and nbc's chris jansing. can you describe the scene in the courtroom from outside looking in, his affect was so strange, he looked dazed. what was it like close up? >> reporter: yeah, it really was. when i was in the courtroom in the jared loughner case in arizona, he engaged with people, he looked at people, he looked angrily at some of us in the media. in this instance, everybody was looking toward the door when he came in. he shuffled in, manhandcuffed hs and ankles. he wasn't engaging with his two public defenders. he didn't look at anybody. didn't look at the judge when the judge mirandized him. didn't look at the judge or respond in any way at all when the judge asked him directly whether he had anything to say and he didn't look out in the courtroom to people sitting in the 108 seats, including five family members of decedents of some of the victims who died in the theater shooting. the hearing only lasted 11 minutes. he didn't, as i say, give anybody anything to work with

except to see somebody who was so lethargic that he appeared almost to be, to use a word from my generation, spaced out, drugged out. he wouldn't have had access to any other drugs obviously in prison unless he was on maintenance medication, but he had that look to him. as i said, he didn't even speak or say anything to his attorney or nod or make any gesture whatsoever. he was just a figure there, almost apart from the proceedings, although he was the focus of course of all of them. >> chris, you have been there from the very beginning. you have talked to the victims, to the law enforcement officials. talk about today and seeing him for the first time. how shocking was it? >> i think that this was for many of them a devastating moment and a moment that sort of brought back to the fore that question which is unanswered, which is why. why did this happen. and talking to experts, they say we may never know why. in fact, a motive isn't

necessarily going to be critical to prosecuting this case. there is so much evidence that is out there. having said that, afterwards, the district attorney was asked is this an open and shut case, is this a slam-dunk. she said there is no such thing as a slam-dunk case which is why they're moving forward so methodically about the evidence. all that was collected inside his apartment that's now been sent to fbi officials in quantico. we saw inside that courtroom today his defense attorneys asking to get inside the theater but when you go back to his demeanor, and there were people in there, family members of victims, who just wanted to see him, wanted the chance to see who this person was who had changed their lives so dramatically. the piece of evidence that doesn't even exist yet are psychiatric reports. we know that that is going to be a key thing that's going to happen. his defense attorneys will hire a psychiatrist and then legally, the prosecution also gets to

hire theirs because the key question in this case, once you get beyond is he competent to stand trial, will be the insanity defense and whether or not this becomes a death penalty case. >> mike, did you have a chance to talk to any of the people, any of the survivors, the victims' families, in the courtroom as to why they wanted to be there? >> reporter: no. some of the reasons are obvious, but there were only five family members of decedents in the courtroom and they were surrounded by victims' advocates. there had to be 20 of them. they will be assigned to all the people who were injured, killed and seriously injured as this process goes forward and as the d.a. made plain in her statements after the proceeding today, the prosecutors are going to consult very carefully with all the family members, all the survivors, to see whether they want to go for the death penalty. that decision won't be made until a period within 60 days after arraignment. that in itself could be months down the line. the question of his defense down the line, i talked to a couple

of defense attorneys who have handled a couple of dozen capital defense cases. i talked to prosecutors who tried to prosecute them and to get past the insanity defense, you will hear a lot about ngi, not guilty by reason of insanity. my question to them was whether or not since this individual has not been responsive to anybody since his arrest, hasn't spoken to the cops, had no substantive conversation with his public defenders, can he just basically stonewall his way to an insanity defense by not responding. as chris said, he will be sent for evaluation on competency down to boulder, the state hospital, where they will force feed him medications if necessary. to see if he can be restored to sanity and to the ability to assist in his own defense as they are trying to do what loughner in arizona. you can't fake crazy forever. this is a guy, a bright guy, who obviously underwent a change into something else. something else exploded midnight thursday night. >> none of this is going to happen very quickly which is

part of why you will see a very careful development of relationships between the district attorney's office and the victims' families. they really want to consult them every step of the way. this is known to be a strong d.a.'s office. there are only three people on death row here in colorado, two of them were prosecuted here in arapahoe county. >> reporter: one other thing about the court proceeding, the one motion that was referenced by judge sylvester that got my attention was by the prosecutor, lead prosecutor. she wanted a motion to have access to all the records from the university of colorado. that's important because it goes to the question of whether or not anybody should have known or might have noticed or in some way shared responsibility for letting this individual get to this point. how do you ship 150 pounds worth of ammunition, 6,000 rounds, some of those shipments made to a college campus address, should somebody have noticed that. he's the sole suspect, a lone actor, by all the evidence that's in at this point but i think there's going to be some

