it is pathetic. >> we'll get back to willie in a few minutes. it is pathetic and there is some new polls out that show this is going to be a long haul. >> why didn't anybody -- seriously? >> it's a really long haul. >> ugly. >> we were talking to top political person yesterday, why didn't somebody run as an independent this year? >> oh. that was an interesting conversation you guys were having. >> this was the year for an independent to run. >> hunger for it. is it just us? >> no, it's not. i think it's an accurate reflection of what's going on in the country and you're right, joe, this is a fourth grade student council election run amuck at this point. the reality of it is -- >> with a billion dollars on both sides. >> that's the frightening part. none of this money will have anything to do with actually advancing, you know, positions about the future of the country, the direction we need to go, and the philosophical and i think

legitimate fif sofcle differences between both parties that have gotten obscured by obamaloney. >> it's not fourth grade, it's kindergarten. you know, what fourth graders would behave this badly? it is really not just annoying, but now it is corrosive to everything that needs to be done in this country. we have a drought, farmers are desperate, and congress went home. >> yeah. >> i mean that's -- and both parties to blame. >> yeah. mark halperin, what do the campaigns think about the fact that -- that they are viewed and their messages are viewed as essentially meaningless? just that they're taking politics to the lowest common denominator? >> i thought yesterday was a low point of what has been a pretty low campaign so far. both sides did things that were borderline outrageous or over the line into outrageous. you've got campaigns here being

run by people like stuart stevens and matt roads for the republicans and david axelrod and robert gibbs and others for the president who not only have run negative campaigns in the past, but reject the notion that they don't work. in fact, they believe that they do work. so i don't see a stop to this. i think these are two serious candidates. the irony are these are two of the more serious policy oriented candidates that have run in my career but i don't see any stop to it. both sides think this is to their advantage. >> wow. >> okay. let's take a look at the latest quinnipiac university/"new york times"/cbs polls of key battleground states that show a narrow split. romney leads the president 50 to 45% in colorado. president obama leads by 4% in virginia and 6% in wisconsin. >> let's just look at those three numbers. sam stein, first of all, colorado, the west, right now seeming to break romney's way. virginia, and wisconsin, still

close, but breaking the president's way. any surprises there for you? >> colorado seems a little bit surprising, i guess, just because there's been other polling that has shown obama with a comfortable or slightly slimmish lead. but the general rule has been that the swing states have been more favorable to the president than the country at large. i think these data points hold that up and if that's the case you could very well end up in a situation where obama loses the national vote but actually gains the electoral college vote and ends up the president and that would be pretty amazing coming so recently towards bush v. gore. >> andrea over the past month politico reported that the president's team has been burning through cash, spending money in swing states. does that -- do those numbers go the other way once romney starts burning through even bigger campaign chest? >> that what could likely happen. the president leaving today for two days in colorado. and you can just see where these

candidates are going. look at the romney bus tour in particular, going through virginia and then ending up in ohio. >> if you live in the swing states it's ugly. thank god that you have summer and winter in the south of france. i don't think -- not a lot. there's some expats but i don't think you're going to see these 30-second ads where you live. >> it's unbelievable, beyond a hypocrite. think about your vacations. >> the tony part of that. monte carlo too. >> higher than his unfavorables in virginia and wisconsin but his unfavorables are higher in colorado. 50% to 46%. >> mark halperin, what is -- what's going on? >> explain this. >> let's talk about colorado. we've gone over the map before, mark. you and i, a couple months back. and based on absolutely nothing but gut and history, i've always in a close election given the slight advantage in colorado to

mitt romney. it is a swing state, but why are the president's unfavorables higher in colorado? is it a west thing? what is it? >> well, i mean look, there's plenty of pockets of strength for the president in suburban voters, hispanic voters, young people, women in colorado, but it's still, as you said, ta is a purple state and you have plenty of people who don't like the health care plan who the economy has not done well for them in the president's time in office. every one of these states that is in this survey is up for grabs, maybe not -- maybe less wisconsin but the president's lead there is a lot smaller than last time. i don't think these poll numbers do anything to move us off where we thought we were before which is it's a close race, the president has a slight edge. governor romney has not cracked the code with women and not cracked the code with lower-income voters. and until and unless he does that, he's going to have trouble making up the small lead the

president has over him right now. >> the split between positive views and negative views of romney is close in virginia and wisconsin, leaning slightly negative, but 47% of voters see romney in a positive light in colorado compared to 42% who do not. when it comes to the direction of the economy, about a quarter of swing state voters believe the economy is improving. when asked who would do a better job handling the economy, mitt romney leads barack obama in colorado by 10%. 51 to 41%, the split within the margin of error in virginia and wisconsin. among voters making under $50,000, obama easily leads romney in colorado and virginia and wisconsin, leads by 21 points, 59 to 38. matching what mark was just saying. but when it comes to voters making $50,000 to $100,000 a year, mitt romney leads in all three states in wisconsin, he leads by 8%, 52 to 44. all right. let's take a look at a new

"washington post"/abc news poll. mitt romney is struggling to improve his image. according to the poll 40% of all voters hold a favorable opinion of rorm down 1 point from may but those who have an unfavorable view went up 4%. president obama's favorables went up slightly while the number of voters of a negative view of him went down to 43%. when it comes to independents only 37% have a positive opinion of romney while 50% have an unfavorable opinion of him. the numbers are practically the opposite for president obama with 53% of independents favorable to 40% unfavorable. >> michael steele, you ran the republican party, most successful election. >> yeah. >> i think in i'll term in the history. those look like democratic numbers before the 2010 landslide. >> isn't that amazing. >> romney is upside down in a big way. >> the script has completely

flipped when you look at the narrative going into and coming out of 2010, where the republicans really positioned themselves well to make the case to the country to fire nancy pelosi. >> right. >> and make those changes, how they dropped off that cliff so quickly into this particular abyss comes from the fact that there has not been a sound policy structure put in pla place on the economy, there's been, you know, the craziness in congress where like you just noted they've gone home while farmers are trying to figure out how to deal with the fall harvest and those realities now have turned and it's reflected in numbers for romney. that angst about congress, the concern about him and who he is, his narrative, all that's beginning to boil down into these negative numbers and for romney, he's got two shots before he gets out of the gate. the first is his v.p. nominee and the second is that convention speech on thursday night. >> yeah. >> he's got to move the meeter. >> to bring it back to the first

point, isn't this underscoring the perils of negative advertisement. you can bring your opponent down but that doesn't bring you necessarily up. one thing that stood out from "the washington post" poll, since september romney's favorable rating has gone up 7 but his unfavorable rating has gone up 18 points. >> who has run more negative campaign ads. >> obama has. he had more capital to spend on that point. he could take a hit more than romney who is relatively new. >> are you saying the negative campaigning against romney is working? >> in some respects i think the data supports that. in other respects romney is not benefiting from the fact that he's not running positive advertisements. >> is it just ads though? >> introduced himself fully to voters. >> maybe right now just ads because people aren't focused on the campaign, but they see all the 30-second ads that the obama team has run. >> where are the policy speeches? >> right. >> where are either candidate's focusing on specific issues and

laying them out, other than that in a campaign rally? where is the serious campaigning? >> there is none. >> we keep saying we're waiting for the debates and the debates are going to be all important i think. but up until now you're not hearing policy prescriptions. which is i think something that the people are hungering for. >> did obama do that four years ago? didn't he have a big speech on religion, a big speech on foreign policy, a big speech on race. i don't know. i -- >> but to your point, mika, those weren't necessarily policy prescriptions. they were more defensive. more in response to attacks about his religion or attacks about his race that he was responding to in very broad strokes and very well argued. but to andrea's point, you know, the economy then versus the economy now, even both those situations you didn't have that really hard charging policy. >> these campaigns, these candidates are so micro managed

in some respects. the press has very limited access to any of these people. all the events are incredibly staged, all the speeches are chipped off anything that could be controversial and you entsds up not making any errors but not any gains in the process. >> mark, it was hard to get to president obama even four years ago when he was senator obama on the campaign trail. they managed him very tightly. they're doing the same here. romney, of course, managed even more tightly. so, i don't think we're going to see those moments where we get a real look at who the candidates are. because it is so micro managed. >> i don't think we are and that means it's going to be up to the debates and both of their convention speeches and also the advertising. we've not seen the romney campaign's efforts to define mitt romney in a positive way very much so far and that's going to be part of what the convention is about and what their advertising is about and again to some extent from the beginning it's the same as it was at the beginning.

that's what this campaign is about. can mitt romney make himself an acceptable choice in the face of some troubling aspects of his biography for some voters and relentless efforts by harry reid and the president and others to define him in a negative way. that to me is still the campaign. >> and wasn't there a quote, mark, a couple months back that -- from the obama people who said in essence we're going to have to destroy mitt romney, and they're doing -- you look at all the 30-second ads and see where we are right now, romney minus 13 with independent voters, that strategy right now may be working? >> they think of him, a lot of voters think of him as a rich, out-of-touch guy, the image that david axelrod and robert gibbs has wanted to paint of him and he's not done enough from his point of view to counter akts that yet. on the other side you have the president and his economic record ta is a big drag. as i say there's lots of other variables but it boils down can romney emerge by election day as

acceptable. if you look at "the washington post"/abc poll he's still not there. still not seen as favorable enough by enough people to be in commanding position. he's in the game and that's, you know, that's where it dwifs him a chance with the big moments coming up and to start to try to define himself in a positive way which he hasn't done. >> explain to me, i think i know the answer, joe, four years ago we were dealing with a candidate who was laughed off the stage for being someone who was running as the first african-american potential candidate and he was not. he became president. he defied all odds. what are the troubling aspects of mitt romney's biography that mark halperin is talking about here that could be such stumbling blocks for him? i don't get it. >> i personally don't see troubling aspects of his biography. >> talk about who he is. >> the only thing i see troubling mitt romney has been reticent the three things that

defined his life, mormonism, talk about it. what it means to be to be a mormon and means to your family and how it helped you raise five incredible boys. number two, money. don't run away from money. if i were running for president, my wife had a million dollar horse, guess what? i would pummel about the head anybody that questioned how i spent the money that i made legally over the past four decades as steve rattner said, creating something brand new on wall street. really, so what are we going to do? i get it barack obama doesn't like how i spent my money. that's fine. david axelrod, that's fine. set up a new bureaucracy and you guys tell me, after i make all this money which you don't think i earned how i spend my money. but mitt romney won't do that. he goes, i don't even know -- does my wife have a horse in the olympics? i don't know when it is and where it is. >> yes, dear.

