87 of all of the stamp beneficiaries areithe chdrenseni citens o fid incos,r sinearen ying to rse their children, and our veterans. >> the farm bill links the fats of nuttion asstanc ogra forsuidie the houersi that6 ppt as cut fro s.a.p. this while they've grown at a much faster rate over the past decade than the snap program ha thearm pgrams a sma thinhat wasngtoes. at's ually rece fo rribolic ahis bil is dieren el, could we begin on the terrain here.

wh wou the pgram do for people on snap? >> the house bill has two provisions that would take food away from hungry families. kno howhe schl prram rks. mang severye get sool eakft or lunch. even kids would loose school lunch because by losing their faly'soodigibity, they losit. it wod, tak flebili ay fmgornor it would take flexibility away from governors to help people have a little more money in the bank so they can saveo be nooor a stiet foo stam. alin al iould te $ biion t of t bges of realpeop.

it's nwastfrd, a abe. itorki pents who will go hungry. >> debbie, you've been a beneficiary of s.n.a.p. at various moments andave jt apied ain d wkedith folkwho ve ted tget it. te mehat it h mntith yoin ter o getng bnd goin abo tryg toaise ds. wheised ecei t food stamps, my kids were younger. and to put nutritious food on the table, i needed tha suppmentnd the help ain,y huand out of wor becae heurtmsel not becae heoesn wto wo. weeed thao hel ,agai iave a 13-yr-ol thas handicapped. she needs nutritious food. i have a grandson who's 16 - 18 months old a h les wh us th m dauter o's aingl mo anout nuttiouood e tabl weeedhat suleme. nee tt lp. how mhf a difrencdoes itma? how large in your family budget or incom is the s.n.a.p. -- >> it makes a hugedieren.

itives mhe oortuty to buy e frh frus a vetabls aeats tt i woul't bable . do'dave t d a l mor chear meals and not nutritious, you kn, if i didn't have that supplement. >> i want to -- there's the poli he is carndere' the cuts t iant toay out ts coervave aumen tt's beatheng sam aund is prram. it's grown quite a bit. the congressional budget office estimates that essentially 100% of the growt is due to the efcts the ressio atesave soottemore ficit ofrollg ople ere' ws of dngutomic enromento ppleuali f e befitet the benet. bu thes a growing chorus on the right that this is creating a culture of dependency. 'simil that w sn th conrsatn on lfar re's crlescrouamme

making this point. >> obama administration is going to say bad economic times, people nd food. butoingrom $17 bilon t $76 billn, ce on, someing'in ay. whs . >>e wt w havs an ide licyn whingn wch is liberal liberalism which means the success of government is how many people -- how many people mesepenntn it admistraons. they want to see this american aversion to handing out. peop areoo prd, gue at'she wd yowoul e, toake d. the'snbscety iave toay sitng here u heomeo whoas led a fe wrehe has p foo o her table for her children because of this and you have charles krauthamme mthin o out proamhich ioubt

he's parcipad . bu ere' a ricalxtrest divial ym we he seen i rember the welfare reforms. a right wing congressman in floridaeferngo pr peoe as crodileandheyad to b doneway wi. the'sn an rdian sft poli he. i think we're at a moment where one could see an expansion of possibility for low income people with the health care ll, th t eansi o dica. anif oneuppoedhrou ti-hger adcateood vocas, a robust food policy or we're on the cusp of a rollback where we see a repeal ealtca, sayg no mecaid fds whi hpow inme pple thestes, cutso fo stam,uts llantscuts cu, cuts, for the sake of what?

the additional $10.64 million suidy for t cpora je thesareriories ich e couny ha pmise at diffentimeso ffill a prome thoseho nd hel bad time >>i've jusot tsay, the very conservatives that sunk or economic ship now want to take awayheife eserrs fm theowni. >>ight >> fd stps a a le eserr. thonlyeasowe d'tave maiv staatioto lik ey d i nor korea or somalia or haiti is because the food starps program works. by the way, most ofumbehey citeapped uerresint bu. let'not fort thraceb baing. r th lt0 yrseopl w have opposed struggling low income families getting help from the government, dl lu day e moritof pple

poorthe morit of ople ngrytheajory o pple onood stam,n.a., the majority of people on welfare have bn and are always going to be in t furewhe. i do ieeall strtxecuves at heotte laiff cing apy. thr pre, youkn,t'sard forhemo wal in. i cek trishians -- >> you're talking about people applying for s.n.a.p. >> yes, they're applying for the s.n.a.p. they comen -- you know, ty have-ll the pde i gon caustheyon'tan t ask for asstan, bu the nee it fee the ildr. they hav fou oiveildr, ree chilen, twochdren theyaveewbaby they need the help. and if it's not there, i can't even imagine what would happen. >> how hard is it to apply? u hp them n't ey hav toake a pe ofaperrk thas bier tn pang thencom tax? yes, ablu. >>ndhey payheir income taxes. and they have to show you. >> if they're self-employed that

i do. >> fny ing. >> is a lg oces theyayt'sou to six mth to auall get it. iee filiethateed hp no not ur to x mths ter. th neetno >> thi it's worth noting that we're not talking about a couple million people here. we're tking about 45 million people, which is one insi one sen amerans. ally big,ig morit of peop. anto s that youow, tt unk ameca i loongor handouts or bums not looking for works is really cynical and insulting. >> but it also -- >> a lot of chdren >> aotf kids e otr tng aut thi tt dres m craz ah, you kn, hav see a msive ireas in perty bause wve see a maive decne i incend huge growth in unemployment. i mean i would be perfectly happy if we all got together for policy that put people back to work. buif wreot gng , th ght >> it' tameeoplho we scorngood smps o tnk thnempymenisn'a

probm. ght,righ th's pt ofhe prlem, y ow. it this -- if someone sai to me here'the deal on the table, you know, with oar going to cut food starps but we're reay ingo jcep dict hing >>ere's the ful empymen idea >> tt's e pot. th're tsinghisoney ved pay fefic dun. th're ing it t pay for more corporate aggregate business welfare. >> we're gng to tal about the cropssubsies. we'rgointo te a ick eak forehat. [ female announcer ] with swiffer wet

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i want to bng i sh xby dahert he alseen a foo smp repiento fd a famy aer aerio skig aiden lef him able to worn1997.

seth, it'sreat to have you on. can u tell us how you came to know the.n.a.p.rogramhen lledood stas pernall anhow at kdf chaed ur perecti onthis >> well i 1997 w in a hoendo skig accent a bre bo ofy leg a bh of my ankles and was in a wheelchair almost forbout eight months, and, you know, a thatoint coun'trk. dauteras 1 yrold. bacallput wendy milyn a pitiowher we need feral asstan. >>nd hid that change your perspective? did you have ekoneceid eas fore and afteard viouy you comtted yrs t alinwithnger >> uto tt pnt nev h an sues it ner aected me. truthfully i never thought about it because i wasn't impacted by it. what it does is speaks volumes of the ft y corom a noal hum bei to bng s clostoankrtcy d neeng

th hel froeder assiancen t bnk o an eye. d it c hpen t met ally can happen to anybody. >> one of the other arguments, there'shis depeency armentnd t oths thers aot of fud iit. 's remisce ofwelfe, welfare queen of ronald reagan. the strapping young buck who ught t-bo stk. here rdpa. >> rentlaoman fak t birtof tplet tecei $21,0 in fooamps nee to rembe that millionaires including larry fix who won $2 million are receiving food smps caus he ss he goto inco. so wre pingmillnair. >>f th 4 miloneopl o od amps how man wou y y ar millionaires, joel? >> one.

