tv Jansing and Co. MSNBC June 27, 2012 10:00am-11:00am EDT
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with obama and mitt romney just cannot get over that hump. down into the swing state numbers, too. it's a dead heat but president obama still has that kind of small margin. even though a lot of trends seemed like they were going the wrong way for obama and, as you said, mitt romney -- everybody thought mitt romney had a great june. according to this poll, he didn't have a great june. >> he had a great may and going into june, it's interesting to me, david, when we were looking at the primaries, we were talking about the enthusiasm gap that people were reluctantly backing mitt romney. 58% of romney supporters say their report is more against obama than for romney. so does that mean that this election turns out to be a referendum on health care or the economy it's bad for the president? ? >> well, if it's a referendum on the economy, it's not going to be good for the president. he want this election to be
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about whether obama has done a good job handling the economy. and the polls show that americans are still disappointed on that front. they think he's tried hard, they like him, at certain points in the past year they feel better about the economy than other points. but generally they are not satisfied. obama wants this campaign to be a choice between romney, who people don't like much, and obama who they like more. so from the romney perspective, what works best is to have a nondescript gop stand-in which is nonobama. which is why you don't hear romney talking about policy details and going at obama in terms of what the real differences are here on policies. all of the polls show that americans are in a sour mood. they don't like the economy, health care system, and they
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don't like health care reform either. it's an era of bad feelings which makes it hard for both campaigns. >> it's interesting when you look at the breakdowns, and one of the most telling and tell me what you think about this, josh, this is concerning for the president, he seems to have had a good result with a lot of his attack on sort of the one versus 99. but on noncollege educated, mitt romney is killing him. what is going on there? >> this has been the president's problem really from the start. it's a bad demographic for him. obviously he has great numbers with hispanics, african-americans, but, yes, it's a bad number for him. i think back to what david said, mitt romney wants this to be president obama versus the economy. with mitt romney somewhere else we've never seen him. if romney can do that, this economy is pretty low. and the poll in the last couple
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months obama's been able to stoke up his supporters. he's done it with the gay and lesbian communities and with hispanics. that's what is keeping him in this race. with a tiny, tiny lead, even though you have those terrible numbers with that one demographic. >> we should say in advance of the big supreme court decision tomorrow, our nbc news wall street journal poll asks people about health care. 37% say they would be pleased if the president's health care law is struck down. 22% would be disappointed. but 39%, that's the largest number, say their reaction would be mixed. let me bring in sen barasso. is the gop in no rush to legislate? if there's a plan b, what is going to happen if all or part of this law is struck down, at least from the republican
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perspective? >> if only part of the law is struck down, the plan would be to repeal the rest of the law. as a doctor, someone who ran for office because i know we have problems with the health care system, it was bad before but the obama health care law actually makes it worse and i agree with your previous discussion. this is going to be a referendum on the president. this election with 8.2% unemployment and so much uncertainty because cht health care law, businesses and entrepreneurs are afraid because they just don't know the cost of some of these things. they are not willing to hire more people now and that is hurting the economy. >> for the average american and there are a lot of them for whom this is already benefiting, people who have been added to their parent's plans because they are still in school, 60,000 people with pre-existing conditions that can get insurance now, 5.1 seniors who have gotten prescription drugs, what do you say to them? >> i say the health care system
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wasn't working before and it's not working now and it's worse under the president's health care law. insurance companies have aeady said that many of those people are going to be able to continue to stay, those young people on their parent's plan regardless of what the supreme court does. for people with pre-existing conditions, my wife is a breast cancer survivor. she's been through three operations, chemotherapy twice. i know the need as a doctor and as a husband of being able to address the issues of people with pre-existing conditions. states have done that with high-risk pools and have done it in a way that is much more cost-effective than what this massive 2700 page law that very few people have read and it's even harder to understand after you've read it. so we need a step by step solution. >> there can be a debate about some of the points that you talk about, but let me ask you about something sarah palin put on her facebook page last night. she's still insisting that the
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health care law includes death panels. though i was called a liar for calling it like it is, many of the accusers finally saw that obamacare did include faceless bureaucrats who have the power to make life and death decisions about health care funding. if a constituent came to you and said, is she telling the truth, how would you respond? >> i want to eliminate the entire law, have the entire law repealed. there is is a portion of the law, the independent payment advisory board unelected bureaucrats that is going to determine, if anything, how much is paid for different kinds of care in this country. very little for congress to overrule that. that is another reason that we need to eliminate the entire health care laand then start in a step by step process to get what people wanted from the beginning. >> but the law prohibits -- >> and i'm going to choose at a low cost. that's what the health care
