campaign songs and we want to lighten it up and play some of the hits, and we are going to play "name that tune" a pop quiz right here on set. stay tuned. ♪ it seems to me i have heard that song before ♪ [ donovan ] i hit a wall. and i thought "i can't do this, it's just too hard." then there was a moment.

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jordan ♪ ♪ >> yes, that happened. that was the theme song of socialist candidate francois hollande who won the french election this past sunday and i hate that you are watching that incredible video only because -- what was happening on the set was amazing, because reverend joe watkins is having a good time. >> he was working it out. >> he was working it out and the jay-z and kayne west is a far cry from anything that you would see or hear from american politics. take that moment and compare it to this little ditty, an early campaign theme song that we dug up. ♪ you like ike ♪ i like ike ♪ everybody likes ike for president ♪ ♪ hang the banners and beat the

drum ♪ ♪ ike for washington >> and we have "i like ike" and francois hollande with kayne and jay-z. >> i was at the salon and the music was awful and all of the horrible music and i said, what is this? they said it is the carla bruni pandora channel, and it was like, carla bruni and i know she is a horrible singer, but that is why sarkozy lost, because of the carla bruni and if i could give anybody information today that is even you will enjoy, joe, do not listen to the carla bruni pandora channel unless you want a weird mix of bad country and music of women singing and whining. >> you are turning. that is lizz winstead who is joined at our table with joe watkins who was dancing with jay-z and kayne west, and the

grio's joy-ann reid and jonathan capehart, and so everybody has a buzzer dinger, so i'm going to tell you a little bit about the song, and then your job is to guess what it is. >> it is like "jeopardy." kind of like? >> kind of like. okay. kind of like. although you don't have to phrase the question. and the first song was used in the very brief 2008 presidential campaign of former iowa culture and congressman tom vilsack, but which democratic nominee had used this song? let's listen. ♪ >> joe knows. >> bill clinton. >> very close. right on the edge of being close. it wasn't bill clinton, it was -- >> al ger. >> yes, indeed. al gore. man. his 2000 campaign and the song was "let the day begin." by the 1980s band the call.

i called it. i thought you would do great on this. the next song. was actually used by a candidate whose parents are immigrants, but let's listen to the song. ♪ on the boats and on the planes ♪ >> yes? >> michael dukakis. >> yes, you got it. michael dukakis' 1980 campaign. >> that is why i was so bummed out by dukakis, because that make makes me want to cringe. what he does today! michael dukakis, you are lucky, you are getting my vote. >> and some candidates, you have to present are not happening. and this is one i love by and on again and off again presidential candidate who went with a surprisingly -- [ ding ] -- okay, you have not listened to the music, and a mellow tune and one that was said to be descriptive of the candidate. let's listen for a moment.

♪ crazy >> yes, one word. and joy-ann reid catches that descriptor for ross perot. all right. this hit song was used be i the campaign until the artist said stop. >> there you go. ronald reagan. ♪ i won't back down ♪ oh i won't back down >> michele bachmann. oh, no, she did the other tom petty one. >> you got the artist right. it is "i won't back down." which candidate it is. >> george bush. >> oh. >> and for the bonus point. which george bush? h. >> w. >> yes. >> you have an advantage. >> okay. this one. this is the last one, and it is a crooner. and he used this song, and you have to listen to it, because then the words change, but listen to the original words for

a second. ♪ he's got high hopes >> 1960s john kennedy campaign. that is frank sinatra. >> yes. that is the kennedy campaign, but listen to how the words were changed specifically for kennedy. ♪ back everybody wants to back jack and jack is on the right ♪ ♪ because he has high hopes ♪ he's got high hopes >> joe watkins, you have redeemed yourself at the nerdland table. you are the king of campaign songs. >> i would like a bell and use it to like bypass that bible thing, where is that leviticus. okay. romans 4. okay. >> and now, if you had a bonus song for each one of the presidential candidates in this year's race, and say they didn't have to be narrowed, and they

could be like the french, what would be the song? >> for mitt romney, kayne west "stronger." and for president obama, i'd say madonna's "vogue." >> wau, wau, wau. >> i love that, joe. i'm confused. >> well, he is cool, and, you don't think so? madonna is a great artist. >> i think that all of us would call him up and go, never again. not that. >> anybody else got obama or mitt romney? >> well, obama is cool and i would have gone with "moves like jagger" because he finesse d th whole gay marriage campaign, and he has moves like jagger and for mitt romney "i want to break free" by queen, because the irony of having freddy mesie me standing in for mitt romney is too rich. >> i love that. kayne for romney. >> i would give for romney "papa

