hethey don't need one,gh wes, clay and demarcus tried on the new depend real fit briefs for charity to prove how great the fit is even while playing pro football. e best protection now looks, fits and feels just like underwear. get a free sample and try one on for yourself. time for one quick e-mail, john, what do you got? >> i've got a karen, marveling how beautiful one trade looks. >> it looks good this morning, doesn't it? red, white, and blue, that's a live picture on a clear tuesday morning, september 11th, 2012.

"morning joe" starts right now. good morning. it is tuesday, september 11th. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have jon meacham, author of the fourth coming book "thomas jefferson," the art of power. and richard haas. good to have you both on board. willie's on his way in the door. here we are. >> here we are. >> 11 years later. >> 11 years later. "usa today," as time passes, how should we mark the day? you know, there is so many things that remind people of this day. but i'm struck by new yorkers talking about the sky. i went out yesterday to pick up kate at the bus stop, and our neighbor worked downtown.

on that day. and we didn't say anything, looked up in the sky, it was a beautiful, beautiful, vivid september day. the weather was perfect. and we both looked at each other and without even saying anything we were like, wow. like we knew this day was coming. and so i asked where were you? and she started talking about being downtown. and being blocks from the building and running up town and only wanting to see her kids. and of course, mika, you were -- you were at cbs and ran down from 57th street with your camera crew and were down there for how long? >> for weeks, but, you know, the sky yesterday, actually, is the -- every year since then when i see that blue, vivid cool

air, bright blue sky, i think of 9/11. >> so you noticed it too? >> oh, yeah. >> i wonder how many people looked up and saw that -- >> i looked at the date on my iphone and i was like, oh, here we go. >> because you knew it? >> absolutely. >> and you were down there for weeks. jon meacham, how do we put -- i don't know how -- what americans were thinking on december 7th, 1956, you know, but here we are 11 years later, and, of course, unlike that war which ended four years later, say '56, i guess it would be '52, ias going to the end of the war. this war continues. news that al qaeda's number two killed in yemen. and we're still in afghanistan, kids that were how old would they have been, you know, on a bus stop that were 6 years old

in, you know, waiting for a bus going to first grade when this happened are now fighting and dying in afghanistan. the war continues. >> it's the longest war in american history. so there's really no analogy. in terms of dates, you know, the 20th century, you know, everyone remembers where they were on december 7th for a lot of people april 12th, 1945, when fdr died. and november 22nd, 1963, april 4th, 1968, dr. king. >> yeah. >> and september 11th. and i don't think there's going to be any question about its role in both the memory of people and in the history of the country because it did set in motion this remarkable decade of expensive, seemingly endless conflict. . >> you know, willie, though.

and, of course, we're in the middle of a campaign, so you can't say this. you just can't say this because there are too many haters out there that will hate hearing you say anything nice about either side. but here we are. let's just be positive for a second here. you know, i remember cnn taking polls right after 9/11, how many of you believe that you or your family members are going to die in a terrorist attack? and the numbers were just extraordinarily elevated. everybody knew another attack was coming. is it okay -- i'm just curious, is it okay for us to stop for a second? and even if we disagree with some of george bush's policies and barack obama's policies in this area, which we do, and we've criticized both. is it okay to say, thank you, mr. president, thank you, president bush, thank you, president obama. because while it was ugly and while we still disagree with a lot that this president's done and the last president's done,

we haven't had another attack. and that is pretty damn remarkable, remarkable work by the president, by the cia, by the fbi, by new york city police, by -- by our entire nation security apparatus. it's so easy for us to attack them. can we just stop today and thank president bush and thank president obama, thank our men and women of the cia, the fbi, and everybody that's kept us safe for 11 years? >> i think we could do that. i think we're all glad we haven't been hit again. we can never know, perhaps how many other attempts were thwarted by intelligence agencies. we did get lucky a couple of times and thinking of the underwear bomber, richard reed, the time square bomber, those were -- we got lucky in those cases. but on this day i think mostly of the families of people who

died in the buildings. new jersey, 12 people in our town, a lot of kids who are now in their 20s were in high school or middle school at the time have spent the last 11 years without their dad or their mom. and those are the people i think about today. >> and you are narrating a discovery? >> discovery channel. >> it's an incredible story. >> unbelievable. >> when we look back and tell stories to our children about everything that happened on that day to help them sort of put it into perspective. this is one that stands out. i can't even begin to describe it. but tell us -- >> well, it's the story of the 9/11 surfer. this guy who became known in the hours even after the collapse of the towers. there were these reports out there that a man had fallen from the 86th floor and somehow survived by riding a piece of debris down. firefighters reported it was true, an emergency room doctor reported it was true. it ended up not being true at the end of the day. one of the stories we held on to, but ten years later we found

