today. chris matthews is fired up and ready to go in charlotte, and he picks things up right now. >> finest hour. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews down in charlotte. let me start with what it's like here. it's fun. you know why? because the people here want obama to be president. they're not here because they have to be. this isn't like tampa was last week, some business convention they had to show up at. nothing like that. it's been fun here in charlotte. and the only thing that bothers people is the feeling that it's going to end, that they can't just stay here until the weather changes, and we get to enjoy the beautiful carolina autumn. but the people here also know they've got a real challenge ahead.

these next two months will test their commitment. getting out a strong historic vote, a bombastic vote of confidence will take a monumental enterprise, and the exuberance and excitement and inspiration of this week in north carolina can only help. the question i have is whether the people running the obama campaign got the real message of charlotte. it is the tremendous power they enjoy in these political voices we've heard here -- governor duvall patrick, mayor rahm emanuel, mayor julian castro, michelle obama, and most potently, bill clinton. if they send these people home, the obama people are blowing a golden opportunity. if they equip them, commission them, engage with them and send them on the road, they will have a team of confederates that will constitute the greatest partisan cavalry charge in history. joining me right now is eugene robinson of "the washington

post," pulitzer price winning columnist, and the indefatiguable steve smith, who stays true to his party surrounded by all kinds of hostile forces. thank you, steve smith. i want to start with gene and then to steve quickly. what has to be different in the president's speech tonight, which we're told is going to be relatively brief, compared to the great speech he gave in 2004 and again in 2004. >> i don't think he can be just poetry. i don't think he can be just hope and change. for obvious reasons. so i think it has to be more specific than that. i do think it has to be forward looking. i don't think a whole lot of this is the mess george bush left us in is going to play right now. i don't think this is the time for that. bill clinton laid out the lawyer's brief last night as to where we have been and where we are now. i think president obama has to tell us where he's going to take us in the next four years. >> steve, my sense is it has to be like a booster shot.

you had your first shot as a kid, and you go back for the booster. the booster hurts a little, but you know it's going to last longer. that's my thinking about this whole address and the whole week here. it's got to be real. it's got to hurt a little bit because it's about how tough it's been, but it's got to be hopeful. your thoughts as a pro. >> this convention reminds me at this stage an awful lot of president bush's convention in 2004. president bush came out on that night in 2004, and he outlined a vision for the future, a plan going forward. i think that's what the president has got to do tonight. it can't be about lofty rhetoric. it can't be the same speeches he's given the last couple of years. he's fundamentally got to project a vision about what is the plan to turn the country around. i think he's going to benefit by actually being inside tonight as opposed to being in the stadium, which would be so reminiscent four years ago. >> president obama got a huge assist last night, of course from former president bill

clinton. let's listen. >> president obama started with a much weaker economy than i did. listen to me now. no president, no president, not me, not any of my predecessors, no one could have fully repaired all the damage that he found in just four years. if you will renew the president's contract, you will feel it. you will feel it. >> in the national journal today, ron fornier wrote that president clinton played hardball for the president last night. "clinton branded the gop as extremist and obstructionist and hateful, and he took the central question of mitt romney's campaign, are you better off than you were four years ago, and turned it on its head." this morning david axelrod of the obama campaign expanded on the one-two strategy of the last night and tonight.

let's watch. >> he played the role we wanted him to play, which is to talk about where we've been, how his policies affected the country, republican policies, and president obama's policies and where we're going from here. he set up that choice. so now the president can talk about the future, having cleared some of that underbrush out of the way. first of all, i think you're going to hear the president talk about tonight where we need to go and the things we need to do. >> steve, what do you think of that? the coach explaining the signals during the game. i don't quite get it. >> i hear that, and i say strategy scmategy. bill clinton made up half that speech on the fly, literally. half the speech was extemporarized. the idea that anybody told bill clinton what to say and how to say it, i'm not buying. but that is effectively what he did. it doesn't change what the president has to do. >> steve smith, you're on the other side from this crowd in

