movie theaters, sports arenas and more. >> you mayors are the ones who got us in obesity mess in the first place. remember new york in the '70s, times square, hookers, flashers, smack addicts, drug dealers? you name it, we had them. and look at us. we looked great. so svelt. and then mayor giuliani had to clean the place up. guess what happens when you go in and replace strip clubs and porn theaters with the bubba gump shrimp company, and my favorite one, the m&m store. let me ask you a question. why the [ bleep ] is a store that sells nothing but m&ms? this is new york. you can buy m&ms in any store! why do you need a store that's all m&ms? i'm going to open up an altoid world. look, mr. mayor, pick your poison. obesity is the problem now?

fine. i think i know how to solve it. reintroduce crack. it may be whack. but when that weight comes off, it stays off. >> that is absolutely sick. good morning, everyone. there's the m&m store. it is friday, june 1. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle and former governor of pennsylvania and nbc news political analyst ed rendell. he has a new book. >> i like it. >> "a nation of wusses." >> that's tough. >> we talk about that every day here. >> you had to use the title, right? >> that's pretty good, ed. and from washington, contributor to "newsweek" and "the daily beast" and with the consulting firm hill and knowlton -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa.

my eyes kind of hurt. >> stop the train. >> wait a minute. >> that's not what -- >> have you got a job interview today, mark? what's going on? >> his wife picked it out. >> oh, there you go. >> now it makes more sense. good to see you. >> showing my respect for the white house today. >> yeah. >> thank you, alex. >> yeah, alex was talking. >> he was at the white house yesterday with the bush portrait. >> you were there yesterday when president bush got his portrait reveal. i thought that was very nice exchange between the obamas and the bushes. >> it was very cute. >> yeah, it really was. i thought it might be a hanging but there was actually a portrait involved, and there was a lot of good humor and a lot of smurmer. i asked willie about that one. >> thank you. >> but a lot of fun, a lot of good feeling. shared respect for the institution of the white house. and the one thing that was

really -- that really came across was the great feeling that everybody had in the room, not just for 43 and 44 but for 41, george hw bush who was there in a wheelchair, and got a huge ovation and a lot of good feeling. it was a great day where politics was put aside for a moment, and a lot of good laughs. >> 43 began to lose his composure when he mentions his dad. >> he did. >> and it's such a moving, moving moment. there's a story in the president's club book talking about how after 43 got inaugurated, his father walked into the white house and they just looked at each and couldn't talk because it was -- they were about to both break down. but, ed, it is fascinating. and i love seeing this. you saw it with bill clinton and george hw bush.

george w. bush and now barack obama. two politicians seemingly from completely different worlds who when they first separate after the inauguration of the new president loathe each other. or at least don't care for each other. but over time, the new president recognizes all the tough choices the old president had to make. and that's republican, that's a democrat, a democrat and a republican, it happens every time a new president comes into the white house. >> i think there's no question about that. even at the level of governor. after six months, i felt a huge respect for the men and women who had gone before me. and you can't help but do it. you're there. you're alone. it's your decision. it's nobody else's. there's nobody to protect you. nobody to pass it off to. it's an awesome responsibility. and it grabs you. and you appreciate anybody who did it. >> mika, so many presidents go into the white house thinking, and their people go in thinking, they are the first ones to have

ever cracked the code, the smartest guys on the plaemnet, d how could those guys be such idiots. and about a year, year and a half in, and we have all seen enough of these transitions. even eisenhower, jfk was contemptuous of eisenhower. he was old, he was the past. when he got in trouble, he picked up the phone and who did he call? dwight eisenhower and said, general, could you come up to camp david? i need to talk. same thing happened with lbj. same thing happened with nixon. you can go down the list. they all did that. >> the honeymoon is over at some point, usually, for every president. >> yeah. >> that's when you realize, you know, the last husband that was married to the white house might be able to help you. >> a little insight. >> yeah, a little insight on the problems that you're facing. >> that was a lovely moment. >> it was. >> don't you think, joe, that president obama and president bush shared one very big thing, dealing with the crisis. in many ways, they dealt with it in a similar fashion.

the auto bailout, the bailout of the banks. those were tough decisions, and president obama basically came in and did what the bush administration had started and put in motion. >> they will be inseparable when the history books are written. because george w. bush began what barack obama finished with the bank bailouts, with the auto bailouts. you know, even president bush, mika, as we have said before, has come out -- one of the few things he has said publicly in commenting about this president's tenure has been that he would have done the same thing with detroit. >> and unlike other situations, the transition was graceful. there's been nothing but a graceful sort of relationship moving forward and quiet at times. >> people forget that the democrats gave president bush the necessary votes on the financial bailout. >> yeah. i know. >> let's start there. let's just show what happened yesterday. the portrait ceremony. >> we have a lot to cover, by the way. >> it is. but enough time to get to

politics and all of the ugliness with some of the other stories. but first to start on this note because this was really, really lovely, at the portrait ceremony at the white house yesterday. take a look. >> george, i will always remember the gathering you hosted for all of the living former presidents before i took office. your kind words of encouragement. plus you also left me a really good tv sports package. [ laughter ] >> i am pleased that my portrait brings an interesting symmetry to the white house collection. it now starts and ends with a george w. when the british burn the white house as fred mentioned, in 1814, dolly madison famously saved this portrait of the first george w. now, michelle, if anything happens -- [ laughter ] >> there's your man.

i'm also pleased, mr. president, that when you are wandering these halls as you wrestle with tough decisions you will now be able to gaze at this portrait and ask, what would george do? [ laughter ] >> it is my privilege to introduce the greatest first lady ever. sorry, mom. [ laughter ] >> it was really gracious of you to invite us back to the white house to hang a few family pictures. and i'm sure you know nothing makes a house a home like having portraits of its former occupants staring down at you from the walls. [ laughter ] >> wow. very nice. >> you know what they ought to do? they ought to take yesterday's presentation, shown live here on msnbc, and show it to the people running the campaigns of both mitt romney and barack obama. show that to them. because that's a civilized way to go about our politics.

there's no need to get into the demonization that all campaigns evolve into eventually. >> you know, we always hear that negative campaigning works, and maybe it has in the past. there is no doubt, though, a complete exhaustion. and a candidate that is willing to seem to be right -- and i'm talking about even -- not doing it for the right reasons, do it for the cynical reasons. the candidate that appears to be rising above the fray and being adult will be rewarded by independent swing voters who are sick and tired of the polarization, the stupidity -- the stupidity that we see on the campaign trail and that we see on news channels every night. the stupidity is mind numbing. how extreme everybody is. and they seize on the small, small, small kernel of truth and try to plant an entire field with it. and they just look dumb. and voters know that. >> yeah. >> americans know that.

they want so much more. >> some of the stories we're going to get to, i don't think resonate with everyone, and i think it plays into your book as well, which we'll get to. the obama campaign's attack on mitt romney's business record went into a big road block last night. bill clinton was the road block. the former president warned -- >> speaking of former presidents. >> against criticizing the republican nominee's time as a corporate ceo. in fact, clinton praised mitt romney's background at the investment firm bain capital. >> praised it. >> he did. take a look. >> i think it will affect some people who relate well to businessmen. and i think he had a good business career. there's a lot of controversy about that. but if you go in and you try to save a failing company, and you and i have friends here who invest in companies, you can invest in a company, run up the debt, loot it, sell all the assets, and force all the people

to lose their retirement and fire them. or you can go into a company, have cutbacks, try to make it more productive with the purpose of saving it. and when you try, like anything else you try, you don't always succeed. not every movie you made was a smash hit. >> that's for sure. >> i don't think we ought to get into the position where we say this is bad work. this is good work. there's no question that in terms of getting up and going to the office and, you know, basically performing the essential functions of the office a man who has been governor and had a sterling business career crosses that qualification threshold. >> sterling. >> do you know what you're not going to see? >> what's that? >> the cory booker hostage tape. bill clinton is his own man. he said what he believes and he's not going to apologize for it, and he can't be wrangled. that's bill clinton speaking his mind. >> ed rendell, i have not seen a hostage tape from him.

i have not seen, mike barnicle, a hostage tape from deval patrick. and that is because -- and we tuesday from the beginning, we said it before this started happening, this strategy separates this president not only from republicans and from independents but from a hell of a lot of democrats. and he is -- this story keeps exploding every day in his face. and they've got to back away from it. again, just cynically, if you want to be cynical about it, this is a losing, losing argument. and he undercuts himself by going to fundraisers at the gigantic homes of these guys. >> and asking for $35,000 a pop, yeah. but yesterday, in terms of surrogates, the president and his campaign had a particularly difficult day. it began with deval patrick. >> on "morning joe." >> with us yesterday morning. ended with bill clinton, as we just saw. and in the middle, i think you

had david axelrod in boston trying to get the campaign back on the track of let's look at governor romney's record in massachusetts. he didn't mention bain capital. >> deval patrick you mentioned. let's look at that. he struggled once again. one of the many obama surrogates who are doing so at the campaign strategy of attacking bain. take a look. >> i think that the bain strategy has been distorted in some of the public discussion about it. bain is a perfectly fine company. they have got a role in the private economy. and i've got a lot of friends there. and on both sides of the aisle. >> do you think the obama campaign team now has been sufficiently stung and realize this is a losing argument, leave it in may, and move forward with a different tack? >> i think so. i think what mike said is right. governor romney, for reasons that are political, doesn't mention his time as governor. and i think that's tied up to the health care bill that he

passed, which i thought was the best of any state in the nation. and he has backed away from it. so i think that's where the emphasis should be. and i want to say one thing, joe. the fallout of negative campaigning is people's lack of confidence in government. and think about it. we pound each candidate for a year. pound them. and then someone wins. well, half the nation thinks that person is a bum. so how are they going to have confidence in government to do anything? and i say in my book, i believe that government has a role. it can do things to change people's lives. and yet it's important that people have confidence in government if it's going to work. all this negative campaigning in addition to screwing up our campaigns, in addition to making sure that people don't turn out and vote, it's eroding people's confidence that government can do anything well. >> mark, we've seen this with the rise not just of negative campaigning, but of the massive amounts of money that reinforce the negative campaigning that a

lot of times governors and senators get elected, and they are already upside down the day they are sworn in favorability rating. i don't know that barack obama can afford to run the same type of campaign in 2012 that karl rove ran in 2004 with george w. bush. i don't think it's going to work. >> well, you're right about the money, joe. it's so distorting, the process. and just to give you an example of how badly that's happening with the supreme court decision of a couple of years ago, two people, the cox brothers, will spend more money in this election than john mccain spent in his entire presidential campaign. that's just two people. now, and i don't mean to just single them out because there are people on both sides of the aisle. but individuals, you know, are spending millions of dollars to influence this election, and will spend more money than the actual candidates themselves. so what's happening is that the money is just corrupting the system. and the governor is right.

we're going to have this campaign going on from now until november and the voters at the end of that are just going to say, you know, nobody can govern. >> clearly, back to the bain attacks, i think they have been trying to move from them. i think they finally get it. >> really? >> absolutely. that's why deval patrick was put out by the campaign to be on shows like ours yesterday. and as mike -- >> you know, the worst people too attack venture capitalists would be mayors, would be governors. >> that's true. >> because they're the ones that know that if they want to get people working, they need smart venture capitalists to take a look at their city or their state and make wise investments and grow the economy. >> what they want to do, though, is have governors and mayors talk about what has happened in massachusetts. and on the steps of the massachusetts state house yesterday, david axelrod argued that mitt romney's experience in the governor's mansion doesn't bode well for a potential presidency. take a look at what happened.