your wife has a horse. >> number two -- if my wife's horse is in the olympics i'm on the front row. and if somebody takes a picture of me i turn around and go dam right it's my wife's horse. the one that helped her recover from ms, the one that made her healthy again, you guys have a problem with that? because if you've got a problem with that you can move to other countries like move to venezuela because i'm sure they wouldn't have let me buy a million dollar horse down there. as long as i live in america, i'm going to buy whatever the hell i want to buy with my money, so long as i get it legally and i'm spending it legally. he won't do that. >> check off that. >> that's money. he's scared of money. >> number three, massachusetts. he has got to dive head first into his massachusetts record. >> that might complicate -- >> it's not. it's an impressive record. this guy governed with a legislature that was 85% democratic. i know you love president obama, but even you admit when the red

light is not on he doesn't know how to work with republicans. mitt romney, a republican, worked with the democratic legislature passed landmark legislation, unemployment went down, jobs increased. i think they had 4.5% unemployment. he has a great record in massachuset massachusetts, but he's scared to talk about it there's that health care thing and welfare restrictions thing where it gets a little complicated. >> it doesn't get complicated because here's the thing. the obama people come out today and they go, you know, he asked for waivers, but didn't ask for the type of waivers we're talking about in this debate. >> also said ted kennedy's tax returns. i'm just saying. >> that's fine. does that mean you stay away from an extraordinarily successful four years as governor of a state where 85% of legislature was run by the other party? >> isn't the problem that in order to win the primary he had

to -- >> the primary is over. >> i want to make my point. to win the primary he had to distance himself from a lot of what happened in massachusetts, including the health care, which was the signature piece of legislation. if you start talking about it you get into what is an actual problem for mitt romney which is there's this perception he will say anything or move to different positions to get political advancement. isn't that a real problem? >> it's not a real problem. we're in the big game now. we're in the big game now. and you start talking up your massachusetts record every day. andrea, if i were a republican governor in the state of massachusetts, and had to deal with those people and the legislature up there that even mike barnicle is troubled by as a democrat, you know what, i would let the world know what i was able to accomplish. you want somebody that can fix gridlock in washington, d.c., where nothing's happening? because the president doesn't like the republicans and the republicans don't like the president. get a guy that's been there

before. >> and the second point that you made about his faith, michael gerson wrote a column about this the other day in "the washington post," he should talk about who he is and not let the obama camp and its allies paint him in the way that they are, of course, negatively going to paint him. both sides throwing all this mud at each other. and he has not -- he's done one biography ad i can recall. i think it's even too late to be waiting until the convention to try to define him. >> this what is obama did, embraced the narrative of who he is, african-american, even had a speech on it when his back was up against the wall on some issues that really would have brought him down. let's not start that. >> he ran so fast from reverend wright. let's not talk about embracing that. >> there were people thrown under the bus. >> reverend wright thrown under the bus. reverend come here for a second, and i know you baptized my children, bus can you back up again. reverend can you step right back. >> joe, he -- the media on

exactly who he is and what his story is and it was brilliant. >> you know what -- >> why can't mitt romney -- >> if mitt romney doesn't defend his mormonism. >> yeah. >> i think that's shameful. >> i do -- >> call it a troubling aspect. >> the three ms, the massachusetts one, joe, is the most important of the three. because that is about governing. that is about leadership. that is about doing the things that the american people have seen not being done in washington over the last four years. >> they saw health care -- >> the legislative branch have come together rather in washington, fallen apart. in massachusetts he has a record there he can go and talk about governing and that's what people at the core of it -- yes mormonism is great story you want to talk about and how your faith shapes -- >> don't run from it. >> money, i made a lot of money and my wife has a million dollar horse. >> people like that. >> they do like that. >> let me tell you -- >> let me tell you how i governed in face of be stacles

from a legislature that did not want to do the right thing -- >> i don't see how this works. then he has to say this is what i did, i passed a health care law that looks like obama care, assault weapons ban -- >> hold on let me just -- passed an assault weapon ban, passed fees to close budget loopholes all things he now basically runs away from he has to say i worked in a bipartisan fashion to do x, y, and z and by the way i don't want to do x, y and z anymore. >> what you said, sam, is basically he can't make any argument about anything because that's what this -- the democrats is going to bring that stuff up. you have to talk about it. >> the alternative is what we have going right now. >> the alternative -- >> nothing. >> everybody shouting at each other. >> that's right. >> and nothing getting done. >> obamaloney, i thought that -- >> mark halperin, i think the governor has a compelling message to give on unemployment, on job growth, on bringing jobs

to massachusetts. but -- and again for those that are watching this isn't an ad for mitt romney. this is the table collectively scratching their head saying why isn't he talking about -- >> i've been asking this about the campaign. >> massachusetts not a troubling aspect of his biography, bain is not a troubling aspect if he uses it correctly. mormonism is not a troubling aspect. that's something to be proud of. >> mark halperin after what you said this morning about the troubling aspects of his biography i would be on the phone saying excuse me, what are you talking about. let's go through this and get on the air and say what is troubling about my biography and i would take you on. >> he had quotation marks around it. >> i said troubling for some voters. i didn't say it was necessarily troubling for me. >> see what? >> add another m that's the most important "m," although the three on your list are key, which is management. management. >> management. >> okay. >> that's i think the basis of his campaign he could come in and manage washington and the white house better than the president has and that he's got

a pretty good case on, whatever you think of his massachusetts legislative ro are or bain, his ability to manage people is pretty much unchallenged by people he's worked with in the business world. pretty remarkable record and has not sold that. >> you know, we -- we have been hearing, mika and i, privately from people that go into the romney orbit that aren't the biggest fans in the world. >> walk away absolutely stunned at his ability to manage people in a good way. >> we do keep hearing that. this guy knows how to run a staff, knows how to run an office but also say he's not a good natural politician. >> people around him, i don't get it. >> what's that? >> nothing. >> the lead people around him. >> i don't get it. we can do a better job right here and i don't want to. i'm just telling you. they're not very bright. >> mika's campaign manager. >> who he is -- >> it is a test of who he is. >> needs to get rid of some people. who are his strong policy people? do you remember the people that

reagan had around him. >> bright minds, challenging minds. >> 1980, george hfrmgts w. bush had around him in 1988. who does mitt romney have around him. >> the people that put him in a football stadium with two people sitting in the audience. who are those people? i don't know their names. >> that's a good question, brzezinski. i love when you feign ignorance. >> who are they? what is wrong with them? >> senior adviser for the obama campaign robert gibbs, he's going to join us on the set. we also have strategist rich gallon and nbc news political director homeless this week but we take him in. >> oh! >> with a warm embrace, the light's always on for chuck todd. up next, top republicans are split over the potential pick of paul ryan as mitt romney's running mate. why some are saying it would play right into the president's hand. that story in the politico playbook. first here's bill karins, he has a check on the forecast. what's it going to be looking like today out there?

>> good news not so much for the mid-atlantic and northeast but for the drought area where we've been watching this developing story over the last two months. cooler air finally heading your way. yesterday was another unbelievably hot day with 100 widespread. i think this is the hottest we're probably going to see maybe until next summer. here's why. big pattern change across the country through the northern plains into the great lakes over the next three to four days. some cool air from canada finally heading our way. it's also going to rain significantly in many areas of the great lakes, portions of the ohio valley and the northern plains. that rain could move into the new england area on saturday. as far as the drought area goes, rain in iowa, desperately where we need the rainfall from des moines to davenport and move through illinois and indiana, probably the worst areas for corn as we went through the growing season. still hot today in dallas but look at chicago, only 84 degrees for you. that is more like it. as for the east coast looks like a quiet day today but very, very humid. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." live look at the white house. with us now chief white house correspondent for politico mike allen, here with the morning playbook. the top story in the playbook, paul ryan. >> he's going camping, by the way. >> is he? so he's not -- he's like off the grid. >> he's going camping for a week, right? >> camping. >> it means if he sticks to that schedule he is off the grid for a week. >> is that in quotes? >> it just means that the timing of the announcement, if it were to be ryan, would indicate that it wouldn't be until a week after -- >> it tells me it is. >> mike allen? >> good morning. and he is off the grid. we're hearing -- it's interesting, we're hearing from a lot of the possible v.p.

contenders pretty much radio silence from romney headquarters in boston. they're in suspense too. this debate about whether ryan would be a good, smart, v.p. pick for romney, it mirrors a bigger debate about where the romney campaign is headed. it's a lot like joe's 3 ms, do you triple down on those? do you go bold or do what the romney campaign so far seems to be trying to do which is just run out the clock on obama. now ryan would be going bold and we're hearing that he is still under serious consideration. we hear that he has bonded with mitt romney on the campaign trail. they both like the sort of heavy policy papers, they have an easy rap port with each other s but it's a big risk. do you give the obama campaign a potentially double-edged blade? you have -- they can go right at his medicare plan and paul ryan is the face of a very unpopular

congress. do you want to take that risk? that's another wrap on rob portman of ohio. he, too, the face of washington. >> what are you hearing on the romney/ryan ticket? >> i think that it doesn't -- for some people may not meet the main standard that governor romney has rightly set, ready to be president from day one. paul ryan is a smart, talented guy with policy chops and would inspire a lot of people in the base of the party from a swing district, but i don't think you could argue with a straight face his lack of management experience makes him as qualified to be president from day one as rob portman. >> andrea? >> i think portman is probably the most qualified from the standpoint of biography, former cabinet now in the senate. ryan, i think you could argue is qualified if you make the case that the issue is the economy. and that makes him, perhaps, the most qualified. the other thing about it is, if mitt romney is not a politician, i think we've all agreed on that, he's a businessman,

manager, one of the virtues some would argue, well, this is a guy who could help him do things, big things, if he's elected. if he thinks he can be elected president he could choose a paul ryan because he thinks this is the guy who can really make me shake things up. >> it's not going to be paul ryan's budget people will vote for. they're going to vote for the thought process of the two. >> i will say, as far as -- >> looks good. >> as far as him being qualified my first week in dmungs 1995, january of 1995, there was a small group of us that were plotting a military coup to take over the government and -- we actually -- we had a small group we call ourselves the new federalists we were going to get rid of cabinet agencies, we were going to completely restructure washington and there was paul ryan, 22, 23-year-old kid, and i looked around and i said who's this guy. he said he's a smart guy. he can help us out. and paul at 2223, back 1995,

january of '95, paul at the center of the action telling us what we could do, what we couldn't do, how you would do this, move there. i think he's pretty darn qualified. i understand, mark, because he's been in the legislative branch, but few people have the type of experience that paul ryan's had, at least on the legislative side of things that said, i still think it's rob portman. with presidential candidates, mccain was a maverick, going to do a maverick choice, i can't believe it's not -- i can't believe it's not going to be tim pawlenty or rob portman. >> we'll see. politico's mike allen, thank you. >> have a good day. >> it would be interesting. willie geist is in london. what do you have coming up next, willie? >> well, mika, more gold for the gymnastics team, the women on the floor with aly raisman, disappointment again in the 100 meter hurdles for lolo jones and

a german weightlifter dropping 432 pounds on his own neck. that and more when we come back to london. [ donovan ] i hit a wall. and i thought "i can't do this, it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. [ female announcer ] weak, damaged hair needs new aveeno nourish+ strengthen.

