to leave power, and did you make any tangible progress in your meetings with him or with chinese president hu in finding a way to stop the bloodshed there? >> these were major topics of conversation in both meetings, and anybody who has seen scenes of what is happening in syria, i think, recognizes that the violence is completely out of hand. that civilians are being targeted, and that assad has lost legitimacy. and when you massacre your own citizens in the ways that we have seen, it is impossible to conceive of an orderly political transition that leaves assad in power. now, that doesn't mean that that process of political transition is easy. and there's no doubt that

russia, which historically has had a relationship with syria, as well as china, which is generally wary of commenting on what it considers to be the internal affairs of other countries, are and have been more resistant to applying the kind of pressure that is necessary to achieve that political transition. we had a very candid conversation, i wouldn't suggest that at this point the united states and the rest of the international community are aligned with russia and china in their positions, but i do think they recognize the grave dangers of all-out civil war. i do not think they condone the massacres that we have witnessed. and i think they believe that

everybody would be better served if syria had a mechanism for ceasing the violence and creating a legitimate government. you know, what i have said to them is that it's important for the world community to work with the united nations and kofi annan on what a political transition would look like. and my hope is that we can have those conversations in the coming week or two and that we can present to the world but most importantly to the syrian people a pathway whereby this conflict can be resolved. but i don't think it would be fair to say that the russians and the chinese are signed on at this point. what is fair to say is that they

recognize that the current situation is grave, it does not serve their interests. it certainly does not serve the interests of the syrian people, and where we agree is that if we can help the syrian people find a path to a resolution, all of us would be better off. but it's my personal belief and i shared this with them, that i don't see a scenario in which assad stays and violence is reduced. he had an opportunity with the a annan plan. they did not fulfill their side of the deal. instead, we saw escalation and murder of innocent women and children. and at this point, we have the international monitors that were sent in having to leave because of this violence that's being perpetrated, and although you'll hear sometimes from some

commentators that the opposition has engaged in violence as well and obviously there's evidence of that, it's also fair to say that those haunting images that we saw in places like homs, were the direct result of decisions made by the syrian government and ultimately mr. assad is responsible. we had an intensive conversation about it. if you're asking me whether they signed on to that proposition, i don't think it would be fair to say they're there yet, but i'm going to keep on making the argument and my expectation is that at some point, there's a recognition that it's hard to envision a better future for syria while assad is still there. >> juliana? >> thank you, mr. president. one of mitt romney's economic

advisers wrote that your recommendations to europe and germany in particular reveal ignorance of the causes of the crisis and he said that they have the same flaws as your own economic policies. i wunt to get your response to that and also to follow up on ben's question, europe has been kicking the can down the road for years. so why are you any more convinced that we won't see another three-month fix emerge out of brussels at the end of the month? >> well, you know, first of all, with respect to mr. romney's advis advisers, i would suggest you go talk to mr. romney about his advisers. i would point out that we have one president at a time. and one administration at a time. and i think traditionally the notion has been that america's political differences end at the water's edge. i would also suggest that he may not be familiar with what our

suggestions to the germans have been. and i think sometimes back home, there's a desire to superimpose whatever idealogical arguments are taking place back home onto a very complicated situation in europe. you know, the situation in europe is a combination of things. you've got situations where some countries did have undisciplined fiscal practices, public debt. you had some countries like spain whose problems actually arose out of housing speculation and problems in private sector that didn't have to do with public debt. i think that there's no doubt that all of the countries in europe at this point recognize the need for growth strategies

inside of europe, that are consistent with fiscal consolidation plans, and by the way, that's exactly what i think the united states should be thinking about. the essence of the plan that i presented back in september was how do we increase growth and jobs now while providing clarity in terms of how we reduce our deficit and debt medium and long term. and i think that's the right recipe generally, not just for us but across the board. you had a second question. what was it? >> after years -- >> oh, why am i confident? well, look, i don't want to sound polly annish here. resolving the issues in europe is difficult.

