it's monday, august 13th, and here's what's happening. the next president of the united states, paul ryan. >> my veins run with cheese, bratwurst and some miller. >> i'm delighted to have picked as my running mate, paul ryan, a great leader. >> never see him until inauguration. >> our rights come from anywnat and god not from government. >> every now and then i'm known to make a mistake. >> i think al gore, i think bob dole. >> extremism. >> right-wing ideologue. >> alienating constituents. >> sarah palin with substance. >> i think it's going to be troubling to the mainstream of the american electorate. >> it's a vision that i fundamentally disagree with. ♪ highway to the danger zone we're back after an olympic break and a lot has happened.

just this afternoon mitt romney's new running mate paul ryan face add campaign event not such a warm welcome to life on the presidential campaign trail. he faced numerous hecklers but he kept right on going over the shouting pushing romney/ryan as the ticket for smaller government and lower taxes. >> we need to make sure we get rid of the loopholes, get rid of the deductions, lower everybody's tax rates so our businesses can survive and not keep taxes small businesses and spending that money in washington. >> now you may remember that was the exact same spot where mitt romney last year declared his famous corporationses are people, too, my friends. a bit of trial by fire for mr. ryan today after a pretty dreamy vp rollout weekend. it was just this saturday when mitt romney took their budding bromance to the next level and picked congressman ryan as his running mate in a battleship event that delivered shades of "top gun." from there it was off to fire up the base at a nascar rally.

governor romney knows some of those owners, of course. with the prom king ending his day back home in wisconsin overcome with emotion. >> my veins run with cheese, bratwurst, and a little spot of cow lining and miller. >> with ryan largely unknown, 39% say they've never even heard of him, the race is now on to define him for voters. and while ryan brings a folksy element to the ticket, because unlike romney the man actually can look authentic milking a w cow, it was president obama who was on offense today in iowa suggesting that voters that the trickle down sound you hear is not milk into a bucket. >> they think if we get rid of more restrictions on corporations, if if we end medicare as we know it, take up a voucher system, this will all lead to jobs and prosperity for everybody. they have tried to sell us this

trickle down theory before. and, guess what, every time it's been tried, it has not worked. it did not work then. it won't work now. >> if the romney campaign is enjoying a momentary energy boost, the current vice president, joe biden, was down in north carolina today mocking the very idea of ryan as a bold, brave choice. romney's new wing man will be released in one year his tax returns to the public. gutsy indeed. former dnc chairman howard dean and former chairman, msnbc analyst michael steele. michael, i'm going to start with you. >> sure. >> we've heard the word bold ma many, many, many times. >> many times, yes. >> but he did face some heckling today in iowa.

>> yeah, yeah. >> so how is the base feeling about this pick overall? >> i think the base feels very good about the pick. they feel they've got someone who is going to be close to romney, who is going to have that conservative economic message in his ear. hopefully in the oval office. i take a slightly different tack. i don't see this pick as so much bold as i see it as appropriate. and it's appropriate because romney, these two go together. they fit close together. >> ideologically they do. >> ideologically they do, but i also look at ryan is a guy that, you know, mitt would have picked to work with him at bain. he's aggressive. he's young. >> except he's never worked in the private sector. >> he's never worked in the private sector but, be that as it may, they are similar in we will see how this works out in the next few weeks. the pressure is much more intensified after labor day. the heckling was a walk in the park compared to what's down the road. >> it is. we'll be talking about bain much

more. governor dean, i want to talk about medicare. the ryan pick puts medicare front and center in this campaign. now governor romney knows it. so let's take a listen to what he said in florida just this morning. >> i am delighted to have picked as my running mate paul ryan, a great leader. he looks to find ways to find common ground, to bring people together. he's come up with ideas that are very different than the president's. the president's idea for medicare was to cut it by $700 billion. >> now governor dean, that's not true, is it? >> no, it's not. the amount of lying that's going on in the ads of this campaign are spectacular. they have an ad out saying the opposite. it's just not quite usually this blatant. but the public -- you know, the romney folks have a problem here. first of all, the public wonders if romney has paid any taxes for the last ten years and that's a problem.

