stronger. of course congress refused to pass this jobs plan in full. >> politics has always to some degree involved blaming the other side. but now it seems that's all anyone does. our first guest wants to know when our leaders stop leading. so much so that he wrote a whole book about it. joining us now, the former governor of pennsylvania political analyst of nbc, ed rendell. he is an officer of a number of wusses. how american leaders lost the guts to make us great. i think everyone is thinking in their own way the same thing, which is those who have the most power, instead of becoming more accountable to solve problems seem to becoming less accountable and it makes everybody a little nuts. >> sure, and dylan, the biggest problem is our leaders are afraid to tell people the truth. i mean take a look at the

number one problem facing us the long-term deficit which could reach 15$15 trillion if we don't do something about it. the answer is fairly obvious. we have to cut spending and that does mean looking at the entitlement programs. we can take money out of the entitlement programs without administering too much pain and i think seniors are bright enough to understand that when medicare was put into law, the average life expectancy was 65 today it's 85. so there has to be some changes and we can do it without administering too much pain. and on the republican side they've got to talk sense into the people on that side, and if they can't convince them they've got to do it anyway take the risk and raise revenue because we're not going to do this without raising revenue. >> i know. but at the end of the day, as long as the power matrix, as long as the way -- so you and i are running against each other for any office i don't care what it is as long as the primary mechanism of power trading is my people and their

money paying to make ed rendell look like the biggest fool that's ever walked the face of the earth, you wouldn't let ed rendell watch your dog let alone your state or your city and then your people are saying dylan ratigan, i wouldn't let him take care of you know my dead lizard, and that's where we are. and i guess doesn't that naturally reward the most ir irrational, least honest most predatory, least ethical, most duplicitous character? isn't that the person who rises to the top in a system like this? >> and even worse, once they take office their reputation among the general public is so shattered that people don't believe government can do anything. and that's at the root of the problem because the government must do some things if we're going to get out of this there's no question about it. and i do you'll be happy to know dylan, have a whole

chapter about the influence of money and politics. >> but you're saying there is a culture of being a leader that's been lost. >> it has. there are times when some of our leaders step up the senators and congressmen who signed system b oerksowles, he told him to go pound sand, but most importantly gordon radevist to go pound sand. he had the guts to do the financial bailout, even though it was widely unpopular, had the guts to do the auto bailout, widely unpopular. had the guts to do health care right away even though his advisers told him not to because he thought it was the only time he had the votes to extend health care to 31 million americans. so there are times when we all do the right thing.

150 congressmen, as you'll recall dylan, sent a letter to the supercommittee right before they folded and said don't just do 1.9 trillion do 6 or 7 trillion and we'll stand by you. we're willing to take the hit. and there is a chapter in my book that i say stand and defend, some things are worth losing for. if you run for office and you don't believe there are things important enough that it's worth risking your job for, then you shouldn't run in the first place. and we can do this. you know there is a general air of pessimism out there. i believe after the election whoever wins, we've got about a four or five-month shot to really attack the problems of this country. that's the short term. in the long term i agree. we've got to get money out of politics. dylan, i say in the book -- you'll like this -- so let's get busy. we can do this guys. let's begin the long arduous process of mending the constitution. it will be hard but it will be

worth it. go to this website. >> you're pandering. >> i have to pander a little bit, i'm selling books. in the long term what you're suggesting, the 28th amendment, i go further and say to the occupy guys guys you made a good point. you focused attention on inequality in this country, but you didn't give us a road to do anything about it. so adopt the 28th amendment as your cause. don't just whine, do something positive. let's go. we can do this. >> that's a great call and great to come from you. i agree. i want to talk about the culture a little bit further because you talk about this in your book. because i really think that whether -- the wuss we've become a culture that tolerates

