that's not an issue? we see thousands of our fellow citizens waiting in line for free coverage simply because they have no other option. and yet that's not an issue. and we have more millionaires than any country in the world. yet we rank 50th in life expectancy. that's not an issue? you see repealing progress is the only issue the republicans are worried about. what will they replace it with? speaker boehner? >> we believe there's a better way to make sure they have affordable access to quality health insurance. >> to when you repeal this, what are you going to replace it with? >> i just start pointing out we're going to take a common sense step by step approach. this has to be ripped out by their roots. >> all the people with preexisting conditions, you'll get rid of this and then some time deal with it. >> we believe there's a better way. >> that's easy for you to say.

you have insurance. what about congressman ryan? he's supposed to be a serious guy with serious solutions. what'd he have to say about this? >> to be specific, the provisions aeady in place covering under the age of 26, not placing lifetime limits, they'll go in the house vote. you're not going to vote to replace them? >> we're going to repeal the entire law then advance patient center reforms which address these issues. >> again, no solution. in the states, republican governor may turn away $50 billion in funding leaving more than 9 million people without insurance. turning away money instead of helping their constituents. i thought public officials were elected to serve their constituents. i guess for them that's not an issue. joining me now is congressman jerry nadler from new york and

bob shrum professor at nyu. thank you for being here this evening. >> pleasure to be here. >> congressman, let me start with you. it's estimated the affordable care act will provide insurance to 1 million new yorkers who currently don't have it. what's your reaction to republicans who say this is not an issue? >> well, i'm not surprised, because they have never cared. their calculation has been from the very beginning of this debate that most americans have insurance and they don't care about those who don't. 30 million americans is about 10%. they're assuming that 90% of americans don't care about the 10% of americans. let them die. let them die. 42,000 americans die from lack of health insurance every year. the truth is i don't think people are that callous, number one. and number two, there's a second issue which they don't want to talk about. that is that 55% of all middle class people go bankrupt in this country. go bankrupt because of the

unanticipated sickness. when they get an expensive illness like cancer or heart disease, that doesn't pay that. >> 5 -- that's 55%. >> 75% of the 55% didn't stop them from going bankrupt from medical bills. this bill will say or the affordable care anxiety will say that starting 2014 nobody can be -- no family can be forced to pay more than a certain amount of money out of pocket in any year no matter how expensive the illness is. no more lifetime. no more annual coverage. >> bob, when you deal with the local situation going around the country, let's go to louisiana for a minute. governor bobby jindal said the health care law isn't good for every state. but look at the weird justification he used in trying to explain what he meant. >> look, states are different. founding fathers intended each

state to be a laboratory of experimentation. may not work as well in vermont or other states. what works in massachusetts may not be appropriate to another state. >> you're comparing mardi gras to universal insurance. >> every state is different. >> but aside from the weird ness, the fact is that republican governors including jindal have said that they may opt out implementing the law medicare expansion. it would have a devastating effect on the uninsured. gop governors may turn down $258 billion in federal money leaving 9.2 million americans uninsured. bob, that could be devastating. >> it could be. i think in the end in most places it won't happen. federal government pays 100% the first three years. pays 90% after that of this cost. you have governors like jindal or rick scott in florida who's

the most unpopular governor in the history of the state says he's going to turn down the money. he's already in terrible trouble family room 2014. if he goes ahead with this, it's going to be a big issue in that election. he could well use. there's a republican governor in this year. one of the attorneys general who joined in e in supreme court suit who says look, this is now over. it's time to move on. it's time to make the program work. when you watch jindal, boehner, mcconnell, you understand these people are sputtering. they have nothing to say. they thought the bill was going to get overturned by a politically packed supreme court. it didn't happen. now they're exposed nakedly in terms of what they really want. they want health care cuts for the man -- many and tax cuts for the few. >> there's been support in the

