the senior trader in london. mary thompson joins me now live. let's talk about ina drew. lot of people are going to be familiar with that name because ina one of the most powerful women on wall street. >> she was but reportedly kept a very low profile. she's about a three decade veteran of jpmorganchase and the banks preceded it and of course the combination and product i should say of a couple of acquisitions and actually -- some support that was issued from her from a couple of the former bosses and in the report in the "new york times" today. she ran the chief investment office which was the unit responsible for the trading losses at jpmorgan. trading losses a company still expected to make money in this quarter. and this is the type of, i guess you could say, retirement. she is retiring. that's what the bank said. this is the kind of departure expected and it is likely that more heads will roll, to use that term, at jpmorganchase. they continue to unwind the

trade and get to the root of the problem. you should expect to see a few more people leave the bank. >> there still will be profits this quarter. as they try to handle the situation replace many for drew has already been named? >> that's right. his name is matt zanes. he is a well-known figure inside jpmorganchase. a bit after trading wonder kin. he's also seen as one of the people who is a possible heir to ceo jamie dimon. what he is going to do is he's going to be running the chief investment office basically replacing ms. drew in that position. he will also remain as head of capital markets for the company's mortgage banks. he will have a dual role there. >> mary, nice to see you this morning. the big question, could jpmorganchase's $2 billion loss be a political problem for president obama? as he seeks re-election? we p want to bring in our panel, david goodfriend and hogan gibly, national communications director for rick santorum's campaign. gentlemen, it is good to see you on this monday morning.

i wish we had some more interesting financial news to talk about than $2 billion in losses. no one likes to talk about a financial loss like that. this after the fact that we haven't seen losses like this, david, since the worst financial crisis four years ago. let's talk about the climate on wall street, how it appears it changed very little with president obama in office and how this could potentially come back to hahn him for re-election. what are your thoughts? >> well, my thoughts are actually quite the opposite. this serves as exhibit a as to why stricter regulation of wall street is good for the entire economy, frankly good for the financial sector itself, mitt romney is going to argue that wall street needs less regulation and that the obama administration has overregulated and really hard to make that argument in the face of evidence like this. by the same token the obama administration right now is in the process of putting regulations in place that implement the dodd/frank statute and here, too, exhibit a as to why the volcker rule needs real

teeth. these are not difficult things for voters to understand. ing in fact, they play right into people's preconceived notions about how wall street operates and, in fact, the business community, i come from an operating company when i worked in corporate america, operating companies need banks to operate well. bank that does this does not serve the business community in the united states. all these things play into the narrative of the obama campaign right now. >> hogan, let's look the at it from the other side. they would push important the tougher law that they couldn't get through congress that jpmorgan had these risky bets and may not have happened if the banks were being lobbied like crazy to water down financial reform. do you feel that that is an argument to be made about this? >> you know, i'm not really sure at this point. again, thanks for having me on the show. but, you know, i think that politically, you have to look at this and in -- a -- for the entire cycle. right now not exactly sure what impact makes other than a couple days' story. they lost $2 billion, sure.

they made $4 billion. it is capitalism, we can say. just look at it and go they made money, lost money, win some, lose some, big deal. but i think david is right. the larger construct moving into this election heading closer and closer to november, it is going to be that age-old argument. do we want more regulations? does that help things? does that hurt things? and at this point, it is a little bit unclear where the administration is going to go with it and i'm not exactly too sure. i'm not sold on what david said is the romney argument at this point but this is capitalism. and i don't know necessarily that the government coming in and taking over this -- this private industry would help at all. i think that at this point, again, some people lost money, some people made money. and -- i don't know that this goes too far past they will hire more people, they will let go of some people. unless something illegal happened. if something illegal happened that that's a much different story and becomes much more damaging. it becomes damaging for the president because he came in with this whole auspice of

taking care of all these types of problems and punishing the evil doers and fixing the banking industry. when these things continue to happen it falls on the president and romney can hit him pretty hard on that and be successful doing so. >> hogan, david, i want to ask you to stand by and don't go anywhere. take a look at this. >> this november, we are going to remember. >> how you threw women under the bus just to get the nomination. >> the group moveon.org with the ad attacking mitt romney's stance attacking women's issues released the same day president obama will deliver a commencement address at barnard college, an all women's college, in new york city. president obama is scheduled to arrive in the city any minute and has a jam-packed day on the agenda following the stop at barnard, he will pop into abc's "the view" and wrap the day at an lgbt fund-raiser hosted by ricky martin. the president's evolution on marriage equality isn't expected to be far from the trail on -- or in manhattan. this is the new "usa today"