terms of politics, and you'll get booed no matter what you say unless you say something really smart, really smart. so that's your standard out here tonight. it seems to me we've got to hear a lot less from the back room boys like axelrod and a lot more from the front parlor boys like governor duval patrick and michelle obama and bill clinton. why do they keep putting on television their back room people to talk about their secret strategy? why don't they put on people to build the case with the middle, that 6% still to make up their minds? why is this campaign doing this still this morning? >> so far in this campaign, the obama campaign staff have been by far the best sur the grogate had. you haven't seen that before this week. he's not been particularly well served by the people who have gone out who are in elective office. >> why doesn't he bring -- >> governor o'malley, cory booker. you didn't see until this week

people step up and really hit it out of the park for him. >> that's half the thing. what about bringing in these really good surrogates like the mayor of san antonio and the governor of massachusetts and the first lady and bill clinton? once a week, sit down with them. the president tells them what he wants them to get across, and send them out like a cavalry charge. why doesn't he do that? >> listen, he should do that. my point is we haven't seen before this week really effective surrogates who hold elective office doing that on the president's behalf. >> whose fault is that? whose fault is that? >> i think that in 2004 i was in a campaign in the bush campaign where we had a great surrogate batch. 2008, it was a lot harder. i don't think it's anybody's fault per se. i do think that after some of the speakers that we've seen they have a tremendous opportunity to put it out around the country because they did a great job for them. >> whose fault is it? the guys who didn't send them out. the ones who didn't do a good

job speaking for the president, like mayor booker, and governor the other day not having quite the record. >> steve's right. a lot of the democrats have been, if not wary, but not really willing to take the flame and go out there for president obama. they have been at this convention, and i think they will be going forward. if that's the case, this marks a turning point in the campaign. >> let's watch how good they were to know what i'm talking about. what i'm saying, steve, they have talent on that bench. they ought to put them in the game. for months the president has been waging a lonely fight without any confederates. paid staffers going out to defend their boss is not the same as people taking it to their own constituencies. this convention showed this problem can be fixed. let's watch the democrat surrogates, the confederates in action. >> barack obama has also lived up to his responsibilities as commander in chief.

ending the war in iraq, refocusing on afghanistan, and eradicating terrorist leaders, including bin laden. >> where mitt romney was willing to turn his back on akron, dayton, and toledo, ohio, the president said, i've got your back. >> president obama believes in a country where billionaires pay their taxes just like their secretaries do. and i can't believe i have to say this in 2012. a country where women get equal pay for equal work. >> this is the president who delivered the security of affordable health care to every single l american in every corner of this country after 90 years of trying. this is the president who ended don't ask don't tell so that love of country, not love of another, determines fitness for service. who made equal pay for equal work the law of the land.

>> you know, it's like a football team when you've got this fourth string quarterback, and all of a sudden he comes out and starts throwing touchdowns. why has he been on the bench is my question, duval patrick. >> i've heard him speak before, but the other night, i've never heard him like that. they need to send him out every day. >> steve, do you think it's smart to put the grown-ups out in the field and let the staffers do the plotting in the back room? just a thought. >> i think there's a number of people seen by tens of millions of people who were really, really good. in fact, i think that's true of both parties. >> oh, yeah, who was good on your side? >> i think marco rubio was fantastic on our side, suzanne martinez was fantastic on our side, condoleezza rice. >> rubio was good. condoleezza rice was great. those were my favorites. who else did you like? >> i liked susanna martinez. i felt a star was born. >> i noticed you skipped your nominee for president, steve. you're a smart guy.

just skidding. let's talk about the jobs report tomorrow morning. we've got an economic report tomorrow. how important will that be? the president is done by 11:00 tonight. the report comes out by 8:00 tomorrow morning. how important will that be? >> it's a big deal. the prediction is for a good number. if it's just a kind of good number, it becomes a disappointment. it's an important thing. >> steve, how important is the unemployment number tomorrow morning? >> i think it's a huge deal. i remember distinctly eight years ago as we were at the republican convention, we had the jobs number coming out that day after the president's speech. it was 144,000 new jobs created. it exceeded expectations, and it really helped fuel a bump. i think that the democrats could not so far -- and i think the president will do a good job tonight. they couldn't have had a better convention so far, but the verdict's going to come in over the next couple of days.

did they get a bump? is he able to move ahead a couple of points? we'll see the answer in a jobs number. >> steve, thanks for coming on. you always speak the truth. thank you, gene robinson and steve smith. coming up next from charlotte, the vice president is the other big speaker tonight. here's what the white house is hoping joe biden will do, reach out to blue collar voters and independents and help convince them the president deserves another four years. will biden stick to the script? we'll see. senator chuck schumer joins us in a minute to discuss and preview the speech. plus bill clinton blew the roof off this place last night with a masterful speech we'll be talking about for a long time perhaps through 2016. no point trying to dampen the speculation. the buzz about hillary 2016 is only growing louder after yesterday. also, president obama has had a rocky relation with the business world. could clinton help give him some advice on that, perhaps mend some fences. let me finish tonight with the difference between the two political parties.