examination on that score, too. who else should have known or might have known or had an opportunity to know along the way. >> one more quick point, if i can. clint van zandt, who is a former fbi profiler, one thing he noticed in our conversation afterwards was that he thought the only time that the suspect actually looked like he was paying attention was when the judge was talking about the media and access to this case, and one of the things that criminal profilers will tell you is that often, these are loners who are looking to make a big statement, who are looking for attention, so that was something in the courtroom that clint really watched and thought might be significant. >> clearly the significance of someone who would dye his hair and all the references to "batman" and the joker, there are a lot of psychological issues, obviously, in play here as well. thank you so much, mike taibbi and chris jansing for your reporting. this weekend, kate snow had an emotional conversation with aurora police chief daniel oates

about just how he and his officers are handling this tragedy. kate also asked oates how he feels that someone like james holmes had access to the kinds of weapons, to all the ammunition that he used in the midnight attack. >> he was able to shoot almost 70 people in the span of just a couple of minutes before your guys were able to get there. do you personally think he should have had access to that kind of a weapon? >> i think my opinions on guns and gun control are really, you know, every police chief in america would say we're here to enforce the law and our public policy and democratic process sets policy on gun control and all that kind of stuff. i've been asked that several times and it's not my place to weigh in on gun policy. i've never been a big fan of guns myself, and i don't know a lot about weapons so i accept and what i have said is in our

society in colorado, he legally possessed those weapons. he legally possessed that ammunition. he legally possessed those magazines. to the extent an event like this results in society's introspection around weapons, that's probably a good thing. you and i and other americans have seen events like this, virginia tech shooting, fort hood shooting. we have seen all these things and there's always over time a diagnosis by the law enforcement folks and the psychiatrists and sure enough, there always seems to be that there were warning signs that were missed. >> kate joins me now from aurora. kate, that was a fascinating interview. all of your work for the last three days has just been amazing, since it all first started. i was really struck also when you asked him about holmes and how perhaps he was planning simultaneous events, the apartment blowing up at the same

time as the theater. he did stand there, let them arrest him, and tell them about the apartment. he of course wouldn't say exactly what he had said because he's being very careful about the legal implications of that. >> reporter: that's right. that's right. >> tell us about that. >> reporter: the chief basically said when they arrested holmes, he said again you can't tell us exactly what was said or i think he used the word admissions were, but he said there was an indication that we needed to get over to that apartment and check it out. so something he said tipped them off that they needed to go check his apartment. here's what's interesting. there's a theory that holmes played loud techno music, started playing around midnight just before the theater shooting, very loudly, in an apartment complex. the theory is that perhaps he started playing that music to draw attention, to get one of his neighbors to call the police and then as we know, that apartment we now know was rigged with boobytraps and trip wires

and if a police officer had responded and walked through that front door, it would have ignited an explosion that the police chief told me could have taken down the entire building. it would have caused a huge response in aurora, would have drawn every fire department, every policeman and that would have diverted attention, then half an hour later, perhaps, he w was planning to go into that movie theater. we're speculating. the chief did not want to go too far on that but he did say look, what i can say is if that had happened, we would have been seriously compromised because we would have had two major incidents going on at the same time. >> kate, you were also talking on the chief about the fact that he was dressed in the gear, you know, of a s.w.a.t. team member but that the officers were good enough that they spotted that his uniform or costume, whatever you want to call it, was not accurate so that he was not a member of the s.w.a.t. team but

