of one thing, which is that the intensity of the conservative side of politics is now stronger than the liberal side. it's a spanking because they made it that way. they raised the stakes. they made this a national campaign. all of the leadership, debbie wasserman schultz, the democratic party and the union leaders, all said that all roads lead through madison basically as it relates to the national campaign. now they can't reverse that. this was a national statement. >> good morning. it is thursday, june 7. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have with us mark halperin. >> hi, mika. >> are you all right? >> i am. >> why are you giggling? we also have a former adviser to the bush administration now advising the romney campaign, dan senor. >> we are laughing at a story in the "new york times." >> is that where we were?

>> we were giggling. >> i'm actually not laughing at that. >> no, you're not. but it reminds me, like willie and i last night, again, we are justing kn knocking down a pack marlboros at the holiday inn. >> the only holiday inn in new york that bloomberg allows you to smoke. >> it's called the willie carve out. and we got it. >> it was a big elaborate lobbying campaign. >> so we're over there, right? and suddenly willie, who has all of these devices, you know, he's like high tech guy. >> yeah. >> right? >> suddenly, and he reads an advance copy of "the new york times" today. >> uh-huh. >> and he breaks out in song. guess what he sings? "sitti "send in the clowns." and he goes, don't you love farce? i do too. and it's become farce with "the new york times." the story is "the candidate next

door." "the new york times" dispatched reporters to mitt romney's la jolla home, went around the neighborhood, found every democrat they could to trash mitt, and in fact admitted as much. >> well, ok. go ahead. >> admitted as much, saying that personal political animus contributed to some of the hateful stories. we were talking about ann's horse story. and i don't know if you know this, but i was like -- i was actually going up to vermont. i was going to live in vermont a couple of years ago. and the turn iptruck hit a bump, and i fell off the truck. this is the first election i have covered. so i don't remember. mark, maybe you can help me. did "the new york times" ever dispatch reporters to john kerry's homes? because john kerry is worth a lot more money, obviously, than mitt romney. like his georgetown home, was there ever a story on the georgetown home that you can recall? >> i don't recall that.

>> was there ever his massive, massive farm outside of pittsburgh, was there ever a story on that multimillion dollar estate? >> i think i would remember something like that. >> you would? ok. let me ask you. the beacon hill residence, which we have both seen and it's beautiful -- >> beautiful house. >> stunning. >> do you know how much that costs? >> it's a great piece of real estate. >> it cost more than this la jolla fixer-upper. i'm just curious, because the turnip truck didn't have newspapers on it. do you remember a story -- can we put that back up while i'm interrogating mr. halperin in 2004? what about the ski chalet in idaho? >> we did see wind surfing. to be fair. >> we did see wind surfing. and i like john kerry a lot. i'm not picking on john kerry. >> we saw john edwards' huge house. >> of course. but "the times" thought that was nouveau riche.

they thought had was untoward for a man to spend his money that way. >> it was 20,000 square feet or something. >> that's not how they do it in northeast harbor or the south of france. but the ski chalet then. maybe in sun valley. did they ever do a story on john kerry's ski chalet? >> i think there was a web graphic. >> i wonder is there still a public editor over at "the new york times"? >> there is, there is. you should get in touch. this issa i very good point. >> i'm just curious, has he taken up bowling over the past couple of months? because we have this with the rickets story that we all know is just a phone -- is phony journalism. it was put on the front page. we know that was phony journalism. and this is -- this is just -- it's embarrassing for "the times." "the times" acts as if we don't have something called the

internet. that we can't search this stuff and show side-by-side that they do something -- >> it's the d section of the front page. >> they do something on ann romney's horses. >> and it was big investigative journalism. >> it was an interesting article. >> it was woodward and bernstein. like a big investigative project. >> and the subtext, as fantastic mr. fox would say, what was the subtext here? the subtext was the romneys are rich. but they are not as rich as the kerrys are. the kerrys probably even wouldn't let him live on beacon hill because they are so much richer. and do you know how much i resent the kerrys for being rich? not at all. i know them both. i like them both. i have been to their place in nantucket. and when i was there and i looked around, i was like, boy, i wish i had this place. no resentment. i look up to it. i love wealth. i wish i had it. but i just fell off the

turnip truck a few years ago. don't feel bad for me. it will come to me. >> some of the neighbors said, i don't know why he moved here in the first place given his political views. that struck me as a little strange. you can't live next door to someone who has different ideas from you. >> that's like someone who yells at me on twitter when i say i love the beatles. or i quote a line from the sex pistols. you're a republican. you can't like music. you were against everything that john lennon stood for. well, i thought he stood for great music. i didn't know you had to be a leftist to love the greatest band in the world or a leftist to like sunshine in la jolla. and your favorite quote also, i think, alex, go ahead. the quote about if it were obama -- >> one woman says talking about the security measures, if this were obama, i'd probably be fine with it. >> oh, my gosh. >> this is mark halperin, the paper of record.

this is the newspaper that i love, that i read every day. it's got the best writing in the world. the best reporting in the world. but the public editor needs to step up and straight ep these people out. >> but, joe, this is the home section. >> we love the paper. we think it's one of the best papers in the world. probably the best. and they do tons of great work. >> they do tons of great work. >> but i am amazed that after what they did four years ago, when they made these kind of choices regarding the mccains and the obamas, front page stories about michelle and cindy mccain that couldn't have been more different, that they are doing it again. >> you are not even talking about -- and you're right. i thought what they did to cindy mccain versus michelle obama was shameful. i was embarrassed for the paper that i read every day, because i do think it's a newspaper of record and i love "the times." i feel lucky to be able to read it every day. i really do. and i know that upsets

conservatives. and that's why they matter enough to talk about them this way. because i love them. but it's like being let down by an elected leader that you love. >> what are you saying? they cannot do a critical piece or a piece that looks at something that's true? >> no. >> because i'll tell you -- >> mika, stop. >> they have done a lot of positive pieces on mccain and romney. front page. >> mika, we are just comparing here. >> ok. >> proportionality. >> well, why don't we look at the numbers? >> and just like you said, mark, you have the cindy mccain story. and then most shamefully you have the story where "the new york times" destroyed a young woman's life by putting out false allegations that were actually dredged up by an operative in another republican campaign that leaked to them. >> the lobbyist. >> yeah. remember the lobbyist? i won't mention her name. can you imagine being a young woman caught in "the new york times" personal vendetta against john mccain because they wanted to elect barack obama? can you imagine what she's lived

through every day for the past four years going to work? trying to work on the hill, going home on weekends to her family, having to call her parents. having to see friends at church. all because "the new york times" wanted to get at john mccain. and you know what? if it were ""the national enquirer"" and they were doing it to both candidates, i wouldn't say a word. i would say fair game. "the post" is "the post," but "the times" is "the times." mika, if you or anybody else out there can show me this type of spread from four years -- from eight years ago on john kerry and his massive accumulations, and on theresa heinz kerry, who has every right to live well, they have every right to live well. but so too do the romneys. and i say this -- i mean it. and i've talked to you, and

you've heard conservatives scream at me about defending "the times" as the best newspaper in the world. i say this because i love "the times." and i think they are embarrassing themselves. and i don't want to go through what we went through four years ago with them. and you remember four years ago. >> it was unbelievable. the disproportionate attention that certain mccain stories got were amazing. this is almost on a weekly basis now with "the times." if you go back over the last few weeks, the rickets piece, the huge front page piece on romney's -- >> let me just say for people that don't say, you work for the romney campaign. you don't work for, you're an adviser. >> i'm an adviser. but almost every week, there is a huge spread that digs deep into an issue that does not in any way seem central to the election in a way that it would justify the kind of real estate it is getting so prominently in the newspaper. it is stunning actually. and it really -- it is a double

standard. >> this is a fair story if it's proportion al to both sides. >> ok. can i just say one thing and then mark take it? look, he's building a house with a car elevator, a $12 million house. they have to shut down the street to do the work. there is a local story here. it's on the cover of d 1. i just want to put the story that you're using for the touchstone for this entire narrative -- >> but don't mischaracterize me if you're going to talk about it. ann romney on the front page with her horses? >> can i finish? >> yeah. >> because i read that piece as well. i thought it was -- i actually am not sure if it's necessarily a bad piece. unless you want to make that a bad piece about ann romney. it depends on how you want to look at it. i have gone riding with ann romney. i get a sense of the life she leads spending that time with her in the horse world. and it's fascinating. >> of course it's fascinating. >> it's a fascinating story. >> was it a front page story?

>> i agree, it wasn't. and i believe the narrative you're building has some legs. i would just tell you, though -- >> mika, to what you said about that, and then i'll let you finish, you know about what's happening at mitt romney's house in la jolla. you don't know -- you didn't even know until i told you, and nobody out there did, other than goobers like mark halperin who knows everything about politics -- >> and real estate. >> and real estate. you didn't know that john kerry had a ski chalet. >> yes, i did. >> in idaho. that he had a house in beacon hill. >> i've been there many times. just kidding. >> a farm outside of pittsburgh. a multimillion dollar place in georgetown. you didn't know that. because you know what? "the new york times" never went to his neighbors to find republicans to trash him. this is just like what you always say about reporters, "the times" sending everybody out to alaska but somehow overlooking chicago. >> but just please you don't -- you think the "new york times" had to scurry around digging for this? you really think they -- this

was hard to see, with people getting upset, the street being shut down, all sorts of filings being made in the town hall -- >> mika, they send a reporter out there every day. >> let me just ask you this. how smart is it for a candidate do make these decisions right now? does this make any sense to you? i'm just asking. >> i have nothing to say, mika. this is indefensible and you know it's indefensible. there's no proportionality here and you know it. >> so there's no story here? >> well, there's a story here it you're going to do the story when the other candidate. john kerry had far more holdings than mitt romney. >> it's not about holdings. this is about a construction project that is rankling a neighborhood, and there are things happening that are very clear in that neighborhood that might annoy some people. >> they only interviewed his democratic neighbors. how fascinating. you know what? i guess that was just a random sample. >> anytime someone is doing a renovation, you can go to someone's neighborhood and find neighbors that are annoyed. this is not a major "new york times" investigative piece. >> joe, you said on this show,