don't preach" by madonna. >> at love omadonna here. >> and for president obama, the you rhythmics "sweet dreams are made of this." >> for romney, jackson browne's "running on empty." >> and one for the president? >> i didn't have one, and you covered it and i was trying to think, but i think that we could retire u2, because i think that we use a lot of u2. >> jackson five "i want you back." >> that passed your lips. and you are now the emissary. >> and you are the undisputed emperor of campaigns. i will wash your back. that is awesome. >> coming up the king of pop. and i want to bring the caffeine level down a little bit. we will go live to the liberty university where mitt romney is

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you are looking at a live picture of governor mitt romney on stage at liberty university giving the commencement address. he started a moment ago. liberty of course was founded by the late reverend jerry falwell, sr., and this is an opportunity for governor romney to do major outreach to the evangelicals of the party that is going to be so crucial come november. >> the chicken sandwiches were a comfort food to the primary season and heaven knows there were days that we needed a lot of comfort. so true, thank you and congratulations on the well deserved honp for the -- honor today. [ applause ] of course, there are some people here who are even more pleased than the graduates.

that would be their parents. their years of prayers and devotion and investment have added up to the joyful achievement, and with credit to congressman dick army, the american dream is not owning your own home, it is getting the kids out of the home you own. [ applause ] lately, i have found myself thinking about life in four-year stretches. and let's just say that not everybody has achieved in the last four years as you have. but that is a theme for another day. but two observations. first even though job opportunities are scarce in this economy, it is not for nothing that you have spent this time preparing. jerry falwell sr. long determined that you don't determine a man's greatness by

the talent or the wealth as the world does, but rather what it takes to discourage him. america needs your talent and skill. if we take the right course, i am convinced that we are going to see a resurgence in the american e kconomy that will surprise the world and that will open up new doors of opportunity for those who are as prepared as you are. of course -- that is mitt romney at liberty university at the commencement address and still getting warmed up. but coming up the day that moderation died. why some of the favorite lawmakers are going extinct. former senator arlen specter joins us next. a party?

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in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. refreshing nutrition in charge! in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. every communications provider is different but centurylink is committed to being a different kind of communications company. ♪ we link people and fortune 500 companies nationwide and around the world. and we will continue to free you to do more and focus on what matters. welcome back. we just heard a little bit from mitt romney who is in virginia today delivering the commencement address at the late televangelist jerry falwell's university. and the mormon is going to need the support of the social and the conservatives in the crowd.

romney is leading with white evangelicals and a recent poll shows him pulling ahead of president obama with a hefty margin of 68% to 19%. and this week president obama's endorsement of same-sex marriage only cement ed the evangelical' support of him. but while he goes away from the middle, i worry about the reaction of his decision to support same-sex marriage will add to a polarized political environment. increasingly, washington is no place for moderation and that means no place for governing and on the hill putting a w on the board, and that means win and not george w. bush for the team is all that matters. consider these words of wisdom from indiana state treasurer richard murdoch who championed dick lugar at the indiana senate primary tuesday. >> i certainly think that bipartisanship ought to consist of the democrats coming to the

republican point of view. we entered this campaign wanting to be a voice and hoping to give more of a national voice to the idea that republicans and more specifically conservatives would be in the majority of the house of the senate, and a republican in the white house. by that partisanship means they have to come our way. >> you cannot get any clearer than that. and to be honest, most of us only want moderates on the other side of the aisle. on our side we want fighters and pushovers on the other side, but in a diverse democracy governing requires compromise as senator lugar said in the concession speech this week. partisan groups have worked to make it as difficult as possible for a legislator of either party to hold independent views and to continue to compromise, and if that continues, we will have see a our government will remain mired

in dysfunction. and joining us is jis joe watki and lizz winstead, and joy-ann reid, msnbc contributor and managing editor for thegrio.com, and jonathan capehart. is civility dead? >> yes. when i first started to work in the u.s. senate and as many years ago as i did, i had good close friendships with the democrats and i knew lots of folks who were friendly on both sides of the political aisle, but i don't know if it is that way anymore. it has gotten pretty harsh. >> civility is dead, but moderation is dying. on capitol hill. we saw it after the 2010 midterm elections with 87 new freshmen and a lot of them tea party members who were elected to go to washinon to shape things up, and to blow things up and not compromise. there are people who are there

