tv NOW With Alex Wagner MSNBC July 9, 2012 12:00pm-1:00pm EDT
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of e-mails from aides on the hill who say we are going to get behind the president, whatever he is proposing today. it will be interesting to see how that part of the debate unfolds. but alex, this will certainly be part of the president's signature message moving forward. he's arguing for tax fairness. he thinks that's a winning argument. also allows him to play off of that narrative he's trying to paint mitt romney as an out-of-touch wealthy businessman. you will hear the president talk about this when he heads to battleground state of iowa tomorrow and then again at the end of the week when he heads to another key battleground state, virginia. alex? >> it's certainly an understatement to say there are not a lot of fans of this proposal in the republican caucus and the house. i want to open this up to our panel with the understanding that i may have to cut you off at any moment when the president comes out to speak. david, we were talking about this in the context of the campaign and certainly friday was not a good day for the white house. this would seem to be a pivot to
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a different talking point all together. the question is whether it's successful, whether the american public accepts okay, you know, the jobs report is one thing, the bush tax cuts are another thing, we should worry equally about them. >> remember, this is a president and campaign operation who feels really good about the fact they won the tax fight in 2008 which is rare for the democratic side. usually democrats are playing a lot of defense on taxes. his whole line of not one dime will i raise taxes for anyone earning over $200,000 or families earning over $250,000 a year, that was a winning message for them in 2008. in 2010, you will recall, they had a compromise. he did not want to extend the tax cuts for the wealthy. the only way he could get these middle class tax cuts extended was to work with the republicans and extend them for the wealthy as well and his party soured on him on the tax debate. they were disappointed in him. this is the memory of a successful argument from 2008 that is coming back here. they are so eager, the white house is, the president is, to have this debate about sort of middle class versus the wealthy.
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>> nick, nicholas, i will call you officially on the set, there is -- a lot of us have gotten guidance from leadership in the house saying president obama is going to extend these for everybody. it comes down to as david said, hardball versus or just reality, and the question is there's been an idea floated out there that perhaps they would let all of these tax cuts expire and then do something retroactively in 2013. what do you make of sort of the path the president may have to walk down which is, you know, using this rhetoric, using this as a campaign message but ultimately going and extending the rates for everybody? how does that play out among the electorate? >> the path is if they call his bluff and say let's do this. i think he's proposing it with the expectation it will go nowhere, it can become a campaign talking point. if they actually get it it becomes more complicated. there is this bloc of people on
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the left who said wait a minute, let them all expire. these tax cuts are ruinous for the economy. >> we have stats on just how much the tax cuts cost. if you extend them for one year, for those making $250,000, households making $250,000 or less, it's $150 billion added to the deficit. it's $850 billion if you extend them for all earners. the question is again, is there going to be a day when these are allowed to expire, when the idea of an impermanent tax cut seems to be political kryptonite? or the idea of ending a tax cut and whatever expires. >> yeah, i think that that's up for grabs. i do think this is a very, very smart pivot, though, off the jobs situation. getting out in front of this issue now is crucial, because we've all heard about this fiscal cliff we're moving towards tend at the end of the and tax cuts are part of that, the fact we have to raise the debt ceiling again. once that conspires, economists say that could shave 1% off of
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growth, if we don't have an extension, if we don't come to consensus about raising the deficit ceiling. i think the president is right to get out in front of it. >> eric, i love asking you about quotes in the "wall street journal" because you have so much in common. today, the editorial page says the dilemma for the white house is calling off next year's tax increase would undercut president obama's theme of redistributing income. his liberal base is so obsessed with the politics of envy that is demanding higher taxes no matter the economic or political costs. we have 30 seconds before the president speaks. any thoughts on that? >> i'm not sure how you get envy of a middle class tax cut. look, the reality is the president can't change the economy. all he can do is change voters' perceptions whether he has a way forward and whether he's in their camp. that's what he's doing. he's saying i have a way forward, i'm in your camp, polls show that a measly 41% of voters think he knows what he's doing when it comes to the economy but that compares to 27% for mitt romney. he's trying to maintain the initiative by showing that he's a man of action, that he's