hello, you don't build a house with a car elevator when you're running for president in the world of the 1% versus the 99%. duh. you said that. you know that. i'm not saying this is completely fair. i'm not saying your narrative or your concern isn't necessarily true. but let's not overlook the obvious as well. i mean, this guy is building a massive mansion on the water with a car elevator. he is shutting down the street. people are watching this. it's going to cause a story. you know that. you're politically savvy. >> no. i have made my point. and you don't like the narrative. and so agree to disagree. >> mark, what did you have? >> i was just going to say, to put it in a larger context of the presidential campaign, two things republicans have been annoyed at and frustrated by for years. labor union power helping the democrats. and liberal media bias against republican candidates. one reason they are so excited about wisconsin is because it shows that the labor unions, they have labor unions on the

run to some extent in a lot of places. and the other thing about the liberal media bias, you've got mitt romney, ed gillespie, matt rhodes, they are as calm about liberal media bias as any republicans i know. they get it. they understand it. >> they don't talk about it. >> they understand what they are up against. they think they can work around it and still win. some past republicans have been psyched out by it, have been compbative about it. they will look at it and have the same analysis talked about here in this article, but it will not faze them. >> and even though i brought it up, if you're running and you're a republican, and dan knows this, you just know you factor that in before hand, that the newspaper hates you. that the newspaper is hostile to you. it was my case in pensacola. i knew every time that i ran, they would find, you know, dig up the craziest stories, write

the most horrible editorial. you factor that in. and you work around it. that's why, by the way, on a bigger scale, it's always fascinating to me that people like president obama and then president clinton, when they don't understand that the reporters come too willie. right after they raise their hands. at that point, the reporters go, oh, wait a second, we're journalists. and then they start hammering them and holding them accountable like they should. and then it's not the republicans that are shocked at that. because they have been through that. but when that happens to president obama, you know, president obama very bitter about the media. the clintons in '93, '94, '95, '96, they hated the media more than any republican. it comes as a shock. and i say this to young democrats who may be sworn in some day as the president of the united states, they'll give you a few ride in the campaign. but once you get sworn in, willie, that's when they start acting like reporters again. in my opinion. i don't speak for anybody at this table, just me. >> i think you're right. i have a piece for you from october 10, 2004.

in "the new york times." >> ok. >> it talks about how the perception of john kerry's elitism may hurt him in the election, which is four weeks away. it talks about his -- in winter, he goes helicopter skiing while staying at his wife's idaho retreat, a 15th century farmhouse transported from england and re-assembled in sun valley. in summer, he wind surfs and sails off the coast of nantucket. they have an 18th century townhouse in boston, where the kitchen is two-stories high. they have a personal staff of six, including caretakers and a cook. and it lays out some of the artwork he has, asking the question is he too elite to be elected president. >> he was doing his homework last night at the holiday inn. >> by the way, he is on the mailing list of "the new york times."

they send him emails. >> that is not a big spread. >> but the thing is, that's a good point and i'm glad it's out. again, as we have been -- >> would do you this if you were running for office? would you do this, dan? >> as we have been saying, it's proportionality. it's all about proportionality. >> it's not mitt romney's fault at all. >> if "the new york times" put this with this much position and none of us recall, then, you know what, we're wrong. >> i would say to mark's point, do you think that some of the missteps by the obama campaign over the last few weeks is reflective of the fact that they are not used to running with the press all over their case, which was the case last time? last time, they didn't have the press all over their case, as you said, because when you're running, the democratic candidate, they are sort of quietly rooting for you. and this time it's different. how much, mark, do you think that's contributed to them being off balance?

>> some. but i think they have adjusted to that over the last couple of years. as joe said, they have gotten tougher coverage in office than they did when he was a candidate. but part of why the republicans have had a good 10 days or so is because most of the press coverage, this story notwithstanding, has gone in their direction. >> mika, how are you doing? are you doing ok? >> i'm fine. >> are you ok? because i know it shocks you people having money. you have not grown up around people having money. you look at this house, and you're like, oh, my god. i have never seen a house like this on water. >> i have never seen anyone decide to do that while running for re-election. >> no, that was stupid. and i have said that was stupid. >> come on, now. there's a story there. >> come on, y'all. >> maybe if it was in the "wall street journal," you'd be ok with it. why don't you go to that neighborhood and take a look at that house. drive down the street. you won't be able to. >> i would actually like to buy that house.

but i'm a republican, so i'm not allowed to. >> joe, i just have one question. would you build a house with a car elevator if you were running for office? >> i have answered that a thousand times. >> if you're going to buy a car elevator, buy american. >> it's a german car elevator? oh, no. >> that's worse than the a swiss bank account. front page spread. the special pullout section this weekend. coming up -- >> coming up next -- >> the day after the wisconsin recall, we're going to take a look at the fallout for the unions with mike allen. and mika is going to explain why this was a huge win for barack obama. also, we're going to talk to senator tom coburn, or as mika calls him, the snake handler. economist jeffrey sachs will be here. and also, joan rivers will be on set. >> it's going to be good. but first, the great bill karins has a check on the forecast. bill, are we going to have some sunshine? because i really need some

sunshine. >> yeah. we're looking ok, starting to turn the corner in the northeast after a very chilly start to the month of june. now we'll start warming things up a little bit, feeling in are like summer. getting some of that humidity back in the air. as far as travel trouble this morning, i-4 down in florida, not going to be an easy drive. heavy rain and thunderstorms around sarasota, sneaking up towards tampa. those will drift towards orlando through the morning. we had big thunderstorms around the dallas ft. worth area. those storms have now pushed to the south. and probably the worst weather today, temperatures in the 50s and a chilly cold rain from seattle to portland. so your forecast today, nothing too bad in the northeast. a lot of morning sunshine. we'll have a couple of clouds this afternoon with a few showers. temperatures in the 70s and 80s. so not bad. a little warmer in new england. we're very nice around chicago, detroit. all the way down through the ohio valley. and down around the gulf coast, all the way back to texas, just your typical afternoon storms. no severe weather. we're looking pretty great today. what a nice shot there, looking at new york city. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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time to take a look at the morning papers much the financial times says france's new president francois hollande has moved forward with a campaign promise to lower the retirement age to 60, reversing reforms made by nicolas sarkozy, who raised retirement to 62 in an effort to cut deficits. french conservatives call this latest policy move madness and a risk to the country's credit rating. from our parade of papers, "the los angeles times" says a measure in california to add a $1 tax to cigarettes is on the verge of defeat. prop 29 is trailing by 63,000

votes, although this article says there is still a large number of ballots to be counted. the money would go towards cancer research and would not help the state's budget. and the "boston globe," a teenager was convicted of causing a fatal accident while texting on his phone. the man, 17 at the time, send 193 text messages the day of the crash, including some just before impact. he'll serve a year in prison and have his license revoked for 15 years. the "chicago tribune" now one of the iconic literary minds of the 20th century, science fiction author ray bradbury has passed away at the age of 91. he was the author of classics like "fahrenheit 451." he sold more than 8 million copies through his career. the "new york times," 11 horses since 1978 have tried and failed to win the triple crown.

at the belmont stakes on saturday, i'll have another tries to break the drought. currently the favorite at 4-5. you can watch the race this saturday afternoon on nbc. you have to watch. how could you not? >> why didn't you do "the new york post"? >> we'll do that later. there's some naughty secrets taking place. >> just put it down. joining us now, mike allen with a look at the politico playbook. good morning. >> good morning, guys. >> let's talk about the day after wisconsin. or two days after the wisconsin recall now. karl rove in this morning's "wall street journal" saying it was an historic setback for organized labor, an election that we'll be talking about for a very long time to come. where do the unions come from here? >> well, there's no way to spin it as being good for unions. barney frank, the democratic congressman from massachusetts, saying there was even a mistake for them to take on this recall battle. they have been watching "morning joe," they would have known that y'all thought that for some

weeks. but what we're hearing is caution from republicans. this is definitely a setback for labor. the "wall street journal" pointing out in its news columns today that in san jose and san diego, also voters hit public service unions. but republicans are not going to pour money into wisconsin, but they are not sure how optimistic to really be. the romney campaign adviser pointing out to us that a republican hasn't won in wisconsin since '84. and so it's not fertile ground at all. so they are going to make democrats spend a lot of money but wisconsin is a state that could come off the table pretty soon. similarly, republicans spending now in michigan but they won't do that for too long. spending in pennsylvania. that too. probably will go to the obama column fairly quickly. >> as you say, the president won wisconsin by 15, 17 points last

time. tough row to hoe for republicans. what should republicans take away from what happened two nights ago? can you overlearn those lessons? >> well, you need to raise the lens. whether or not wisconsin is in play, what it does tell you is that conservative or former chief executives at the state level who are taking on issues that have been deemed to be third rails of politics, in this case conferring to the unions collective bargaining issues and other issues, are actually much more tolerated by the electorate in a way they wouldn't have been two, four, six years ago. to me, that's the most interesting message. and that's what "the journal" was pointing out, about these other referendum battles around the country. what you're seeing is an openness about having a discussion of issues that we wouldn't have been talking about several years ago. >> mark, do you agree with that? >> i do. and i think that's one reason that a lot of republicans say nice things about andrew cuomo,

because he is doing the same things as a democrat. it shows it's not necessarily a party thing, but a sign of the times and the public mood and in austere times when people recognize there need to be sacrifices in order to balance budgets. >> chris christie talks about the work that he and governor comeau are doing in this region. >> that's right. >> so it's a singular agenda. mike allen with a look inside the politico playbook. >> have a good day. coming up, the san antonio spurs 20-game winning streak wouldn't mean a thing if they didn't save their season last night in oklahoma city. highlights in, in sports. [ lane ] your anti-wrinkle cream is gone...