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welcome back to "morning joe." i'm willie geist in london. the olympic flame burning for a few more days here. the closing ceremony on sunday. well, last night was another good one for the women's gymnastics team as they closed it out here in london. aly raisman winning gold in the floor exercise. she was the first american woman ever to win gold in that event. she leaves here with two gold medals and a bronze. the other coming in the team competition and she did it to the smooth sounds of hav hava nagila. gabby douglas struggled but leaves with two gold medals including the prestigious all around. remember aly raisman's parents become sort of international celebrities for the way they're cheering on aly. here they are last night. watch the guy behind aly's dad rick, telling him down in front. rick saying you got to be kidding me. that's my daughter out there. i'm not sitting down. good for them.

beach volleyball, we have a huge show down tonight all-american final, misty may-treanor and kerri walsh jennings, the legends of this sport looking for their third consecutive gold medal beat a chinese pair yesterday to get to the final, but the big upset came when americans jen kessy and april ross upset a brazilian team over there at horse gardens parade. tonight watch the all-american beach volleyball final. it will be the last time that great duo performance together. looking for three in a row. lolo jones, big disappointment in beijing. remember in the 100 meter hurdles led all wait and clipped the second to the last and finished seventh place, hoping for redemption here, did not get it yesterday. just off the podium finishing in fourth place, the americans, though, did take the silver medal and the bronze, dawn harper getting the silver for usa. lolo jones says she'll be back for another olympics and try again in rio if she's able to. tough video to watch, we'll show

it to you, german weight lifter matthias steiner, the gold medalist in beijing, dropping 432 pounds on his own neck. before we go any further we should tell you he's okay. he did go to the hospital for x-rays but he's all right. the ioc brought out a sheet to cover him while doctors looked at him, so the crowd couldn't see. dropping 432 on his own neck he's okay. china and the united states far ahead in the medal count, china leading the u.s. not by much. great britain coming on strong, every day another gold, 48 total medals and 22 gold. south korea turning in impressive games with 12 gold medals so far. tonight, what you want to watch on nbc prime time, see that all-american beach volleyball final between the two-time gold medalists and upstarts april ross and jennifer kessy. in prime time, sanya

richards-ross, allyson felix and carmelita jeter face a tough field in the 200 women's final. nbc sports network, catch the dream team, taking on australia in the first game of the single elimination knockout round. that's it from london. up next, send it back to washington for mika's must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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when mitt romney and bain closed the plant i lost my health care. and my family lost their health care. and a short time after that, my wife became ill. i don't know how long she was sick. and i think maybe she didn't say anything because shenew that we couldn't afford the insurance. and then one day she became ill and i took her up to the jackson county hospital and admitted her for pneumonia and they found the cancer and by then it was stage 4, nothing they could do for her. she passed away in 22 days. i do not think mitt romney realizes what he's done to anyone and furthermore, i do not think mitt romney is concerned. >> priorities usa action is responsible for the content of this advertising. >> wow. >> welcome back. 46 past the hour. that was a new ad from the pro obama super pac priorities usa action. part of a $20 million campaign

attacking mitt romney's background in private equity. if the men in the ad looks familiar because he also starred in a separate obama campaign ad in may that also focused on bain capital's closure of gst steele, a plant in kansas city. >> sam stein, i mean that -- it's such a nasty, nasty ad, saying my wife is dead and mitt romney doesn't care and suggesting it's his fault. the ad's just -- it's just outrageous. explain. i saw you talk about this on hardball last night. >> let's establish the story is terrible, tragic, awful. >> awful. >> it is awful. >> and, you know, it's just -- it's a very difficult leap. i don't understand how you can make the leap that this woman died because of the plant closure, because in -- people should factor this, she died in 2006, the plant closed in 2001

or -- romney has kwibbleed over whether he was at bain at the time, we can get into that, but she had insurance through her own employer after the plant closed. there's really no direct correlation. >> no connection. >> and such a reach. i get that this is politics and politics -- this is like so beyond what we need to discuss and it just goes to show you they're trying very desperately to turn a perceived strength which is his time at bain to something he doesn't want to talk about, this just i think takes it too far. >> mark halperin, it is such an over reach, a wild overreach and it's factually inaccurate to suggest that mitt romney shut down the plant, she got fired and then didn't have health insurance because of it. if you follow the fact pattern sam gave us. >> to condemn this ad as way over the line is to not to say that the republicans aren't doing things way over the line either. this is about as low as either

side has gone and i think the people who made it are probably privately remorseless and they're publicly remowersless to be sure. it's a despicable ad. doesn't mean republicans aren't doing things over the line too. i'm stunned that they would make that ad. now, i'm not sure that ad is airing. it's a 60-second spot. i have yet to find any media buyer who tells me that ad is on the air. nonetheless for the fact that they made that ad accusing mitt romney of causing the woman's death, is as low as either side has gotten in the race as best as i can tell. >> give me an example of a romney ad or somebody connected closely with romney through third-party attack that reaches this level of accusing the president of the death of a loved one? yeah. the ads are bad on both sides. i'm trying to think what's the lowest dirtiest republican ad. i think this one sort of wins by

a landslide right now. can you think of a republican ad equally offensive. >> using the measure of accusing somebody to be responsible for another human's death no the republicans haven't done that yet. they've done plenty of things distortions of the facts and using commercials in a way that are negative and manipulative but they've not accused the president of killing anyone yet. >> andrea, seriously, every day, every day we come on to this set and every day we walk off of this set and guests and members of congress shake their heads and say i just want this campaign to be over. >> stop it. end it. >> here we are, august 8th, and -- >> i love politics. i think as much as anyone. it's a passion. it's -- it's fun. it's important. it combines everything that i love about journalism and what we do and this is the worst

campaign i've ever seen. i mean, it's -- you almost want to say enough already let's just go watch the nationals -- >> kind of need a shower. >> plow ahead and get into the world series. >> that's a lot coming from you, andrea. that's really sad. >> really sad. >> still ahead senior adviser to the obama campaign robert gibbs joins us on set. more "morning joe" in just a moment. [ thunk ] sweet! [ male announcer ] the solid thunk of the door on the volkswagen jetta. thanks, mister! [ meow ] it's quality you can hear and feel.

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while romney was ceo of the company bain bought a telephone directory company from italy's government which it resold for 25 times as much. >> how did the italians feel about this deal? >> one company share hoelder who opposed the deal says, quote, the government got ripped off. it was the beginning of the destruction of italian industry. >> the republican candidate seen as a, quote, persona nongrada there. >> wow. mitt romney's business practices are too shady for italy. italy. a country where the prime minister, the head of the country's largest media conglomerate and the host of their finest bunga bunga

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hmm, it says here that cheerios helps lower cholesterol as part of a heart healthy diet. that's true. ...but you still have to go to the gym. ♪ the one and only, cheerios he'd ask the middle class to pay more in taxes so that she could give another $250,000 --

he could give another $250,000 tax cut to people making -- it's like robinhood in reverse. it's romneyhood. >> we've been watching the president say a lot of things about me and about my policies and they're just not right. and if i were to coin a term it would be obamaloney. he's serving up a dish which is simply in contradiction of the truth and it relates to everything from how i'm going to help the middle class to tax policy. he's simply saying things that are not accurate. >> lordy. welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. washington, d.c. looking mighty fine this summer morning. are you all right there? >> doing great. >> good. >> michael steele and -- >> fumbling. >> sam stein with us in washington. along with mark halperin in new york and joining us on set -- >> this is huge.

>> obama campaign and former white house press secretary, robert gibbs. >> i got to say, i was very impressed, mika, that people in the control room remembered the old brother gibbs joke, staying alive. walking on playing the bee gees. >> you got to hear a little bit of begys. how is auburn going to be this year? >> joe, we'll under promise and over perform. the boys ready and going to have a good year. >> are you going down to games? >> i will sneak down to games. >> even this fall. >> the best thing i ever did was get my son interested in it and then take him to a game and sort of guarantees now can't let my son down. >> a good parent. good parenting skills, right. >> i have an 8-year-old girl kate that turns 9 today. happy birthday, kate. >> so awesome. >> i think i need to buy her a set of golf clubs for her birthday. >> exactly. >> get her out on the golf course. >> that's what has to be done.

>> just the responsibleness. >> we have been bemoaning for some time, not just us, david brooks, people on the left, the right, are complaining about this campaign that it's joyless, a campaign about nothing. tell us what we're missing? >> i think this is -- i think this is a, a big campaign, about very big issues we and we have a very big choice to make. we're going to figure out how we're going to move this economy forward, make some huge decisions on budget and tax policy. nothing could be more fundamental and more important as we go forward. i think we tend to get distracted by small things, but i don't think there's any doubt that issues and the choice in this campaign couldn't -- >> boil it down. for an independent voter that it's going to give you 15 seconds, what's the biggest choice between mitt romney and barack obama? >> i think how we're going to move this economy forward. mitt romney thinks we move this economy forward by showering millionaires and billionaires with more and more tax cuts and

hope it trickles down. barack obama wants to protect the middle class that are playing by the rules and acting responsibly and give them a shot at the american dream. >> and so -- >> i need -- >> that was good, about 20 seconds. >> i'm an independent voter, i don't -- i'm making $55,000, $60,000, but i dream one day of having my own small business and making a couple hundred thousand, $250,000, $300,000 and i'm skeptical about raising taxes on people making $250,000 and up. tell me how does that grow our economy over the next four years? >> look, if you elect mitt romney to pay for his $5 trillion tax cut for people that make a million or a billion dollars, the guy making $55,000 is going to get an additional tax bill. it's mathematically impossible to do -- >> so i don't -- so mitt romney yeah, his wife has a million dollar horse, i'm focusing on barack obama now. >> whose wife -- >> i'm that guy that doesn't have a million dollar horse but

has a nice house. so the question is, how does barack obama's plan to raise taxes on people making 250 and above, how does that help? how does that grow the economy? >> well, what happens, joe, we're going to grow the economy by investing in, as you said, the middle class, by investing, cutting taxes on small business as the president has done, investing in education and infrastructure so that small business can hire the workers that they need to make the products that they want to sell, that they can get them to market, and quite frankly, in this country, as you do really well, you have to give back a little bit. that's what -- that's what's always happened. we're all in this together. >> right. >> so what's the push behind the tax increase? what do you say -- >> no, no -- the tax increase look -- >> you're letting it expire. >> we've had the bush tax cuts in place, the single largest driver to our debts and our

deficit over the past 12 years since they went into place. we understand we can't pay for everything. we've had this great debate -- >> why did the president turn the bush tax cuts into the obama tax cuts by extending them two more years. >> because republicans, the only way we could get a payroll tax cut and prevent middle class taxes from going up, republicans held the whole thing hostage for tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. we can't do that. we've had this great debate. washington is this interesting place where things happen and months later everybody has a panic attack. a couple weeks ago the panic attack was on defense sequestration and nobody thinks that we ought to have a defense budget that's decided by arbitrary numbers. okay. so i ask any republican, i'd ask chairman steele, do you want to make sure our men and women in afghanistan and iraq and around the world have the resources that they need or do you think that money is better spent on a tax cut for millionaires?

that's the choice. we understand we can't do everything. >> a very hard choice. >> is that the choice, sfll. >> sure. i mean unless you can figure out how to print more money. >> wait a minute. were the democrats like, you know, at disneyland during those discussions and weren't they a part of promoting this sequestration and arguing for these and backing away from. point two. >> let himnswer point one first. >> the sequestration was supposed to be the incentive for republicans and democrats to come together and we had a grand bargain and republicans walked away from the grand bargain because why did they walk away from the grand bargain? they don't think they put tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires above everything. >> because you wouldn't cut anything. >> we cut a trillion dollars in spending over the next ten years. there's spending cuts on the table. >> you cut a trillion and spent $5 trillion. we're $4 trillion in the hole. >> what's the biggest driver of

that hole? michael, the biggest driver of that hole is tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. >> those amount to how much each year? >> $80 billion. >> $110 billion for the wealthy. >> oh. >> 110. >> what's the sequestration for the first year? $110 billion. >> $110 billion gets you what? what's that going to get you? >> so michael -- >> $4 trillion hole what does 180 -- >> michael, let me -- hey, hold on a second. >> is your thing if we can't -- if we can't come up with $5 trillion we shouldn't do anything? i mean -- >> michael, let me explain here. >> hold on, robert. i got to explain something. >> we've got ground rules here. >> i need an education here. >> we've got ground rules. you're talking loud. a lot of physical -- >> interrupt. >> we don't interrupt on this show. >> oh! >> unless it's me. >> my bad. >> sam stein -- >> i didn't get that memo. >> i don't know how to jump into this conversation. >> you need to grab him. >> let me ask you a slightly different thing which is you