as i said, there are a lot of player s involved. there are a lot of complexities to the problems because we're talking about the problems of a bunch of different countries at this point. changing market psychology is very difficult. but the tools are available. the sense of urgency among the leaders is clear. and so what we have to do is combine that sense of urgency with the tools that are available and bridge them in a timely fashion that can provide markets confidence. and i think that can be done. you know, hopefully just to give an example, when spain clarifies exactly how it intends to draw

down and utilize dollars or -- not dollars, but euros to recapalize its banking system, given that it's already got support from other european countries, given that the resources are available, what's missing right now is just a sense of specifics and the path whereby that takes place. when markets see that, that can help build confidence and reverse psychology. so they're going to be a range of steps they can take. none of them are going to be a silver bullet that solves this thing entirely over the next week or two weeks or two months. but each step points to the fact that europe is moving towards further integrate rather than breakup and that these problems

can be resolved and points to the underlying strength in europe's economies. these are not countries that somehow at their core are unproductive or dysfunctional. these are advanced economies with extraordinarily productive people. they've got a particular challenge that has to do with a currency union that didn't have all of the best bells and whistles of fiscal or montearitary union and they're catching up now to some of those needs. they just need the time and space to do it. in the meantime, they have to send a strong signal to the market, and i'm confident they can do that. thank you very much, everybody. >> that was president obama speaking to reporters in los

cabos, mexico, at the conclusion of the g-20 summit. welcome to "the ed show" live from los angeles. the president said the european debt crisis created a heightened sense of urgency. he said the most important thing the united states can do to assist the world economy is act on a jobs plan and the one he once talked about a year ago, and the ones he talked about with congress, and he talked about what congress needs to do. i'm joined tonight by democratic stratdgist bob sclum and unene robinson, one of the best. i want to start with syria. the president, i thought, gave a very interesting comment about both china and russia. bob, it doesn't sound like they're onboard, thinking the way the president does, that assad has got to go in power and he doesn't see any path for him to stay in power. >> i thought he got out the best answer he could have to that question. basically, the answer is no, they're not with us.

he spoke for five or six minutes, said they're not there yet, but i'm going to keep pushing and my expectation is they'll get there. it's going to be tough. >> gene robinson, what is your take on how the president handled the syrian question tonight and also, he seemed to be very vague about what he's going to do with russia and china other than talk to them and try to get them onboard with a u.n. political solution? >> i don't think you can say that he gave us any new information on syria or any reason to be optimistic about a coordinated international effort on syria. he clearly said russia and china are not onboard. and didn't really indicate, he said we're going to get them there, but he didn't indicate how. he didn't indicate when, and i think we have some idea now what that bad body language between him and putin might have been about yesterday. they -- maybe that's the conversation they had just had. >> well, let's turn to the

economy. the president paralleled what is happening in this country with what's going on in europe. some real tough decisions have got to be made, and he transitioned that into that congress can help a lot by passing the jobs plan, the one he's been talking about for months on end. how is that going to play? >> how is that going to play here? i think you know, this was only tan jenjally, ed, and i think that was for political consumption, he does have a role to play as a world leader, and he wanted to strike the right note, so as not to upset the europeans whom he's trying to coax into doing the right things or what he considers the right things about their economic situation, which in turn will be good for the united states. so he had to measure his words there. i think he said what he genuinely believed, which is that, look, we have the biggest economy in the world. we are the engine of the global

economy in a lot of ways, and if our economy gets going and starts creating jobs, that's good for the whole world. and so where's the jobs bill? let's act on it. >> bob schrun, eugene robinson, thank you. coming up, president obama's new immigration policy is a big winner with americans, but mitt romney still can't give a straight answer about whether he would keep it or get rid of it. >> jose antonio vargas joins me for the story. stay with us. i went to a small high school.

the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach. he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number. he was just focused on making sure we were gonna be successful. he would never give up on any of us.

