where we give you tips and advice to help your business grow. well we certainly spent a lot of time asking how can government do things better to help small businesses, we also note that it does have a number of programs out there to help entrepreneurs. officials in the nation's capital tried to get the word out about these programs during the recent national small business week. >> the president talks about an economy built to last. and we know that small businesses are going to be a big part of job creation in the future. >> small business owners from around the country descended on washington, d.c., for national small business week to attend events and ceremonies held by the u.s. small businessed a nrgs. >> we are very, very excited. >> from breakout sessions to kneltworking events, the main focus was on helping entrepreneurs in three key areas. the three c's. capital, contracts and counseling. >> without the capital, you can't continue your business or even consider to grow it.

so, obviously, getting the sva loan really helped us make the jumpstart and actually our second sva loan took us to a new building and we were able to double and triple our size eventually. >> though it can be a time-consumer process, business owners were encouraged to pursue contracting opportunities. >> small businesses get the revenue they need to grow to create jobs and the federal government gets access to some of the most innovative small businesses, the most creative businesses. oftentimes with a direct line to the ceo. >> mark deveaux is a co-lead sponsor of national business week and talked to us about the main resource score provides. >> some people want to grow, some people want to exit their business so we are there to help them with that. >> exporting was also a hot topic. since the increasing demand for u.s. exports creates huge opportunities to grow business internationally. >> if growth is occurring around

the world at two-thirds of overall global growth growing outside the united states, it's really imperative for small businesses to realize there's a lot of opportunity outside the united states for those sales. >> we decided that we wanted to do this international business. within the company we chose three markets and then we concentrated on those three markets and in a matter of three years we are doing a lot of market research, it basically had begun from there. >> and no discussion about growing your business connections is ever complete without talking about the power of social media. >> people are changing their business models. there's been so many technological innovations and how do you make yourself standout in the pact. there's been a move toward the experimental presentation. so you're not just saying, here's what i'm selling or he's my service. it is sort of making the experience about the whole thing. >> you can use social media to

find like-minded people. think of needles in the haystack. it is not just connecting with other business owners or customers or partners in your local community or even the neighboring towns. you can just as easily connect with somebody in india as you can in indiana using social media. >> the week was busy and the sba is hoping that small business owners come away with it knowing where to go when they need help. >> we believe every small business should have an adviser or counselor. and that will help them grow their business. so if you go on sba.gov and put in your zip code, you can find those resource that is are nearby. and most of them are free. every small business owner has to deal with rules and regulations. but what should you do if there's one that's putting a strain on your company? one craft brewer certainly understands your frustration since he saw a state law that he

believed was standing in his way. instead of sitting back, the makers of bur like furious and abrasive ale took his case to the capital and won. >> it was a pretty small change, but it's still a little piece of legislation that made a big difference for us. it's good for the state, it's good for business, it is good for minnesotans, why wouldn't we want to do it? >> omar in minnesota already has plans in mind more expanding his business. >> we never thought we would experience this type of success. it has been fantastic. the first year 2006 we sold 1600 kegs of beer. and this year we are on base to sell 40,000 kegs of beer. >> his beer is so popular there's a waiting list for new customers. with so much demand, omar had to focus on increasing his supply. >> we cannot make enough beer,

so we have to cap our growth at this building or build a new facility. >> he decided to open a second location. simple, right? well, not in this case. because of this decision, omar had to become the driving force behind a change in state law. >> minnesota is one of those states where you could not sell someone a glass of beer at a production brewery. >> in other words, he can sell it in bars, restaurants and liquor stores but that was about it. >> when someone comes in for a tour, we give them beer, that's all free. so it is not legal for us to charge them for that glass of beer. some states you can do that, some states you can't. >> the second brewery omar wants to build would have a restaurant and bar. he wants to sell his own product and that's what put him on a collision course with the law. >> if we can somehow manage to change this law that breweries can sell a glass of beer, then we are not just building a bigger brewery but a bigger destination. >> with the political battle brewing, he recruited a team to take it to the capital. >> i said i wanted to change the law because i wanted to build a