know, when obama ran, obviously, in 2008 the whole notion was post partisanship, change the type of politics we engage in. i think the record is pretty clear when he came to washington, he realized he had to be somewhat of an inside operator couldn't look at health care, a number of deals including the failure to get a grand bargain with john boehner, those were inside deals conducted in private. do you think that's contributing to what we see as sort of a general enthusiasm gap that he has with the base that people expected a little bit more out of him and got something that they didn't want? >> see, i honestly haven't seen a poll recently that demonstrates an enthusiasm gap. >> well -- i knew you were going to do that because you do that at the white house briefing. >> no. >> i don't make up polls at the white house briefing. i just say sam i don't think there's a poll that demonstrates that huge -- i think -- >> the other problem in general -- >> i think the base understands what's at stake in this election. the base understands that everything that's been done to get our economy out of the ditch and moving forward, an economy

that was losing 800,000 jobs a month to creating over the past 29 months 4.5 million private sector jobs that's all at stake in this election. >> what about my broader point, that post-partisanship he promised has gone amuck? >> i watched barack obama as a state senator and as a u.s. senator work with republicans that were very willing to work with him. i think when barack obama came to washington, republicans changed the way they worked with democrats. >> you can say the same -- george bush said the same thing. texas democrats talked about how great he was working with democrats. and then he came to washington and it stopped. >> well, look, let's take no child left behind. ted kennedy worked with pretty voferous worked with george bush who on the republican side has been their ted kennedy, who on their side that's going to reach across the aisle and work on something that makes sense for the american people? >> of course you could flip that

question. >> arlen specter crossed the aisle. >> mika -- >> we've been talking about a lot of things that i think are really interesting to us and a lot of people in the echo chamber and certainly in washington. but what about the independent voter out there or the republican who voted for obama or the democrat who's on the fence, this time around, looking at your president and you're in charge of the campaign, saying he didn't do it? he didn't move the meter? things are not going to be better tomorrow. why would i give him another chance? what is the answer to that? >> first of all, mika, this notion that somehow things are the same as they were when barack obama walked into the oval office on january 20th or january 21st, remember, we had an economy that was shrinking by 8.9%, we were losing 800,000 jobs. >> how do you tell that to these folks, these people who are hurting. i understand. i get it. you don't have to -- i think there's a sense out there of real desperation and of real concern.

how do you get through to people? >> i think people in real america understand it a lot better than people do in washington. people in america understood, we did not get into this mess from september 15th, 2008, when lehman collapsed until the end of the year. we had been with watching wages go down for years and years and years. people working harder and harder, not getting ahead. the price of everything from gas to college tuition going un. we didn't get into this mess, quite frankly, overnight. they understand that it took years to get into this mess and it's going to take years to get out of this mess. particularly when you come out of an economic downturn that's driven by a financial crisis, at a time in which not just the american economy has slowed, but the world economy has slowed, people understand that it's going to take us a while to get out of this mess. the question is, what direction are you going to take to get out of it? what is your economic theory to do that?

>> what is your economic theory to do that? >> to invest in the middle class and make sure they have a fair shot. >> what are you going to invest in? >> making sure we have good education. the best thing -- >> so -- >> are you going to spend more money? i'm talking about moving -- i'm talking about moving forward. >> with the interruption rule apply -- >> it doesn't apply to me. i made that perfectly clear 123450 you made that clear. >> i made that clear when i called him out for interrupting you. you've talked about the middle class. i'm saying specifically, hold on, robert, one of the great frustrations of everybody on this show and i'm trying to set up the question. >> sure. >> everybody's talking about james carville said it on the show, everybody is talking about the past, everybody is talking about the mistakes people have made in the past, nobody is talking specifically what changes over the next four years? what will president obama be able to pass on let's say education. >> how is he going to drive this thing? >> let's talk about education. if you look at the most recent jobs report two of the worst sectors were construction and

education jobs. does anybody think this country is going to maintain its economic superiority in the world by not investing in teachers, by having classrooms that are -- have one teacher for 29 or 30 kids? >> so -- >> let's give states some help in making sure that we hire more teachers. let's cut taxes for small business. here's a good example. expiring at the end of the year is what's called the production tax credit for the production of wind energy. okay. this was a tax credit written by chuck grassley, senior republican, conservative from iowa. it is predicated on not building something, but actually producing something. right. producing wind energy which reduces our dependence on foreign oil. many republicans in the congress want to extend it. many democrats in the congress want to extend it. mitt romney, wants to end it. it's actually caused some consternation at the base. >> you talked about education

and sounded like you're talking about sending more money back to the states. what's the president's proposal over the next four years? how much money does he want to give in education to the states? >> we've given -- the federal government provides on the magnitude of about 7% of what a state normally spends. obviously we can help deal with state budget crunches again by making sure we have enough money to retain teachers. we've got to do some work on no child left behind. we have, obviously, a lot of work to do to make sure that kids that work hard and qualify to go to college, can go to college and aren't prevented because they can't afford it. >> you know i love you. >> oh, god. >> this is not going to go well. >> despite the fact he's a war eagle. it does when you walk off this set sounds like a bunch of generalities. what have i heard from what robert has said that is going to transform this country over the past four years and make sure that we don't have a lost --

actually two decades with george w. bush and barack obama, if he's re-elected? what's the -- what's the big idea? because you've talked about education. yes need -- of course we all love education. i love sunshine and dafr foe dills. >> hold on. let's not gloss over the fact, there's a difference in this -- there's a difference in education. if everybody was -- if everybody looked at education and everybody looked at retaining teachers as sunshine and daffodils nobody would be talking about it. the reason we are talking about it, the recent unemployment report showed that states are letting teachers go, right? >> so the obama plan to save education is -- fill in the blank? what is it? >> hiring more teachers, making sure that kids can afford college. we shouldn't penalize kids that can qualify to go to college but somehow their parents can't afford it. >> how much money do we invest in education over the next four

years? >> i don't have the exact figure in front of me, but obviously there's -- any help the federal government can give the states is a needed and necessary and worth while investment to ensure that the american people are creating a work force for tomorrow. >> let's go to mark halperin, in washington, d.c. i think -- i mean he's in new york. >> that's where we are. >> oh, yeah. >> he's another crimson guy. just crimson. not a crimson tide guy. >> i'll preface my question by professing my love for you as joe did. >> i realize this is a technique. >> are you familiar -- >> i want you to ask me a question and say you hate me. >> it's a southern technique. >> like when a southern woman says isn't she sweet? going, mark. >> bless her heart. >> are you familiar with the new ad by the white house sanction super pac that has a man suggesting that governor romney was responsible for his wife's tragic death? >> i have seen some write-ups

about it. i have not seen the ad. i didn't watch tv last night. >> can we -- do we have the ad? let's run the ad. >> when mitt romney and bain closed the plant i lost my health care. and my family lost their health care. and a short time after that my wife became ill. i don't know how long she was sick. and i think maybe she didn't say anything because she knew that we couldn't afford the insurance. and then one day she became ill and i took her up to the jackson county hospital and admitted her for pneumonia and that's when they found the cancer and by then it was stage 4. there was nothing they could do for her. and she passed away in 22 days. i do not think mitt romney realizes what he's done to anyone. and i furthermore, do not think mitt romney is concerned. >> priorities usa action is responsible for the content of this advertising. >> robert, we all feel bad for that man and, obviously, it's a

heartfelt testimonial, but do you think that's an appropriate injection in this campaign of basically making the accusation that governor romney caused that woman's death? >> look, mark, i think as you said, this is an ad by an entity that's not controlled by the campaign. i certainly don't know the specifics of this man's case. i do think there are -- is a lot of concern in the country about what happens when people lose their jobs. we know that when they lose their jobs because most of where people get their health care provided for is in their jobs, they tend to also lose their health care. the people become one bad illness or sickness away from losing their house, from losing their life savings, losing their ability to send their children to college and it's a huge fear and anxiety for families all over the country. >> wow. >> go ahead. >> robert, with love and all due respect -- >> he loves you. >> oh, god. horrible.

>> talking like a politician too. >> that was -- >> next time i'm bringing my own group of people to say how much i love you guys. >> that was a long way of avoiding answering the question. >> well i don't know the specifics. i'm sorry. >> i understand the super pac -- >> i love you but i can't interrupt you. >> the super pac has no -- >> it's bill burton. come on. >> established legally that there's just no core rowlation -- >> but it's bill burns. >> the message is a little over the top. can't you admit that. >> i don't know the specifics of this person's case. there's huge anxiety in this country about losing health care. now there's huge anxiety in this country about how people pay for college. again, i don't know the specifics. i do know this, hold on, i know this, that you have a pattern of companies that were bought by bain. >> right. >> that were loaded up with debt, heavily leveraged, bain got paid. bain always got paid. bain got paid hundreds of millions of dollars in many

instances and these companies went bankrupt. and when a company goes bankrupt like that, somebody gives you a piece of paper that says you've lost your job, you've lost your health care, you've lost your retirement. do i think that's any way to build on the economy? >> she got another job and had health care from -- >> he lost his job and she was getting health care through his coverage but also had health care through her employer which followed after him -- >> she still had health care. >> and then, of course, her death occurred in 2006. we'll never get you to condemn the ad, i know. >> i don't know the specifics of the whole -- >> what specifics would you like to know before you can pass judgment on whether that's appropriate? >> ask away. >> i don't know the instances of what her health care covered, i don't know whether her insurance company approved every treatment. i don't -- again, i don't know any of the dealings with the insurance company. >> come on. it's a low blow. >> i don't like you very much, so that -- we'll make it -- >> does that make you feel better? >> you're the first person

that's been honest. >> ask a nice question now. >> to your point, robert, which is a fair point, you don't know the specifics but that ad when it is shown in my living room in the middle country, at 2:00 in the morning, or 5:00 in the afternoon, i don't know the specifics either and i'm watching the ad and i have a visceral reaction to the ad and to sam's point and to mark's point you have a visceral reaction to this ad. is it or is it not below the belt? >> two points, one, you said you're watching an ad at 2:00 in the morning is bizarre. >> in the swing state of maryland. >> that is not going to air. mark is right. he's been trying to track down where they're buying it. this was a creation for the cable news circuit. >> regardless of what it's created for. we're talking about the ad and trying to get a reaction from robert and avoid eed answering e question. >> it's not an obama ad. >> as everyone dusts off their white horse and get their footmen ready to put them on their white horse go through an

ad we know the romney campaign is entirely responsible for. right. there is a new ad out, that if you're watching at 2:00 in the morning or 2:00 in the afternoon, you would believe that barack obama has actually taken away the work requirement for welfare reform. do you think that's a factual ad? do you think that's a true ad? let me preface this by saying there is not an independent person that has looked at that ad, not one person that's looked at that ad, and said it's remotely substantially true. >> i will -- i will give you that, whether it's true or not true. but the difference between the romney ad and the ad that we're talking about from the obama not supported pac directly or whatever, is that it goes to a different level. it's a different kind of conversation when you're talking about -- >> i'm sorry. there's different levels of truth? >> but it's not a question of truth. it's a question of whether or not what you're saying here -- >> not a question of truth? >> in the obama ad is that mitt

romney was somehow responsible for the death of a human being as opposed to whether or not in his ad, obama's policy does what it says or doesn't? >> i'm trying -- i just want to make sure i understand -- >> there are gradations of truth. >> but there's a difference when you're talking about truth in the context of my killing your wife or my killing your policy. >> what rises up to erasing the work requirement in the welfare reform law? >> what's that? >> i sloonts have to explain it. are you making me explain the difference between a policy debate and a question that suggests that a candidate for president of the united states killed his wife? >> wait a minute. >> are you serious? for someone making me doing this. >> an ad showing during the olympics. sam said he can't find somebody -- >> it's not even an obama campaign ad. >> it's not an obama ad. i brought up bill burton's name. everybody know who bill is.