ok. according to usda -- and this hanot en ctradtedy ev the ipect genal who wa aoint by psidebu. ,1% o fd sta befit are illegally trafficked. 2% of members of the u.s. house of representives have en found guilty of ime. wices mucrime inhe use rreseativ as theris in the fdamps >> is a douestdard thos who tru fl titl anhave gaidhe sysm a so of let off the hook, but it is the case that in this, though, it minds me of t tingraudraudherehey pi, yo kn, thiassi enomon wn, in facthe sh jticeeparent und over t years of voter incidences of fraud. what's also beenost the gradionf our hoiculring i we bac to 74. he tkbout i want telp the po and t huny a not

sacrice em t coca-cola. lyndon johnson giving a war on poverty speech to 80,000 sharing people. undeying this ishe mulave iact t tax o govementsnffirtive forc proding secity for ose o inadimesan n ovidsecuty f theelve and eir famies. d ihinkhesere ongoing debates and disputes that people like rand paul don't really, you know prode mucighodde for chpnes >>ou'vbeenroun the ograand y'veotte pple roll init. u'vesed it yourlf. ha you see- wt is yr anecdotal experience of neend fraud? >> i don't see fraud. i see people that really need it. i me thers ppleuthere at ty hao puthe fd on ttae. an it' t oyayhey can do itometesecau the ve sh hh bis. nt i expensiv you know. all utilities are expensive. that's what they count. rent, u know, utilities.

it's just --t's stazy. theye no makg mone 's n comg . antheyusteed the lp. iustay t rublins e ting e lenlashg ese benets, t th democratic party too often has been soulless and spineless of late. the decrat-conollesena d cu $4illi out ofhe prram. eympli st ohat w aud ste. itakinrealood awa fro re pele. havaembe of wt w cal our food action board where we organize low income people to fight for their own futu. miss sanchez, she's gng to lo $0 amont ahird o r fd befits t fd her aner cldre becsehe natend t hou hegree that mororpote welfa is more important than the economic development of the anti-help and hung tha food stps pride. cheth, thi thers ceain th or t pulatn at hea abo ts debe a tcheit a tnkst's

hard-press t figure that people in america hunge in 2012that it's rea pblem for milons amerans. how you wor wh fol who are th - y do oueacho fos th are may notungry anwork wit fks w are ngry, and how do you explain the fact that this is happening in america in2012? >> well, it isbeuse,ou kn, fit ofll, w heo remberhat,ouknowalf of all eseartipant a chilen. it sury nothehildn at aorki the stem you know? i mean the 1% that is taking advantage of the situation, they're not the kids. we really hav t rembehat lf o tse parcipas a chilen, i worng wh e -- whtherunni the cookg mters claes in inner cities, really teaching children's and fily how to work, shop,cook, and eat on a budget. u kn, i- the laslass i

taht wtomelsee elte theyeurel not t os taki advtagehe situation. for people out there to say it's not happening, they're just detached fromwhat's really going on in o cotry. >> ihink --xcusme. t's gre uff, b twa fromseth >>ou'r rerri tis t dye chetfit >> iie dyed it myself. >> i believe that. nice work. >> this is the jacket i wear when tea theook mters assebecae i tnkt rely bdgeshe g, le themnderand a a rl man beg. adeenhereidn't know where my next meal was coming from and it really helps to make me linch k the >>ou mt --oinghis ow ice ek, i s oftomes do tohe sam thg. 's a dcussn of wheerou belie t gornme's rols ctuay hp sietyo we, do better, help people do

better, help people who need help or to pretend that y wan gornme to ck ondo noing ileeall in theack or helngourrien a budds. yosee ese thisike ts rand paul thing. your mind just wants to explode. >> i'm glad youade tha poin this ibout theole gornme. thgreathin aut thearm billitxpos tha a lot. the rm bl inoohhoul the rket - t governmt is not -- it's who are we goi to help and where's that money going to go. i want to talk about that. i also want toalk about a propal tt a numr oftate haveeenfferg abo restctinwhatou c rcha thrgh t smp ogra thinthat a reay tereing sue. d li t getourakent ght ter is wtakehis eak. ♪

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fad stamp program we've been talking abt thimorng, sentlly the u a deb ca and is cditeonhe counand lks n ut to rcha this at the greery stes a thers bn efforts in a number of states to restregt whr restrict what can beurche and what kinfoodsan b purcsed. eates cesromhe lest rhda orms th is h pposi i ohe flooof the senate. >> i really don't think that it's fair that if you're poor, your kid can't have a birthday cake, he can hav pcak wi aandl o , han't ha aandy can forchrimas. y c b floueg, sugar, milk, voila,ou mix it all together, anboom y ve, esswh, a ke. the wouctuay t guelin tha are alrdy i placor tyc program.

who yo thibout the govementestrtinghatou canr cant purchase? >> think it's a good idea. it should be good nutritious food. the problem is a lot of peoe dot know how to me tse mealor ty d'tave the capaliti se o theven beuse ey d't hehe eltricn, yknowose a ste. so-ut i delie tha it woulenef people to be restricted on what they could buy and should buy. >> you don't think -- that's interestg. yo say you don flike tha that big broerr tt's rerictg yo fedom and ur chce. no. beuse is supsed b ther to pplent itike t wyc program. they give you -- they tell you exactly what you're allowed to buy, you know. i think even they're trying to n sod fm scols. sof toverent ryin

to hp u wh the foo suppment i bieve tha it shou be use f t rig foodfor you cldre becse th's wt you're there for. you want to put nutritious mea theble. >> do u thkhat' a wely he viewmonghose who reive >> no. i tnk - i kw it' no ok, ppleecei fd stamps. they're very diverse. but i think yourob -- your job of tryg to convince people that it's okay to get this program is goi to haer. yen t msaget's ay f usoat this fdn th ble, wch m n -- e y, this suprtedy outaxllar farm subsidies went into this. these were transported over government roads. >> right. >> the truth of the matter i theye to e heahily 80% lowncom peoe ck at homet lea fou timsweek the top food purchased on the

program is a banana. you had great recipe recently fo a cocut ca. i ink da sulde a meti fooikeour conut ca wit lotofream and suga shod b a somime foo dhink lncom peoe shldave mor food stamp allotments so they can afford to buy healthier food, not have their diets miomanedy uncl sa >> it. you ote outroatorm- >>oelnd iarge aee o is. oh,ome that disappointing. >> we largely agree that the food stamp program should be supported. of cours we do disagree on whher od stashoulbe limid inhat ey c buy you ow,ee - i thi s it is rllyherimeampl and deet- i a y, if you're -- if you're allowing people with food stamps to buy soda and, you know as well as i that the fdtamp speing is ntranaren don kw exaly wre thi moneisgoin wdon' kw

