until i got a job in the big apple. becoming a fulltime indoor cat wasn't easy for atti. but he had purina cat chow indoor. he absolutely loved it. and i knew he was getting everything he needed to stay healthy indoors. and after a couple of weeks, i knew we were finally home! [ female announcer ] purina cat chow indoor. and for a delicious way to help maintain a healthy weight, try new purina cat chow healthy weight. it's 3:00 at yankee stadium. 2:00 at wrigley field. high noon at candlestick park. here's what's going on in the cycle today. boys of summer. the bottom of the fifth in this ball game we call the presidential race. today bill clinton is making his pitch. >> the keynote speaker at the

rnc is being threatened to steal the spotlight by a guy named issac. >> a navy seal is breaking the code of silence with a new book coming out on september 11 no less. the sure to be page turner is already turning heads. >> everybody agrees the seals are american heroes but what would you do in the face of danger? >> all that plus wild hair and unforgettable laughs in a 50-year career that was no joke. how the legendary phyllis diller helped shape my career. in "the cycle" for this thursday, august 23rd. ♪ >> oh, hear that organ music? that means it's thursday and time for the political baseball game which has been a staple here on "the cycle." we are now in the bottom of the fifth inning pretty close to being an official game. the ticket is set and two weeks

of convention weather permitting. more on that later. what we have right now is a bench clearing brawl. both sides are throwing everything at each other and tempers are flaering. crazy things are going on. akin in missouri and a new e-book about infighting at the previously no drama obama campaign team. sort of reminds us of bill buckner in the '86 world series. somebody reminded of that. >> yes. >> or wrigley field in 2003, killing the cubs in the playoffs. the surprising outside force who impacts the game negatively for his own team. just as akin has done to the gop. where do we stand? pretty much where the game began. both sides have their rock hard 45% or 46%, somewhere in there. both sides as we reported at the top of the fifth last thursday seem to be working their bases. this is what the president said at a fundraiser last night in new york with m nba players. he said we're up by a few points

but the other side is coming strong and play a little dirty. we've got a few folks on our team in foul trouble. we've got a couple injuries. you don't let up. that's how the bulls won six and how we're going to win this election. politico's jake sherman has our play by play this week. how is it going? >> good. thanks for having me. >> nbc has a new poll out, new battleground map and despite difficult economic numbers, joe biden's chains gaffe, the you didn't build that controversy, todd akin, everything going on, basically nothing has really changed. is there anything that could happen that could actually shake up this race? >> two things i think are really important. we haven't yet seen how the medicare debate will play out. in states like ohio and florida it is going to be key. i cover the house. i cover congress. i've seen how this has played out for the last two years and it's gone both ways. we've seen elections where republicans have gotten pummeled on medicare and a special election in nevada where it went in their favor. i don't think that is fully formed with ryan on the ticket yet. i think it's early and the

conversation is just starting. coming out of the conventions it will be interesting to see how that plays out. >> it is interesting to see w. is in hiding but elvis is still alive. clinton is going to be campaigning, conventioning. he has a new ad promoting obama. let's run that. >> it's about which candidate is more likely to return us to full employment. this is a clear choice. the republican plan is to cut more taxes on upper income people and go back to deregulation. that's what got us in trouble in the first place. president obama has a plan to rebuild america from the ground up investing in innovation, education, and job training. it only works if there is a strong middle class. that's what happened when i was president. we need to keep going with his plan. >> i'm barack obama and i approve this message. >> plain spoken, high minded, focused on the middle class and reminds people of when the dems were in charge and the economy was strong. you like the ad? >> i think we're harkening back to the economy of a decade ago which shows the position that the campaign thinks they're in.

but the plain fact remains that president clinton is an incredibly popular figure. i know people want him fund raising in places where obama doesn't, where biden might not play well. incredibly popular. also assigned to democratic donors that haven't gotten off the sidelines. some that still might not love obama, some clinton folks they need to really get in gear. >> actually really like this ad. i thought it was really good until the very end when bill clinton of course has to congratulate himself and say you know like when i was president. i mean, it is so bill clinton. right? it has to be in some part at least about him. >> that's right. but he's popular and the economy was great under him. so, you know, this is a message they want and campaign aides are saying expect more clinton, more clinton when the convention ends up and afterwards. >> i think it is interesting they do that. yes there is a little self-indulgence but it is also necessary because we've talked about this in the show before. republicans and conservatives in generally think really decided when obama became president that