bill this week. went up five points. a significant increase. and even before the supreme court decision. a lot of support. 85% supported covering those with preexisting conditions. 77% support reduced drug costs. adults under 26 staying on their parent's plan. their significant support of the american populous. what do you say about the politics of this in 2012? because republicans want to fight, but the public seems to be on the other side of this. >> well, every poll has shown that the public -- if you ask them do you like this bill, they say no. if you ask about every point in the bill they say yes. for the last couple years, huge amounts of money spent by corporations and others in the right wing like koch brothers lying about the bill. and now that a lot of free

publicity the about the bill, people saying it's not a bad bill. if you get expensively sick, your out of pocket expenses will be limited for the first time. we'll now say to the insurance companies you can't raise your premiums without government approval. we're not going to say you have to spend at least 85% of every premium dollar for paying for services rather than pocketing it i think people will like it when they realize the benefits themselves. >> the gop has a new slogan. you're the strategist here. they're talking about a phrase call patient centered approach. listen to this. >> the kind of policies that will make our health insurance system more what i'll call patient centered and lower cost.

>> it will be a decentralized market based system that's patient centered. >> focus on a future that's premised on patient center care. >> now, david wygel reports this phrase came from republican post who wrote the title the language of health care. i mean, what does this mean? are we just dealing with some slow veneering that will try to seduce the public? what does this mean, bob? >> i don't think the slogan can -- i think people are understanding what's in the bill. and frankly what's patient centered is telling kids they can stay on their policy ls until they're 26 years old. not repealing this bill. telling some woman who's in the middle of chemotherapy for cancer that she's going to get a call from her insurance company and they're going to say sorry,

stop the chemotherapy. we're not going to pay for it anymore. i'd love to have a debate about who's patient centered here. because the republicans have no solution no answer no way toward on this. empty phrases never prevented or cured a disease. >> congressman nadler and bob shrum thank you for your time today. >> thank you. coming up, mitt romney has a huge problem when it comes to health care. and it's called mitt romney. he's caught on the wrong side of the latest gop talking point. plus we'll look at how president obama plans to take on the right wing's big money machine. winning his own re-election is just the first step. and the hollywood ending. major questions tonight in the to cruise-katie holmes breakup. legal questions, questions that

impact the little girl. two of the best lawyers in the country are here. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. [ man ] ever year, sophia and i use the points we earn with our citi thankyou card for a relaxing vacation. ♪ sometimes, we go for a ride in the park. maybe do a little sightseeing. or, get some fresh air. but this summer, we used our thank youpoints to just hang out with a few friends in london. [ male announcer ] the citi thankyou visa card. redeem the points you've earned to travel with no restrictions. rewarding you, every step of the way.

republicans are desperately trying to come up with a new message an health care but mitt romney is having lots of trouble with it. we'll talk about that next.

in the days since the supreme court's ruling on health care, republicans have been trying to make lemonade out of lemons by dreaming up new talking points. the law's individual mandate is a tax. this is the message they're going to try and run with through november. there's one very big problem though. their presidential candidate can't sell that message. mitt romney's spokesman was on earlier in the day agreeing with president obama who says the mandate is a penalty. >> the governor believes that what we put in place in massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the court's ruling that the mandate was a tax. >> he agrees with the president -- but he agrees with the president that it is not and he blooes you shouldn't call the

tax penalty is tax. you should call it a penalty or a fee or a fine? >> that's correct. >> of course the romney campaign has to say this. because his health care law in massachusetts included the same kind of mandate president obama had in the affordable care act. so now republicans are trying to criticize the president and avoid criticizing romney. >> if the obama mandate is a tax on the middle class, isn't the romney mandate aax on the middle class? >> well, i think governor romney will have to speak for himself about what was done in massachusetts. >> and senator marco rubio tried to say the mandate was somehow okay when romney did it but not okay when the president did it. >> this is a guy who supported an individual mandate in massachusetts. isn't that an issue? >> what a big difference. he f you didn't like it in