the wuss in america, i want to know where that comes from in a culture that's more tolerant of failure but less tolerant of wussiness, and now we're more tolerant of failure but less tolerant of wussiness. >> americans challenged the conventional wisdom and we did great things. i was watching the 75th birthday of the golden gate bridge. when they were talking about building the golden gate bridge nobody thought it could be done safely you can't do it it will be too expensive, but we did it. and it turned out great. we did the hoover dam, we did the erie canal, we did things and we did them fearlessly. we've lost all of that. part of it is the fall of we the people. we listen to lawyers and we listen to insurance adjusters who say there is an inch and a half of snow we've got to cancel school because someone might get hurt. >> and if you look at the

corollary to that the intolerance for experimentation and failure has exploded at the exact same time we need it. >> sure and no one is willing to take a risk because there is that intolerance. hey, there's nothing wrong with failing. you know bill gates, in some of of his ventures failed. abraham lincoln ran for office and lost 11 times before he got elected president. there is nothing wrong with failing. the only thing wrong is if you don't look for change to happen. we desperately need change. we need some of those risk takers back to lead the charge and my hope is we can find it. i think everyone knows we're up the creek. i think after the election there is a chance hopefully, that some brave people will step up and there will be some maturity and we won't get every vote to change things but we'll get enough to make a difference. and that's one of the reasons i wrote the book.

i also wrote the book because i wanted people to understand that even with the frustrations and challenges spending your life serving the public is funny, it's whacky, it's exhilerateing, and you don't make a lot of money and you get a lot of aggravation, but boy, is it worth it. >> and people call you a lot of names. >> that's right, but there are people who touch your arm quietly and say thanks. >> there's no doubt. thank you, governor i'm getting the book and i love the title -- >> and you dylan ratigan fans page 223 and 224. >> we'll put it on the dylan dylanratigan.com. there will be an excerpt in the book where he quotes me -- no. have a great weekend. >> thank you. >> ed rendell, former governor of pennsylvania. the good news leaders are emerging all over america even if you don't see them in washington d.c. we will bring you a d.r. special

report this afternoon about what will lead us back and here's a hint. it's all in the culture, my friends. but first, the latest move in new york that would get you, whoever you may be in more trouble for selling soda pop than dealing weed! ari fired off about this last week. the panel will be here after this. what's up with the size of our pre historic friends? you'll find out. follow the wings.

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the president talking today about the economy but nothing about the massacres in syria. some of the heaviest fighting has erupted in the capital of damascus. the company, in fact appears on the brink of a civil war. meanwhile, secretary of state hillary clinton and special envoy met to try to salvage a faltering plan to end the ongoing crisis. >> some say the plan may be dead. is the problem the plan or implementation? if it's implementation, how do we get action on that? and if it is the plan what other options do we have? >> let's bring in our friday mega panel, ari krystal ball and -- >> my wife is from bayeirut, she has a lot of family still there,

and i was just asking her what is the family there saying about what's going on. there is an open border between syria and lebanon. syria has a lot of control over what goes on in lebanon. so there is a lot of fear in lebanon about what's going on perhaps assad will leave lebanon and go somewhere else. >> is the biggest question basically where do we stand in the fantasy of external power over the middle east, whether it's american external power, chinese, russian external power, and what's the balance between the fantasy of external influence, which we sort of lived in since world war ii in the middle east and the reality of what's going on inside the communities or the people that live in the middle east who are being faced with murder from their own heads of state, who are being faced with resource deprivation and who are also -- have access to a lot more information and a lot more -- i feel like nobody really knows the score, ari. >> i think syria is a country in that region positioned between

the two places where we have leverage. we have leverage over egypt because it was the top in the usa and we've had a very tight alliance on the range of what we have in the middle east or saudi arabia being another example, so there is leverage there. then you have countries that have sanctions. syria is in the middle. it's a designated terrorist state. we don't have good relations and haven't for a long time but that means syria doesn't care at all about the massacres going on there unless we take greater action. in the u.n. context he's out there talking about implementation, but they want to include iran which is a piece of the picture, but so far many u.s. diplomats are concerned about that because we don't want to do anything to legitimize iran's role. so i think we are fairly con