gallup pop. those the majority of americans view it as morally acceptable. joining me is chuck todd, political director and host of "the daily run-down." s can we expect and should we expect the president to talk more candidly openly with the win of marriage equality at his back today? >> if you talk to aides they claim and it is a little revisionist history, can't disprove this, no evidence out there but that their original intent was for today to be the day that the president made news on gay marriage. that it was this interview with "the view" they set up before any of the events of last week with vice president biden on me sxheep the president hastily doing the interview with robin roberts and had planned on doing it. that said, i think that -- one of the more remarkable developments over the weekend, thomas, was a memo that i got my hands on that's being circulated among republicans and it is a memo written by president george

w. bush's pollster from both the 2000 and 2004 campaign who notes all of the public opinion shifting on the gay marriage issue and recommends this language to those republicans who may be against gay marriage but for some sort of equality. people who believe in equality on the law is a fundamental principle and i this extends to gay and lesbian couples. how to basically mess faj you are a republican and against gay marriage but how to message it so that you come out for equal and civil union and something like that. it is interesting how there is a lot of republican recommendations now to lawmakers on capitol hill to use this kind of language. >> chuck, real quickly. remind everybody in '04 exactly the tone taking place when it came to equality and head of the rnc, mehlman, trying to draft the constitutional amendment, to block marriage equality. isn't this quite a dichotomy they had this kind of research,

the conversation that was being had is completely different? >> it is. it is a reminder that basically public opinion is leading lawmakers here. all right. it moved faster, faster than lawmakers have, whether it is the president now, this president, or these republican strategists who you are right, in 2004, different strategy. they had the ballot initiative, all about trying to turn out among evangelicals in places like ohio, missouri, other states. >> chuck todd. great to see you this morning. thank you, sir. >> you got it. we want to bring back our panel, david, goodfriend. thanks for your patience. the "usa today" gallup poll is showing that among supporters for marriage equality are women voters. voters between the ages of 18 to 34. all-important independent vote. these are groups where both sides are actively courting. do you think that, especially now we are getting this

information from 2004, about what republicans were learning about shifting opinions, about marriage equality, and the lgbt community, do you think republicans are on the losing side of this issue and they need to shore it up quickly and get to where they need to right the boat? >> i don't think so. i think there is a d on the republican side. there are those trying to parse words and trying to say it morrell subsequently ask be very cautious in the way they move forward. there are like rick santorum and tony perkins that came out and said no, this is the issue romney needs to use to gin up his base because he has an number gap and beenwhelm known and this is a chance for him to come out strong and say no, i'm for this, i'm going to push for a national amendment to ban gay marriage. this is chance for them to do that. that's at odds with a lot of folks in the party that want to move towards the polling. suggested, polling suggested it is moving the opposite direction. they want to move more towards that. same thing on the democrat side.

they want to be cautious and worry about courting the middle. i think the democrats also some on the far left would say that no, it is time to stand up and say we want to make sure this is on the national scale and want the president to saw he is going to go in and not just be personally for it. but actually go into states and say this is the way it should be done. there will be a lot of in-fighting for a little bit and will take tomb to actually form those opinions and see how united front comes forward. >> david, judgment in there. >> yes. i want to say i agree with my republican colleague both instances we have seen pressure from the wings, the true believer wings of the party. but i think this is an example of how the right wing true believers are going to drive mitt romney over a cliff and here is why. yes, he's trying to get more enthusiasm from that conservative base but with these polling numbers show is that's going to hurt him with independents and moderates in the middle. by contrast with the democrats, with president obama abiding by his base and coming out so forcefully in favor of gay marriage, he's not doing any damage to himself within the party and the polling shows that