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back to "hardball." it's joe biden's return to the spotlight. he's been a behind the scenes player in the white house with a broad portfolio of responsibilities. former president clinton sung his praises last night. >> he appointed a vice president who ran against him in 2008, and he trusted that vice president to oversee the successful end to the war in iraq and the implementation of the recovery act. and joe biden did a great job with both.

>> i think joe was verklempt or something for a moment there. tonight he makes his case. joining me is senator charles schumer. biden, you worked with him for all those years in the senate. tell us about the real joe biden, not the guy that "saturday night live" loves to destroy. >> the real joe biden, he's the real deal. he's a kind person. he's a decent person. and best of all, when he was in the senate, there were maybe four or five senators who instinctively knew how to talk to average people without thinking about it. that's in his bones. that's who he is. that's what he believes in. and there's no pretense about him. he was popular in the senate because he was the real deal. >> howard? >> yeah, i watched the club from the outside, and that's absolutely right. you could tell who's liked and who's not, who's trusted and

who's not. joe biden was trusted. he's the guy who always took the train from washington back up to wilmington. >> because? >> because that's where he lived. >> and because his two kids were orphaned. >> his kids were orphaned. his first wife died in a tragic accident. he's the kind of guy who liked to ride the train, who liked to talk to people on the train. his dad was a car dealer. he's an average guy. he went to state schools. he knows how to speak the real language. the onion newspaper, the humor newspaper, they've got a guy they call onion joe biden, and he's a guy with tattoos and a muscle tee who's always polishing his pontiac. that's an exaggeration, but on the other hand, that's who joe biden is. and the other thing about joe biden -- and i think the senator will agree with me -- he was one of the best informed, most detail focused guys. he was chairman of the foreign relations committee, chairman of the judiciary committee. this is not just a show horse by any means. >> it helps if you're 29 years old when you get elected to the

senate. >> but he was a serious senator and legislator, which is the other reason why people such as senator schumer respected him. >> i understand -- >> when he walked that train and talked to people every night, it's because he liked to do it. no tv, no cameras. he's a people person. >> here's joe biden giving his salute to the working people at a campaign rally in detroit this week. let's watch him. >> romney and ryan don't seem to think so much of y'all, of you guys. they view you, the working men and women of america, as the problem. we view you and know you to be the solution in america. look, folks, we know who built this country, and we know who's going to rebuild it. it's you. and instead of vilifying you, we should be thanking you. we owe you. >> let's talk about a group that i'm very familiar with, senator -- and, howard, you know i am. they're called reagan democrats. >> you bet. >> they decide every frickin'

election. they tend to be conservative catholics. they're notre dame subway alumni. that's who they are. some didn't go to a great college. they make up their mind in october. they are the october surprise. biden is raw at getting at least half of them to vote democrat. >> the very people that mitt romney is trying to win away from barack obama, the greatest antidote to that is joe biden because he talks to them. joe biden's greatest effect is not going to be here in charlotte. it's going to be in milwaukee and pittsburgh and toledo and akron. he'll be all over those states. he will talk to those people, and he will do it in a way that convinces them that barack obama is the right choice. in a certain sense he's a secret weapon. by the way -- and howard knows this -- he played that role in the administration. i dealt with joe on so many issues, and at times in those rarified moments, the great thinkers were way up here and you needed somebody to bring them a little bit back to earth, the person we in the senate

always called was joe biden. he earned the president's trust. he earned the respect of the people in the administration, pretty much for the same reason that the senators liked him so much, because he's the real deal. >> let's talk religion and ethnicity for a minute. that's what's also at stake here. in terms of the swing vote, those people that you're talking about, the notre dame subway alumni, many of them are catholics, many of them working class catholics and people who have traditional social values but sort of more democratic party oriented economic thinking, those are the people that joe biden has talked to his whole life. >> who he is. >> that's who he is. that's the people he's talked to. and in the administration he was an advocate for looking at those policies. he didn't win every battle. by the way, he lost the battle over what catholic hospitals are required to do in terms of providing abortion and contraception services, but i think people in his community know that he and bill daley and

