democrat congresses. but tonight, the people raring to grab the the white house remain tongue tied. the president proved again he knows how to use his office. if being the incumbent forces him to play defense, it doesn't stop him from playing offense. joining me now are two of the top political thinkers. john heilemann and david corn of mother jones. both are distinguished authors. david with his musings in "showdown." let's take a look at the latest commentary. the one i want to look at tonight the mitt romney and how he started this campaign. he was even further to the right on immigration, the rest of the far right wing in this campaign. he tangled with newt gingrich for example back in january and let's listen to how he positioned himself on the far right, the most anti-immigration policy. here he is. >> is he still the most anti-immigrant candidate? >> i think of the the four of us, yes. >> go ahead, governor. >> that's inexcusable. that's inexcusable. >> you tell me what language you would use to explain that

deporting a grand mer or grandfather from their family, just tell me a language. i'm perfectly happy for you to explain what language you'd use. >> mr. speaker, i think i described following the law, as it exists in this country which is to say i'm not going to round people up and deport them. people who come here legally get a work permit. people who do not, do not. those who don't get work over time will self-deport. >> self-deport. romney planted to the right of rick perry as well. let's listen to that. >> if you've been in the state of texas for three years, if you're working towards your college degree and if you are working and pursuing citizenship in the state of texas, you pay instate tuition there. >> with regards to illegal immigration, of course we'd build a fence and of course we do not give instate tuition credits to people who have come here illegally. that only attracts people to continue to come here and talk advantage of america's great benefits.

>> when the january 16th gop debate, mitt romney laid out his hard line on immigration. let's listen to that. >> i think we have to follow the law and insist those that have come here illegally ultimately return home, apply, get in line with everyone else. >> well, there you have it. i want to start with david corn. seems to me he's laid out the law will be enforced. it will be enforced with a terror if not. if it hasn't been before. in other words, you go home where you came from, where your parents brought you here from and wait in some line that's there waiting for you to join and start all over again in life and that's the deal i'm offering you people who came here without papers. that's the romney line. how's it going to stack up against obama who's now offered to not basically go after anybody under 30 who came here under 16. >> what romney has done is put himself into a pair of cement

shoes. he has taken the most extreme position you have -- i'm not saying it's an unprincipled position. it's a logical severely conservative position which is we're not going to do anything about the 12 million people who are undocumented or anything about the 12 -- their kids. everyone has to go home and that's it, end of story. it's a consistent position. it doesn't match reality. because i can't work as a policy and really doesn't match political reality, which is why

he's been so tongue tied since the president took offensive on this on friday. >> how is this any different than the big boat argument? people when he came african-americans after the civil war. decided put him on a boat and send him back where they came from. he says that in polite language, but that's what he's been saying. get home where you came from. start all over again. >> he is right when he says it has been the law of the land and it's a -- it's not -- >> but everybody knows there will be an accommodation at some point. >> everyone thinks it helps their well being. i think what the president done is the right thing to do. but the policy thing is going to be either worked out on a bipartisan basis or in the romney administration. there's got to be bipartisan support.

romney's problem is this puts him on the wrong side of maybe the most important demographic group in the electorate right now. a group where republicans are in serious long-term trouble and romney has put himself in serious short-term trouble because he's made himself terminally unpopular with latino voters. and if he doesn't get 36, 37, 38, more like 40%, he can't win the election. >> bob schieffer asked him the question. here is his answer. he had no responses to repeated attempts to try to get an answer on what he thought about president obama's executive order friday which allows people under age 30 who came under age 16 to basically stay. let's listen. >> would you repeal this order if you became president? >> well, let's step back and look at the issue. with regards to these kids brought in by their parents through no fault of their own, there needs to be a long-term solution. >> but would you repeal this? >> it would be overtaken by events, if you will, by my virtue of putting in place a long-term solution. >> would you leave this this place while you worked out a long-term solution? >> we'll look at that setting as we reach that. >> that's almost as good as not doing the sunday shows. i mean, we wondered why he wouldn't do the sunday shows. he did show up like woody allen but didn't answer the questions. we got a whole bunch later in the show. why did he show up? it's on sunday. what do you think happened on friday? >> that's a very good question. i think he made the agreement to go be on the show before he knew that barack obama was going to make this. before he knew -- this is a