he's actually going to help himself with moderates and women and with the people who have to be -- won the election. i would say net-net. this is a loser for mitt romney and a winner for bark. >> let's look quickly, david, the fund-raiser tonight here in new york city hosted by ricky martin, a look at what's been circulating via e-mail and $5,000 for a couple to attend. $2,500 a head. then $35,000, more than that, to be a chair of this event. there was a "washington post" report that one in six obama are part of the lgbt community. i know you were both listening to chuck todd's reporting of president coming to new york city, tape thing interview with the ladies on "the view" where they think the -- guess is the rollout on marriage equality was going to go there but this got sped up and robin roberts landed the interview last week. so obviously that pushes and drives people potentially, big donors to want to attend today's fund-raiser because they got all this press leading up to this. hogan, i want to ask you, as we look at this, you know, and look

at it for what it is in the way as david is talking about, public opinion changing, how do republicans get ahead of this to look like they are not trying to be exclusion aiary in any way b looking conservative but with understanding? >> the case has been fairly made on our side. look, it is not about hatred or bigotry or any type. it is about marriage being between one man and one woman. we have to have a spokesperson in -- and a leader in a candidate that can come out and articulate that vision and articulate that message. but at the same time, opening the tent and saying we want everyone to come in and it is not just about the social issues. i mean, gays, straight, black, white, it is about do you have a job. i think mitt romney will be good about talking about that in the future. problem is as you alluded to before, governor romney will have to tack to the right to gin up that base and that could pose a problem and n the general. there is no doubt about that. the reason we saw such problems

with his staff shake-ups with the homosexual gentlemen this had to let go over there is because he does not have a staunch record. he didn't have a staunch record of being right. he has to do some things still to try to shore up that base. >> a staunch of record bag great spokesperson in president bush's -- while president bush was in office on foreign policy. >> that's my point. that's may point. had the base shord up. >> you republicans never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. you should own the latino vote. you should have half the african-american vote. you should have half the gay vote. because there are plenty of people from those groups that agree with you on everything and then you spurn them with these exclusive policies. we will take those votes, thank you very much. they are shooting themselves in the foot. we will take them, thank you very much, in the democratic party. >> we have to leave it there. thanks so much. i appreciate your time this morning. i do want to point out coming up

later this hour, how the religious right is reacting to the president's announcement. i will talk to leaders on both sides of that debate. michelle obama said it is one of the most profound things she will do as first lady, digging up dirt at the white house. yahoo's ceo resigns after what he called an error on his resume but apparently that was not the only reason. at bank of america, we're lending an in communities across the country. fro omrevi htalielzeping t a neigbrhbooklyn..or.ho

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this morning, the romney campaign responding to a scathing new ad from the obama campaign. now the ad targets romney's record at the private equity firm bain capital and set to hit the air in five battleground states and tries to paint the republican as a job killing corporate titan. ad features workers at a kansas city steel plant taken over by bain in 1993. they accused romney and partners

of running the plant straight into the ground. >> on national tv and brag about making jobs when he has destroyed thousands of people's careers and lifetimes, just destroyed people. >> he's running for p and if he is going to run a country the way he ran our business i wouldn't want him there. he's so out of touch with the average person in this country. >> bringing in nbc news senior political editor mark murray. it is good to see you this morning. let's get right to it because the romney camp has a response to all of this. it says the obama campaign is going to doing everything they can to distract voters from the fact their policies are not working and president obama can't come close to matching the many years of experience mitt romney has as a private businessman. so he has a chosen to attack it. newt gingrich, rick perry, as we all remember, mark bay, slammed mitt romney during the primary. calling him a vulture capitalist. romney and the campaign, they

are expecting this. how do they turn the narrative around what bain really was in the business of doing because it was been job creation? it was about moneymaking. >> thomas, i'm -- i'm very curious on how the romney campaign responds because you mention newt gingrich, rick perry the pro-gingrich super pac all made a big push on this right after the new hampshire primary. and it really hurt mitt romney. lost that south carolina primary badly. he was also on the defensive and his response back then was, essentially some businesses and enterprises succeed. some don't. that's capitalism. as he heads into this general election fight where -- audience isn't republican voters, it is actually general election voters and swing groups and independents, people really focused on the economy, it be will be interesting to see how mitt romney and his camp respond beyond this particular statement. because this really does go at the heart of mitt romney's biggest strength which is the economy with the obama campaign trying to do is actually dip that strength and turn night a weakness. >> pillar for him.