those others fought that fight, and they know he is their guy. in the key states of ohio, wisconsin, and michigan and iowa, what i think of as the sort of big ten states of the swing states, that's where joe biden is going to be focused in the last week in the campaign. >> i wrote a book about the american average swing voter. they're called the baileys. there are three or four politicians who instinctively speak to the baileys, and the baileys trust them. >> i know you're on that list. >> joe biden's at the top of that list. he knows how to do it. >> i saw him give the fordham graduation speech. he always brings the house down. let me ask you about this debate coming up. you're a pro. you're a pro. you're watching. you're in the game. joe biden has the debate. on october 11th paul ryan, national television, the whole country's going to be watching, the kid against the pro. how's he going to look? >> joe biden, i remember what they said. how's he going to handle sarah palin? he whooped her. he beat her hands down.

the same thing is going to happen here with ryan. joe biden -- paul ryan can have all his statistics and all of this. here's what joe biden is going to do. >> how do you do tt statistic thing, that dance? i want to get that. go ahead. >> we're going to do it tonight after obama's speech. i just want to say this. what biden will do, and here he's going to be particularly good against paul ryan. he is going to be able in a gentle way that people care about to actually mock the kind of mistruths that paul ryan has been doing not only at the convention speech but before. he is really going to show paul ryan for who he is, not in a mean way, but in a way that matters to people. he's going to knock it out of the park against paul ryan. he'll have paul ryan flummoxed. >> having covered joe biden at various hearings he's conducted when he was on the hill, he will

be very prepared. i reported on the huffington post yesterday he's already spent 60 hours in debate prep. he's studying hard for this. he wants to be underestimated on this in terms of mastery of the facts, but he's not going to be. he's going to perform -- he is going to know everything about every paul ryan budget proposal inside and out by the time that debate takes place. you watch. he's got a really great debate prep guy named david ginsburg, who is head of opposition research in a couple of campaigns. joe biden is studying every minute he's got, and he will -- he's hoping that he will surprise people with his mastery of the facts. >> i have to say that a guy like joe biden, i never was elected to the senate at 29 or anything like that, but when he got the nomination for vice president out of springfield and barack obama named him, i was verklempt because for the first time in history a regular catholic guy from the neighborhoods got elevated that high in the world. it was a big deal.

i want to fu, chuck schumer. >> what's the irish word for verklempt? >> i don't know. i could think of something, but i have to be so careful. dewy eyed. i'm being careful. >> one more thing. this chris matthews, when he said democrats say the capital of japan is tokyo. republicans say it's osaka. and the press reports it might be tokyo, it might be osaka. he hit it out of the park and told every journalist, tell the truth. >> thank you. we'll describe that later. up next, more from charlotte and our coverage of the democratic national convention. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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are you looking forward to the president tonight? >> i am. definitely. i'm exuberant, ecstatic, yes. >> you look it. >> thank you. i am so excited. four more years. four more years. >> i came all the way from new york just to see this. it's wonderful. >> thank you. >> north carolina, ft. bragg. >> you served in vietnam. >> two tours. >> were you in it? >> yes. >> thank you for your service. >> four more years. ain't no stopping us now. we're on the move. >> i'm from chicago. going back home to vote for obama. four more years. >> i'm from chicago. >> josh from high point. we're the democratic party. >> from oklahoma. >> oklahoma. >> rocky mountain, north carolina. four more years! >> i know where that is. hi, young ladies. >> i'm from georgia. hoping we'll turn. >> north carolina.

>> shar the charlotte, north ca! >> charlotte, north carolina! >> voting for barack obama, social responsibility. ain't no plutocrats. >> you're using some big words. >> president obama has worked hard. he deserves four more years in the white house. >> osama is dead, general motors is alive. >> i support president obama, and i came all the way from oklahoma to prove it. >> all these oklahoma people. >> we're representing. >> we're going to go right back. we'll be right back with more. welcome aboard!