they were going to try to use bill clinton as a political point themselves and say there is the old great bill clinton democratic party and the new radical barack obama party. so for clinton to stand out there and say look the policies that i pursued, policies that you like and the republicans now say they like are actually the same policies obama is pursuing. >> and, jake, i want to shift for a second to our favorite missourian todd akin. you know, he was on the morning shows yesterday talking about how he was going to stand on principle and that really this is a missouri issue. that's not so much true. what happens in missouri clearly isn't in missouri. he was in tampa last night in part of a super secret meetings with conservatives. maybe he'll shake up the rnc. then of course all the way over in massachusetts elizabeth warren one of many dems to season this moment is playing todd akin up in a new ad. let's check that out.

>> have you heard this? a republican running for u.s. senate in missouri actually said a woman who was raped won't get pregnant. listen. >> if it's a legitimate rape the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. >> this can't be happening in 2012, right? >> jake, i mean, we talked about steve bartman, we talked about bill buckner. at least those guys didn't intend to ruin, you know, the world series in 1986 in that case and for the cubs. but, clearly, todd akin has gone from scapegoat to spoiler. i mean, do you think he has any intentions of getting out? >> wasn't there somebody at the olympics who just got caught for throwing a game? i mean, i think that's a better analogy but here's the thing with akin. he's been in the house for a long time, for 12 years. he sees this as his only opportunity to get to the senate. so if two and three weeks from now he sees himself within five points he is not going to drop out. if the money keeps coming and he is close in the polls there is

no reason for him to move. >> at what cost? does he not care about the party? he doesn't care about embarrassing other people? he doesn't care about upsetting the rnc? >> well, we've already seen that. there isn't a republican with a pulse anywhere in the country that hasn't called on him to drop out. so i think -- i don't think he's taking the message very clearly. >> no. >> now if the money shuts off that's going to be a problem but here is a prediction from talking to republicans in d.c. if this race is close, i don't think the nrnc, the party apparatus will drop out and not spend money. i think they want to win this seat. they're not going to wash their hands of this because of this comment. >> jake, as he played elizabeth warren's ad how much is todd akin going to impact other races across the country both at the senate and the congressional level? >> he is going to be a pin yachta. he is going to be somebody that is going to get tied to every republican in the party. they had this abortion bill at the beginning of this congress. this republican majority that tried to redefine rape, tried to do something like this and every republican that votes for it, voted for it is going to get

tied to todd akin. though they did switch the legislation around in the end everybody is going to get tied to him. the presidential ticket including paul ryan. he is going to be hung on every single republican's neck in the country. >> all right. jake sherman, thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. up next is nothing sacred anymore? even mother nature is getting political. >> the republican party has released this statement though. take a look at this. >> a potential hurricane is heading for florida. forecasters warn it could disrupt the republican convention in tampa. however, there is no cause for alarm. according to republican todd akin, florida rarely suffers damage from a legitimate hurricane. i am going to become facebook friends with our babysitter. no. these work, right? no. all right. mom! look what i found in the shed! no! no! no! ♪ ew! were you guys just making out in here? what? no! is it okay if i quit my job and start a blog?

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scary. all eyes on tropical storm isaac this thursday especially in tampa the site of the republican national convention. right now preparations are under way for next week's festivities but isaac is threatening to crash the party. the storm is moving west at this hour bringing heavy rain and high winds to the caribbean. most of florida is in the cone of concern come the end of the weekend when isaac is expected to strengthen to a category 1 will have to deal with it by the start of monday morning also known as the start of the convention. weather channel expert brian norcross is trackting all for us. i'm going to be in tampa for the

rnc. what am i in for? >> you might be in for okay it turns out. i see we have new information really just, just in. it's not conclusive but it is very interesting. here's where we are right now. we've got a 40-mile-per-hour tropical storm, the bottom end of a tropical storm heading to the west through the caribbean at the current time looking at the satellite it's got a pretty good shape to it. it is a big circulation but it is not at this time very strong and weaker systems are harder to forecast than strong ones are. so here is the future track and this is what you were showing affecting haiti, possibly strengthening to a hurricane by late tomorrow and then heading up toward florida and then we get into the early part of next weekend. here is the cone you showed. here is the new information. that is a tendency of the computer forecast models to favor the left side of this forecast track, perhaps threatening the gulf coast up here, more than threatening florida. but the main point of this is to put a big question mark on it.