bill could not be any tighter than you and the white house. >> can i get you on the record that you're perfectly fine with an ad republicans said is untrue? >> i'm not standing here defending an ad. you are or saying -- >> you're playing upon shus pilot saying my hands are clean. i can -- i can do nothing on this ad that suggests mitt romney killed my wife. >> i love you seem to be adding to the discourse in our political debate labeling me pontius pilot. >> i'm not accusing you of killing anybody. >> i think that it is -- it is not surprising that you guys have decided there's differences in gradations of -- >> no. here's -- >> robert -- >> don't put words in my mouth. you asked me and i told you. i'm not defending mitt romney's ad. >> but let's play this out. is the ad untrue? >> i'm going to actually check and see. >> is there any truth to the charge that we are getting rid of work requirement for welfare

coverage? >> no. don't play the ad yet. i'm going to look at the ad. we haven't played the ad this morning or commented on the ad this morning. >> roll the ad. >> so you want to -- listen, you want to play an ad that you say is a lie. why would you want to do that? >> because i think as a great journalist in this country and somebody that i deeply admire and love -- >> you love me, don't you? >> i think it would be interesting for the republican -- former republican party chair to say an ad that a campaign correctly has control over, is -- >> and is airing. >> is factually wrong. substantially and factually wrong. >> let's be honest here, we've watched this pattern from the romney campaign. this weekend, they put out a statement that somehow barack obama wanted to prevent the military members from voting in ohio. reporters all over the country and reporters all over ohio asked the romney campaign can you point to one thing in a lawsuit that seeks to add extra early voting for everybody that's not in the military? can you point to one thing in

the lawsuit that demonstrates that the obama campaign would like to restrict military members from voting and the answer was no. >> can i guess what the answer was? >> no. >> that's my guess. mark halperin. >> robert, just as a general matter, because i know you don't control the content of the super pac ads from the campaign, if they do something you consider over the line, will you call them on it or is your posture we don't have control and don't comment on what they do? >> mark, look, i think people will decide whether it's factual, fact checkers will decide whether or not it's factual. i'm saying if the ad is not true, mark, then one, it's not going to be effective, and if there's an ad that's not true, it shouldn't be running. >> right. >> if you see something they do, you consider over the line you will call them on it publicly? >> look, i'm not going to make some broad policy on that. mark, one thing i'm not going to do is get involved in super pacs and decide that i need some lawyer to explain to me coordination. >> i want to make the point, robert's right on one sense, the

super pac ad is provocative so we talk about it. the romney campaign ad which i think has been established as misleading on welfare is airing in the swing states you talked about. there should be a punishment on both sides. and especially when it airs for you to spread mistruths or lies. >> i think there should be punishment -- >> let me help you out, robert. here's how it goes. robert? the obama ad that you are not responsible for, is a low blow. but let's look at an ad that's airing that's romney campaign put out which is a complete and utter lie. there you go. >> that's why i love mika. >> robert gibbs, thank you very much. >> still ahead -- >> you know it's a complete and utter lie. >> i'm telling you what he should be saying, to make his point. >> wait a minute. >> let me tell you this is what he's trying to do, run out the clock after saying we didn't look at the ad you want to look at the ad. >> i tried to run out the clock. what is this in ohio about military voting. not germane to any part of this conversation.

just because you're trying to kill the clock. you would accuse me of trying to kill the clock. nice move, robert. you can tell he's -- >> look forward to conventions and all the elections. still ahead, chuck todd and political strategist rich galen joins us from washington. robert gibbs, thank you so much. nice to see you. next, memories of vp stakes past, editor in chief, ron fournier with his take on who mitt romney may pick for his running mate and what the choice may mean for the race. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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[ shouting in japanese ] we work wherever you work. now, that's progressive. call or click today. fournier. it's 31 past the hour. remember that, they lied all day. >> do you remember that, mark halperin? are you still awake there? >> what's up? >> we got ron fournier, the best in the business, he was afraid to come in here after robert gibbs so physical, he said i felt like i'm about with ali

frazier of '71. we're about to talk about vp picks, but we were just remembering back we were at the democratic convention, you actually went on the faa website and figured out that sarah palin was flying out of alaska, going to ohio. >> that was incredible. >> at 6:02 a.m. on our show you basically broke the news it with you going to be palin and then the mccain people lied all day. >> yep. >> came up. it was a -- pretty crazy day that day. >> remember that? >> i do remember that. but i also remember 1992 competing against a younger ron fournier on who bill clinton would pick back in little rock where he had home court advantage. >> you did. let's bring in the editor and chief of the national journal group ron fournier. ron, this is always exciting stuff. and i remember a lot of reporters -- >> for about five of us dorks. >> it's exciting. >> a lot of people being angry that the mccain people spread as

many lies as they did around the pick. but it's always difficult to get the answer. you got lieberman right, correct? tell us about the process. >> well, mark had a nice piece yesterday that talked about how one thing you have to realize is campaigns control the entire narrative and if you take the process too seriously yourself too seriously, you get burned. lieberman is a good example where they used us. going into the republican convention i start talking to gore aides saying it would be cool if i got the story what short list was in the middle of their convention let's mess up one of their days, on monday or tuesday i get a call from can't say who gave me the full list and enough detail and color and i was able to write an authoritative list, here is the short list. wasn't great reporting. i was the vessel to screw up the republican convention. >> but a great story and who's big enough to get it in every paper. >> you see that already, drudge

posting it's going to be petraeus, and drudge posting it's going to be rice. it's all part of trying to use the process to upset the narrative a little bit. >> given your intuitive knowledge and experience, the fact that paul ryan is going camping, does that tell you that he's in there? >> it means absolutely nothing. and it might mean everything. >> exactly. >> mika, hike up the hill and -- >> i don't know what's happening. >> you have to keep that in mind. >> any gut? we're just asking as a person, not as a reporter? does it seem -- let me ask you this way, with all of your experience, afterwards, do you look back and you say, you know what, that did make a lot of sense that a guy like mccain would take a wild chance and that a guy like gore would keep it more in the middle of the road? >> yeah. >> is the past as pro logged rule in effect for the vp picks. >> i heard you talking about the

other day, the last time a vp helped win a state was johnson at the end of the day, it doesn't make much of a difference, maybe a percentage point. only thing it is it is a window into the man or woman's decision-making process. we did get an idea of the kind of campaign and president john mccain would be given the way he handled that selection. not very well. it also, obviously, could be important because god forbid whoever becomes the vice president could become the president. everything else is just a game. i've played in the game, i'm very kettive, i want to get the stuff first but it doesn't matter who gets it five minutes before anybody else. >> but it doesn't matter, stop that! >> to me, hey -- >> this little olympic gold medal around my neck, it doesn't mean anything. >> nothing. >> wouldn't let me play short stop for the tigers. >> yeah. >> but it's a game. >> romney's so buttoned up you're probably not going to get and other reporters aren't going to get the short lists, are they? >> only if they think tackically it makes sense.

i would like to make a pitch to the romney campaign -- >> let's do it right now. >> would help take away the narrative for today. >> "the huffington post" would be a remarkable decision. >> think about it, strange and shortsided. >> i doubt it will leak unless they want it to leak. >> yeah. do you have -- from your sources, do you have a sense when they talk about narrowing it down to portman and pawlenty and ryan, do you take that at face value or could we be shocked by a chris christie? >> i think christie is a real possibility because he's not being mentioned. no one has written an authoritative story that says i have three sources in the campaign and this is the short list. no one knows what the short list is. that should unsettle all of us. >> any guess on the timing? >> conventional wisdom is usually wrong. after the olympics. you don't want to compete with it. >> let me see what we've learned here. no one knows about the short

list and should unsettle all of us. >> gives us a much better guess. >> isn't this the problem with vp stakes reporting? little parcels of information -- >> this is not -- >> what? >> this is not a problem. this is americans need to understand, exactly what he's saying is true. that you'll have people hyping these stories for three, four weeks, to try to drive ratings and at the end of the day, you only know what the campaign wants you to know. >> and we spend so much time and energy focusing on something that is -- ron's right, it will be a two second exclusive in the age of twitter. >> your conversation at the last segment is more relevant. what we should be spending time on what is your record, plan, how are you going to turn this country around? >> on that point i think it's -- do people really care at this stage of this process looking at everything in total, does this vp stakes really matter to your readers, to the average voter out there, or are they really

more concerned about what happens in the next three or four months to define the rest of this economy? is it competing like this or is this kind of like just folks are juiced up and want to know. >> to regular voters it's buzzing in their ears. it has some importance because it will be the second most important person in the world. where are your tax returns? robert gibbs, where is the president's plan for saving the country? why are we being so negative with the advertisements. why are both sides lying. >> tells you about who mitt romney is in terms of who he chooses and i don't think voters know a lot. >> once we get good reporting on how and why he chose it yeah. >> hi can go one of two directions. portman, pawlenty route, very romney, or if he goes with chris christie or a paul ryan -- >> i'm -- >> he's getting out of his comfort zone and i can say as a conservative that has felt betrayed by my party for about 15 years now.

>> little good clarity. >> pick paul ryan or chris christie, then at least it says to me, okay, you're not going to pass a $7 trillion medicare or at least you're looking back at what we republicans have done and you say i want to turn the page. >> yeah. >> in that sense it does, a selection can be at least symbolic. >> certainly. and the way he goes about doing it will tell us the decisions he'll make. >> ron fournier, thank you so much. we'll be right back. >> sorry there wasn't as much hand holding. ♪ [music plays] ♪ [music plays] ♪ [music plays] like a squirrel stashes nuts, you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® liquid gels.

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beautiful shot of new york. happy august 8th. welcome back to "morning joe." a special day, mika. >> oh, yes. >> kate scarborough turns 9 years old today. >> happy birthday, kate. >> she is the sunshine of my life. >> perfect. >> she is an extraordinary girl. isn't it amazing? she's an amazing girl. >> you need to see her and bring her so many presents. >> mark halperin will tell her what an amazing girl she is. happy birthday, kate. can't wait to see you. see what the forecast is like on kate scarborough's birthday with bill karins. >> that's like a hello kitty party or -- >> hey, you know, that's like a hey, bill, do your job and give us the forecast.

it's a barbie party! >> you can have a hello kitty party if you want to. but you keep that to yourself. >> i think kate's going to stick with barbie. >> lunch box. >> i got to learn those lessons as my kids get older. good morning. everybody has been asking me what happened to ernesto, became a hurricane last night, headed into mexico. this will be a tropical storm boths eshg them over the next two or three days. minimal amount of damage out there. as far as the good news for today, weather change across the northern plains. it's about time too. rain this morning moving through periods of iowa and northern missouri. this is welcomed rainfall heading for illinois later on today. as far as the forecast goes, we're knocking down the temperatures ever so slowly. finally done with the 100s from kansas city to st. louis. still unbelievably hot from dallas to oklahoma city. your relief will come thursday into friday. people will be dancing in the streets in st. louis come friday and saturday as temperatures will only be in the 80s for the first time since spring. what a joy that will be.

up next here on "morning joe," the fight for the freshmen class. are the house republicans in danger of losing control of the snous we'll talk to the hill's managing editor coming up next live on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms,

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oh, thank you. but, with the capital one venture card... you can fly any airline, any flight, any time. double miles you can actually use. what's in your wallet? alec jr? it was a gift. with us now the managing editor of "the hill" bob, an old friend of ours. this morning's "the hill" front page, gop leaders work hard to save the freshman class. there are endangered freshmen. >> absolutely. >> start with the list, joe walsh from illinois at the top of the list, alan west not far behind. >> joe walsh, redistricting in illinois facing tammy duckworth. the chances of walsh getting re-elected are very, very slim. but overall --