skriktd stricted diplomatically unless we change the rules. >> to the extent syria cares what we think, they are able to make some change. syria is not going to stop massacring these children because of what we say unless they feel they want to. >> they are not going to be threatened by the rest of the world, and as long as assad feels like i have to keep this violence in order to keep this other sunni in check. surely the arab spring is going to put a fear in him like, i'm not going down. >> krystal? >> i think the point ari made is quite interesting and i hadn't thought of it in quite those terms. it does call into question our whole strategy the fact we don't do any business with syria means that when they massacre their people we have no leverage and they don't care that we want them to do x, y and z. it doesn't matter to them. and this is one of those places where the ideals that we

represent as a country, i mean the moral case for active intervention is clear. it's a no-brainer. but the geopolitical strategic is the country in the mood to go into another foreign country, i mean that part is much trickier. >> do we generally intercede in civil conduct? generally, no right? we allow other countries to have -- >> but when you have a ruler massacring their own people -- >> if you invade another country, we will perish. >> the moral case for a leader -- a dictatorial regime is murdering their own people. >> which has been the case since the beginning of the world. dictators kill their people -- is that our gig? we can't even feed ourselves. that's why this is painful to talk about. >> you have people who see it

just from that sort of pure utopian vision of this is the right thing to do. >> some people in this situation are more afraid of the alternative to assad than leaving him, and that's frightening. >> ari gets the last word and we'll move on. >> everybody understands these are terrible crises. the problem is moral claims too often overlap with stra teej i go interests and they don't drive the policy. so the bush administration normalized relations with libya. we had a detante after the pan am bombing. we basically said we'll work with you and then because of the moral conditions because of the longstanding moral treatment, we then go with other countries to take them out. so the fact that people rightfully worry about the murder but that doesn't mean

the policy is going to follow the concern. >> and in our own self view met metaphorically america in the middle east is like a schoolmarm. morally we're doing this and other times we're like no no no. >> as you know the economics is going to drive everything. in terms of saudi arabia they have us over a literal barrel. >> can we talk about our own problems for a minute? >> let's do it. >> here in new york city a soda ban has been proposed by the mayor which provokes of course the whole concept of should our politicians restrict the size of what we drink? on the other hand outside of new york city up in albany where the state is run, the governor is releasing things around marijuana. we kind of created a soda/pot thing, which john stewart had little choice but to do this with. >> if this bill passes and you

get caught with all this you get $100 fine. meanwhile, if a business sells you a soda that size that's a $200 fine. so just to be clear this soda is twice as illegal as this much weed. >> ari, you've said the benchmark for this show's view on soda your interpretation of the soda/weed parameters especially when you consider the number of youngsters particularly young black men we like to throw in jail on the weed thing, i feel like we've -- like this is a real cultural kind of -- something is going on here my man. >> john stewart put his finger on something. he hit on the idea that -- >> something. >> we know what.

>> the rule is if you have to explain the joke something is wrong with the joke. this joke you just get because there is an absurdity to this. there is in problem with people saying this is so unhealthy, you literally can't do it but this other thing, which was pot, maybe it's unhealthy, maybe it leads to other drugs was always the argument has actually turned out to be and this is the serious part the prosecution of low grade amounts of marijuana in new york city and around the country has turned into a mechanism -- >> a witch hunt. >> more than a witch hunt a mechanism to screen young african-american men at rates that are wholly inconsistent with their drug use. >> low grade marijuana possession is 2012 racism in the statistical sense. obviously, it occurs in a billion ways but i think there's something -- go ahead. >> just to that point, young white men and women are allowed to smoke marijuana, not be arrested not be prosecuted --