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all right. time for sports. after dropping the first two games of the western conference finals to the spurs, the oklahoma city thunder won three straight games and found themselves last night one win away from the franchise's first appearance in the nba finals since '96. when they were the seattle superson supersonics. spurs up 18 points in the first half. tony parker, 21 points and 10 assists in the first half alone. first player to do that in a playoff game since '96.

third quarter, thunder come all the way back from 18 down. kevin durant taking over. finds some space and hits the three. 17-6 run. that gave the thunder the lead. durant played every minute of the game and had 34 points. in the fourth, parker hits a floater to bring the spurs within three. with less than four minutes to play. he only had eight points on four of 13 shooting in the second half after that hot start. thunder up by four. hardin to westbrook. goes up, draws the foul and one, and they never looked back from there. oklahoma city thunder come back from an 18-point deficit in game six at home to win 107-99, becoming the first team other than the spurs, the lakers, or the mavericks to represent the west in the nba finals in 14 years. the thunder are one of just three teams in nba history to come back to win four consecutive games in the conference finals after trailing 2-0. they move on now to the nba finals. the celtics have a chance to join them if they can beat the

heat tonight in game six at home in boston. to the stanley cup finals, the l.a. kings with a chance to sweep the new jersey devils and win the stanley cup at home last night. scoreless in the second period, simone gagner on a bit of a break away, but 40-year-old martin brodeur with the nice kick save. he keeps it scoreless. third period now, tied at 1-1. the devils david clarkson gets it over to henrique. beautiful shot, top shelf on jonathan quick. devils never gave the lead back from there. they win 3-1 to stay alive in the series. the kings missed their chance to win the cup on home ice, and now the series moves back to new jersey for game five on saturday night. the devils are still alive. baseball now. nats hosting the mets. first inning, david wright having a great season, shallow fly ball to center. looks like it may drop, but here comes the kid. bryce harper gets on his horse. covering a lot of ground out there. nice diving catch to take away a hit. bottom of the first now, adam

laroache takes the first pitch he sees deep. nats win 5-3. the washington nationals now, we are pretty deep into the season here, and they are still in first place in the n.l. east. coming up, her new book is "how the lone star state hijacked the american agenda." "new york times" columnist gail collins will join us next. keep it on "morning joe." t ther. t ther. - one serving of cheese is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know.

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our cloud is made of bedrock. concrete. and steel. our cloud is the smartest brains combating the latest security threats. it spans oceans, stretches continents. and is scalable as far as the mind can see. our cloud is the cloud other clouds look up to. welcome to the uppernet. time now for the must read opinion pages. 41 past the hour. i want to hear this. ♪ deep in the heart of texas >> i love it. this is perfect for gail's book. >> i know. >> exactly. >> when i came on to talk about my book about israel, you didn't put on israeli stuff. it's unbelievable. i love it.

here with us now, columnist gail collins. she is out with a new book, "as texas goes: how the lone star state hijacked the american agenda." i want to start with another "new york times" piece, though, the message from wisconsin it's called, and it goes over the results of the recall election. it says mr. walker's campaign raised seven times as much money as mr. barrett's, much of it in six-figure checks from some of the same business interests. the tactics worked in wisconsin, and in several other states. labor, so long in decline in the private sector, is also losing its clout in states and cities, unable to match or withstand the unfettered bank accounts of industry. the people who kept mr. walker and his policies in power are just getting started. dan senor? >> well, i think what the public

sector unions are dealing with in part is that they are increasingly isolated from the rest of the economy. certainly the private sector economy. in the eyes of people at all levels of the economic ladder. even private sector unions, this "times" editorial says have been weakened. they are frustrated with the perks and sense of entitlement and advantages that the public sector unions have that they don't have in the private sector unions. there is a backlash against the power of the public sector unions. i think they are isolated in the economy and increasingly so in our economy. and that's what the wisconsin election was about more than anything. you can get into the tactical and structural issues, but i think that the ziet geist of the moment we are in right now is in part driven by the sense that government spending, governments have grown out of control, and the public sector unions are a big part of that.

>> gail? >> there's two different things. i don't think there's a state in the union that doesn't have some problem with the benefits, long-term benefits issue the public sector unions get. and that was an issue that people voted on in the last election. they didn't vote on let's get rid of the unions. they didn't vote on let's not have any collective bargaining for public employees anymore. and that's not about the money. that's about getting the democratic party defunded by and mobilizing these unions. that's all it is, i think. >> very quick. >> this is a very long discussion. i think that there is a sense that if we have any shot of economic recovery, the public sector unions are going to have to be part of the solution, rather than just a suck of money. and i think the atmospherics and the backdrop, that backdrop is what is driving a lot of discussion that you're seeing in wisconsin and elsewhere. >> ok. let's get to your book.

"as texas goes." gail collins, really a lot of fun in many ways. and let's look at an excerpt as well. and then we'll move on. the subtitle of the book, "how the lone star state hijacked the american agenda." policy works have always described texas as low tax, low service. while the state leaders like to brag about the first part, they don't generally broadcast the rest. there are no signs announcing, welcome to texas. you won't pay much, and you'll get what you pay for. but it's hardly a secret. uh-oh. all right. keep going. tell us about the book. >> you know, this all started when i was listening to the famous now rick perry's secession speech, which was not about secession. it was a speech attacking the federal government in front of a crowd of people with secede signs. and i thought, why are these people so angry? the state has run the country for the past 30 years. if you look at the savings and

loan debacle in the '80s, that was based on a texas plan. you can't say that they were in charge of the reregulation, but certainly phil graham was right up front. no child left behind. all of our federal policies on education, all come from george w. bush's experiences in texas, running texas. energy, the environment. all of the land wars in my lifetime are under texas presidents. they have been running everything. why are they so unhappy? and it sort of all goes back to that state's rights thing. so i sort of looked at texas and tried to figure out if you took texas all by itself and just let it do whatever it wanted, would it bother the rest of us? what effects would it have on the rest of us? and that's why i tried to figure out, you know, if you don't have any services in texas, for the people in texas, does that mean anything for the people in the other 49 states? this is a totally outsider's look at texas and what it means

for the rest of us. >> what is it about texas? because there are california and new york who are essentially count countries unto themselves as well as far as population and economy. but what is it about texas? >> well, i grew up in ohio. and i think people in ohio are fond of ohio. but you don't run around in a t-shirt saying don't mess with ohio. you don't salute the ohio state flag in the morning when you go to school. >> where does that come from? >> it's partly that they -- well, they were once an independent country, and they were very -- they are very, very proud of the fact they were once -- vermont was once a republic too. it doesn't come up in vermont in the same way. there's just something about texas that makes it -- and it's for the rest of us too. at the end of friday night lights, which was my favorite tv series of all time, the last thing they do is they salute texas. when mary tyler moore went up there, she didn't salute

minnesota. it's just a different thing. >> you look at the economic track record in texas. the job growth numbers are stunning. and it's not just in oil and gas. it's across the board. it's tech. i was recently flying out of austin, texas, a few months ago and i opened up the paper, and ebay or pay pal was announcing a facility in texas. thousands of jobs. where these days do you read anything in the press about a company opening up a facility that will create thousands of jobs in the united states? a lot of these companies are going from silicon valley to austin. now, austin is not the texas that you describe. what's going on there, you have a serious college campus and university life. you have a cultural life. music scene. tech scene. so what's going on there? >> it's different. and everybody says that austin is different, but it is part of texas. the interesting thing about texas, for instance, the universities. they need a lot of good college graduates. they don't produce nearly enough good college graduates. they don't spend texas money to

produce these college graduates. they are coming in from illinois or new york or other places. and then texas tells the rest of the country, it's very important to have incredibly low tax rates. which we're sort of paying for because we are sending them our college graduates. i'm not saying that's a bad idea. i'm saying that when you look at the country as a whole, rather than as these little microcosms, you make different judgments about what it's a good plan to do. if you have texas not spending any money on family planning, and then 60% of all the deliveries and births are under medicaid because the women are so poor, we are paying the medicate bill. so do we have a right to discuss that with texas and say, we prefer that women who don't want to have children can have the option of family planning clinics. we have a stake in what you're doing. so for me, it's a question about what this means for the rest of us. three cheers for texas job development is really great,

even though many, many, many of the job are very low wage jobs, and there's a really huge gap there, which is increasing every day, between the high paid 30% and the rest of the country. of the state. so all of the bad things we're seeing in the rest of the country, they are also leading the way in. >> all right. the book is "as texas goes." you can read an excerpt on our blog. gail collins, thank you so much. >> any time. >> good to have you on the show. still ahead, an exclusive first look at the new cover of "time" magazine. and we'll be right back with willie's "news you can't use." tdd#: 1-800-345-2550

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hat, hat, boat, hat, boat boat, hat, boat, hat, boat, bladder infection. this concludes our queen's diamond jubilee weekend. oh, yes. tell me it's time. >> it's time. and i think that's about all you need to know. we just covered it sufficiently. time for "news you can't use." last night, this is very exciting, president obama and mitt romney got together. >> what? >> to tape a bit for the cmt awards. kind of got together, but not really. from far away places and never interacted with each other. the debate was who should host

country music's big cmt awards. >> that's easy. >> should it be toby keith or the actress right there, kristin bell? let's take a listen. >> mr. president, do you have a decision? >> this is one of the toughest decisions i've had to make since i've been in office, but i think i just made it. i want them both. >> well, i thought the presidential election was a tough race. but it's nothing compared to the politics at the cmt music awards. i think i have a solution, though. i propose toby and kristin co-host the show. see? i just put two people back to work. you're welcome, america. there you go. so our question of the day, and this is just a question for viewers to answer, who looks more out of place at the cmt awards? president obama or mitt romney? >> i think both. >> you make the call. >> man. >> they play a lot of country music at mitt romney events. >> they do? >> yeah. >> that doesn't mean he could even tell you who hank williams is. >> does he listen to country music?

