fire had ceased, i think it's a remarkable testimony and something we can all learn from. i irritate you. you never forgive me. you never forgive me. i'm trying to suggest there's a different way for you. >> you might have noticed since i lost my temper on television last year that i've chosen a different path that is much more of the apollo 13 mentality, constructive. what do you have and how do we work this out. >> also, your book, let's be honest, perfectly honest, is all about being constructive. >> and redemption. i think people don't realize how unique this country is. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> and say oh, that's the place where even after you make mistakes and fail, if you are ruthless and compassionate and

resolve, you can proceed forward, which i think is the best way out of here. >> you should redeem the time of your show right now. >> i know. i'm going to get fired. oh, hang on, friday -- we all know. okay. good afternoon, today, a tale of two elections and potentially some redemption or least the opportunity for it. first of all, egypt. today's big story. greece or greece lightening. the new leader is already out trumpeting. the former coalition that will allow them to sewer a fns structure but rather kick it down the road while enforcing new austerity measures. not either/or anymore. the it's both.

joining us today is the president of come back america initiative, david walker. with a culture of resilience in this country, this is one of those situations where it appears to be their problem and it's unclear to me if i'm in ohio, north carolina, nevada, why i should care that much about why, about greece and germany. >> there's financial and there are historical reasons. from the financial reason, the world is an interconnected and independent place. what happens over there affects the financial markets. what happens there affecting the economy in europe which affects demand for our goods and services here. what happens has an effect on what we have the pay on interest rates. we're a temporary safe haven. we're paying low interests because of uncertainties there. that won't last. our numbers aren't that much behind some of the countries in trouble. >> we're ruthless about our own financials. >> think about history. this is the failed democracy.

it was the greatest civilization on earth at one point in time. it once controlled most of the known world, but it strayed from the principles and values which made it great. liberty, value and opportunity and stewardship and variety of issues like that. we need to learn from history, from others to make sure that we create a better future and there's an opportunity to do that. >> expand on that. what's the upside? >> frankly, what's happening in europe is they're trying to do too much too fast in the way of austerity. here in the u.s., we're not doing anything. we're not doing anything with regard to targeting investments to help grow the economy and deal with our critical infrastructure and energy needs. at the same point in time, we're not doing anything to be able to deal with health care costs. >> one, hysterical response to the crisis. we've got to go everything, which is europe.

the other, either denial or out to lunch, the american response. there is a third response that is neither of the above and i'd be interested in your definition of what that is. >> we need to take steps to try to get the economy growing today. that means targeted investments to help grow the economy and deal with some of our critical needs. at the the same time, with a clear, credible, concrete plan to deal with social insurance programs, to deal with defense and other spending and modernize our taxes to generate more revenues. we have to do that in an integrated and coordinated fashion. i believe it's achievable, but not before 2014 and in order for it to be acleavable, the presidential election has been to be about the economy, jobs and fiscal responsibility. they're all interrelated. we have to know where these candidates are coming from. they have very different visions so that the american people can make an informed judgment on who

to support and so whoever wins will have a mandate for action. >> what kind of action should the average voter be asking of both candidates so we don't get lost on the seesaw of who's worse than the other guy as opposed to everybody pushing on both guys to deal with the complexities of the tax code, the need to deal with the banking system, trade agreements and all the things that i've beaten the table hard about. >> we need to break it down and start asking specific questions about what would you with regard to social security, with regard to health care. what would you do if regard to our taxes. what are you going to do with regard to the fact that even if we have a budget, which we haven't in three years, we only control 37% of spending. what do you do about the fact that we're the only modernized nation on earth that doesn't have a budget for health care?

no matter what the supreme court decides on the affordable care act, we have over promised. >> there's a sense though and i'm sure you're aware, that nature of the debate of the presidential candidates is more focused on why the other guy is terrible than on why the the guy is good. in other words, the voters in a lot of folk think are disgusted by being not bind into a debate like the one you described, but the debate based on whether i can scare the living daylights out of you about what would happen if he got the job or if he keeps the job depending on your point of view without any conversation about the things you laid out so eloquently on this show. >> too many of our campaigns are focused on personalities and the past. rather than solutions and how to create a better future. it's very, very important that the presidential debates this year be focused on substance and