who were elected because they said they would not compromise with the president or the democrats, and unfortunately the only way that you can govern a diverse democracy is if you give a little to get a little and the people who are being elected and elected in the last cycle and we will see if the same people get elected in this cycle, but the only way that the country will be governed with the problems coming down the road after the e lek shun is done is if people compromise and the way that things are going right now, it is not going to happen. >> and at the same time though, melissa, you made a good point, we always like the other side to have the moderates, because the liberals were not pleased with the existence of people like ben nelson and evan bayh, and also in 2010 a purging of the democratic moderates and without those people in the middle -- >> and outcrying critique of president obama. >> and being for health care reform. and that is an example that is not perfect by any means, but

what you get in washington when people compromise, and neither side really likes it, but we have had a redefinition of moderate. dick lugar is not a moderate. he is a conservative. >> and yes! >> and when we yearn for dick lugar and ronald reagan. >> and bob bennett. >> yes. rig right. >> and then to your point, when we talk about the moderates and the democratic party and the ben nelsons and the biggest problem of the moderates and the liberals is that you were voting against the democratic bills for the most of the times, but what i don't understand in the metascope of things, what kind of life allows you to run for political office saying i will not compromise. is compromise removed from your life somehow? because it is impossible to live in a world if you are a husband or sister or employed or elected to the member as a congressm mm

or to the u.s. senate, and if your can life has been reduced to that, it is a problem. >> you have to compromise and that is part of the political process, but the challenge is the tone of the conversation which is reaching an all-time high for meanness and tone deafness on both sides of the aisle with regards to the other. >> and if we had a historian at the table, and every time we say that and a contemporary pundit says it is the worst it has ever been and they bring up some 1892, you know, thing, and they say, no, actually much worse and you had folks claiming that the other candidate was dead, and i want to, and it seems to me that on one hand there is this let's all be nice to each other, and i believe that i suppose that i worry that the let's all be nice to each other and i actually mean governing. we have had mccain/feingold, and lugar/kerry and graham/lieberman and you could call them the butch cassidy and the sun dance

kids or the bonnie and clyde, and t buddies who got things done. and i want to listen to kerry on lugar. he had something to say about this guy who had been his kind of moderation buddy. >> he refused to allow this march to unorthodoxy without ideology to get in the way of what is the responsibility of the senator an indeed the need of the country to have people come together and find the commonground. >> speaking of senators thrown out in part around this moderation question, let's bring in former pennsylvania senator arlen specter who represented his years for 30 years in the senate, first as a republican and then later as a democrat, and the and the author of "life among the cannibals." and that sort of title tells you

about what is in the book. yu went through this yourself, and you were known as a contrarian, but your decision to break with your party and vote for the president's stimulus package cost you your seat. are you the exception to this, or are you the rule? >> no. that is what is happening in washington today, melissa. that is why charles robins and i wrote this book "life among the cannibals" because what is happening and happened again in the last few days when senator dick lugar was cannibalized. cannibals are devouring senators. if you don't follow orthodoxy, vote the party line right down the line, if you have a 93% c conservative voting record like bob bennett in utah, that is is not conservative enough. and the cannibals function to cost the republicans the senate seat in colorado and delaware

and nevada almost in alaska, and now orrin hatch is in jeopardy in utah. i hope that people in utah, and i know you have a big listening audience, viewing audience there, melissa, will read this book and come out and vote to make sure that orrin hatch is not cannibalized. >> i want to ask you this. is this cannibalizing happening on both sides or really just about the tea party or happening on the right? it doesn't feel like the left has been as effective in actually taking down moderates within the democratic party, the blue dog democrats for example? >> well, the cannibalizing goes on in both parties. an able senator like joe lieberman could not win a democratic primary in connecticut. and lieberman is now leaving the senate, because he is a person without a party. i had the unique experience, melissa, to be inside both the democratic and the republican