wh kin o fds bng boht i genel,veryime u're buyg da, you're subsidizing big food with food stamps and you're increasing our health care issues. so you're incasinurealt care oble. >>rit. so, yes,t's miti,ut the are aeady lims tod star. >>ren'theralso sious issues in communities where you don't have access to low cheese or low cost healthy foods. iean theonin of- ease th iant to g cf sh t waitn . >>he tng that we probably all agree on is there are ways in which food stamps are bng expanded right now, and that includes thingsike heahy llaror wteve it'lled ese this wre- >>ealt buc. >>ealtbuckrigh whe tiesnd stasrencreing vae ofoodtamp that are used at farmers' markets. so it's expanding the ability of

food stamps. if you spend a dolr or get $2 or a dlar or whr. u're eandi . >>o th cret is-o the's reedit uan g a bigger bang for your buck. chef seth, i want you to give us your thought on these effor to rericthat fks areuyin withhetamp proam rig afr weake quicbrea tdd#-80045-20 let'talkboutees. td 1-8-3455. td 1-8-3550 acunt rvicfees td 1-8-345550and e mo dreed fs of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. td 1-8-345550no mthlyccou serc. td 1-8-345550noiddefees

td d# 100-3-255anwe rate ery me beuse en icometo lkin the is fee untii show thethis the w or-b p-heah inic bru. s prflexides adju to eth d gu for bett cle. thnew o-heth clicalrushrom al-b

>>chef th, i aed you before the break what you thought on the interesting purchases with people of s.n.a.p. >> i struggle with that. people who try to mak the decions d te pple who are strglin wit hunrhat ey suld , tyrobay ha ner ft tt fce of hung theelve youkn,nd theyighte havg lober and stkor dinr a th're telling someone who's struggling what to buy. think any food is better than no food and obviously i want people to eat hlthy food

and so t k comnento this ise i edatio yoknow sf y he mon d yo don kw h t cook/shop, then it really makes it difficult to make good decisions based around hunger. that's why i think these cooking matts classes tt i hel teac tt sha sengt hel stard, t s.a.progr nds ese pgram is so portt bauseteally gives these people the knowledge of food and cooking, and it's something that -- it's a life skill that in ourultu has been tak aw, and is she. andour ograis fund b n.a. andouldeut uer the use llf i n miaken >> y, ye i pernall fee have this tremendous great gift of cooking, the most urging persistent question i askysel ery y isow d i tak thi ft thelpthereopl it wld ba rea sme to he th gif tak ay fro m by taki awa the fun. >>owross prodtive. here's a program on so many

levels that's doing good. >> e with all have a certain gift in our life to help and ven ck to peop. mine hpenso b cking a do erythg inyower tory to uhatift. >> also tie dyeing. >> it's almost a backoor imul effe. >>hat' alltimusf ney. almt all govnmen spenng. parculay fo smps beuseood istill grow processed, shipped, warehoused, manufactured in america creating american jobs. one other point. the samehingwe dto fht nger a ectly wt w do t be obesy. th hav a proamhere we ing esh proce fro gionarmsnto l ince neighborhoods. we subcy died it. we have waving lis at bot tes. youake fordle,

siblandavlablow inco wilkeep. neetoncreeheir puhasi pow fncreing food. >> chef. >> the hunger and obesity issue is one in the same. it's gre poi. it theducaon pce. tierighbacko wh i w sayi. yoknowwe he toe ae to givehe pple meri t gi of knong h to shop and cook. >> but i mean people are working ha. i an i-ou know i'm a inedibriviged lky peon rht n iyife and ind melf lik takg a lot of shoruts tha resctnd i hat better than a lot of, a lot of, a lot of folks who have are working their butts o d hahreer fouds. if tt'shat the nd to, at's tou uphibale. i tnk t coong - cookg, o, tnk is rely imrtan itswer addresses a lot of issues. i do want to say one thing about

what seth said to get back t th --o how fd stasan anshou be used aeehat any fd isette thano food bodas not fo and tt's why i sulde restricted from food stamps being used to buy it. it isn't food. it's bad. i hate to belack and whit >>nd i n yor sta alied for aaive tha - sugsodaot dt soda, which could be worse for you. >> this is kind of a prelit call conversation in a sense because we're not ting int aount enormsobbiehinhe sodandusy an we' goio lk aut t agbusiss. if you had a lock lobby, anti-hunger lobby, you'd see sothing different. they're not treated with respect capol hl a you deribe thon't he a ct.

roa srms said she had coca-cola in her office the next day. they have fought strenuously and loied ains a aempt t rerictoodrchas. wee gngo talbout b od a b agculte. efethixby dauerty of share our strength, thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having me >> debbi pacioshank y r cing. tha you for hing me >> othe her se ofhe fm billicubsies f big agriltur invacaon. ♪ agriculture. subsidies for big agriculture. maybe do a little sightseeing or,et se frh ai but is smer, we ud outhanyoupnts jushangut wita fefries inondo [ male announcer ] the citi thankyou visa card. redeem the points you've earned to travel with no restrictions.

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f weook e nian aima anreimined near evethinin i gave it greater horsepower and best in class 38 mpg highway.. ...adnceheadlights... ...and zero gravity seats? yeahthatoulde co. ♪ irodung t cometel reigineniss alta. it'sur mt invati alti eve nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ > a fmill passed by the house agricultural committee this weekend not only cuts food, refos that werenclud i the nate farll. e hoeill leheenat bi wld feee eirec sh pmenttofarm 26 of ich ceiv me tha $ miion eacastear alone.

and the savings from ending direct ch payments could have prevented the food stamp cuts that we have talked about. stea hower, touse coitte aeed funl 70 ofhose savgs fm dirting th to od ch paents they pay farms. agricultures chairmanrank luca autr o touse far ll dende usi theavin subdizefas. >> it is to make a living as a farmer. i usually check the weather every day, usually multiple tis a day because inow a mome's note a drerop n tu int adister >> jningsowt table . jowillms, fouer of w polical counseling firm and co-host of the political radio show. glado he you here >> tnk yo >>he fm bil t mxpos

thundantal mperction abouour polics. ene're i a eleion seon, at hapns iis. it's particularly true from nservatives. they want to make the election and every employ call conversation about first principl, about ideogy, abousion weelie ifreem,ess vernnt. u wa morgornme. d i tnk setim libals get skerento hinghis verydeological battle, right? we have to defend. if you lk at what congress does, if you look at government under george bush and replica coresscongss a gd gr. the is nvidee tha repuicanunde theoverent ll shnk. it a queion whahey willo aho wilnefi thfarm bil is perfect example. here you have e house republicans on the same day, on the same day that they vote to repeal the affordablare act e cing up wh new pce ppor pgram whi soun, frany, sovtnd sub dieded crop insurance for farmers that are -- when we say farmers,

largely massive agriculral teres anindurialfas. l the iolog somow jt sapprs io theithe whe the actllyoverents rkin i thk it imptantor peop to lo, stair into the gape i ga pingall. is t a btle beten se ideogy o les govnmennd me iolog of mor gornme. enof rt it's pri exale of pay tentn tohat i doi here, this magic trick here, and not what i'm doing, you know, over here, you know. and so it's the -- the -- they're trying to get the amicaneoplto flowhat msang, at,ou ow, nt y toelies opped wha i doin anmost amecans an't goi reathe xt of far ll. ey'rnot ing toead the text of the affordable care. they're believing the sound bites and what happens on news and what they read as opposed to okinandhey n'tave timeyou know to loohrou a fmilnd see ts i contdicty tohathey are