>> not stigmatize. >> -- not stigmatize. a young black man who is arrested for a marijuana crime will get a felony you can't get aid, go to public school live in public housing -- >> i get it. >> i know you get it but some in the audience are going, what about racism? you have to say, i am a felon. this is a completely false equivalency, and you can't go there's this and then there's this. >> is it our culture that is changing where, again, you've got one politician saying, oh everybody is figuring out the cheap corn syrup creates diabetes which is tied to health care, and i can score political points by being against the poison that's creating diabetes which is creating health care -- that's mike bloomberg -- then you have the other politician in the room going, i hear weed is legal now. and he's up in albany and there

are two cultural things happening, and then of course they leave the young black men, they're like -- and that's the horror show. >> in both situations, you could say we're wasting human potential, right, in arresting people -- if barack obama had been arrested when he was part of the chum gang in hawaii he would not be president, he wouldn't have gone to columbia he wouldn't have been a lot of things. >> in most cases, you're also wasting a lot of taxpayer dollars from the health care costs, and i'm with you on the soda ban. i am there. i'm not quite as outraged as you are. >> i think it's a good idea. >> there's health care and then there's imprisoning people for marijuana possession. when you look at the two, which one is actually less healthy? soda is actually less healthy for people. >> so john stewart is right. we should run a test. >> the comedian's false equivalency. we're a super sized nation of

fattyies fatties. we need to do something to slim it down. >> were you smoking before? >> he just had -- that was a d.r. show performance art -- yeah, that was a little jammed. anyway, we'll take a commercial. coming up proof dinosaurs did a lot more walking than we thought. cranberry juice? wake up! that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. this country was built by working people. the economy needs manufacturing. machines, tools people making stuff. companies have to invest in making things. infrastructure construction, production. we need it now more than ever. chevron's putting more than $8 billion dollars back in the u.s. economy this year. in pipes, cement, steel, jobs, energy. we need to

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because we know you've been wondering, it turns out dinosaurs are much more svelte than any of us thought. the way in which dinosaurs are measured. they measured the skin that would be wrapped around the animal and they compared it to the amount of skin they actually have and it turns out they actually have 21% more body mass

than the minimum skin and bone volume would allow for. resemparchers then applied that formula to the very dinosaurs themselves and found that it slashed weight estimates substantially. the brachiosaur which was thought to weigh 80 tons now maybe weighed only a spritely 23 tons. which would change the way we do things in museums. that video is of a four-foot femur bone from a woolly mammoth that is believed to be more than 1,000 years old. the gentleman dug it up in his backyard. now university of iowa is helping his excavate it and they're finding more and more prehistoric bones every day, which is pretty cool especially

if you have a big dog. next, we've come a long way since the dinosaurs. join us on a journey through america 2012 and why we're all primed for a brand new renaissance in fif we can take the head out of our politics. you'll be inspired by what you see. our cloud is not soft and fluffy. our cloud is made of bedrock. concrete. and steel. our cloud is the smartest brains combating the latest security threats.

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well the iconic message of bill clinton's 1992 campaign was the economy, stupid. we believe it's beyond the economy now. it's the culture, friend, is the new term. thanks to 27 road shows -- that's what those pictures were i was confused myself -- and a "new york times" best-selling book, we've had the opportunity to meet with community heroes across the nation who are leading the way to get more for less. it's happening in every system in our country by using new ideas and good old mission-based

culture as problem solving. take a look at some of the folks we've met along the way. >> embody the qualities of a spiritual warrior, a ruthlessness but with compassion. cunning in executing the shared interests. >> none of us want you dead or locked up. there are a couple of things you're doing that has to stop. and we want to engage with you so that we don't have to bury you and we don't have to lock you up. >> we first learned that 1% of the patients in camden are responsible for 30% of the costs. the fundamental theme is we've got to do a better job taking care of sick people and stop ignoring them. >> as the navy as the military is going green, we have veterans that are gearing up and getting trained to be a part of that work force. we come back with a different lens and an understanding that something needs to change.