again, weak systems are always more subject to forecast errors and the forecasts tend to change in the distant future in the five, six-day time frame more than on strong systems. so right now we're watching for tampa and we're also now extending our gaze to the gulf coast perhaps as far west as texas based on this new information. so a lot more possibilities it'll look like than even yesterday. we'll have to wait and see how this comes together. we should know more tomorrow as they deploy more resources in terms of sampling the storm and getting data to put into these computer forecast models. tomorrow we have the first inkling of that full set of resources, the full arsenal that the government has to really forecast these things. >> bryan norcross. i'll keep my fingers crossed. thank you. >> okay. >> i want to turn to an upcoming book not even published yet but already has the pentagon, dod and most of the navy's elite seal team furious. i wouldn't want trained snipers

ticked off at me. the book is no easy day. the first-hand account of the mission that killed osama bin laden. the author uses a pseudonym but is a navy seal who conducted the bin laden raid. even though fox news claims they know who wrote it and outed him today. regardless the pentagon and cia say they never vetted the book, a major breach of protocol. to top it off the book comes out on september 11. our favorite defense analyst lieutenant colonel anthony shaffer joins us in today's spin cycle. his own book "operation dark heart" was heavily redacted by the government. before you tell me what you think of this i want to go through a brief but important time line so we can put this all in context. >> sure. >> bear with me. first we have the leaks. the "new york times" kill list piece. >> right. >> the news that film director katherine bigelow had access to classified information about the bin laden raid for her upcoming movie on seal team 6. then stories about predator drones, all of these stories that many allege the obama

administration leaked to burnish his foreign policy prowess. then you had the former special forces officers who made a 22-minute web video accusing the president of leaking classified information about the bin laden raid. let's play it quick from that. >> as a citizen it is my civic duty to tell the president to stop leaking information to the enemy. it will get americans killed. >> and so, tony, now we have another navy seal who claims to have been one of the first men through the door in the bin laden compound coming out with a, quote-unquote, unauthorized account of that mission. the pentagon and the white house say they were unaware of the book. it was not vetted. the department of defense will go after this guy. now, i may be wearing my tin foil hat, but why should we believe that this isn't another effort on the part of the campaign to remind voters that obama got bin laden? >> you read my mind. i think that's one of the things you need to look deeper here. as soon as someone says we don't

know anything about this it means they probably knew something about it. books like this don't get made in a vacuum. for example, my book, i gave advance copies and the manuscript to the joint special operations folks long before it was in official dod channels just because it was the courteous thing to do. to think this guy didn't tell people about the book and somehow i hear he got a seven-figure advance. that doesn't happen in a vacuum. >> right. >> i think there is something else going on here. we don't know the whole story. we'll learn more and more. trust me. i think we'll all find this out in the next 10 to 20 days until the book's rollout. there is something not quite right here. i agree. >> the joint chiefs of staff said he was disappointed in the politicization of the military so is speaking back to them on that point. >> yes. >> really the question goes to the seals who are known and legendary for their secrecy. they just never talk about it. right? >> right. >> why would someone spill the beans in this situation? >> let me say a couple things

directly. this guy should watch his back. that comes from friends of mine. i can't tell you who but that is the message. >> wow. >> the other thing here is it is not necessarily going to be them. let's look back on this and remember that in '88 the commander captain rogers had his wife atastacked in san diego on he became the public face of that incident where we downed an iranian airliner. now guy, his name is out apparently if it turns out to be true, has put himself out there in danger and, frankly, they aren't going to be our guys coming after him. the chances are other really bad guys will come out of the woodwork for him. he's done this to himself. with that said i think most folks recognize a need to stay under the radar and tell a story. let me be very clear. i met with one of the care givers of my book. all the people in my book are still friends. we did it as a team effort and wanted to tell a story of things we wanted fixed not to brag about what we did. if you look at my book we talk

about how many things we screwed up. the best things we did are going to be secret forever hopefully. so this guy kind of broke several cardinal rules and most importantly he put himself out there to be a target for the real bad guys. >> so okay. many good reasons why he should not have done it. >> right. >> but why would he have done it? surely he would know that he'll be in physical -- his family in physical danger. why would he do it? do you think he is just bragging? >> well, it's either that or as he pointed out there is something else going on here we don't necessarily see or understand at this point. it's very clear this is going to go against the other narratives in some form or support other narratives. we don't know. i've not seen the manuscript yet. but you have to look at who gains from this. >> right. >> i don't think we really know yet. >> that seems to be the key point. this is really a total mystery what's in this book. >> right. >> this could be something that the obama campaign would want out there, the obama white house would want out there in a way because, you know, talking about bin laden again. >> right.