>> it's not a prescription for leadership as we saw in massachusetts. he tried to bring those same principles to massachusetts, and the middle class suffered. the state lagged far behind the rest of the country in job creation. incomes declined. that's what happens when you try and translate those values and those principles into the governance of a state or a country. >> ok. he was getting drowned out by hecklers. >> i don't get the strategy. that's unusual, right? >> that to me is mystifying. first of all -- >> having david axelrod out there at a press conference. >> we know david. we like david. david is a terrific guy. that is a dumb move. why is he standing in front of the state house in boston, massachusetts, you know, talking about mitt romney's record, when no matter what happens, barack obama is going to carry massachusetts? by 10 to one. i mean, there's just no contest in massachusetts. what are they doing? >> it's what mika said.

they are shifting the conversation to his record in massachusetts. but the stage craft of it is what i don't get. it's unusual to see the senior adviser out holding a rally for the president. >> yeah. ed rendell, this romney team is -- they're not going to give the obama team any free punches. i think this is one example of how perhaps team obama is learning that it ain't 2008. they're not -- they're not, you know, the knight in shining armor. and things aren't going to be as easy. >> and, joe, i think after all this noise, and there's going to be an incredible amount of noise. in fact, i'm not worried about the money. a lot of democrats are worried about all of this money in the super pacs. people are going to tune this stuff out by late september. they are just going to say, enough. it's going to come down to the debates, the convention speech. and i also think it will come

down to someone who articulates where they want to take the country starting in january. and i think president obama has a good message. his message is, we've got to cut the deficit. he ought to come out strongly for simpson bowles and say, while we're doing it, we've got to keep investing in the things that are necessary to turn the country around. research, infrastructure, education. that's something folks can get their arms around. >> i think the focus on massachusetts could be effective. i'm just not sure about the execution yesterday. and then the hecklers were fed into later by mitt romney himself. axelrod's remarks were drowned out as you can see. we showed you the sound bite. and now this rally. romney later in the day came to the hecklers' defense. take a listen. >> most of the events i go to or many of the events i go to, there are large groups of, if you will, obama supporters there are heckling me. and at some point, you say, you know, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. if they are going to be heckling

us, we're not going to sit back and play by very different rules. if the president will have his people coming to my rallies and heckling, why, we'll show them that, you know, we conservatives have the same kind of capacity he does. >> so they sent them in. sent people in to scream at david axelrod. are you kidding me? >> if i sent people to somebody else's rally, i wouldn't be talking about it on tv. >> that's incredible. it's kind of rude and childish actually. >> i am stunned that he would -- i'm stunned. >> with all due respect, that is really childish. >> come on, man. >> easy one. >> ed rendell, i'm not going to even ask what you've done in your political career. i'm not going to even ask. i don't want to know. but if you did -- >> they sent people there to scream at david axelrod? >> you wouldn't brag about it, would you? oh, come on, mika. democrats do that all the time.

>> well, they are not stupid enough to talk about it, obviously. >> exactly. bingo. >> joe, you know that a good public speaker can take protesters, play off them, and hit it out of the park. it happens all the time. part of the book, i say -- and one of the things politicians wuss out on is not showing up at events when there's going to be hecklers. eric cantor. you know, he bills himself as a young gun. and he is an awfully bright, smart guy. he backed away from an appearance at penn when he heard that some of the occupiers might be in the audience. well, if i were eric cantor, as smart as he is, i would have taken those occupiers and twisted them into pretzels. you know, that's what it's all about. people hate people who try to drown out others. they hate them. >> yeah. they do. coming up, former presidential candidate buddy roemer. >> i cannot believe that he would just go out and say, yeah, we sent people there. >> i'm going to send a team of

people to scream -- >> what's good for the goose is good for the gander. >> sauce? what year did that come from? >> '53. >> when the rambler came out. >> he didn't say good for the goose. he said sauce for the goose. you know, it comes in those little tea trays and they ladle it out. you have had sauce. >> i understand that. i just -- who says what sauce? >> you don't hear that a lot. >> no, you don't. >> i don't think in today's environment you send people to scream. it's not -- i don't think it's -- >> yes, it's done. come on, it's done. >> i think there's more serious conversation about why you don't do that. >> but it's done. >> i will say in this climate, i wouldn't do that. >> try to give a speech as a conservative in certain places where there's heavy union membership. and then come talk to me about being shocked and stunned and deeply saddened that republicans would do that. >> this isn't the dartmouth review back in the '80s. like a bunch of college kids thinking they are being

political. this could be -- it's not -- you know it's not cool. >> what are you saying, man? what? >> i don't think it's a good idea on a number of really serious levels to be doing that. would you like to go there? >> it's not a good thing to admit it. >> would you like to go there? >> go where? >> about why that would be a very bad idea to send people into an audience to start screaming at someone who is at the podium? >> i think it's stupid to do it. >> are you all stupid or do you want to not have this conversation? >> i don't think it's the worst thing in the world. it's bad, but i wouldn't talk about it for the next 10 minutes. i'm a little more concerned about what's going on in syria. >> yeah. >> than a couple of morons with signs. >> yeah. >> look who's coming up? >> buddy roemer will join us onset. we'll talk to ed gillespie. maybe we'll ask him about that. also david gregory with a preview of "meet the press." and "washington post" columnist eugene robinson. up next -- >> wait. hold it. let's put those four guys back up again.

willie, just wondering, of those four which is the most likely to have ever said in their lifetime what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander? >> david gregory. >> david's hip. >> i think david's hip. >> you would never find buddy roemer saying that. >> buddy, never. >> what about gene? >> i'm going to fry that goose up. >> gene? >> no, gene wouldn't say that. >> he would say it in french. >> that's good. all right. mike allen with the top stories in the politico playbook. and find out which stories make the cut in willie's week in review. but first, todd santos with a check on the weekend forecast. >> thanks so much, mika. at least a few of us as we finish off the week may have showers and thunderstorms to deal with especially around d.c. and eastern virginia. a good stretch of the mid 95 corridor there. noticing the showers right now, good sections of central and lower michigan. detroit getting some of that action. new york starting off with sunshine. boston as well. boston should keep that sunshine throughout the day. many areas to the south of new york getting into the thunderstorms. this is the storm prediction center. light risk for severe weather

today. hail and winds in some of the stronger storms but also isolated track for tornadoes. if you're inside that yellow area, make sure you have a way to get your warnings today and take them seriously if they are issued. there's a look at showers across portions of southern and central florida as well. cool temperatures towards the great lakes as well. mild across the east coast, and that will be fuel for those thunderstorms. right now, you're watching "morning joe." lots more coming up. hey, the new guy is loaded with protein!

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time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the washington post." it says after four weeks of testimony, former presidential candidate john edwards has been acquitted on a charge of political corruption. a mistrial was declared on five other charges on which the jury

was deadlocked. a source within the justice department says it is unlikely that edwards would face a new trial. >> that's the right thing. leave the guy alone, all right? i mean, come on. "the times." offering new details about what's being called america's first sustained use of cyber attacks. according to the report, president obama escalated the computer attacks on iran's nuclear facility shortly after taking office. he used a program that was first developed and operating under the bush administration. some experts estimate that it has delayed iran's efforts as much as two years. in sunday's "parade" magazine, singer neal diamond opens up about life, love, and his five decades in the music business. now to politico. chief white house correspondent there mike allen has a look at the playbook. mike, good morning. >> happy friday. >> there it is. >> look how cute he is. >> and back in his home library this morning. >> thank god.

>> not at politico. >> it looks like downton abby. >> you should see the dining room. >> he's so well read. the upstairs, downstairs thing. it's amazing. >> you do want to watch out there. mitt romney making a big push as you report this morning through swing states touting his anti-obama economic plan. but, mike, you say the message and the visits aren't quite matching up. what do you mean by that? >> well, yeah. there's a big problem. ginger gibson ran the numbers and found that 2/3 of the places where mitt romney has been going, the economy is better than it is elsewhere in the country. that the economy is actually improving. and sometimes the local officials who introduce mitt romney have been mentioning that. and there's a simple reason for this. the swing states, the place where these guys are going, the economy does tend to be better.

but they looked at five swing states and found that the grumpy voter effect, and that is voters who think that regardless of the national numbers that things aren't good for them or they don't feel it, the grumpy voter effect is being mitigated in the most important states. in ohio, steel workers, auto workers are getting overtime shifts this summer. colorado, the unemployment rate likely to be a point lower than the nation. and virginia was spared the worst effects. florida is one where you'll still have grumpy voters, and that could switch to romney. nevada is going to have a high unemployment rate. but things are getting better there too. so there's a real disconnect here for the romney message. where does he go to say that things are terrible? >> and, mike, don't you think he really goes into conflict with some republican governors? because john kasich is out there talking about the ohio turn-around, and so is governor mcdonald. so they are out there saying things are getting better, and

he comes in and says the economy is lousy. it sort of conflicts within the framework of his own party. >> well, right. and what you were saying earlier, that people want their moses. people want someone to talk about where they are going go. you don't want a debbie downer for president, which is a little bit of a dilemma for the mitt romney message. >> as you point out in the piece, ginge ginger points out states lower than the national average in the country. >> and that's opposite of what happened in 1980, where all the swing states were suffering more. >> jimmy carter paid for it in the fall. >> do you think, mike, with debbie downer, he might say sauce for the goose? >> a little gray poupon. >> mike allen, happy friday to you. get back to your books. >> happy weekend. the oklahoma city thunder strike back, ending the win

streak for the spurs. highlights are next. you do a lot of kayaking?

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all right. let's do some sports. down two games to none in the

conference finals. thunder against the spurs. spurs have won 20 in a row. last loss in the regular season. kevin durant sets the tone. great environment, great crowd in oklahoma city. that dunk over tim duncan. durant had 22. thunder in the midst of a huge second quarter. russell westbrook. alley-oop. the dunk by kendrick perkins, thunder up by 15. they outscored the spurs 32-17 in the second quarter. this one out to sefolosha. he drains the three. everyone chipping in for the thunder. five players in double figures. thunder up big in the fourth. how about this to cap it? james harden to westbrook. alley-oop, thunder blow out the spurs 102-82 and snap that 20-game winning streak. the thunder have a chance to even the series tomorrow night back at home in oklahoma city. the eastern conference finals move to boston tonight, with the celtics trying to avoid falling into a 3-0 hole against the heat.

oklahoma city thunder did pick up its first win in the series, the franchise may have found its way into a feud with lil' wayne. after failing to get a ticket to last night's game, the rapper tweeted, was going to go to the thunder game don't but was denied by the team to be in their arena. wow. shaking my head. go spurs. an official said he did have tickets but because he insisted on sitting in the front row, the team could not accommodate him. like anybody else, he needs a ticket. one more story for you, mike. this is for you and joe as well. back page of "the post." it was 20 years ago today that the new york yankees drafted the young kid by the name of derek jeter, june 1, 1992. signed for about $700,000. five world series later. >> 20 years ago. >> the amazing thing is his contract runs for another 20 years. and he gets paid $700,000 a day.