>> he's had some self-inflicted wounds. >> he's dramatic. >> he is dramatic. what about alan west, also a dramatic guy. >> yeah. >> is he in trouble? >> i think he's a lot safer. democrats definitely are targeting him, but he has a lot of money in the bank. he's a skilled politician and a darling of the right. that's why he's getting all the money. >> yes, he is. scott tipton out of colorado, trouble? >> yeah. he has to worry about his re-election race. house republican leaders have been going to colorado helping him out and that's really -- i mean john boehner we know loves to golf but not golfed that much in august. >> oh, my goodness. >> you can't assume anything. >> we always have after these huge swing elections and, of course, volatile, you can't assume anything. >> and in 2010, under the leadership of michael steele, the republicans picked up an extraordinary number of house seats that always seems two years later to lead to a washout. will the tide go back out far enough to make nancy pelosi

speaker again? >> no, i don't think so. >> does anybody on the hill believe that? >> well, nancy pelosi and steny hoyer do. >> other than those two? >> no. if you have to look back to 1964, and that was a big election, that the president in power gained more than 25 seats. that's what nancy pelosi needs. she needs 25 seats. and if she's going to become speaker again, she may need 35 seats, and democrats are not going to vote for her. >> that is going to be about as hard as scott brown picking up those 300,000 obama voters that he has to have to win up in massachusetts. >> he's going to have a hard time, i think. >> he is going to have a hard time, unfortunately. sam stein? >> listen, the other element to the story is that if you look at any of these opinion polls, the republican brand still trails the democratic brand. and that's going to have an effect in these swing states, just because people are associating different platforms and not voting on the candidates themselves. my question is, to what extent do you factor this into your assessment of the house races? are republican leaders worried about the party brand, or are they pretty much confident that,

you know, they're on solid ground? >> oh, no, sam, i think you have to be worried if you look at those polls. they said after they won the majority, they're going to have to earn more of it back. and the polls show that the brand is still damaged. but still, democrats have a long way to go to get to 25. and that's why been there's been a lot of speculation that this could be nancy pelosi's last term. >> and it sure is easier, mika, to run against an incumbent president of the other party if you're running in the legislative branch. >> yes. >> no doubt about it. >> mark halperin in new york has a question. >> bob, what's the difference in the coordination and the feelings of personal closeness between the romney campaign and the house republicans and the president's re-election and the democrats in the house? >> i think the romney campaign and house republican leaders are coordinating pretty closely. we saw that in the student loan bill. john boehner didn't want to move that bill. romney came out in support of it, boehner scheduled a vote. there are a lot of house democrats that are not really enamored with the president, but i think they've been coming together, they know what's at

stake. but i think the coordination between romney and congressional republicans is fairly strong. >> they're actually closer. isn't that fascinating? >> isn't it? it is. >> you go to the hill and talk to democrats, as we do an awful lot on the hill, there seems to be a real frustration with the obama white house. how many times, mika, did we hear in all the meetings we had over the past year of democrats saying, they don't get it. >> yeah. >> there was one democrat i talked to privately who said, i can't stand them. this is a democrat talking about the president. he just doesn't call them. >> he doesn't. and the only reason we bring that up is, like you said, the coordination is so critical. bill clinton -- >> a lot of disconnects. >> but i think earlier to your three ms, that management, that massachusetts piece, connecting with the legislature, romney knows how to do that and he's beginning to put his emphasis on the house republicans and the senate republicans in terms of what he would like to see done

when he becomes president, he has to translate that into working -- >> all right, "the hill's" bob cusack. >> more to come in just a moment. ♪ these are the days [ male announcer ] 6 years old. then 7. going on 11. in the blink of an eye, they're all grown up. marie callender's homemade tastes are another great reason to sit down and savor every last moment. ♪ because time flies... right before your eyes. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

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looking ahead to tomorrow,, newt gingrich is our guest on "morning joe." and later, hillary clinton hits

the dance floor in south africa. this isn't the first time she's let loose on a diplomatic mission abroad. she's so awesome. up next, who's got the edge in three key battlegrounds. we'll show you brand-new polls on the presidential race next on "morning joe." sometimes, i feel like it's me against my hair. [ female announcer ] weak, damaged hair needs new aveeno nourish+ strengthen. active naturals wheat formulas restore strength for up to 90% less breakage in three washes. for strong, healthy hair with life, new aveeno nourish+ strengthen.

we've been watching the president say a lot of things about me and about my policies. and they're just not right. and if i were to coin a term, it

would be obamaloney. he's serving a dish which is simply in contradiction to the truth. and it relates to everything from how i'm going to help the middle class to tax policy. he's simply saying things that are not accurate. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everybody, as you take a live look at washington, d.c. back with us on set here in washington, sam stein, michael steele, andrea mitchell, and along with mark halperin in new york, we have willie geist in london from the olympics. >> i mean, seriously, willy, david brooks this past week wrote a column talking about what a stupid campaign this is. mika, a few weeks ago was saying it's a seinfeld campaign, a campaign about nothing. and evan thomas yesterday, a guy we all like and respect and has been covering this, said these

campaigns are pathetic. and i mean, seriously? romney hood. obamaloney. is this like fourth grade student council? these guys are jokes! >> i was listening to that sound bite coming in, obamaloney, and i turned to dana, our producer, and i said, i think we're just going to stay here. i can't come back into that. it's even worse from a difference. >> it doesn't work. it would be a lot more exciting just to try to work the zip wire with boris johnson, the mayor of london. this really is pathetic, mika. >> it is pathetic. and there are some new polls out that show that this is going to be a long haul. >> seriously? >> a really long haul. >> we were talking to a top political person yesterday. why didn't somebody run as an independent this year? >> oh, that was an interesting conversation you guys were having. >> this was the year for an

independent to run. >> is it just us? >> no, it's not. i think it's an accurate reflection of what's going on in the country. and you're right, joe, this is a fourth grade student council election run amok at this point. and the reality of it is, the people -- >> with $1 billion on both sides. >> with $1 billion on both sides. and that's the frightening part. because none of this money will have anything to do with actually advancing, you know, positions about the future of the country, the direction we need to go, and the philosophical, and i think legitimate philosophical differences between both parties that have gotten obscured by obamaloney. >> may i just -- it's not fourth grade, it's kindergarten. what fourth graders would behave this badly? it is really not just annoying, but now it is corrosive to everything that needs to be done in this country. we have a drought. farmers desperate. and congress went home. and that's -- and both parties

to blame. >> and mark halperin, what do the campaigns think about the fact that they are viewed and their messages are viewed as essentially meaningless. whether -- just, that they're taking politics to the lowest common denominator. >> i thought yesterday was the low point of what has been a pretty low campaign so far. both sides did things that were borderline outrageous or over the line into outrageous. you've got campaigns here being run by people like stork stevens and matt roads for the publics, and robert gibbs and others for the president, who have not only run negative campaigns in the past, but reject the notion that they don't work. in fact, they believe that they do work. so i don't see a stop to this. i think these are two serious candidates. the irony is, these are two of the more serious-oriented policy candidates who have run in my

career, but i don't see any stop to it, because both sides think it's to their advantage. >> let's take a look at the latest quinnipiac, "new york times," cbs polls of key battleground states that show a narrow split between president obama and mitt romney. romney leads the president 50-45% in colorado. but president obama leads by 4% in virginia and 6% in wisconsin. >> let's just look at those three numbers. sam stein, first of all, colorado, the west, right now seeming to break romney's way. virginia and wisconsin still close, but breaking the president's way. any surprises there for you? >> colorado seems a little bit surprising, i guess, just because there's been other polling that has shown obama with a comfortable or slightly slimmish lead. but the general rule has been that the swing states have been more favorable to the president than the country at large. i think these data points hold that up. and if that's the case, you could very well end up in a

situation where obama loses the national vote, but actually gains the electoral vote and wins the election, and that would be pretty amazing coming so closely after bush v. gore. >> politico announces that the president's campaign has been burning through cash, spending money in swing states. do those numbers start going the other way when romney starts burning through an even bigger campaign chest? >> that's what i think's likely to happen. and the president leaving the for two days today in colorado. and you can track where these candidates are going. look at the romney bus tour, going through virginia and then ending up in ohio. >> if you live in the swing states, mika, it's ugly. thank god that you summer and winter in the south of france. i don't think you're -- not a lot. there's some ex-pats, but i don't think you're going to see these 30-second ads where you are. >> it's unbelievable.

beyond a hypocrite. think about your vacations. >> by the way, the tony part of me said that. >> president obama's unfavorables are higher in virginia and wisconsin, but his unfavorables are higher in colorado, 50% to 46%. >> mark halperin, what's going on? >> yeah, explain this. >> let's talk about colorado. we've gone over the map before, mark, you and i, a couple of months back, and based on absolutely nothing but gut and history, i've always in a close election given the slight advantage in colorado to mitt romney. it is a swing state, but why are the president's unfavorables higher in colorado? is it a west thing? what is it? >> well, i mean, look, there's plenty of pockets of strength for the president in suburban voters, hispanic voters, women, young people in colorado, but as you said, it's a purple state and you've got plenty of people who don't like the health care plan, who the economy has not

done well for them in the president's time in office. every one of these states that is in this survey is up for grabs. maybe not -- maybe less wisconsin, but the president's lead there is a lot smaller than last time. i don't think these poll numbers do anything to move us off where we thought we were before, which is, it's a close race, the president's got a slight edge. governor romney has not cracked the code with women and he's not cracked the code with lower-income voters. and until and unless he does that, he's going to have trouble making up the small lead the president has over him right now. >> the split between positive views and negative views of romney is close in virginia and wisconsin, leaning slightly negative. but 47% of voters see romney in a positive light in colorado compared to 47% who do not. when it comes to the direction of the economy, about a quarter of swing state voters believe the economy is improving. when asked who would do a better job handling the economy, mitt

romney leads barack obama in colorado by 10%. 51 to 41, the split is within the margin of error in virginia and wisconsin. among voters making under $50,000, obama easily leads romney in colorado and virginia and wisconsin. he leads by 21 points, 59 to 38, match whing what mark was just saying. but when it comes to voters making $50,000 to $100,000 a year, obama leads in all three states, in wisconsin, 52 to 44. and a new "washington post"/abc poll chose mitt romney is struggling to improve his image, especially among independent voters. according to the poll, 40% of all voters hold a favorable opinion of romney, down one point since may, but those with an unfavorable view went up 1%. president obama's numbers went up slightly. when it comes to independents,

only 37% have a positive opinion of romney, while 50% have an unfavorable opinion of him. the numbers are practically the opposite for president obama, with 53% of independents, favorable to 40% unfavorable. >> michael steele, you ran the republican party. most successful election, i think, in offterm in the history. does look like democratic numbers before the 2010 landslide. >> isn't that amazing? >> romney is upside down in a big way. >> when you look at the narrative coming into and going out of 2010, where the republicans really positioned themselves well to make the case to the country to fire nancy pelosi and to make those kind of changes, how they dropped off that cliff so quickly into this particular abyss really comes from the fact that there's not been a sound policy structure put in place on the economy. there's been the craziness in congress, where like you just

noted, you've gone home while farmers are trying to figure out how to deal with the fall harvest. so those realities now have turned and it's reflected in the numbers for romney. that angst about congress, that concern about him and who he is, his narrative. all of that's now beginning to boil down into these negative numbers. and for romney, he's got who shots before he gets out of the gate. the first is his vp nominee, and the second is that convention speech on thursday night. >> he's just got to move the meter. >> but to bring it back to the first point, isn't it sort of underscoring the perils of negative advertising? you can bring your opponent down, but that doesn't necessarily bring you up. and one thing that stood out from that "washington post" poll is that since september, romney's favorability rating has gone up seven, but his unfavorability rating has gone up 18 points. >> who's one more negative campaign ads? >> obama has, but he had more to spend on that point.