pretty dramatic thing obama did on friday. not something the romney campaign anticipated him doing. i'm not making excuses for romney here. he should have an answer, but the thing before, which is that he does not, he's trying to etch sketch his way out of the position he took in the primary. which is he was against the dream act. he's in this place further to the right than any other republican candidate. but he can't be there and win the election so now, he's trying in some way to get a holding pattern here. so he can eventually start to slide away from his own position. >> seems like this is one area where romney has stuck himself so far to the right. we've often asked how far he can etch a sketch his way. if you spend the whole fight saying i'm going to be the toughest person on hispanic people here. the right of newt, the the right of perry, the right of santorum, ron paul especially, i'm so far right, you can't get to my right and then says by the way, i'm doing an about face. i'd like to get some hispanic votes. can he get away with it? >> this is the perfect encapsulation. he went far right and you played the clip, chris, when he said there is only one solution here. people go back to where they came from no matter what then we deal with it then. then when bob schieffer asked him the same question, three, four times, not only does he not

have an answer, well, i'm going to do a long-term solution. what do you mean? he already gave us his solution. his solution was to send them back, self-deport, whatever you call it. so he has a solution, he just can't talk about it now. and the fact that he knew on friday this was happening, he did the interview i think on saturday, and couldn't answer the question. it's his campaign running ads that say on day one i'm going to do this and do that. on day one. abo do >> ho they' state taking that anti-immigrati on her away with it. people are mad. whether they're pro choice or antichoice, people are upset deal with it then. then when bob schieffer asked him the same question, three, four times, not only does he not have an answer, well, i'm going to do a long-term solution. what do you mean? he already gave us his solution. his solution was to send them back, self-deport, whatever you call it. so he has a solution, he just can't talk about it now. and the fact that he knew on friday this was happening, he did the interview i think on saturday, and couldn't answer the question. it's his campaign running ads that say on day one i'm going to do this and do that. on day one. what's he going to do day one about this directive? apparently he doesn't know and doesn't have a clue. >> the people have come from the hispanic backgrounds, who knows how many generations. they're going to have to think

about this guy's emotional state. why he was so comfortable about taking that anti-immigration position. on one issue, they're pretty good. here's bill crystal of the neo-conservative with the weekly standard praising president obama's order on friday. he said romney's got trouble here. >> i think it's a sensible policy. if that was the law of the land. i think the president's pushing the limits and saying we're not going to enforce a law in order to meet these people in the country, but i think it's the right thing to do, actually. i think this is a big problem for romney. he needs to take the lead on this. embrace marco rubio's act. say let's pass this in congress over the next two months. this is what i'm for. >> this must scare david corn to have a guy that's as far right. to say you're so far out you're in trouble here. >> also i'm waiting iffer in business community.

remember, the business community doesn't take this hard line of immigration that romney took to get the tea partiers on his side. >> right. i know that. >> therest a split within the republican party here. but i think bill is behind the times here. so there's no way at this point in time that romney can take the lead on this. he's already said he's not that interested in the marco rubio approach. so if he embraces it, we have yet another flip-flop on romney. i think he's shot himself in the foot and he can kiss a lot of the latino vote good-bye. i don't know what he's going to do to get it back. >> i also wondered how americans up to date on politics would take a republican position when it's so clearly that party has identified it as anti-gay rights. here you have another pretty direct statement by romney. i'm not on your side on immigration issues. >> to answer the question you asked -- you'll get first. bill crystal, there's a bright line between those people who recognize demographic equality and those who don't. he was sitting on that interview set on fox with karl rove. another guy who recognized that republicans had to be right wit hispanics. george w. bush. this is we're recognized demographic reality and those who don't. as for latinos, if you go around

focus groups in the southwest, there are older hispanics who resent illegal immigrants as much as some white americans do. >> what is the reaction to people that don't like them though? it's one thing to have a conservative view on the law. what do you do when you hear there are people in politics that don't you like you because you're mexican-american? >> i think it's hard to get someone to vote for you if you think you believe -- hates you as an ethnic group. but let's be clear. someone to vote for you if you think you believe -- hates you as an ethnic group. but let's be clear. there is in the hispanic community, there's not a uniform view about what to do about illegal immigration. >> they'll tell you -- go ahead. >> on this particular issue when we're talking about kids who