>> or maybe some sort of detail that is really embarrassing. we have no idea, right? >> we don't know. that is one of the things about my book which was clear at the time. they didn't want my book out because it actually went against the narrative of the war. if you recall when dillon was still on he was one of the first guys to come out with me saying the policy ain't working. the book said that and used rational detail. that is the reason the pentagon went after me then. today we don't know. we detainee know what we don't know what the narrative is. >> tony, the department of defense is saying they did not vet this book. they seem likely to go after this guy. what can we expect in terms of action from the department of defense? >> my attorney who worked with me has said it is highly likely in this charged atmosphere of the pentagon being in a foul mood right now as reflected by jerald dempsey's comments the other day they're going to go after this guy and mark thinks it will be very brutal by the

fact that this guy did sign agreements. you saw the results of the process with me. i went through it and tried to follow the rules as best i could. and even then we had to sue them by the fact they abused it. this guy didn't do anything as far as we know and it may be very bad. not only al qaeda but possibly the fbi coming after you on this too. >> tony, thanks so much for joining us. as always, thanks for your insight. >> thank you. up next the book being called an election year must read. the best and worst american presidents and who is really qualified to rate them? today's guest spot after the break. ice longahd.s.

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>> you have interviewed every president since harry truman so you are uniquely qualified to answer this question. george walker bush. great president or the greatest president? >> keep going.

>> there's only two boxes here. >> can't add another box? >> like the s.a.t.s. just have to fill it in and the whole thing gets graded by a scan tron machine. >> that's a question historians are going to have to answer. >> just answer right now. we won't play for a long time. >> that was stephen colbert nominating george w. bush for greatest president of all time. our next guest claims the president should be judged notd by historians but by the people they served when in office. the biggest hint he says who got a second term and who didn't. today's guest is robert nerry the author of "where they stand" and he joins us now. >> could you kind of explain your methodology? you're saying basically you want to go back and look at how they were viewed and judged at the time they were in office and that should be the key to understanding who was good and who wasn't? >> steve, what i say is that is one significant element that i think has not gotten sufficient

attention. i don't dispute that the historians and history has some -- a role to play and a -- something to say about how the presidents did but if you go back and look at what the voters were saying or thinking about these guys, how they were operating, whether they gave a guy a second term or whether they allowed the party to retain the presidency after the second term, that says a lot about whether a president was successful or not. >> there is an example that sticks out in my mind that shows to me how complicated the question could be even on the surface talking about ronald reagan. you remember reagan winning a landslide in 1980 and 49 states in 1984 but there is also the issue of awful mid terms for him in '82, bad mid terms in '86. leaving office with the deficit problem, the snl scandal and crisis. you know, iran contra, things like this. it got to a point that by 1992 three years after he left office there was actually a poll

conducted that asked people was the country better off because reagan had been president? only 24% said yes. the same poll found he was significantly less popular as a president than jimmy carter. in the last 20 years that's completely and totally changed and what i've seen happen is a sort of dedicated group of reagan supporters have made an effort to sort of rehabilitate his image and it also happened that the effort began when he had that tragic diagnosis of alzheimer's and it kind of made him off limits to criticism for a few years. it seems to me his, you know, historical image was sort of shaped by that. >> i say in the book you can't really give a definitive historical assessment until after a generation passes because there are too many political passions that are swirling around the people who might be answering these polls. i actually don't credit that poll. there were other polls taken. c-span did one. asking voters, asking people generally not historians what they thought of reagan's

presidency and he was considered very, very highly. and his standing in history is rising. i think he's going to reach that point that i call the leaders of destiny who were two-term presidents succeeded by their own party number one. that's the voters' assessment. consistently heralded as great or near great by the historians. that's history's assessment. and my assessment, which is transform the political landscape and set the country on a new course. he did that as well. so reagan was beloved by the american people. he is rising in the standing of history. he is going to be a very significant player in historical terms. >> do you agree with the consistent sort of dogma among historians that the three greatest presidents are washington, lincoln, fdr, and the worst of all time is warren g. harding? >> i agree with the top three. i don't agree with harding. i have to say that i think warren g. harding has gotten a bad lot.