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taking charge, even if congress won't go along with him. that's all he can do. >> i thought the phraseology that the politics of envy and the liberal base has become so obsessed with it, is an interesting choice of words. the president is certainly going to try and make this more about fairness. kristen welker, we know he's surrounded by folks who will be affected by the possible increase in the tax rate for those making less than $250,000. >> reporter: that's right. the optics of this are going to be key, are going to be a key part of the president's message, and alex, it's interesting, it's sort of a reminder of the built-in strength that the president has in an election year. he can use his bully pulpit for events like this to reach out to certain voters, to make his argument that essentially he is fighting for tax fairness for the middle class. that of course is something mitt romney doesn't have. so president obama using the full power of his bully pulpit to do this and the optics of
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that are going to be key. he will be surrounded by families who he will argue will benefit if this tax break is extended for folks making less than $250,000. by the way, we should also say that later on this afternoon, the president will be speaking to reporters, local reporters from key battleground states. and then his campaign, all throughout this week, will be heading to key battleground states like new hampshire, colorado and nevada, and holding news conferences essentially about this very issue. answering questions about what they will argue is the importance of extending the bush era tax cuts for those making less than $250,000. so the president and his re-election team are really taking full advantage of the president's position. >> you know, i'm reminded, when we talk about a fiscal cliff, the sage words of rahm emanuel, never let a crisis go wasted. here we have the president. let's take a listen to what he
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has to say about the bush era tax cuts. >> thank you. thank you. thank you very much. thank you. everybody have a seat. have a seat. well, good afternoon, everybody. i'm glad things have cooled off a little bit. i know folks were hot. we're here today to talk about taxes, something that everybody obviously cares deeply about, and i've often said that our biggest challenge right now isn't just to reclaim all the jobs that we lost to the recession. it's to reclaim the security that so many middle class americans have lost over the past decade. our core mission as an administration and as a country has to be yes, putting people back to work, but also
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rebuilding an economy where that work pays off. an economy in which everybody can have the confidence that if you work hard, you can get ahead. what's holding us back from meeting these challenges, it's not a lack of plans, it's not a lack of ideas. it is a stalemate in this town, in washington, between two very different views about which direction we should go in as a country. and nowhere is that stalemate more pronounced than on the issue of taxes. many members of the other party believe that prosperity comes from the top down, so that if we spend trillions more on tax cuts for the wealthiest americans, that that will somehow unleash jobs and economic growth. i disagree. i think they're wrong. i believe our prosperity has always come from an economy that's built on a strong and growing middle class, one that
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can afford to buy the products that our businesses sell. a middle class that can own homes and send their kids to college and save enough to retire on. that's why i've cut middle class taxes every year that i've been president. by $3600 for the typical middle class family. let me repeat, since i have been in office, we have cut taxes for the typical middle class family by $3600. i wanted to repeat that because sometimes there's a little misinformation out there, and folks get confused about it. moreover, we've tried it their way. it didn't work. at the beginning of the last decade, congress passed
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trillions of dollars in tax cuts that benefited the wealthiest americans more than anybody else, and we were told that it would lead to more jobs and higher incomes for everybody and that prosperity would start at the top, but then trickle down. and what happened? the wealthy got wealthier, but most americans struggled. instead of creating more jobs, we had the slowest job growth in half a century. instead of widespread prosperity, the typical family saw its income fall and in just a few years, we went from record surpluses under bill clinton to record deficits that we are now still struggling to pay off today. so we don't need more top down economics. we've tried that theory. we've seen what happens. we can't afford to go back to it. we need policies that grow and strengthen the middle class, policies that help create jobs, that make education and training
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more affordable, that encourage businesses to start up and create jobs right here in the united states. so that's why i believe it's time to let the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans, folks like myself, to expire. [ applause ] and by the way, i might feel differently because it's not like i like to pay taxes, i might feel differently if we were still in surplus. but we've got this huge deficit and everybody agrees that we need to do something about these deficits and these debts. so the money we're spending on these tax cuts for the wealthy is a major driver of or deficit, a major contributor to our deficit, costing us $1 trillion over the next decade. by the way, these tax cuts for the wealthiest americans are