solutions. this country's a great country. probably the greatest in the history of mankind and we have some serious problems. that we need to confront. we need to learn from history. we need to learn from others. if we do, if we draw upon successes and inject the failures, we can create a better future that will be more, more of many things that by the way, will be affordable and sustainable rather than where we are now. >> and that's what we've even discovered when talked to karen and collin later in the show, some of the farmers we've met along the way who happen to be a marine veteran and a lot of folks that are showing you choices, any category. >> i'm trying to till the soil to help prepare the way so that elected officials who will do three things. provide truth, leadership and solutions can help us see the way forward, create a better future so our future will be

better than our paes pr our country, our kids and grand kids. >> it's a big one. the world's biggest roto tiller. thank you for tilling the soil. thank you for all the best. i look forward to working with you in the future. it's nice to know you. david walker. we take a break here. coming up, we talk greece in america. next in our tale of two elections, some egypt. how egypt, their stories could affect our own race in 2012. the megapanel in the middle east and as the the markets respond to the developments out of greece, we'll ask dan gross if not cuts in austerity, then what should they do to revolve the european crisis? we'll talk to dan. plus, wow, how now. i just mentioned it. during our final five shows, we are exploring what those three little words mean for the gigantic future that's ahead for all of us. our cloud is not soft and fluffy.

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new chaos in the streets of egypt after both candidates claimed the victory over the weekend's election. it's expected to continue. the dispute, that is, until at least thursday when the final vote count will be brought in. meantime, the egyptian military has issued a constitutional decree granting the army sweeping power. if you're wondering who's running the country. this playing out as president obama attends a summit in mexico where he met this afternoon with

vladimir putin. a meeting that e did include talks about the situation in the middle east, specifically, russia's support through the sale of equipment to the butcher, assad, in syria. our last monday megapanel is here. the military is running egypt. fair to say? sort of -- is that -- >> it's short of a total coup, i think, because it's a coup if muslim brotherhood gets confirmed and the military really succeeded in depriving the presidency of the power. >> their authority. >> but it's from an american perspective, we've got a coup or possibly a democratic majority that's very anti-american and this replacing mubarak. >> over here? >> well, the military's been in egypt since 1952.

it's no big surprise. >> is this like the royal family in england? >> it's no big surprise the military are acting as they are. of course, america and europe now in a tricky situation that it is in global society. we have to start having less hypocritical policies. >> which gets us to really if you look across every problem that we talked about in the history of this show ends with a really uncomfortable situation that affects a few powerful people that nobody knows how to resolve and we end up with this chicken dance everything but that. egypt is another anecdote that illustrates that. at some point, we're going to have to get beyond blaming each other and needing to resolve these things. i'm assuming it will happen spontaneously because the situation will call for it. i just don't know whether we

have any -- i mean, our relevance to that part of the world at this point in time. >> i mean, the only relevance that i can imagine is that a lot of these military personnel were trained in the united states and we know that the pentagon has really close ties to these military leaders. it remains to be scene if they're going to be successful in creating a sort of pakistan style military junta there and i don't know if once you have the power of the people released in a way that it was over the arab spring, if you can put that genie back in the bottle. >> two completely unrelated issues. one, oppressed women. oppressed students, oppressed forever. not in saudi arabia. okay? allies, american allies, enemies, doesn't matter. oppression and this new age of communication where people regardless of what any foreign

power, they're going to be more resistant to that oppression. simultaneously, you have the unique dependsy of the american relationship with that part of the world for its energy sour sourcing and stability. those two things are converging together. >> with the upside of the technology of the people to be more educated in regardless of society, shows it's easier to overthrow bad government, but setting up a good government is no easier and the idea, this sort of wood row wilson idea, we need democracy, we need to overthrow -- imperial foreign policy. but it's also an idea that sort of western styled democracy will work and will be good for us. where ever it happens. egypt might be a real test because as far as i know, it's democratically elected islamic state. >> but the hypocrisy is at the

root of the problem. western hypocrisy relative to going back forever with lots of part of the world. at the same time, pointing fingers as to whose false it is is useless and we ultimately everybody wants the same thing, which is idealy not killing each other and full of energy resources and increased in opportunity. period. how do you see -- what's your best model i guess of high powered conflict resolution as a model for america? in other words, when you look, i'll ask ali the same question. where would you point for a role model to america while unwinding the hypocrisies ruthlessly, but still being able to solve the problem. >> i think very important today is what putin and obama were