have been brought here through no fault of their own. we're not talking about people who have snuck in and been here 20 years, who are adults. this is about as sympathetic a group you can get on immigration reform. and for romney to be behind on this, it's a big gap that he's not going to be able to close. even if he takes bill crystal's advice. >> i think he made a calculated decision to win the the nomination and then fight from then on. do whatever it took to get the nomination, go as far right on every single issue. taxes, foreign policy, iran, mexican americans coming here. every issue. you could get to the right, go as far right as you could, calculate it you can do some pir ro wets, etch scratches or etch a sketches. and later in the campaign make some adjustments and people would forgive you. i think they're not going to forgive this character. thank you, john heilemann and david corn. coming up, dirty, angry money. what do you want? let's go inside the koch brothers machine. they've got their own political party it seems. and jerry sandusky. the defense has begun its case such as it is. can you imagine what this defense is going to be? big question. will he take the stand and confront these awful charges?

plus, blind ambition. mitt romney wants to be president, but why can't he say what he'd do if he was president? he keeps doing it. he shows up but doesn't answer questions. let me finish tonight with what makes the idea of a romney presidency so dangerous. this is "hardball" the place for politics. [ male announcer ] it seems like every company has a facebook page these days. but where's the relationship status? well, esurance is now in a relationship...with allstate. and it looks pretty serious.

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baseball great roger clemens is free and clear. billionaire koch brothers. they've set their sights on helping the 2012 election. they're doing that with a war chest that resembles an entire political party. their plan calls for spending about $400 million including money from their own pockets as well as from other wealthy friends. politico reports their operations have become increasingly sophisticated including on the ground county by county efforts in key states. this this weekend, they're holding a convention amongst themselves. expected to hand over tens of millions of dollars.

much of that money will be spent without having to disclose who gave it. that's key here. and that is not good for any democracy. ken vogel and eugene, i want ken to go through this. tell us about the koch brothers. who are they? how much loot do they have to spend? what are they interests? >> the koch brothers have a vast manufacturing conglomerate really. it's the second biggest private company in the united states. it's involved in everything from oil refining to chemicals to household products. they own georgia pacific which makes brawny paper towels.

they've been involved in conservative politics, however in recent years, they have both shifted their ideology. used to be a form of libertarianism and have become more involved, giving more money, consolidating more donors around them and also taking the money that they give and that these donors give and giving it to a wider range of groups so their tentacles truly reach very fall into the conservative movement and the sort of extra party infrastructure where it's arguably they maybe are the most powerful force on the right in politics today. >> gene, you've been studying politics a long time. this seems like a new organism here. something so big where they can reach out anywhere in the country spending 400 million bucks is a lot of money. apparently they don't care about the issues as long as they're republicans. they're pro-right to life.

it isn't just oil and gas out there. it's everything republican. >> what's different to my view at least, what's different is number one the koch brothers are billionaires. not just millionaires. they've got virtually unlimited funds. and second, it's all in service of a sort of radical ideology. and they've kind of added these traditional republican causes like the nra like kind of bells and whistles. but the central thrust is really quite radical in terms of where the political center has been in this country for a long time. >> what did they read the fountain head? what moved them? ken, did they -- like a lot of us read those books. we weren't moved politically by them. they're good writing, of course. how do these guys become so fanatical they are dumping a half billion dollars in this campaign. >> we should say this makes them -- has in the past made them sort of difficult to pin down on the traditional partisan spectrum. they opposed the war in iraq.