his administration was beset by scandal as we all know. tea pot dome. nothing really bad happened to the kourpt. we had a 14% gdp growth rate in 1922 when he was president. >> who is your worst of all time? >> oh, james buchanan by far. james buchanan not only was a bad president. he was a bad man, a man of low character who lied to the american people practically upon taking the oath of office. >> one notable absence from your list there is jfk. where do you put him on your ranking of presidents? >> i've been faulted. i don't rank presidents. i talk about how historians rank them and i talk about what the voters thought of them at the time. what i say about jfk, and as i said, i've been faulted on this, is that we really can't assess jfk adequately because he didn't have an opportunity to demonstrate just what he could do. he showed signs of greatness in my view but that greatness did not really rise to the occasion because he simply didn't have

the opportunity. he was killed too soon. >> harding was even shorter. he was only 29 months. >> somewhat shorter. that's right. he had, you know, the better part of a term as did jfk. >> robert, i can't let you go without asking about our current president. i know it takes a generation as you said to truly judge but we had michael grunewald on earlier this week talking about how the impact of the stimulus won't be felt, truly felt for many decades. i would argue the same with health care reform. how will history ultimately judge president obama? >> we don't know. we have to give history some time. the american people don't have to wait. and i think that he's on the cusp. i think there is a very, very strong chance he will be judged to be eligible for rehire by the american people although he's not in great standing so i think it will be a very close election. >> all right. >> robert, thank you very much for joining us. straight ahead the issue no president past or present is addressing. china. this is about a lot more than

jobs. >> since you've become president you've been seen and photographed on the arms of white women. >> ooh. >> frankly sir you've been courting an awful lot of white women. will this continue? >> as long as i can keep it up. i mean why do you think they call it the white house?

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these are jobs that could be in oregon, northern california, along the coast in general for which there are well trained and very interested men and women who would take them in a heart beat. >> that from a new documentary "death by china" which takes on our incredibly unbalanced trade relationship with the rapidly developing world power but it is not just the jobs but the trade agreement which forces a 25% tariff on u.s. goods entering china but only 2.5% tariff on chinese goods entering the u.s. this is one of the many reasons we currently owe more than $3 trillion to china. the film draws a stark line between the hard working people in each nation and the governments that are allowing their respective people to be victimized and exploited. joining us now to explain how all this happened and tell us what we can do to fix it is economist peter navarro who wrote, produced, and directed death by china and "forbes"

columnist gordon chang who appears in the film, lived and worked in china for nearly two decades. gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> good to be here. >> so, peter, if you could just open up by explaining a bit the book and the movie are called death by china. how from an economic perspective is china killing us? >> crystal, it's unfair trade practices. if you go back to the year 2001 when china was allowed to get into the world trade organization and essentially invade our markets, since that time our economy has grown at one-third of the rate it used to. we lost 20 million jobs because of that. 50,000 factories have disappeared. and, basically, they use what i call in the film weapons of job destruction. it is basically five things, the export subsidies, currency manipulation, ungodly counterfeiting and piracy and of course working conditions and the ability basically to put anything in the air, anything in the water, and they sell things

into this country in dayton, ohio, pittsburgh. they sell below cost and basically are trying to create jobs and taking our jobs. that's how they do it. it's unfair. >> gordon, you and i have talked at great length about what you call china's coming collapse and its fragility right now. i'm wondering, do you think this administration has missed opportunities to exploit those weaknesses in china? >> well, i think they have. but it's more important what the administration hasn't done is taken a realistic view of what's happened in china. the obama administration, like all administrations before it, comes in with these unusually conciliatory policies but we really haven't adjusted because china's posture in the last couple years has become not only assertive but belligerent and that is why nations in the region have been turning to washington and we need to show a little bit more leadership because things in that area are getting very, very difficult and troublesome. >> gordon, i want to play a clip

of you talking in the film. >> when the workers in china are being abused then workers in america have a tougher time competing against them. >> 5.5 million manufacturing jobs gone. >> 57,000 manufacturing facilities closed in this nation. >> china up to today is a dynasty. no republic. not people's country. >> china's military power is strengthening very, very rapidly. >> it's developing a modern, well equipped, technologically capable military. >> china is the only major nation in the world that is preparing to kill americans. >> china preparing to kill americans. gordon, why would china want to kill their best customers? >> well, also because they see the united states as an obstacle to what china wants to do, which is to establish dominion over the south china and east china seas, to push the united states out of asian waters, and also