teing yo >>nd the fm bil i a peect amplofhe kdf gislion at a small group of people pay very intensely -- >> if you stair -- >> you c't undetand yo canossiy pse . >>f y sta io the gaping mau of the farm bill,ven those who attack ave aepted it. wastheaseith osevt. th was- thbigebatbout the le ogovement w sti to me, eve wit joson. t th is an iense fght over battle partly not be reductionist because you've got a lot of money going on. the campaign spending and the money the bo made and t row sine. want toring ieorg naylor. i gave a paid speech to them back in 2010 prioroominon

ll te he at nbc. orgeit'sondeul t hav u. wh do u thk ofhisarm bill >> iellouhis farils e in a lg sies sce the early '50s that were aim at destroyi the n deal. ift's dissseds welfe, bodyill undstanwhathe igin farm bls i t n dealereeally all abou >>xplahe difrencnd exain why the current way that we conceive of farm support doesn't work. >> well, yousee, as you were taing out foo stam, 're not ing tlimite povty withood stps. if peoe wer giv a minum wage that was a living wage and people were guaranteed aecent job, you wouldn't have to have -- y wouldt heo he food ampsnd t sam way witharmprogms. fmersereuaraeed tualricenherketace,

mimum pric good price, and were given the tools to control supp so tha the big rporionshat y ou prodts wld he to payt thatind pric you woun't ha toave ssidy paymts. but i't- b d't we- dot weaverice- i mn m undetandg ishere are price supports for a variety of the big five commodities. >> no, there have not -- you're confing e te rice suppt" wh ncom suppt." ght. >> iomeuppos le weare ymen a ssidy paymt, wre, fact, what the new original -- the new deal farm programs did was guarantee farmers a fair price just le a minim or aivin wagould guartee faige. ght. so tt's a kistition hererigh >> ght. >> a oed t sin you could sell a bushel of wheat for "x" price and guaranteeing that price. our support system say if it's

lesshan$4f iselli r $3 ihe on maet, we thgovementay you t llariffent, ght? th's t wayncom suprt wos, right? >> that's an income support when the government pays me from the treasury. this is not about -- it suld t b aissu abo t deragornme. it has notng doith the fedel buet. what weaves anoer pgram aonginefrogrsince the ear '50s. it produces cheap processed food cheme,milk and eg, an so tt tres no acal we u of our nd. solet' tk abo tha and ta abo wha is in the bill and who's backing it and who is benefiting right after we take a break. femae anunce] wih swfer ster

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ishat ey -- the bigger the enterprise, the more money it gets from the feral government. so here's an example of how this wos. weave gphicerehat showunde the ltubsi gime youe -- if the hoehol comes abo$20000, your average in subsidies is $30,000. the people w ghe lst ountf helre tse makg let amnt o moy. tre anying i wh's ing neowith t endf dict pment stchi to thisrop surae mel thas going to change the way the distribution of benefits works such that big interests get t biggest paents >> wl, ioture the are gog t be aig benit fr thi farprram. i ink thiasicly farrs e gog to b on t fre rket thisarm ll's not going to let the whole farm economy crash even if it's a crazying a g

business far ecomy, wheverou'rprelktg the isntend toakeure e syem rks. itsn'tntendo mak big farms ormallarme or a other kind of farmer stay in business. it's just intended to make the system perpetuate cheap food, chprn cheoybes so theyan kp feeng anilsn inmane fee lots cpora feedots and bring our food from allover the world and thousands of miles away and have everybody keep looking at this issue of welrewh, in fa, we suld askg what haeninto t comns, wh's happing thearmld. yocomeut he toio, you ll s nhing b mo crop, corn, soybeans, soil erosion that you wouldability believe and me and more use of pesticesecau if youe onlyoingoaise trops er a oveagai y're gog toave iredie prlemsith ptsome thi ogra dsn't - thi far

billor af the far bills since 1953 have addressed any of these issues. and we have -- you have to understand we have a congress of the 1% so d't expt athino addrs an of tse issu. ths a bartin picyn belf o corrate agribusiness. >> mark, this is something you've written about a lot. >> hear, hear. i spent a wk in ia lt ar. d the moultu ihe ing tt'silli undhe thg thaseing mos hvily bsided. cou i interject there? >> please, plse. >> that's an error to think that farmers raiseornnd sbean to bside. the's oth cro can ink tt ianhinkf to rae toompe wit corn and soeansust causif i w to raise fruits and vegetables, i would have to have a big labor force of immigrant labor. coun't rse enoh fits

andegetles self no wa and e mket eare to ttin fits and vetabs fromiantarmsn liia, texas, florida, and now mexico and china. >> so wait. you're saying -- i want to be clear here. the relnce mocultes a raisg varack of wha c be sd i cmodity markets, you're saying that's going to happen bufs the farm bill or not. that's not just because of t bevioreingistoed b whever subdiesre ther >>s. th rl sndltertiveo raing cnndoybes wld toavehay, stur a sml gras in a crop rotation where the livestock are being raised on family farms instead of great big inhune gnt ctorfarm bigfelotsow owneand conolle byhe very big pacng comnieshatre putting lousy meet and unsafe

meat on the market. >> geoe naylor, corn and ybea farr fm wa. 're ing hav you bac a llowt ahe whrou srajeory i i floda vo. than so ch. we'lhaveou ke. thaouery much the one and onl james carville will be with us when we come back. ♪ ♪ i wt too ♪ i want to win [ breathes deeply ] ♪ this is where the dream begins ♪ ♪ iant gro ♪ wanto t ♪ i c almt toh thsky [ ma annncer evenhe pnet s anlymp dre. w isroud suprt tt drm by helping provide greener, more sustainable solutions from the olympic village to the stadium. solutionism. the new oimis™ ♪ thidrea

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> go mning fm nework. m chs has. heith "foomaers" katrina vanden heuvel. and joining us is james rvil. co-ahor "it'he mide clas upid youant t kwow bad thin gotor mitmney las nit he decided to give interviews to abc, cbs, nbc, and fox news.

itamerom ns aut h derturfrom bn catal. preousays w socumt afrocumt ergehere i oweditt mney raineat in cital beyond 2002 rather than february. plus, democratsammed rney all ekver hisailu to lee mortlan jtwo yearof tturn despi eve som replica ader sugstinthate nee to reasemore, iludi a "wall street journal" editorial page editor on that program last week, romney last night announced he has decided that unlirevisresintia candatesf thast few dedes,eill relse oy thtwo ars retns. >> i'velrea p one yr tax returns. we'll put out the next year of tax returns as soon as the accountants have that ready, and that's what we're goi to t ou i kn the wilalwa be lls r re. pele aays nt t g mo, an you ow,e're pting out at i reqredlus mor tt is nreired

the arthewo yrshat pele a going to have. that's all that's necessary for people to understand something about my finances. >> mitt mney playing defse ontas, bn catal tsouing,nd his bk acunts repuicanare uing him to ght cknd plee his supporters. in old romney quotation, if you're responding, you're losing. while he pla to spend the weend newampsre wh s fami, pside oba wil contue t hmeromne on extly whe he lefain capil. jas, n at gd week for the romney campaign. >> no, it wasn't, but let me tell you something. john mccain saw 23 years of thostax rurnsndt fced hi to pk sah pin so, maybwe d't wt t lk at it >> he w quod in08. the arizona republic asked for it and he said because i'm a pack rat, i happen to have them. we know they'reitti

mewhe. ise gog toet ayith it? that my g queson. thetheroint ishe sgle st disgenusd wasun by mi romy athe binni of the campaign. you'll remember this. said if this election is about the economy, we lose. whatectuay sain008- jo main he id jn cain saif thi i abohe onom we se. take tha t. en t romy peoeragg that it showed how tough they were that they were willing to tell a lie, we're willing to get away with it and there's nothing u can do about it. iiked it i thk itasevin phlips theolital sategt w sa the replicaoor the jugur, t docraoor e cap lairs. we're seeing the democrats go for the jugular a ferociously early to find. >> speaking of the jugur, c i plth? th is defitel-- i tnk thount as a gula is w adhatustas releed tay b thebama campgn. eck out