a sustainability equals security. >> we need to make sure that people understand the real metric of the future for our ability to be the best in the world in the military to defend us is not capacity. it's no longer numbers. i think you would have a more efficient and effective military even putting less into it. >> it all begins with innovation and a new idea. it's no coincidence that most of these companies have been started by young people that the beginning team is a young group who doesn't know that they're not supposed to go change the world. >> we're working on economic issues that affect the middle class, so our two big wupzones for this year are foreclosures and also student debt. we need to get students mobilized and bring people together and get people to work on it, because it's a huge issue. >> the status quo is a two-party

system, but that two-party system is the incumbents versus the citizens. the citizens are losing. we can win if we engage but we must engage. >> and here to tell us more about the culture that everyone you just saw shares and so many others obviously not in the videotape like that and how different their culture is from our political culture is venture capitalist activist nick co hammeasure. hammer. he wrote a book called "the garden of democracy." nick, you say the answer for all of us if we want to be the type of community hero that you would see in a videotape like the one i just played and you look around and saw people doing incredible things with very limited resources, you say the answer to begin this is to challenge orthodoxy,

particularly your own. >> yes. >> the premise here has been i tell you, nick, what you're supposed to do and you tell me what i'm supposed to do, but we really never think about -- i never think about what i'm doing and you never think about what you're doing because i'm too busy yelling at you. you say that's a problem for some reason? >> yeah. i mean i think that what you find when you think about what we humans do is the beliefs that we hold most dear are almost always those that are most self-validating. they're beliefs that make us feel good about ourselves morally, emotionally and intellectually intellectually. i'll give you a couple of examples. if you're a very rich person the efficient market hypothesis orthodoxy is very self-validating because if markets are efficient, the rich deserve to be rich and the poor deserve to be poor. the efficient markets hypothesis

evil cousin trickle-down politics holds that if the rich business people get richer then everyone else is better off. obviously that's very self-validating. but it goes on the other side, too. if you are a teachers' union and your position is that if teachers are as rigorously graded as the teachers rigorously grade kids then that will be bad for schools and for kids then you're also defending an orthodoxy, which is very self-validating. i think that we improve our culture a lot when we examine our own orthodoxies and discover the ways they're self-validating and why that may lead us astray. >> why is this candidacy about liz perez, david hennessey, more for less with very incredible

results, that's what the garden is, right, that sort of yield. at the same time, we're talking about this not through the lens of rules and resources, which is how the political debate works, but through the lens of culture and the way we choose to interact with each other. and why is this a cultural conversation? why is what these people have in common a cultural issue, not a ruled resource correlation? >> you know, if you have a culture of innovation you're basically -- you know, you're creating people breeding a culture that's willing to challenge orthodoxy. that's unbelievably useful to a society, because when you challenge orthodoxy and innovate, you create new solutions to human problems which is essentially what civilization is all about. but i think we need to learn to be more self-reflective about our own orthodoxys because they block us from progress and that is just so endemic to both our

culture and our political climate, obviously. >> what is the up side? here's the thing. you're saying okay you've got to challenge -- you, dylan ratigan, i, me we're all the hero of our own story, right? i'll be the hero of mine. >> yes. >> i've got to challenge my own orthodoxy and encourage other people to be the hero of their own stories to figure out and challenge their orthodoxy. so i get to my orthodoxy, and you run into a pain wall. >> yes, you do. yes, you do. exactly. >> you run into a pain wall and you count is food, sex and the path of least resistance. that's human life and all life. food sex and the path of least resistance. so i see ed canouer on tv you're on tv i'm going to challenge my orthodoxy, i'm going to do this and i hit the pain wall, whatever the pain wall is for every individual and i'm like what the heck. is not the cultural issue that

we refuse to be ruthless enough or compassionate enough to go through that pain wall in order to get to where people like you and others are telling us we need to go. >> yeah. i think -- here's my perspective. if you're not getting hate mail in your life from conservatives and liberals you're probably doing something wrong. right? >> for sure. >> right? >> i made a living doing that the past three years. truly. >> if you're not getting hate mail from both sides, then you're probably doing something wrong. i guess -- you know another part of my perspective is informed by, you know what we discussed in our book which is that when you challenge the orthodoxys that frame how you see the world, that can open up really important new ways of understanding how the world works, and that can lead to progress. i think that the future holds progress not because we will learn to find agreement around

our current disagreements, but because a new way of seeing the world, for instance, our -- you know what we say in gardens is you have to see the world ecosystemically, what that will lead to is a new set of disagreements which will be much more fruitful than the extraordinarily stupid left-right continuum we're on. >> and when you go by the theerory we're discussing, the arguments in an ecosystem result in positive outcomes. the result in a linear system results in negative outcomes. right, win >> right, win/lose. >> we want to introduce you to someone who defined the culture not just for himself but as a standard for this country. 30-year marine colonel military vet on a new mission for all of us, next.