massachusetts, you could move to another state. >> the truth is president obama's policy is right for america. and the gop's new talking point z is very bad politics for mitt romney. joining me now is neera tanden and ryan grim. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> great to be with you. >> let me start with you neera. republicans have cooked up a new talking point on health care. but the nominee is unqualified to run with it. doesn't this cut their whole agenda? >> you know, i think that for several years now we've seen that the republicans have a big problem when it comes to mitt romney. mitt romney was the architect of the massachusetts health care plan which was the framework after which president obama used

to deliver health care to the nation. it's something mitt romney should be proud of. he's had to spend the last two years running from his record trying to act like he's in line with all these conservatives. it's been a failed strategy. the first thing to happen on thursday was they wanted to use the supreme court to attack the president, call it a tax. the democrats were able to argue soon afterwards if there was a tax, the only person who's implemented a tax so far is mitt romney. >> now, ryan, if you look at the fact that mr. romney in 2006 and 2008 really dealt with this issue himself in terms of being a penalty tax. let me show you what he said. >> for those that have higher incomes, we expect them to have health insurance. if they don't, we'll withhold their tax refund or put in place other penalties.

if people can afford to buy it, either buy the insurance or pay your own way. don't be free riders. >> so ryan, the point is he himself embraced it. how can he sell the talking point given his own background and the videos i have shown that he took the opposite decision. >> when rick santorum said during the primary that mitt romney was the worst republican they could nominate to run this year, that's what he was referring to. you know, bobby jindal famously slipped a couple days ago and accidentally called it obomney care. here i sympathize. you're parsing words. is it a tax or penalty? actually it's a tax penalty.

we're quite familiar with these types of things. if you sell stock in less than a year, then there's a slight capital gains penalty on that rather than keeping it longer than a year. if you withdraw from your 401(k) you pay a penalty on that. in a lot of ways, taxes like these are penalties. if this was the only way john roberts could find himself in the same bench with four liberals, that's what we'll go with. >> let me move to another subject when i have you, neera. the right wing seems to have really gone over the weekend since the vote after the supreme court justice john roberts. when you look at the excerpts of the chief jus roberts decision, look at the a bst news report. john roberts initially sided

with the supreme court justices but later formed an alliance with liberals to uphold the bulk of the law. now, is this part of the whole trying to defame the supreme court justice for voting another way and try to act like there's something going on here? i mean, what is the point of this kind of report as well as the attacks we're seeing now on john roberts from the right? >> you know, i think this is really damaging on two levels. first, it is really outside the mainstream, extraordinary for conservatives, justices to be leaking internal deliberations to a conservative media person. jan crawford a z a good relationship with a conservative. she wrote a book on thomas. now she comes out with reports on where justices are trying to

malign chief justice roberts. i'm very surprised. if liberal judges started leaking out this information, there would be held to pay on the conservative side. i think what is happening here bb they didn't like the decision. and we're tlog run out one of the essential norms of the court. i find it particularly outrageous that someone has observed the court for several years. >> you see everything goes out the window. there's nothing sacred when it comes to their ideology. or the chief justice himself, it's like ideology rules. nothing has to be protected or gadded if it's in the way of your beliefs.

>> it's interesting to see the g of wing of the court just like the gop in congress. it hurt them both times. if the republicans hadn't taken such a hard shot at president obama since day one. before they resorted to reconciliation. and here you have these four my way or the highway republicans in the supreme court who probably could have gotten roberts to throw out the mandate if they would have been willing to leave other parts of the law in place. it clears they wanted the entire law front to back. just deleted. and so he couldn't go that far. so he braces e many up. this sbien time. they're putting all of their eggs in the defeat obama basket this november. and if they don't, you know, it's hard to see much success coming from this.