talking about in regards to syria. russia knows the weapons they sold to syria. they know how many chemical weapons are sitting in syria. how do you arrange that transition and oh to be a fly on the wall to see if they're actually stepping up and to lead. that's what we require now from our leaders. >> i'm a little skeptical about premise. i'm not convinced that everybody wants the same thing. >> there's no question that power doesn't want it. when i say everybody, i'm more referencing a lot of the disenfranchised. >> well, the people without the power. how do they revolve against it? just exactly what is the agenda of the powerful? there's a lot of money to be made by a lot of powerful people in the world and they have their own agendas which don't necessarily reflect those of the average citizens. >> this is an important point. i think where sam and i have agreed, is that when people a

lot of times hear arguments for coming together, for finding the center of the road, a common sense solution, it's i guegnori the fact that some wanting to go this way, some that way. if you want to row this way and i that way, it's not a question of we need to coordinate better. we have different ideas. >> but at the end of the day, once you get through an apollo 13 structure are with there's two ways to go, there's a point where fighting becomes incredibly low yield. >> but somebody's got to win to settle it. >> or there has to be a resolution. i would argue that whether it's winning the fight or some sort of resolution that says okay, we disagree on this thing, but we agree on this thing, so why don't we work on the thing we agree to. i would argue there's two ways to revolve it. through the victor and something else. the panel's going to stick straight ahead. our specialest joinstous explain why austerity has not been the

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away from the worry of the global financial world to the worries of roger clemens. the jury has reached a verdict in the clemens purgery trial. he faces a maximum 30 years in prison and a $1.5 million fine convicted on six counts purgery. we'll give you the verdict when we get it. meanwhile to the issues of the earth, seems the only thing greece can count on for its future is uncertainty coupled with the pain of austerity pressur pressures and the tax hike. how about taxes and austerity? our specialist today says austerity along with taxes is not working and will only lead

to more problems. he says just look at ireland and greece. they are playing by the so-called austerity play book, but the market is still treating them like junk. in other words, if you want to borrow money and you're one of those countries, it's hard. joining us now is dan gross. why do you think that the marketplace, if i want to get money and you control the interest rate and i say listen, i've cut my spending dan, i've got this and you still are like ratigan, i'm not giving you the money. >> it's the great segway. roger clemens, things that are juiced to things that need to be juiced. >> listen, i hear there's a job opening here so if you're interested. >> so, what we're seeing is you know, ireland, they went for a bailout because they stood behind their banks when they went belly up. and they went to the european union, central bank.

we'll give you money, you've got to show progress and raise tax. the theory is that the market will reward you -- freeing up cash to invest. >> lower your credit card rate and restructure. >> ireland is paying near 7%, which in today's environment, that's like ultra -- >> people doing all the stuff -- and your interest rate stays high. >> exactly, which then lead to a lack of confidence which then leads to running the bank like activities. spain, a similar thing. they have this huge housing bust, the state has now come and is backing the banks. they're paying 7% interest rate. they've done the austerity package. they're checking the boxes and if the market is not doing what the european central bank is telling it to do. >> if your merkel, the german

electorate, what do you do? what do you do? what's she supposed to do right now? >> i think we've entered this realm where i think it's a danger in the u.s., too, where the fed had to do this or the economy won't grow. we have that moment in '08 and '09, but after that, it was companies, consumers and individuals trying to figure out -- >> and get more for less through new ways of solving problems. >> we have clawed back all the private sector jobs we lost since 2009 because companies found new ways. that has to start happening. this notion that there's going to be b a meeting in brussels or frankfurt and they're going to come with some new policy that works and that's going to make everything go back magically to where it was, i think is a pretty dame hope. >> because that country's go bust then? how does this work? >> now in europe, they talk about austerity is the path. this is the way to do it. well, maybe not.

now, it's well, we've got to talk about growth. but they talk about that in the abstract like the way my kid will talk about practicing piano five hours a day. >> is the prerequisite to that a functioning capital market? in other words, if you don't have a functioning debt market, a functioning tax and banking system, isn't it much more difficult? isn't that why they did the marshall plan? isn't that why after the civil war, they did bond offerings? there's a prerequisite catalyst to growth that is some form of structure. >> look at the u.k. interest rates are incredibly low and there's no demand. >> what's happening next door as well. >> i want to question the premise here. ireland has yes it's hiked taxes, but spending cuts are cutting you know, down from the 2010 levels back down to the