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also the tax cuts that are least likely to promote growth. so we can't afford to keep that up. not right now. so i'm not proposing anything radical here. i just believe that anybody making over $250,000 a year should go back to the income tax rates we were paying under bill clinton, back when our economy created nearly 23 million new jobs, the biggest budget surplus in history and plenty of millionaires to boot. and this is not just my opinion. the american people are with me on this. poll after poll shows that's the case. and there are plenty of patriotic and very successful, very wealthy americans who also agree, because they know that by making that kind of contribution, they're making the country as a whole stronger. at the same time, most people
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agree that we should not raise taxes on middle class families or small businesses, not when so many folks are just trying to get by, not when so many folks are still digging themselves out of the hole that was created by this great recession that we had. and at a time when the recovery is still fragile. that's why i'm calling on congress to extend the tax cuts for the 98% of americans who make less than $250,000 for another year. if congress doesn't do this, millions of american families, including these good-looking people behind me, could see their taxes go up by $2200
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starting on january 1st of next year. that would be a big blow to working families, and it would be a drag on the entire economy. now, we can already anticipate, we know what those who are opposed to leting the high end tax cuts expire will say. they'll say that we can't tax job creators, and they'll try to explain how this would be bad for small businesses. let me tell you, folks who create most new jobs in america are america's small business owners, and i've cut taxes for small business owners 18 times since i've been in office. i've also asked congress repeatedly to pass new tax cuts for entrepreneurs who hire new workers and raise their workers' wages, but here's the thing you have to remember.
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the proposal i make today would extend these tax cuts for 97% of all small business owners in america. in other words, 97% of small businesses fall under the $250,000 threshold. so this isn't about taxing job creators. this is about helping job creators. i want to give them relief. i want to give those 97% a sense of permanence. i believe we should be able to come together and get this done. while i disagree on extending tax cuts for the wealthy because we just can't afford them, i recognize that not everybody agrees with me on this. on the other hand, we all say we agree that we should extend the tax cuts for 98% of the american people. everybody says that. the republicans say they don't
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want to raise taxes on the middle class. i don't want to raise taxes on the middle class. so we should all agree to extend the tax cuts for the middle class. let's agree to do what we agree on. right? that's what compromise is all about. let's not hold the vast majority of americans and our entire economy hostage while we debate the merits of another tax cut for the wealthy. we can have that debate. we can have that debate but let's not hold up working on the thing that we already agree on. in many ways, the fate of the tax cut for the wealthiest americans will be decided by the outcome of the next election.
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my opponent will fight to keep them in place. i will fight to end them. but that argument shouldn't threaten you. it shouldn't threaten the 98% of americans who just want to know that their taxes won't go up next year. middle class families and small business owners, they deserve that guarantee. they deserve that certainty. it will be good for the economy and it will be good for you. we should give you that certainty now. we should do it now. it will be good for you, it will be good for the economy as a whole. so my message to congress is this. pass a bill, extending the tax cuts for the middle class. i will sign it tomorrow. pass it next week, i will sign it next week.
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pass it next -- you get the idea. as soon as that gets done, we can continue to have a debate about whether it's a good idea to also extend the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. i'll have one position. the other side will have another. and we'll have that debate and the american people can listen to that debate. and then next year, once the election's over, things have calmed down a little bit, based on what the american people have said and how they have spoken during that election, we'll be in a good position to decide how to reform our entire tax code in a simple way that lowers rates and helps our economy grow and brings down our deficit, because that's something that we're going to have to do for the long term. but right now, our top priority has to be giving middle class families and small businesses the security they deserve.