coming up, mitch mcconnell puts romney on the spot. romney won't give away any specifics on any job plans, on any plans he has, actually. bob said he will follow the same strategy as another presidential hopeful. and a catholic group of catholic nuns is speaking out

against the gop budget plan and they're taking their message on the road. i'll talk with the organizer with the nuns on the bus later in the hour. share your thoughts on twitter using the hash tag edshow. we're coming right back. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it? gave it greater horsepower and best in class 38 mpg highway... ...advanced headlights... ...and zero gravity seats? yeah, that would be cool. ♪ introducing the completely reimagined nissan altima. it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ [ slap! ] [ slap! slap! slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium rich tums goes to work in seconds. nothing works faster. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums

starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news. welcome back to "the ed show." president obama ruly has mitt romney totally boxed in by the administration's new immigration policy. mitt romney can still not give a direct answer to a direct question. here he is with fox new's carl cameron. >> why not provide the similar certainty by saying, well, until such time as i pass a new

immigration law to provide that certainty, we'll do away with or not the president's orders? >> we talk about illegal immigration. we have to secure the border, have an employment verification system, and then with the children who were brought in by their parents, how we dial with them is something that deserves a long term solution. >> he still didn't say whether he would keep the new obama immigration policy or get rid of it, so cameron askled him again. >> executive order from president obama stands or does not stand? >> you know, we'll see kind of what the calendar looks like at that point. i'm not going to tell which items come first, second, or third. what i can tell you is those people who come here by virtue of their parents coming here, who came in illegally, that's something i don't want to football with. it's a political matter. >> is your head spinning yet? mitch mcconnell was asked about the obama policy today.

>> i think we're going to wait until we hear what governor romney has to say on the issue. there may be others behind me who want to address t but my view is he's the leader of our party from now until november and we hope beyond, and we're going to wait and see what he has to say about it. >> there you have it. mcconnell, he doesn't know what to say because romney doesn't know what to say. they don't know what to say. they don't have a plan. the obama administration's new stance is both good policy and it is good politics, and it's going to help a lot of americans. americans agree with it. by a two to one in a new poll, independents agree with it. 66% to 26%, a huge margin of approval. but remember, the republicans just don't know what to say about that. let's bring in jose antonio vargas. time magazine contributor, pulitzer prize winner journalist and founder of define america. great to have you with us tonight. >> thank you so much for having me. >> the fact that the republicans can't give a straight answer on

this, how damaging is this when it comes to the latino vote? >> i mean, it's not just the latino vote. you have now a generation of young people in this country, not just latinos, but a multiethnic diverse america who now things the republican party is synonymous with being the anti-immigrant party. that's the lasting impression and it's something they're going to have to figure out what to do with. more importantly, it's fascinating, i was in washington on friday when the order was announced surrounded by a bunch of dream act activists, and to me in just three days now, there's a new normal when it comes to talking about immigration. there's a noticeable shift in the way our country and our politicians are talking about it, and i welcome thak. it's about time. >> i think you are a key to this whole story because of your personal story. and because a lot of americans are out there saying okay, who is this going to help? what does it really mean? how is this going to unfold?

tell us your story. what happens with you? >> i actually came here, was born in the philippines, i came here when i was 12. my mother sent me to live with my grandparents, and it wasn't until i was 16 when i went to the dmv that i figured out that my green card was fake, and what, for 14 years, i worked as a journalist for the washington post and the huffington post, and kind of lived with that lie because i wanted to work, i wanted to pay taxes because people like me do pay taxes and social security. but inspired by a lot of the young dream act activists last summer, i actually came out as an undocumented immigrant in the "new york times" magazine. if you were to tell me that, what, almost a year later, like we went from the headline in my "new york times" essay was o outlaw, and now on the cover of "time" magazine in this essay i wrote surrounded by 35 other undocumented people, it's we are americans, because we are. we just don't have that paper.