brewery unlike anything else we have in minnesota. and i said, sounds good, where do i sign on? >> omar hired lobbyists and experienced the expertise of clint of the company one simple plan. >> i realized what exactly he wanted to do and realized it was a 78-year-old prohibition but a and said, well, this is going to sam only -- this is not going to happen in two weeks. this is going to be something that when we map it out, we have to stay relevant for months to even have a fighting chance. even with that, who knows, but let's go for it. >> this despite some support, omar felt resistance from the start. >> there were a lot of people who didn't want to see that change happen, just that's the way the politics works. usually when the laws are there, there's someone who wants to keep them that way. >> he had to prove his campaign was not just about selling pints of beer. >> we made it more about small business, big idea, free market, this guy wants to grow his

business, why is anybody standing in his way let alone the government. >> omar argued that this wouldn't be the only brewery to benefit. his message was focused. hundreds of jobs could be created with a minor legal change. >> it kind of become a jobs bill that we have a lot of opportunities to do some stuff here and let's do it here as opposed to another state. this is about jobs. >> state representative jennifer loon was one of the sponsors of the surly bill shchlt e believed it was an opportunity to give the local economy a boost. >> what he was seeking was a minor change n my opinion, to kind of the liquor statutes in the state of minnesota. that's one of the reasons i came to the legislature to break down the barriers and cut the red tape. >> representative loon says the law put small businesses at a disadvantage. >> that's how most businesses start, is somebody and an idea, and we have to make sure we are not putting road blocks in their way. aren't we sheer to provide opportunities and create job? >> when surly's appeal took on deaf ears, they took the fight

public. >> the fight had to be taken outside the capital doors and really, the people are going to have to kind of help us out and support us. >> fans of surly brewing, better known as surly nation, were mobilized and quickly took action. >> we said, please contact your legislators because they have been waiting, what can we do? we finally said, all right, call them, e-mail them, tell your friends and family, please, if you want to see this bill pass, we need your help. >> facebook and twitter turned into base camps for surly supporters as the team spent hours making its case. >> it was a way to rally our troops but also bring everybody together, here's what they are saying, here's what this means to the project and here's what we need to know for the next step. >> the support for surly nation never waivered as lawmakers got a steady stream of phone calls. >> they started to take concern with surly nation. it was about small business, it was about beer and the evolution of a company. >> legislators took notice and a

process that can take years turned into just months. with overwhelming support in the minnesota house and senate, this surly bill became law in 2007. the result? >> breweries like ourself can get a tap room license, so that means we can sell beer that we make here at this facility. we can sell that beer in a tap room, just glasses of beer. >> with a win in the surly column, they are finalizing plans for expansion. omar says the fight was worth it because the bill opened the door of growth for everyone. >> one of the reasons is it takes a tremendous amount of cash to open a brewery. you can see all the equipment you have to get, so just being able to sell someone a pint of beer is a huge advantage. we'll see see a lot of other breweries now open up with the law changing. and it's just going to make the beer scene here a better place. many small business owners complain that what they see as

useless regulations are hurting their bottom lines. we'll turn to this week's board of directors. we have the founder of a company that creates teen building experiences and managing director of ladies who launch in new york and new jersey. and larry is a small business consultant that you can find online. he's author of the new book "small town rules: how big brands and small businesses can prosper in a big economy." great to see both of you guys. >> great to be here. >> what this story has taught me is to take things in your own hands. it would be very easy for this guy to say, i'm just going to build a bigger brewery, forget it, too much work, change the law. he took it in his own hands and it worked. >> it's the true story of not taking no for an answer and then really amended what isn't serving the community and isn't serving the nation anymore. laws are there to protect us. this wasn't -- this minor change didn't really stand in the way of anyone's rights. and it offered business and

beer. what better cause could you rally around? so that's awesome. >> well, j.j., small businesses have been doing this for a lot of year. way back in 1993 my friend steve miller and his family business, the quilt corporation, they went up against north dakota, the state of north dakota, who wanted to collect state sales tax for their mail order business. but they didn't have a presence in the state. they took it all the way to the supreme court and the quilt corporation won. this was significant because it goes to the internet retailers now who don't have to collect tax in a state where they don't have a presence. in this case, a small business had a huge impact. >> we did a story a couple years ago about a company in new jersey. it was a spa. basically there was one-hour parking on main street and said, all our experiences last more than an hour, so this is really hurting our business. they went door to door basically and fought the law in the town. but it took a lot of work. i mean, this is not something you can take on lightly. if you're going to do something like this, you have to have the