>> he's hitting .330. i hope he plays another 20 years. >> great player. >> and a great guy. >> great guy. >> you can hate everybody else, but not jeter. >> i don't, i don't. >> he and a-rod. great guys. up next, mika's must-read opinion pages. >> do you really like a-rod? [ horn honks ]

hey, it's sandra -- from accounting. peter. i can see that you're busy... but you were gonna help us crunch the numbers for accounts receivable today. i mean i know that this is important. well, both are important. let's be clear. they are but this is important too. [ man ] the receivables. [ male announcer ] michelin knows it's better for xerox to help manage their finance processing. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

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we've been covering. for one brief moment in washington, d.c., politics and partisanship was put aside and presidents barack obama and george w. bush shared some compliments and laughs at the white house. the vibe was good all around. it's clear that while they may not be friends, obama and bush share a lofty respect for the institution of the presidency and the white house, and therefore go out of their way to show grace to one another. so, mark, is that only possible after the fact? when a president is a former president? >> i would hope so, mika. yesterday just reinforced it. we have really good people in our politics in this country. but as governor rendell pointed out, the money is so corrosive it corrupts the entire system. yesterday was just a glimpse i think into a couple of very good men and women to reflect a little bit on the institution of the white house, which they both revere. and it was a very classy deal.

and with good humor and good feelings all around. it was a nice moment. but it also just makes us realize how poisonous it is once we flash forward to the campaign trail. and it's just amazing to me to think about how brutal it is right now and to think that it's only the end of may, and we're going to have this all the way through november. it feels like october right now to me. >> yeah. i mean, not that we -- look, if that's possible, what we were witnessing yesterday at the white house, then a lot more is, i think, from the campaigns. >> i think it's a winning message. i really do. i know a lot of people on both sides think that it's a sign of weakness. but, again, if you want to be tough, even cynically, it makes sense to reach out to independent voters. and that's why i think mitt romney is making a mistake, mark mckinnon, by criticizing the president on every foreign policy move he makes. >> absolutely, joe. i agree.

independent voters recognize that they want to hear a positive message, how people can work together. and if a candidate would just occasionally reach out and say, you know, hey, the other guy did something positive, they would get such credit for just candor and honesty, which is so lacking today. they just went authenticity. but if a guy makes a good move, say, hey, good move. >> yesterday, romney was asked how to grade obama, he gave him fs in everything, across the board. the smart way to do it would be, you know, a c in this, maybe a b minus in that. but when it comes to creating jobs, i'm sorry, as much as i hate to do it, i've got to give him an f. he's failed miserably. instead of fs straight across the board, this guy just politically is so ham fisted. >> of course, it's a sign of the times too. mark, i thought when romney started out campaigning, he struck the right tone. president obama is a good man. he is a patriot. he's tried his best. but he just didn't have the experience to understand the job

and he's over his head. i thought that was a message that even some americans who like president obama would have said, you know, he's probably right. >> that's right, governor. that's the right tone. and he'd get a lot of support from independent voters with that sort of tonality on the campaign. and if he can acknowledge that people respect the president, he's done great on foreign policy, but on the issue today in america, on jobs, he hasn't delivered like he said he would. >> mark, why do you -- we all agree that more positive politics would be nice. it was over something simple, the hanging of portraits. on the same day you had president obama reminding everyone he inherited this economy to george bush. it seems so obvious to us. why don't they just do it? >> well, i think because they understand that the stakes are -- they think that they have to frame the race right now, and

they want to both make it a referendum on each other. i remember in 2004, much of the race was framed in march and may. and i think that they just think the stakes are happening right now. and they can't afford to wait to frame the race in terms of how the other is positioned. i think that's driving a lot of it. >> and, mark, they see the visceral example of what happened to newt gingrich after he won south carolina. he came into florida, and they just nuked him. and he was gone. he was gone. so that reinforces this belief that it works. but the difference is, it may work for a too weak campaign. but you give voters this, as joe said, for six or seven months, and they are going to get sick of it. >> they are already sick of it. what might be interesting to watch, i would be interested, governor, in what you and mark think about this and what joe thinks about this, because you've been on the ballot, is with regard to president obama's campaign, four years ago, the message was we are the ones who have been waiting for. we can do this together. hope and change. and yet now the barrage of

negative ads and negative campaigning that seems to be coming from the obama campaign, you know, again, which is understandable, they are now making him out in the eyes of a lot of voters who are filled with disappointment and anxiety, making the president out to be just another politician. oh, oh, he does it too. so he's not the one we've been waiting for. >> right. and he did have the opportunity. and i think he still does, to say, look, we didn't get all the change we wanted. but here's my plan. i need a congress to help me. >> there you go. >> we can create jobs. we can rebuild this nation's infrastructure and put people back to work. let's do it, folks. >> harry truman. >> absolutely. >> and the thing is, sometimes what i think some of the president's supporters and romney's supporters, it's not about getting even with the other side. because democrats will say, oh, you want him to be positive, but romney's kicking him. no. the idea is not to get even. not to trade punches. the idea is to win.

and win any way you can win. and the way barack obama wins is playing to type, by being more focused on the positive, by ignoring mitt romney personally. and talking about like you said all the things that he said he's going to do. this is -- boy, they just seem way off right now. >> and this idea that you have to win the day. that's what you hear them saying, we won tuesday. well, who cares? >> great. good for you. >> you know, it's like a baseball season. everybody's setting their hair on fire in april about bobby valentine. we were saying it's a long season. it's a long season. >> do you have any idea of how many duracell batteries people will go through with clickers to get away from these campaign ads? up next, "willie's week in review." [ female announcer ] the next generation of investing technology

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oh, yes. tell me it's time. >> it's time for "the week in review." >> these damn bills that come out of here all the damn time -- >> at number three, who's the bost? >> come out here at the last second. and i've got to try to figure out how to vote for my people. >> illinois state representative mike bost, republican, went with the rare combination this week of chucking paper and quoting moses to make a point in a debate over pension reform. >> i feel like somebody is trying to be released from egypt. let my people go! >> bost's rant for the ages took

place inside the same illinois state house where one year ago the senate minority leader invoked wu-tang. >> everything around us, get the money, dollar, dollar bill, y'all. thank you. >> and where a couple of years before that, governor rod blagojevich made his last stand. >> what did i do in this case but provide health care for low income families? >> at number two p-r-o-d-i-g-y. >> dir igible. >> 6-year-old lori ann madison of woodbridge, virginia, became the youngest competitor ever to compete in the scripps national spelling bee. >> hi. hi. >> she nailed her first word.

but then the panel decided to swiftly crush little lori ann's beautiful dream by throwing at her a word no one of any age has ever heard of, ever. >> v-i-e-s. >> that is incorrect. >> on the bright side, lori ann has got a long career of competitive spelling ahead of her. and at least this didn't happen to her. >> oh, my gosh. >> and the number one story of the week -- >> mitt romney has in fact won the texas republican primary, and has clinched the nomination. >> texas voters put mitt romney over the top in delegates. >> romney's rivals were right. they always said it would come down to texas. >> mitt romney removed the word "presumptive" from his title of republican nominee, but his coronation this week was overshadowed by the renewed public analysis from one romney supporter, a 50-year-old hawaiian state documents.

>> there are many people who do not believe -- >> give me a name. >> there are many people -- i don't give names. >> donald, you're beginning to sound a little ridiculous, i have to tell you. >> i think you are. frankly, if you would report it accurately, i think you would probably get better ratings than you're getting which are pretty small. >> yes, donald j. trump got his birther back on this week on the same day he shared the stage at a vegas fundraiser with romney. >> a lot of people do not think it was an authentic certificate. >> how can you say that? >> but many people do not think it was authentic. >> president obama, meanwhile, watched the spectacle with amusement while back at the white house hanging out with bob dylan, who as the president learned, removes the shades for no man. >> i have to say that i am a really big fan. >> president obama in the white house giving the medal of freedom to bob dylan, a long way from his days in the state house down in springfield, illinois, listening to another unhinged rant from bost. >> these damn bills that come

out of here all the damn time, come out here at the last second! and i've got to try to figure out how to vote for my people! >> mike bost, everybody. mike bost. >> good one, willie. >> willie said earlier in the week the best part of that is the guy behind him, who is acting like nothing is happening. >> i've seen this before. >> this is usual. >> not the first time with bost. up next, david gregory and eugene robinson. keep it on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] you sprayed them. thought they were dead. [ laughter ] [ grunting ] huh? [ male announcer ] should've used roundup. america's number one weed killer. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. guaranteed. weeds won't play dead, they'll stay dead. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem.

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it's not a prescription for leadership, as we saw in massachusetts. he tried to bring those same principles to massachusetts, and the middle class suffered. this state lagged far behind the rest of the country in job creation. incomes declined. that's what happens when you try and translate those values and those principles into the governance of a state or a country. >> most of the events i go to, or many of the events i go to, there are large groups of, if you will, obama supporters there, heckling me. and at some point, you say, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. if they are going to heckle us, we're not going to sit back and play by very different rules. if the president is going to have his people coming to my rallies and heckling, we'll show them that we conservatives have the same kind of capacity he does. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and ed rendell are still with us, along with mark mckinnon in washington. and joining us from washington,

moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. and pulitzer prize-winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. >> mark, i'm not going to ask you to like tell us what happened, you know, in shop or anything, speak out of school. but let me just ask you a question. if karl rove had sent some people from the bush team or some supporters to go out and hold signs and chant and disrupt speeches, would karl rove or we'll sayed rendell or anybody go out the next day and, say, well, we did that just to show how tough we were? i don't understand. mitt romney, he is running for president. what is he doing here, man? help me. >> the candidates should never talk about strategy, should never talk about tactics, never talk about that stuff out loud. it reminds a little bit about bob dole talking about focus groups. [ laughter ] >> yeah. david gregory, chime in. >> wait.

get to david in a second. ed rendell, i go to you next. i don't want to know what you did throughout your political career. >> stop it, stop it. >> but i am speechless that mitt romney would be this clumsy. >> absolutely. i would never touch it. mark's right. the cardinal rule you learn when you start running for office, never talk about process. you talk about ideas and substance and what you want to do. never talk about process. don't talk about polls. don't talk about focus groups. and certainly don't talk about sending protesters into another camp. >> a rally. >> is mark there, though? mark, is it fair to ask governor romney today what type of sauce he meant? was it the white sauce or the brown sauce? >> actually, that's fair game. that's policy. >> mark, can i just ask you as a guy who has run campaigns, is it unusual for a campaign, i won't ask you about your personal experience unless you want to divulge something, to send in hecklers direct from the campaign or do you give yourself one degree -- do you do it with

one degree of separation so it can't be traced back to you? >> willie, i can't talk about that. [ laughter ] >> look at that picture. governor romney clearly could have gotten away with saying, it looks to me as if this was just an impromptu gathering of hedge fund managers who had been having wine across the street in the boston common. >> listen, i'm not naive enough to think they didn't do this. but i just wonder how you do it as a practical matter so they don't trace it back to you. apparently no one will confess to anything here this morning. >> yeah. >> guys, what i want to know is, we look at this video, whose idea was it to say we'll send the hecklers in with the obama isn't working signs and the guy in the powder blue tie is going to be blowing bubbles. >> yes. >> that would be his role. >> i don't even know what that means. >> he's blowing bubbles. look at him. >> by the way, i heard you earlier. and i want to go on the record saying i have not once ever had gander in my vocabulary. >> are you sure?