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cnbc market wrap. stocks soar to multiyear highs. dow surges 244 points. s&p jumps 28. nasdaq rises 66. investors cheered the european central bank's agreement on a new bond buying program. on the economic front, applications for first time jobless claims dropped by a stronger than expected 12,000 last week. and private businesses added more than 200,000 jobs to payrolls in august, according to adp. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." one of the main reasons we ought to reelect president obama is that he is still committed to constructive cooperation.

president obama appointed several people to his cabinet who ran against him in the primary. heck, he even appointed hillary. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was the man who needs no introduction. bill clinton speaking about his wife hillary last night. the secretary of state is on the other side of the world right now on diplomatic duty, but she was able to watch a recording of the speech. there she is late last night in east timor. bill clinton made headlines for his forceful defense of president obama last night and also, of course, much more carefully his rebuke of republicans. a lot of folks are wondering if he was an opening act for a possible hillary run in 2016. ed rendell is the former governor of pennsylvania. he's a democrat and former great mayor of philly, which is even more important. and joan walsh is editor of salon.com. both are msnbc -- what did i say? analysts. you're more than analysts.

anybody can analyze. let's have some passion here. governor, i always look at you as a great american and a great clinton guy, and i'm always thinking of you down the road and what's going on in your head when you put your head on the pillow at night. what's your nirvana about the clintons? what's heaven look like? is it hillary in the white house and bill clinton as the big bubba living upstairs and you as his best friend? is that what you see down the road? >> i do think it would be a same if hillary clinton, after president obama gets reelected, if hillary clinton ended her public service. she's too smart. he she's too able. she's too committed. there has to be roads for her to go down that she says she's not interested in running for president, and i take her at her word. >> but she would say that. that's the right thing to say. >> she's also beat up and tired. i went to a dinner with her. i went up to her and said,

hillary, do i look like i could run for president? do i have the stamina? she said, of course you do. you look great. i said, well, i'm exactly the age that you'll be in 2016. she laughed. >> women and men always look at things a little differently on some things like age and getting older. i'm sometimes stunned by women who say to me, she might be too old, and i wonder why would they say that? >> i don't think that anyone thinks she's too old. >> would be too old. >> i do think people think about what she said. she would like to spend time on his foundation, on her foundation perhaps, working on women's issues. >> but anybody can do that. >> i agree. i think there's a real possibility that that's how she feels. however, i feel so sorry for that woman because she's there between bill clinton and ed rendell, who are going to be pushing her for the next four years to change her mind. >> you talk about an advancement. i think bill clinton will do -- i'm talking to the guy who knows everything about this. i'm pretending to know it. he's already gone around the

country and disciplined many of the democratic ranks. if you opposed hillary in 2008, you get a certain reward from bill clinton. it's called punishment. if you helped her, you get a real reward. he has made it clear to everybody, there ain't no free shots against hillary anymore. those days are over, right? he's clearing the path for 2016. okay, governor cuomo. you want to run? it will be expensive emotionally. okay, governor mallory, go run for vp. that's a smarter move. you're laughing because you know he's going to do this. >> there's no question the first part of what you said. in pennsylvania, patrick murphy, a great young congressman, ran for a.g. he was for barack obama. kathleen cain from scranton was for hillary clinton. bill clinton came in for kathleen cain and made a big difference, and she not would the primary. >> he stayed neutral, and they punished him. come on. >> but that's bill. that's bill. is there any doubt that bill wants hillary to run in 2016? absolutely not. absolutely not. but hillary is her own person,

and she's got to decide whether she wants to do it. i believe in the end -- and i'd love to hear joan about this -- that the chance to finally break that glass ceiling will be just too attractive for her. >> i agree. >> let me ask you about this. is it better for her -- i have my own strong view -- that obama wins and is president during what looks to be an economic upturn coming, or to be out of office and have her rushed into a decision? if he leaves office, there's a rush to get her nominated whereas, if he stays in office, she can think about it. >> it's better for her in every way if he wins. there's no doubt about that. >> i agree. >> on the "nbc nightly news," bill clinton commented on the potential 2016 run. let's watch. >> there's a column out there today that says you could help two democrats tonight if you do well, president obama and hillary rodham clinton in 2016. >> you know, she -- we're not kids anymore. i have no idea if she'll ever run again.