and romney is going to have to satisfy that and if he doesn't that's going to be an issue all the way to election day. >> but, governor, i want to be correct on this medicare issue because it's my understanding that essentially while it's true this $700 billion figure that you heard mitt romney talk, it exists in it the ryan budget. ryan uses the money for tax breaks for the wealthy to help pay for that whereas president obama reinvested into the system. isn't that right? >> what president obama did with the accountable care act is to take $700 billion out of medicare because those folks don't need that support anymore with the affordable care act, so they use that to pay for affordable care. it still stays in the health care system. it still take care of older people. what ryan does in his budget takes $700 billion out of medicare and gets rid of the affordable care act which means you don't have it for health care. ryan is an affable guy, he's a radical.

he has extreme views. he doesn't balance budgets. he's like all the republicans since reagan and the two bushes, he's going to run up enormous defici deficits. the deficit will get worse under paul ryan's plan. that's a fact. the romney people are a referendum on obama and the right-wing economic policies. that is a huge loser. i have some great polling data if you have a second. 51%. there's five or six districts just polled and between 51% and 59% in the swing districts absolutely do not favor a voucher or having a voucher program for medicare. that's a killer. that is an absolute kill er. i think they're going to lose florida as a result. i want to get former chairman steele in here for just a

moment. so you hear those numbers and we've seen some of the headlines coming out of florida with real concerns about whether ryan will be an asset for governor romney or not. as the former party chairman, you have to be concerned about that, no? >> i'm not concerned about that now. it's the middle of august. rolling numbers, whether they're good or bad at this stage don't amount to too much. i go back to the earlier point made. once we get past the conventions. you get into the heart, the meat of this campaign, then we'll have this philosophical debate. what romney has done by picking ryan, ryan has elevated the game in terms of discussion. we are now going to not only talk about what we want to do to create jobs but how the role of the government has an impact, a cost, if you will, on that process of creating jobs. you're right, governor. he did take $750 billion out of medicaid. didn't want to say that at first, didn't admit it at first. now they're admitting it. they reinvested in more government in another entitlement program. >> wait a second, michael -- >> let me finish my point. they reinvested it in health

care. and that's the debate. should the government be doing that kind of investment of those funds? that's a legitimate question to ask and a legitimate question the voters will want to get an answer to. >> i think that is a legitimate question. the problem is most american people don't think that's what they want to do is a good idea. >> wait a second. let's be really clear, guys. the choice we're talking about here, do you want to reinvest this $700 billion back into lowering costses for seniors, which is essentially what the obama care does. >> you don't know that. >> yes, you do. that's the idea there. >> the program doesn't exist. we don't know that yet. >> but in the plan, that's what it says. >> in theory that's supposed to happen. >> versus the $700 billion that will go to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. >> it's not tax cuts. it's not just tax cuts for the wealthy. >> go ahead, governor dean. >> we're talk iing about the wrg issue here. everybody's eyes are going to blaze over about the $700 billion and nobody is going to believe anything they see on television anyway from either

side. the real problem is that what ryan did was voucherize medicare. it's not a guarantee anymore. now risk of inkraesed health care costs transferred from the government to senior citizens and every senior citizen in america is going to know that and that's not going to help them. >> all right, guys. we're going to have to leave it there. >> not current seniors. not current seniors. 55 and older exempted out of the program. you're talking about my 18-year-old son, my 20-year-old son, when they get to retirement they will have the option. >> and we will leave that there for now and come back to this conversation, no doubt, governor dean. >> yes, we will. >> hugh. so much more ahead. stay with us. >> before the break we were discussing the brave fiscal ministry of paul ryan who says his deep budget cuts to programs for the poor are in accordance with catholic doctrine. now in response, the u.s. conference of u.s. bishops reply and i hope i'm pronouncing my latin correctly [ bleep ].

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well, mitt romney and paul ryan should enjoy the honeymoon while it lasts because democrats are savoring the opportunity to hang the proposed federal budgets and cuts to medicare around romney's neck. in fact, a national journal poll in march found that two-thirds of voters don't want any part of what romney is trying to sell the seniors when it comes to medicare. so how are republicans going to manage not one but two candidates who are weak on the issue, the way they always do, by turning the president's strength into a weakness. let's take a look. >> there's only one president that i know of in history that robbed medicare $716 billion.