people knew who he was. >> so are you saying the negative campaigning against romney is really working? >> no some respects, i think the data supports that. and in other respects, i think romney's not benefiting from the fact that he's not running positive advertisements, biographical advertisements on himself. i don't think he's fully introduced himselves to voters. >> it may be, right now, andrea, just ads, because people aren't focused on the campaign, but they see all the 30-succeed ads that the obama team's run. >> where are the policy speeches? >> right. >> where either candidates focusing on specific issues and laying them out, other than in a campaign rally? but where is the serious campaigning? we keep saying, we're waiting for the debates and the debates are going to be all-important, i think. but up until now, you're not hearing policy prescriptions, which i think is something people are really hungering for. >> and didn't obama do that four years ago? didn't he have a big speech on religion?

a big speech on foreign policy, a big speech on race. i don't know. i agree. >> but to your point, those weren't necessarily policy prescriptions. they were more defensive. it was more in response to attacks about his religion or attacks about his race that he was responding to, in very broad strokes. and very well argued. but to andrea's point, the economy then versus the economy now, even both those situations, you didn't have that really hard-charging policy -- >> but part of it is these candidates have so micromanaged in some respects. the press has very limited access to all of these people. all these events are incredibly staged, all these speeches are tripped off anything that could be controversial. and you end up not making any errors, but not any gains. >> and it was hard to get to president obama four years ago when he was senator obama on the campaign trail. they managed him very tightly and doing the same here. and romney, of course, managed even more tightly.

so, i don't think we're going to -- i don't think we're going to see those moments where we get a real look at who the candidates are. because it is so micromanaged. >> well, i don't think we are, and that means it's going to be up to the debates in both of their convention speeches and all the advertising. we've not seen the romney campaign's efforts to define mitt romney in a positive way very much so far, and that's going to be part of what the convention's about. and it's going to be part of what their advertising's amount. and at some extent, this is what this campaign is about. can mitt romney make himself an acceptable choice in the face of some troubling aspects of his biography for some voters and relentless efforts by harry reid and the president and others to gain him in a negative way. that, to me, is still the campaign. >> and wasn't there a quote, mark, a couple months back from the obama people who said, in essence we're going to have to destroy mitt romney? and they're doing -- you look at all the 30-seconds ads and see

where we are right now, romney's minus 13 with independent voters. that strategy right now may be working. >> well, they think of him -- a lot of voters think of him as a rich, out-of-touch guy. that's the exact imagine that david axelrod and robert gibbs and others have wanted to paint of him from the beginning, and he's not done enough from his point of view to counteract that yet, but on the other side, you still have the president and his economic record, and that is a pig drag. as i say, there's lots of other variables, but to me it all boils down to, can romney emerge by election day as acceptable, and if you look at that "washington post"/abc poll, he's still not there. he's still not seen as favorable enough by enough people to be in a commanding position, but he's in the game, and that's, you know, that's where it gives him a chance with these big moments can coming , and a chance to start to try to define himself in a positive way, which he hasn't really done. >> so explain to me -- i think i know the answer, joe. but four years ago we were dealing with a candidate who was

laughed off the stage for being someone who was running as the first african-american potential presidential candidate. and he was not. he became president. he defied all odds. what are the troubling aspects of mitt romney's biography that mark halperin is talking about here that could be such stumbling blocks for him? i don't get it. >> i personally don't see troubling aspects of the biography. >> i feel like he needs to talk about who he is. >> the only thick i see troubling, that mitt romney has been reticent to talk about the three ms that defined his life. mormon hicism mormonism. talk about it. >> thank you. >> how it's inspired you to to be who you are, and raise your family, and raise five incredible boys. number two, money. if i were running for president and my wife had a $1 million horse, i would pummeled about the head anybody who questioned how i spent the money i made

legally over the past four decades. as steve rattner said, creating something brand-new on wall street. i would say, oh, really, so what are we going to do? oh, i get it, barack obama doesn't like how i spend my money, that's fine. and david axelrod and robert gibbs don't like how i -- fine. why don't we set up a new bureaucracy. why don't you guys tell me how i make my money. but mitt romney doesn't do that. he goes, i don't even know, does my wife have a horse in the olympics? oh, i don't know who it is and where it is. wrong! if my wife's horse is in the olympics, i'm in the front row, and if someone takes a picture of me, i turn around and say, damned right, it's my wife's horse. the one that helped her recover from ms. the one that made her healthy again. you guys got a problem with that? you can move to other countries. move to venezuela. i'm sure they wouldn't have let

me buy a $1 million horse down there. but as long as i live in america, i will buy whatever the hell i want to buy as long as i made buy it legally, and made it legal. that's number two, money. number three, massachusetts. he's got to dead head first into his massachusetts record. >> that might be more complicated. >> no, it's not. it is an impressive record. this guy governed with a legislature that is 85% democratic. i know you love president obama, but even you admit, when the red light's not on, he doesn't know how to work with republicans. mitt romney, a republican, worked with a democratic legislature, passed landmark legislation, unemployment went down, jobs increased. he's -- i think they had 4.5% unemployment. but he has a growth record in massachusetts. but guess what? >> he won't talk about it. >> he's scared to talk about it! talk about your mormonism, talk

about your money -- >> the welfare restriction thing, that's where it gets a little bit complicated. >> no, it doesn't get complicated. the obama people come out today and say, oh, he asked for waivers, but not the type of waivers that we're talking about in debate. >> he also asked for ted kennedy's tax returns. >> so? >> just saying. >> that's fine. but does that mean you stay away from an incredibly successful four years of a state when the legislature was run by a different party. >> but in order to win the primary, he had to -- >> the primary's over. >> but in order to win that primary, he basically had to distance himself from a lot of what happened in massachusetts, including the health care, which was the signature piece of legislation. and if you start talking about it, you do get into what is an actual problem for mitt romney, which is that there is this perception that he will say anything or move to different positions in order to get can -- >> you know what? you know what? >> is that a real problem? >> no, it's not a real problem. we're in the big game now. we're in the big game now.

when we come back, republican strategist rich galen joins us on set here in washington along with nbc news political director chuck todd, but first bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning to you, mika. and there's hope, finally, we could be at the tail end of our incredibly hot summer and our incredibly long drought. yesterday was another unbelievable day with hundreds all the way from st. louis to kansas city through oklahoma, much of arkansas and much of texas. i think this is going to be one of the hottest maps i'm going to show you until next summer. here's why, finally a pattern change. cooler air's coming down from canada, it's starting to move down to the south. chicago, only 84 today. chicago's had one of their hottest summers of all-time, and eventually some of the rain chances will increase, especially as we go throughout the next two to three days. illinois, indiana, ohio, and even iowa have a chance for some significant rainfall as cooler air will develop over the northern plains and great lakes and eventually to the northeast this upcoming weekend. we haven't had a weather pattern

switch if two months. that's why this is very welcome. and lthere's that rain this morning, through the quad cities, heading for the drought-parched state of illinois. so rain along the southeast coast, the rest of the southeast looks fine. if you're joining us from the west coast, you're the ones feeling the pain now, unfortunately. all that hot air has headed your way. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. and st. louis, we're talking 80s by the end of this week. take the day off and party. have a great day, everyone. [ "human" by the human league playing ] humans. we mean well, but we're imperfect creatures living in a beautifully imperfect world. it's amazing we've made it this far. maybe it's because when one of us messes up, someone else comes along to help out. that's the thing about humans. when things are at their worst,

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25 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe" here in washington. and joining us now, nbc news chief, white house correspondent political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. hi, chuck. and former press secretary to speaker gingrich, rich ghalen. >> so chuck, we've been talking a good bit this morning about the veep pick, but also about this ad that priorities usa put out, bill burton's group, obviously, about as close to robert and the white house as you could be, basically accusing mitt romney of killing a man's wife. and says he doesn't even care about it. but where does this ad fit in? because mark halperin's saying it hasn't run anywhere yet. >> that's the other thing, a lot of the priorities ads, some of them have -- they've put some money behind some of these ads, but a lot of times they'll put out stuff that never goes on.

so i think we have to wait a few days to see if we actually see this air. but, you know, why is this -- every -- you know, it's funny, you watch it and see the partisans really go crazy on twitter, but the outrage on the left over this ad, and the outrage on the right over the welfare romney ad, which is pretty fact twisting. and then they all say, well, you know, if they're going to play by the dirty rules, then we'll play dirty. it's like, really, are we going to spiral down like this? >> but we are spiraling down. >> we are. >> every day, it gets worse. >> i thought when we got to name calling, the candidates themselves. you have rom -- what was it -- >> romney hood. >> romney hood and then -- >> obamaloney. >> this didn't come from jim massena and matt roadsihodes, to campaign managers. it came from the candidates themselves. >> this is the nanny nanny boo boo campaign. this is going to go down in

history as the ad hominem campaign. gibbs was here earlier talking about big issues, but everyone is spiraling to the bottom as quickly as they can. i ran into marty frost the other day, and he made a good point. >> martin frost was the former -- >> dccc chairmanman. he said, this is going to depress turnout. i haven't figured out who that helps or hurts, but people are going to get sick. >> you realize that we're spending more money on tv ads than ever before, and it's august. we'll probably surpass or break that record now. most money in the history of presidential politics is being spent this week, and we'll probably break it next week and the week after that. >> and romney's got 160 or 180 -- >> and the minute they do that. what is going to happen in october? what is the -- there's an unintended consequence here, and i don't think we know yet. is it going to be this where they don't show up?

i think that's possible. look at "the post" poll, 84% unfavorable rating among democrats -- of republicans have of obama. 80% unfavorable rating, democrats have of -- and they noted, it's the highest that the other party had of an unfavorable rating of the other presidential candidate. so it is -- we keep talking about employpolarizing, but it' to 11. >> can i correct something? tony blankly was newt's political director when he was speaker. but politics has become like religion. it's not enough to say, okay, we're both christians or joews r muslims or whatever. now you have to define your brand of that religion, and we've all become political taliban. unless you adhere to every sin semicolon -- >> you just said "taliban."

>> we are, though. and mark halperin, at some point, again, the american people just turn it off. they do turn it. god, when i go home to pensacola, florida, or mika and i go around and talk to colleges or talk to other groups everybody is so disgusted with washington in a way i haven't heard in 20, 25 years. >> and if that does happen, and if martin frost is right that it could depress turnout, i think the advantage may well goo the president's side, because they have gotten a long head start with a lot of money and investment on microtargeting to voters. on identifying voters that need to turn out, on making sure they turn out on election day, and getting them to the polls. so if the overhang of the microenvironment is one of turning voters off, they may be to mechanically win some of those states. >> but if you look at the gallup numbers of the enthusiasm gap, that may argue the other side of it. there may not be enough people on the president's side who care

about it anymore to actually be able to utilize those microtargeting tools. >> check back with me after $400 million more of negative ads and let's see where the enthusiasm is. >> yeah, $400 million more. it is unbelievable. both of these guys are going to spend close to $1 billion on negative ads. so mark, we had robert gibbs here earlier today. i told him the complaint that most of the people around this table have had over the past three, four months is that this is a campaign about nothing. this is a campaign about the past. this is a campaign about tax returns. nobody's talking about what's moving forward. you heard what robert said about, okay, what's the president going to do over the next four years to turn things around? i really heard next to nothing. what did you hear? >> i think you'll see a little bit in the convention speeches about a future-looking agenda from both of them, and obviously, three 90-minute debates. but i continue to think we all have to come up with ways, given that these guys rarely have long interviews or long press

conferences, we need to come up with a way to make them engage on the big issues of the race, the big issues facing the country, particularly the fiscal cliff. the clock is ticking and i think it's incumbent upon all of us to say, how do we foster that, how do we bring that about? because otherwise the debate's limited. >> that's the thing. the candidates are keeping themselves from doing anything. no press conferences, very few press conferences. i thought, as a way to sort of tweak romney, you would see a little bit more from the president, but you haven't. maybe it does sound like he might do one press conference before the election. probably one before the conventions. and that'll be it. >> they've allowed surrogates to take over the role of the candidates. we all have. i mean, we treat, whether it's axelrod or gibbs or gillespie or whoever, we treat them like they're the candidate, and it gives the managers a chance, if you screw it up, well, he's a surrogate. we've let them off the hook.