he might have wanted to sort of meld in with the first responders. >> reporter: yeah. that's certainly what the chief is surmising, that this man, holmes, was wearing all black. he was wearing a face mask. he was wearing body armor as we know. he had long guns on him. if you listen to the tapes that came out from the dispatchers and the radio traffic that was going on, they're describing him and he sounds like someone who looks like a police officer, frankly. the chief said to me he looked like, in that chaos, in a scene like that that's unfolding very quickly, someone might have looked at him and thought he was one of them, one of the police officers, but his officers smartly were able to look at him and notice something wasn't quite right and that's why they surrounded him and they were able to arrest him within a matter of minutes after arriving at the theater. again, the chief really wanted to say, he said to me i wanted to do this interview because i want to tell you how proud i am of my officers and the response. it was an emotional interview. he cried at several points

because they have been at this now for over three days, and they're drained and they're just now starting to process what they did on friday morning and how they probably saved countless lives. >> he told you something else, that his own daughter was at a midnight screening at another theater complex nearby. >> reporter: yeah. so imagine this. you're the chief of police in aurora, you get woken up at 1:00 in the morning from a phone call on your cell phone, you hear there's a theater shooting and you know your daughter is at a theater. as a father, he was terrified for a few moments, realized that his daughter was at a different theater complex and she was okay pretty quickly. so that was all right. but you know, he said he feels this not just as chief of police, but as a father. >> kate snow, it's hard to be a reporter in these circumstances but you and the whole team out there have been extraordinary. thank you. politicians and guns. why even the white house is afraid of the nra, next. still ahead, my interview

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supreme court said yeah, second amendment right to bear arms but there are reasonable restrictions that can be put on it. >> plug the one or two loopholes in the laws they already passed, then fund the enforcement of it. >> 18 months since arizona and we did nothing. if not now, when you going to do this? >> new york city mayor michael bloomberg today on "morning joe" pushing for tougher gun laws or at least the enforcement of those already passed. in the face of a lot of opposition from mitt romney, for instance, and no action at all from the white house in a campaign year. chris cillizza is an msnbc contributor and managing editor of postpolitics.com and mark halperin, editor at large for

"time" magazine and msnbc senior political analyst. chris cillizza, let's talk about gun control. the politics of gun control. because you had barack obama in the past saying that he supported the assault weapon ban. he said so in 2008 and mitt romney, when he was governor, supported the assault weapon ban. it expired in 2004 and neither of them now are either supporting it or doing anything to get it put back into place. >> i would say it expired in 2004, we've had virginia tech, we've had that gabrielle giffords, fort hood, and now we have aurora, colorado. i hate to sound a cynical note but looking at that recent past, you would conclude that action in any broad scale way on gun control is unlikely. let me give you one stat i think is incredibly striking. gallup has been polling gun control and reaction for quite some time. in 1990, 78% of people favored more strict gun laws. at that point, 10% favored

either less strict or keeping the laws the same. today, 55% less strict or keep the laws the same, 44% more strict. you have just seen a sea change and i don't think it's any accident that it's gone from a top of the mind issue with the assault weapons ban in the early 1990s with bill clinton to an issue that democrats and republicans simply don't touch. >> jay carney was asked about this, mark halperin, yesterday, and he directed reporters to an op-ed the president wrote in the "arizona daily star" after the succe tucson shooting and says he believes it is possible to protect second amendment rights of the american people but ensure we are not allowing weapons into the hands of individuals who should not by existing laws obtain those weapons. the key phrase, by existing law. copout? >> there's some realities of this in terms of politics. if you walk the halls of most major news organizations or of the oeob at the white house or west wing, you would find overwhelming sentiment there should be stricter gun control laws in the united states.

for people who want that like mayor bloomberg, they say it's the power of the nra. that's part of it. it's also the reality of what's reflected in the poll chris cited, it's stronger than just the numbers chris cited because the intensity in terms of guns as a voting issue is much more on the side of people who don't want additional gun control legislation. the people who want more argue for it, have press conferences, try to say it's about crime and not the second amendment but they made no progress and it's manifested most clearly by president obama, you know, being passionate and reaching out and talking about the victims which is first and foremost on all our minds now, but not be willing to put legislative muscle behind it because it's a loser politically and will not pass and does not represent the will of most of the american people. >> caroline mccarthy, who went into politics after her husband was killed, her son seriously injured on the long island railroad by this crazed gunman, she says she does not believe