time and the money to build a coalition. >> and put together a team. i would really like where surly beer put together a p.r. team and lobbyists because that's what it takes and make it bigger than just your business. i loved how they made it about small business. in the end, most legislators really do want to promote the small business opener. >> and he really used facebook and social media. >> right. i think the fact they had a huge community and a passionate following, people love this beer. there's a high demand. it's easy for people to rally around that. and certain businesses might not have that advantage, but so using social media to really push is really smart. >> and we just talked about this a second ago, but it is also important to if you can get together with other businesses, there's power and money, right? i mean in numbers. then you have more money to high somebody like the lobbyist. >> exactly. >> i think it is a great story of seeing something that seemed insurry mountable. i love the line where he just said, i want to change the law. >> small businesses are known

for, we never back down and just go for it. >> and it worked. thanks, guys. >> thanks. for your small business to compete with the industry leaders, you have to dress the part. here now are five ways to make your business look bigger without the hefty price tag courtesy of ink.com. one, hire a virtual secretary. set up a toll-free number with a customized receptionist at your home office. services like e-voice and freedom number will help your company's image seem more polished. two, host more professional conference calls. ditch three-way calling in favor of a hosted conference call. services like simple toll free help you set up toll-free extensions for group conversation and also offer optional audio recording. three, get out of your basement. try regions, it accessing conference rooms and equipment at multiple locations on demand. four, outsource graphic and logo design. this will help you set a budget

and project description. then people compete to submit potential industries for your logo and web design. and number five, add an online store. options like goodsie and shopify offer easy ways to set up shop in the web. seth goden has been called america's greatest marketer. he's written 15 best-selling books, writes the most popular marketing blog in the world and inspired countless business owners giving them advice on how to run their companies effectively. and he walks the walk well. he's founded dozens of companies, some very successful like review.com and some not so successful, so he knows what he's talking about. we invited him on the show today to talk about what as business owners we should not be doing. as a true expert in marketing, i wanted to hear from him the biggest peeve mistakes he sees people making so we do not do them. thank you so much for coming on the show. i really appreciate it.

>> thank you. >> you tell us how to do our marketing, but i'm interested personally, frankly, what are we all doing wrong? what are you going to tell me today that i'm going to say, oh, god, i shouldn't be doing that and he's right. >> sometimes it is pain to feel be in business. sometimes things are just not working and we fall into the traps of being impatient, self-absorbed and being selfish. i bought this ad so i have the right to put it in front of you. we say, i only have three weeks to make my marketing campaign work. if you really needed it to work in the next three weeks, you needed to start two years ago. we get self-absorbed and say, i understand my business, i'm in it every day. i'll going to assume everyone else understands my business as opposed to taking a step back and realizing no one owes you their attention and no one owes you their money. when we bring humanity and generosity and clarity to the way we do business, all the mistakes go away. >> chiropractor practically

speaks, i'm self-asoshed, my product is great and you should get it, practically speaking, what do i do? >> i love going to farmer's markets. if you go to the farmer's market and this guy has better strawberries because he's using less of something else, he'll tell you the details. no one is waiting there because this guy has a story resonating with me. and that's what we do for a living, we tell stories, not slogans, stories. "little red riding hood" is a story. once you have heard it, you'll remember it your whole life. it resonates and matches the way we want to see the world. when we see a kid with a lemonade stand, it is different than when we see a vending machine selling lemonade. even if it is the same product, because the story around it is what people are paying for. so when i meet small business people, all i ask them is not what's their balance sheet but what's their story. why should i pick you? why do i care about what you're doing? if you start giving me all the inside baseball statistics about why you are 2% better than some