the real 9/11 surfer. turns out it was the 22nd floor. he's going to be on this show in about two hours from now we'll talk to him. >> so, mika, i remember when the show first started. i don't want you to get into all of it, i remember when the show first started not knowing about your background and every time 9/11 came up, you know, you'd start tearing up off camera. you'd start crying. you -- i mean, it was for you, you were down there. and there's so many people that you still see today that you were connected with then. one was byron pitts. who as the tower fell and you were right there, you didn't know, you said you just froze. >> yeah. >> and he grabbed you because you didn't -- you just didn't know what was happening. your mind couldn't process that. >> i couldn't compute what was

happening because the building was literally beginning to crumble from the top and come down on us. and roll toward us and he pulled us away and we hid in a school for, i don't know, 24 hours after the school right by the twin tours. and, yeah, there were people that we worked with through day and night covering the story that you just bonded with forever. and then there were so many people who never got to go home, so it's sort of hard to talk about without thinking that it's a little bit indulgent. >> another thing that really quickly was of reasons -- you said that you walked around, that you just intuitively knew that what you were breathing in was awful. you said before others where you were walking around, i guess you

had a shirt and you would wrap it around your face, you wouldn't breathe air down there. >> yep, and cbs gave us gas masks and we wore them except when we were doing our live shots. and my husband who is an investigative reporter covered one of the first deaths due to these first responders who were down there for weeks and months who died from breathing in ingesting all this. >> by the way, while the government was saying it's okay. >> go ahead and breathe the air. >> no. >> and by the way, jim has -- i re-tweeted. jim has this story on the state of security 11 years later. richard, we have so much to talk about as far as where the country's gone over the past 11 years. i don't really know where to start. iraq was obviously a tragic detour. afghanistan now appears to be a tragic, endless war. what have we gotten?

let's start by talking about what have we gotten right? what have these two administrations who seemed to be polar opposites but now seem to be tied together in their approach. what have they gotten right? >> it actually turns out we've gotten a lot right. you mentioned the fact there hasn't been a real follow-on to 9/11. and it's in part good fortune, in part good work, but also the terrorists lost their base in afghanistan after 9/11. bin laden has been killed. i thought what we saw in the arab world with all of the upheavals that no one was coming out there chanting al qaeda slogans. these guys know how to destroy, but they don't know how to create. they don't know how to inspire. i think in some ways we've learned as bad as 9/11 was, it wasn't a turning point because these guys don't represent an alternative. >> they did not start a revolution with 9/11. and in fact, they've lost the battle for the hearts and the minds of the arab world. >> there's that, and people often make fun of words like

globalization or multilateralism, but there's been extraordinary multilateral collaboration. china and russia, we do work on antiterrorism. homeland security has become a global effort. if you made the career choice of becoming a terrorist, your working environment has deteriorated today as opposed to 11 years ago. >> it's miserable. >> drone strikes, you're working, the entire reorientation of the american intelligence and law enforcement community. one of the reasons 9/11 happened is intelligence was not particularly oriented toward counterterrorism. people always talk about our failure to connect the dots. you were talking about this op-ed in the "new york times." sure, we didn't connect the dots because this was not a priority. people weren't looking for it. this has changed fundamentally. essentially we've become much better. problem is, we're not perfect. and one of the sad things about 9/11 is these guys are still at it. and we have to accept in the way we fight disease, this is out

there, and these guys are going to continue to be pushing and one day they'll be successful. it may not be the scale of 9/11, it could be worse. but this is part of the environment in which we live. this is not a war in a traditional sense where you vanquish the enemy and you have a meeting on some battleship and sign a treaty. this is just something that continues in a low level and will be part of our futures. >> jon, were you in the city on 9/11? >> yes. >> i was going to say, it was so striking, i had just left washington, went back home to pensacola, and it was so striking to see how americans, not just in pensacola, but i -- you know, i remember seeing flags going up everywhere in pensacola. all over the place, going up to philadelphia and just -- i mean all over america people, they're shockingly coming to new york and people weren't honking horns. that was kind of nice.