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reform should have been prohibited by law to recommend and i'm trying to understand what your position is is. do you believe that under the health care law that some sort of death panel is created? >> i believe that the independent advisory board is going to reimburse for health care for different procedures and treatments and by ratcheting down what they have been paying for different things, that is going to have an impact and we'll basically result in denying care to people with the decision being made by an unelected group of bureaucrats as opposed to the decision being
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made by the doctor and the patient working together. not an insurance company bureaucrat or a government bureaucrat. >> senator john barrasso, thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> david, whatever the ruling is, it doesn't sound like it's going to change the debate, is it in. >> it's not going to change the debate. you didn't have the guts to say no. thesare not debt panels because he doesn't want to get the tea party people or sarah palin mad at him. obviously he wouldn't agree with that characterization. when you go back to the whole bush years, house republicanses coming into power, what laws, what bills have they passed to deal with the issues that the initiative deals with? so, again, a lot of rhetoric. not even just replace, sometimes to get rid of it. you look at the polling that is
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out today and it's been out and the public is so divided on what they think about the health care system, about health care are reform. no matter what happens tomorrow with the supreme court decision, each side, the romney camp and obama camp -- there's not going to be a net gain or built in advantage for either side as they try to deal with health care, if they decide to deal with health care up to the november election. >> of course, mitt romney would like to think that there is and he has made finally some comments specifically about it, depending on what the outcome is. let me play it for you. >> if obamacare is not deemed constitutional, the first 3 1/2 years of this president's term will have been wasted on something that is not for the american people. >> i think what mitt romney is doing is trying to get out of the way of obama and the economy. again, i think that appeals to people who already hate obamacare and what you see with
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senator barrasso, as long as there's a big balloon that says obamacare, that's great. as when it comes to specifics, and, again, you're talking about things like the debt panel and the individual mandate, david, tomorrow when this decision comes down, what are we going to hear from mitt romney? what are we going to hear from the president, do you think? will we hear immediately -- >> i know what mitt romney is going to say. he's going to say this decision indicates there's been a failure of leadership on the president's part. that doesn't matter. that's the buzz phrase that applies to everything. immigration, health care, what is his health care? what is he going to do to give 47 million americans? it was individual mandate in massachusetts. what is it going to be now? he'll stick to those talking points. the president will be able to
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say one of two things. if it's upheld, see, i delivered for you, or if it's not upheld, see republican-appointed justices are blocking the policies that help working americans and i'm going to continue to fight for them and these policies, specifics are popular. you've got to support me. >> david corn, always great to have you on the program. josh, thank you for coming in. good news coming out of congress. a deal. they have reached an agreement to keep interest on student loans from doubling to 6.8%. reid even commended house republicans for working with him. we're expecting more specifics today. house speaker john boehner says it's not exactly finished yet. a couple of big results from the primaries last night, orrin hatch and charlie rangel who have are served in congress for a combined 76 years aren't done
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house republican leaders have rejected an offer to avoid tomorrow's historic vote that could hold attorney general eric holder in contempt for refusing to turn over more documents related to the botched fast and furious operation. there could be more defections after the national rifle association said they would include it in the scorecard. joining me now, former aide to eric holder, matthew miller.
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good to see you. good morning. >> good morning. >> darryl issa has predicted as many as 31 democrats will join the republicans and vote in favor of contempt. what do you think is going on here? >> well, i don't think it will be that high number. i think you'll see a small number of democrats join, which is unfortunate. but not unexpected given what the nra has said is the top three issues of the year. this has always been more about political theater and appealing to the extreme right wing than it has been about uncovering any facts in the fast and furious. >> would you think that if a significant number of democrats would negate the argument that this is a republican witch hunt? >> no, i don't think it will be a significant number. i think it will be a small number. the nra has a pattern of
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retaliating against someone that doesn't side with them. we've been dealing with that since the beginning. >> the rnc has been talking about this a lot and -- we don't have the video? okay. they just released -- okay. we don't have it. there's this new web video called from hope to hypocrisy. obviously this is not just the republicans in congress and the nra, the rnc has been very involved in this because clearly they think that there is a price to pay for the president. what do you see as a political calculation here? >> he has uncovered the facts here and they've shown that no senior department justice officials from the attorney general to other officials in washington knew anything about what happened with respect to gun walking in arizona and fast and furious. they don't like that answer. they've rejected any opportunity for a deal.