she says she won't. right now i want to help him because i think it will help my country. >> well, you know what, i agree with him. i believe every word. but when he does that aw shucks, come on, he's thinking deeper. look, if he can get his wife elected president, that is a crowning achievement. he's coming back, and his whole problems he ever had are gone. that's the american people saying, we've got a vote of confidence in both you guys. it's bigger than just her even. of course, she gets to be president. he gets to be renewed in the public trust. it's fabulous. >> i don't think he needs renewal in the public trust. when i was much watching him la night, i thought, he's become the wise uncle for all americans. i believe that. >> he was breaking things down in a way that no one -- >> you're right. i think that 69% approval right now is undeniable. >> it's a lot of capital to spend. to go to what you asked before in terms of women, i think that women really want her to run.

i talked to female democrats who supported barack obama as well as female democrats who supported hillary, and they are dying for her to run. i think that will be very -- >> where's that place you go when you want to get physically happy and physically fit? golden door -- what's it called? where is it when men and women go out west? >> send her to a spa for a year. >> and you relax and come back, and you think, oh, i can take on the world. >> chris, remember one thing. there's a difference between hillary clinton 2008 and hillary clinton 2012. she's been a great secretary of state. >> but it's better for her not to get into a primary fight. >> of course. >> it's better to take on the republicans. >> absolutely. >> that's what i think. bill clinton called the republicans out on both policy and politics last night, such as when he singled out senator mitch mcconnell's pledge, it was a pledge to make obama a one-term president. >> he also tried to work with congressional republicans on health care, debt reduction, and new jobs.

and that didn't work out so well. but it could have been because, as the senate republican leader said in a remarkable moment of candor, two full years before the election, their number one priority was not to put america back to work, it was to put the president out of work. well, wait a minute. senator, i hate to break it to you, but we're going to keep president obama on the job. >> governor, you had a tough time in harrisburg with republican opposition. i've never seen a political party operate so much like, excuse the term, european elementary body and just say, we're going to screw the president and make sure he gets nothing. not because it's good or bad for the country, we don't want him

to look good. they just systematically did that. >> your question? >> i never heard of that p happening before. >> un-american! >> someone in the audience said un-american. it is un-american. the problems we face are so severe, it will take good republicans and good democrats to get us out of them. there are good republicans out there. there's tom coburn, who i may disagree on with on 70% of the issues, but he had the guts to face nor kwift down and said we need the revenue too. >> all of the republicans are acting like we love bill clinton, if only we had a bill clinton to cooperate with. he called them out and said that's ridiculous. >> they voted to a man and to a woman against his program in '93. >> he did it all by himself, and people lost their seats. >> they gave the decisive vote of the 218. they mocked her and booed her on the floor and said good-bye, marjorie. they mocked the economic program of your guy. >> and pretended they love him.

>> and i had the great pleasure of going into montgomery county six years later and saying margie margolis cost you an extra $35,000 on your taxes and your net worth increased by $23,000. >> up next, barack obama and big business haven't always had the easiest alliance. can he steal a page from the clinton playbook? this is "hardball." the place for politics. >> people ask me all the time how we got four surplus budgets in a row? what new ideas did we bring to washington? i always give a one word answer -- arithmetic.

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oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty.

here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. welcome back to "hardball." president clinton did an extraordinary thing just a month after he won the 1992 presidential election and before he was even sworn in. in december of 1992, as this headline recalls, he gathered business leaders in little rock. quote, the new administration welcomed hundreds of business executives, labor leaders, and economists from all 50 states to an economic conference where everyone from the head of xerox to the owner of a south dakota flower shop would get a chance to tell president-elect bill clinton what's wrong and how to fix it. it was an incredibkrebcredible o business leaders, especially from a democratic president. should president obama follow suit? we have former chairman of ubs

america. michael stills former chairman of rnc and msnbc political analyst. >> they love me. >> don't believe a word of that. >> let's talk about this problem. the president's a populist, he's a democrat, he believes in fairness in taxes. he believes in people making big amounts of money have got to pay their fair share. is it still possible for him to be not hated by business? >> absolutely. we should reflect on where we were four years ago. i know a lot of people read the book about that weekend. i was there. we did not have the tools. today we have much better economic stability. that's why the market is up 100% since he's taken office. manufacturing jobs up 100,000. exports double digit gains. we have a lot of momentum. we're not where we need to be, but we're certainly on the right trajectory. >> i have always said, if you want to live like a republican,