>> and eats pork rinds. i don't know. >> at his $12 million la jolla estate. >> there he goes again. parroting "the new york times." unbelievable. >> willie is getting a stream of emails as is halperin talking about that article i guess. >> yes. >> i'm sure i'll stand corrected if i see it. >> october 10, 2004. >> it's all proportionality. >> pattern and practice. last night, steven colbert took up the wisconsin recall election. he wanted to celebrate, abobig time. ran into trouble, though because of the unions guys on his crew. let's watch. >> i think this is a repudiation of big unions, number one. big labor. >> the unions knew they were losing after 2010. they have thrown everything into this, and they are losing. >> this shows the irrelevance of unions. at this point, i have said they are obsolete. >> whoo! we did it! it is the end of unions! whoo! [ cheers and applause ] whoo!

whoo! whoo! jimmy, jimmy, we talked about this. where's my balloon drop? >> stephen, a lot of union people work on this show. and they're kind of upset. >> is that true? [ laughter ] >> all right. i understand. i get that. but you lost, ok? so let's be professional about it. it's my show. drop something. [ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] message received. the old dead fish. still ahead, economist jeffrey sachs will join the conversation. and later, senator tom coburn and joan rivers together

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the defense department announced that al qaeda's number two-man, and this is a job that they keep having to fill over and over again, because the second they bump number three up to number two, bingo, adios. we have a satellite spy photo of abu al libi taken just seconds

before the drone attack. there is right there. welcome to "morning joe." welcome back. top of the hour. mark halperin and dan senor still with us. and joining us at the table, economist dr. jeffrey sachs. good to have you onboard this morning. >> good to see you. >> thank you. we'll get right to our top story. wisconsin governor scott walker is vowing to improve ties with democrats following the state's bitter recall election there. even as national political parties battle over the significance of tuesday's vote. in victory, walker has called on lawmakers from both parties to put aside their differences and do what's best for wisconsin. >> bringing our state together will take some time. there's just no doubt about it. but i want to start out right away. in fact, next weiek, i'm going o invite all of the members of the state legislature, republicans and democrat alike, and what better way to bring people together than for some brauts and burgers, right?

and maybe a little bit of good wisconsin beer as well. [ cheers and applause ] because i believe there is more that unites us than divides us. i believe that now the election is done, we can move on and we can move forward. >> the white house is playing down the implications of walker's victory, but conservatives say it's a game changing moment for the country. here's what former florida governor jeb bush told larry kudlow yesterday on cnbc. >> he is a courageous leader. and he was rewarded for courage. and i think in a world of dysfunction, it's really good that a guy like that with the courage of his convictions who acted on them is rewarded with a victory. i think it's a leading indicator of one thing, which is that the intensity of the conservative side of politics is now stronger than the liberal side. it's a spanking because they made it that way. they raised the stakes. they made this a national campaign. all of the leadership, debbie

wasserman schultz on the democratic party and the union leaders all said that this was -- all roads lead through matt madison, basically, and no they can't reverse that. this was a national statement. >> dr. sachs, you know, politicians and pundits are going to go back and forth on what impact this will have on the election. but let's talk about the long-term implications. the union movement. and i say this as a conservative. after world war ii, the union movement expanded to such a degree that it brought a lot of working class people into the middle class. and as our economy has withered, manufacturing and industrial, so too have the unions. so has this growing disparity. and i'm just wondering if what we saw in wisconsin really might be the beginning of the end of a strong union movement in america. and what the long-term impacts -- that is not just for unions, not for politicians, but for the middle class. >> well, i think the main thing

in america is we are losing the middle class right now. and the most shocking number for me in recent years is that 48% of all households in america were classified as low income by the census last time they took a look. the middle class is disappearing. this was a national issue even before this recall because big money went in to elect scott walker, and at the very start it was an attack on the unions by very, very big money in politics. and we have this dynamic right now that the money at the top in politics is enormous. they are beating down on the middle class. and we don't see the cycle ending right now. >> can i ask you this? conservatives will say the problem with unions might be that you can't fire the bad workers and promote the good workers the way you want. i want to look at union leadership here. i mine the guys and the women

that made the decision to pick on walker for a recall, he is a sitting governor. they know they are going to nationalize this election. the conservatives are going to pour in money. you don't recall governors. it seems like such a stupid thing to do with workers' money, when they could have focused more on senate races in the fall. i just don't understand. are the union leaders going to be held accountable? >> i can't judge the political tactics of it. but it was walker that came out to break them. and he came out right from the start. and that's of course what provoked this. >> right. >> and, you know, he's winning in the forces that are backing him, the koch brothers and others, are winning right now. and this is the dynamic of our national politics. it's amazing. we are breaking the middle class, which was america. >> i remember, mark halperin, back in '96 after we got swept

in '94, guys like randy tate in washington would have $3 million dumped on him in the last five days. and it seems to me the unions, they just don't seem to have that power as much anymore. you look at the numbers, and the "wall street journal" yesterday said that membership in unions in wisconsin has completely collapsed over the past two years. people are running for the exits. how big of a problem is this politically for the democratic party who is dependent on unions, trial lawyers, i mean, you know, republicans have their backers but unions obviously -- man, they are key to organizing democrats. >> well, citizens united world, it means that unions are not going to be as much money on the table as people on the right. i think they have to go back to winning the power of ideas. they need to grow their membership. and they need to be part of the public debate because they play

a big role in our society, and they should. but they need to be having modern new ideas about how to work in a new economy, rather than trying to win the old ways, particularly because they are not going to win with the bank account anymore because of citizens united. >> yeah. >> they have to take it as a huge reset, i think. but also i think be incredibly thankful that the exit polls weren't worse, given the results of this election. i know you don't take much stock in the exit polls, but they do say something. >> i do actually. listen, i think a lot of democrats seize on the exit polls after saying that recalling walker was everything. so they immediately talk about the exit polls. but i don't think there's a transfer to president obama. listen, i think wisconsin is an obama state. i would never for a second think that romney would win it. >> but bush almost won it both times. >> well, you know what, though?

you need a ronald reagan to win that. a mitt romney, probably not going to be at a brewers game getting a standing ovation. i'm not knocking mitt. but he doesn't strike me as the kind of republican that wins up there. >> i just think that the more important and more encouraging news for republicans, as we were talking about earlier, if you look at the issues that walker took on and you look at how many other governors, conservative or republican governors around the country are taking these issues on, the fact that there seems to be political resonance, elector al resonance for former governors taking on that issue, is powerful for republicans going into the fall, regardless of what the exit polls say and regardless of whether or not wisconsin is in play. >> mika is right, dr. sachs. this is a major reset, and as mark said, it seems like unions have to figure out how to live in this new world. because i remember even talking

to trumpca, who said, listen, some of these workplace rules, we have gone overboard, and i understand that. and you'll hear randy say -- whether she means it or not, we have got to reform the way we run schools. it seems to me the unions need reformers that can really -- young people that can shake them up and get them into the 21st century. it's tough. >> well, it's tough sledding, but they can still do it. >> this has been a battering for more than 30 years. globalization decimated manufacturing in this country. wiped out a lot of the union base. reagan took on the unions in his first year with the air traffic controllers. and then went after them through the national labor relations board. and many other ways. this has been a political assault for 30 years. the idea that some billionaires backing scott walker can continue to bash unions is not a big surprise in this country. but the idea that this is a country that takes on its

teachers as the big villains is a shocking thing, joe. you know, we're not getting this right. we are busting the middle class in this country right now. and the tone and the idea that the unions are the real enemy right now, when the income has all gone to the top, is part of the delusion of america right now. >> i don't think the unions are the enemy. i do think when it comes to public education we haven't reformed it the way we should. we spend more money per pupil, more money per pupil than any country on the planet, and the unions have stood in the way of reform, the teachers unions, have stood in the way of reform. they just have. that's the reality. >> i think that's a -- >> want knocking teachers. i'm really not. >> i think we have been kind of on attack against the teachers and on policemen, firemen, other public service workers, that's shocking actually. it's not normal for this

country. and the big story in this country is not what's happening to people struggling in the middle class. the big story is that the middle class has disappeared. there are so many poor. and the rich are just not only soaring in income, but putting the money into the campaigns right now which is really fuelling this new kind of politics. >> that is shocking. but what voters are shocked by, and what i would humbly suggest that union leaders consider, is the fact that what shocks voters are these retirement packages and these benefit packages where people that aren't public employees go, wait a second, they don't pay anything into their retirement or this or that. and i have to. and then you look at the long-term arc of this, and you're an economist, like voters can read stories to see these numbers don't add up. politicians have been paid off by unions over the past 30, 40 years. they have given public unions

sweetheart deals. that are not sustainable. you know they are not economically sustainable. and yes, i'll be the first to admit conservatives have at times been way too excessive in just focusing on unions instead of this growing disparity, which is a challenge to american capitalism. but you've got to admit the unions are part of their own downfall, along with these right wing, quote, villains that you bring up. >> well, joe, i think the real problem is we busted the revenues for state and local government and for the federal government so we can't actually run even -- we can't run our governments at any level right now. the red ink at the state level is so large. of course maybe taxpayers are saying, we have to do something about that. but that's because we have completely gutted our tax system, and we continue to do it. and we're in this vicious circle right now, where the rich -- and

they are influencing both political parties -- are now keeping on this drum beat, keep the tax cuts going and all the rest. so there's no money to run government anymore. >> so on that, it's also very hard for the campaigns to stay on message. the obama administration reiterated yesterday that president obama has no intention of extending even temporarily the tax cuts for the highest earning americans first signed into law by president bush and then renewed by president obama himself. in 2010. yesterday on "morning joe," larry summers, president obama's former national economic adviser, complicated the president's message when he warned against any sudden moves that could put the brakes on the economy. >> the real risk to this economy is on the side of slowdowns. certainly not on the side of overheating. and that means we've got to make sure that we don't take the gasoline out of the tank at the end of this year. that's got to be the top priority. we've got to make sure that we

keep providing energy to the economy. >> mr. summers later released a statement clarifying his position. [ laughter ] >> it's like a routine. go on "morning joe" in the morning. if you're a supporter of the president. by afternoon, you have to put out a statement. >> you tell the truth, and you have to put out a statement. well, you tell the truth as you say it. >> it reads in part, i fully support president obama's position on tax cuts. extending the high income tax cut -- >> we're not going to have and guests on the show anymore. >> there should be a set of dunce caps in the green room. >> but, joe, that's the guy that peddled the short-term stimulus, and that each year peddled just a bit more. >> bill clinton, where the former president appeared to also break with the white house on the question of renewing the bush tax cuts, only later issuing a clarifying statement