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they had a deal on the opportunity last week that they wouldn't take. they had another on the table last night that they wouldn't take. they can't take yes for an answer because what they really want is to grandstand. there's an investigation out this morning that looked into what happened and really lays out the fact that chairman issa has done and this was a field level tactic not approved by washington, not signed off by washington and that really is what happened. it ought to be the end of it. >> so you don't see any opportunity for some sort of last-minute deal that could be worked out to avoid this? >> you have to look at what his motivations are and in the beginning this has been -- he's made this about political extreme conspiracies somehow and an attempt to gun up control for
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gun legislation. when you look at that, he's probably looking for the contempt vote and all of the evidence supports that. >> finally, we just got this sound. you know, every wednesday they come out oh of the republican leadership meeting. this is what he said just minutes ago about the whole fast and furious and the holder contempt vote. here it is. >> we're going to proceed. we've given them ample opportunity to comply, even as late as yesterday. the white house sat down with some of our staff to outline what they would be willing to do. unfortunately, they are not willing to show the american people the truth about what happened. >> you know, i wonder if -- and you hear this kind of back and forth going on and people are worried about the economy and presumably worried about what is going on in the supreme court, much more so than what we're seeing right there. and is this the kind of thing
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that suppresses votes on both sides, this is the kind of thing that makes people say that congress has a 10 or 15% approval rating and throw up their hands and say, my vote doesn't matter any way because washington doesn't get anything done? >> i would hope not but you touched on something. one of the reason that congress has a 10 or 15% approval rating is because they keep pursing these kinds of side shows. they have worked on issues that are important to the american public that voters say they want them to work on and instead what you see is in pursing political witch hunts and i think you're right, most of the americans are turned off by that. i hope they realize what the republican congress is really doing here. matthew miller, good to see you. thank you so much for coming on. >> thanks for having me. tributes are pouring in for nora ephron. she was behind classic films
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like "when harry met sally" and "sleepless in seattle." >> she had a great ear for how we sounded and how we talked to each other and i think people would watch her films and watch the work that she did and they would connect because they saw themselves. >> tom hanks, who starred in two of her films, said, she lifted us all with wisdom and wit. bill ree crystal said, i was very lucky to get to say her words. nora ephron had been very private about her battle with leukemia. she was 71 years old. where youn by curveballs. ♪ this is the age of knowing how to get things done. so, why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex.
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i think you've g to say to people at home which is more important, going to a place where a bunch of party honchos and cocktail parties or being at home with them. this is never a hard call for me. everyone is trying to make it a big deal. it's stupid. >> it has nothing to do with the president not being popular? >> absolutely not. no. >> president obama is having lunch with abu dhabi crown prince. and donald trump is hosting a $50,000 a head luncheon. and a poll asked which candidate would be able to better handle an alien invasion? the answer, 65% said president
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obama. about a third in that same poll said ufos exist. and if you read only one thing this morning, the huffington post has an amazing tribute to nora ephron. don't you, when you flip around and get like "sleepless in seattle," you stop and watch it for the 100th time? amazing. it's at facebook/jansingco. against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ female announcer ] live the regular life. it's time to live wider awake. only the beautyrest recharge sleep system combines the comfort of aircool memory foam layered on top of beautyrest pocketed coils to promote proper sleeping posture all night long. the revolutionary recharge sleep system... from beautyrest.
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[ voice of dennis ] the allstate value plan. it's their most affordable car insurance -- and you still get an allstate agent. i too have... [ voice of dennis ] allstate. [ normal voice ] same agent and everything. it's like we're connected. no we're not. yeah, we are. no...we're not. ♪ ask an allstate agent about the value plan. are you in good hands? >> you've got to give mitt romney credit. he's been very good at creating jobs overseas.