>> with sauce or sans sauce. >> i'm going to say we all came to your name first. >> he did say sans sauce, though. let's talk about what happened yesterday, mika. the president sends out yet another surrogate. sends out the big guns. how does that go for him? >> no hostage video from this one. former president bill clinton is warning democrats against criticizing mitt romney's record as a corporate ceo. in fact, clinton praised romney's background at the investment firm bain capital. >> i think it will affect some people who relate well to businessmen. and i think he had a good business career. there's a lot of controversy about that. but if you go in and you try to save a failing company, and you and i have friends here who invest in companies, you can invest in a company, run up the debt, loot it, sell all the assets, and force all the people to lose their retirement and

fire them. or you can go into a company, have cutbacks, try to make it more productive with the purpose of saving it. and when you try, like anything else you try, you don't always succeed. not every movie you made was a smash hit. >> that's for sure. >> i don't think that we ought to get into the position where we say this is bad work. this is good work. there's no question that in terms of getting up and going to the office and, you know, basically performing the essential functions of the office a man who's been governor and had a sterling business career crosses that qualification threshold. >> bill clinton joins a growing list of obama surrogates who have struggled to stick to the campaign strategy of attacking romney's record at the private equity firm. it of course began with newark mayor cory booker who called the attacks of bain nauseating on "meet the press." on our set, steve rattner and harold ford jr. have expressed

concern over the bain attacks, even getting put in an rnc ad. and here is deval patrick yesterday on "morning joe." >> i think that the bain strategy has been distorted in some of the public discussion about it. bain is a perfectly fine company. they've got a role in the private economy. and i've got a lot of friends there and on both sides of the aisle. >> so, david gregory, it started with you. it appears that it just is -- this is not a strategy that the obama team are going to be able to hold onto. it is not even working with their most ardent supporters. >> right. well, two things. one is that i think the people like former president clinton, governor patrick, cory booker, are pro business democrats who i think worry and are worrying out loud about the president making his standing in a business community worse and giving governor romney an argument to a lot of voters out there to saying if you're worried about

creating jobs, if you're worried about what the private sector is doing this is a president who somehow has been hostile to business. he'll advance that argument. but talking to the obama campaign and top advisers they are not as concerned about this conversation we're having -- >> of course they're not. >> but the reason is because they make the argue familiarity they keep working this argument in swing states like ohio to a middle class worker who is out of a job or in danger of losing a job, they can say, remember, private equity firms should remind you of the folks who got us into this mess in the first place in the financial system that caused it to break down. and that's who mitt romney is. that's their argument. and he doesn't get you and your concerns. so that is the class argument they are making in terms of how they are targeting voters. and thus far, they don't appear to be scared off by some of this dissent. >> gene robinson, what do you think? >> well, i don't sense a pivot coming on yet.

because i -- when you start hearing the sort of muted dissent from, say, ohio, then i think there's a different situation. but clearly, this strategy is aimed at those rust belt swing states like ohio. and the obama campaign believes it is effective and will continue to be effective. so they are going to keep pushing it. >> and -- >> i'm not sure -- well, they are not trying to make a pivot, but -- >> i know the romney people are privately scratching their heads and wondering why the president's team is doing this, but they certainly hope that they keep doing it. they think this is -- >> yeah. >> they think that they are very lucky right now. >> this is turf they are comfortable with. i think they'd like to have a long debate over the role of private equity and about bain capital. because fundamentally, at the end of the day, no matter how you argue this, whether he created jobs, shaved jobs,

whatever, he was a fix it guy. these companies had problems and he went in and in most cases saved the companies. people are looking for a commander in chief to come in and save the economy. so this whole debate talks about mitt romney, it talks about the economy, it talks about him being a guy who's been in business, and in most cases he was a fix it guy. and in november, a lot of voters, a lot of independents, may be looking for a fix it guy. >> you know, but i think we're getting -- that gets to a level of discussing the merits that i don't think the president or his team want to get to. i think -- mark made the point earlier that just like in 2004, this is about identity and this is about definition. it's not about -- you know, nobody thinks they are going to win the argument over bane per se. it's about saddling him with the idea that he is a private equity guy, that is his business identity, and making him gordon gecko. as much as they can get that distinction is all they really care about so voters are thinking, does he get me? does his experience in the world

sort of comport with where i am? and i don't think they want to get any, you know, really beyond that. >> you know, ed, the reason why this just doesn't make sense to me as a guy looking at the campaign, as a campaign strategist, what i have heard from democratic business people over the past three years is i love the guy, i voted for the guy, he doesn't get business. i love the guy, i want him to get re-elected, he doesn't have any people around him that get business. and if they're saying it, if the most ardent obama supporters are saying it behind closed doors and they have for the past three years, we can make a very long list if we wanted to get in very big trouble with our friends who have told us this in confidence, swing voters are saying, again, you know, we've run for office before. we know what these swing voters think. they think very practically. and they're not going to be talking about venture capital. they are not going to be talking about gordon gecko. they are going to go in the voting booth and go, who's going to be able to get me back to

work? who will revive the economy? is it that big government guy who was a community organizer or that guy that ran that big business and was a venture something or another? we better have the guy that understands the economy. i mean, people strip it down. the independents that are going to win this election strip it down at the end. and that's why obama's attacks are so shortsighted, and i will say it, their campaign strategy right now is stupid and will lose the very swing voters they need to win this lbelection. >> i think to some degree the obama campaign is obsessed with white conservative blue collar democrats. and they think this is the message to get them fired up and get them to believe that mitt romney doesn't get them. and i think it's not going to work as well as saying, hey, guys, auto bailout, put a lot of you back to work. i want to invest in this country's infrastructure, which will put you back to work on bridges and roads and in factories. they don't.

i do. if it was up to me, we would have had that infrastructure plan in place, and you'd be back to work. that's the message. that's the message. >> they don't get it. they don't get it. >> it's a positive message. this is what i want to do. >> we do. >> exactly. gene, there is no doubt mitt romney doesn't understand what a white working class guy in dayton, ohio, is going through. he just doesn't. we're not knocking him. he doesn't get him. >> but if he can create jobs -- >> but they are going to vote for him if he can create jobs. and what's that barack obama has to go positive and say, save the economy. i saved you -- you know, you can go to your atm tomorrow because i saved it. guess what? you can go to your plant on monday because i saved the car industry when mitt romney wanted to kill it. you know what? you're still in your house because they did some things that mitt romney said he wouldn't do because he said he wanted the housing market to go completely to the bottom. that's how -- you know, you don't talk about venture capitalism. this is driving me crazy.

as a strategist. it makes no sense to me. i'm sorry. go ahead, gene. >> well, no. i was just going to say that i think that the central point here, the central danger here, is you don't want to -- you don't want to be the candidate who doesn't have a message for the future. so you don't want it to be mitt romney saying, i'm going to do something, and barack obama saying, you know, not saying that essentially. so i think you've got to put forward a program. i kind of like the one that ed rendell just came out with. i'm going to do infrastructure. we're going to put people back to work. but you have got to have that positive message about how things are going to get better. not only what i've done for you in the past but what i'm going to do. in order to connect, i think. >> but, you know, this is really pretty simple when you strip it away. i mean, this is about the obama campaign, i'm sure, in their focus groups, there's an element

of class warfare they are aiming at. and it would be successful to a certain extent. but the level of anxiety and disappointment out there in the country is such that at some point, as gene has said and as the governor has just said, they are going to have to say, listen, here's what i'm concerned about. i'm concerned about your family, your house, your kids' tuition, your immediate future and your long range future. i understand you. he's got to do harry truman. he has to say, i've been trying to get this done, but i have a republican congress who says no to everything. we have to turn things around in this country. the other guy can't do it. he's never going to let you in his club. you are in my club. and let's go. >> and the way you do that is, david, you go -- back -- i think you go back and say i saved you -- if i were campaigning today, i would say, it's friday. you know what? tomorrow you can go to your atm in the morning and take some cash out because of what i was willing to do. and guess what? i worked with the last republican president. he agrees with me.

and, again, if you're in dayton, ohio, say and on monday, you and your friends are going to be going back to the manufacturing plant that makes parts for the gm cars because of what i did and because of what george w. bush said he would have done. and you can talk about the things you did and then talk about how you're going to keep doing that in the future. that seems to be the positive message. >> and grow on it. >> david, gosh, they sure don't seem to be getting it. >> well, because i think the add on to that is also, hey, in a second obama term we're going to roll up our sleeves and work with business in a way to build on what's been done in this fledgling recovery in the private sector. instead of trying to fillet the argument and take down, you know, romney's record in private equity while still being a more pro business president. so i think you're right that in addition to talking about those aspects of the record, he's got to be this bridge to whatever the future economic vision is that's more sustainable over time that he wants to usher in. and we're not hearing a lot about who's going to be standing shoulder to shoulder with him

from, you know, the financial service industry or manufacturers or the like in building that -- in that part of his agenda. >> ed, there's still time. >> plenty of time. most americans haven't even focused. and what mike said, tuition. and joe is talking about things that they did. they've got a great story to tell on tuition. they eliminated the middle man on college loans, cutting down costs. increased grants. and he can say, i want to do more. i want to make it possible. >> and -- and republicans wanted to cut that. >> absolutely. >> which of course they were very stupid republicans in the stupid wing of our party. and mitt romney has -- but you tie romney to them. >> sure. >> that's what they want to do moving forward. do you want to take away pell grants? did you want detroit to go bankrupt? did you want the housing market to crash? did you want your bank's atms to run out of money? well, guess what? you have a choice in this election. >> yeah. i'm not sure they believe they

have a good story to tell. but i think they do. >> i know they do. >> and we always, mark mckinnon, it's always fun running against democrats because democrats always run away from what they do. >> absolutely. >> always. and ed rendell just said absolutely. john kerry ran away from so much of what he did in 2004. you run to it. it doesn't matter what you did. you run to your record, and you embrace it, you dare anybody to take you on. but i don't think -- i think ed's right. i don't think they believe they have got a good story to tell. or else they'd tell it. >> well, it's a challenging one. it's a difficult time. but there's a lot that's been done. and you're right. you can't say things are all screwed up, follow me. you have to talk about the record, what you've done. and by the way, given what a lot of the republican party has done over the last few years, i think the right strategy is to go after what the republican party has been standing for and tie mitt romney to that. and that seems to me like a more effective strategy. >> and what they've been able to get done, despite the republican party.