>> if any person in the entire debate has blood on their hands in regard to medicare, it's barack obama. >> joining us now obama 2012 deputy campaign manner stephfully cutters. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to get your response to what you heard rmc chairman say there in terms of blood on his hands. >> i think what you said is right. ryan's medical plan turns it into a voucher system which is the beginning of the end, it would increase seniors costs by more than $6,000 a year which is terrible for seniors' budgets. so the way to distract from that is, one, to run away from it, but, two, launch an untrue attack on us. now we know the facts of what happened during health care reform. the money, the savings we found in medicare which was largely money that was going to insurance companies under medicare advantage, taxpayer

dollars to give insurance companies a big giant subsidy to provide health care services, the same provided under medicare but much more expensive. we said no to that and can he sided to be more responsible with taxpayers' dollars. it also enhanced benefits. so seniors today are closing the hole and getting preventive care with no out of pocket costs because we were able to do that through health care reform. >> so speaking of taxpayers and taxes, i want to shift gears. last night you heard congressman ryan talking about, oh, i don't get asked about where the tax returns are and yet he's essentially sitting there next to governor romney talking about doing away with some of the very tax breaks that we pretty much believe helped governor romney. i'm assuming you are going to stay on this tax discussion as well. >> well, i think, karen, it was

interesting that paul ryan said that even though he gave mitt romney several years of tax returns, for mitt romney to look at but he was only going to give the american people two, he's going that to protect mitt romney because mitt romney has taken advantage of every tax shelter in the book. cayman eislands, bahamas, luxembourg, shell corporations in bermuda. he's not invested overseas for his health. he's invested overseas because he's saving money on taxes. these are known tax havens. the only reason to have money in a swiss bank can account is to hide it from the federal government. now, you know, will paul ryan have the strength to stand up to mitt romney to actually close those tax havens? we'll never know. but will mitt romney make the right judgments about the types of tax reforms america needs if he's been taking advantage of every loophole in the book? the american people need to have an answer to that. the only way to have an answer to that is to see mitt romney's taxes. >> mao, stephanie, what strikes me as interesting you also had on saturday the romney campaign

trying to back away a little bit from the ryan budget. i think in part because they don't want to get blocked in given that governor romney's plan has less detail than governor ryan. but at the same time they propose essentially the same thing. what am i missing here? >> i found that a little curious, too. that you announce your running mate is the intellectual leader of the republican party but then you try to run away from his ideas. that's a little odd. the other thing that is problematic is mitt romney has spent the last year wrapping his arms around the ryan budget. he did it all through the wisconsin primary. that's how he got the nomination. and he even said himself that he would sign the ryan budget into law. so i think it's too late to run away from it and, you're right, his policies are right on par with what paul ryan has already done. they see eye to eye on what to do with the deficit. they want to reduce the deficit on the backs of the middle class and seniors while giving tax cuts to the very wealthy. >> we're going to have to leave

it there. >> thanks, karen. >> thanks so much. next, we'll ask a member of congress for their take on 0 representative ryan. stay with us. >> thanks, neil. what's not to love in this paul ryan plan? we have a future and hope for the next generation as opposed to seeing the united states come closer toward an economic collapse. this is the direction that we need to go and we need to stand by it and support it. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac to provide a better benefits package... oahhh! [ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha! anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yeah. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life.

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so what would happen to america's safety net under a president mitterrand? it could look a lot like what a ryan has been advocating in congress. joining us now keith ellison of minnesota. welcome. >> hey there, karen. >> you are chair of the progressive caucus so i want to start with a question focusing specifically on some of the cuts

in the ryan budget. we have one in five children live in poverty. food stamps have been shown to help reduce the prevalence of poverty. we know that even paul ryan turned his survivor benefits into social security money. so why does his plan propose so many deep cuts to these voightal programs? >> because he needs to find money to give to people at the very top of the income scale in the form of tax cuts. so it's going to have to come from somewhere. i'm sure he would be willing to borrow for tax cuts for the rich, too, but some will come out of things like head start, food stamps, home heating oil for seniors, all types of things that really make life livable for low-income people and even middle class people who are struggling to get by. there will be massive cuts and he's proposed several of them. >> so we know ryan is eye mull tanously running for a congressional seat and is expected to win the primary, there's a primary in your state