slightly in favor depending who you talk about -- who you talk to on gay rights. they've given money that support drug decriminalization. it's only in recent years they have tacked further to the right and become more of a pragmatic republican machine. there's question between operatives, folks in the establishment who i talked to to what extent they are loyal party soldiers and what extent they are going to punish republicans or democrats but republicans as well from the right for not adhering to their orthodoxy. >> so their own political party. republicans used to defend their call for donations for -- we tell you who we are, who have given money. what extent they are loyal party soldiers and what extent they are going to punish republicans or democrats but republicans as well from the right for not adhering to their orthodoxy. >> so their own political party. republicans used to defend their call for donations for -- we tell you who we are, who have given money. that's changed. quote, now that they have

unlimited donations, or something pretty close, they don't want unlimited disclosure after all. they want unlimited contributions in secret. why is that? according to haight, they're in no hurry to get it back. and never disclose the donors. i would say it was like the 15 families that run the country, at least you knew who those families were. eugene, the koch brothers don't even like us talking about them right now. i know they don't. go ahead. >> right. they want to be able to promise other big donors that they bring in that, oh, don't worry. nobody will know. and perhaps say boycott your products. or products that your company makes if you're giving to

radical causes they don't believe in. but the real impact of this in this election, talking about nearly $400 million. on a presidential level, the obama campaign's going to have enough money. right? they're going to have enough money to compete. but at lower levels, this money undisclosed, unlimited can be decisive. >> you're right. talk about that. you can pitch 20 or 30 congressional races. dump the last weekend money in where there's nobody spending money and what? >> absolutely. you can move the needle in exactly that manner and do it without anybody knowing who you are and do it to the tune of however much you want basically. i mean, it's -- it sounds like we're making this up. it does not sound like our country. this is the way things work now. >> you're running for congress for re-election, all of a sudden somebody starts dumping this money out of nowhere. all of a sudden ads are running about what a stinky poo you are. you've never heard these charges before. and people are by the thousands saying i don't know if i know this guy anymore. must be something to it. where there's smoke there's fire. these ads work, right ken?

>> they do work. and they shifted the incentive structure. if you were starting a congressional campaign even five, ten years ago, you would go out and you who schmooze the community. we're talking about the tactics for fund raising. and now all you really need is that one big sugar daddy. and that person is sufficient to be able to give money through an outside group that is technically not coordinating with your campaign but has its best interest at heart and can completely tilt the race, shift the dynamic. that person as long as you maintain them as your patron can continue to get you elected for years and years without you having to do the traditional things we think of as part of retail politics. >> nice to have daddy warbucks showing up. thank you for the wisdom. up next, which republican candidate was the inspiration

behind this tv vampire? check out the sideshow next. this is "hardball" the place for politics.

welcome back. time for the sideshow. the first lady stopped by live with kelly today. the conversation quickly turned to parenting in the white house. >> there's definitely the times where you're giving that sort of get over here, you know. you just don't see it on camera. >> i have to ask you this. >> you get that mother voice like, come sit down. >> you don't do the one -- >> when we do, what i'm trying to teach them is like when you're at a performance, you know, you know how kids don't have a poker face and malia and sasha are watching dancers and performing and here's malia and sasha. and i'm leaning over like aren't you having fun? they're like yeah, this is great. >> wow.

later in the hour, the first lady surpassed, actually surprised some teen champions of double dutch jump roping with a performance of her own. let's watch her go. ♪ >> campaigning these days takes many forms. and speaking of the first family, we're getting new details about the celebrity new york fund raiser hosted by anna winter and sarah jessica parker. but it was andy cohen who stole the show. he got the president to play a version of the bit he does on his show. it's called plead the fifth. he asks his guest, three questions, only one of which they're able to plead the fifth. the question the president refused to answer, which outfit does michelle obama wear that he doesn't like?

one guest wanted the answer straight and that was the first lady herself. i want to know what it is, she said. well, the president's answer, no way. i'm not crazy. smart guy. lastly, how's this for an artistic homage? when alan bald wanted some inspiration for the powerful leader of the vampires, where did he turn? apparently to rick santorum. the legendary tv producer told the rap coat for me, the jumping off point was watching the republican primaries. watching michele bachmann, watching rick santorum, what would it be like to have a theocracy in america. take a look at the rick santorum inspired villain. >> i am the authority. >> can we look beyond ourselves in the blood lust that has

historically defined us to something bigger than all of us? and live as equals. >> this administration is dedicated now more than ever to the path of mainstreaming. >> wow, one thing's clear. the vampire version of rick santorum is definitely better dressed. sure outdoes that sweater vest deal he always wear. up next, the defense in jerry sandusky trial has been making its case. but will sandusky get up there on the stand and face these charges? we'll see. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics.