of his own. >> he clarified as well. that's good. that's not on us, though. that was cnn. you can't blame us for that. >> when they come on the show, they should have to bring like a standard template memo. the memo they will be issuing today. sign your name here. >> instead of signing releases like you do, just here is your clarification. we have already written it up for you. >> by 3:00, you'll be releasing it. >> we're joking about it, but if i'm in the obama white house, and i'm on the team, i'm out of my mind angry. it started with cory booker. it continued on this show. it continued elsewhere on the other issue. now we're on to taxes. and you got larry summers, bill clinton undercutting your message. i don't -- is there -- and maybe somebody will find an article -- by the way, we read this article in 2004 and it does say that john kerry was very uncomfortable with his wealth and he wears clothes until they

wear out. not quite the same tone. but maybe this has happened in political history, where a president has been so undercut by his side. there is no parallel to me. i can't believe this. >> well, remember, in politics, things are never as bad as they seem. and while the white house and the obama campaign is going through a tough period now, it's not like he's gone down seven points in the polls or anything. >> right. >> but they do face an interesting choice now about how to go back on the offensive. these quotes, these bill clinton quotes and other things that have happened on bain and on extending the tax cuts, it puts them on the defensive the rest of this week without a doubt. the question is next week, i think, what can they go back on the offensive on? can they go back on the offensive on bain, on deficits? i don't know. but they have to find a way to take command of the thing, which they don't have right now. >> yeah. dr. sachs? >> well, i think it's going to come down to what happens to the economy. and to the sad part for the administration is they shot most of their bullets in the first three years, and have very

little left right now. the economy is weak. >> by the way, you said in real time in 2009, while they were doing it, that it wasn't going to work. >> well, i said if they did it, they were going come to a period like this, where they wouldn't have it anymore. >> well, you said they were going to rebuild the balloon. that this was stupid. it was shortsighted. i called it canesian reductionism. >> yeah. >> and speaking of gas, they put gas in the tank. and you predicted 2 1/2, three years ago, it would run out when it did. >> it didn't work. the timing is always wrong, you know, to go at the start and then you end up with the weak economy in the last year. and they are scrambling right now. >> yeah. we were talking about polls and everything. i obviously am not feeling well. that's why i'm so cranky today. i'm usually a very happy person. but did you guys talk about elizabeth warren and what's happening up in boston? >> no, i really want to. >> because this is a good example. you never know the impact of things. like she's been killed by this native american story.

and it is actually helping her, if you look at the polls. and sometimes this happens. i remember the best debate performance i ever had. i walked out, and everybody was high fiving me. and i was like, boy, i wiped her out. i wasn't rude. but the next day in the paper, the whole thing was framed that i was picking on a female candidate. and it was actually my low point. you never know. like this story, i actually think scott's campaign should back off of it. >> well, maybe they could talk about paycheck fairness. oh, way. no, they can't. no, it's a problem. it really is. >> do we know how he voted? he probably voted for paycheck fairness. >> he voted with the republicans. >> oh did, he really? i don't know if i would have done that if i were in massachusetts running for that seat and were a moderate. but i'm not any of those things. so i would have voted against it. >> we'll talk about this coming up. but there are going to be, what, four debates, alex?

>> five, i think. >> it will be fascinating. they are both great candidates. >> they are both great candidates. even though i don't share her philosophy, she seems to me to be your type of candidate who is not tainted by wall street money at all. in fact, they all hate her. >> well, they do. she has been after them for years. that's the point. that's why she is running neck and neck right now. >> and they have a self-imposed ban on outside money. >> really? >> they have cut a deal to ban outside money. we'll see if that holds. and it's four debates. >> i wonder who's doing them? that's going to be incredible. >> yeah. >> all right. dr. sachs, stay with us. still ahead, did president obama fall short of his goal to create a team of experts? todd purdum says his cabinet looks more like a team of

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23 past the hour. joining us now from washington, national editor for ""vanity fai fair" todd purdum. he writes in part this. obama relates to his cabinet the way he relates to the rest of the world. he is a total into vert, a form are adviser told me. he doesn't need people. the larger truth is that modern presidents with a few exceptions don't need and don't use cabinet members as privy counselors on the most important questions. that i have other people for that. presidents do need competent, even if anonymous, executives to run the vast machinery of the federal government, but most cabinet secretaries don't really do that either. the cabinet these days amounts

to a kind of demographically balanced assembly of team mascots, with increasingly ill-defined roles. >> todd, you're going to join the long list of people on "morning joe" that are going to come here, tell the truth, and then have to retract your statement later. but this sounds an awful lot like another president. george w. bush, who treated his cabinet members like mascots. >> well, the truth is, all modern presidents to some degree treat their cabinets this way. it's been a long time since there was a cabinet like fdr's or even jfk's, where cabinet members really were advisers on their area. >> why is that? >> well, i think partly because the white house staff has grown and control has gotten centralized. so the national security side as dan can tell you that, staff has grown greatly in the past 50 years. nixon, of course, routinely bypassed his secretary of state, bill rogers, in favor of henry kissinger.

almost humiliated him by failing to consult him. he was not involved in the china trips. so i think it's been a graduate buildup of centralized control in the white house, where presidents like to be able to exert control. >> how does that face off against the articles in "newsweek" and "the new york times" about the team of rivals, and the tension within the administration and top advisers about his foreign policy moves of the past year or two, especially the ones that have taken lives? >> you mean things like libya or the afghanistan surge or what are you referring to? >> the drone strikes, killing osama bin laden. >> the kill list meetings and leaking it no"the new york times." >> i think there are clearly disagreements with the security team. i don't know it's between and among cabinet secretaries. in fact, people tell me there's remarkably little interdepartmental squabbling and feuding with the departments, and they really get along. there's nothing like the tension between colin powell and don

rumsfield or cap wine burger and george shultz. there's nothing like that on the obama team. >> and tell me, why is that? s has he selected -- >> no drama obama. if you are going to make trouble, you don't get on the team. and this piece isn't to say there aren't individually some very impressive people. janet napolitano. and others. by and large, especially on the domestic side, he doesn't really use the cabinet members to advance his agenda. you don't see secretary duncan very often on a place like "meet the press." he comes on your show. but the obama administration has struggled from the beginning to have a spokesperson who they regard as effective as the president and the result was especially in the beginning the president was badly overworked in terms of making media appearances. >> or is it -- i'm just wondering, because i'll go back to the foreign policy and the

divisions within some of his top advisers about this. and what we've been covering. is it that it's more closely cloaked? >> i think it is closely cloaked. and, you know, there are obviously reporting has shown there have been some intensely hot disagreements in private. it's just that these people do not take their -- by and large do not take their disagreements to the public, and that comes straight from the top. >> and you say the president has built his cabinet as a team of loyalists, with the exception of robert gates, hillary clinton, and tim geithner. those are big exceptions. >> those are very important. you could argue those evare the big cabinet posts. the oldest posts. and the biggest surprise is the effective relationship with secretary clinton. they meet privately once a week. >> that's amazing. >> four years ago, most people wouldn't have thought that was possible. >> and it says so much about senator clinton. >> it certainly does.

>> when she left the white house and went to the senate, everybody said she would be terrible. within two years, trent lot said she is one of the best senators to work with. and she was so serious. trent lott. general petraeus was asked what senator knows the most about what you're doing in the war, and his answer, you mean, other than senator clinton? i mean, again, it's shocking. hey, can i ask you really quickly, because you worked for "the new york times" and you were kind enough to give us a heads up on a story that "the times" had written a couple of years back with john kerry, about john kerry's wealth. i would suggest as some of us would around here framed a bit differently talking about he is uncomfortable with his wealth, and he's very frugal. but what do you make -- and i would ask you, i love "the times." you know that. you worked there. what do you make of conservatives and some media people saying that come election

year, they skew left? is that unfair? take us behind the curtain there and explain to us why that's not the case because we want to believe that. >> i think that's probably pretty unfair. i think a lot of people felt that in 2000, "the times" coverage of george w. bush was much, of more sympathetic than its coverage of al gore. i think masters the-- they ha writers on the bush campaign. but that piece from 2004 about john kerry where bob worth went to france to look at his grand parents' house and talked about their two-story kitchen, i don't think it was a particularly sympathetic tone. i think it was sort of, you know, a fairly jaundiced tone. it all depends on whose ox is going gored. and the truth is, journalists and americans more broadly seem to resent wealth. i don't think that was so true -- no one seemed to resent

franklin roosevelt's wealth. the issue is, you know, john kerry doesn't seem like the kind of guy who could serve hot dogs to the king and queen of england. i guess now that maybe the notion that mitt romney will build a four-car garage with an elevator, it's just a rich target. but i think "the times" is pretty equally disdainful of these kinds of things. and it takes equally, you know, jaundiced view. >> well, we wanted certainly -- >> but far be it for me to defend "the new york times." >> well, no. you worked there. so, you know, people can say that you're biassed. but they could also say that you have a much better understanding of what really happens there. and how news is made. and they are all very conscientious people. we all have to check, including myself every day, our biases. well, that's interesting. you know, we'll see what happenings. i do want to say this, though. because you brought up another

great point. i remember the 2000 election, telling my friends, this is the first time in my lifetime that the republicans are getting the break. and you're exactly right. it's fascinating. that year, al gore was kicked around in 2000, throughout the entire campaign. and at some point, i was still on the hill, and we would get together and go, what's going on? why is our guy getting the breaks this time? and it was -- and that's strange. and it's interesting what you say. you put a great writer who is sympathetic on that campaign. he's going to write great stories. and the editors are going to go, put that on the first page. right? >> and another thing was happening too. george w. bush was trying to show that he was a real person, that he had grown and matured. remember the washington press corps who remembered him as the still sort of prince hal of the first bush administration or the reagan years, he had a lot of who, to do to overcome the image

that he was kind of a light weight. they exposed him to the press, where by that point al gore was hunkered down, very defensive, and had become the victim of kind of a feedback loop in which he just couldn't catch a break. >> all right. team of mascots in the new issue of "vanity fair." todd, thank you very much. >> no statement coming this afternoon. >> i'm looking forward to it. >> about 3:00 p.m. >> do a youtube video. that would be great. >> i'm doing it for chuck. still ahead, tom coburn from oklahoma. and also the always outspoken joan rivers will join us onset. "morning joe" is back in a moment. uncover stronger, younger looking skin.