>> with this, the president of the united states, in a sense, has shifted the conversation -- >> absolutely. >> shifted the accept nls of how we should be viewing this, which is a monumental shift for a lot of americans, would you agree? >> i would parallel it with the gay rights movement. to me what is fascinating is we have now a generation of young people, to come out, to come out about being undocumented is a positive life afirming thing, just in the way it's being used in the gay rights community. that is a testament, by the way, to the work of a lot of lgtb leaders in the past few decades, and it says a lot about an emerging american majority. the country is changing. we're embracing the fact that these quote/unquote other people aren't really other people. >> jose, it's almost comical how the republicans don't have an answer for this. i think that they despise this president so much, they can't bring themselves to say, you

know, this really is the right thing to do. let's give it a foundation and move forward with immigration reform in this country. your thoughts on that. >> i want to give the republican party the benefit of the doubt. i was on bill o'reilly on fox news and he said he agreed there should be a path for people like me to become citizens. i was on mike huckabee's radio show earlier today and he did the same thing, agrees there should be a path for people like me. look, i have covered presidents, i have covered presidential campaigns, and i have never been allowed to vote because i can't vote, but i think it's time for us, again, to come up with a solution. >> so mike huckabee radio talk show host, former candidate -- >> former candidate. >> last election cycle, bill o'reilly, okay, we know his position in the media in this country. all right, but mitt romney can't bring himself to saying it's the right thing to do or whether if he is elected, whether he's going to keep this policy or not. i find it amazing. >> well, me, too.

>> jose antonio vargas, great to have you on "the ed show," appreciate your time. up next, bob schrum on mitt romn romney's failure to lead or take any position on anything. ♪

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unlike president obama, you don't have to wait until after the election to find out what i believe. or what my plans are. >> welcome back to "the ed show." now, mitt romney keeps telling

us he's got a plan. but he keeps refusing to give us answers on some of the most critical issues facing this country. now, think progress went out and listed the issues romney just keeps dodging. romney won't say whether he would undo the new immigration policy, he won't commit to the paycheck fairness act. he won't tell us which tax loopholes he would close to make his budget work. he can't name the federal agencies he wants to cut. he refuses to say whether he would have signed the lilly ledbetter fair pay act. he won't take a stand on the violence against women act and he won't talk about the carried interest tax break which is huge, my friends. candidate romney, don't you think he owes us a few answers? but it seems like he's simply following in the footsteps of another famous politician of decades ago. republican candidate thomas dewy, dewy, i tell you, this guy

was famous for making sweeping statements, very generic that sounded good, but he never got into the devil in the detail or the specifics. it works for dewey, and he almost beat harry truman in 1948. just like the empty speeches are working for mitt rom nay as he closed the gap on the president. watch the comparison. let's start with free enterprise. >> americans have come to pass under our free system of productive enterprise. >> not just because i love job creators. it's because i love jobs. >> the only way to win the peace is to provide strength. >> american strength is essentially for our kids, for us, and for the world. >> the only thing they're afraid of is strength greater than his. >> i have the force to communicate our strength. >> there will begin in washington the biggest unraveling, unsnarling, untangling operation in our nation's history. >> we got to have people who stop thinking of themselves of

just republicans and democrats and think of themselves as americans. >> i thank you with all of my heart for your friendship and confidence. >> i love this country. >> we're out of time. >> i'm getting the sign you're ready for lunch. >> is our time gone? >> you're the best. thank you. >> he must have gone to a football coach's clinic and gotten the old playbook. avoiding specifics really worked for dewey. the pollsters stopped polling because they thought truman didn't have a chance to win the election, and of course, the chicago daily tribune assumed dewey had won the election, but that's there real winner holding up the paper, harry truman. the american voters saw through dewye's empty rhetoric in 1948. now romney is putting the american voters to the test in 2912. i'm joining by bob schrum. you wrote a fascinating article on this.

when did it come to you? >> i was doing my column for the daily beast, and he was doing this thing on which he wouldn't say if he would repeal. he said, this fits a pattern. if he gets asked about bain, he flees, he says it will destroy medicare when it will help it. i had a headline, he wanted this election, he wants this election to be a pure referendum. his question is, how do you feel about the economy? if you don't feel all that good, maybe you ought to take a chance on me. dewey's question was, a referendum, who is more presidential. he thought he was more presidential, to me, he seems stiff there. in facts, he and romney both resemble a description as dewey as the little man on the wedding came.