the 1994 losses were because of the assault weapon ban, that bill clinton did sign into law, the democratic losses, but if you ask most democrats in congress, they disagree. i want to show a little bit of candidate obama in 2008 at the democratic national convention and also mitt romney back in 2007. >> don't tell me we can't uphold the second amendment while keeping ak-47s out of the hands of criminals. >> the assault ban that expired here because congress didn't act on it, you would support? >> just as the president said, he would have signed that bill if it came to his desk and so would have i. >> i don't think that either of them would sign that bill right now and it won't come to anybody's desk any time soon. >> i was going to say, mark hit on this and you did, too. the critical phrase in that is "if it came to the president's desk." they both know, obama and romney know there is just no sentiment outside pockets of people like

caroline mccarthy, dianne feinstein spoke about about doing more to close loopholes but there is no broad sentiment either in congress or the broad electorate they represent to do anything. this is an easy one in some ways for president obama and mitt romney to say i would support it if it came to my desk. it's not coming to their desk. >> of course, dianne feinstein, whose rise in politics occurred partly, partly because of harvey milk's assassination. we talk about gun control, a lot of these people, lot of politicians have been, you know, have been affected by it personally and are passionate about it but can't do anything about the national climate. we'll have more when we come back. thanks, chris cillizza, mark halperin. the politics of gun control. this is new york state. we built the first railway,

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joining me now, dan gross, president of the brady campaign and the brady center to prevent gun violence. dan, we were just talking about the fact that neither of the candidates are willing to take on even the reinstatement of the assault weapon ban, so what hope do you have right now given the lack of political support and public support, frankly, for gun control? >> the only hope is creating the public support. when you look at the polls around specific measures, you see that the overwhelming majority of reasonable americans, including gun owners and non-gun owners, red staters and blue staters, republicans and democrats, are in favor of some sensible things that we can actually do to prevent a lot of the gun violence that happens in our country. and i think it's up to us to reframe this conversation, to take it out of the realm of political partisanship. for those who are in favor of gun policy, as president obama did, come out and say i support the second amendment and then let's come to the table as

americans concerned with solving this problem, around the idea that we're better than this as a nation. that's why we've created this petition for the american public to sign to ask both president obama and mitt romney to offer not only sympathy which is certainly very appropriate in the case of this tragedy, but also solutions. we have the petition up on brady campaign.org. >> what about the amount of ammunition that james holmes was able to get online? 6,000 rounds. >> it's shocking. i think a lot of america is shocked by that. i think a lot of america is shocked by the 100 round drum that he was able to use. but you know, we need first to take a step back and to say collectively as a nation we're better than this, and we want to live in a country where these things don't happen. i think if we can come to the table and look at each individual solution, whether it's around ammunition, around dangerous people getting ahold of guns, you know, there's a law that says convicted felons aren't allowed to own guns.

unfortunately, there are no background checks in place to prevent convicted felons from buying guns. if we take a step back and say we respect the second amendment as has now been defined by the supreme court, and we also -- but we respect just as fundamentally human life and we look for solutions, the opportunity to save lives, i'm confident that we can find solutions that we all agree. the polling shows there is public support. when you ask the public are you in favor of gun control as a concept by itself, that number is very low but when you ask about specific measures like do you think there should be background checks to prevent convicted felons from buying guns, you see 80%, 90% of americans, including gun owners, are in support of that. it's first a question of really listening to the public and the public demanding solutions and it goes right to the top to president obama and mitt romney, those who either hold or seek the highest office in our land. >> of course, the public pressure seems to be all on the other side. you even have resistance in

congress to stop people on the terrorist watch list from having access to guns. i'm curious as to what you thought of john hickenlooper, the governor of colorado, and he was pressed on this point on "meet the press" and was basically saying this man has clearly mental problems, that's his supposition, let's talk about the insanity of this, let's not talk about the guns. he didn't want to deal with that either. >> it's hard to comment on a governor who is going through as much as he is and dealing with the utter tragedy of the situation. but i have to say that's the only thing that i think the american public should question is when somebody blatantly is at this point willing to write off completely part of the solution, to say something isn't the answer, how do we know. with all due respect, how does he know. we need to step back and have a national dialogue about this. a reasonable national conversation where we all come to the table with one goal only, which is saving lives.