>> yeah. >> speaking of the story the democrats have to tell, what's mystifying to me is maybe they are so inundated with data in these focus groups they run out of chicago that they don't realize like the automobile industry, the supplier chain, the root of supplies to automobiles. you don't just have to go to michigan and northern indiana to do this. you can go to glass factories and chrome factories throughout the country and say, hey, the variety store down the corner would be out of business if the automobile industry went under. >> and david gregory, we have with us ed rendell, proving what a tough guy he is, because he somehow manages to put part of his book, which we're going to talk about, and i trust that you will have him on "meet the press" very soon -- >> yes. >> "a nation of wusses." but you're about to say -- >> the point you just made about democrats running away from stuff, stand and defend. stand and defend. we should have defended the health care bill in 2010. most of the things in the health care bill that went into law were things people loved.

but our guys ran from it, thinking somehow they could hide, and they got clobbered. >> you run from it you get clobbered. i tell the story time and again, 1996, we cut medicare. to save medicare, republicans that ran from it got killed. i decided that's all i was going to talk about. and i had something like 75% approval rating among senior citizens. my highest. run to it. just like i run to the tv set every sunday morning when i hear -- >> who do you have on "meet the press" this sunday, david? >> we're going to have a debate between governor deval patrick and john kasich about ohio. we'll test the romney message and his record in massachusetts against governor kasich and our political roundtable. and gene robinson, next week, the wisconsin recall, right? what do you think? >> it's a big story. >> it seems to be going scott walker's way. what does that mean for unions? >> well, look, it's tough.

unions really have put a lot of effort into this race. and it's uphill for them. it's not going to destroy the union movement, but it's going to be a setback if they don't get, you know, over this hurdle. and it's not looking great now, although their internal polls show a real tightening. so we're going to have to see. >> mark, final question. you didn't show your scarf today. why? >> out of respect for the white house. >> oh, wow. all right. gene, real quickly, your column in today's "washington post." what is it about? >> oh, it's about the donald. and the week's antics, i'm afraid. >> you sound tired. >> yes. >> send him a christmas present. >> we all do it every once in a while. and as we all know, what's good for the goose is indeed for the gander. sauce. ok.

nbc's chuck todd is here in new york. we'll talk to him coming up. also, former presidential candidate buddy roemer about the future of third party politics. he was working the phone in the hall when i was out there. >> well, buddy is always working, man. your watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." 26 past the hour. joining us now on the set, former governor of louisiana and now former presidential candidate, having suspended his campaign just this week, buddy roemer. >> just suspended it. he didn't end it. >> no, it's not over, is it? >> it's ended. >> oh, come on, buddy. >> come on, buddy. >> buddy! >> just tap dancing. >> buddy, were you just doing a

radio interview? you were working it in the hall like somebody who was running. >> when you saw me in the hall i was in boston on the radio. i love boston. >> see, it's not suspended. >> well, the issue is not suspended. the campaign is. but the issue is alive, you see it every day. money in politics is eating us alive. >> yeah. and you know what? keep the platform. we need to hear it. also at the table, nbc news chief white house correspondent, political director, and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. chuck, tell buddy to stay in the game. >> look, i believe more -- >> come on. >> no, what's interesting is the country is hungry. they are not liking the idea that they are stuck with two choices. there is an opening there. somebody could fill it. >> three weeks ago there was a national poll by the democracy group. they do one a month. i had 7%. i was only known by 15% of america. there are people that are hungry for change, real change. and it starts with money. you know, you were talking earlier about romney and obama.

i used to be a campaign manager. that's what got me started. handling ne'er do well politicians and getting them elected. these guys when they get through the bs will come down to defining the two issues. romney ought to be about jobs, every day, all the time, obama about justice. this country is not fair, and you're getting a rare deal. to me, this campaign is about something else, joe. it's about the fact that first in line is the guy with the biggest check. and everybody else is last. it's not right. >> and that's the truth. >> we have said it here. i think you have had the address, the message, that addresses what americans want to hear in 2012. better than anybody else. >> but you've got to be on the stage. 23 nationally televised republican debates. i was not invited to a single one. >> you also need money. >> yeah. but you don't get the money, joe, until you get on the national stage.

joe, if you decide to run for president, and you're not going to take a big check, and you're not going to take -- >> well, just stop right there. because you know what? >> no. let me give you the numbers. >> but listen, if i am going to get into the game, i'm going to get into the game to win, and the thing is, it frustrates me about you, buddy, i know there are billionaires out there that would have written you big checks. >> sure. >> i know there are people that have lots of money that love their country, buddy. >> i can raise money. >> but it wouldn't be clean, joe. >> you don't take a knife to a gun fight? you took a knife to a gun fight, my man. >> i have run for office and then had to serve. there's a difficult transition. i wanted to run for president the same way i would serve. and that's free to lead. i made a conscious decision to try to get 3 million people to give me $100. joe, with $300 million, i can be president of the united states. and be free to lead when i win. i was thinking beyond the election.

>> and you think if you get on the stage in those presidential debates, you can get those people? >> i got a shot. i watched herman cain. i watched steve perry -- rick perry. i lost his name, i apologize. >> i love that you went to the journey lead singer as a mistake. >> pretty impressive. >> that says something about him. >> shows my heart. >> don't stop believing. >> chuck, you might know the answer to this. why did they disqualify you, a former governor, and let herman cain into the debate? >> well, nothing against herman cain. he did a good job. but i'm the only guy running who was a congressman and a governor. >> right. why would they disqualify him from being in the debates? >> it was -- everybody used a poll decision. everybody used based on national polls. >> at that time, was herman cain polling at all? >> he was polling very high. >> i was ahead of rick santorum, jon huntsman, when they were let in the debate. now, chuck, something goes deep here. i don't know whether it's the

media decision or a party decision. but this is a big money game. >> we used the same -- look, there is no perfect way of doing this. >> no. there isn't. >> and the way we did it, the first debate we did was at the reagan library. that was as much based on polls, who was in the race, and invitations from nancy reagan. >> and i had been out of politics for 20 years. i had no standing in the national polls. no one knew me. i thought my issue deserved a look at. and i thought my credentials and my political life were worthy of an early inclusion. look, put roamemer on for a coue of debates. he won't last. watch me. but these elections are decided on who gets the chance to be known. and joe, your point, it's a good point, you represent the skepticism of the political insight. >> well, thank you. i appreciate that very much. >> here's what you said.

roe roemer, you can't win that way so i'm not credible. i can if i get a stage. i'm telling you, people are hungry to take the big money out of politics. watch it. >> you heard it here. >> you heard it with me. >> so, chuck, we were talking about romney's message. >> yeah. >> and obama's message. and i don't think i can ever remember surrogates, high-powered surrogates -- >> yeah, that was weird yesterday. >> attacking a president -- the heart of a president's message more than bill clinton, deval patrick, cory booker. >> bill clinton is off message, that never happens. >> yeah. >> the obama white house. >> let's go through them. >> it's not like democrats haven't been put on alert since cory booker. there's a problem. he could have asked -- >> yeah. >> they want to send a message. every one of these democrats want to send a message we're not anti-business like the president is. >> it does seem that way.

it's odd that it was bill clinton. and you know -- i know, trust me, how the west wing is feeling this morning. and they are just, you know, and that lovely relationship which is a very, very -- >> complicated one. >> well, democrats can't talk about jobs. the republicans can't talk about justice. and neither one of them can talk to the issue of money. they are hooked at the bill fold, chuck. >> i want to say something about yesterday. yesterday i think both campaigns are happy that the john edwards verdict came out. yesterday i thought the campaigns were just silly. >> weird on both sides. >> axelrod doing a ridiculous event. >> makes no sense. >> and then the secretive bus trip to solyndra. it was like low grade student council politics yesterday. that's what yesterday felt like it. >> and then the mitt romney and the protesters. >> the whole thing felt low ball. >> do you know who the biggest party in america is? independents. 42%. these major parties are going downhill. not uphill this country is going to change with social media, with all of these choices.

it's going to extend to the parties. watch what i'm telling you. >> chuck, i'm just dumbfounded that a republican presidential nominee would brag about sending protesters to blow bubbles at -- at his opponent's rally. i'm dumbfounded. >> this confrontational tone that the romney campaign is embracing is a decision they have made. and i think they have made it. it keeps rush limbaugh happy. it keeps the tea party folks happy. there's a great piece about this actually in "buzz feed," the ben smith deal that he does. it's a smart piece about how this has been one way that romney has won over conservatives. that they like the fact that he is not going to back down, that he didn't get bullied by us in the mainstream media to denounce donald trump. that he is standing up. now, i not skeptical that

confrontatifro confrontational tones like this will play well with voters in the fall. that's my scekepticism on this. but it plays well in the twitterverse, in the blogs, in the base, because everybody wants to have one of these brawls. >> and you talk about donald trump. ed, there's a reason why donald trump jumped to the top of the republican -- it had nothing to do with the birther stuff. maybe something to do with it. maybe there are some nuts out there that support him there. but republicans like the fact that trump unapologetically -- >> not all republicans. remember, it's only a small segment. >> but donald trump in the spring was ahead of the whole pack, and i guess this goes back to what romney is doing, proving he can get in president obama's face. maybe that's what this is about. >> but the weakness of that strategy is that the people that chuck accurately describes it's aimed at, they're voting against barack obama no matter what. >> broken glass. >> they are walking on hot coals. so appeal to the people who

think this through. >> and in a campaign, don't play to people. i don't know. >> buddy roemer, i -- >> i think edsaid it ear said i joe. people don't connect to this campaign. as a campaign manager, i can tell you, at the end of the day you're going to focus where your base is and where your heart is. for democrats, it's justice. for republicans, it's jobs. and they're both hurt by the fact that they are bought. >> you know where my heart is? >> where. >> president buddy roemer. i'm going to drag you back into the race. i'm going to give five of my biggest billionaire friends and give you money whether you like it or not. sorry, charlie. you're great, buddy. we love you, buddy. >> there's a better way, joe. there's a better way, mika. there's a better way. >> see, joe? >> free to lead. >> i hear bunny melon is looking for a new candidate. >> oh, god. >> can i go there? too soon? >> don't go there.

>> as steven perry said, don't stop believing, man. don't stop believing. >> way too soon. buddy roemer, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> we love you. >> you're always wonderful to me. coming up next, the upcoming jobs report. we'll ask bloomberg business week's josh green about the challenges facing the long-term unemployed. keep it right here on "morning joe." also, get a free flight. you know that comes with a private island? really? no. it comes with a hat. see, airline credit cards promise flights for 25,000 miles, but... [ man ] there's never any seats for 25,000 miles. frustrating, isn't it? but that won't happen with the capital one venture card. you can book any airline, anytime. hey, i just said that. after all, isn't traveling hard enough? ow! [ male announcer ] to get the flights you want, sign up for a venture card at capitalone.com.