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you are the ones who are driving this recovery forward. you're the ones who are driving this recovery forward and i think it's time to widen the circle of opportunity and help more americans who work hard to get ahead. it's time that we learn the lessons of our past and lay the foundation for a better future. that's what i'm focused on every day and i hope congress will join me in doing the right thing. thank you very much all for being here. thank you. >> that was president obama making his case to extend the bush tax cuts for the middle class and let those for top earners expire. david chalian, let's talk about what the president just said. i was struck by some of the semantics of this, repeatedly invoking the idea of certainty, give the middle class the certainty they need, we can worry about top earners later,
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this is nothing radical, i was saying this before, i will say it again. house republican leadership echoed that in an e-mail saying the president said this 25 times before. what did you make of it? >> it did feel like we were in a bit of a time warp from the 2010 campaign, where he made a very similar argument. politically, i think you talk to any democrats on the hill, i talked to a senior house democratic aide this morning, they're happy the president's on offense on this. politically this works for him. this policy is not going anywhere now. we know we're about to have an election. there is not actually going to be a bill getting out of congress -- >> he even said i'll sign it next week, next month, you get the idea. >> that's not going to happen. this is as purely a political messaging thing as the health care vote will be in the house later this week. i do want to touch on one thing kristen welker touched on which is democrats have been divided on this. we have seen chuck schumer, nancy pelosi and others call for the line at a million. they are eager to get on board with the president. he has set where this line is, at this $250,000 line and they
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will be fine with it and go out and sell that. the message still works. in their most honest assessment, at least one senior democratic aide told me this morning this would be a lot easier and cleaner if the line was at a million. >> you hear about the division there with schumer and pelosi, their ideas versus that of the president's. why is it democrats can never get on the same page? this is a strategic bid, yet the ducks are not in a row. we know there is not a lot of cross-talk between the white house and congress depending on who you talk to, frigid relations or lukewarm. but that to me seems like not the best coordination, if you will. >> well, the simple answer is wall street, that wall street has representatives in both parties. chuck schumer is the senator of wall street. so where that number goes is very much driven by the incomes of his constituents. it's just really that simple. >> i completely agree with that. i think that's something that's been hard for the president to back pedal from, the tight ties
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with wall street. going to your point about this being smart politically but maybe not having such an economic impact, i actually think there was an important economic message there and that's that gridlock is the main problem. there actually are economic solutions to the problems that we're facing, the structural problems we're facing that we can't get by in. it was important to stress that. >> the other thing that struck me was the president reiterating something that i think nobody really knows or talks about certainly in the broader national dialogue, which is that the president has cut taxes for the middle class multiple times, $3600 a family. he talked about cutting taxes for small business owners 18 times. why is there not sort of like the obama administration tour teeshirt with dates of the tax cuts and people from the administration, from the re-election campaign can be wearing it. >> i'm sure if we look at each of those instances we'll find funny money counting on how many times things happened. but yeah, granted, he has done those things and it's not clear
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why he hasn't talked more about it. i spoke to a donor once who asked the president this very question at a fund-raiser, how come nobody knows this, and the president said it's true, we should talk more about it. he's talking more about it now. >> i would expect you will hear a lot more about that. >> also on a very fundamental level, i'm not sure democrats have ever figured out how to advocate their position on taxation and fiscal policy. fundamentally ever. they just don't know how to do it in a simple way and maybe that's because the conservative message is inherently stronger and clearer, cut them, we hate them, and everybody agrees with that. >> i also think it's hard to get that tax message through when you have 8.2% unemployment. >> that's true, but small business always tends to side with conservatives. i think that that's historically been an issue. small business people are starting to realize a lot of their interests are aligned with the president. i think on health care you will start to see that once people say oh, i'm actually going to get some help here to provide health care to my employees.