>> dan gross from the brady campaign, thank you very much. meanwhile, there was a brief suspension of politics but no more. mitt romney, back on the campaign trail. the president back on the campaign trail today. romney leaves this week for the olympics and for foreign stops in israel and in poland. he is likely to stake out hard line policy, foreign policy positions. joining me now, msnbc analyst and former republican chairman, michael steele. hey, michael. thanks so much. is there a balancing act? there's always the long-standing protocol that candidates don't criticize the president from overseas. >> right. >> in habitant of the white house. how does mitt romney handle this going to israel, where he has a very close, long-standing former business relationship with benjamin netanyahu and there's a pretty poisonous relationship despite some denials between netanyahu and this white house. he will likely get a very good reception both there and in

poland. >> i think you're right on both those fronts. this is an opportunity for mitt to reframe his campaign in an international context to give it some mojo in that regard, particularly after the last four weeks of bain and tax returns, to shift that emphasis, but you then bring up the point about i think correctly, this balancing act. i don't suspect he will go there and be, you know, anti-obama, hard-core, negative comments about what the president's done or failed to do on international stage, respecting that proposition that you don't criticize a president on foreign soil. but i think it gives him a chance to sort of very clearly delineate how he would do it differently, how he would approach the relationship with israel in the context of iran, and now even egypt that's beginning to second guess that relationship. >> he starts in london, starts at the olympics, and that's an opportunity for him to try to show off what he accomplished in salt lake and bring that back to

mind and of course, ann romney has her horse -- >> dressage. >> -- competing in dressage. then to israel, which is right now in the throes of reaction to the attack on bulgaria, the young israeli tourists, pressure coming from netanyahu and from the defense establishment there for some sort of action against iran or hezbollah, and at the same time, syria, the worry in israel about chemical weapons on the move in syria, criticism of the administration coming from israel for its response or what mccain and others say is not a strong enough response to syria. >> that's true, but there's nothing that mitt romney can do about any of that, because he's not president of the united states. he's seeking the job. so he has to frame it in the context of affirming the relationship, the long-held relationship and i believe he's already had quotes out over this weekend, affirming that relationship with israel, for example, and speaking in terms of a broader approach to solving

some of these problems, creating a different kind of partnership than one that has been put in place by this administration. but i don't think it's wise, nor do i think it's politically astute for him to go out there and full frontal, you know, go after the president in terms of his policies towards israel and with respect to iraq, syria and the like. i think he's going to be much more measured, in keeping with what romney's done in the past, but i think they're looking at this as a chance to elevate the campaign on an international level, that allows him to speak in broader tones, and to show a clear distinction between his style of diplomacy and obama's style of diplomacy, which some have referred to as aloof or leading from behind. >> be very interesting if he gets a little more specific about what he would do on iran, that would be different -- >> specifics? >> we haven't seen any specifics. >> presidential campaign? are you kidding me? >> thank you for that, michael steele. the fight against aids comes to washington. coming up, my interview next with elton john.

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something very important is happening in washington today. for the first time in 22 years, the international aids conference, an annual conference, is here in the united states. it is here in washington, and that is interesting because for two decades, there was a ban on hiv positive delegates coming and it was lifted two years ago by the obama administration, making it possible for the conference to come here today. >> so many people all over the world have not been satisfied that we have done enough. and i am here to set a goal for a generation that is free of aids. >> elton john, whose foundation

has raised almost $300 million for aids research and prevention, delivered the keynote address today. >> everyone deserves compassion. everyone deserves dignity. everyone, everyone, everyone deserves love. why am i telling you this? because the aids disease is caused by a virus, but the aids epidemic is not. the aids epidemic is fueled by stigma. >> i sat down with elton john last night when he arrived in this country to talk about his deeply personal connection to aids, which he explores in his new memoir, "love is the cure." he explains how he was drawn into the crusade by ryan white, the young american boy whose infection in the mid 1980s transformed the way americans viewed the disease and helped change the musician's life. he was then drug-addicted. he became one of the leading humanitarians of the aids and equal rights movement.