2009 levels. in other words, nobody's really slashing spending. greece is the only one making significant spending cuts. i know ireland is back down to its 2009 levels, but they're hiking taxes. there's government austerity and private. how are you going get businesses starting if your tacks are going up, but is there really spending cuts? the premise of your argument here, oh, they're cutting spending. >> austerity is the combination. it's like the reeces peanut butter cup. >> they don't have to be blended. >> ireland has done both. >> again, 2011 is exactly, government -- >> what you're asserting, tim, is is that you would like to see another experiment with bigger cuts before you would accept this premise. is that fair? >> and we've seen cuts in

government spending and it drove them into a second recession. >> you reduce demand. now, england, since they control their own currency, they're able to have low interest rates and are free from all this. when you can't control, it's even more incumbent on you to say okay, we're going to raise taxes, cut spending, we'll really have a lot of fire and get some growth because otherwise -- >> bring this back. >> quickly. >> a challenge you made almost a year and a half ago when we saw these austerity programs instituted in europe, we see the result, learned the lesson here in the united states and you touched upon it. the private sector not doing great, but it's not doing nearry as bad as what we've seen -- >> a lot better. >> but the problem is that we've cut over 600,000 government jobs and that's what is basically dragging our economy.

>> i'm going wrap this just because of the clock. the point is well made. it's nice to see you, dan. straight ahead here, a different kind of danger lurking in our next bite. could our big appetites wipe out mankind? my goodness me. i doubt it. but we'll talk about it. along with the latest on this. roger clemens awaiting a verdict on purgery. the trial behind us, the jury back with the verdict and coming your way, next, along with how to get a lot more food for a lot less money. i want healthy skin for life.

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the population. one said population fatness is a major threat unless we tackle l both population growth and fatness, our chances are slim. a word on whether the pun was intended or not. scientists fear that the growing of large folks -- globally, the human population weighs around 316 million tons. researchers blaming 16.5 million tons on overweight individuals and 4 million on obesity while the u.s. accounts for a third of the earth's global obesity. you compare to asia, which has 60% of the world's people, but only 13% of the obesity. according to the report, if every country were as obese as the united states, it would be like having an additional billion people living on the planet and while we may not have

an answer for the growing p populati population, we may have an answer to where we can get all the extra food we are going to need. to your next segment. a couple of farmers after this, who make us say wow when it comes to food. so to save money i just found them a possum. dad, i think he's dead. probably just playin' possum. sfx: possum hisses there he is. there's an easier way to save. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. support team usa and show our olympic spirit right in our own backyard. so we combined our citi thankyou points to make it happen. tom chipped in 10,000 points. karen kicked in 20,000. and by pooling more thankyou points from folks all over town,

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courthouse and the verdict will be ready any moment. pete williams will bring us the decision as it comes through. however, some information all this week in this time slot around 4:00, you are going to introduce or reintroduce you to some of my favorite teachers and leaders. all of them have shown us and shown me and hopefully, you, how to get a lot more for a lot less. while they all do something different, each guest, they have one thing in common. that you have a clear mission and a ruthless and compassionate culture in which they evaluate where they are and how they're going get there before they go. in other words, they have ruthless mission analysis. they don't just start planning willy-nilly. it is this type of thinking that results in potentially stunning statistics and today's statistic perhaps best tells the story.

imagine you were getting twice as much food for 90% less water and soil. and imagine that you understand that it's the right amount of water, light and soil getting delivered to exactly the right locations for exactly the right amount of time, something that a farmer from the 1800s could never figure out. it is this type of new thinking we're seeing from health care to energy to crime prevention and obviously, food, that we've all been taught by community leaders and our fellow americans that we've met on this show. and so we have our wow, twice as much food, our how, get the water to the right place at the right time. get the soil, get the sun and the question is how do we need more of it now regardless of any other factors in our lives? this our mission as we move beyond talk as we conclude "the

dylan ratigan show" and look to learn more from leaders i'm about to introduce you to. collin and karen, they started archie's acres in san diego to demonstrate, model and teach. use low cost, hydro ponic farming techniques and create incredible jobs for folks looking for work. thanks for being a teacher for me, guys. you blew my mind, colin. it was a month ago and you started lecturing me. tell everybody when you met me, the first thing you did was trying to correct me. you look all farm like now with your green shirt. tell them the truth, colin. tell them. >> well, met you at entrepreneur

event actually and i think you posed the question everybody's looking for who they is and they doesn't exist. i disagree with you. i think they does exist. that person we look at in the mirror and what is that person doing to make this place better place to live. >> i corrected myself when you said that. you're right. and so that's a question that you've been asking yourself and it really has led you to this crusade really to teach and show how to get a lot more food for fewer resources while opening up an incredible career for a lot of people. how did you answer the question yourself as to your own them? who am i and how did you end up here? >> good question. i guess i didn't have those answers, but for my own personal being, do something that made the livelihoods of my family and the people around me an the people i care about who are you