♪ o beautiful for spatial ski "first lk" forver wav o grain snosz forurpl motain majty ove t frued pla ♪ ♪ america america god shed his grace on thee ♪ ♪ and cwn t goo wh brherhd ♪ >> soere' at. what do you think of that? you like it? >> yeah, i love it. i do. the thing is finally we're getting in early, y ow, and lettg, yow, sting thi sortf ing. i ree. eeaso it's working is it's by and large true. >> by and large is great modifier in politics. >> you could argue - has me pt oainetwe '9

and 02,ll rit? i'just sang. whyoest matter if i have that question, others do. >> no. it's great question. >> we talked about this befo. it doesn mterytsel tha won lea t retus. mters t us itoesn mtero ters at comned th was h- d heave han o notnane when they were outsourcing, it goes to his credibility on if he's lying or if h can be trusted, you knowll othos thgs. en y puthat whhe ad toyhere he' lyi t yr eati or dng someing, th's wtat toters >> i i could be an annoying buzz kill liral, i'm n cing ts tead with iss why ion'tun mpais, b- >> let's do something first.

let's put the united states first. >>, no, i don't think it's a go id. >>ut wait t mnswerk's queion becae ihinghis isctuay wh's bizre aut the cef is. ay in cital rs -- purchases a called gst steel. that's in kansas, okay? >> right. >> they end up clong down that facty d shipping most ofhe jo, belie, thina aund 2001 2002 ay . he oba cpaign relees an adittiitt mneyor at a theomneresponse is i had nothing -- you can't hit me for gst steel because i left bain in 1999. then w get tisclure fos th heigne withe s.c. sing heas tole arehder a ecuti ficeofain pitain 20 an 2001. these are filed with the government. he said, yes, i was, but in name only. but the whole point -- what's bizarre out this is t seem to beoing thrgh aotf worknd bding erbaward to oid ing assiatewith ts one instce,hich is gst

stee whi w theubje of ead, whi the thicks that bain was doingefore 199 -- >> the whole nature of bain was abouinstininompaes that offsred bs, d ihink th -- le b enore of an -ion'tknow agadf. t's honest. over the last 30, 40 years, the wages of the middle class workers in this country have stagted. ructal ason i surised i'mot weang at-irt. >> ts isomen wree c ret th priorities of the bipartisan class that has witness trade agreements that have contributed to moving jobs offsre. w, pvate eity ishe lies eodiyt ohat and tt rneys the elem of that but t's ke aomentorese eriories thi couny. no aricairst necessarily, but let's build a secure middle class and workers and workers'

rights and livingages. >> no, no. it wor tha th. roey p bai a ise. heaidheatiole -he tireatioyail >> h cldn'talkbout bng the vern of massachusetts. he never speaks of that. that never happened. it's like some terrible dream. >> he deleted it from his fabook page. >> t rean he wan t b priden i h w thi succsfulce tt cated ese hdredhousdbs. people said, wait a minute. you want to talk about the job use eated, les talk about e whole piure. tt rney o dsn't gble was tolahe slo mhine but oesn wtocoun th he sst infaio question me on the very centrality of my ration aleor esidt an the h win abt it that t ct it'so the went ond pied u se anclarying.

>> it's the heart of who he is. >> the in fact he's demanding an apology iseally pathetic, right? >>ch, th ihehole root thwholthin you rn yrise, y're ne. hers th romy cpaigd fendg thbanereco, basically hitting the obama campaign for not telling the truth and then he had this apology request he had in his inteiewsast ght. take look >> wn a predent dsn'tell the uth,ow c w tru him to le? the ama ouourcg atcks, sleang, unfair, and untrue. there's no evidence that mitt romney shipped jobs ovseas. candidateobamliedbout llar clton. obams diones campgn, another reason america has lost confidence in barack obama sneer's what i saw, some conservatives on twitter tha were saying this is so lame. th's wt docra .

mocrs whp ansk for apolies. at t hecis goi on. do y thi the sor opolo gait iworth anhing we,t'sot worth very much because everybody believes that mitt romney shipped jobs overseas for the simple reason, that well mt roeyhipp bs erse. lturly t oba camign cong aoss the repuican eyandhey n't lik at. theye useto le goi oundndickieople and getting a u way with it. now they're getting kick. now i've got go back to what i said. the single most injenns frdule ad >>hat'eall sayg a lo >>ell,ook at. lookt . mean the ad w- cansk you a qution e the anboundaries? as someone who has made ads, been a strategist for a number of years and a very successfu on is a is fr in polics? en y say it'singuous do it matr al? >> i tnktes,utou hav be immiaten yr rpons and u havo berutal in

your response. i mean as soon as you're hit, you have to hit right back and you have to hit very hd as to whathey' ing. but youet t thi go th did for two or teeeeks wh allheepubcansere yingy, you connuedo thisecau t docraou , oh -- when dukakis ran, oh, no one would ever believe that. oh, yeah, they would. john kerry, what was wrong with the guy gngutnd sayg - >> cldust s hat - partf at's gngoefin thislectnn aitio to vor impssio and sup pac moneis theedia andhis falsequivalence. you're seeing a little bit of obama's swift voting mitt romney. no, he's not. this idea of- thoseere de concted es. thiss a funment par of mi romy's fe, bai capil. defid hi as y wersang, thi i wha 's running . >> this is what he's running on. >> the other thing is the tax returns. the tax rues, thg, ihe

esn'le doest leasose,hat' t gog away heels them is eld day never seen before before by opposition researchers. >> joy. >> let's fast forward this to october when youlaveitt romn andresint oma o the me rm onhe se ste a deba, rit? talkbouthe demratsort ofippi it deing republicans. if president obama goes directly before mitt romney on these issu on the sge ifronof oplen a batehathang as well uslly lt i t demrats whobvioly d't g tt stng ithe deba. buobamoingtron aft mittomneinebate in october, a month before the elections, it will come up again. >> yeah. there's also the idea of a dision of labor in tms o gati attas. let'remeer sft vers for uth,t w run inpendtly. th wileorto was r independently.

ed rendell said something pretty provocative on ourir yterd abouthisossiy huing e pridens bran i wa to ayhat d geyour acti rig aft thi won'need. ♪ haji. u guys like football ? thank you so much. i'm stoked. u stoked ? totally. ... d he says, "under the mate. ( ught ) y's e neguy ndinme ailsrom ris ris,ranc? rizos 4gte dicesare obaleady plus, global data for just $25. only from verizo mine hurt more! minetopp hurting ster. [ fele aounc ] nepori®lus in rief tartreliing in fter d kis mo typ ofnfecous cter. ospon® plupainelie for two llaroupo visinerin.m. ospon® plupainelie this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first ade route to the west, thgreast eires en, me sd, weost r ed.