>> is this thing going to stand? you're hearing rumbles of other lawsuits and in state. is this goijs to stand as a law? >> if republican governors turn down the medicaid expansion, what they would be saying is even though it saves them money because the federal government is providing them a lot of money to cover this population. more than they get now for the current population. they're going to get a 90% chance. what these republican governors would be saying is because of my f ideology, i'm willing to make the people of my state suffer. they're not going to get health insurance because of my ideology. i think they will come in a few days to recognize how that is a strange strategy. their surrounding states will get health care and they won't

take it. and i hope people will finally put partisanship aside and move forward. >> neera tanden and in ryan grim thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. still ahead, republicans are still talking a big game about appeal. but can they really do it? they're banking on corporate cash. but lee saunders has a few things to say about that. also the gop attacks on broccoli have hit a dangerous new level. what's next? asparagus. stay with us. ♪

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folks, the right wing has launched every possible attack on president obama's health care law. they call it a government takeover. they call it socialist. they've even called it european. but when republicans start bashing tofu to make their points, that's when i draw the line. last week louisiana governor bobby jindal said quote, it really raises the question what's next? taxes on people who refuse to eat tofu or refuse to drive a chevy volt? tofu? governor jindal, what's wrong with tofu? it's healthy. it's delicious. it's an all american crop raised

by soy farmers in the bread basket of our nation. i'm outraged republicans are attacking this new staple of the american farmer. but then again, the gop has been criticizing the produce section for awhile now. >> the government could decide that we're going to catch ytax you don't eat broccoli on tuesday. >> believes the federal government can force americans to purchase broccoli. >> a i love broccoli and eat a lot of it, but it's not the government's decision to to eat it. >> republicans have fubny idea about vegetables. awhile back they led a fight to make sure pizza sauce could count as a vegetable in school luncs. i guess for them, this meat lovers pizza counts as a salad. of course, no argument about the

health care laws is ridiculous. republicans can't worry about the merits of the law. so they throw red meat to e the base. and if the right can't live with the law, they've got this guy to deal with. >> we might as well do it now. pull off the band-aid. eat our peas. >> good advice, republicans. do you think we wouldn't supply your daily recommended dose of reality? nice try. but we got you. rolling hot dogs bag of ice anti-freeze wash and dry diesel self-serve fix a flat jumper cables 5% cashback signup for 5% cashback at gas stations through september. it pays to discover. trouble with a car insurance claim. [ voice of dennis ] switch to allstate. their claim service is so good, now it's guaranteed. [ normal voice ] so i can trust 'em. unlike randy. are you in good hands? unlike randy. an intense burning sensation i woke up with this horrible rash on my right side.

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we're back on "politicsnation" with the right wing still reeling from that historic supreme court decision. they're vowing to get rid of president obama's health care law starting next week. with a vote scheduled on july 11th to repeal it. meanwhile tea party groups are planning july fourth rallies and are going back to the old playbook of seeking out members of congress and pressuring them

to overturn the law. the gop is worried this election could be the last chance to defeat the law. if president obama wins re-election and democrats keep their majority in the senate or even take over the house, game over. but the money they're pouring in will be unlike anything we've ever seen. they'll do anything they can to repeal it. but they'll have to go through our next guest. joining me now is lee saunders, the man who will stand up to the republicans' plans to block health care insurance to more than 30 million americans. last month he was elected the first african-american president of the american federation of state country and municipal employees. he also has a new book called the "main street moment" released in june. congratulations. >> thank you, al.

>> let's start with this. what are the chances the gop can repeal this law? >> i think it's zero. enough is enough. i mean, the law was passed by congress. it was signed by the president. it was upheld by the supreme court. it's over. what we've got to start talking about now are jobs, rebuilding our economy, supporting the middle class all over this country. those are the issues that folks care about all over the country. that's what we've got to get back to. >> when you hear the language of repeal and i hear you saying it's over, but they still have the rhetoric. i just want the people to understand in order for them to successfully repeal this law, they'd have to win the white house, maintain control of the house of representatives and gain at least three senate seats. they're going to throw a lot of money. we're going to see money unlike we've ever seen before. but you've said as the new international president of

afscme you'll be out with stronger ground game and resources. they're not going to have a pushover when it comes to the white house fight. >> we'll never be able to match the amount of money that's going to be thrown in by the ultimate conservatives and right wings. we should surpass their chance to organize in our community. organize our progressive allies. organize our base. and that's exactly what we've got to do. we've got to mobilize our folks and educate them about the importance of this election. this election is a big deal. it means a lot to working families and to the middle class across this country. we've got to be involved unlike ever before. not matching the dollars and we'll raise some money and spend some money. but making sure that our communities and our members understand the importance of this election and get out the vote in november. and th's exactly what we're going to do. we're going to get out the vote. >> the importance of it, the