know, marines and returning military people, what could we do to make them and their livelihoods better. it was karen's idea, well, how about teaching what we do. we created a small scale organic farm using hydroponics and the yields are much greater than traditional farming and we convert, we designed an entrepreneurial training program for returning vets to help them transition into self-employment. >> karen, it's gone tremendous. you just graduated a bunch of folks. walk us through now where you guys are. >> well, we have day one of our new class today, but we offer a six week training program to teach organic sustainable agriculture and agri business as a career. >> we have industry leaders come in to include investors and

bankers and what we force the class to do is develop a business plan and present it to a panel we put together of industry leaders for feedback and we've developed post graduate tracks to not only be a concept, but to become reality. >> i got it, brian. i'm getting a lot of cable news here because the roger clemens verdict is out. i'm glad we're able to share your story, but the priority today in the news business is the roger clemens verdict. off to pete williams for the verdict on roger clemens. and the verdict is not guilty, dylan. not guilty on all counts after a nine-week trial in which roger clemens, the baseball pitching great, the seven-time cy young award winner, was charged with lying to congress four years ago when he told a senate staff and then the senate committee hearing that he had not used either steroids or human growth hormones. he denied using performance

enhancing drugs. he was charged with lying to congress. his first trial ended in a mistrial and today, the federal court jury after about an hour and a half deliberations, has found him not guilty on all six counts. it's a big victory for the clemens. a setback for the justice department's long running attempt to investigate and prosecute the use of steroids in the major league sports. you may remember the trial of barry bonds in san francisco last year. fizzled out. he was sentenced to home detention, then the justice department decided not to prosecute lance armstrong, although he now faces allegations from the antidoping agency, but this is a big victory for clemens. this long cloud that's been over his head for two years is now removed and we expect to hear from him a little later outside the courthouse here in washington with his lawyer to talk. >> thank you very much, pete and

i don't know if karen and colin are still with me. are you guys there? okay, you are. >> we're here. >> welcome to the cable news business, my friends. going to do some farming and roger clemens. there's something that really struck me that goes beyond all of this. which is that you are corelated both of you are correlating the accessibility of sustainable food supplies and the the accessibility of the awareness on limited water, limited land, which is really a situation in the world, that that has an association with global security. make that connection for me. >> you really hit it with water. nobody's really talking about access to water. it's a huge issue here in southern california. we probably pay the most expensive water in the world. .

it's going to be cut off from neighboring nations and that's going to create tension. there's things in life that you need and that you have to have and water and food is one of them. it's going to be growing tensions and the six-day were in the rights to the river is already proof of that concept. >> now, karen, what do you think is the barrier to more farms working under the sort of technology that you guys are modeling right now and for that matter are training returning veterans and nonveterans alike to do? in other words, why do we not have more farms that look some version of what you guys are teaching and modeling? >> well, we're working on it. i would say a lot of the entrepreneurs that come out of our program, the main barrier was financial and we've really been able to bridge that. working with farm service agency and that for us is a big plus. because it's making it possible for someone to set up their crop

production with a loan that's actually for farmers. >> i'd like to add that in the past, your food distribution model has been reliant on centralized distribution points run by large scale operations, it hasn't been in recent years, a marketplace for small scale farmers to get their products to the markets, but that's changing primarily because of the demand from the consumer is they want to buy local, american made products and it's given a new opportunity for you know, start-up farms. >> this is not that complicated. in other words, if somebody wanted to learn how to do that, what, let's say i have no idea how to do this, right? and there are a lot of us who have no idea how to do that. but we look at you guys and we look at colin and we're like a real man knows how to grow his own vegetables and i don't know how and i want to be a real man, so how do i learn how to do that? what is is key thing that you

understand as a marine veteran and farmer that the rest of us don't? >> i'd say for one, you've got to be willing to take a risk. that's true from an entrepreneur or as somebody looking to take a new job. second of all and we welcome you, dylan, to come out and take our training program. >> i want to do it. >> you're welcome to come out and if the thing that we teach that is great about our program is you can be the best crop producer in the world, but if you don't know how to market your crop, balance your books and do the things it takes to run a business, you're going to fail. that happens to college xwrads all the time. we really bridge the gap of here's the tools you need to grow crops. here's the tools you need to be aggressive in the marketplace. >> and then the science, karen, if a farmer in the 1800s wanted to do this, this would be much harder than it is in 2012. can you give us a sense of the new tools you're able to benefit