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dr. sachs, you just got back from europe. you believe in the next couple of days, we could be facing a serious, serious threat on the euro. >> well, the world's big news is in europe right now. the big economic news that's going to affect us, it's going to affect the elections. do they pull out the survival of the eurozone, or does the whole thing implode in a massive financial crisis? there's an ongoing run in spain.

the spanish have said help. the germans, who control things, are sitting there, saying, well, maybe. maybe not. greece is voting a week from sunday. the lead party wants to disown the agreement with germany basically on how to move forward. so europe is just absolutely at the edge. >> they are at the edge. >> and if they don't agree, there will be a financial crisis. the eurozone won't survive. and the spillover to the world would be huge. so this is -- the events are dramatic in the next few weeks. >> are they all attached by a rope? if greece falls off the cliff, it pulls over italy, which pulls over spain, pulls over portugal, and on and on? >> it's basically panic. once something goes down, it's the fear, the panic, it's the depositors moving out of the banks systems in the weaker countries that does it in. so it's not a rope, it's just the fear factor. >> the panic. it's september 15. >> i know you have an appointment, but --

>> yeah. we better watch this story. it's going to be big. >> jeffrey sachs, thank you very much. >> thank you, jeffrey. we love having you. up next, the latest issue of "time" magazine. >> smile, rick. smile. >> don't say anything that will get you in trouble. [ mechanical humming ]

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welcome back to "morning joe." look who we have here? he's great. >> joining us nous, "time" magazine editor rick stengel. you have righted the ship. it was bad with the boob on the cover. >> no 11-year-old breast feeding. this is a very important cover. i can't wait to talk about it. >> it's a cover story about the man who indeed may be the most powerful person in america, the decider, justice anthony kennedy. the classic swing vote on a court that is divided between liberals and conservatives.

and he's been that swing vote for years now. i think he's voted in the majority 95% of the time. in fact, he is the majority. >> he is the majority. >> he makes the majority. >> i have never known a man that the second the supreme court took on the affordable care act, you knew -- and we said that day -- this will come down the way anthony kennedy decides he wants to go. >> yes. >> the law of the land rests on him, whether it's affirmative action, health care, the death penalty. whatever. >> abortion, privacy, everything. >> abortion. he could overturn roe v. wade tomorrow. >> and obviously the peg for this is the court will rule this term on the affordable care act. what a lot of people call obama care. and it's unsure -- we don't say -- we don't know what justice kennedy, how he will vote. in fact, he has already voted but it's not known until the court releases its opinion. >> yeah. >> to what extent is he influenced by the outside noise

and i include in that president obama, you know, shall we say, subtly making his voice known in terms of what the court should do? what kind of impact does that have? >> i actually think the court is more immune to those things than people realize. there's the old saying, supreme court justices read the newspapers, and of course they do, and they are quite political. he comes from a political background himself, from sacramento. he knows what's going on in that respect. but he has been on the court so long, and he's been on so many issues, i think he really looks at the law. and what's so fascinating about the story is that so many studies have shown over the years that justices make their decisions intuitively first, and then they use the law to back up their decision. i think he approaches things with a relatively open mind and then looks for case law to bolster what he eventually intimately and intuitively thinks the law is. >> so conservatives and some

moderate legal scholars have accused him of falling victim to the, quote, greenhouse effect. have you heard that? linda greenhouse, "new york times" writer, and the story on anthony kennedy has been for years that he is obsessed with his legacy. he is obsessed with the editorial page of what "the new york times" says. fair or not? >> well, i mean -- >> or let's say it this way. more so than the other eight justices? >> but i think that the other justices have come to play a lot more too. you see stories about sonia soed mayor in ways we didn't before. we have quite extraordinary access to people who work for him, his colleagues and all of that. and that picture in his own chambers. obviously, he is aware of what perception is. and as we were saying before this is a gigantic term and in many ways will determine his legacy.

>> mark, let's read the tea leaves and then ask rick a question. here's my guy. everybody does things like this for a reason. i'm reading the tea leaves, and i think he's voted against the affordable care act. and he's starting the spin right now. because he knows it's his legacy. what do you think? >> my gut from the beginning is going to be 5-4 strike it down. i think if kennedy and roberts either or both had voted to uphold the law, i think it would have leaked by now. >> roberts will not be there. >> yeah. so this is an incredibly important person. an incredibly important story. because i have followed his career since president reagan nominated him. this portrait by my colleagues takes you inside his history and where he comes from and his attitudes towards politics in the country better than anything i have ever read. it's an incredibly well reported story and well written story. >> did you know that -- i mean, joan didian grew up with him.

>> no, she did not. >> yes. >> really? >> so throughout the story, she says, yes, i had dinner at his house. she knew his parents and brothers and sisters. >> puts him in the context of sacramento, where he's from, and growing up what his father was like and what he was like taking over for his father. it's an incredibly important time to read about him. however he votes, it's going to be an historic decision. >> wow. >> all right. the new cover of the "time" magazine is the decider. rick stengel, thank you very much. very good to see you. up next, how premier league champion manchester city is bringing soccer to deserving students here in america. >> the cup is here! >> with the help of the united arab emirates. that's next on "morning joe."

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forces and unveiled their soccer facility on the roof of psmd 2 in harlem. >> they have nowhere to play soccer. >> what started as a dream evolved into an initiative to inner city kids across the country. >> using soccer as a vehicle to help kids with health, nutrition and discipline. >> for many, soccer has been an important part of their lives. >> they are practicing on saturdays and suspecteds. >> for changed my lives because usually on saturdays i don't do anything. once i started playing soccer, now i go practice with the coaches. it's pretty fun. >> soccer! >> fantastic. manchester city football club. in charge of development for man city and united arab emirates.

>> you have been talking about this for years. it's so amazing that we said we have to talk to u sev about bringing soccer to the most disadvantaged places. you were ahead of us. where did the vision come from to help kids in tough neighborhoods? >> it started here in new york. we came here two years ago to this wonderful public high school in east harlem who is won by a wonderful principal, antonio hernandez. we decided we want to help kids in lower income areas that don't have access to facilities. this came as a test project. they decided to have this partnership and help this wonderful school. the facilities necessary a small building with no elevators. they don't have a soccer field or anything for the kids to use.

it would be great if they can have a field on the roof top. we said great, how can we help? they said if you can help fund it. we split the cost 50-50 between the embassy and manchester city. prot ject went so well, we goz potative feedback that since we did this, we have done one in miami and los angeles and one in chicago in october. >> we talked to the city about doing this again before we knew you guys were doing it. the city wanted to help. there is not space. space is so precious. you guys figured it out. >> it gives the kids a place to go and exercise and develop the team spirit to get everything out of soccer completely safe. >> and to stay fit and healthy.

>> it's everything. it's everything they need. >> you can believe you guys are here not just talking about the great things you are doing for disadvantaged youth, but here with a trophy. by the way, for -- for football fans, i can't believe i'm that close. >> it's probably closer. >> he has an entourage. >> they get security guys that follow this thing around. it's amazing. >> talk about man city. it is remarkable what you are doing. >> we started this program when we hadn't won a trophy. before anything. to have won a trophy, you are back at lexington and take that to the kids is phenomenal.

to win the school's cup two weeks before. to have the premiership trophy alongside it yesterday. they picking it up quickly? >> yes. >> the team captain is a girl who played really, really well. absolutely. i played with them last night. they wear you out. >> you go there and that's all they play. on the playground and at lunch and in the morning they get there a half hour before to play soccer. lunchtime they play soccer and we coach them during the day. it's a soccer school. >> 80% of the school is latinos. >> it's phenomenal. >> frank explains in his book on soccer that around the world, soccer is the people's sport. in america it's more the upper middle class wealthy sport.

it's a remarkable book. you guys for doing this are making it the people's sport here too. that's the goal. >> there is an opportunity to make it more readily available in places that need it. >> you just did it. you can't put the pinch up. >> more to come. garrett is an investor. thank you so much. >> can i take that home? >> coming up next, we will debate recent coverage of the romney campaign and how the candidate's personal wealth is coming into play. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about how some companies like to get between ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you and your money. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we believe your money should be available

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 on the west coast. back with us on set we have mark halprin and dan seymore. >> we are laughing at the "new york times." >> i'm not laughing at that. >> no, you're not, but it reminds me again of knocking down a couple of packs. the holiday and 50 cent. >> it's the only holiday inn in

new york they allow smoking. >> it's called the -- >> it was a lobbying campaign. >> we are over there and willie has all these devices. now he's like high tech guy. right? what does that mean? he reads an advanced copy of the "new york times" today and breaks out in song. guess what he sings. he said don't you love forest? i like it too. it's the story in the "new york times" where they dispatched reporters to mitt romney's la jolla home, went around the neighborhood and found every democrat they could to trash mitt and in fact admitted as much saying that political

analysts contributed to these painful statements and talking about the horse stories. you have a question and you know i don't know if you know this, but i was going up to vermont a couple of years ago and the turnip truck hit a bump. this was the first election i covered. i don't remember. did the "new york times" ever dispatch reporters to john kerry's homes because he is worth more money obviously than mitt romney. his georgetown home, that you can recall? >> i don't recall that. >> was there his massive farm outside of pittsburgh, was there a story on that multimillion-dollar estate? >> i think i would remember. >> the beacon hill which we have both seen.

it's beautiful. do you know how much that costs? this costs more than than this la jolla fixer upper. did you remember a story? you can put that back up? in 2004, like this about let's say the beacon hill residence. >> we saw him wind surfing. >> and i have seen the house. i am not picking on john kerry. >> we saw john edwards's house. >> they wanted to call him out. they thought it was not okay for a man to spend his money that way. that's not how they do it in the south of france. the ski chalet there maybe in

sun valley. did they happen to do a story? is there a -- i wonder, is there a public editor at the "new york times"? >> there is. >> i'm curious. >> this is a good point. >> i'm curious, has he taken up bowling over the last couple of months. we have this story that we all know is just phony journalism and put on the front page. we know that was phony journalism. this is just embarrassing for the times. the times acts as if we can't search this stuff and show side by side. they do something on ann romney's horses. >> it was not front page. it was big investigative

journalism. this was like a big investigative project. >> and the subtext. the subtext was the romneys are rich, but not as rich as the kerries. the kerry s probably would not let him live there because they are richer. you know how much they recent the kerry s for being rich? i have been to their place and when i was there and looked around, i said boy, i wish i had this place. i looked up to it. i love wealth. i wish i had it. it will come to me. >> i don't know why he moved here in the first place given his political. living next door to him.