caucuses, senate caucuses, in recent times and i can tell you that the extremism is present on both sides. the answer, melissa, is what happened to senator lisa murkowski in alaska. she was cannibalized. the tea party beat her in the primary. she then came back and won on a write-in, and virtually unprecedented in american political history, and can you imagine winning a write-in with a name like murkowski? [ laughter ] >> that is a great point. >> but when we look at the two big movements that have emergeded since 2010, the tea party on the right and occupy on the left, and the fact is that it is tea party folks who -- so i hear the point about lieberman and despite the fact that he ran for vice president on the democratic ticket, there is some question of how moderate or how much of a democrat he was, but, i do worry about this question that we say, oh, it is happening

on both sides, when it does really feel like far more a pull to the right, and we have murdouck saying this week, it means more democrats coming to our side of the aisle. >> well, it is happening more often with the republicans, because think are better organized with the tea party. but the extremism has gripped both sides. this book i can't recommend too much. >> senator, i want joy-ann reid to jump in here. >> the one example of the democratic party was blanche lincoln who was wash ed out in the similar sense that the liberals didn't think she was liberal enough. >> blue dog. >> and then the democrats lost the seat, because the energy this state that she was running was still on the right. the reason that the right feels they are more of the ones doing this is that you have had conservative to water it down and compassion and try all of

the ways to assert itself, and it has never been successful because the americans tend to resist austerity and cuts to social programs, and to impose this, you have to have doctrineaire people to go with the majority view and stick to the party line and impose a minority view on the country, and so the john birch society tried to take the party in the '50s and they failed, but they have it now, and the only way to impo import a minority view is doctrine their people who are willing to go along. >> and joy ann, that is an extremely helpful way to talk about this, and we will talk about where have all of the moderates gone right after this, and why north carolina felt lik week. and i'm not talking about john edwards. ♪ where have all of the cowboys gone ♪ [ male announcer ] research suggests the health of our cells plays a key role throughout our entire lives. ♪

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let me take you to white house where at this moment president obama and vice president joe biden are honoring police officers from around the country. this is the first time we are seeing the president and the vice president together since mr. biden voiced his support of same-sex marriage on "meet the press" sunday. okay. i wanted to show them together and i hoped that they would hug or embrace, no, nothing. okay. back to the conversation and in part because here are the vice president and the president both having come out in the course of the week in a strong way rhetorically for same-sex marriage, and at the same time right at this moment mitt romney is speaking is at liberty university which we are going to take a gamble is not supportive of same-sex marriage, and we are trying to figure out where is the middle where people can govern in american politics.

senator specter, i want to come back to you for a moment and see if you think that part of what is going on in politics is driven be i what is happening in the media? if part of what is going on cursively as reverend watkins said, it is our nature to beat each other up in blogosphere or cable news or is this driven by the politicians, themselves? >> media has a very important effect, melissa. you have radio, and talk tv really taking sides. and having a profound effect of whipping up the extremists who are the ones who are watching msnbc and fox and listening to rush limbaugh -- >> hey, hey, hey. senator specter. we are not whipping up extremists on msnbc. >> well, you may not think that

you are, but i think that you advertise that you are leaning forward which is another way of saying that you are leaning left. i'm not objecting to that. but i call them as i see them. and i think that whips people up, and that is why in the pennsylvania primary couple of weeks ago only 20% of the people voted. when i ran in a primary in pennsylvania two years ago, a very small turnout. had there been a more representative turn out,outurno that it would have been different. >> i opened up on the question with media, but leaning forward does not necessarily mean leaning left and i go back in part to joanne's point earlier that we are talking about a majority of the americans for example with support for a social safety net, and only a minority against that and sort of an order to govern in that way, and i do hear you say that

journalism and point of view television is a different in that way, but is there a model that we can use to stand very strong on our own positions and ideas and also make space for the realities of governing, and what the does that look like to the folks at the table here? >> well, not on fundamental issues. not that on one hand both sides do it. take social security. and no democrat whoever wants to be re-elected would compromise on getting rid of social security, and would ever compromise on making medicare a voucher program for instance. there are some things that the base wants you to stand strong on, and principally you think that you would if you are in the party, but the only spaces for compromise are around altering the programs. there has to be a basic societal agreement, certain things to do, take care of the poor and the elderly, but that is a position of me as somebody that you would put me in the liberal position, but conservatives don't believe that. >> most people who run for political office and get elected are hopefully there are there