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>> a new poll finds 28% view romney's bain experience negatively. up 6% from january. i'm joined by joe watkins, former white house aide in the george h.w. bush administration. steve is a strategist and deputy campaign manager to john kerry in 2004. gentlemen, good morning. >> good to be here. >> here we have, steven, in an election about the economy. it was supposed to be an ace in the hole, yet you have the business poll, overall negative ratings back to an all-time high of 39%. some democrats didn't like it, but are the bain attacks working, do you think? >> the obama campaign is right fully challenging that record and puing the facts on the
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table and it is working. i think one of the downsides is romney is not that well known yet. the american people, the swing voters don't know much about him and the obama campaign is giving them new information and when they get that new information, they are not informed. >> thas an interesting point. what you don't want to do is let your opponent, joe, define you before you get to define yourself. and steve is right. if you look at the battleground states which we polled a dozen of them, it grows to 8 percentage points. what do you think about the bain strategy? is it working? >> i think it's early in the process. there's a lot of pessimism with regard to the economy. >> then would you think that the guy that says i created jobs would be doing a little better. >> i think he's going to do better and better. i think steve made a good point, a lot of people don't know mitt romney yet. >> are you worried as a republican that he's letting the obama campaign define him? >> no, i'm not worried about it. i think the real campaign begins in earnest with the fall
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campaign. i think he's got to give him confidence as he's going to continue to do and put americans back to work. that's what americans want more than anything else, tell me how you can put me he back to work. >> tell me about this poll, the cloud where you sort of ask people to free associate things. what are the first words that come to mind for each candidate? for mitt romney the strengths include good businessman, his negatives were wealthy,ad and out of touch related to favoring the wealthy. so does he need to go much more on the offensive about this, do you think, joe? i'm not sure that this offshoring versus outsourcing, is this the strongest that they have? >> most people know that wealthy people are the ones that hire folks. there's a lot of confidence, if you know that he's somebody that
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knows how to create jobs and has made money, that's a good thing. if you want to some day yourself be working, nobody poor hires people. they don't have the capacity to do that. the fact that he's a wealthy guy is something that he doesn't have to hide and say, you know what, i've made money because i've understood business and i've understood how to put other people to work and putting other people to work has made me a very successful guy. i'll do the same thing for america that i did for massachusetts that i did with the u.s. olympics and for others. >> the first words, steve, that came to mind when they heard the name barack obama and they were, i think, maybe surprisingly obamacare, good leader for the people. what do you think about tomorrow's supreme court ruling? how important is it for this race, for barack obama? >> i think from the list, good leader and for the people, it's very important that that's what people think about when they think of barack obama. i think as time goes on with his
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health care plan, people realize it helps a lot of people. it's impossible to predict what the court is going to do tomorrow and -- >> we want to help people. we just don't want to cause the economy more trouble. that's the biggest concern. we want to help every american we possibly can help but we don't want to do anything to injure the already fragile economy. >> good to see you both. >> thank you. the coast guard believes there may be stowaways in a container on a ship that came to the u.s. via egypt. they have not opened up the container yet, as far as we know. we will keep you posted. also, debby has been downgraded to a tropical depression but the storm threatens florida and parts of the southeast with potentially historic flooding. some areas have been drenched by
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more than 2 feet of rain. how are you doing, jim cantore? >> reporter: i'm doing okay. debby could become a tropical storm now that it's out on the water and away from the land. it doesn't matter what the strength is. it's fresh water. if you go back and look at may 31st, we were in drought. this whole area was in very, very bad drought. we've had two tropical storms. after that, there's no place for the fresh water to go, the rain that comes out of the sky. maybe it will take two to three days before this goes done. you can see it's much deeper in the tune of four to six inches. i understand there is a car down
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there. i can't show you because the tree is blocking the shot. other than that, this is just one example of the way it is here in live oak. really across north central florida. as this fresh water goes down, the rivers are going to come up. they have not come up and crested. once they stay up because florida is so flat, they are going to stay into july here, maybe a week be above flood stage in some of these spots. just a horrible situation. people that tried to ride out the storm in their homes, could take care of business, they are getting weary and are having to be rescued from their home. once you spend a day in your house and water on the first floor, it gets uncomfortable and certainly those people want to get out. we understand here in live oak they are still doing search and rescue. plus, interstate 10, a major thoroughfare, you can't get to jacksonville. it's still underwater at this hour. >> jim, thank you for that update. take care. >> reporter: you bet. meanwhile, 30,000 people have been evacuated from colorado springs because of those out of control wildfires.