other competitor, i'm already glazed over because that's not how i see the world. >> so if i'm hearing you right, get out of myself and put myself in your shoes and better understand how my product helps you from my perspective and not from mine. >> exactly. steve cooker wrote a great book called "it's not rocket surgery." brain surgery plus rocket science. what he recommends you do is set up a video camera and have people visit your website. then watch them do it, right? or you stand in the store and watch people walk up to where your product is and they didn't pick it up. why didn't they pick it up? they go over to change the shelf to see if they pick it up. i will put my books in the store for the store to have and just stand there to watch to see what they see on the back cover. if they walk away, i'll walk over to them and say, was that book interesting to you? and i can understand what they are seeing. because they are the ones who are buying from you, not you. >> you have some really interesting examples in one of your books, "the purple cow"

about how we think about spending marketing dollars on marketing, traditionally it was on television and ads in magazines and now maybe it is on facebook or search engine marketing, but you say a lot of the marketing dollars should be spent on the product itself. >> what we grew up with was madmen. madmen was advertising in markets with the same thing. if you spend enough money in marketing you would succeed, but now that's over. what we are left with is the product is marketing. look, we have google, we have facebook, we've got e-bay, we've got amazon, none spend money on advertising. they spend all their money on making something people will talk about. if you think about the leaning tower of pisa, they didn't make it lean on purpose, but if you go to pisa, there are tons of tourists there. because if you see the leaning tower, you can talk about it when you go home. where it doesn't matter that just 100 miles away is the parthanon, one of the most beautiful buildings in the world. it is subtle and easy to talk

about. are you going to build something as interesting as the leaning tower of pisa. are you going to make a product or service that when people are done using it they can't help to tell their friend about. >> and can you communicate that in an easy way. >> not the facts, the story. >> seth godin, really appreciate you coming on to share your thoughts. >> thanks, j.j. when we come back, we'll have more on small business in washington. should the head of the spa be elevated to a cabinet-level position? and an entrepreneur's conundrum. sell clothing online or in an apartment store? you know, those farmers, those foragers, those fishermen.... for me, it's really about building this extraordinary community. american express is passionate about the same thing.

they're one of those partners that i would really rely on whether it's finding new customers, or, a new location for my next restaurant. when we all come together, my restaurants, my partners, and the community amazing things happen. to me, that's the membership effect. it's time now to answer some of your business questions. stella and barry are with us once again. the first question is about the best place to sell your product. >> i'm not sure whether or not i should start live online immediately or market my store to other retailers such as bloomingdale's macy's, h&m, saks fifth avenue or do both? >> i have an opinion but i'm interesting to hear what you say. >> you have to do it all. try all the channels.

scott jordan is the ceo out of idaho. he has an innovative travel ware. years ago he went to retailers and said, would you like to sell me product? he got a resounding no. he got great buzzes online and they started calling him. you have to try everything for it to work. >> i second that. retailers want to see traction, so why not start your own traction and develop press. you don't want press that doesn't lead anywhere, so you want to be selling product when you're developing press and come to the retailers to say, look at all that momentum, be a part of the action. >> i was going to say the same thing. it is pretty easy and cheep. the other products are doing it. let's move to the next one. this is about the head of the sba and about president obama's cabinet. >> i want to know if you believe this will help spur the growth of small businesses in the united states or will it hinder businesses in the united states? >> it is interesting, this

happened a couple months ago with karen mills elevated to the cabinet. is it a good thing? >> i saw her and congratulated her. her and president obama passed 18 tax cuts and were able to facilitate $30 billion worth of lending last year. and more important, over the last few years, they have been able to facilitate $300 billion worth of awarding of federal contracts for small businesses, and that goes right to the revenue line. so they have made a huge difference. >> also, this has made our government more efficient because they are not overlapping agencies. they estimate they are about to save $3 billion in this move by streamlining the small business association in the cabinet. and it's always great to have the year of the president. and this is not the first time it has actually happened. this was happening under the clinton administration and stopped with bush. so i think it's a great thing. >> okay, good. we'll move on to the next one. here's an entrepreneur who wants to know about the best use of her time. >> my question would be, the most effective way in which i