>> can romney get away with being nonspecific until november? . it's going to be tough. romney is going to get asked the questions. if he ducks the questions and ducks them conspock wsly, people are going to figure out he's not on their side, and by the way, when he's asked the question could things get worse, the answer is yet. >> the difference is the money. romney is going to be packed up with a lot of super pac money that is going to drive up the negatives of the president. is it really a fair comparison? >> actually, in 19 frathd, the republicans had significantly more money than truman did. they were scraping money together to keep the whistle stop trip on the road, and truman who had critics on his party, there was even a dump truman movement in 1948, took the advice, and every single day went out there and was quote/unquote controversial as hell. >> let's get to the debates you mentioned. john kerry is going to play a role in this for barack obama.

tell us about it. >> it's a brilliant choice. i work with senator kerry in 2004, we lost that narrowly, but he won the three debates. what you want when you're perfecting someone to play your opponent is you want the best possible person you can pick. you want someone who is going to be a better romney than romney. and cakerry is certainly capabl of that. he'll have romney down, understand what he will do, and he'll debate well. >> we're at the point trying to figure out if this is a romney strategy to not get specific until the debates or he really doesn't have answers and doesn't have a plan. >> he has a plan. his plan is to slash medicare. his plan is to get rid of a whole lot of government departments. his plan is to shred the social safety net in so many different ways, his plan is to turn student loans over to bankers. he can't afford to tell us. dewey couldn't afford to tell the country, either. coming up, next, joy reed,

ari, and megan on the attack on women's roilths going on across the country including michigan, where this was the scene last night. stay tuned, you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc.

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[ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ he is -- v is for -- >> vagina. >> v is also for our voice. >> welcome back to "the ed show." republicans are receiving major pushback in the state of michigan for visilencing their state representatives lisa brown and barb byrum. roughly 7500 people gathered outside of the capitol of michigan last night to listen to a reading of vagina monologues. the play's author eve ensler was in the audience. it was held in response to lisa brown being censured by using the word vagina.

brown had a clear message for republicans yesterday. >> we're not going to let legislators turn the clock back to the '60s where women didn't have a right, and weren't insured they were going to have access to safe health care. and in my speech, i made a few points. but i dared utter the word vagina. we shouldn't be legislating vag vaginas if you can't say vagina. >> republicans better be paying attention. yesterday's event sent a clear signal. americans don't want their legislators being silenced for debating the issues. >> you see two reps banned from speaking on an issue of reproductive rights is outrageous. it's outrageous. and i am not surprised that it has sparked this kind of response. >> all right, for more on this,

let's turn to our panel, joy reed, ari, and megan mccain, co author of a new book with an interesting title. all right, joy, tell me, 2500 people show up in lancing to say, leave us alone and why can't we talk about this? how much of an outrage is this going to help democrats going into november? >> in a lot of ways, i have lost my capacity for surprise when it comes to politics. this issue actually is surprising. there's almost an obsessive quality to the republican kind of obsession with women's health care when it comes to abortion and legislating women's health care issues whether it's planned parenthood or something like this, where basically these two women were told you can't talk about this. we men are legislating your fill in the word. it's sort of an infantalizing of

women that is jarring to a lot of young women who aren't used to this '70s era politics. at the sate as well as the federal level, there's sort of an obsession with these issues among a lot of republican men. >> meghan, do you think a lot of republicans have to learn when you're speaking on this, you're not going to win? >> i think when they say it's not to be said by a woman, you can't help but think we're regressing as a culture when it comes to women's issues. >> virginia, the state of virginia had their own heated abortion debate earlier this year, and a recent poll shows 72% of virginiaens don't want government interfering with private decisions about abortion. ari, i can't get away from this. why do the republicans keep going down this road when it's in the polls aba an absolute loser for them? >> i think they have some element of stock home syndrome with their base. they look at the tea party of

delivering a lot in the midterms. they had a very loud, very angry primary season and i'm not sure they have pivoted out and figured out what is going on in the rest of the country. these are missteps, and the other point is when you control language, you control ideas. there's a longstanding type of reverse political correctness on the right where they want to say you can say this, you can't say that, or we can talk about va n vaginas as it relates to abortion and controlling things and trying to gin up pro life outrage, but you can't talk about vaginas for your perspective. the fact we have to have this language debate tells you hoe controlling the environment is. and the other point i'll make is that, look, obviously, there are people who are of good faith and have strong religious beliefs here. and that is one element that drives this conversation. but there are others who are backing things like saying women can't make these decisions until they're briefed or given certain