>> he is someone that yells at me on twitter when i say i love the beatles. you can't like music! you were against everything that john lennon stood for. i thought he stood for great music. i didn't know he to be a leftist to love the greatest band in the world and to like sunshine in la jolla. your favorite quote also i think, alex? go ahead. >> one woman is talking about the security measures. if this were obama, i would probably be final. >> this is the newspaper that i love and i read every day. it has the best writing and the best reporting in the world. the public editor needs to step up and straighten the people out. >> this is the home section. >> they make one of the best

paper in the world and do tons of great work. >> tons of great work. >> i'm amazed that they made just these choices regarding the mccains and obamas. about michelle and cindy that couldn't have been more different. not just a public editor, but they are doing this symbolic thing again. >> you are not talking about. i saw what they did with cindy mccain versus michelle obama was shameful. i love the times. i feel lucky to be able to read it every day. i do. i know that upsets conservatives and that's why they matter enough to talk about it this way. i love them. it's like being a lead down by a leader. >> the piece that looks at something that's true. i am telling you they have done

a lot of really positive pieces on mccain and romney. front page. >> we are just comparing here. just like you said, mark, you have this cindy mccain story and most shamefully, you have this story where the "new york times" destroyed a young woman's life by putting up false allegations that were dredged up. remember the lobby? could you imagine being a young woman caught in the crossfire against john mccain because they wanted to elect barack obama. can you imagine what she lived through going to work and trying to work on the hill? going home on weekends to her family? having to call her parents? having to see friends at church? all because the "new york times"

wanted to get at john mccain. you know what, if it were the national inquirer, i wouldn't say a word. fair game. the post is the post. but the times is the times. if you or anybody else out there can show me this type of spread from four years or eight years ago on john kerry and his massive accumulations and teresa heinz kerry, they have a right to live well. so too do the romneys. i say this and mean it. i talked to you and you heard conservatives scream at me about defending the times as the best newspaper in the world. i say this because i love the times. i think they are embarrassing themselves. i don't want to go through what we went through four years ago. >> it was unbelievable.

the disproportionate attention that certain stories got was amation. this is a weekly basis with the times. the rickets piece and the huge front page piece on romney. >> let me just say for people that don't know, you work for the romney campaign. you don't work for them. i'm sorry. you run the whole thing. go ahead. >> almost every week there is a huge spread that bigs deep into an issue because nothing seems central in a way that it would justify the real estate it is getting. it is stunning. it is a double standard. >> this is a fair story if it's proportionate to both sides. >> can i say one thing and mark, take it. look, he's building a house with a car elevator and a $12 million house. they have to shut down the

street to do the work. there is a local story here on the cover of d 1. i just want to put the story that you are using as the touch stone for this entire narrative. >> ann romney -- don't mischaracterize me if you are going to talk about it. ann romney on the cover with her horses? >> can i finish? i read that as well. i am not sure if it's necessarily a bad piece unless you want to make that about ann romney. i have gone riding with them and i get a sense of the life she leads spending that time with her in the horse world and it's fascinating. it's a fascinating story. >> was it a front page story? >> i agree. it wasn't. i believe the narrative you are building has legs. >> you know what, to what you said about that, you know about what's happening at mitt romney's house in la jolla. you didn't know until i told you

and nobody did other than goobers like mark halprin who knows everything about politics. you didn't know that john kerry had a ski chalet in idaho and he had a house in beacon hill and a farm outside of pittsburgh and he had a multimillion-dollar place in georgetown. you know what, the "new york times" never went to his neighbors. this is like what you say about reporters and the times sending everybody out to alaska and overlooking chicago. >> please, you think the "new york times" had to scurry around digging for this? you think this was hard to see with people getting upset and the street being shut down and filings being made in the town hall. let me ask you this. how smart is it for a candidate to make these decisions right now? does this make sense?

i'm asking. >> i have nothing to say. this is indefensible. there is no proportionality. >> there is no story here? >> there is a story here if you do the story about the other candidate. >> i have a piece from auction 10th, 2004 in the "new york times." it talks about how the perception of the john kerry's elitism may hurt him and talks about in winter he goes helicopter skiing. he is transported from england and reassembled on the banks of sun valley. in summer he wind surfs and sails off the coast and they have an 18th century town house in boston with a kitchen that is two stories high. an 88 acre estate and a gulfstream jet and a staff of six including caretakers and a cook and it goes on and on to lay out the artwork he has in the houses and asks the question, is he too elite.

>> he put his research in. >> i will have to look at what page this is on. this is the quick search. october 10th, 2004. >> again, the thing is that's a good point and i'm glad it's out. >> would you do this when running for office? >> as we have been saying, it's proportionality. it's all about proportionality. >> it's not mitt romney's fault at all. >> the "new york times" put this with this much position. none of us recall and we are wrong. >> to mark's point, do you think that some of missteps by the obama campaign is reflective of the fact that they are not used to running with the press all over their case? that was the case last time.

they didn't have the press all over their case. when you are running, just the democratic candidate. they are quietly rooting for them. how much do you think that contributed to them? >> some, but they adjusted to that over the last couple of years. they got the coverage in office than when he was a candidate. the part of why the republicans have had a good ten days or so, most of the press coverage and this story has gone in their direction. >> republican senator tom coburn joins the conversation and she has been called one of the hardest working women in show business. best selling author and fashion guru joan rivers will be here on set. first -- bill with a check on the forecast. >> good morning to you. haven't had a lot of big devastating weather stories. just a lot of rain here and there. happy to say no big tornado

outbreaks or heat waves or floosd. a nice weather pattern. heavy rain through downtown orlando. central florida's way. we have been dealing with wet weather in central texas and the storms moved to the south and the southwest. if you are waking up, i-5 in the pacific southwest. seattle and portland and eugene. the high will be luck to hit 60. chilly in new england, but that will warm up near 70 in boston and new york city back where you should be. beautiful day today by the way. a sneak peek at tomorrow and more of the same and wet weather down through the deep south. the only change is friday evening in northern new england. overall looking good as we wrap up. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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>> per president clinton not wanting to further undermine the economy recommended a short-term extension of all the tax relief. >> obviously president bill clinton gets it. he knows you should not be raising taxes on anybody. >> it's the same argument that former president clinton is making. we need to extend these tax rates. >> even bill clinton came out

for it before he was against it. >> here we go. join us now from capitol hill. senator tom coburn is the author of the debt to stop washington from bankrupting america. senator, great to have you back on the show. we will talk more about the debt bomb coming up, but are we looking at another fight on tax cuts all over again? >> i don't know. i think you are seeing a lot of posturing. we need to reform the tax code. everybody gets it. we got into the short-term extensions that puts everybody in a box. we need to do a combination of things. we need to modify and save medicare and social security and reform the tax code and decrease spending in terms of discretionary. nobody wants to do the hard work of doing those things.

they would rather have the argument about what the status quo is. to me it's disgusting. >> when you say no one wants to do the hard work, can't that be defined as republicans will say no to certain things and democrats will say no as it pertains to taxes and tax cuts and they will never be compromise and they will never do what they don't want to do? >> no, the problem is there is a lack of leadership. when you talked to senators privately, they agree we have to change social security and change medicare. even all the republicans agree we have to reform the tax code and increase revenues. this is no secret. the question is, the short-term thinking for political expediency and party power or somebody winning in a race versus doing what's good for the country. we have no leadership to say hey, wait a minute. time out. all the political garbage that is going on, what are the real

problems facing this country? how do we face them back in the government and the tax code so capital can be invested? so what if somebody loses. let's fix the country. this is all game play. >> okay. i assume you are talking about president obama when you are talking about leadership? >> i'm talking about president obama and i'm talking about mitch connell, john boehner, harry reid, nancy pelosi. there is eight or ten of us that can wait. the fact is even what's going on in europe today, they are going to do a fix again and get past it for a while. ultimately europe has to deleverage and we have to deleverage. that requires some painful experiences for everybody. the longer you wait, the more pain there is for everybody.

what the politicians are doing saying i don't want to have pain in my political career so i will let america have pain in their economic future. >> what do you suggest given the climate in washington? >> if president obama were listening and i were to tell him, i would say stand up and here's my plan for medicare and social security and to totally reform the tax code and to trim spending and let's do it and do it now before the election. he would win in a landslide. >> i know you would like to see academies before the election, but most think that's unlikely. >> i agree. >> two things governor romney would say assuming hoe is elect elected. he doesn't want his hands tied if he is president-elect. he also said he is not sure a grand bargain is required and all the fiscal issues are dealt in a series of discreet issues.