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and we've been comparing and contrasting leadership culture in the marine corps, especially when you accumulate influence as you did in your career compared to leadership culture in civilian life when folks accumulate influence. and i'm interested in how you compare and contrast the cultures or responsibilities of influence inside the marines and out. >> thanks dylan. good to see you again. nick, good to meet you and great book. >> nice to meet you. >> i tell you, in following the conversation so far, i will tell you that i think nick's ideal of complex systems and discussing them in biological terminology is something we're very familiar with. that's generally how we look at things as we would discern how we would run things as that would advantage some great organization because that inner dependency is critical and you need to work within the system. by working within the system you can emphasize the good get rid of the bad. the tending philosophy he has in

there is something i'm very familiar with. i think the difference in the marine corps standard style is you're dealing with marines. marines have been trained since day one how to be leaders. on the civilian side you don't have that benefit, but by the same token, you have an open sheet to work with. >> if you were to take something out of the marine corps, out of navy seals, out of the culture that really america has a tremendous degree of respect for, has a -- it sits in an aspirational model in this country, what are the tidbits that we could do better at in civilian life? >> i think the number one thing is this whole concept of in the military you lead by example. you're out in front of your people, they see you constantly. we're social creatures, and i think nick does a good job of identifying that in his book. so we tend to look at who our leaders are, we tend to evaluate them, and we tend to follow

mostly their model, if nothing else. and if you see in today's society, quite often some of our leaders don't exemplify that model. they don't really show us the way they want us to act. it's sort of do as i say, not as i do. i think the other thing is that in the military you're taught to be decisive not to be afraid to challenge notions and to get out in front of problems. and i think on the other side you see a lot of play it safe you know i don't want to make this decision yet, i don't want to face into any chaos, i want to just kind of back off from it and see if this thing settles down. that's not the way we teach our leaders. >> nick i had a long conversation with colonel conlin about this on the phone, and he was explaining to me that when you have a chaotic environment or an uncertain environment, an unknown environment, that that's an occasion to make a ton of decisions, that that's an occasion to create a ton of new opportunity. that is almost you know second

nature. you talk to someone like chris and he's like how else would you think about it? and yet in our civilian society, nick, our relationship with uncertainty is not to run toward it as an opportunity to make decisions but to run away from it. what do you think folks that have that fear -- or what are they missing? because there is a thrill in that that people who do do it like, but there is something missing for other folks of the they're like, why would you possibly do that? >> colonel, it's super nice to meet you and i have to admit one of my favorite books is the marine corpsman you'll on strategy which i have in my office and refer to frequently and i will quote you a piece from it that you may recall which is the risks of inaction are always equal to or greater than the risks of action. unfortunately, most people don't intuit that. most people fear taking action more than they fear just not acting. and i think the marines fortunately, have learned, probably the hard way, that

inaction almost never serves your purposes. it almost never leads to success. but in civilian life, people are chicken. our leaders are often afraid to move decisively and to make hard decisions. >> how do you deal with failure in the marine corps understanding the stakes are high? how do you reconcile the imperative to be aggressive, to engage understanding that there will be deficiencies along the way and how do you maintain the contingencies in your biological model to not only survive some of those failures but to push through them because you know even if you have individual failure that systemically you'll be able to continue on your path? how do you even calculate for that? >> three words: get over it. everybody makes mistakes and that's the way our system works. if you're not getting in trouble, you're not trying, and

i think i saw that mentioned in this book as well. >> if you're not adapting you're not dying. if you're not adapting you're not pushing the envelope. you've got to push the envelope you've got to make the decision -- i was asked just the other day when i was giving a class, what happens when there is no answer? when there is no answer you come up with one. if it's the wrong one, you adapt and change and get back on the right track. that's the answer to failure. >> thanks guys. it's we had to do this on tv rather than the telephone. it was glatreat to share this. colonel conlin we've played some tape of you in the past as you know. it was great to talk to you. >> good to see you. nick connauer chris conlin. should we all stop and think?