i'm milissa rehberger.

here's what's. president obama and vladimir putin met to discuss syria during the summit. the two leaders agreed the violence there must end and syrians must choose their government. and a jury has acquitted baseball star roger clemens. clemens was accused of lying to congress for using performance enhancing drugs. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." after emotional testimony this morning from a mother of an alleged victim of jerry sandusky, the prosecution rested its case against the former penn state coach. the defense began calling witnesses to speak. they told jurors to begin

deliberating as early as thursday on the 51 charges of sexual abuse he faces. all of which he denies. michael isikoff is covering this case for us up in bellefonte, pennsylvania. what's the case stand like right now? michael? >> well, first -- yeah, first, chris, the prosecution rested with that very powerful final witness. the mother of one of the victims. victim number nine. she was the first mother in this case to testify -- only mother to testify. and she breaks down in tears as she described how she continued to let her son go to sandusky's home over several year's time despite the fact he was complaining at times, he became anxious. he prosecutor asked her do you feel responsible and she covers her hands, weeps, and says yes i do. a very powerful moment in the courtroom. prosecution rested. the defense then began calling a string of character witnesses. a couple of former penn state

assistant coaches who talked about what a great reputation jerry sandusky had, how great he was with kids. how they, too, showered with young boys in locker rooms as coaches and saw nothing wrong with it. none of the testimony spoke directly to the specific allegations of abuse. and it's hard to see how much ground sandusky's lawyers gained today. >> well, this morning, michael on the "today" show, you reported the prosecution asked our network on friday to reauthenticate the full unedited transcript of bob costas' interview last november on "rock center." a request nbc agreed to. well that transcript includes this previously unaired portion which legal analysts tell nbc could be used by the prosecution during rebuttal or during cross examination if jerry sandusky takes the stand in his own defense.

let's watch this really powerful bit of news making here. >> so it's entirely possible that you could have helped young boy "a" in some way that was not objectionable while taking advantage of young boy "b, d, c, and e." is that possible? >> you may think that. in terms of my relationship with so many, many young people, i would -- i would guess that there are many young people who would come forward -- many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods and what i had done for them made a very positive impact on their life. and i didn't go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that i've helped. there are many that i didn't have -- i hardly had any contact with. who i have helped in many, many

ways. >> you know, mike. i've never heard of a guy so self-indicting to say i didn't go out seeking sexual needs for everyone i helped. you can make your own judgment to what that admission sounds like. >> exactly. and that is exactly the problem with the defense so far. bringing out testimony about what great work jerry sandusky did through the second mile doesn't do anything to disprove the specific allegations of abuse by the witnesses who did testify in this case. and, you know, that statement pretty much encapsulates the problem the sandusky defense has. and if sandusky does take the stand and we should know that tomorrow, they're going to wrap

up their case by wednesday noon if he's going to take the stand it's got to be tomorrow. that can be played -- he can be cross examined on that exchange alone and could have some real problems answering it. >> i think it says a lot about how forthcoming he was trying to be with bob costas. what a strange situation to be so honest in such an uneffected way to admit the guilt so clearly. thank you, michael. great reporting. with me now is diane diamond who is covering this. you've been very good at capturing what most people are darkly fascinated about this case. the horror of it, the complete nature of the testimony present sod far. >> i was just listening to my friend michael isikoff here. it's so important for people to remember that pedophiles -- i'm not saying jerry sandusky is one, but pedophiles are among the most charming, personable, engaging, popular people around. they have to be because they must get through the wall of parents to get to the children. so michael hit the nail right on