operations or instructions by their doctor or women should have to check with their husbands. that's been an issue in state laws. i don't like at that as simply pro life. i look at that as sexists. >> i agree. there's a difference between being prolife and pro choice, and i remember the discussion about vaginal probing. there's a difference between humiliating a woman and belittling them. i don't believe there's any woman out there who is pro abortion, and i think we're regressing as a culture when you can't say the word vagina, and would it be such an issue if a male congressman had said the word vagina. >> romney was campaigning in michigan, and here is what he had to say. >> i'm going to win michigan with your help. we're going to take back the white house. we're going to get america on track and keep it the hope of the worth. >> joy, what does the abortion debate mean for him in michigan?

he says if he win s michigan, h wins the white house. >> he should be competitive in michigan. his father was the governor there. this illustrates the extent to which romney has failed to exercise leadership over the party. the three wings of the party, two of three were never really -- they didn't really like romney during the primary. you have the evangelical wing that may not trust him for a lot of reasons. one because he's a mormon. you have the business wing that is all in for him, and then the tea party wing. mitt romney doesn't like to talk about the issues. he just want to talk about the economy. in michigan, the other problem is hie was against the auto bailout. >> meghan, your father ran for president, he was direct on the issues, but we're not getting that out of romney. is this his waterloo? >> he doesn't really need to talk about anything else because at the end of the day, that's the only thing americans are going to be concentrating on.

we have 9% unemployment rate, and romney doesn't have to talk about anything else. >> joy, ari, and meghan, great to have you with us on "the ed show." >> coming up, today in wisconsin, a bus full of nuns protused the republican ryan budget. tonight, the nuns on the bus are on "the ed show." stay tuned. [ female announcer ] women have made it the number one selling anti-aging cream undeniably. it creamed unbelievably a $500 cream and now women have made regenerist microsculpting cream also unscented. women love it. in original and also fragrance-free.

a big group of catholic nuns are on the road trailing milt romney's tour to protest ryan's plan on the gop on the poor. i'll ask the organizer what she thinks about the plan. you can listen to me on sirius monday through friday, noon to 3:00 p.m. and follow me on twitter on the edshow. we're coming back with the big finish. ion tdd# 1-800-345-2550 you and your money deserve. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, that means taking a close look at you tdd# 1-800-345-2550 as well as your portfolio.

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coming up, nuns on the bus. a group of catholic sisters out protesting the ryan budget. they pay a visit to the

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cymbalta can help. go to cymbalta.com to learn about a free trial offer. go to cymbalta.com avoid bad.fats. don't go over 2000... 1200 calories a day. carbs are bad. carbs are good. the story keeps changing. so i'm not listening... to anyone but myself. i know better nutrition when i see it: great grains. great grains cereal starts whole and stays whole. see the seam? more processed flakes look nothing like natural grains. you can't argue with nutrition you can see. great grains. search great grains and see for yourself. for multi grain flakes that are an excellent source of fiber try great grains banana nut crunch and cranberry almond crunch. in this coming election, we're going to make a choice. what kind of country do we want to have. what kind of people do we want to be? >> welcome back to "the ed show." that was congressman paul ryan at a rally among the mitt romney

bus tour, making the case that the republican presidential nominee is the guy to go with. well, romney fully embraces the republican budget plan proposed by ryan, a plan that guts the safety net programs for the poor in this country. ryan himself credits his catholic faith as the justification for the devastating cuts. >> a person's faith is central to how they conduct themselves in public and private. to me, using my catholic faiths, the social magisterium, how do you apply the doctrine of your teaching into your everyday life as a layperson. >> but a group of nuns are questioning his social justice. they're embarking on a bus tour of their own across nine states, protesting the ryan plan. the tour launched in iowa where the nuns visited the office of steve king. the sisters said they made an appointment with the congressman, who is a catholic,