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up next, we'll ask ed gillespie about mitt romney taking credit for sending hecklers to a obama rally. more "morning joe" in just a moment. so you brushed with colgate total and you didn't.

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i think it will affect some people who relate well to businessmen. and i think he had a good business career. there's a lot of controversy about that. but, listen, if you go in and you try to save a failing company, and you and i have friends here who invest in

companies, you can invest in a company, run up the debt, loot it, sell off the assets, and force all the people to lose their retirement and fire them. or you can go into a company, have cutbacks, try to make it more productive with the purpose of saving it. and when you try, like anything else you try, you don't always succeed. not every movie you made was a smash hit. >> that's for sure. >> i don't think that we ought to get into the position where we say this is bad work. this is good work. there's no question that in terms of getting up and going to the office and, you know, basically performing the essential functions of the office, a man who has been governor and had a sterling business career crosses the qualification threshold. >> is he doing the work for our next guest? joining us now from boston, senior adviser -- >> let's see if fred is still in the chair or if he went home. why is he there?

just go home for the weekend. >> senior adviser for the obama campaign, ed gillespie. we can just get bill clinton. >> and you can go home for the weekend. first question is, what is harvey weinstein doing? why is he filling in? >> what's going on there? harvey. maybe he should come co-host here too. what's going on? >> i guess so. ed, it is good to have you here. we're going to get to one of the more curious things that happened yesterday with mitt romney. but first, my gosh, you have got to hope that the democrats continue this intermural fighting. it's been going on. it started with cory booker. and yesterday, deval patrick on our show. >> yeah, yeah. >> ed rendell. >> they are trying to switch it to massachusetts. >> and now bill clinton. it's a fascinating development, isn't it? >> well, joe, i think they are trying to warn the president to a certain extent. i think they are trying to help him because they realize that this attack in trying to undercut what is a real strength

for governor romney, which is his success in the private sector, i think most voters see that as beneficial for the white house, they are reinforcing -- president obama and his campaign are reinforcing the idea that he is hostile to job creators and private investment. and i think they are right to waive him off of that, but i don't think it will right. i think he'll continue down that path and double down on it, which is fine from where i sit. we'll continue to highlight the fact that it's not just his rhetoric but his policies that are hostile to job creation in this country. >> yesterday, ed, governor romney gave an interview to cbs and he gave the president an f on foreign policy. and what i've been curious about is he will say he disagrees with the foreign policy, and then on actually policy things you don't actually hear a difference in policy. syria, for instance. i don't understand the difference between governor romney's position on syria and president obama's.

i mean, where are they different on this issue of syria, other than maybe they would use different words in their rhetoric? is that the real distinction here? >> well, as i'm sure you know, governor romney has called for arming the syrian opposition and the rebels there. and the fact is that -- >> no, but he didn't call for -- but then he backtracked and said he didn't want the united states doing it. he was supportive of others doing it, which is the u.s. policy, is it not? >> i don't know if that's the u.s. policy, to be honest with you. i have not really heard president obama articulate a u.s. policy. i think it's another instance where we are leading from behind. and that is a clear distinction i think and a difference. if you look at the posture towards israel, i believe this administration has been more hostile to israel, which is our strongest ally in the middle east than pretty much any of its predecessors. and governor romney would put us back on track for a positive relationship with israel. i think we could be doing more to contain iran, and i think a lot of people agree with that. and i think when you look at russia and the relationship with russia, the so-call reset

button, it's clear that the russians are not being helpful at all to the united states, and that that effort to reset has failed. and has been a major disappointment in terms of china if you look at -- >> are you saying get more confrontational with russia? is that the difference? how do you do that? >> well, i think what it is, chuck, is to try to work with them to align our interests more, and to reduce their hostility, which this president has not been able to do. clearly, despite his pledges during the campaign and afterward that we were going to have this great relationship and russia was going to be better with russia. it is not better with russia today than it was when president obama took office. do you think it's better today, the relationship with russia, than when president obama took office? >> no, i don't. but what i'm saying how do you change it? is more confrontation better? >> i think that russia understands that when there's a strong president who can work with germany, our allies in

europe and france, you can get better results from are russia you have strong allies in europe. they'll respond to that. >> ed, let me ask you about the internals of the grading process. how it that the governor arrives on foreign policy when a huge element of the foreign policy, maybe the most critical element of the foreign policy is enough graded and maybe a more muscular version of the bush foreign policy with drones and covert operations. how is it that he gets an f? >> if you look at, mike, for example, our current ad talking about resetting the -- enforcing the trade policies in a way that would make trade with china more fair and, again, with israel, with russia, with the arab spring as governor romney said yesterday has become the arab winter. we have not done enough to help

foster democracy under this president and democracy movement in the middle east. the fact is if you look at the president having apparently to send a letter to poland for the offense to poland. we've alienated canada, world's friendliest border but we won't bring their oil down through the united states. i think when you look across the board and every region of the world, president obama has not been effective when it comes to american foreign policy. that's reduced our standing in the world. >> ed gillespie, we brought a star of a recent republican national committee ad to make you feel more at home. governor ed rendell. >> you don't think it's credible to give president obama an f on foreign policy. shouldn't mitt romney have given him some decent grades? >> governor -- >> satisfactory. >> governor, you may have -- he

led off the response to the question by giving president obama credit for the killing of osama bin laden. the f wasn't just for foreign policy, also noted there is an f for domestic policy and happy to talk about foreign policy this morning. >> nobody believes in their heart an f in everything. >> we'll let the voters decide that in november. the fact is -- >> you don't really believe that, ed. >> i do believe that. >> no, you don't. >> i'm looking right into the camera and saying i believe it. >> what kind of question is that? >> you don't have to believe me. that's fine, that's your p prerogative. >> protecting national security interest. >> back to your corner, ed. >> come on, you don't believe it. >> i also believe he gets an f in domestic policy, as well. the fact is, when you look at the economy, which i think most voters are most focused on today

and when you look at what happens matters to you most? it is jobs and the economy and this president has been hostile to job creators and the keystone pipeline not only alienates our friends in canadas but makes us more reliant on foreign sources of oil. the mandate in the health care bill costs $850,000. the fact is this president's policies are hostile to private investment and that's why you hear these attacks from him all the time on private investments. >> let's end with the sort of, we've all been asking questions, mckinnon and those of us involved in politics before have been asking questions, why would you have your candidate go out and admit he shipped protesters to your opponents' speech? don't do that. don't do that! >> we didn't have to ship protesters. the fact is, i suspect if i went

and stood on city hall in chicago, obama supporters might show up at my event. >> they might. but obama wouldn't admit it. >> this governor, governor romney had a great record here in massachusetts. easy for people to come out and appreciate the fact that he brought unemployment down to 4.7%. fostered 40,000 jobs created in massachusetts and the average income rose by $5,500 as opposed to president obama where unemployment has gone up by 0.5% and the median income has gone down and where 570,000 americans have lost their jobs. so, it was easy to get folks to say, we support governor romney in this state. >> so they're yelling in my ear, have you been converted to being a red sox fan yet? >> no, that hasn't happened and i don't think it's going to happen. >> oh, come on. come on, ed. ed gillespie. thank you so much. chuck, thank you, as well. we'll see you at 9:00.

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still ahead ed rendell reveals what's behind his new book "a nation of wusses." ♪ how are things on the west coast? ♪ ♪ i hear you...

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good friday morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." live look at the space shuttle "enterprise" at jfk airport. it is headed to the "intrepid" tomorrow. back with us on set, mike barn cell and ed rendell. ed is out with a new book. "a nation of wusses." how america's leaders lost the guts to make us great. we're going to talk about that.

we really are a nation of wusses when you look at the campaigns over the past couple of days. >> can i just read one. sean hannity, charlie manuel our good friend, chris matthews quae writes "rendell writes with hogueies on his breath." >> that's one way to do it. >> explain the title, though. people may not know the back story. >> please. >> first i have to say, when i started out my agent told me, read joe scarborough's book, your first book. >> you would be the second person to do that. >> stop it, that's not true. he said read joe's book, this is the way you write a book. i think i violated everything you did. >> very good. >> this started out when the -- i have since i was mayor i had a

post-game commentary after every eagles' game. the eagles' canceled the football game in december of 2010 because 11 inches of snow were forecast. my station called me and said, do you want to comment? i said, i can't believe it. tom hanks said there is no crying in baseball. there's no canceling football games for bad weather. play the game. play the game. if people want to come down, if will. if not, they'll stay home and watch it on television. play the game. it's what football is all about. we've become wusses. this is just further evidence of the wussification of america. nothing i did in office got as much coverage as that. they covered it in china and beijing because i said, if it was china, 65,000 chinese would have walked to the game doing advance calculus and that was published in beijing and shanghai newspapers. it is a metaphor for i believe

the country has lost the ability to do big things. we lost the ability to take risks. >> why? >> because i think we're afraid of our political basis. as the polarization occurred, everyone's afraid. we talk about every day on this show, i'm not on, i watch. we talk about how republicans are scared to admit we have to raise revenue and democrats are scared to admit that we have to do something about entitlements. they're just afraid. >> politicians are afraid. not the people. >> the people are way ahead of the politicians. my first year as governor i was handled a $2.4 billion deficit by the outgoing governor. i wanted to do something about early childhood. i engineered the second highest tax increase in pennsylvania history, in my first year. most governors wait until their second term when they're term limited. people said, you can't win. you can't do that and win in the modern age. four years later i got re-elected by 21 percentage points. >> we now, though, wouldn't you

agree have politicians who are afraid of tweeters, who are afraid of bloggers, who are afraid of focus group information. they are afraid of the very people they go to to ask for their support every two years and it's a constant campaign. >> we couldn't do gun control. to limit the amount of bullets you have in a magazine clip to 11, which it used to be under the assault weapons bill. after gabby gifford, that guy had 32 rounds. i give him high marks for standing up for what he believed in it, he brought the family from phoenix and the intern to the state of the union speech and never mentioned it and didn't support the bills that had been put in, even though the american people, the polls show 70% of us thought limiting to 11 bullets would have been just fine. >> you brought up two liberal examples of raising taxes and

gun control, but, obviously, it goes the other way, as well, which is, have the guts to say that we're spending more money on education than any country on the planet per student, but the unions are getting in the way. >> i use that as an example. >> or medicare is going bankrupt. have the guts to cut medicare to save medicare. >> us democrats believe seniors will go nuts. you use the example of your own campaign all the time. seniors, if you talk to them intelligently and say, look, medicare was passed at a time when the life expectancy was 70. the life expectancy reached 75, it reached 85 years. it was never designed to cover that many years. >> life expectancy is only going to go up and the number of people on medicare and social security only going to go up. >> you talk about raising the retirement age and you get, speak of pelosi who i like, i

admire, goes crazy. i mean, just insane. school choice. vouchers. you know, the left goes crazy when you mention the word vouchers. it's inequitable system right now. >> everyone is literally afraid of doing anything and like we talked about earlier in sh though, defend. our guys stand away from it. >> very frustrating the level of the game at this point. you write to scott walker in the book and scott walker wannabes the recall election next week, which looks like he'll win. which will send an important message, why do you think we're wrong? >> not collective bargaining that creates the problems but governors and mayors who folded in the face of the unions because you could win collective bargaining. the people are on your side if you make a case.