>> the scene has changed. the prospects are great. we have this disease by the scruff of the neck now. we've made so many medical advances towards the disease, but some people are being left behind. the drug users, the prostitutes, people in prison, we need needle exchange programs and also, people are still ashamed to say they're hiv positive. the only way we're going to sort this out is by being more loving toward each other. a lot of people i think might be put off by the word love. it makes them feel uncomfortable, it makes them feel, especially the british, they are so constipated. substitute the word love for kindness. but that's what we need. people with cancer are treated with compassion, kindness and love. people with hiv and aids are treated a lot of the time with don't come near me. >> here we are in the city of washington. it is the aids capital of the united states of america. >> yes. disgrace. >> the infection rate is on par

with parts of africa. >> higher, actually. it's higher. yeah. >> it's ignored by local officials. what would you like to see happen? should president obama be showing more leadership? >> president obama has done so much but when you come to local officials, it's sometimes down to their local fund, the federal government may have to step in in washington because what is happening here, a lot of people, lot of women, lot of drug users, lot of prostitutes, time to stop this. no one should be left behind. if we leave people behind, in this disease, we have to start right from the very beginning again. we are so far along the path. we have the light at the end of the tunnel. we have to include everybody. we have to make them feel as one. i think we can do that. but it needs effort on a government level, on a private sector level and it certainly needs it on a humanity level. >> can you imagine now a generation without aids?

is this within sight? >> yeah. we have these anti-retroviral drugs that if a woman who is pregnant and has hiv takes these every day, she will not pass it on to her child. if someone is infected with hiv and has sex with someone, unprotected sex, there's only a likelihood 4% chance they will pass the disease on. >> in "love is the cure" you write movingly about ryan white. let's talk about what he meant to you and how he changed your life. >> well, he was kind of put in my life to save me, i think, by whoever. i met him through going into a doctor's office in new york, reading a "newsweek" or "time," but reading about how he had been treated, how he had had this operation and been given a drug for transfusion and accidentally been hiv positive. and what had happened to his family disgusted me because

there was so much ignorance in that time. people were still -- even though the surgeon general of america said there's nothing to fear, you can't get it from touching anyone, you can't get it from a toilet seat, people were in a panic. they shot bullets through his door, they tried to fire-bomb his home and they made his life miserable. they tried to stop him going to school. they took away his rights, basically, and his family fought and fought and fought and finally he was reinstated in school. eventually, i was able to help the family to move to another place in indiana where they were welcomed with open arms. it's just basically fear and ignorance that sort of made people do that sort of thing to a child. but that child became a man, really, because his outlook on aids was okay, nothing, there's no cure, there's no medicine, and what he taught me was that i am a 16-year-old boy who has so much dignity, never complains, is always compassionate to other people, his mother, his sister, his whole family were just an amazing attitude.

no anger, just, they just wanted to put love into the situation. ryan, you know, said anyone who has hiv and aids, i'm with them. i'm part of them. and he died at 18 years of age and i was there for the last week of his life, and i realized at that time that my life was just self-absorbed, drug addict. i was a waste of space. when you take drugs, it gives you such an inflated opinion of yourself, it makes you live in an unreal world, you live in a bubble, and i just looked at my life and i thought god, look what you are and look what he is and look what the white family are. they are what you were. they are where you came from, working class people who cared and are generous and sweet and kind and courageous. and six months later, i was sober. he planted a big seed. i could have taken the choice of

living or dying and i chose finally to live. so i figured ryan was put in my life, i got a second chance at my life and the biggest break possible. then i have to make up for lost time and do something positive. i had lost so many friends but i wasn't there on the front line and as a gay man and a person who had lost so many friends, i looked back at myself saying how could you have done this, how could you have not been there. i'm afraid that's the power of drug addiction. so what ryan white did to me was taught me how to be human again. >> what a lesson he learned. the contributions, the leadership over the next two decades. more on that, his personal life, his marriage, his child, in our continuing interview with elton john. up next today, penn state pays the price. ♪