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>> i think he also made a vy good point about all thisttac y beurtihe predent brd ltleito. likehinkur suprter wen a lite boo far wit the lony buness >> forrennsvani govnor ed rdell on alex wagner's program yesterday talking about stephanie cutter who's spespeonor the oba caaignadmpli o suggted at , in fa, he wasyingnormshat wou b feny. thk artulatn isometng fee you semocts da t. wh do you think about that. >> look. i don't know. better if stephanie would have said if a court of law, you know, after d pcess a

otecon olaw ahe peal hav rtsours- >>hatoulde aypic decrat -- >> no. maybe if she would have said it differently, it would have been tter. who cas. in theteam of thgs it i't tomu. >> havmore of proemnow. everne h mov so i n re wt th s wn the sa it. presen cnton and cor book and one or two other, cory booker said the attacks on bain were nauseating and he compar it to the deo. thinthesttacn bai e fuy aart theebat abt wh kin oount wre gointo be capalis -- >> i cplety agrut i was fascinated by the moment. it's very clear the bain attacks, they're seeing and polling anfocus grouping that they're effeive,hat there fecte pticurly swi at stes, plas th havgone throh thndusialition and ve bn hi har o the

manucturing side. at the same time, it's notike a republican business private equi, let me tell yo privequit -- ere' aon ofmocrs. geortephopousent- petrsza >>ons ofople my question is would the democratic donor classolerate this? yoknow those folks. what are they sayi? yoknow ahey calngp e whe hoe an sayg iow fe i havo dendy indury? atsome buome undstanhat tha ppen and, again, mitt romney never -- i go back to the central point. he put this whole thing at issue. he was t onehat idhe whe r he w rningas ov ba. wh you roresidt, thrg y do gs quesoned whene ran '92, memb, w were rubbing drugs out of the airport, for god's sake. >> i had forgotten that one. that was a bthing. >>the ll seet urna for yearaid w kled- com

, y can be rprid th ifou r fresintnd you put methg a t cter thit, rearcrs a gng to come in and say, wait a minute, there's another story to tell here. what are we talking about? this is the mos legimat thinthat gng on inhe campgn. butou thi -- wheer it' myoint mor iheth is legimater no ty'reoing to hammer on this. at the same time, let's remember. they're going to hammer on this mr. 1% that's got offsho t accots, id 13 uncaied intest, ofhorejobs t seime the predent isoingo ha t go furais aft funrais ter fd-raerh people who have offshore klts, mr. 1%. offshore jobs and wked in private equy andow i tt suainae? >>e' eehe's gng t ske hannd sai hr you ao to the cellhonend say dbler buy. they went to the hamptons party.

that was outfhe ion. >> tt w n out of e onn. th was leonatn ift. re's queson. whyn 22 whe candateho t emblem of private equity, some of thats what you're lkinabout becae, of cour, t strturassuein th coury butt is a fac i e 1970s the demrati par became linked into this money-raising system where you got private equity givers and that's what thisartyeeds breahrou ifhey'oing to bsmt. i tnk t conrsatn i dieren it'sot jt tk aut mt roey bng wethy. everody knows they're wethy. most voters know even the elected official in their state is more wealthy thanhey are. they kno tha alrey. e qutions tarrave at mt roey bngs in

ying a youeat,ou ow, eousing- yo ow, areou payg yo fair share of taxes. that's the conversation, not about them being wealthy per se but what benits ey s f nolayi by theules lik i ve tas mdlelassr a workgpeon. to whas soasciting abouthe x returns we receive and what is in those tax returns, when you're operating at that level of income, that's a whole other univse. for america to looknto wt thatan, at a tetur o thindf ince lks le ust alieting >> thersotf likeall grea amecansn prate equi. 's athing. it is a legal entity. it does things. >> it does things sniet does things. it ds gothgs. itoes bad thgs. en y run forresint a yoput it at tentrityf at yar tnou'r gng b questioned about it. that's -- >> and your book talks about the

agency of change, theligh the elit, t radaliz ofhepper mdle ass. i wourguehat u nd thosin t statike a pet peteon. i'veent himn e-il a few weekago and say, hey, where do you stand on carried interest? you need people in private uityo sttightgor t lohole to parf t 10. >>quicy, criedntert i esseiallinvementncom deareds investment rather than wages. so it's 15% rather than what you would pay at the top marnal ra. th's yr tax rdins. moren th top whewe ce ba. fema annncer whenkin ets ddes.. romae haens. nfidce hpens ♪ when skin meets goddess, anything can happen. introducing venus & olay, a match de iskineave ay msturbars leasskinondioner toelp ck imoisre anboosyourhave whilfivelade gevenuclos

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>>ce. sohis i wh's ppeng. we reivehis plaut bere. a candate h bad ek, okay? and you see -- start to see the panic button, the freakout from theolks o tt ndide's side so he's "e neyorkimes consvatisush f romy t liveaunteunch wchs thlass "pelerereakg out "articles. team ab is doing just what we did in 2004, whi is to dine the opposition fious a rly mosoter d't he deep sen o rneyther th he's n obam anin ts cycl tt maye enouing t iseryisky apoach that's mark mckinnon, former. this is james offin som ough onhat the predent oulde dog. weostll teats i 94. lotf usotfire iot- i dn't he a coulti conact th t dn people -- he mad changes. that's what happens.

that's what presint reagan did in 1980 when he didt stt ou whil he fedes. he tsed t lioln. chlkumsfd lo hisjo epubcans fir newt gingrich. when things are not going well, the coach, the manager, we're orts fans yove g tory t d someing,hangdireion re. i'mot gng t to tak it a a psona oense tt u wo auit a torhat -- yow, is saturday morning. >> i d't see himn sui and e. i n't e he i dom shim. thearge covagef liti is ke mday mning quterbking andackst dring dike somneho has been in both roles, had to run an actual campaign where you had access to a certain amount of dataand ing o t outse coenti, ishatike all s.? thaeap,al adve y

t, t htriocs opeop yingo th, dat,oes it matter at all? >> first of all, the people running the campaign can't stand people like me, and i couldt stanthem >> i want layhis vy ick. just toesblis this you 19 talng aut th. >>ight >> tyon't kwbout sttegy >>hat - >>ou'r asking me -- again, i'm saying tv mcoentars d the st ty ca you' havto a the mmentors >> bstli wit contempt for the tv commentators. >> that's aact of life. as stalin said, if y'r afrd bes, d't go inhe wds. youe afid tbe a litilnsulnt,on't run caaign peop likeno ty're oplen theeanu gallery, throwing stuff, whatever. >> then, again, like you mentioned, you don't have the tv