>> i'm not sure that's possible. you have to hold hands for everybody to give. i don't know. i'm not an experienced enough politician. i know what i don't like about politics. i'm not shsure i know what i do like. children things have to be addressed with the lame duck. all that does is hurt the confidence going forward. >> we are talking about the lame duck. last time in 2010, the bush tax cuts were extend and you were in favor of that. are you in favor this time or do you like president obama's model? >> i voted against it. i voted against it because we didn't make any of the changes to allow any type of pay fors or anything. we made no adjustments. >> you did support ideas of the tax cuts for the wealthy? is that fair to say? >> i think we need to quit extending anything and reform the tax code so we get capital

invested in this country and i voted against the bush tax cuts. >> you would do that again this time around? >> if there is no effort to change the wasteful spending, if there is $400 billion a year, to say we will continue the tax cuts and the rates the way they are without addressing any of that is unconscionable to me that we will waste 400 billion and say we have to do this, both are important and both have to happen. >> you got a report that is an oversight report called money for nothing, tell us about it. >> we have all this money locked up and past the date of utilization that the bureaucracies in congress have. it's about $70 billion. if you have common sense at all, the last thing you want is $70 billion that is not going to get

spent and being locked up and continue to pay the interest on. the hiv patients have mob money to know where it has been locked up. it was the mortgage help program and only half of the money because it was so poorly done couldn't be utilized. it's time after time. fema grants and money is sitting out there that can't be used and never will be used and hasn't been pulled back. it's the incompetency by the government and congress. we thought we would show them. you can go find them and pull back if you were efficient and cared about the country and not borrowed the $70 billion in the future. >> wouldn't you have to agree on how to use the money? >> no. the first thing you do is it's not being used now, but sitting

idle. pull it back. >> you have to agree to do that and i'm not sure you guys can agree on anything. carefully dancing into the vote. >> i would tell you the reason this country is in trouble is we agree too much. we have agreed to have a $1.4 trillion deficit without cutting $400 billion out of the government. we agreed to fund things that we don't have money for. we agree to spend on things we don't have on things we don't need. we agreed to do things outside the role in the congress. we wouldn't be $63 trillion in debt if we disagreed more on the basic principals of what the role of the federal government is. >> would you agree that at this point democrats and republicans sometimes disagree on the

simplest things? >> i think that's the story line. i don't think that's true. if you are running the senate and you want to show dysfunction, you can set it up that way. that's how harry set it up. we pass more judges out of the congress this year than has happened in 20 years. this is the election year so far. but we are disfunctional. we pass more judges out of the committee. we have less than 20 or 22 judges in process and in terms of appellate and federal judges. we passed the extensions and got harry reid to do the flood extension. the agriculture bills on the floor and agrees to do that and to pass a transportation bill out of the senate and passed it out of the senate. if things come to the floor and their open process, the senate

works. if you want to create a story line that said it doesn't work, you can do that. that's up to the majority. >> what would have to happen to see that same cooperation in the house? >> what we need to do is get bills to conference and let it work. i think if we are going to get a transportation bill, it will be hard. there is differences in opinions, but it will come out. our founders meant to make it hard to do things. the differences can be modulated. nobody said it was easy. in an election year, it's tougher. that's why we haven't had a budget because of the election coming up. the relationships between

senators, i have great relationships and most everybody else does. the problem is the wink and the nod of the political gain which is what is sickening with the magnitude of what is important. >> i want to ask you to play political analysts with the recall election. i'm curious to hear your thoughts about governor walker's approach over the last 18 months or so in that state in terms of how we dealt with the public sector unions to reduce the deficit in that state. what do you think of the way he handled that? >> i'm not sure. i think one of the principals i am trying to do is to love people even when i disagree. i'm not sure early rhetoric was the best he could have had in terms of what he did. i don't know if he won that election because people think it's unfair to throw them out because you disagree on policy versus a major ethical or moral

issue. i don't read it. what i'm having trouble with is keeping up with the politics in washington. >> what about the policy and asking them to pay in more to help the balance sheet in the state. >> we will have to do it. it's going to have to happen ultimately at the federal level. i think his was a 1 to 5 and a 7 to 12. you go to 5% and 7% to 12% on health care. that puts him far below the average private sector. i was in california and you can retire as a fireman after 20 years of full pay and forever health insurance with the contribution, what california has a $16 billion deficit right now. nobody in private sector gets anything like that. not even congress men. >> senator tom coburn, thank you very much. the book is the debt bomb. a plan to stop washington from

bankrupting america. thank you very much. >> you bet. you guys have a good day. >> you too. standing by in the green room. joan rivers is next on "morning joe." [ truck beeping ]

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>> this is the kind of a book i like. now that's a good page. these are good pages. 10:00, 11:00, 12:30. this and that. that's happiness. last year was a very difficult year. i was playing here we go. the bronx at 4:30 in the afternoon. that was a real good one. i will show you fear. that's fear. if my book ever looked like this, it would mean that nobody wants me and everything i tried to do in life didn't work. nobody cared and i have been totally forgotten. >> that was joan rivers in the 2010 critically acclaimed documentary about her life and career. joining us now is emmy award winning television host joan rivers. she is out with a new book, i hate everyone.

starting with me. that's fantastic. let's start there then. >> "new york times" must see and celebrated. >> do you really hate yourself? >> of course. i'm from california and they think they are fabulous. anyone that doesn't understand how stupid they are, no room in my life. >> you are saying you are self-aware. >> very deep. i'm shallow. i just hate myself. >> got it. i'm shallow too. is my sweater okay? >> okay for a serious person. i wouldn't send you on the red carpet. you are very thin and you should look more like the chics they do with the news. >> i am 45. >> never say that. from now on you are 39. >> i will say 46 before i turn 46. >> then they say you look great.

boy, she looks great for 90. wow! >> that's the philosophy. back to you. >> back to the people you hate. >> i hate celebrities who have quiet funerals. merrill streep who is the greatest actress in the world. in precious she played a black girl. you can do anything. >> she good. >> i want her crying. >> you hate parades? >> this is new york. all we have is parades. last week the jews marched. one line. that was a good parade. no jew will be in the second row. 5,000 jews from the hudson to the east river. this week it's a puerto rican parade. that's nice. that's baby mamas with their

grandchildren. that goes fast. i live fifth avenue. the japanese parade is the best. you don't see anybody. just bushes sneak up and take pictures. >> here we go. >> it's all in the book. all in this book. >>-i >>-you said she was thin and you said you hated thin people. >> i didn't say i liked mika. what i hate about thin people is that they are thin. i hate thin people and they smell of vomit. don't take it personally. we know why they are thin. fat people -- mayor bloomberg is wrong. we would not have christina aguilera today if she were not fat now. i heard somebody call her a big fat -- she tried to hang herself

and because she was fat the rope broke. we still have her. >> i don't follow. >> it's a joke. it's okay. come back to politics. >> you don't hate me? >> not personally. i hate your type. >> what are is it about my type? >> thin, pretty, blond, great eyes. screw you. i'm sorry. i like -- you are good-looking and smart. you have the package. >> really? you christian? you got it all. she's got it all. now you are set for the whole day. you probably can read this paper. the financial times. >> how about this one. old people. >> i hate old people. >> i hate old people who refuse to die. >> yes. enough. enough, grandma. i want the jewelry already. >> what's the cutoff? >> one-year-older than me.

old people, when you are online and you are double-parked and you have an older in front of you trying to write a check at the super market. let's move it. come on. get your nurse to do it. >> we were watching that clip from the movie. why did you decide to turn the camera on you? >> i decided because i love the girl that did it. she is say great documentary writer. i didn't want to do the pieces of everyone loves joan and comedy. it's hard work. i said just follow me around for a year and put anything that you can find. she was wonderful. she picked things that were terrific. the movie turned out to be amazing. >> it's amazing. >> it's not me, her.

her choices were incredible. >> people might have thought it was a laugh fest. >> you want to see stupid i love you. i never let them honor me. who are we going to honor this week? your turn. >> the movie on her -- the first movie that shows how raw show business can be. raw and dehumanizing. >> nobody talks about it. >> addictive. >> total addiction. >> hurtful in a deeply personal way. and lonely. >> but -- >> not lonely because you have a cute limo driver every now and again. also, let me tell you something. when i go on stage with 5,000 people and you tell a joke and all laugh, it's great. it's like you have 5,000 friends and we think the same thing is funny. that's the pay back. >> i hear you.

the book is i hate everyone starting with me. >> wait a second. hands up. >> it should say i hate everyone, starring with me-ka. >> i don't hate you in a bad way. she is furious because i have this great body. >> thank you so much. up next, wall street is coming off its strongest day of the year. will the momentum continue? brian sullivan is next. t there. t there. - one serving of cheese is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier...

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the celtics for game four of the eastern conference finals. i guess the game just ended in a tie. this is what my producer is telling me. there is the score. 89-89. went down to the wire. 21 seconds left and ended in a tie. let's move on to professional baseball. >> first time in history. >> 49 past the hour and time for a check on the business with the bell. brian sullivan live at global headquarters. what you got? >> the dow ended in a tie. >> be nice. this is a tough business and they take the women young. i'm sorry. then they pay for it. >> you guys are more successful than me, but i go back to my college. how do i get into?

it. that's my advice. we have all been there. >> it's a mean business and how many times have we been on the air and said something that didn't make sense? not conducive to job growth. it's not like i want to say the numbers were better than expected and last week was revised higher and the average moved up a little bit, but it's just math. i have to give you the numbers. here's the good news. the big boys are getting involved. china cutting interest rates and more hints from the federal reserve about coordinated action here. all the big boys at the party are starting to get together. markets could have a good day. there is that. >> brian sullivan, thank you so much. more "morning joe" in a moment.

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time to take a look at the west coast papers. the "los angeles times" said they plan to add a $1 tax to cigarettes is on the verge of defeat. there as many as one million votes left to be counted.

the dollar tax would not help the state budget. >> san jose may be the bell weather for the state when it comes to pension reform. they approved the plan to cut city pensions. governor jerry brown called it a powerful wake up call to reform pensions in a massive shortfall. >> newspapers in california have the death of ray bad bury on their covers. the ground breaking science fiction writer who penned fahrenheit 451 died at home in los angeles at 91 years old. what if anything did we learn today? up next. ♪ ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned from the famous "new york times" piece about john kerry. he owns flemish still life art so valuable the insurance company wouldn't allow it to be photographed for the article. >> but he doesn't like it. >> i learned that there is no more formidable googler. thank you. >> i can't put into words what i learned from joan rivers, but that was --

>> she is a role model. >> it's way too early. >> it is "morning joe." stick around right now for "the daily rundown" with the great chuck todd. >> tenacious d. whether it's shielding against the jobs numbers and the wisconsin recall or even wrangling president clinton. team obama seems stuck in response mode. politics playing defense. not the best offense. capitol hill shenanigan time. nancy pelosi told speaker boehner they should cancel the recess. it's the ninth recess this year and hammer out student loans and tax cuts. he sent a letter, but this one is to the president asking him to cancel his rally in las vegas today. if you can't beat them, join them. democrats so nervous about what happened in wisconsin now are begging for the dennors to fund contests all over the cou