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a total of 30,000 people have been evacuated throughout el paso county. dozens of homes were consumed. and stay good-bye to the ncaa bowl championship series because college football will now have a four-team playoff. starting in 2014, a selection committee will pick the top teams to face off in two semifinals and then the winners advance to the national championship game. the 2012 london olympic games are getting closer. just a month away from now. 2011 was one of the worst closings for health-related closings for beaches. the cleanest beaches nationwide, among the spots earning a five-star rating, california's newport, huntington state and bolsa chica beaches and
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oh, you're good! hey, did you know that honey nut cheerios is... oh you too! ooh, hey america's favorite cereal is... honey nut cheerios ok then off to iceland! good news for morning people. new research shows that not only are you happier but you have a better outlook than night owls. morning people have better immune systems at well. the countdown is on for one of the most controversial decisions of our lifetime on president obama's health care law. we wanted to dig down to what it will really mean. richard liu has been doing that
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for us. >> good morning, chris. the deficit would suffer if the health care law is repealed, says the congressional budget office. a repeal would cost $230 billion. though that may be too high or low depending on outcomes. estimates in play here are 33 million people in the next ten years. that's a number that the cbo says will receive coverage they wouldn't have otherwise. now, here are some of who have already benefited from the health care law. the centers for medicare and medicaid found over five million senior citizens and people with disability have taken advantage of prescription drug savings under the affordable care act. you total all of that up and it's close to $3.7 billion or over $700,000 on average per person. now, the young also have something at stake here, too. those under 26 can stay on their parent's insurance because of
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the law and so far over three million have done that. some insurance companies like this policy so much they will keep it regardless of the ruling. the urban institute takes on a different angle on the law's impact. they point to the imbalance of those without insurance. 22% african-americans and 33% of hispanic-americans and could cut it by a quarter and the black-white gap by half. it's not all about becoming insured, though. there's important revenue related to the health care law, too. the tanning bed tax, for instance, generated $54 million over nine months last year meeting only about a quarter of the estimates. looking at the short list of who the ruling will affect, chris, it's hard to think of who it won't. >> it's going to be unbelievable tomorrow. we're all holding our breath and it's widely speculated that chief justice will be the
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landmark supreme court ruling. for an insight of who he is and what is going on behind the scenes, let me bring in joshua holly who is an associate professor and i'm joined by josh gerstein. since you know john roberts, he's been called many things related to this. very aware of his legacy, a good politician, someone very concerned about the perception that the court has become too politicized. is that the john roberts you know? >> the john roberts i know is very concerned about the institutional reputation to the court and i think takes his responsibility to that institution very seriously. >> of course, we want to know how this all plays into the decision. will he swing it one way or another? how do you think he has shaped and guided the discussions that led to this decision? take us inside the court. how are these decisions made?