cook political report senate map shows that republicans could pick up those three seats. with three more senate seats they could use a procedural move to eliminate key tart parts of the law. every vote in the critical state really counts. >> we've got to make sure that we keep the senate and we've got to work hard in those targeted areas to keep the senate. we've got to do what we can to possibly flip the house. just as important we've got to re-elect barack obama. he is standing up for working families. he's fighting like never before and we've got to stand shoulder to shoulder to make sure he's re-elected in november. >> we're going to see money like we've never seen before. maybe $2 billion spent by them. and we have the report out today how the president is saying that

we need to raise money. i need to raise money. the daily beast got an audio on friday urging donors to give more quote -- i'm quoting what he said to them on this audio. i'm asking you to meet and exceed what you did in 2008 because we're going to have to deal with these super pacs in a serious way. and if we don't, frankly i think the political scene is going to be changed permanently. the special interests are going to consolidate themselves. they're going to run congress and the white house. that's a little scary, mr. saunders. >> yes, it is. we've got to ask our friends to dig deep and provide the necessary resources so barack obama can win. we've also got to do something else at the state and local government level. we've got to work like never before to make sure that we

elect friendly and worker family friendly legislatures. we've got to elect or re-elect governor who is are worker friendly. in mississipchigan we've got we challenging the law passed by the governor where they can actually displace politicians, displace elected officials and put dictators in to run the state. we're challenging that in michigan and we're going to win that. >> all right. lee saunders, thank you for your time tonight. and again, congratulations on winning the presidency of afscme. >> thank you. coming up, 48 years ago today the civil rights act became the law of the land. we've come a long way, but the fight continues today. and some major legal

questions developing in tom cruise's divorce. who role will scientology play? and what does it mean for the 6-year-old daughter they have? we've got it all covered next. [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense.

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it's a hollywood breakup story that raises serious legal questions. after five and a half years of marriage, tom cruise and katie

holmes are divorcing. a source told e entertainment katie was having problems with his commitment to scientology. katie is asking for sole custody of their 6-year-old daughter suri. and the role religion may play might impact the outcome. a new york paper headline reads "kat trap: katie ny prisoner of tom's scientology." the church of scientology responded saying quote, there is no truth whatsoever to reports that the church of scientology has sent anyone to follow or surveil katie holmes. what role will religion play in the custody of their child? joining me to help answer

questions, catherine crier, a former judge and author of "patriot acts." and lisa bloom. legal analyst. she's also author of "swagger: ten urgent rules for raising boys in an era of failing schools." thank you for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> hey, lisa. >> catherine, let me start with you. legally what role might religion play in this divorce? >> religion is interesting. you wouldn't expect it to play much of a role except when a judge has to decide what is in the best interest of the child. and this is when a lot of the -- you know, the story about scientology would come into play. because if suri was expected to go off to this sort of bizarre boot camp or to get

indoctrinated, the judge has a duty to determine whether or not that would have some role. the issue here -- >> does that infringe our freedom of religion? i know a lot of denominations, a lot of groups that people could consider to be wrong or not within the mainstream but they have the right to practice that religion. >> but if you break it down and say this isn't a question of faith. and they made a ruling about scientology in 1993. this is no long standing -- hubron said it was in the '50s. what is in the best interest of the child? what would she be expected to do if it was a joint custody situation where she was spending a lot of time with tom and this particular organization? forget whether it was a religion. maybe he was wanting to take her

to a summer camp and has her parachuting out of planes at age seven. the judge should say is it in the best interest of the child? we could talk about it under the premature of religion. but the judge isn't going to say is this religion good or bad but is the environment best for the child? >> it's going to be interesting. look at this. rupert murdoch tweeted about this yesterday. his tweet says watch katie holmes and scientology story develop. something creepy maybe even evil about these people. i know.