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i think the tax issue is getting through, too. i think you see that in the juxtaposition between consumer confidence which is still really low. historically when it's this low an incumbent has no chance but the fact people still think he's doing a better job with the economy than romney would. >> i want to pivot a little bit and talk about how the white house has been using this tax question for campaign purposes beyond just the simple message of fairness, and discuss robert gibbs' comments about mitt romney and his own tax records. let's hear what he had to say this morning on "morning joe." >> the next four years, we're going to have to undergo comprehensive tax reform, and you know, as somebody who has sheltered their income taxes in switzerland and the caymans and bermuda, really somebody who is going to get under the hood and get us to a place of tax fairness, we need to know why he's got that money there. >> gibbs suggesting almost that mitt romney might be doing something illegal. there is no evidence that he's
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done anything illegal, of course, with his money, and putting it in offshore accounts, but david, i wonder, i see this as sort of the battle plan, as the president goes out and talks broadly about the american tax code, the bush tax cuts, his surrogates, robert gibbs, the folks in the trenches, are out there sort of icing that with this narrative that mitt romney doesn't play fair, he's never played fair and there's something dastardly going on in the cayman islands. >> the romney campaign calls this a character attack. it's correct to call it that. this is part of the campaign, this is not about the tax policy debate or about what mitt romney actually did with his money. this is trying to build a frame around mitt romney as somebody who is out touch. the obama campaign claims we are not attacking him for being wealthy but the whole narrative that they're trying to build around him is using his wealth to make it clear that he's out of touch with middle class america and he doesn't understand their lives because they don't have offshore accounts. >> do you think, when we talk
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about the administration or the re-election campaign has been threading a needle on the private equity stuff. i do think, you say cayman islands, offshore accounts, swiss bank accounts, and that is something from a james bond movie. that's something that -- >> his finances are exotic compared to those of middle class people. my tax return which is vanilla, i don't have a mortgage, probably 30 pages long. i have seen mitt romney's tax return. it is dozens and dozens of pages long. >> can you tell us what's in it? >> it has skchedules i have nevr even heard of. i'm sure his finances are similar to those of any other wealthy person who has made money the way he has. but when you just point these things out to your average person, they sound a little exotic. >> i think there's more than optics at play. there's a real issue and the issue is transparency. if he were withholding his medical records, he wouldn't be allowed to get away with that. if you were worried he had heart disease. well, there's a concern he has financial heart disease and we have a right to know that and a right to confirm it for
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ourselves by looking at his financial records. the fact that he thinks we don't says something very significant about his approach to governance and his approach and his character. >> paul krugman makes that point if we're talking about character, the way a man manages his money is a testament to his character, that we should be able to see several years' worth of tax returns, especially given the fact his father was the first person to sort of begin this practice. >> and release a dozen years of returns, where his son has released only one. this is probably the richest man who has ever run for the presidency of the united states and for him to be saying that we should elect him with his finances totally in the dark is a remarkable position for him to be taking. >> and also, part of the reason -- one of the things that qualifies me for being president of the united states is the fact that i have made so much money. i just don't actually want to show you how i have invested it. it is worth noting the romney campaign responded to gibbs' comments, saying the obama
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campaign's latest unfounded character assault on mitt romney is unseemly and disgusting. romney had a successful career in the private sector, pays every dime of taxes he owes, has given generously to charitable organizations. certainly he has given up to 14%, 15% of his income. interesting wording, pays every dime of taxes he owes. >> well, it brings back the point that tax rates on the rich are probably a lot lower than they should be which goes to the buffett rule. that's a whole other can of worms. i think the romney campaign is making a major miscalculation, betting on the fact that americans are aspirational compared to europeans, for example, we're willing to tolerate a lot more inequality if we think we can climb up the ladder but at a time when people feel that that's not the case, that's the wrong -- >> and is not the case. we have the least income mobility of any industrialized nation. >> you guys have brilliantly teased things we will talk about later on in the hour, including whether wealth makes you mean. coming up, white house economic guru gene spurling joins us to talk about the president's
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we will. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. make room for savings with $37 basic installation on martha stewart living and platinum plus carpet. i'm not proposing anything radical here. i just believe that anybody making over $250,000 a year should go back to the income tax rates we were paying under bill clinton. back when our economy created nearly 23 million new jobs, the biggest budget surplus in history and plenty of millionaires to boot. >> that was president obama just moments ago trying to turn the conversation back to the middle class and put republicans in the potentially tough spot of having to defend extending tax cuts for the wealthy. joining us now from the white house is gene spurling, director of the national economic council and assistant to the president for economic policy. great to see you.