torri with the daily rant after this. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] we believe in thinking day and night... about your dog's nutrition. like the dual-defense antioxidants in our food that work around the clock... supporting your dog's immune system on the inside... while helping to keep his skin and coat healthy on the outside. with this kind of thinking going into our food... imagine all the goodness that can come out of it. just one way we're making the world a better place... one pet at a time. purina one smartblend. hi, i'm phil mickelson. i've been fortunate to win on golf's biggest stages. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit even the smallest things became difficult. i finally understood what serious joint pain is like. i talked to my rheumatologist and he prescribed enbrel. enbrel can help relieve pain, stiffness, and stop joint damage.

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one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit a tennis ball. - you know both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know. well here with friday's daily rant, none other than torri. >> i recently had the chance to talk to a police officer about the possibility of stop and frisk. cops call them 250s. that's the title of the form they use to perform the stop. the cop told they there is criminal profiling and racial profiling. they are different, though the cop admitted it is easy and common to slide from one into another. cops often decide who to stop based on a gut feeling which is surely informed by their time on the street where their senses

become finely honed. despite that 95% of all stops are fruitless. i think you could do better stopping people at random. kopt argued that the true effectiveness is unnoble because you will never know people who were detered from carrying a gun, because they were a young, black man they would be stopped and frisked. i was disturbed to hear that 250 reports go into a database and when cops are investigating other crimes they look at that database to see who to ask for intel or who could possibly be suspected of the crime. so stop and frisk is a way for police to delineate who is in their conception of the criminal underworld and who is not. the cop said there is no quota of stop and frisks which many wonder if there is. cops aren't told they must stop x number of people but they are compared to the cops around them and how many others they stop. but so-called quality stops are considered better than a

quantity of them. the cop said the cops are somewhat afraid of those ubiquitous video phones that keeps them from committing physical abuses that they used to perform regularly. and it gets in the way of a relationship between police and people of color, a relationship that was already bad, but this does stop a young black man with the experience of being stopped, being touched and accused of a crime even if they're not committing one. i walked away from the conversation still certain that stop and frisk is a dangerous violation of the spirit of the fourth amendment which guarantees no unreasonable searches. stop and frisk gives too much power to the police. it gives them a minority report sort of power to question people who are not doing anything but who the cop can articulate why they think that person might be thinking about doing something

or having already done something or -- as the correspond told me many criminals are polite and nice even when talking to the cops. the logic that many black men commit crime, thus we must question many black men about whether or not they are committing criminal -- or whether they are criminals does not work and it's evidence of how america has failed its young black men by assuming they are criminal. >> many things are going to change in this generation it's clear. we were just having this conversation. food sustainability 90% more food. am i naive to think that we are the generation that will be -- have the audacity to actually see what we've been doing with young black men and change it? >> i don't think so. >> our generation. i mean the next ten years. >> i know i know. >> you don't think so. >> we are having a challenge to stop and frisk, we are having a challenge to the marijuana. we toppled the rockefeller drug woes. >> three strikes.

>> what this cop told me that stop and frisk will not go away. it will be here and cops will learn how to deploy it better such that there is less scrutiny. >> that's one cop. i think we're going to fix it. i would hope so. i mean it's a joke that we have. i'm dylan ratigan. "hardball" is up right now. those other olympic games. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with this war in peace the president started today. listening to the president today, i got the clear impression that we the united states is doing everything we can to avoid another shooting war in the islamic world. if we get into such a war by bombing iran or working with israel in such an active