"wall street journal," though, examines 77 businesses that romney invested in. during his time. they found that 70% of those businesses produced gains, gains, after bain's involvement. of course people will look at that and say that's good. that's not bad. do i want to play what msnbc contributor mark halperin had to say this morning on "morning joe." >> this is not the only way to do capitalism. bain capital chose to do it this way and the business they were in. if you are going to say you are a job creator, you have to take the fatality of the of the record. >> do you think that the obama campaign ad is going to be effective if you think about the way that they are talking about bain and the real story behind what bain was doing? again, it wansz than about making jobs for people. it was about making money for its invest wrors which is not a bad thing. >> thomas, that will be effective if they are automobile to define romney in his work at bain really before romney does. in all the speeches romney gave during the primary season is now the general election starts and

talking to i'm a job creator. this rebuttal from the obama camp in this tv ad that has millions of dollars behind and it key battleground states, what they are trying to do is say that business experience mitt romney was always trying to -- always making money while sometimes people end up losing their jobs. kansas city steel plant. >> mark murray, thank you, sir. you can read more analysis on romney's record at bain capital from the first read team on firstread.msnbc.com. thanks again. we will be right back. [ male announcer ] considering all your mouth goes through,

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that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. welcome back, everybody. a documentary exploring the war on obesitobesity. "weight of the nation." it examines what doctors call a national health crisis especially among our nation's youth. the battle against child obesity is a cause close to the heart of first lady michelle obama. she's the focus of a new cover story in the latest edition of

"parents" magazine and it is ipad friendly for you. >> hi. i'm first lady michelle obama. i would like to invite the readers of "parents" magazine to join me in making small but very important changes to help us live a healthier life. >> dana, good to have you here. ipad friendly. right? >> to point out to everybody. >> yes. >> so you conducted this one on one interview with the first lady several weeks ago. let's talk about not only did you discuss her leadership style but why she feels so passionate about wanting to take on this mantle of addressing what is a national crisis for so many people, childhood obesity? >> i think the obamas have -- been a lot of instances where they said that something is personal and it is also sort of national. and this is the case. you know, i think her awareness as they told white house we first interviewed them four years ago of weight and childhood obesity was first something that started in the family and then sort of spread from there. you don't have to look far.

the institute of medicine released a report last week showing what a huge crisis we have on our hands. >> the book that she has coming up, "american grown." it takes on these topics. a lot of families, they are kind of taboo because no one wants to think that the kids are eating too much sugar or they are getting too much junk food or the fact that busy moms and dads may not have time to go get everything organically grown and fresh and sometimes they do lunch at mcdonald's. >> the first lady acknowledged that. and what she said to me is really she just wants to give people the information that they need to make the kind of decisions she has had to make in her own family. they have -- changed their diet, you know. she's very open in the book about how white house chefs have sort of expanded their cooking knowledge and their knowledge of healthy eating and shared that with families all through washington. and it is something that's happening across the country right now. people are waking up to this. >> quickly before we let you go. has she been able to let the criticism of this type of agenda

wash over her and not take it to heart? some people have said hey, it is none of your business what's on my plate. >> i think so. she was very clear this was not about telling people what to do but about giving them information, knowledge and they could make their own decision. >> "parents" magazine. thank you. really appreciate it. also, you can check out dana's article in the white house kitchen with the first mom in the latest issue of "parents" magazine. "newsweek" declares president obama the first gay president. look at their cover. it sure has people talking. "newsweek" talks with us next. breaking news. the board of trusties at florida a&m makes a huge december identification the fate of its marching band. [ female announcer ] with swiffer wetjet, cleaning better, doesn't have to take longer. i'm done. i'm going to... drink this... on the porch! ♪ give me just a little more time ♪ [ female announcer ] mops can be a hassle, but swiffer wetjet's spray cleaner and absorbent pads can clean better in half the time so you don't miss a thing.