because they are hoping to do what is right for everybody whether it is popular or expedient, and then the other side becomes how you explain it, and the discourses become so mean between us that the reason that president obama's 2004 convention speech resonated with so many americans is because it was a home run. he was saying -- >> so inclusive. >> and he said we are not red states and blue states, but the united states of america. and what we have not seen him yet is to bring us together and end the polarization. >> and the discourse and the thing is that the president cannot end -- and that is the point that it is not just one side, but the president, himself, cannot end polarization, or you will get the murdoch problem of the president coming to do what the republicans want, but even then, and even to the extent that the president's health care reform bill that passed the congress and the senate was something that was basically proposed by republicans two decades ago and it is now being called

socialism. it does feel like meanness, but like an act of misrepresentation of the realities of the policy. >> and not misrepresentation, but i keep coming back to the fact that you have now people on capitol hill who are there either resistant to facts or come to the table with their own facts. i remember something that chuck todd said in the height of the debt ceiling debate. he said he was talking to a long-time hill staffer who said in the old days freshmen would come in and the leadership would sit them down and tell them, this is how things work, and this is why this is important, and here are what the facts are, and you know, go ahead and vote, but this is how we want you to vote. with the debt ceiling fight you had all of the people coming in who had access to their own sources of information and the democra democracytation of facts, and

saying that without this, the full faith and credit of the united states will happen, and all of these things will happen. no, freshmen saying that to the speaker of the house. and so that is a civility problem and respect problem, but it is also people feeling as though because they were elected and access to their own facts that they are able to do whatever is that they want regardless of what it means for the overall country. >> and i like joy ann's point that there are some things to agree that we should do as a family. i want to play something that mitt romney just said at liberty university about same-sex marriage that got a lot of applause. i want to play that. >> now as fundamental as the principles are, they may become topics of democratic debate from time to time, so it is today with the enduring institution of marriage. marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman. [ applause ] >> so, again, that is factually

empirically not quite right. there is not one enduring relationship of marriage, and marriage has changed in different societies across time and -- >> in romney's own family. >> and fact is that there are plural marriages, and it has not always been one man and one woman in time and for memorial, and if we are in a place where we are voting for people's civil rights on ballots in the states, i mean, is there some place, and arlen specter, i will give you the last word on this, and is there one word that you can say to help to bring us to a place where we are prepared to compromise for the good of the general public. >> the issue of words that you were searching for is how to compromise, and it is what is in the budget process today. you have a battle between cuts and defense and cuts in social programs.

and the way to work it out is to make out a long list and decide what is most important on both sides and then find the accommodation where nobody gets everything they want, but there is an approach that each of the issues is recognized and accommoda accommodated to the extent within the overall amount of money that you can spend. if you are talking about the same-sex marriage, that is a matter of principle. you are talking about school prayer, that is a matter of principle. but most of what the congress does, and i saw it in 30 years is to try to figure out how to divide up the money. and that can be worked out if people are willing to talk and to listen to each other. it can't be accomplished if it is the tea party running on a platform of no compromise. >> senator arlen specter, i

appreciate it. there is a fundamental issue of governing trying to figure out how to spend the money. thank you for bringing us back to that. for the first time doctors are recommending to give healthy people a drug to prevent hiv, and it is a potential breakthrough in the battle against aids. i want to have a quick conversation about it when we come back. love kiwis. i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free -- it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free. with just a few dabs, it's clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. super poligrip free made the kiwi an enjoyable experience. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip.

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the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. this morning i want to talk about a potential medical breakthrough. on thursday for the first time in the 31-year battle against hiv aids in the u.s., a food and drug advisory panel recommended approval for people who are considered high risk to prevent them from getting an hiv infection. the drug called tr ed truvata i hopefully going to lead to the decrease of the rate of new hiv infections. they hope that the preventative use will backfire, because they belief that people may prevent to take the once a day pill or think that condoms are no longer

needed and to sort it out is dr. roy gulick who is chief of the infectious diseases at the university of cornell university hospital. so, claire it fthank you for be and clarify it for me. what is it that i just read? >> every year in the country, 50,000 americans have been newly infected with hiv. that is a stunning statistic and not only is it true, but it has not changed in the last 20 years, so every year for the last two decades 50,000 more americans are hiv infected. >> the numbers have not gone down? >> no. it is surprising. we are doing better to treat people with hiv, but clearly better with prevention. so what we have heard is in addition to what we have always done, abc, abstinence, be faithful and condoms is working for many people, but now we have a new tool, and that is what the excitement is about. >> and even with the numbers the