the head. the defense can bring in all the people they want. they had six witnesses here today to say, you know, jerry's a great guy. he did a lot for this charity. but that doesn't mean he didn't do what the prosecution is alleging he did. we heard from eight witnesses who said it happened to me. two other children were eyewitnessed by a janitor and by michael mcqueary. so it is a huge mountain for the defense to climb. >> if they put jerry sandusky on the stand facing these, how does he face where he basically said no, i didn't mess with all these kids. i'm paraphrasing it pretty much what he said. he said i didn't go out seeking every young person for sexual needs that i've helped. >> yeah. just 10-year-old boys, i guess is what he's saying. i don't know what he's saying there. >> he said it for himself. you don't have to interpret it. >> yeah. i'm of the mind that jerry sandusky is never, ever, ever going to take the stand in this courtroom. i'll bet you dotty doesn't either. when the judge announced late

today that both the prosecution and the defense were going to be all wrapped up by wednesday, i thought to myself that means the sanduskys aren't going to testify. because if they did -- if jerry sandusky were to testify here, the testimony would go on for days and days. no prosecutor in their right mind would agree to end on wednesday with a specter of jerry sandusky coming possibly to the stand. >> let's talk about power. this show on "hardball" is about politics and power. we've had the catholic church involved in some horror stories and penn state which is almost a religious institution of football up there at penn state. people have dealt with this guy. was his charm, was his position -- what protected him from all the suspicions that came around? he was always able to doff them off. to move on. to hold his position. >> you know, you hit the nail right on the head there.

it is all about power. people in authority that get away with things being alleged here. i'm not trying to indict jerry sandusky yet. i mean, it's up to the jury to decide whether or not he's guilty. but, you know, there were former coaches from penn state that testified here today that he was a great guy. one of them mr. brooks said he has an exemplary character. he's topnotch. we heard a wrestling coach come in and say i saw something strange there, but he was with jerry sandusky. quote, he's a saint. so, you know, it is that specter of power and now the lack of power that jerry sandusky has. you know, i went over to the bar today to ask about one of the witnesses. and jerry sandusky started talking to me. i was so stunned, i went to ask the attorney about one witness who was in a wheelchair, an army veteran. i wanted to know was he wounded in battle. and the attorney -- the assistant attorney said i don't know. jerry, what's the story? and sandusky came over to me and

just started talking. oh, his leg got blown off. then he came home and he was in a motorcycle accident. now he's paralyzed. it's terrible. i thought to myself, this guy does not know when to not talk. or people not to talk to. so if he does take the stand, we're back to that question. i just don't see any pluses for the defense. >> well said. thank you. great reporting there. up next, blind ambition. all mitt romney wants to be is president. he doesn't seem to want to answer tough questions or any questions. he doesn't want to say what he'd do if he got to be president. he just wants the job. this is "hardball" the place for politics.

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for a free brochure, call the number on your screen. president obama's tapped john kerry to play the role of mitt romney in the mock debate. he has first hand knowledge of the romney record up there in the state. and of course kerry's no stranger to the debates. we'll be right back. those surprising little things she does

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we're become we know one thing about mitt romney. wants to be president of the united states. what would a mitt romney presidency be like or look like? we're looking at the statements on major policy issues to try to figure out where this fella stands. kasie hunt, she's been covering the romney campaign in iowa right now. and ron reagan, an msnbc political analyst. i want you both to look at this. this was yesterday on "face the nation." mitt romney took a hawkish stance on iran. let's watch him. >> i can assure you if i'm president, the iranians will have no question but that i would be willing to take military action if necessary to prevent them from becoming a nuclear threat to the world. i don't believe at this stage, therefore, if i'm president that

we need to have war powers approval or a special authorization for military forgs. the president has that capacity now. we cannot we cannot survive a course of action which would include a nuclear iran, and we must be ready to take any and all actions. all those actions must be on the table. >> who is writing this stuff for him, and who is this coming from. he has no foreign policy, no one has been in the military, but his solution is a, let's go to the military and use armed forces? where does the history come from? is he makes it up or is someone writing it for him 1234. >> we heard that a lot in the primary campaign. romney has to deal with the fact that obama has a record on, for example, osama bin laden, which makes it hard to stray from the right. romney's campaign team is aware that this is a public that is tired of war. people are tired, we have been