because it feels that the united states stands for things which were incompatible with china's system, which is the reason why china's con figuring its military to fight us. they're designing weapons that are meant to exploit american vulnerabilities such as the df-21-d carrier killer missile and also their j-20 stealth fighter designed to bring down american airborne early warning planes. so this is really a problem for us. you know, the chinese have been talking for more than a decade about waging war on the united states and we really haven't been listening. it's like bin laden in the 1990s who talked about this. we didn't pay attention and right now the chinese have been warning us what they want to do. >> peter, there is a lot of controversy about this film. what would you say to those who say this is fear mongering? >> i would say watch the film and judge. there's about 50 people in the film from all walks of life, from both political parties, who talk very eloquently about the issues related to jobs, related

to product safety, related to national defense, and also related to the horrific human rights abuses that take place every day in china. there's a -- one guy in the film charles lee who was in a chinese forced labor camp and comes back to america and finds the homer simpson slippers he made in the labor camp sold in america. i mean, so watch the film and what i'm trying to do here with the film is basically have the message i think which is going to be the winning message in the presidential campaign, which is that the job -- the best trade program, the best jobs program is trade reform with china. it's not this more fiscal stimulus or easy money by the federal reserve. and i just think that so many people, the media, the politicians, get our economy wrong. if we want to fix it, what we need to do is we need to reopen those 50,000 factories, get those 6 million manufacturing jobs back, and really china will prosper as well if we have a level playing field, which we do not now. >> all right.

peter, gordon, looks fascinating. i'm exciting to see it. the film is "death by china" and premieres this weekend in new york. thanks so much both of you for joining us. >> thank you. up next, would you risk your life to save someone else's? the new science separating those who step up from those who step back. [ male announcer ] this is rudy. his morning starts with arthritis pain. and two pills. afternoon's overhaul starts with more pain. more pills. triple checking hydraulics. the evening brings more pain. so, back to more pills. almost done, when... hang on. stan's doctor recommended aleve. it can keep pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is rudy. who switched to aleve. and two pills for a day free of pain. ♪ [ female announcer ] and try aleve for relief from tough headaches.

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it's a shame. >> not all of us are heroes. once i was jogging at night and saw a large group of boys in a circle around a man and when i got close i realized they were mugging and beating him. they saw me and i ran off and saved him but not on purpose. i realized i am not sure what i would have done. i hate feeling scared and couldn't live with doing nothing so i might have tried to save the guy. i don't know. what would you do if you saw someone being mugged or anyone in trouble? would you jump in or would you be afraid? a new "wall street journal" article by sue shellenbarjer

explores why some people rush in and some back off. she says there are certain traits that determine who will try to save someone and who won't. she has a quiz to measure your courage factor and we took it. questions include do you have concerned feelings for those less fortunate? does fear stop you from your goals? is being truthful of importance to you? thanks for joining us. tell us some of the traits common to people who might be more likely to try to save someone even when it might harm them. >> certainly bravery and coping skills are two things. if you see somebody tangled in an electric wire and you don't know anything about electricity you are probably not going to feel capable of stepping up but there are also softer traits like empathy and a tendency to be hopeful about the future that have a big influence and even will induce people who are small and weak to try to intervene in a crisis. >> i want to talk about who is the most and least heroic at this table because we all took your quiz this afternoon. let's start with -- >> i don't want to know. >> the lowest score, least heroic person at the table.

>> who may also have been the most honest. >> what? >> steve. >> no way. >> shocking. >> steve is not rushing into a burning building. >> i don't believe it. >> but we love him. who is the second least heroic person at the table? >> that makes sense. >> i think they're just the most honest. my prediction. >> who gets the silver medal for most heroic? oh! 35 out of 42? all right. so that leaves the most heroic, the prom queen. >> prom queen? >> is anyone surprised? she is everybody's favorite mother. of course. >> especially if somebody is in the water drowning. >> it's going to be crystal. >> i'm honored. >> sue, what can steve do to become more heroic moving forward in life? >> well, learn life saving skills might help and bulk up a little at the gym.