populations have changed, right? as a high-risk population is different and what does that look like in terms of how this drug might be used or recommended by the fda? >> well, the communities disproportionately affected are people of color, african-americans and latinos. if you look at the people who are infected, the one population going up is gay men, and it is mostly young gay men and men of color. >> and it is the members born after the initial gay crisis of the 1980s that gripped if nation. >> yes, dunner if age of 30 is the group that is most at risk. we need more tools and better tools to helpp people prevent hiv, themselves. >> what does this drug actually do? >> what we are talking about here are two hiv drugs that we used to treat hiv together in one pill. we are talking about giving one pill once a day to somebody who is at risk for hiv. the drugs are on board, and if

they come in contact with hiv in the body, it will prevent hiv from establishing infection. >> what physicians should or physicians will be talking to which potential patients about making this decision, and describing this. it is physicians taking care of people who are at risk of hiv from sexual exposure and we have to reinforce abstain, and be faithful and condom use. >> and this is not in exchange of this? >> no, it is an add of on. we know that hiv aids infections are improved 1 in 4 of new cases in women, and 2 in 3 for newly infected african-americans and 44% of people were overall reduction of the hiv infection.

>> is there going to be more coming on? >> yes, it will take multiple approaches to go with a vaccine, but until then, use what we have and use what works. >> doctor, appreciate your being here to talk with us about this. coming up next the head of the nation's biggest bank admits that the colleagues were stupid and sloppy, and we will tell you what they did and why the occupy movement might want to listen up after the break. [ male announcer ] when these come together, and these come together, one thing you can depend on is that these will come together. delicious and wholesome. some combinations were just meant to be. tomato soup from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. here at the hutchison household but one dark stormy evening... there were two things i could tell: she needed a good meal and a good family. so we gave her what our other cats love,

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the more you know. there was a lot going on in north carolina this week, a draconian vote against marriage e call ti and salacious trial by a former candidate and visit by a current presidential candidate and a current bankholders meeting in charlotte. that last one does not seem like a big news, but it was, because

shareholders showed up at the headquarters. the occupy movement protested the nation's second largest bank for foreclosure and lending practices as well as the funding of the u.s. coal industry and they will also host the national convention later in the summer. this came a week after the occupy movement relaunched the public presence with may day protests on may 1st known as international workers day. so it is apparent that whether you like it or not, and whether you wanted it or not, you recognize that occupy is here and they are determined to make an impact on the national conversation. now, what are they going to do? joining us to answer that question is lizz winstead, and jonathan capehart and joy-ann reid and evan wolfson and joe wa watkins. >> look, early on, i said there is a link between the anger fueling the tea party movement,

and occupy. and tea party was angry at the government and of reach of the government and the size of the budgets and the deficits and the government spending and occupy is angry at powerful forces on wall street responsible for people losing their homes and losing their jobs and implode ing the economy. what tea party did is that they took the anger that they displayed on the streets of washington, and they then ran for congress, ran for state legislature -- >> and like 15 minutes later. they were like, we are mad, and that is it. >> and we are in power. in congress. and occupy wall street, tell me if i'm wrong, and maybe i missed it, but who are the occupy candidates who are going to be on the ballot in november for congress? for state senate? state representatives? where are those people? >> i think that the part of the occupy would claim, because i am sort of with you and i have been

sort of an occupy hater hash tag which is a problem, because i think that, you know, i think that part of what occupy would say is that part of what they did was to change the conversation and you remember the super committee about the deficits and shifted the language from the deficit hawk discussions over to inequality conversation, and that inequality conversation has been critically important. >> and who is leading the conversation now? >> well, they are generally angry. that is the thing -- >> well, they are at the bank of america meeting. >> well, anger is a legitimate point, joe. >> bd well, there is a way to start a conversation and get it done, and if you look at the tea party movement, and the point that you made so meaningful is that they channeled the anger into something concrete and there is an end to what we want to accomplish. >> you have to remember, joe, that republican members coopted almost immediately and they had organizational assistance from the republican party who saw them as potential for electoral