look, my guys had 14 paid holidays when i became mayor of philadelphia. they had five day off and what that meant is we had to pay double time to everyone who worked on flag day. i used to go around the city and say for the emotional trauma of being away from your family on flag day, our prison guards and our police got double time. the average worker in philadelphia had seven paid holidays. they understand that. take your case to the people. >> chris christie, by the way, here's a great example of a guy on the other side, chris christie, republican, has been nothing but tough and, yet, you talk about collective bargaining and he didn't try to do away with it. he sits down and negotiates and negotiates tough deals. >> that was the message to scott walker and the scott walker wannabes, you can do that. chris christie is a good example. >> speaking of having guts and i know you certainly oppose scott walker, but, also, we saw before the whole recall mess scott walker coming back on the show

and saying, you know what, i should have listened to people more. i made a mistake, i screwed up, that shows a toughness, too, that you don't hear. i hate politicians when they're asked, what mistake. george bush was asked after four years, what mistakes have you made? i can't think of any. when scott walker comes out and says, i messed up. i should have listened first and i won't make that mistake, again. you sit there and, go, hey, the guy is comfortable in his own skin. >> at that point not raising the victory flag. they accomplished a lot of what they wanted to accomplish and declare victory and don't get an election that is divisive and have an influence on the presidential election. we made a mistake doing that. >> i think part of the reason chris christie has grabbed so much attention is also because he's a character. he speaks his mind, he's honest. you were the same way when you were in office. it feels like we don't see as much of that any more. worried about what the reactions are going to be.

are they angering the base and is there a danger in being chris christie and ed rendell. >> you are going to say something that will tick people off. right when hillary conceded i was on cnn, that network that gets the bad ratings. i was on cnn -- >> what are you donald trump now? we don't do that. >> i'm kidding. >> we have great respect for our friends at cnn. >> have the obama folks talked to you about being vice president? it would bring everyone together and pennsylvania is a crucial sta? and i said, no, and if i was the presidential candidate i wouldn't want someone like me running for vice president. besides, i would be a balanced ticket. i wear a flag pin and he doesn't. that's when president obama doesn't have a flag pin. i got off the air at 2:30 and at

2:31 i got a call from david axelrod who said nobody in chicago thought that was funny. >> and did you say, nobody in philadelphia cares, david. >> i said, david, you guys have to have a sense of humor, you'll never make it to november. they never got a sense of humor and they made it just fine. >> i was on the air with ed in 2000, i guess, and it was the recount, a pivotal moment at the recount and i remember ed saying it was over. i guess we were on "hardball" and had six boxes like brady bunch and everybody got so angry at ed for saying the truth. everybody knew it was the truth. and they're like what in the world is the dnc giving up for? you're not giving up, you're just like, this is over. >> you know, joe, that is part of the reason for governor rendell's success. part of the reason why you

should read the book if you're aspiring to understand american life and he was mayor of philadelphia, governor of pennsylvania and when you do that, when you do both those jobs and you have people screaming at you for a stop sign down the end of the block, everything else is just going to roll right over you, you know. >> it's true. >> you have to understand if you're in public office, you're going to get beat up. it's part of the job. it's like a coal miner dealing with dust, it's part of the job. you have to understand it, you have to roll it with it and you can't let it affect you. >> i want to go back to something willy said. you asked if there was a risk of being a character, by being a character, being yourself like chris or like you or like tip o'neill or barry goldwater and i always found not being a wuss, being yourself. i remember one time i was on the air and some people were just, i

thought, saying some extraordinarily unfair things about me and i swore on there. i said you're full of something. seemed like they never heard it before. i hung up, i didn't care. because that's who i was at that moment. and the thing is, it's a lot easier doing it that way. be yourself. if they don't like me, they don't have to vote for me. it's actually being a wuss puts you in a box where you're trying to be something that you're not. >> and my dad, i talk about my dad in the introduction died when i was 14 and people say how lucky for me, i was lucky because i had him long enough to give me my values. he was never in politics and he said fdr is the most politician in my lifetime and a third of the people hated his guts. hates his guts. fdr never flinched. never flinched.

he did what he believed in. we can do it. the thing that is so frustrating, we can do it. tom coburn who i probably disagree with on 80% of the issues, but he's a great guy because he had the guts to face down grover norquist and say, grover, you're full of it. we have to do something to raise revenue and eliminating loopholes is not increasing taxes. there are people out there who want to make this work. whether it's president obama or governor romney, the next president has to lead and get everybody together and say, let's go. let's do the tough things and let's make everybody unhappy and turn the country around. i still think it can be done, but we have a very short window to get it done. >> all right, the book is "a nation of wusses." how america's leaders lost the guts to make us great. ed rendell, thank you so much. stay with us. we're just minutes away from the new monthly unemployment report. we'll bring in josh green to dig

into those numbers and, next, pbs medical correspondent dr. emily senay six years after adopting an individual mandate. also political analyst richard wolffe and, first, your weekend forecast with todd santos. >> get you started off with the weekend forecast. starting off today the unofficial start for the weekend. potent showers and thunderstorms d.c. through eastern virginia, maryland. make sure you have a way to get your warnings and more thunderstorms likely to pop up and hail and wind and even some isolated tornados and a quick look into tomorrow. showers and thunderstorms getting going around boston and new york looking on the better side of things and by sunday a slight chance for some showers to push in from the northwest and coastal lows should keep boston, as well as southeastern mass into some of those showers the next couple of days. there's a look at some of the

showers. back down through portions of the appalachians and the mid-atlantic some clear skies here and there. if you're in the yellow zone, the storm prediction center and make sure you have a way to get your warnings. dr. forbes from the weather channel giving some of these areas a four on the tornado conditions index. we'll keep a close out there for that. for now, we'll send it out to a break. we're at the legendary southfork ranch in dallas for a cookout with world champion grill master brett gallaway. he's serving his guests walmart choice premium steak. but they don't know it yet. they will. it's a steakover! the steak is excellent. very tender... melts in your mouth...

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>> i wouldn't go to a doctor. i would go there on an extreme when i was almost dead and a neighbor would call and pick me up like a wet towel and take me away in an ambulance and live in the hospital for a couple weeks. >> he treated his own fingers that had been broken on the job. >> i just tape one finger to the other and mobilize it and let it do its healing thing but then you see it doesn't heal correctly. >> would you say your health is better since reform? >> my health is better. i have kaunsh yenshs, world class health care. >> on the future of health care. that shows medical correspondent emily senay traveled to massachusetts to figure out how

their health care system is working. six years after adopting its individual mandate. dr. senay joi us along with richard wolffe. richard, emily, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> emily, how's it doing up there? what do the people of massachusetts think of mitt romney's individual mandate? >> you know, they like it. it worked. the people in massachusetts, if you go there and talk to them, by and large, very much in favor of the law. the polls show pretty clearly that somewhere between 60% and 75% of people approve of romney care. when you parse out individual mandate, it's not quite as high. >> right. >> but if you are just using what the law intended to do as your yard stick for whether or not it worked, it worked. >> which is -- what did it do and what did it succeed? >> two things. very simply the law was intended to make sure that everybody in the state of massachusetts had health insurance. number two, the way to get there was to sort of share the risks,

share the responsibility. >> let's start with number one. what do you have? 95%, 96% of people with health insurance? >> probably 98% of people in massachusetts. absolutely amazing. somewhere between 88% to 90% of people were insured prior to the law and now you're almost up at 98%. >> what does that mean for the landscape, the health care landscape up there? does that mean that when i walk into an emergency room in boston, i'm not seeing indegent patients use the emergency room as sort of primary care? >> yeah. it's interesting you mention that and we talk about that in the piece a little bit. people are in the system, they're getting care. has that been perfect? no. are there enough primary care doctors in massachusetts? no, there's not enough anywhere in the country. right after the law was passed, a tremendous influx of pishes. a period of adjustment when the

system was overwhelmed. they worked that out and they continue to work that out. so, these people are now in the system and many of them are getting routine care. it's not perfect. >> let's go to the conservative critique. conservatives like myself are concerned about a national health care system that will cause prices to go up for employers, which will mean small businesses may hire fewer people and mean that larger corporations dump people off their health care roles. what's happening in massachusetts? >> employer-sponsored health care. the number of people getting insurance through their employers went up in massachusetts. that didn't happen. in fact, we talked to a few young guys, internet entrepreneurs who actually came to massachusetts because they knew they could get access to health care there. so, those fears that have been much talked about in terms of the national plan haven't been seen in the massachusetts experience at all. is it a perfect template for

what will happen nationally? no. is it a perfect predictor? no. those things haven't happened. >> let's show a clip with a small business owner that talks about how they're impacted by the health care law. take a look. >> reporter: dave ratner owns a small chain of pet supply stores in massachusetts. he's been in business for more than 30 years and always offered his full-time employees health insurance, but these days he says that's getting much tougher to do. >> we have my monthly check to my health care provider. $9,996 every month. over the last few years, dave's insurance premiums have risen steadily. sometimes by double digits in a single year. >> so, when i look to say, do i need another employee, i have to figure out how much extra is it going to cost me per hour for the health insurance, right? well, aren't i just better off giving a regular employee more

hours even if i have to pay them overtime? i am way better off. >> that would be the complaint about the entire thing. >> the overall cost of health care in massachusetts. it's not the highest any more, but that problem is everywhere. it's not just massachusetts. health care is very expensive. that's why we also get into this in the piece, the governor of massachusetts duval patrick has become incredibly aggressive about getting health care costs under control. when the law was originally passed, it didn't touch that issue. it didn't seek to reduce the cost of health care. now, they're really digging into that in massachusetts. they are holding down insurance premiums. the governor can do that there and they're really trying to look at new ways to pay doctors so that we can save money and that's the next revolution that's going on in massachusetts and, actually, it's going to go on everywhere. >> richard wolffe, very

exciting, very exciting for mitt romney because he comes up with a plan that works. this plan romney care, sounds like one of the most unqualified successes that we've had probably in the past decade of governance and i know that he has to be proud of it. his team has to be proud of it. >> it's complicated. >> it's got to be the centerpiece of the campaign. >> that's how twisted politics is. you know, here's something, it's a real achievement. >> a real accomplishment. >> looking back on it, if you were reasonable about it, this is a muddle for the whole country. that's precisely what he doesn't say. the successes means it cannot be translated. look, the dynamic of primaries can twist that in all sorts of different ways but you have a candidate here who actually took a good approach to policy and it was a bunch of private sector reforms. let's face it, what this model became for the obama administration was sector reforms.