>> now, but catherine, suppose something that is the practice of that religion, it could be argued to be borderline dangerous. but it is a practice of that religion. isn't that a hard thing for a

judge to have to try to come between? >> that's when you come down to the sole versus joint custody. we hear that's why he wants to get it to l.a. and she california. >> she wants to do new york. >> yes. >> because she had a better opportunity here of being the sole -- >> but unless they agree on joint custody even out in california lisa's got california down, not me. it's my understanding unless they agree then if they're disputing this, it's contentious as the whole scientology issue is, i would be very surprised if a court gave legal or physical custody to a joint relationship. because it is inviting dispute between these two. this the an issue in which there is no agreement. so the court would be inviting trouble to give joint custody. and i would expect in this situation and no one could really challenge the decision if

a judge says all right this is a 7-year-old. you're going to run the show. in wach case she's going to have those decisions about religion. in visitation unless it's dangerous, the judge wouldn't stop tom from taking her to a scientology event. >> lisa, you're in california. what do you have to say about that? and let me raise the same question to you about the judge in religion. where is the line drawn? we went to church five days a week. someone could have argued that was too much for a child and that was over the top. i mean, where do you draw the line? >> well, you have the right to raise your child jewish, signtologist, anything you want as long as it does not harm the child. as long as it's not mental, physical, or sexual abuse of the child. the judge will have to look at all factors. i am licensed to practice law and i do here in california and

in new york. i think katie holmes was smart to file in new york. sole custody means she would physically have suri with her most of the time. but tom cruise would have liberal visitation. every judge in the country wants a father to have continual visitation of the child. >> wherever she is, and i wouldn't be surprise fire department she got it in california. he could necessarily ship her off to some camp or do the kinds of things that he might if he had legal joint custody. not just physical joint custody. but legal joint custody where he has more of a role in those decisions. he might be able to do more of that. i would be very surprised even in california if he ended up with joint custody. >> the big question was tom cruise has been a signtologist for many years. she knew that when she married

him. >> we don't deal with gossip on this show. we deal with the politics of the gospel. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thanks. ahead, 48 years ago today the civil rights act forever changed the country. the dream and the fight for that dream lives on. that's next. [ male announcer ] this is sheldon, whose long dy setting up the news

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back to the news.

i urge every american to join in this effort to bring justice and hope to all our people and to bring peace to our land. >> that was president lyndon johnson 48 years ago today right

before the signed the landmark civil rights act of 1964 into law. it outlawed discrimination on the base of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. it desegregated schools and businesses and helped protect the right to vote. but it wasn't an easyroad. the bill passed only after southern democrats launched a 57-day filibuster on the senate floor to prevent its passage. the bill reaffirmed the american belief in equality for all. but 48 years later the fight for these rights continue. just today the justice department shot down south carolina voter i.d. law for the second time saying the law would make it harder for tens of thousands of minorities to vote. but last week house republicans voted to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt in part because they objected to his

protecting voting rights. >> you won't corporate with legitimate investigation. your department blocked states from implementing attempts to combat voter fraud. you leave me no alternative but to join those who call upon you to resign your office. >> it is easy to get discouraged when you see things like the attorney general being held in contempt. many of us feel unfair when you see the continued fight around voter i.d. but then i remember days like this 48 years ago. a southern president from texas signed a civil rights act that makes me know good can come if we don't surrender to bad. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. when is a tax not a tax? let's play "hardball."

good evening. i'm michael smerconish. what we have here is a failure to communicate. from the moment the supreme court upheld the mandate, republicans say see, president obama raised taxes. but today mitt romney's chief spokesman told our chuck todd, no the mandate is not a tax after all. why would eric fernstrom say that? that means romney raised taxes with his health care plan in massachusetts. this is why rick santorum said romney would be the worst republican to carry the anti-health care reform message into the fall. also we're hearing that chf justice roberts initially planned to strike down the mandate but switched his vote. a look at the inner workers of the supreme court. plus count o