but when they arrived at the doors of steve king, the office appeared closed. today, they arrived in wisconsin, the home of paul ryan. let's turn to sister simone campbell, organizer of the nuns on a bus tour. sister, good to have you with us tonight. i want to get your reaction of what you just heard from paul ryan, his justification for these cuts through his faith as a catholic. what do you make of that? >> well, it may be what his faith tells him, but he certainly doesn't know the fullness of faith. he only talks about individual responsibility, and that's only half of the story. the rest of the story is that we know we can be responsible but only in community. we have to have each other's backs. that's what the christian faith is about. and so i like to say that because congressman ryan only has half the facts, he's 100% wrong when it comes to

interpreting his faith. >> is the ryan budget plan, in your opinion, immoral and it doesn't measure up to his faith? >> i like the u.s. conference of catholic bishops and all of the bishops in -- catholic bishops in the united states agree it is wrong-headed. they call it immoral, and we're standing with our bishops. it devastates those at the margins while giving further benefits to those at the top of our society. that's the wrong way. they've got it backwards. it's not what jesus would do and it's against all of the social principles we hold dear. >> it's not what jesus would do. that's a big statement. are you willing to tell the congressman that to his face? >> oh, absolutely. in fact, we have tried to have meetings with him, but i haven't been successful so far. i have talked to other members of congress, and specifically, raised up the gospel questions. the fact is, a lot of people can have different opinions, but when you break open the gospel

and you look at where jesus was, jesus was always at the margins of society. and the fact is people worry about making people dependent on programs, that's true, but the fact is our programs, responsible programs lift people out of poverty, and what our bus trip is showing is the wonderful work done by catholic sisters, the success stories that responsible programs can point to. so that programs are required, community is required to help people make change. that's why we're doing the bus trip. >> how can republican catholics support this budget and be good catholics? >> well, i don't quite know. i think there are good catholics because they try to follow their conscious, but if their life experience is only with people at the top, if no one -- if they have not had the experience of like i just did at st. benedict's food serving place up right here in milwaukee, if they

haven't sat next to billy like i did and found out his struggle, he moved up here from chicago for his kids, a 4-year-old and a 13-year-old, because he knew chicago was a bad influence for them. he's having a really hard time because the economy cut his job, so shehe's coming to the food serving most nights in order to get food so he can serve his kids food at home. this guy is struggling. he's working really hard. if you don't have a chance to talk to folks like that, you think, they're just lazy. you can make all kinds of excuses. we as catholics know you have to put yourself in relationship with folks who struggle. >> well, you're heading to the offices of speaker john boehner in ohio. he's also a catholic. what kind of response are you expecting to get from the speaker? >> well, we'll be meeting with his staff. we met with his staff in d.c. they have a tendency to get focused on specific details about specific programs. our message to the speaker is there's an alternative.

we have worked hard in the interfaith community in washington to create a budget that raises reasonable revenue for responsible programs. that's what we're about. we have to take care of the debt situation in our nation, but that's not because of social services. that's because we went to war and then we slashed taxed. it's the first time in our history we have done that. we need to make up for lost time. that means we need to pay our just debts. we also need to make sure we invest for the future. that's the way forward. a faithful budget is an alternative and we want to talk to john boehner about it. >> thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. the "rachel maddow show" show starts right now. >> thank you for staying with us for the next hour. in the past hour, president obama has wrapped up a late in the day press conference in mexico before he got back onboard air force one to travel back from the two-day g-20 summit in los cabos.

you know, they have to really feel for the mitt romney campaign on a day like today. i mean, this is one of those days that it has to feel frustrating to be running against an incumbent president just in terms of the optics you can arrange for your candidate's daily schedule. today, the guy who is not president but who wants to be pr president was in a pie shop rolling out dough. literally, dough, in front of reporters. being seen to be making a pie. his wife, ann romney, posing with a cookie in the shape of a mitten. because -- we we drop the bug. mitten shaped. it's funny, and this is helping for the optics because her husband's name is mitt, as in mitten. they were in michigan, looks like a mitten. looking at a mitten shaped by michigan. marvelous. optics on one side. optics on the other side, the man that mr. mitten is