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>> thank you for having us. >> so i got to ask you about the timing on this, because we're getting a lot of republican talking points saying this is just political calculus, the president said this 25 if not more -- 25 times or more, that he wanted to extend the rates for middle income earners and let the ones for top earners expire. there were jobs numbers on friday that were not good. can you explain to me why this monday, we are talking about the bush tax cuts? >> this president wakes up every day and his team wakes up every day thinking about how to fight for the middle clashgs how to fight for middle class jobs, how to fight for middle class tax relief. that what's we do all the time here. what the president made clear on today is that extending the tax cuts for people who make under $250,000 was going to be very positive for three reasons. number one, it would provide more certainty and reduce more uncertainty for the 98% of
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americans who most rely on that tax relief. second, it is tax relief to those americans who are most likely to need the money, who are living paycheck by paycheck, who put the money into the economy that will have the strongest impact on our economic recovery and growth. and three, this is a point he made very forcefully, this is an area we can all agree on. we all agree we should be extending tax relief for middle income families making under $250,000. all we're asking the republicans is do not allow our disagreement over whether we should extend tax relief for the most well-off to keep us as a country from providing that certainty of tax relief to the 98% of hard-working americans who might be feeling uncertain about what's to come next year, where we can provide them this certainty right now if we can come together and agree on this and then we'll have a lot of time between now and the election to debate whether you
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should follow the president's path of asking those who are the most well-off to contribute to deficit reduction, or the path of those who believe that we should not raise one penny of tax cut on even people who make over $1 million or $5 million or $10 million and believe that all of the sacrifice for deficit reduction should come on the middle class and seniors. >> speaking of the brackets in terms of earners, what does the president make of nancy pelosi and chuck schumer's plan advocating not to raise the rates on those making $1 million or less? >> well, the president has always believed that the right measure is to be reducing tax cuts on those who make under $250,000. that's 98% of every american. that's 98% of small business owners. that's where he's been. that's what he believes is the right measure, the most fiscally responsible measure. again, everyone agrees that we should be giving tax relief so the president's message to everyone is let's not let those
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areas we disagree on keep us from making progress on giving tax relief next year for the 98% of americans under $250,000, where we all agree they should have their tax cuts extended. that would make a difference of $2200 for middle income families with two children, $2200 may not mean that much to somebody who makes $1 million or $2 million but for somebody living paycheck to paycheck, that does matter. we can provide the certainty that that tax relief will be there no matter what somebody's ultimate preferred preference is for tax relief. >> does the white house worry there appears to be a little bit of daylight between leading democrats in congress and the president on this issue? nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, two very vocal advocates for the party and they have a different plan. why isn't there better coordination? >> i think the overwhelming number of democrats are with the president. i think the overwhelming amount of the public is with the president. they have never believed that we should be letting people who make over $250,000 go scot-free
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when it comes to having fiscally responsible balanced budget agreement. we believe those in the top 1% or 2% should be contributing in some way to a balanced package for deficit reduction to help bring our deficit down in the long term. but we believe we can afford to give tax relief and continued tax relief for the 98% of americans who make under $250,000 and let me make very clear, i believe most democrats agree with that measure. but even if some have a different view, they also agree that we should be giving tax relief for people who make $250,000 and less so the president's saying let's come together now on that which we agree on and provide that certainty to the 98% of americans who are working hard, many going paycheck to paycheck, that their tax relief will be there next year. that's something we can do right now. it's within our power. we know there will be a major
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debate going into this election on whether we should be extending tax cuts for people who average over $1 million, who make over $250,000 in income, and if mr. romney wins, that will probably increase the chances significantly that we will give tax relief to those who make over $250,000. if the president wins, we're not likely to. in fact, there's no way we will. but what we can agree on now is that we should be giving tax relief to families that make under $250,000. we can be providing them that certainty right now before the election. >> gene, i just want to get this last point in before we let you go. the president made a point of noting he has cut taxes for the middle class, cut taxes for small businesses over 18 times. has he done an adequate job selling that to the american public? >> i think the president -- i think the american public is very aware of who has fought for middle class tax relief. i think many americans do