ndit we'r nnhe campgn, w dot ha accso the dalg mpai, th dal lls, t tern this aon'tnow e fu outtraty i terms of what's next, right? so part of this is not only don't you have the tv pundits but youon'tave accs- if you erorkeon a campgn a y're a fld ornize eveone the dr s adceor y. evy vontee knos wh t campgn suld ing. >> katrina asked something before. i'm a complete amateur. i'm going to be like you. thas ne. theallsrenead hea so y'reightgve f th ectore oometng le at. w wh's car isou he ama tryg todentyomne as a creep, which -- fair. when does he start talking about program, when does he start taingbouthat the -what ing appe i he's re-ected wheno w sta tee ts

ange stu aga? when do we start to see an explanation of why things have not gone as we hoped in the last four years. >>et me take that in a cple -- >>fferomevice >> oer se adce f the campgn. whatheye gng t h romn on sur as i'm sting re, rney won relee h x rerns. >> right. >> romney says he's a guy with a $7 trillion tax cut but he says, i'm not going toell u ho m gog toay f it. heays i'moing to cut vernnt pgram but ion't tellouhich one i'm goio cut caus i id, i wou be vy hd onople mneyays he position on immigration, but i'm not going to tell you what it is. >> right. >> so phase twofhis i goi toe mi romy. he pysyneet orule the st ous pyy ffert se that mitromn allf hi life. sure as we're sting aet this table, you know this is coming. >> yeah. >> now, what the president -- what we know frohe plic

pos ani kno ts fm privepoll yruestn goesoheeart ofhemaer. theyantnowhathe secd rm iout. allhatomnealks abo i thlastour years. people know where they are. i think you're going to see the president not now because right now he's downthe,oukn, an tirppont i owni. easethroimnvil. my god, d't swch. at a point i promise you they're going to say this is how my second -- this i my second term. i think it's going to be -- you ow, can fltming i e tpeecsnd everhingherehe mdle clasis gngoeront and cent the sond term we gng ttart t pross o ildi theight mide cls. your question is germane, it's right, but now is not the time to do it. >> but, you know,ampaigns don't necessarily pusthe mits o tonveatioof e deba. akesovemtsoutse,nd iust nt tut i aord for 's i --ou know it' gng toe yea ts september

since it's erupted. movement time may not be how we measure time, but it certainly drove issues and ideas into thi campgn, ich 're eing flrishrounthe in dete, whh is aut ineqlity whi is aut the 99 and al, you know i tnk i terms of the elections are choices, that's what this campaign of president obama was. heantso me i a chce. do tnk 'soing to sak t. the wasn aicle the oer day cticing the camigns fo religati thepa. i ink e pside suld relitigate the past because the past involves a failure of right ng ideas about what kind of economy,ou kw, theower xesnhech, derulatg marks, a the tngs tt ovehecono o clf, so thi the is re to religatehe pt a the movefoard. >> i think also in terms of timing is that over the summer, it's not the time to sort of leas d aour oonenas jes sayssowni, now's n the

me treaseouran. thintheimen ter ofhe caaignime rt oill be septber,ou kn, stf en people are paying more attention as we g closer to the election? >> the other thing we should say is speh after speech aft spch ery d he ls out whob --t's nike h ha't - hn't tkedbout it 's wha the- >>et m -- i'een crical in t st. let me say that they have been very aggressive and their speeches have been very focused. i think that from the sndpot of mesge is tha oma has doneery ch bter the campgn f mon orso. th isomebyou poi o -- the's bee lot aut the middle class. we'll take a look at speech making after this. st in e mont sya let's do thiss lo, fos

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it's ta term that invokes politics. democrat invoke it the most re'she pside toung t prosrityor tiddllass >> ielie ourrospityas alys cerom ancono that bilfromtron and growg middle class. what w need is somebody who's going to fight every single day to grow the middle class. believe t hea and sou of isounts to me se the rkin peoe c fee se curi inhe midecls. ishis a cau o t prideneadi you boo or yong aice he had already taken? >> i think he kind of knew about it before i wrote the book. ouroint he i this e mile cssnhe cntry habeen deriotingor 3 yes an pple tdohink , yo kw- etesendo thk of theinanal csis a the sor o dividing point. they had been deteriorating before that. what i say this the bk is they had pneumonia andhe fanci

cris, wasike tck ttinthem wast an fun and i reay set em bk. th i kw ts h hpeneto em. th'reomplely are oft. theye had t adjtheir lives. and what they're looking for is for somebody to say let's put us at center and how are we going to dig ourselves out of th. >> b he- w weust talng- it' inrestg --n t begning of t shobouthe pr and low inco. >>ell,otfolks -- >> tng the's politics here now because a lot of the middle class arelipping into poverty. so there's -- yoow,ere' moarens. it notefleedn our potics >> iouldake t oyime theayactuly- thonly me mdle ince actllyre nce e '70s was ding the '90s. people have aed me,ou'v owedhe mideass. wh abohe po? nody i pertyant to sta ere. thgs le enedncomax care thing, and when the economy

comes back, the thing that pulls people out of the economy is part of the middle ass. >> not onl tha buteadi th boo payg aenti to jen gtss ter. so of genetion,e're gointoe t firenerion at w't d betr tn our rentand won'tbe, you know, in the middle class, right? and so it's slipping, and so the numbs ar sinki ierms of pple ingn ere. thinmyaren ay 2kr57bpares, youkn, rais mendhey we abl to do tt wh aome- youow, with job and peng and all those sorts of things. >> with an education. >> with an education. and are we going havthatnd, u kn,ost peoen m genetionre sll ihat strulingstanoint ty tea noafe whey pents and ni andpentsthey fel safe acy cur in their job and their pension and their health care and all of those things to beble to provide. >> the irony is erything get chearxcepfor the plars

ofiddllass ve. dsetheaputducaon and housing doan get cheap sneer wh obama gets attacked for class warfare it' the biggest jo in e wod. it ihe mide cland theye be aacke for 3 or yrs and serch ts stanrd oivin actlly erod getorse i an ts islmos-- for those of us who grew up in the '50s and '60s is unheard. >>hedeahat cla warre actllyandi out, i ink e le proessi liralseed do betr job in ter of word the livg we is one of the few two-word terms. if my husband goes around the house one moreime and talks out ath taxe'moing to ck h out. the ar tms tt ar not re. >>'moing t aou is. giveowuchtatteersu the fundamental. political scientists say one

thing. folks in the industry say another. i want you to answer that right afr we take this break. aluxury, itelpso ha annterr fullf ha-sectedood im andoftremi leaer. anit doesn't hurt to have a selec-terrain dial that truly performs. ♪