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it's a better policy that gets you a better car. call... or visit one of our local offices today, and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance, responsibility -- what's your policy? in a statement just issued, joe paterno's family has now

accused penn state of quote, an abdication of responsibility and breach of fiduciary duties to the university and its 500,000 alumni for accepting the ncaa punishment today without challenge. family calls this a panic response. the ncaa has barred penn state from participating in bowl games for four years and fined the school $60 million, among other penalties, for covering up years of child sex abuse. but the ncaa stopped short of shutting down the university's entire football program. joining me now is b.j.shechter. thanks for joining us. first of all, the decision by the ncaa not to completely end the football program. their explanation was that it was not fair to punish everyone for what some had done. >> well, i think what essentially the ncaa has done is levied a penalty that's on par with the death penalty. i think if you're going to use that logic, then there are some other sanctions but essentially, by eliminating 40 scholarships

and denying penn state the ability to play in bowl games for four years, you're crippling the four year, you're crippling the program forred a least a decade if not longer. so if essence they did issue a death penalty-like penalty. >> and in sports terminology, that is to shut down the program. at this stage, how does penn state recruit young men for their program when they know they have no option of postseason play? >> they're really put willing themselves at the a significant disadvantage. even more so than other programs in a have gotten similar bowl bans. if you're a top player, you're not going to go to penn state fp given the scandal, if you're a parent of a player that is a division one caliber athlete, you would think twice before letting your kid question to pen say the. >> are you surprised by the about

paterno family statement is this. >> i am. what has happened is a tragedy to everybody involved. we all know what joe paterno did and did not do by being, you know, so vocal in statements like this, i think it all prolongs this tragedy. i think we need to move on from this and learn from it. and i think the paterno family would do well if they did that. >> b.j., thank you very much for joining us today. and one of the most powerful cuban dissident voices for human rights as died. he and three others were killed in a car accident yesterday under what paya's family says were suspicious circumstances. the car they were driving in was reportedly repeatedly rammed by another vehicle until it was sent careening over the side of a cliff. his widow and sons are returning for his body to be returned

home. i sad down with paya in 2002 and he spoke of death threats to him and his family. >> translator: i can give you many examples of specific threats and activities against me and my family. for example, the day before leaving for europe, the security of the state locked my door from the outside with a cable in order not to allow us to get out. a few weeks before, they put red paint on to the door to present it as if it was blood and of course this has been frightening all my family, my wife and my three kids. >> paya was twice nominated for the nel peace prize. the white house said today that the president e's thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends calling him a tireless champion for greater civic and human rights in cuba. he was 60 years old. ♪

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that does it for apdree a mitchell reports. craig melvin has a look at what's next on news nation. >> good afternoon. within the past couple hour, the accused gun man in colorado made his first court pains. well get new details, also how the tragedy has reignited the gun control debate in this country. and the and you yuthor of anato evening will join me it talk about it. and the ncaa slamming penn state. and mitt romney getting ready for his first overseas trip of his presidential campaign. we'll take a look at the potential risks and rewards. [ kyle ] my bad. [ roger ] tell me you have good insurance. yup, i've got... [ voice of dennis ] ...allstate. really? i was afraid you'd have some cut-rate policy.

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ago. it was our first time seeing the suspect since he allegedly killed 12 people and injured dozens more inside that aurora movie theater friday night. holmes showing no signs of emotion there during today's hearing. did he did look extremely desired and struggled to keep his eyes open. the hair died reddish orange. you might remember he told police he was the joker. he's currently in solitary confinement held without bond. all of this as prosecutors grapple with the decision of whether to pursue the death penalty. >> victims will be impacted by that decision in an enormous way for years. if the death penalty is sought, that's a very long process that impacts their lives. for years. and so they will want to have and well want to get their input before we make any kind of a decision on that. >> let's bring in mike taibbi outside the courthouse. good afternoon to you. >> reporter: hi, craig, how are

you. >> what's the latest? >> reporter: i was inside the courtroom. i'll go through that. i was inside the courtroom, they had 35 seats set aside of the press. and everybody was watching for what you just saw, the demeanor of this defendant, the suspect, lone suspect in this horrific crime. you showed him being heavy lidded. beyond that his affect was one that just didn't engage with anybody. not with one of his two public defenders, that's tamara brady sitting next to him, not with the judge when the judge asked him if he had anything to say, not with the family members, the five family members of the decedents, victims who had died who were sitting just to the left of me. and their eyes were on him constantly. he didn't engage with anybody at all and the judge determined that there was probable cause to hold him without bond until the next step and the next step of course will be the formal charges filed