>> i agree with all of this, but in some respects, there's going to be a backlash to the lack of specifics. and you're seeing that right now, it'll come with obama, but romney haven't been asked to fill in the blanks with his tax plan, then you have this tax center analysis that comes out, and all of a sudden, that's all we have to grab on to. there's analysis that's come down. >> don't you get the point, if you don't fill in the specific yourself, someone else will do it for you and it's not going to be as favorable as when you do it yourself. so i think the romney campaign will learn over time that they have to get out and engage more. and i think the obama campaign will probably learn that it can't just speak in sort of large, unbold platitudes and add a more detailed vision to what they want to -- >> but it's platitudes on both side. >> and one of the things that democrats will say is the famous building a bridge to the 21st century. sort of bill clinton's justification for a second term. they didn't even come up with that until bob dole spoke at his

convention. they were really impressed with the bob dole speech, that he filled in the blanks a little bit, elizabeth dole stole the show, it was a very good convention. and then suddenly clinton and his speechwriter said, build a bridge to the 21st century, that's where we should go. so clinton had a hard time coming up with -- >> and we're still in august. and this is august, most people are worried about making sure the kids are going to have lunch boxes or whatever when you get to school if so that is correct. once you get past the democratic convention, and everybody, and they both have a bunch of money in the back, the super pacs have a bunch of money, and we'll see what happens when -- i think the specifics get filled in. >> you've run communications for a republican before. does mitt romney have what it takes? >> i don't think there's any question about it. >> can he deliver a speech -- >> at the convention, can you move the needle and make us feel that we know more about him? >> i don't know that's what their goal is going to be. but what you said earlier this

morning, he's not a politician, he's a manager. and if they can convince the country that the country's done with politicians, they need somebody to actually make this thing run. if they can do that at the convention, that'll be enough. >> chuck todd, stay with us, if you can. >> rich ghalen, thank you very much. good to see you. up next, a look at some of the big headlines from the west coast this morning. more "morning joe." down here, folks measure commitment by what's getting done. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business -

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all right. let's take a look at the morning papers at 38 past the hour. the arizona republican, jared loughner pleads guilty to shooting and killing six people and wounding another 13, including former congresswoman, gabrielle giffords. the 23-year-old will serve life without parole. giffords' husband mark kelly says he is satisfied with the plea, adding that avoiding a trial will allow the couple to move forward with their lives. >> and bakersfield, california, is among the papers is reporting on the impact of a massive refinery fire in richmond,

california. the chevron plant is one of the largest oil refineries on the west coast and the loss of production fit from monday's fis expected to drive up the cost to $4 a gallon across the west coast. >> the "st. louis post-dispat " post-dispatch," senator claire mccaskill will face todd aiken in the general election. throughout the race, aiken had credited her conservative. in fact, democrats spent nearly $2 million on ads, portraying aiken as far to the right, hoping it would entice republican primary voters to support him. but alienate moderates in the general election. >> so, you know, chuck, so claire mccaskill, very excited that representative aiken won. >> she got the person that she needed. >> that she needed, that she wanted. they got involved in the race. you know who else got involved in a primary race? pat brown, 1996, against ronald

reagan. i'm not comparing this guy, i don't even know who he is, but so many times when democrats try to get involved -- >> you get what you ask for. >> gray davis won re-election because he did this. it does work. you pick your opponent and it can work. >> what about here? did claire's chances of winning go up substantially? >> here's the thing, he was very vulnerable. i don't think she had a shot against bruno. others believed steelman would be just as difficult. i think brunner, a self-funder, unknown businessman was going to be generic republican, and if you turn the race into generic republican against generic democratic in missouri, you're going to lose. aiken is different. he's enough of his own force. even too evangelical for the suburbs of kansas city and st. louis. that's where the -- >> is he an effective candidate? >> we'll see. look, i think the fact is he won based on -- and he got through two people. i mean, more experienced -- one person much more experienced in

missouri politics than steelman and one who spent an enormous amount of money. i've got to give the credit for winning. >> i give him credit for winning, but my personal experience, newt gingrich told "roll call" in 1994, i was too conservative for my district and they were pushing a moderate, i got 62% of the vote. sometimes washington just doesn't know. but missouri, a state, i think it's going to be a great race. >> she now has a chance. >> all right, one more -- do we have time for this one? >> yes, the richmond times dispatch, the proportion of children with high cholesterol has actually dropped. kids are getting fewer trans fat not because they're exercising or eating more. >> the financial times, secretary of state hillary clinton is in south africa, working on a major trade deal. but america's top diplomat showed off her moves at a dinner

in johannesberg, hosted by the country's foreign minister. as you can see, she starts off with a modest shuffle step, before really letting loose. it's not the first time secretary clinton cut the rug on her 11-day tour of africa. on sunday, she joined local farmers in malawi, of the 106 counties she's visited as secretary of state, a few years ago, the first lady was at it again, hitting the dance floor in kenya. also in south africa, a little more reserved there. >> she's fantastic. >> she's the best. >> seriously? >> she's the best. >> coming up next, business before the bell with cnbc's dancing anchor, brian sullivan. more "morning joe" in just a minute. with the spark miles card from capital one,

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it is time for business before the bell, with cnbc's brian sullivan. we'll start with home prices. a big jump, brian. >> hey, that would be good news. >> and i bring you good news this morning. so good morning, by the way. it's nice to have a little good news. and by two measures, home prices rose. core logic, a private firm said they rose 6% quarter over quarter on average nationwide, and fannie mae said they rose 8.8%. they probably used different methodologies about foreclosures, which drove down overall price gains because they go for a lot less. either way, guys, this is good news for housing. lower rates and lower inventories no doubt helping and this is a big deal. >> it's a huge deal. we've had so many people come on saying, the economy's not going to recover until the housing market recovers. this is just a question of time, right? this inventory at some point is going to be bought up. i live, you know, in northwest florida.

at the time of the bust, there were all of these empty houses and all of these empty developments and all of these empty condos. four years, five years later, bit by bit, they're getting bought up. and that's happening in vegas, that's happening in arizona, that's happening across the country, right? >> yeah, and in the so-called sand states that are hit hardest by the foreclosure, you're right about that. listen, as long as their continues to be buyers and these fiscal cliffs and everything don't cause people to seize up, we are going to work through that inventory. and that's an important thing. because as we've noted on this program, when a house is sold, tens of thousands of dollars go into the economy, so it's not just a confidence lift, it's a real direct money injection. on a different note, guys, i want to point out something we did on street signs yesterday and we'll follow up on it today. poway, california, which is a town outside of san diego county, it just came out in some great reporting by a local paper there that the school board had approved a $105 million loan a few years ago. now, nothing unusual about that,

right? except the kind of loan they took, known as a capital appreciation bond, will cost taxpayers $982 million, almost $1 billion, to pay back. $100 million becomes nearly a billion, because there's no payments for the first 20 years. how would you like to live in poway and see that fiscal cliff coming? we're going to dig more into on our show today. it's absolutely disgusting. it's loan shark rates. who approved it? these types of loans, by the way, are illegal already in some states like michigan. what a disaster. >> what a disaster, indeed. and that's a hole that this city will not dig out of. brian sullivan, thanks so much. we greatly appreciate it. coming up next, the best of late-night. keep it right here on "morning joe." you think that jason bourne was the whole story? who the hell is he? [ dita ] it's aaron cross. ♪ [ marta ] you've had alterations

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while romney was ceo of the company, bain bought a telephone directory company from italy's government, which it then resold for 25 times as much. >> how did the italians feel about this deal? >> one company's shareholder who opposed the deal says, quote, the government got ripped off. it was the beginning of the destruction of italian industry. >> the republican candidate is seen as a quote, persona non grata there. >> wow! mitt romney's business practices are too shady for italy.

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that's true. you don't see that, because it's in black and white most of the full-tim time. i mean, where is the patriotism? sure, after the ra, 400-meters gold medalist sanya richards-ross ran around with the flag over her shoulders, but? she really loved america, she would have carried it during the race. and yes, dee dee trotter had red, white, and blue glitter on her face, but that washes off. it should be something permanent like a face tat of reagan's face. [ male announcer ] every day, the world gets more complex. and this is what inspires us to create new technology. ♪ technology that connects us to everything the world has to offer

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laugh... awe uch ooh, yeah hmm nice huh book it! oh boy call me... this summer, we're finding you the perfect place - plus giving you up to $100 at hotels.com hey, welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. let's go to new york and mark halperin. what have you learned, mark? >> if my twitter feed is any indication, and i think it is, when willie geist returns from london, he will be known forever more as mr. olympics. >> mr. olympic? he's a very popular man. >> he looks like an olympic -- >> he does. he really does. what have you learned, sam stein? >> two things, one, hillary clinton is this close to going the dougie. and if you preference anything you say with "all do respect," you can say basically anything. >> it's a will farrell tactic.

"talladega nights". >> chuck? >> i was going with hillary clinton's dance moves. you know colin powell had them. i think she's the secretary of state with the most dance moves. >> yeah? what did you learn? >> i learned that we have a long way to go in this campaign and we need to clean it up fast. >> mika, what did you learn? >> i cede my time today, because you have the most important what have we learned today. >> kate scarborough, 9 years old today. happy birthday, baby, love you. i can't wait to see you very soon. >> she's really a great little girl. >> mark halperin, you can attest to that. she's a special little girl. >> kate is awesome. >> awesome. what else are you going to say? but she is. coming up, straight ahead, olympics, all day. >> enjoy.

good morning, everyone. welcome to our nbc olympics headquarters in new york. i'm kelly tilghman. the knockout round in men's volleyball. bulgaria, the winner of group "a," faces germany. the winner there faces the winner of poland versus russia in one semifinal. on the other side of the draw, team usa faces italy. that is scheduled two hours from now and will be shown live on msnbc. the winner will face argentina or brazil. the battle of south america is just getting under way. let's join the action with paul sunderland and kevin barnett providing the commentary. >> following an epic day in the women's quarterfinals, it's now time for the men to step into the ultimate olympic pressure cooker. women play for a medal, lose or go home. in the first of four quarterfinals, a south american

heated rivalry. argentina in their signature light blue and white uniforms, and equally distinctive brazil in their bright yellow. brazil currently ranked number one in the world. 4-1 in the preliminary. argentina was 3-2 and finished third in their group. top half of the bracket. and number 6 is yellow, sprays the ball out of bounds. best 3 out of 5 sets. first sets to 24 points, must win by two. there's javier vetter, age 43. maybe the most famous argentinean player of all time. pereyra. let's talk about the matchup. >> the young