can manage the multiple hat that is i wear in the process of growing and expanding my business. >> it's the hardest question. the way i do it is i have a to-do list. and it is all mixed up together. my work, my personal life, everything and i just -- that's the way i do it. do you have any suggestions? >> i have two suggestions. one is you really want to understand the purpose of what you're doing and why you're doing it, because if you're not really motivated and do see what it is lathering up to, you areless likely to stick with it. so you want to have a real purpose with all the to-dos and see what they are going towards. the other thing, and this happens with entrepreneurs all the time, they do get completed greeted because they don't stop and rest. tony schwartz publishes a lot of great stuff on this. he writes on the harvard review business blog and talks about how stress is not the enemy. it is non-stop stress that's the enemy. stress helps the muscles grow, physically, emotionally, spiritually, professionally,

that's what expands us. but you need to have stress, you need to have rest in between. >> you have to take some breaks. >> you have to take some breaks. take a nap if you can. just walk outside. because that's really going to help you keep going. >> how do you manage your time, barry? >> basically, what people have to do and the biggest milk take they make when getting up to go to work, they jump on facebook and twitter and it takes them off in a totally different direction. the night before think about the to things you want to accomplish the next day that will really make a difference in your business and do those two things before doing anything else and you'll see your productivity level rise. >> she writes a list of here are the ten things i need to do and then goes through and says, okay, which ones can only i do? and anything that she can delegate to someone else she delegates to someone else. to your point, someone else said to me, i where write down five

things and don't look at my e-mail until i get through two of them. >> i like that. >> really good. it is so easy. i fall into the trap of just, it is so easy to procrastinate by answering really important e-mails you have to get back to. >> our attention lasts for 50 minutes. if you put on a timer and say, i'm not going to stop for the next 50 minutes. >> 50 or 15? >> 50, 5-0. >> if any of you have a question for our experts, just go to the website. the address is openforum.com/yourbusiness. once you get there, hit the ask the show link and submit a question for our panel. again, that website is openforum.com/yourbusiness. or if you would like, e-mail us your questions and comments. the address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. stella and barry had really helpful advice on how to improve your business. now let get some great ideas from small business owners like

you. >> my advice to small business owners is to continue marketing in all forms. directly on social media marketing and other events. >> i recently read to never assume that anyone is smarter than you are. and in business, that is so important. for me, i have to believe in my ideas, believe in what it is i want to accomplish and go and establish them. i cannot assume anybody is ever smarter than me because it is me at the end of the day who benefits from my ideas. >> my advice to any small business owner is to really take the long view. i know it can be difficult from time to time. you'll have a lean month, you'll have a great month and it can be really difficult to keep going and keep pushing through, even though there are hurdles to overcome. but really, the people that take the longer view, the people that keep their eye on the prize, see what's coming down the road, those are the people that are going to be most successful in

their businesses. are you a subscription-based business where managing your billing system is taking up all of your time? then check out the website of the week. zuora.com helps simplify the accounting process. you can define different billing periods to fit your needs and everything is synced for easy management. to learn more about today's show, just click on our website. it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. you'll find all of today's segments plus web-exclusive content with more information to help your business grow. you can also follow us on twitter, it's@msnbcyourbiz. don't forget to become a fan of the show on facebook. we love getting your feedback. next week, we meet a window-washing company that's letting its scottish pride show and catching potential customers along the way. >> you see a truck drive down the street and do a double-take. you see a guy walking down the street in a kilt, and a lot of

people come up to us and talk to us all the time. >> we'll learn how this entrepreneur is using a clever hook partnered with world class service to expand his business. until then, i'm j.j. ramberg. and remember, we make your business our business. they have names like idle time books and smash records and on small business saturday they remind a nation of the benefits of shopping small. on just one day, 100 million of us joined a movement... and main street found its might again. and main street found its fight again. and we, the locals, found delight again. that's the power of all of us. that's the power of all of us. that's the membership effect of american express.

america's prisons, dangerous, often deadly, there are 2 million people doing time. every day is a battle to survive and to maintain order. >> down on your feet! >> among the nation's most notorious institutions san quentin state prison. our cameras spent months documenting life on the inside where gangs and drugs and sheer bore domestic make up a violent mix. this is lockup san quinton, extended stay. as the oldest prison in california, it is steeped in a violent history, taking in and distributing inmates from 17