tomorrow, but he's never faced a serious re-election campaign. he's really only had to run in a congressional district not statewide. today he had some of his first tastof life on the campaign trail with some hecklers. do you think he's ready to sell america on his ideas given that we also know they're actually not so popular. >> one thing i can tell but paul ryan, he loves the debate. he'll tell you what he thinks. if he is the man he has been on the campaign trail, i think you can expect some candid answers about how he wants to cut food stamps, privatize social security, voucherize medicare. i don't think he's going to try to be the candidate that the presidential nominee, romney, wants to be. that's one thing i think is a real virtue and will help add clarity to this election season. >> so why not switch gears because also on the ballot

tomorrow in your state is congresswoman michele bachmann. a lot of people saw her recent call for an investigation into the so-called infiltration of the muslim brotherhood into the top levels of government, which you were included in that report, you spoke out forcefully. a lot of folks saw that as an act of desperation. i want to get your reaction to that. do you agree with that? >> i wouldn't call it an act of desperation. i don't think it's significantly different from what we've seen from many other quarters. just today my colleague, joe walsh, has been making derogatory statements about people in the muslim faith and it's something that we've seen -- i mean, last year we had peter king hold hearings focusing on radicalization within the muslim community, not other communities. did several hearings on that. i think they, the republican caucus, somehow thinks that going after muslims is a good thing. but i will say this, some republicans are sick of it like mccain, like even boehner and

others. i think they have a conflict. should they pursue bigotry or should they avoid it? it looks like they're having a conflict within themselves. >> so, congressman, do you think this actually hurt her in the state and why she may lose potentially in the fall? >> well, i hope she loses in the fall. of course her district is pretty red but she has a very, very capable opponent in the name of jim graves who is a successful business person and who i think will match up extremely well but i think that, you know, look, people need answers. they need results. they need outcomes and feeding them rhetoric and divisive language doesn't serve that purples. so i think she needs to try to do something to appeal to her base. i will say she sent out a tweet that over the last 25 days she got a million dollars in her campaign. >> she probably needs it. thank you for joining me.

>> thank you, karen. coming up, today's top lines. [ male announcer ] what's in your energy drink? ♪ power surge, let it blow your mind. [ male announcer ] for fruits, veggies and natural green tea energy... new v8 v-fusion plus energy. could've had a v8. i was skeptical at first. but after awhile even my girlfriend noticed a difference. [ male announcer ] rogaine is proven to help stop hair loss. and for 85% of guys, it regrew hair. save up to 42% now at rogaine.com. we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start.

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to help protect your eye health. now, that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. olympic dreams made, olympic dreams dashed, now it's back to politics. here are today's top lines, the quest for gold. >> it's like robin hood in reverse. it's romney hood. >> you have to be a man to wear tights. >> this is a holy site. >> have a little decorum you [ bleep ]. >> they tried to sell us this trickle down tax cut fairy dust before. >> i have paid taxes every year, and a lot of taxes. >> mitt romney killed that guy's wife! >> if people had been in massachusetts under governor romney's health care plan, they would have had health care. >> duck now. >> there's no point in going to a convention and pushing for this man if he's employ iing

moroms like this. >> the next president of the united states paul ryan. every now and then i'm known to make a mistake. i did not make a mistake with this guy. >> the ideological leader of the republicans in congress -- >> we are in a different and dangerous moment. >> he's an articulate spokesman for governor romney's vision. >> our rights come from nature and god not from government. >> it's a vision i fundamentally disagree with. >> a refr erendum on paul ryan' budget plan. >> well, i have my budget plan and that's the budget plan we're going to run on. >> we need someone of principle, someone of achievement, someone of integrity. >> how many years of tax returns did you turn over it to the campaign? >> it's a can confidential vetting process. >> we will talk about issues and not drag out of the dirt like you're seeing from the obama campaign. >> he stole $700 billion from medicare to fund obama care. blood on their hands. >> my veins run with cheese,

bratwurst and some miller. >> may overshadow the actual candidate. >> i had that problem. >> when john mccain appointed sarah palin as well there were huge crowds, much of the same kind of reaction, and i don't think it worked out fairly well. >> you bet you. >> all right. let's get to our political panel. joy reid is an msnbc contributor and managing editor, jonathan capehart is an opinion writer for "the washington post" and a democratic strategist. thanks for being with me, guys. jonathan, just two days after romney tapped ryan, you wrote today, quote, the youthful, telegenic ryan is shadowing the top of the ticket. if that's already the case, how long is it going to be before paul ryan, like sarah palin, draws bigger crowds than governor romney?