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understand that president obama has given the typical family $3600 in tax relief since he's been president, and i think if you remember last year when we were fighting over the payroll tax cut, i think it was pretty clear to the american public who was fighting to give payroll tax relief to almost all working americans and who was fighting against that, and who ultimately prevailed. it was the president and it has always been the president who has made his fight the fight for middle class families, the ones who are the backbone of our economy, the ones that we rely on for our economic growth and who again, are the ones most in need of this type of tax relief, particularly as we are still fighting to get back the full momentum and strength in this recovery that we want. >> gene spurling, thank you as always for taking the time to speak with us. we will certainly try and lure you back on this program in the coming weeks. >> any time. thank you very much. after the break, does money
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stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. one of the defining issues in this election could be the gap between the rich and poor. in "new york" magazine, lisa miller reports on recent study ths that suggest the wealthy are wired to be selfish. she writes quote, people who yearn to be richer make different promises than those content with their material comfort. no matter how much money you actually have, you are likelier to behave unethically if you check the agree box next to the following statement. in order to be a successful person in this society it is important to make use of every opportunity. joining us now is lisa miller, contributing editor for "new york" magazine who wrote last
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week's cover story which asks does money make you mean. does money make you mean? >> well, there's no definitive answer. we know lots of very nice rich people. we all do. this is just really interesting social science that's exploring for the first time how money and class and status affects human behavior. when you have a lot, how do you behave. so there are psychologies at berkeley and university of minnesota and nyu, other places, that are doing lab experiments to try to test how humans behave and interreact when one of them has a lot more than the other. they don't behave very nicely. >> in the article, you talk about actually sort of monetizing the brain, getting people to think about money, and what that makes them do behaviorally. >> they get incredibly disconnected and start not caring. in one of my favorite experiments, a scientist creates
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a hallway collision between a subject and an experimenter and pencils drop all over the ground, and if you have been primed with money which means you're thinking about money, you don't pick up -- >> if i have been primed with thoughts of a tuna sandwich i might not help someone pick up pencils. i do want to explore the political aspects of that. obviously we have science, we have anecdote, we also have sort of practical reality in terms of policy and there are plenty of wealthy people in congress i believe as of 2010, 47% of congress were millionaires. 37 senate democrats and 30 senate republicans reported an average net worth of more than $1 million but there are plenty of democrats in congress and you could argue that some republicans, too, that make helping the working class a priority. that would seem to strike against or go against the wisdom that the more money you have, the meaner you are. or the less empathetic you are. >> one of the really interesting behavioral economic truisms that fascinates me is the fact it's
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about keeping up with the joneses actually has scientific basis. if your next door neighbor in new york is making $500,000 a year, you could be making 300 and you still feel not so well off. whereas $75,000 may be enough to make you happy in indiana, maybe not so much elsewhere. i think that does have interesting policy ramifications. >> the other issue is when you hang out with the rich, you realize there's always somebody richer than you, even if you're super-rich. the guy who has two helipads on his yacht instead of just one, so you always have that kind of class envy even when you're at the top very pinnacle of society. i think that's a really important point. that sort of ambitiousness around money particularly of getting stuff. you can be ambitious in other ways. you can be ambitious to help people and that produces a lot more happiness than being ambitious around money and acquisition. >> the "new york times" had a piece this weekend discussing who is happier, liberals or conservatives and said liberals see people as victims of
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circumstances and in some cases need government's help, has sort of a less rosy tinted picture of the world. conservatives think hard work and of course help people become successful and tend to skew happier. you can unpack that a variety of different ways. i also thought it was interesting that it says $75,000 is the ideal salary across the country. the beneficial effects of money taper off after that amount. if you make more than 75 grand, you're never really ever going to be happy. you want to hit that sweet spot and there you go. >> there's interesting research that's not in the story about giving away money and how if you give away money, you get happier. so the researchers give you $5 in the morning and if you have given it away, you're happier. if you have kept it you're less happy. >> it all comes back to what they tried to teach us in kindergarten, if you share and play nice with others, you will be better off. >> although the research says in 2006 conservative republicans were 68% more likely than liberal democrats to say they're very happy.
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i guess to each his own. there is an incredible behavioral test in your piece which nick confessore failed with flying colors. self-admittedly. we can't get into that during the show but we will talk about it during the break. lisa miller, thank you. pick up a copy of the story. it is fascinating. after the break, working the system. we'll explain how large companies are bypassing super pacs and still wielding political clout. ovider is diffet but centurylink is committed to being a different kind of communications company by continuing to help you do more and focus on the things that matter to you.