but also i think learning to take others' perspectives can help a lot too. really thinking about how much you are really concerned and caring about others can really make a big difference. >> sue, is steve really in a position to self-assess on all of these traits? he is a very modest guy. >> this is one of the unnerving things about this topic. it depends heavily on the context. if you were in a larger group you're probably less likely to intervene. if you're in a bad mood that day, have a bad hair day, you're probably less likely to intervene. a hero one day might be a coward the next. and very good people, sometimes stand back. because they're not sure what to do or maybe they don't see how dire a situation is. so it really does vary based on the situation. >> well, i'm glad you brought that up sue. it seems as though the circumstances would play heavily into this conversation. for example, i think one of the

well known urban myths is that if you're a woman you don't yell rape, you yell fire, more people will come to save you from a fire than will come to save you if you're being raped. is there any truth to that? >>that? >> that perhaps true that you know, the -- murders way back in the '50s sparked a lot of research on that topic. a lot of study ensued and people concluded that it was partly the an nemty people felt around that. they didn't feel responsible and this is the trait of heroes. do they tend to take responsibility for others? do they optimistically believe they'll have an impact? one of the heroes i interviewed was a guy who didn't even think about the fact if he caught a little girl falling from the third floor he was going to get hurt. he blocked out the negative. if you have the able toy look at

the bright side. >> if you don't think about the personal consequences, even if you might get hurt because you have such a sense of empathy, you have a chance to be a hero, right, steve? >> i just want you to know on the question of empathy for others, six out of six. >> i fully believe. >> and i commend you scored yourself very low. we've been through -- >> there might have been a few issues. >> that's true. >> i think margin of error -- >> nomar gin of error. >> we're going to try to make steve more heroic. still ahead, the prom queen of politics on the queen of comedy. krystal ball reflects on the legendary phyllis diller.

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would you believe that i once entered a beauty contest? i must have been out of my mind. not only came in last, i got 361 get well cards. i wore a low cut gown to a party. the cheese dip turned bad. when i was born, the doctor slapped everybody. >> there's one man in this world who's crazy about my legs. colonel sanders. i told pam i was going to have my facelifted, he said who's going to steal it.

>> that was phyllis diller who died this week after a life very well lived. the road she traveled so impossible that to call her a trail blazer seems too mundane. i watched her in reruns of the smothers brothers comedy thshow. she was shocking and brazen and everything from her one lipers to her platinum wigs, hideous metallic house dresses. in fact, she went out of her way to be ugly. with normal styling, she was attractive, slim. once, she agreed to pose for playboy as a gag. after the photo, she said the joke was on playboy. they couldn't run the photos. they were too beautiful. sexy, feminine and not really funny at all. to be taken seriously for being funny, she had to be ugly. this is similar to other women who had to be serious in all boy's club. extra shoulder pads, please.

bottled emotions, hard charging personalities. people feminine and serious were incompatible. you could either by the flirty object fied secretary or the sexless ball busting career woman. no in between. in years past, that was the game you had to play. that's not longer the case. you can be both feminine and powerful today. the next step on the trial that women like phyllis diller blazed, not to say we don't have a long way to go. when i decided to run for congress when i was 27 years old, i got a lot of advice. mostly about appearance. cut your hair. stop talking about your kid. what went unspoken was that being young, attractive and femini feminine, that didn't seem serious enough. i really wrestled with that. maybe they were right. my own cultural programming told me there was something to what they were saying. after giving it a go with some

ugly business suits, i chose to dress like me instead. i'm sure there are those who judge more for it. it would have been easier for me to put myself in that mold. i still get feedback sometimes. krystal, you have something serious to say. stop wearing colorful necklaces and dresses. cover those shoulders, et cetera. people will take you more seriously. more than 50 years ago, phyllis dill le diller hid her body so the world would pay attention. she blew the doors off her tale talent. the best thing we can do to honor her legacy is to make sure the next young, talented phyllis diller can go up on the the stage and be her beautiful, natural self and still be taken seriously. >> that is so true and such a great point. in this business, in addition to running for congress, we still face that. we still face is idea that we

have to ugly up or man it up. dress more like a man or soften the good looks if you want to be taken seriously. i've long rejected this. i've decided my work is going to speak for itself and i'm going to dress the way i want. i'm a young woman of a certain age and this is just what i look like. >> ugly it up, if you both come out here looking hot. >> i e refuse to play this game of beholding to these stereotypes. >> what i found when running for congress, it didn't matter what i wore because i would get critici criticized. wear heels, flats. >> you've got to let the work speak for itself. all right. that does it for "the cycle." martin, it's all yours. >> krystal, feminine and powerful. both s.e. and yourself. as to the other two, no comment. it's thursday, august 23rd and here's what's happening.