fr from? >> i would say that the technology is not knew. hydroponics has been around since the floating aztec gardens or babylon. it's been around a long time. what we do is teach how to utilize hydroponic crop production, but also, we work closely with whole foods market because they'll accept new crop producers. so before someone actually plants their seed, we're able to make sure that crop is sold. >> and in the past, particularly in the united states, we've been fairly rich in natural resources and cheap lash. that's another reason why it hasn't taken off, but now again with places like southern california not having water and natural resources and labor being harder to find, that's where technology i guess becomes more of a need. >> yeah. makes extraordinary sense. again, i may well take you up on the oiffer for school this fall or shortly there after. if not sooner. >> we welcome you.

>> and more regardless, really, the inspiration that the two of you have provided by living your life and allowing other people to see it and to realize that you can make new decisions in new ways to get new outcomes by being ruthless enough to do it is a profound message and i congratulate you on that and thank you for being a teacher for me. >> thank you, dylan and one last thing. we do it for selfish reasons. we get to work with the best people on the planet every day and that's veterans of the recent wars and we appreciate that. >> i think we all see it and appreciate your leadership as we look to our veterans to take us on the next mission mere. thank you. coming up on "hardball," the politics of immigration reform. chris asking whether the president has boxed mitt into a corner, but first, keli goff with her last and final "daily rant." concrete. and steel.

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well, this father's day reminds us there are plenty of wonderful dads deserving of the title of father of the year. those who are deserving of the worst father of the year crown. a strong contender would have been to be the father and the car payments and theb the dad in oklahoma recently arrested for abusing two babies. he was released from prison fracturing ting school. what does our society do with people who have prove b they are irresponsible parents?

more specifically, what do we do with people where children are not safe in their care, yet they continue to have more children? before advocates send me angry e-mails, i am not advocating a sterilization program, but there are other tools that be slow to be used. one is a national child abuse registry. one, if a child abuser serves time and is released, there is no system for tracking this person. a pedophile has to register as a sex o fernd, a parent what beats a child doesn't have to register at all. teresa of the national children's alliance said part of the hold up is the never ending battle over state's rights. and explained what's called sexual assault in one state could be called indecency with a child elsewhere and that makes it tough to compare numbers nationally or to establish a national registry and states don't want the federal government coming in and telling

them to change the language of their statutes, but she is hopeful l a new bill will make it viable again. senate bill 1984, the protect our kids act, would establish a national commission and lay the ground work for nailing down strategies for combatting child abuse. strategies like establishing a national registry. john kerry said it would shock most americans to learn that the united states ranks highest in child abuse fatalities of any industrialed nation. he also added that during his time as prosecutorer he came across many abusers who had been victims of child abusers himself. kerry urged others who care about this issue to contact your senator and ask them to support the save our kids act. it has bipartisan support, but can use more. go to loop21.com to find out how to e-mail your senator. >> this is probably excruciating a domestic problem as any society will ever face. again, because it ties back to the farming conversation.

what you're saying is there's new tools where you can have a better inventory of what exists and then can have a more intelligent debate about what to do about it. when you look at any myriad of issues, where this really applies, what do you think is the greatest barrier to having it happen? we aren't thinking of it? >> this sounds shallow to say, but when i was sbrer viewing experts, a lot of the complaints were similar, the dna backlog, which is that data processing doesn't sound boring and get people elected, right? a lot of politicians don't want to spend the money on doing things upfront. >> makes total sense. before we go, i got to show everybody the t-shirt. keli gave me a gone fishing t-shirt except the fish is getting money out of politics, which is a different kind of politics. we're going to need a different kind of bait for that.

>> have fun fishing and shout out to scott jones, who did the shirt. >> that will do it for us today and "hardball" is next. going on offense. let's play "hardball." good evening. let me start with barack obama's forward pass. i'm talking about his decision to get out front on the immigration issue. to say that people who are brought to this country under the age of 16 shouldn't get punished. they shouldn't be chased and grabbed by the ins. from now on, even if they don't have legal status, they will be left alone to live and work here. it's fascinating to see the reaction from the right, isn't it sm romney and those he wants to represent went silent on this. he whined a bit about democrat congresses not doing this