>> it's likely. look, mitt romney, sure, has a 59-point plan that's 160 pages but no one can talk with about what's in it. paul ryan back in january of 2010 wrote an op-ed piece called a road map for america's future which then became the house republican budget that they voted on twice. we know where paul ryan stands and paul ryan is someone who conservatives love, who the tea party loves and as we've known for months now the conservative base of the republican party wasn't exactly in love with mitt romney but by choosing paul ryan, the base is falling in line and they're now in love with the romney/ryan ticket. >> it certainly seems like there is the potential for a very similar outcome where you had sarah palin, again, so much more popular at a point than john mccain and sort of overshadowing john mccain. it seems it remind people of what they don't love about mitt romney at a point, but we shall see. joy, you're from florida and we saw a number of headlines sort

of questioning whether or not paul ryan is actually an asset to governor romney in the state of florida. i know that the kaiser family foundation estimates that about 18% of florida's population received medicare payments in 2010. so how are they going to sell this plan? florida is a key state. how will they win florida? >> i don't think this is going to go well. let's put it that way. florida is a state that does have an overabundance of senior citizen voters and that crosses ideological lines for medicare. if you notice today mitt romney is in florida but he didn't go to versailles which is the iconic miami restaurant where cuban americans, most ly very older people, much older people, are. he doesn't really seem to be ready to confront the issue directly with seniors. they're not going to places like the villages. i have to tell you, when that vote for ryan's plan went through in the house of representatives, even conservatives in their own districts, people like allen west, were being confronted at their town halls by angry seniors saying hands off.

>> i think they're still hearing about it actually. i want to take a look at a map we have which actually shows kind of the critical swing states, florida, iowa, pennsylvania, and the size of the population of those 65 years or older. does ryan help or hurt governor romney in these states? >> well, i think it's hard for me to see the percentages here for the romney campaign and it's almost a psychology that what helps you with the base is going to hurt you with independents. you look at his position on social issues, on abortion, in vitro fertilization, on equal pay for women. you look at the fact he's taken an extremist position on immigration, his position as joy was pointing out on medicare essentially to end the medicare program, transfer it to a voucher-based program and allow what's left of it to collapse because the mathematics doesn't work under the romney plan.

you look at he has $9 trillion in new tax breaks, mostly for the wealthy. clearly what this is is an attempt to close the deal with the republican base. and for romney to be doing that at this stage of the election in august is a real statement that this guy has some serious problems and, again, what is good for the base is going to be bad for independents. you talk to anybody in chicago right now and they are licking their chops at how they're going to use all of these issues to define ryan in the next 25 days and ryan is going to be in a position where he has to explain all of this. he has to explain medicare. he has to explain immigration, why he wants so many tax cuts for the wealthy. when you're explaining something in politics, you're losing the argument. >> right. well, they focus on ryan as this bold fiscal conservative. i think, jonathan capehart, in part they're doing that to try to deemphasize the social issues as a way to appeal to younger voters but actually, as julian was pointing out, he has very far right positions on issues

like abortion, same-sex marriage, and so in this period where both sides are trying to define him, whereas on the one hand they think this is going to appeal to people because of the fiscal conservative element, it could turn off as julian was saying, people in the middle, because he's so strident. >> at least a few weeks now according to the polls, there are not that many undecided voters out there and they know it's going to be turn out your base, whether it's the base for president obama to get them to come out in high numbers to ensure his re-election or the base among republicans to ensure mitt romney's election and, again, what paul ryan does is make sure that the conservative base of the party, the far right wing of the party, that paul ryan is the leader of, the house budget chairman here on capitol hill, he ensures that at least the base will be energetic and

fired up to go to the polls and vote and i think before paul ryan was selected over the weekend, it was kind of iffy as to whether there would be enough enthusiasm among the republican base to come out and vote for mitt romney, whether the anger of president obama was enough to get them to the polls. >> well, and some would say this late in the game if you're having to energize your base you might be in trouble. yes or no answer, we don't have a lot of time, is paul ryan a better pick than sarah palin? joy, we'll start with you. >> i think he is in many ways the same. the base overshadows the candidate. >> jonathan? >> yes, much better. he's sarah palin with gravitas. >> julian, you get the last word. >> you couldn't do worse than sarah palin but you can do better than paul ryan. >> thank you for joining me. stay with us. >> it's my honor, real honor and privilege to endorse mitt romney.