vote like a democrat. bill clinton said last night that the republican presidents have produced4 million jobs since 1961. democrats have produced 42 million. so the record is positive for the democrats. so why aren't you a democrat? my real question -- >> not happening. >> if george were president when the stock market doubled, he'd be dancing in the end zone. >> okay. the stock market has doubled and all those look gra et. but you still have 23 million people employed. you still have a sense of foreboding amongst the people out there looking for work, those who have gotten jobs at less pay. because the jobs that would pay them more is not available. these are legitimate issues and questions within the economy. i appreciate those on wall street that are backing the president. that's fine. but the reality of it is the president still needs to address in a broad sense what the

economy is going to do. >> one reason why rich guys don't like it is their kids come home and say daddy, the president says you're a bad guy. you're one of these tycoons. you're one of the rich. is that part of it? they don't like the insult of being the guys who are grabbing all the money? >> not at all. they called me fat cat. i went on a diet. so there. and it's nice being a wall street guy that somebody is being booed more than me. it's the movement we've made. >> it's not how many are unemployed? are you kidding me? >> it's the movement we've made. >> really? what do you say to the person who's been unemployed for 18 months still looking for a job? the movement, come on. >> we're on the right trajectory here. we had 800,000 jobs lost in january of 2009. with this president, we have had 29 straight months of private sector job growth. >> that's great. there's still 23 million people who do not have a job.

you're talking about a movement. how about you move them back to work. why don't you move them back to work? that's the reality here. >> this president is moving people back to work. >> when? >> let me ask you a couple questions. the stock market, you've got money in a 401(k). you're happy now. you were scared to death three years ago. we've got a stock market booming. why is it booming at the same time the business is invested. i keep hearing businesses sitting on $2 trillion. why? >> because the business community has made great productivity gains. they're more efficient today and therefore they're going to have a better return on capital. you look at the average hour work week. it's gone from 32.5 to 33.5 in three session levels. the first thing people do is fill that efficiency gain. that's what they've done. now they're hiring. that's what you want to get this direction going. >> when you talk to your fellow business guys without mentioning

names, i have a suspicion that a lot of them are sitting on their money because they don't want the economy to boom while obama's president. >> come on, chris. >> i don't think that's accurate. listen, i think -- listen. the people in the business community are americans like everyone else. we want to make sure this country moves forward. we need to get housing back. we should be clear. we're at four-year lows in foreclosures, four-year highs in housing. once we get housing back, okay, you'll see construction jobs coming. you'll see -- >> it has not helped those companies to put money in the economy. number two, the fact there's uncertainty still about the tax policy, the health care policy, what's going to happen next. they're holding that cash. they're not going to invest in the future that they don't have some degree of certainty.

you know. your business associates don't just put money out in the market without some sense of what the return is going to be. if the government's going to sit there and take more of it, they're going to invest less. >> thank you, michael steele and robert wolf. when we return, let me finish with why charlotte may be the happiest place on earth tonight. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ ow ner ] i need to expand to meet the needs of my growing business. but how am i going to fund it? and i have to find a way to manage my cash flow better.

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let me finish tonight with where i began in that other convention, the one in tampa. if people want to know the difference between the two political parties in 2012, let them come to charlotte. if people are looking for an alternative to the business convention of last week wanting more joy in their politics, more generosity in their aspiration for this country, let them come to charlotte. i think we heard some bad voices last week. a convention echoing with

spiteful talk about food stamp presidencies, back room schemes to keep minorities from voting. i know we heard some good voices this wiek like that of deval patrick of massachusetts. and julian castro of san antonio. and bill clinton of -- let's face it, the whole world. and calling for fairness and opportunity. and yes the pursuit of happiness regardless of how you're born. there was a gentleman's agreement in tampa. allow people to say terrible things, words meant to anger and divide people than allow all this to be said but agree to deny it to the last man that a nasty word had even been thought much less spoken. there was none of that here in charlotte. here we felt the reverie of people happy to be american. not begrudging it. not slicing and dicing who's in and who's out, who's to be turned against another, who's to be silenced, who's to be specially rewarded. if it looks happy down here, it's because it is. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. i'll