in afghanistan for a decade. people want us to get out. and you'll see him talk about that, which is to say he doesn't have a problem with the u.s. having a timetable for getting out of there, but he is critical of the president's willingness to publicize that timetable. >> let's go to ron. let's take a look at this. i want your reaction. here he is talking yesterday with bob schaefer. he dodged the question on how he planned to deal with revenue. let's look at this one. >> we know governor you have told us, you haven't been bashful about telling us where you want to cut taxes. when are you going to tell us where you're going to get the revenue? the of the deductions are you going to reliminate, which of the tax credits, when will you tell us that? >> we'll go through that process with congress, which to the

exemptions -- >> do you have any idea? >> he gives something there, for the guys, bolton, of all the guys in the world to give you advice about peace and war. now on the issue of taxes where he's supposed to be mr. business, mr. expert, your favorite accountant, he can't tell you how he's going to deal with this. >> he once said not too long ago, if he gave too many details about his economic policies, that would be problematic because people wouldn't like the details and they would be less likely to vote for him. he has signed on to the ryan budget plan, of course, so we know his general tendency it to privatize everything, for instance, privatize medicare. as far as taxes goes, you know, he's not going to raise the rate on the highest earners. we know that. we know he's not going to do that. he's not going to tell you what deductions he's going to come up with because again, it wouldn't sound good if he did. >> casey, i have a last one with you. he went on face of the nation, still won't go on "meet the press."

but he didn't say anything. why would he go on a sunday show if he's not going to say anything. >> romney has been able to spend most of the primary campaign being careful about what details he does release, talking to strategists, and he said that you know, what we were hearing three months ago isn't going to be the same as we're hearing four months from now. that he will evolve over time. it's going to be interesting to see if he does -- if he's forced to do that. >> we'll keep up with you and call you again. ron, thanks. when we return, let me finish with the idea of why a romney presidency is so dangerous. let's think about it. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics. [ meows ] or if a tree falls on your car and no one's around to answer your call, do you make a sound? the answer is probably "yes" [ growling ] and "like a howler monkey." unless you're calling esurance.

they have live humans on the phones to help 24/7. so you might make different sounds, like happy human sounds. esurance. insurance for the modern world. click or call.

let me finish tonight with this romney character. i don't think romney cares all that much about the pres densy except he wants it. you think he weren't running, he would be watching this show or any show on politics? forget about it.

his business is running for president. it's his business to be interested. it's something that his briefers have been over and over him. he seems stunned, he doesn't have an answer, why? he hasn't thought about that one. he hasp thought about many things outside his space of interest, his friends, family, business. and that's the most dangerous thing about this guy. he doesn't have a foreign policy, so he sings the song of his neocon so-called advisers. what they really are opeople who advocate a point of view, a new war with each new president, and they need someone in the white house to push it for him. they write his speeches. they want war with iran, they put that in the next speech. this, as i said, is the dangerous part. we have experience with a president who came to office with an empty head on foreign policy and pot the entire neocon pitch hook line and sinker. the one war in history that deserves a dunce cap. mitt won't say a word about taxes that nordqvist might disapprove. he won't approve spending that

grover won't say okay to. it makes grover's rover. grover says fetch, mitt fetches. grover says beg, mitt begs. same with the relidging right. he won't say a word that graham won't approve. he was at liberty university getting an honorary degree. i didn't know they give honorary degrees for pandering. he sold his soul to every right wing faction out there. the neocons, the religious right on social policy, grover on the tax issue. why have a brain if you don't have to think? with this crowd around him, he just has to do what he's told. listen closely, tell me if you have ever heard mitt romney say something that is not perfect right wing taking pounds. the exact words the pressure groups are telling him to say. he's a speaker system.

it's "hardball" for now. the "the ed show" starts right now. >> good evening, and welcome to the "the ed show" live from los angeles. president obama has mitt romney mumbling, stumbling, and fumbling with his new immigration policy. tonight, i'm show you how hispanic americans are responding. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> would you repeal this? >> let's step back and look at the issue. >> four days after the president's immigration announcement, mitt romney is still tongue tied and democrats are hammering him for it. >> a lot of people come here or walk across the border and have no skills, no education. and are looking for a free meal. >> tonight, congress luis gutierrez on the republican nightmare over the dream act. >> president obama has publicly accuse