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like the elephant on my chest... he thought he was having a heart attack. she said, "take an aspirin, we need to go to the hospital." i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i'm very grateful to be alive. aspirin really made a difference. mitt romney started backing away from the paul ryan budget less than 24 hours after picking him as his running mate. if that doesn't tell you about the motive for this choice, maybe had this will. because when you look at the plan, you'll see it doesn't offer voters all that much in return for their support. the ryan plan doesn't offer anything other than higher medical costs for seniors, higher taxes for families already struggling, fewer jobs for the unemployed, and fewer loans for students. so it doesn't take a genius to figure out why the ryan plan makes mitt romney squirm and it doesn't take a genius to to figure out who inspired this road map to ruin.

that would be the ultra libertarian writer whom paul ryan cited as the inspiration for his political career. let's bring in jerrod bernstein who happens to be a genius to help break this down. >> i don't know about that. i did reason rand. i wasn't quite as moved as certain other people were today. >> it's really bit of lipstick on the old, shall we say, supply side pig we got under presidents reagan and both bushes and, of course, the record under bill clinton was much better especially for the middle class. growth was two times higher under clinton. so the question i guess i'm going to put to you is do republicans have enough lipstick to cover this actual record? >> no, not on supply side trickle down. remember, it's also a deregulation, also a key component of that which really means far less oversight for the financial sector. one of the things that mitt

romney and paul ryan agree on is that the financial sector should police it self. so whether you're looking at oversite, whether you're looking at growth in gdp, job, middle class incomes, wages, supply side trickle down really accomplishes two things very he canively. it redistributes income from the middle, bottom to the top, and it wrecks the budget. that's where we get these deficits from. >> it feels like a back to the future if we're going to go back to saying the financial sector gets to police it self, how did that work out the last time. look at wages which is another area of concern for middle class families and, again, wages stagnated under the second president bush and they actually fell under his father and ronald reagan so, again, if i'm a middle class voter, why should i think that supply side economics is going to work now when it continually failed in the past? >> and let's be precise about this. it's not so much wages overall

as middle income wages, median wages. 50% earn less. 50% earn more. if you look at the record for median wages or for that matter lower wages, you see that in the supply side periods they cratered and then if you compare that to the '90s, you actually saw middle income work 0e erser ahead. i don't think it maps exactly on to these trends if you do this, you get that. but what you certainly see is that under supply side trickle down what's happened is you've enriched the folks at the top, you've really damaged your budget situation and you haven't done squat for everybody else. >> and the argument we hear is that under supply side economics it's going to help the job creators, right? but if we look at the record on investment, once again, there's strong investment growth and more jobs without supply side economics. >> right. >> so, again, this is snake oil but i guess my question is, it feels like there's really an

ulterior motive behind this plan which is, as you point out in terms of the redistribution of wealth, let's spread the wealth back up top. never mind what happens to everyone else. >> let's just think about how supply side trickle down is supposed to work. the idea is that if you provide higher after tax incomes for people at the very top of the scale, they'll create a lot more economic activity that will create new opportunities and jobs for everybody else, investment, jobs, all the things we've been talking about. what's the one thing folks at the top have a lot of right now? and that's after tax income. if this notion that enriching the wealthiest couple percent actually helped grow the rest of the economy, man, we'd be seeing that big time right now. we haven't. >> we're looking at live pictures of governor romney in miami, no doubt selling this plan as we speak. so here is what i don't understand. it seems very clear the evidence is there. the numbers are there. supply side economics time and

again has not worked. it's magical thinking. the numbers don't add up. again, as much as romney tried to walk away from the ryan budget, in both of their plans it's all about this theory of trickling down and giving back to the wealthy. so how are we going to -- it's not clear how to reduce the debt with masve tax cuts because, again, when you look at the record, it shows it is not the case so, again, talk about this and compare this to what president obama has proposed in terms of actual debt reduction. >> i actually think in some ways this is one of the more compelling points here. this is why paul ryan definitely does not deserve his reputation as a fiscal hawk. if you look at the implications of what he's proposing it's much larger deficits, a worse debt outlook. if you look at the president's budget, which is there in great detail to be seen through the process of raising some new revenues and cutting some serious spending, by the way, including medicare and