the idea that you can bring down medicare costs through this weird group called the independent payment advisory board. that thing became, you know, they're going to take your medicare away from you. this debate has spun out of control, even faster than health care costs. >> i don't understand why he doesn't say, i don't believe in it federally and run straight into it and say, this works. he can't do it because of the individual mandate. >> as the obama campaign spends, as they promise to do, the next five monthsalking about the record in massachusetts. you would think even the folks in chicago -- >> joe, you say you can't do it because of the individual mandate. >> he did. in fact, his official portrait. in the governor's office, he's sitting on the desk, it's a painting and there on the desk is a copy of the bill. that was considered his signature achievement. if you ask people in massachusetts, they will tell you that they saw what he did as real leadership, as a real, as a

gifted moment, if you will, in bringing together district groups. it was a bipartisan bill and from insurance and what he did was considered a remarkable achievement. >> if the romney campaign won't make it the centerpiece, the obama campaign will. we had duval patrick on yesterday and he interrupt eed answer to another question. >> he went there. >> he said -- >> he said we need to give governor romney credit for a great success. he created, as you say, a successful health care system here in the state of massachusetts and not only that, but he laid the ground work for president obama's health care. and we're grateful for that and he ought to be applauded for it. >> those candidates seem almost hand strung by some of their most significant accomplishments because president obama, it seems like he can't talk about saving the car industry and the different things that happened

in his president daes because -- >> they want to talk about bain capital instead of saying i saved detroit, i saved ohio, which also saved illinois and indiana. i, you know, i did this, also, with george -- health care. the president is running away from his health care plan. >> the thing he risked his presidency on. there is something incredibly gutsy about that move. when you have david axelrod and rahm emanuel saying, drop it. you're going to lose this and lose your presidency and he got it through. that's a signature character moment. >> but he runs from it. >> if you look at what happened in 2004 with president bush, it didn't matter, it didn't matter, but for the campaign it didn't matter that iraq is going out of control and he says this is his moment of strength. he did the gutsy thing. at some point chicago will have

to say, we know the economy isn't great, but we have to have the guts to talk about what we've done. it's not just about the bailout. if we are saying the economy is getting better, do people think we're out of touch? i think the same is true on health care. >> no doubt about it. so, tonight -- >> a lot going on. >> we're going to learn. we're going to learn. just how successful this was. >> need to know. >> i have to say, need to know is a great show and even better since they dropped john meacham. it's exploded, if you look at the numbers. >> no, beforehand, seriously, "need to know" series was like a public access show. it's like "american idol." you walk down the street and you see the wolworth's and all the tv sets. and you just sit there and watch "need to know." >> dr. senay, it's dr. emily to you. she came on the show and didn't

talk about, she just kept it like on politics. >> like dr. nancy talked about, digital exams. >> but she can. >> we can talk about that, if you'd like to. >> we don't do that. thank you for being here. this looks absolutely fantastic. i can't wait to watch it. up next, the may job's report. we'll be right back.

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breaking news. the may jobs report just came out and the numbers are not good. cnbc brian shactman. >> you guys have something to talk about here. 69,000 and private sector numbers 82. put it in context, the expectation was 169 you have 69 and private sector 82,000. the previous two months revised downward and the unemployment rate up to 8.2%. now, the participation rate went up which means more people entered the workforce but the headline readers do not care about that. because they're just going to see the headline. 69,000 is way down. stock futures down 200 and now down 179 points. any way you slice it, looks like

last summer all over again where we slowed down. we have greece, we have spain, we have italy. we have china slow down overnight and even mark zandy couldn't put a spin on it. this is just a bad, bad number. >> richard, we were looking at the number before we came back on the air and collective growns around the set. >> our own newsroom was just shocked. >> look, bad for the politics and bad for the people who can't get work. that's what these numbers represent. you know, the markets are, obviously, going to tank. but, you know, the world economy was looking for growth here at this point. if you want to do the politics at this point, ronald reagan, we saw a big slide in unemployment as he was approaching re-election. it ticked up this time of year in '84. >> did it? >> let's see where the trend goes. the election isn't next month. so, you know, the trend is more important here. but, really, a tragedy for

people out there who are still looking for work. >> no doubt about it. >> senior national correspondent for bloomberg business week joshua green joins us from washington, as well. i think brian just gave us the numbers. long-term unemployment, one of the biggest challenges here in trying to deal with the problem. >> that's right, our cover package this week follows 12 of the long-term unemployed and those are people out of work for six months or more. one of the really bad news items in today's job numbers, we added 300,000 more long-term unemploys. so, this is, this is a terrible problem. but what our cover story did was to take 12 people. we found 12 people who had been long-term unemployed and managed to return to the workforce and we sent photographers and reporters out with them to basically track and tell their stories on what they had to endure and how they got back,

how they found a job and it's really a searing cover package that walks through, you know, people from their 20s to their 60s and what they had to go through. >> yeah. >> and, brian, that is, that is one of the great tragedies of this recession. the long-term unemployment. and it's -- >> not so young. >> it's causing great challenges for people. >> workers in their 40s and 50s and wondering if they're ever going to find a job. >> joe and mika, it's a stigma. people going to these interview physical they've been out of work a year, honestly, it's a self esteem issue, even someone who is 50 years old. the people who interview them judge them negatively. they would have rather hire somebody who has a job and they say why have you been out of work a year? they judge it and it makes it more difficult. i do want to just share with you a few quick numbers why i have the time.

service sector is still the strongest here and manufacturing did grow at 12,000 and construction, we talk about getting the middle class up and going lost 28,000, that was the biggest hit for the month. >> josh, your cover issue couldn't be better time. these numbers back to work, how hard it is t leave the ranks of the long-term unemployed stories of heart ache, triumph for many that triumph is hard to come by. >> it is. certain consistent themes that come through in these 12 stories. the first one basically is when you are long-term unemployed there is just a crushing loss of identity. all of these people, most of them did not expect to get laid off and thought they would find jobs in short order and didn't. we have an example of a woman who was a scientist and took work as a zumba instructor in an exercise class. we had a 50-year-old woman in

florida, a payroll assistant who had to move back in with her elderly parents and finally found work. but all of these people struggle both psychologically in terms of identity but also in term of the financial strain. the one other consistent thing we found, they struggle with health care. that a lot of these people would run out their cobra benefits and lose health insurance and that's a terrifying thing, especially if you're older and especially if you have health problems. >> so, richard, we have been saying all morning the president needs to run to his successes, whether they're popular or not. the bank bailout, the auto bailout, health care reform. the only problem with that is -- >> jobs. >> if you're bragging about all the things you have done, which i think a candidate has to do. these numbers keep getting worse and even the past couple of months, the participation rate has been, you know, record lows. so, how does the president thread that needle? >> well, it's bad, but the conversation we've just had also

sets aside what he came into office with. when you're losing 800,000 jobs a month. it's kind of hard to believe. we didn't know where the bottom was and the stock market bottomed out in march of his first year. you look at that record, they do have a story to tell. never going to be a real morning in america, that's what they want to go for, but they're held back. >> governor, how do you tell that story? >> i think richard's right. two-thirds of americans believe the problems were inherited and i think they can rely on that a little bit, but they've got to talk about the future. they've got to talk about, they just can't say we did a good job under the circumstances. that's okay. pivot and say what you want to do. construction down 28,000 jobs. joe and i and mika have been talking about that for years. let's get people back to work. let's get people back to construction and doing the things america needs. a sense of urgency and a sense of hope. we can do this, but we have to take chances and we have to take

risks. >> josh green, thank you. your story is the new issue of "bloomberg business week" and brian shactman. >> what are futures looking like right now, brian? >> down 170 and oil with 82 bucks and we have the ten-year treasury at 1.5%. re-fi that house for third time this year, if you want. >> brian, thanks. gentlemen, thanks very much. we're back in a moment. graduation, huh ?

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people. >> mike bost republican in murfaezboro went with the rare combination of chucking paper and quoting moses. >> elect somebody trying -- let my people go! >> it took place inside the same illinois state house where one year ago the senate minority leader invoked wu tang clan. >> get the money, dollar, dollar bill, y'all. >> a couple years before that rod blagojevich made his last stand before being impeached. >> what did i do to provide income for low-income families. >> 6-year-old lori anne madison

became the youngest competitor ever to compete in the scripps national spelling bee. >> hi. >> she nailed her first word, but then the panel decided to swiftly crush little lori anne's dreams by throwing at her a word of any age has ever heard of ever. i-n-g- -- >> that is incorrect. >> at least this didn't happen to her. >> oh, my gosh. >> and the number one story of the week -- >> mitt romney will be the republican party's presidential projected nominee. >> texas voters put mitt romney over the top in delegates. >> romney's rivals were right,

they always said it would come down to texas. >> he removed the word rezumpative but his coronation this week was overshadowed by the renewed public analysis from one romney supporter of 50-year-old hawaiian state documents. >> give me a name of somebody in a position of authority in hawaii who says -- give me a name. >> there are many people. i don't give names. >> donald, you're beginning to sound a little ridiculous. >> no, i think you are, wolf. if you would report it accurately, you'd get better ratings than what you are, which are pretty small. >> on the same day he shared the stage at a vegas fund-raiser with romney. >> a lot of people do not think it was an authentic certificate. >> how can you say that if the -- >> if you don't report it, wolf, but many people do not think it was authentic. >> president obama watched the spectacle with amusement while back at the white house hanging out with bob dylan, which as the

president learned, removes the shades for no man. >> i have to say i'm a really big fan. >> president obama in the white house giving the medal of freedom to bob dylan, a long way from his days in the state house down in springfield, illinois, listening to another unhinged rant from bost. >> come out here at the last second and i have to try to figure out how to vote for my people! we're back in a moment. with the capital one cash rewards card

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>> in 1814, dolly madison famously saved this portrait of the first george w. now, michelle, if anything happens, there's your man. i'm always pleased, mr. president, that when you are wandering these halls, as you wrestle with tough decisions, you'll now be able to gauge that this portrait and ask, what would george do? >> that's pretty good. >> that was good, good afternoon at the white house.

>> great afternoon. the amazing thing about president bush he's told the same jokes for eight years and still find them funny. >> they're still working. very good back and forth. a good moment where 43 was talking about 41. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today?

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welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today. >> if you're a politician in this country, you do not have to be a wuss. >> no, you don't. governor, what did you learn? >> i learned from the great piece emily with you guys people expect leaders to lead. when you do big things like mitt romney did with health care, people will respond to it. that should be a lesson to all of us. >> ed gillespie may be a great guy, but he met his match because he saw big governor telling him, you don't believe, it's really an f. >> that was quite an interview, governor. >> you don't believe that. yes, i do. >> dr. emily's piece is on pbs' "need to know" tonight. >> that's a great piece. no doubt about it. i learned you're very excited

about liverpool's new manager. >> my favorite team playing my favorite style of soccer. >> i love it. very good. willie, if it's too early, what time is it? >> we'll see you back here on monday. stick around right now for our man, chuck todd. >> right on time, guys. thanks. trending down. may's job's numbers grew. no where to hide on this one. a political stomach punch to the white house this morning. at the white house, partisanship was put aside for a presidential unveiling while on the campaign trail rallies and rancor both campaigns probably better off that their dueling stunts were overshadowed by some other news. that other news. the acquittal. a mistrial. could the john edwards' trial ended any more strangely? one thing we're sure about, the votes by the jury are the last vote