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mark, it is good to see you this morning. the cover story's title says the president shifted the mainstream in just one interview. it was written by andrew sullivan. sullivan is openly gay. in it sullivan talks about the political calculation involved in the president's announcement on all of this. still he said personally, it was -- psychologically transformative moment. even given the strategy behind this why was the president raes endorsement of marriage equality so powerful? >> good morning. thanks for having me. i think what andrew says, and i think this is correct, when you actually have the president of the united states come out and support something like this, make that personal statement, as andrew wrote, it has the power to shift the conversation and i think it was -- clearly for andrew, particular very powerful moment since he has been working on this issue and writing about it and one of the chief

intellectual authors of same-sex marriage equality as a conservative idea. very -- just a very powerful moment for him. >> this piece also delves into joe biden's role and all of this saying the president had planned a more strategic rollout and chuck todd was reporting earlier this morning that it might have been today with the interview, ladies of "the view" this would have gotten the scoop about a president fully evolved on his stance for marriage equality. so why do you think, though, that -- they decided to jump the gun? was the pressure just that much that they felt they needed to get the president out there within 72 hours of vice president biden's appearance on "meet the press" to have to deal with this head-on? >> right. don't forget, there was also the education secretary's remarks about it. clearly didn't want several more days of being asked what is the president's view, where is it evolving to, is it becoming a point of ridicule and weakness

on potentially for the administration. i think they just felt like they had to go ahead and move quickly to put out his view. >> mark, real quickly, guys, can we show the cover again of "newsweek" with the rainbow colored halo? who came up with that idea? >> well, of course tina brown. as is always the case with our best covers. our most interesting ones. you know, it is an illusion to maya angelou's proclamation bill clinton was the first black president and since we were -- paying homage to that. >> mark miller of "newsweek" and "the daily beast." thank you. appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> absolutely. if you are keeping count, we are into the fourth week of testimony of the john edwards criminal trial. today, house defense attorneys call their first witnesses. the formerresidential candidate's team looking to explain how money used to hide his then pregnant mistress was not technically a campaign contribution and the big question today, will either edwards or rielle hunter take

the stand? our legal eagle at the court is steven friedland. he joins us live from greensboro. explain what the defense is going to come out strong for today in trying to prove as they hit the ground running? >> reporter: this is a completely different case than what we saw with the prosecution. the defense is emphasizing that these were not campaign contributions. their first witness was the chief financial officer for the edwards campaign. the fireworks, the sordid details are gone. >> the prosecution did not call rielle hunter. what are the odds the defense will? >> reporter: i think the odds are getting longer as we go through this case. she's unpredictable. the focus is for the defense on the legal question about campaign contributions. rielle hunter brings this case right back into the affair and the pregnancy. that's not where the defense wants to go. >> all right. also, john edwards, brilliant

trial attorney in his own right, but is there a possibility that he could take the stand in his own defense and is that a good idea or bad idea? >> reporter: it is always a possibility john edwards might testify. but lawyers make poor witnesses. especially lawyers that are used to winning all the time and especially a lawyer where you saw a videotape of him on "nightline" lying. that is what the jury saw. he probably should not take the stand and his lawyers will try to keep him off the stand unless they really feel he's going to -- really is super important to their case. >> seems like we are making day-to-day analysis over there. some analystsding suggest john edwards' lawyers may be taking a cue from president clinton's impeachment hearing. how exactly are they doing that. >> reporter: i think what's going on here is that they are looking at the long run. they are looking at the you a peel here. they are looking at lots of different things along the way. they want to win now. if not they will win on appeal.

and in a long, long view. they wouldn't see if they can also resurrect john edwards' reputation here by showing that what he did was not a violation of the law. >> professor friedman, we will let you go back inside and get dry. thank you, sir. a look at other stories topping the news now for you. we do expect to learn how california's governor plans to tackle the state's $16 billion budget shortfall. governor brown is expected to call for higher taxes when he lays out his budget plan today. his message, raise taxes ordeal with tripling cuts to education and public safety. after only four months on the job the ceo of yahoo has stepped down. scott thompson came under fire for lifting a computer science degree he never received on house resume. he has thyroid cancer. "the wall street journal" says his decision was partly based on that diagnosis. more box office record blown

away by the movie "the aveng avengers." $103 million this weekend. breaking the $1 billion mark worldwide. it is expected to pass "the hunger games" as the top grossing movie so far this year. mission accomplished. >> what's that supposed to mean? >> it is something i like to say when a problem isn't solved but i don't want to talk about it anymore. >> president george w. bush back on "saturday night live." wait until you see this. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye-care experts at bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. [ male announcer ] ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin

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conference call moments ago. the band has been silenced since the hazing of the death of the student. the president didn't come to this decision lightly but wanted to be respectful of champion's family. >> a young man lost his life. and others suffered serious injuries. the band must be restructured. there is a limited time frame between now and the fall in which to adequately implement any recommendations that are adopted by the organizational and managerial restructuring of the band. >> joining me now is jordan culver. it is good to have you here. as the president said, this new set of guidelines needs to be in place before the band is reinstated, including these new academic standards as we heard there, there's limited time now. between this point and the fall to make that happen. one of the things they are talking about is limited time to participate in the band.

let's talk about, though, what did the president go on to say about how that action plan is being drawn up right now? >> thank you very much for having me on. right now, it looks like for the band, new halftime perfe perfor being discussed, new avenues of entertainment for the football team. as of right now, since the band won't be a factor in the 2012-2013 academic year, the school will have to find new ways to get students involved with its music program because right now the band is the -- like you said, band has been silenced. >> they are in limbo. it was just in a letter to trustees last week james ammons suggested he may allow the band to start playing again while this investigation was going on saying, quote, i have asked the intern april crisis management team to speak to the sturngts alumni, boosters, and the athletic department over the next two days to hear their input about the conditions for bringing the band back.

what do you think that changed his mind? >> i think that what changed his mind is the fact that if you bring the band back now it shows that when you said the band is being suspended, that you weren't -- ruling with an iron fist as you should be in a time of crisis in the university. the university right now is -- in huge turmoil. people are questioning hum left and right within the university and outside of the university and ammons knows now is the time he needs to strike against hazing. if he can't do that now with a powerful stroke, then robert champion's death will have been in vain because the students know that if they are allowed back on campus, back on to these old practices, they know it goes right back to the way things were. >> jordan, let's talk about this. news came last week that more than 100 band members weren't famu students when champion

died. could this be a big reason why the band wasn't reinstated? >> i mean, it is a huge reason. just from the band students i have spoken with and talked to since the news came out that the students were not members or weren't students, it was -- it was something that not really -- didn't shock anybody had which is a problem, no one was shocked that these band members weren't students at the university. when you have to be in good academic standing and -- when that news came out and the fact that no one outside of the administration was shocked, that's a problem and i'm sure ammons realized that and saw that students aren't shocked by misconduct innocent band and the community thank you is in shock by misconduct in the band. that's a problem. i think ammons is doing what he can and thinks is right to step away from that problem. >> jordan, nice to see you this morning. thank you. the director of the secret service is going on the hot seat. it is time for the sidebar.

the homeland security committee will hold a hearing on the 23rd on the prostitution scandal involve nagts colombia. mark sullivan will be grilled over the investigation and in his plans to make sure it never happens again. >> ron paul supporters booing mitt romney's son josh off the stage in arizona this weekend. josh was asking the crowd to slick delegates for his father at the arizona gop convention saturday when he cut his speech short and left the stage. 90-year-old tv actress betty white is the latest hollywood star to endorse president obama. she says she likes the way the president, quote, represents us. and will ferrell brought his george w. bush character back to "saturday night live." take a look. >> you seem down. what's wrong? >> everybody says i have a big mouth. >> yeah. >> well, it is my big mouth that got things done this time. okay? not his careful weighing of

options. >> those smarty pants types are never going to understand speak first guys like us i'm just so sick of the way presidents are always riding me. i mean, i'm an adult! >> hey, i have been there. i have been there. i used to catch grief all the time for president cheney. i mean -- i would be in the oval office hooking up the slurpee machine, settling into a "charlie in charge" marathon. get your damned pete, we are about to bomb blah-blah. >> i'm a marathon runner. he was just... "get me an aspirin"... yeah... i knew that i was doing the right thing, when i gave him the bayer. i'm on an aspirin regimen... and i take bayer chewables. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. so he's a success story... [ laughs ] he's my success story. [ male announcer ] learn how to protect your heart