model. i went down to occupy washington to talk to people, and see for myself and they were organizing politically and they were happy for not purposefully not writing down people's names there and write down ways to connect again, and that is my hater ration toward occupy, they were deciding not to be political and channel what they did. >> not electorally. >> political, but not electoral. >> and they introduced the 99 or mean, and after that, i am not sure what they accomplished. >> and what they are about is debated because nobody here is from occupy which is confusing, but for me, they introduced 99% and talked about the way to disparity and got it into the conversation politically. >> yes, absolutely. >> but what has not happened is that is the part of the dialogue around the kitchen tables constantly and breaking it down. for me who feels they 'm pretty

informed about life, any time we talk about any of this stuff, my head, and you say derivative and my brain goes and glazes and i feel like i'm not smart enough and there is never anybody who has laid out to me, and to the most important part of this is that what are the legal things that the banks are doing that they are not incriminated and if every american knew what was in this tax code that allowed these corporations to behave this way that is perfectly legal people would be outraged, but there has not been an extension of that. >> this is the big news story of the week. bank of america is the second largest of the week, but jpmorgan chase was interviewed this week and not jpmorgan chase obviously, but jamie diamond, was interviewed and we learned that they lost $2 billion. and with a "b" and let's listen to what we will hear on "meet the press." >> a media question that the

s.e.c. is looking into this, and did the bank break any laws? did it violate any accounting rules or s.e.c. rules? >> so we have had audit, legal risk compliance and the best people look over it and all of that. we know we were sloppy and stupid and bad judgment, but we don't know if any of that is true yet. of course, the regulators should look at something like that, that is their job and we are totally open to the regulators and they will come to their own conclusion, but we intend to fix it, learn from it, and be a better company. >> you can see the interview tomorrow on cnbc, but you should really watch melissa harris-perry here on msnbc. and we will replay it, too. >> and that point of did you break any laws, and he says, no, we were sloppy and stupid, and within the laws, but you lost $2 billion. >> individuals in banks make mistakes also and not every mistake is a big one.

>> $2 billion? >> when you consider the amount of capital in play everyday, and to all of us a big number, but maybe not as big of a number as some people may think, but people make mistakes, and not every mistake is a criminal one. >> you think -- >> i'm also a preacher. >> and jamie dimon has been one of the most vocal whiners about dodd/frank bill, and don't blame about the implosion and hate on us, and daring president obama and the democrats to regulate them. >> and this regulation would have saved them $1.5 billion, and coming up how the republican party has been able to make the president look bad in a tux. this is the latest video attacking the president. we will look at that when we come back. take away the pixie dust. take away the singing animals, and the storybook narrator... [ man ] you're left with more electric trucks.

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look i'm going through the rapids. okay... i'll take it. sync your card with facebook, foursquare and twitter for savings. that's the membership effect of american express. if you made a list of countries from around the world... ...with the best math scores. ...the united states would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this. okay. i want you to take a good hard look at the new web video released by the republican national committee and focus on the juxtaposition of images here. take a look. >> sometimes people forget the

magnitude of it. you know, and you saw some of it i think in the video of it. sometimes i forget. so there's the sad underlay of music and also those images of the president in tux see dose or at fancy events during the great american recession, and that is why it is in black and white on the other side, and the republicans have been insistent on making this democrat look all fancy pants and calling him celebrity in chief and what not, but that is not going to cut it. the rnc is now trying to brand president obama with the dreaded out of touch label of a 1% and trying to turn him into the guy, the guy in the middle, their own

candidate, and when the republicans are making this argument, it feels like occupy is in fact dictating the termings of the debate. joining us for a last thought is lizz winstead, and jonathan capehart and joy-ann reid, and joe watkins. maybe is why he is wearing the horrible brown suit. >> and i would like to see him in a tuxedo and tie and that brown suit i thought he burned it in the campaign. brown suit and a yellow tie? come on. >> maybe he is trying to look like the 99%. is that an indication of the dictating that the rnc is trying to single him out as a 1%? >> well sh, the ghost does lie,d it is dangerous to peg it completely on the economy, especially with the republican candidate. >> and it is too soft, a toond

many people unemployed. >> romney said 8% and we are at 8.1%, and at any moment i feel a 7.9% dance coming on. >> well, the republicans don't know what to do, because that whole role playbook of accuse the candidate of what you are thing is so incredibly that you can't do it this time, and they are still trying to anyway and it is embarrassing and pretty soon middle-class people in the sarah mclaughlin msnpc ad saying that americans are in cages, help us, and barack obama put us in cages. help us. they are going to do anything [ laughter ] >> goodness, lizz winstead. that is the best. >> lizz wins. >> and how do you go with that? >> how do you come back to that? >> no, that is the last word, but not the last word of the show. when we come back, we are going to continue to try to come back by talking about a children's