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e yalko polical ientts, ich don' kno how much of that you do, they say basically look, if you leak at the metrics, income, is persal -- avege pernal dispablencomring, fall yo c merett gooodel predtion in the wld of puntrynd polical stragistvery little thing is looked over, this gaffe, that statement, that ad, how much control does a campgn reallyave or the outce? 10%? %? 40%? >> mt eleions ttou g to doe'tmatt. we kd onow who' goio wi hate to say this -- >> it's amazing to say this. >> i'm right. anthinif jes carlle

nevexistill clion wodn'tave gotn ected in 19. hover, tre a se fuamenl matts. 04, hink tampan me diffce. '76 was a big one. about four won that election. it was down by a ga still john this wasne ofhoselectns wher it' goi toatte tt eampan- the candate peormae isoingo tter we doot kw rigow o's gog toin thi elecon. can'iternd sayou know, obama's going to win. >> right. just because it's so close. >> so close and you have the competing dynicf- t poticalciensts -on thg i ow,f you tal t ve pitic ientts, y wi g s opions. another cut at that, there's a kind of shrinking democracy process at worst he. there a 12 stes a be, ing stes. lastgo-aund tre wer 8. wiin tse ste usre dealg wi 3%r 4% the

persuadables. i wonder how we bust open a system so people feel every vote coun. >>lso-e'relso -- >> by defitio -- fiv ing ates myefinion o awing ste is a staouave a chan to win butf you lost, you could still win. therefore, pennsylvania is not. if the democratics lose pennsylvania, dhiejt have a chce t wi >>hat' wrenoth -he vote'mpreion stu i allyriou >>76000oter eimat to nohave thed.ecesry t vond theew law. >> and a few weeks ago he said he had really pulled it together for mitt romney to win that state. >> wre ao msing in the nvertionsoter rnou an sorf bng abl t predt homany pplere gog to youknowurn out for isecti. u c't use 200s barometer. james would probably tell you in terms of looking aet the number, you can't put 2008 numbers in an equation to try andprict. >> a it'gointo bhardor th --hose tuout nbers

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jus a moment now what we didn't know now that we knew last week. first my book "twilights of the reiler thisedneay il be appring athe cmon od hern n yo toissit checout e tlighf th elit facebook page or "up" on msnbc.com for upcoming pearces. do m fe,appy annirsar i ve yobe. in009 theame yea the t rty gan eirti-t otes. thamerans id the lowest tax rate in 30 years. we know the average tax rate was 17.4% down from 07. wenow theate dline i part bauseveraouseld comef arica sli fro 101,0 i007 t 88,400.

the ceo expects to see historically low tax rates in 2010 and 2011 as well. we now knowhe faoutrom histical lowaxevennd austity asur is seadi acss t sta of oridn thformf an outbak o tubeulos. ri scott's massive health and human services budget cuts, was know florida shut down the only tb hpitahreeonthfter ceivg a port frothe nterofisea conol a prenti thaonef th rgestboutbaks s contned. already been exposed. we know the mcs hate the affordablect so much they have spent morehan 80 hrs on e use floo twoweek a a costf $5illiryinto repe thew. wenown wnesd the folled u the rdttem to repeal the legislation of the house by a golf tournament at a country club. >> i wanted to rept to the house that ts year wnerf

th cgresonal cs th reblic tea >> le iwasver i dot. knowho republicans like to put our tax dollars to work. we know the investigation by the justice department reveals inpendt brers for wls rgodirimitedolack ringheousi csis argi the hhereesnd ratethanohite browers with the same credit risk. we know wells fargo which denies wrongdoing agreed to pay a settmentf a lst$1 milln, wch i appved by fedel jue, wld b t cond lgest stlemtn juste dertme stor finay, tnks tudy published in the journal of computishes computers and human behavior, 85% of undergrads felt phantom ll pne bratns. e moou use t pne a thmore yecei you tt meagesthe reikel you are fluzzi f someing at i't ther

that's a metaphor for something. let's begin with you, mr. mark. >> well, what we know that we didn'tnow boras tt 'll angeheubje her a ttle bi 000 ht rordsere broken in the united states in june, that is 100 a day. heat records are being broken all t ti. imat cnges forealnd stnoth parf th denl clite cnge xacthe me adeni of e ndsf the people othe united states. and that the denial of the support of the 1% by republican congress. it'sll t se piure. >> wtalkot aut the cordeat st weeon p." sincth, the's n datout om o of e niona cters for the first six months of the year being the sixth months warmest on record. joy llia. >>ealke abooter suppssiobut somhinghat i

ow n ttidn' kno was th proct tt jt ce o th a repthat in diti toheeopl tt wld b disenfranchised because of id and other things like that, that there will be about 5.85 million people acrosthe cntryhat wi not hav t rig tote beuse ey werevisly inrcered. sohat' ahole norer poputionho he tir voting rights stripped from them. that's 5.85 million people that will not be able to cast a ballot in thisoming elecon. flodaad bad recd on th. th brednyon o aelon fr ving fover. it w repled by chaie cis and rnstad by ck stt in florida. we have seen that repeated in a number of states. katrinavaerheel. i bng ts up mk y wre a gre cumnboutim st ar,ut we were talking about food. little known is the food for

peace program he ran and also in a bipartisan move he did a lot of work with door wome chilen,utrionogra. but 's mf grt ingrit dency. d ithk,ou know you d't ha to ainne to be a winner. he certainly didn't -- that campaigng -- he was quoted as ying2012 sdn thelose up i codn'telie tha thi couny wa -- y h pple taing out rollck of soal surit and medicare. >> i have an opportunity to be a nkst and'mot goi t leit ps m up thisoo hasotteery gd reews. 's cled "it' the mide class stupid!" this is deep in my bones, that's all i can tell you. >> a great pasure to have y re. yore oshoreaveelli ur book are hpy to havu.

y wiiams co-ht othe radishowhiseek ackns, katrina vander heuvel, and james rhill, couthoof t's t mide cls stid." thanyou r joing utoy. jo usomorw at 8:. we he areat gut. 'll tko ed conard. he's a partner at bain capital, which means he was there during 99 and20 wheppartly e wa runng t mpan ditt rneyas multeous botat and not atain athe me te. wereonfudnd wlsk h sorit out for us. cong up next, melissa harris-perry. melissa is talking big bird, mitt romney and the middle ass. e mile css i kpinghe eltion how c big bd be mit roey's greest uning? at's missaharr-per comi up xt. l se you tomorrow as always at 8:00. thank you so much for getting up.

thiss neyorktate we blt t f raiay, e fit tre roe to t wes thgreast eires we blt t f raiay, then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one th's workingo atact buness a ace ere novaon mes derminion. well today, there's a new new york state. anbusissesead e wod. one th's workingo atact buness the w neyorkvawos fobusiss.nion. well today, there's a new new york state. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com.

> ts moing,he ene with thaisushing our troops to the bring. plus, the pipeline from cradle to prison. time to cap that pe. an ifhe unploynt outlr. y fo o gro 8.2 wld b aviory. bufirs mtmney fht wi "sesame street" proves he will never understand main street. > go moing. melis harr-per. as ugl as amecanolital mpais cat, tre suld a f things off limits, even for the fiercest batts. one of those things is this guy. g bird yoknowhe crish

ildr's hohoas a lovae lrnin tl for kid thworlov. bi bd, tuy ws the hearandoul o "sesame street." the program meant to teach tolerance and cooperion. well, not everyone wld agree big bird is clo to a-potica gooessse ca t. foso, bigird andisang of mupt fends areocia riahddicdo govnment haouts >> tre a proams at i like, like pbs. i mean, my grandkids watch pbs. they like to watchsesa stet." u kn, i juson'thinke ca aord t borw mey fro chintoay f this we solulyon'tave to do. he cas o pbs, i wld say get more contributors or advertisers but the government is not going to pick up the bill by borrowing mone >>hat s miomnepeakg to rad iowayin out the kind ofavin youanely o om t romyesidcy. parely m rne wasakin big rds'advi. said, show your true colo