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president obama's endorsement of marriage equality becomes a rallying cry for the religious right. republican mitt romney has cheered or was cheer this had weekend at virginia's liberty university when he said it wasn't a matter of rights but f religion. >> culture, how you live matters. now, as fundamental as these

principles are, they may become topics of democratic debate from time to time. so it is today with the enduring institution of marriage, marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman. >> joining me now reverend irene monroe, religion columnist and author of "let your light shine like a rainbow," and henry jackson, christian church. the reverend monroe, the president himself has said he understands how some see his endorsement as against their religious principles. do you support the president's endorsement of this, but do you also understand why some people might not? >> oh, i absolutely applaud the president for taking this courageance stance. one of the things we have to remember here is that obama is president and not pastor of the united states. and that means not just some

people but it means all people. so i'm delighted that his moral consciousness and his theological thoughts have evolved to be about inclusion and one of the things that he lifted up in his statement, he said the golden rule, lifting up the golden rule of jesus is that we all want to be treated fairly, that treat others as you like to be treated. and he's a family man. so he understands this. >> bishop jackson, i wanted to get to you because the "new york times" reports the president gathered several spiritual leaders last week to explain his decision. some said they continue to endorse him. others said they could no longer back him. where do you fall? >> well, i can't really back him on this. i believe that we're having a marriage amendment process unfolding in maryland where my headquarters church is, and many, many people have already kind of gotten a little bit upset. but the real question is, where do they go? if you don't like president

obama, can you really trust romney? if there's going to be some reaction that counts, there has to be some leadership and rallying of the pro traditional marriage forces to make a major impact i think. >> bishop, you talk about maryland where there will be a referendum for marriage equality. you are familiar with d.c. where marriage equality is legal. you said though last year on a radio show concerning marriage equality in washington, d.c., and this is what you said to the deejay, that i'm an african-american and i especially believe what we're dealing with is a satanic plot to destroy our seed. do you believe is the white house has been infiltrate bid this same plot, the president is part of some sort of satanic plot? >> when you hear those terms, that is religious terms in house speak if you would on religious programming. that's for people that will believe like i believe. so. >> but you wouldn't use that language right now on msnbc to

say it's a religious plot because you don't think that this is a religious network? >> well, it is a secular network. i would say to you my theological stance is that if this traditional marriage is correct as i believe that it is it, then whatever forces fight against it are fighting against the purposes of god. and that's a very, very simple concept. >> reverend monroe, when you hear that because there are certainly christians across this country, spiritual people across the country that believe in anti-discrimination loss, that believe in equality, how do you try to change hearts and minds like that of the bishop's to believe in marriage equality? >> see, what i try to do is to steer people away from the kind of religious-based bigotry that bishop jackson is espousing. one of the things that i try to highlight is that when you

discriminate against same-sex marriage, you're not only discriminating against a couple, but also the children in those families. and one of the things that not only obama is about, but so, too, the black community espouses all the time is saving the black family. the family has always been a multiple structure because of slavery and other forms of discrimination. there are two things we learned of in terms of multiple family structures in the community. it's not the nuclear family but it has to be a nurturing family. and the second one is that it's not about the composition of that family, but it's about the character of the people who are raising those children. we very grown -- we have grown up in the black community with grandmothers raising us, with aunts raising us, with ungs raising us. if anything, we have that. we have that he before us. and also, obama comes out of a multiple structured family.

he doesn't come out of that nuclear family because his mother was a white woman from kansas and his father was an african from kenya. so the whole thing is that thee logically, i think, and also in terms of democracy, we're moving forward because what jesus said is this. is that what you do for the least of my brothers and sisters you have also done for me. and one of the things that we have as lesbian, gay by sexual and transi gent families is we don't have you the same federal and state rights. we are berest of 1,138 federal rights and benefits of other -- of het rote sexual families. that is true, bishop jackson. >> i need to jump in. i want to invite you guys back on the program though because there's a lot more to have on this debate. >> i'd like to be able to say a little something. thank you. >> bishop henry jackson, reverend irene monroe. that's going to wrap up the hour for me.

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the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through. it? team obama sinks its teeth into candidate mitt as the rominee huddles in boston to strategize a response. over at obama campaign, hq in chicago, protesters are sforming the gates demanding a week without capitalism. somewhere, jamie dimon is shaking his head. it's monday, may 14th and this is "now." >> joining me today msnbc contributor and son of the south jimmy williams is here, nbc latin knowles.com commentator alisha ma deny dez, matt taibbi