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>> well, the justices meet in conference very shortly after hearing the oral arguments and the way it works the justices go around the table, the chief justice goes first, speak in order of seniority. each justice says how he or she intends to vote and gives a brief explanation of reasoning and the chief, because he leads off that discussion, does have the opportunity to shape the discussion in a way but it is a very collegial discussion can among equals. i can assure you there would have been a lot of candid give and take and everyone would have had a chance to have his or her say. >> it's interesting, one of the things i read is that he wasn't very happy that during oral arguments there seemed to be levity, some joking around. would that surprise you if he is inappropriate? >> he is very serious about the institutional reputation of the court. he takes very seriously the constitutional role so i'm sure he has wanted the proper decorum to be observed at all times and
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i'm sure he is taking, if he is indeed drafting the opinion, he's taking it very, very seriously and doing it very, very carefully. >> josh, you wrote that we may have gotten a hint on where roberts may rule. what's the thinking? >> well, there are some experts who look at the decision we got monday in the immigration case out of arizona which is also known as sb-1070. there were a couple parts of that decision where chief justice sided with liberal wing of the court and also with justice kennedy. in favor of the government's authority to control immigration and also he signed on to a very moderate opinion written by kennedy and voted for by the liberal wing of the court and some liberals, some people who supported the health care law, thought that that was a positive sign, that at least in some instances chief justice was willing to join with his liberal colleagues and produce something that was close to a consensus
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view, even if it didn't pick up the conservatives on the court. >> but if he went away from the conservatives on this decision, i mean, quantify that. that would be shocking, wouldn't it? certainly on the individual mandate? >> yes. most -- that's what i hear most people say, that it's either going to be a 6-3 decision to uphold the law or a 5-4 decision to strike down. and that's because chief justice roberts has almost never joined with the liberal justices on the court alone without at least one other republican appointee on the court with him. in fact, there's no instance in the roughly six years that he's been chief justice where he joined with the entire liberal court alone in a 5-4 decision and he's only come close to doing that. most people think indeed the law is going to be up held, it will mean that the law has garnered
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his vote and justice kennedy's vote as well as democratic appointees on the court in favor of upholding it. >> professor, i don't know if you've gone through the intellectual practice of which way each justice will vote, but do you want to give us your take on how you think justice roberts will vote? >> well, chris, if i had to guess, i would suspect that the chief justice would vote to strike down the mandate as unconstitutional but would uphold the rest of the law. that is, would find that the mandate is severable and it would be a 5-4 vote. but, again, there's really no way of knowing. josh mentioned the arizona case announced two days ago. if that tells us anything, you want to be careful about drawing too many conclusions for argument. it's hard to say. >> we only have a few seconds
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left. we all know what it is. how do they keep these decisions quiet? >> it's pretty incredible. the history of the court, fewer than a handful of leaks. that means that the clerks and justices not release this kind of tremendous economic consequences for health insurance companies. it's really the type of insider information that if somedy be could figure it out definitively in advance and josh gerstein, great conversation. thank you, guys. today's tweet, the case against the affordable care act, people screen their fear of mandatory broccoli. l show you everything.
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one month to go. let's go down to the wire. the 2012 london olympics begin one month from today. london set up ringses in the tower bridge. big bend may be start to be called big beth. it's been renamed elizabeth's tower in honor of the queen's diamond jubilee. the yankees got a big break in the game against cleveland. they hit a fly ball into the stand and duane wise makes what looks like a good catch but look at that. the fan ended up with the ball. the empire didn't notice and the inning ended. a new study found that those who do more household chores live a happier life. got that guys?
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experts say it could be because they learn the secret of a quiet life or just feel less guilty. scientists have discovered a new species of dinosaurs unveiled in argentina. the birds are 90 million years old. i'm chris jansing. thomas roberts is up next. >> great to have you with us. the agenda in the next hour, the razor thin difference between romney and president obama. which campaign has the most heat? leading the summer, speaking of heat, attorney general eric holder in the hot seat facing a contempt vote. and the waiting game on the supreme court and its health care ruling. how it's going to impact you right away medically and financially. we break it down right after this.
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expenses that could really add up. these kinds of plans could save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs... you'll be able choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. and you never need referrals. so don't wait. with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. this easy-to-understand guide will answer some of your questions, and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. good morning, everyone. i'm thomas roberts.
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two candidates on the attack as our new poll reveals a razor thin margin with neither the president nor his opponent shying away from a huge political fight. president obama will extend his lead over mitt romney as a push for more swing state voters next week as he kicks off his campaign bus tour in ohio. young voters, high interest voters and the all-important swing state voters. mitt romney's message is working with the white voters, men and suburban women. vice president joe ben is about to deliver remarks in the key battle ground state of iowa. we're going to keep an eye on that event taking place where the psident is about to be introduced. let's go to chuck todd. is the headline out of this, the more things change, the more things stay the same?
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>> i think that's fair to say. under the surface, it's like watching a duck. on the surface it seems like everything is the same. go underneath and you see the duck's feet peddling away. parts of the elector that was pro obama have become lead obama. his leads among hispanics went up. for mitt romney, same thing, though. where he was already fairly strong, he's gotten stronger among white independents. it had been more of a 50/50 split. his numbers have gone up. and among other groups that have been strong for him already, his leads have expanded. what you're seeing is a hardening of the base. but i have to tell you, thomas, there's a couple numbers i want to point out. where you see the polarization seeping into the answers to big questions. so, for instance,
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