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welcome back. time for "what now." corporations looking to weigh into politics have found an alternative to super pacs, tax exempt groups that do not require them to disclose their name or identity. nick confessore, you have a piece in the "new york times" today. tell us about that. >> well, everyone's heard of
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super pacs. you know, you can raise and spend all the money you want out of a super pac as long as you're independent but they have one big problem. they have to disclose who their donors are. if you are a publicly traded corporation and have shareholders and customers and people who, you know, have their own preferences, it's kind of a bad bet, if you put $50 million into some super pac, everyone will know about it. instead you give to a tax exempt group which is allowed to do some political activity but not full-time political activity, and they run educational ads. they will educate you about barack obama. they will educate you about mitt romney. not campaign ads, educational ads. lots of money is going to flow through these groups in 2012. >> the crossroads i believe is one of those groups that exists as an educational group. >> they're both. >> david, the notion, is there hope for reform after this election cycle? >> this 501-c4 is part of this.
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this doesn't come as a result of citizens united. this has been here. the chamber of commerce has been in this business for a long time. i don't know that we are going to see a big call for campaign finance reform. certainly neither mitt romney nor president obama has sort of said this is going to be a big clarion call for them should they get to the oval office. i do think, though, that democrats who are on the losing side of this money right now are trying to make hay of it. you saw the senate democratic campaign committee today, going to court, trying to file suit to claim that these ads that nick was just describing are not actually educational but are for the sole purpose of electing somebody or having somebody not get elected. >> certainly the effects of money on the congressional races will be very telling and perhaps out of those ashes, something will emerge. we shall see. thanks again to eric, ron and david and nicholas. that is all for us here. see you back here tomorrow at noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. pacific when i am joined by kurt anderson and steve kornacki.
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find us at facebook. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. [ man ] ever year, sophia and i use the points we earn with our citi thankyou card for a relaxing vacation. ♪ sometimes, we go for a ride in the park. maybe do a little sightseeing. or, get some fresh air. but this summer, we used our thank youpoints to just hang out with a few friends in london. [ male announcer ] the citi thankyou visa card. redeem the points you've earned to travel with no restrictions. rewarding you, every step of the way.
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than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue... right now on "andrea mitchell reports," the tax tug-of-war. president obama proposes extending the bush tax cuts for middle income americans. >> it's time to let the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans, folks like myself, to expire. >> republicans, though, call it a tax increase for everyone else. >> what we ought to be doing is extend the current tax rates for another year with a hard requirement to get through comprehensive tax reform one more time. >> offshore bank accounts. the two campaigns are fighting over mitt romney's personal finances.
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>> this wave of attacks against mitt romney are a distraction from the real discussion which is we're in a jobs crisis and we're not talking about jobs. >> release the tax returns. put all this to rest. if mitt romney's not hiding something in bermuda and switzerland, in the caymans, it will be in the tax returns. plus, kofi annan tries once again but is assad listening? pandemonium. four cubs learn what goes up, must come down while breaking in their new playground. how cute is that. good day. i'm andrea mitchell, live in washington today. in our daily fix, president obama tried to change the subject from friday's disappointing jobs report. now he's talking about a middle class tax cut, today calling for a one-year extension of the bush tax breaks for people earning less than $250,000 a year. chris cillizza is an msnbc contributor and managing editor of postpolitics.com. hey, chris, thanks very much. happy monday. let's talk about what the president announced today, what he is proposing.
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no chance he will get a vote on this any time soon. >> look, andrea, this is something that has been in the political dialogue for some time which is the debate over the extension of the bush tax cuts which are set to expire at the end of this year. the debate within the democratic party even is people $250,000 or below or people $1 million or below. there are people within the democratic party, elected officials, chuck schumer is one of them, who believe they should say $1 million and lower, let's extend the tax cuts. $1 million and higher, those people really don't need it and let's not. but you hit on what i think is the most important thing. this is not going to happen before november 6th. this is a political ploy. i don't say that in any pejorative way. this is a political ploy by the president to try to force the republicans on the record again to say you know what, we don't think we want to preserve the tax cuts for people who make $250,000 and above. the white house clearly thinks that's a winner, driving home that barack obama is for the middle class, mitt romney and
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