book, and what this children's book can tell us about citizenship. before we do that, we will take a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> i loved that wo ed thad thas of his passing. and we will talk about the big news of the week. and also the president in the last hour honoring heroes who protect and serve everyday. we will hear from him as well. and $2 billion and counting, and could the debacle of the jpmorgan chase affect the markets like the last debacle? and this is looking cool and scary and all i can say is cowabunga, and we will look at that again, because you can't get enough of the dude. >> and i love the dualing commencement speeches, because i love first lady at north

carolina a&t, and that is a site of the civil rights there, and i hope she will talk about the broader civil rights that we still have. >> i will tell you. >> okay. good. up next, i will tell you why the kids need a little fear in their lives. ♪ pop goes the world ♪ it goes something like this ♪ everybody here is a friend of mine ♪ ♪ everybody, tell me, have you heard? ♪ ♪ pop goes the world ♪ pop goes the world [ female announcer ] pop in a whole new kind of clean with new tide pods... a powerful three-in-one detergent that cleans, brightens, and fights stains. pop in. stand out. ♪ you make me happy [ female announcer ] choose the same brand your mom trusted for you. children's tylenol, the #1 brand of pain and fever relief recommended by pediatricians and used by moms decade after decade.

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for this week's foot soldier, nerdland went to the forest. author of "where the wild things are," mhairi sendak, passed away at 83 years old. realizing it wasn't all ponies and fairies, sendak's 1963 book changed the landscape of children's literature forever after. "the new york times" wrote of him and his book as, disguised in fantasy, springs from him earliest self.

"wild things" is a dramatic departure of the optimistic children's stories and sometimes is a dark allegory. it's influenced by his own experience. he struggled with a string of diseases and depression. he overcame his real-life obstacles. and so we meet rambunctious max, frustrated by the constraints of the real world. he dresses up as a wolf. but when he barks at his mother, he gets sent to his room without dinner in his belly. so he allows his imagination to build a forest where there was once just a bedroom, until his ceiling hung with vines and the walls became the world all around. his fantasy becomes more elabora elaborate, the shores of reality further away n and out of weeks and almost over a year to where the wild things are. max is met with the gargantuan

wild beasts who could surely destroy him. max said, be still! sendak was telling us something. whether in fantasy or reality, when met with adversity, take control. and like max, you can become the ruler over the very things you fear. but as sendak write, even a ruler needs love -- and dinner. so despite protests, max leaves the forest and returns home to his mom, real life. back at home, he finds that the dinner he was initially denied is waiting for him. and it's still hot. maurice sendak said, i don't write books for children, i write them for myself and children happen to like them. children's books are the first les than most of us receive in civic education on how to be a part of democracy and about

becoming a fully participating person. he taught us to embrace the things that others tell us to fear and to participate in the wild rumpus of life. for that, he is our foot soldier of the week. and that is our show for today. thank you to our panel for sticking around. thanks to you at home for watching. see you tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. coming up, "weekends with alex witt." [ male announcer ] it's simple physics...

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visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. [ dog ] we found it together.upbeat ] on a walk, walk, walk. love to walk. yeah, we found that wonderful thing. and you smiled. and threw it. and i decided i would never, ever leave it anywhere. because that wonderful, bouncy, roll-around thing... had made you play. and that... had made you smile. [ announcer ] beneful. play. it's good for you. hello, everyone. approaching high noon here in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." here are some of the first five stories trending this hour on the web. liberty speech sparks controversy. a sexy kate middleton steps out. battle the internet stars. jennifer midwehudson verdict reaction. and a surfer conquers one

massive wave. first, we begin this hour with mitt romney's commencement speech at liberty university in lynchberg, virginia. his invitation sparked controversy among evangelicals there. romney did not avoid the issue that had been making headlines all week. >> culture, what you believe, what you value, how you live matters. now, as fundamental as these principles are, they may become topics of democratic debate from time to time. so it is today with the enduring institution of marriage. marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman. >> peter alexander joins me now from lynchberg. peter, we cut off that tape right as they were going to what i presume was some pretty big applause at that line, right?