medicaid -- i mean, he does, in fact, have cuts there as well. you see a budget that achieves a debt that's rising less quickly than the economy, that stabilizes the debt to gdp ratio. it's the opposite of what we saw under ronald reagan or george bush. the evidence is very strong. >> thank you for joining me. >> you're welcome. coming up, a report from the field as the president travels through iowa but, first, tyler mathison has the cnbc market wrap. good afternoon, tyler. >> reporter: good day to everybody. it's a wishy-washy day with the dow industrials closing lower. that he finished down by 38 points but the s&p 500 lost just about 1 3/4. the nasdaq was 1 2/3 points higher. a mixed market on wall street today. copd makes it hard to breathe, but with advair, i'm breathing better.

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paul ryan wasn't the only politician appealing to iowa voters today. president obama is also in the hawkeye state, a battleground he carried in 2008 and he wasted no time reminding voters about an issue that directly impacts their economy. >> right now home grown energy, things like wind energy, creating new jobs all across the states like iowa and governor romney wants to end tax credits for wind energy producers. >> kristen welker joins us live from iowa. she is traveling with the president. here is a question for you. so the polls have shown things tightening up between president obama and governor romney so this conversation about the wind energy tax credits -- this is a very popular issue -- and when you combine that with the fact the unemployment numbers are a little bit better within iowa than the national average, some of the things with regard to medicare and the appeal there with seniors, is the white house confident that they can win iowa again? >> reporter: well, look, you

mentioned the polls, karen, and good afternoon to you. if you look at our latest poll, it actually shows that this race is in a dead heat so neither campaign is taking iowa for granted. that is for sure. it is true that the president's energy policy is popular here. it's true that the unemployment rate is far below the national average. when you talk to the folks who live here, when you read the newspapers, it really tells a slightly different tale. some folks here say they aren't satisfied the president has done enough to get the economy back on track. so that is going to be one of the key messages that the president will be talking about over the next three days when he speaks to voters here in iowa. some political analysts, karen, say the proof is in the pudding. the fact the president is spending three days here in iowa, a state with six electoral votes, proves just how important he thinks this state is to his re-election prospects. remember, we're still three months out. so for him to spend three days here means that his campaign is

not taking this state for granted. they're taking it very seriously. they have set up as many as 20 field offices. that's more than romney has set up at this point in time. so they're going to really work hard to try to win this state but they certainly aren't confident at this point in time. they're just working hard trying to win it back as is the romney campaign. >> kristen, this is the first day after three-day trip through iowa. what does the rest of the president's week look like, and are we going to hear this concentra concentrated attack on paul ryan or keep the focus on the top of the ticket and governor rom mi? >> reporter: well, that's a good question, ryan. i think today we'll continue to hear this concentrated attack on paul ryan. he will speak here in boone shortly. we can expect him to repeat some of the same comments he made earlier today. as the week progresses, i think he will refocus his attacks on mitt romney, stopping through eight different cities throughout iowa the next three days and the first lady will join him at the end of the trip, karen. >> kristen welker live in boone, iowa, thanks, kristen.

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it's now time to clear the air. the xw op is right about one thing, this election is about big things. america faces a big question about how we preserved core american values, of creating and expanding opportunity for everyone for the good of the whole country and not just for the folks at the top. part of that question, what role should government, the private sector and individuals play? despite that dazzling smile and those chiseled abs, congressman ryan can't change the fact that both he and governor romney are trying to repackage the failed idea that cutting taxes on the wealthiest americans will result in investments that trickle down throughout the economy. supply side trickle-down economics is not new. it does not work.

an analysis of 30 years of economic data illustrated this point and showed the big failure of trickle down policies which have led historically to weaker investment growth, stagnation of middle class wages, slower overall economic growth, slower growth in productivity, and increases in national debt. now despite the romney campaign's immediate attempts to back away from the ryan budget, both the romney plan and the ryan budget rely on this magic thinking and fuzz ymath that don't add up. both plans make big promises, make the bush tax cuts permanent, cut spending largely on programs that would benefit middle and low had been income americans, make changes to the tax code, they're going to lower tax rates, and they're going to do it all while remaining budget neutral. both plans have a big flaw. there just aren't enough loopholes to close adequately the $360 billion gap of lost ref mew which ends up resulting in people making over $1 million or