it is remarkable how americans came together from september 11th, sadly and i hate to say this until up through march of 2003. right before the iraq war. we really were united in a way we haven't been in so long. and, of course, things have only deteriorated. i guess -- i don't know as a historian, look back at that time. >> well, what i find so interesting about it is in my memory in any event, there was the flags, the unity, the god bless america came on the 12th. the 11th was as president bush said was a day of fire. and it was so hard to know what was happening. the reports of bombings and fires on the mall. there were -- we didn't know how many airplanes there were. you forget the fog of war, the

chaotic moment of not -- of wondering when it's over. >> having no idea, and i've got to say george w. bush regained his footing when he came here and stood. but i remember that press conference when he was in louisiana and being horrified by how scared the president of the united states looked, how disoriented he looked, how it seemed like they did not know where they were going. and i just want to do a hat tip right here, which, again, in this environment you probably aren't supposed to do. you know what? while george bush looked scared and disoriented that day, that day only, rudy giuliani stepped up. and he became america's mayor on that day. and he kept people advised of what was going on and was a great leader for that time. >> it was one of the great acts of spiritual and popular leadership that we'll ever see.

and, you know, mayor giuliani is a big churchillian. but he was reading and looking at in those days and weeks a book by john lucash called "five days of may" in may of 1940 between churchill and chamberlain and halifax. and it was a marvelous case of leadership of being there. >> well, and like churchill and we're not comparing him to churchill, but for that time, though, like churchill, part of it was leadership, part of it was a great act. telling people, and by the way, that's what kept the british people's head in the game in 1940. and we needed that on september 11th. >> right. >> and i would argue, and again, this goes to your point about saying things in this climate

that, in fact, president bush's rhetoric through the fall and winter of '01/'02 did prepare or at least was designed to prepare the country for what richard was talking about. there's going to be no missouri signing, this is a war without traditional boundaries. this is an asymmetrical warfare. and i think that's -- i think people understand that. i think where the american public clearly understood this was not something we had experienced before where i believe the covenant began to crack was when the pursuit of more conventional wars -- >> right. >> was undertaken in reaction to it. >> to his great credit, tom brokaw about 15 minutes after the towers fell, i'll never forget it, said immediately with a calm voice as we were running around, this has changed this country forever. we will be going to war, we will retaliate against whoever

perpetrated this crime. our lives as we know it will change, life at airports will probably be different. there were some voices in the chaos that brought a little bit of calm on that day. >> and tom was exactly right. and then the president did step up when he came to new york. and you're right. things have changed. >> and with our top story this morning, we're reminded on this anniversary of 9/11 that the fight against terrorism continues. senior u.s. officials confirm that al qaeda's number two leader in yemen has been killed in an air strike. saeed al-shihri died when their vehicle was reportedly hit by a hail fire missile. al-shihri was imprisoned for six years before being released. >> he should've stayed there. >> we spend so much of history worrying about powerful states, but it's places like yemen and pakistan, somalia. it's the weak states that are

unable or unwilling to police what goes on within their own borders. this is the soil in which terrorists put down roots. and increasingly for the future, the biggest challenge facing the united states is going to be the consequences of weak states. the yemens and somalias that will generate the threats. >> serbia and the great war. what was the match that started the great war? it was a serbian terrorist. >> it is pretty darn unbelievable, though, how we do go into yemen with drone strikes, go where these terrorists are and that creates a lot of debate. but being number two in al qaeda anywhere just not a good, good move. >> we have a lot of other news to cover. when we come back, how the obama campaign is using a page from the bush campaign to hit mitt romney on national security. mike allen has the details in the politico playbook. eugene robinson, andy

serwer, and carl bernstein, you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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22 past the hour. time now to look at the morning papers. we'll start with "usa today," some 26,000 public school teachers in chicago are starting their second day on strike. union leaders say no progress has been made on issues from teacher evaluations to job security. yesterday, thousands of teachers marched through city hall while the parents of about 350,000 students will again have to figure out alternative arrangements. >> that's just unbelievable. >> that's a huge story. >> and richard, you were talking about how the man expected to succeed china's president hasn't

been seen in over a week. rumors are flying in the communist country after xi jinping didn't show up at an event with hillary clinton. rumors have been swirling. that last one was i just suggested myself. come on, this country is -- it is a red hot mess. >> he's vice president? >> he is vice president. he is the heir apparent to hu jintao. this underscores how china's politics have not even remotely kept up. >> no. >> they're opaque, it's still top heavy, it's a communist party, and we have no idea. and the whole question -- one of the things that makes the united states and democracies work is the political transfer of power. there's no real mystery here. legitimacy is embedded. in places like china, like the old soviet union, the legitimacy

cannot be taken for granted. >> no legitimacy. they look at the money they have to spend on security, internal security. it's just -- >> on this next story, the food industry should take note. "usa today," federal tobacco tax hike has spurred a historic drop in smoking, especially among teens, poorer people, and those dependent on government health insurance. why are you shaking your head? what is wrong with you guys? what is wrong with you people? less people are dying, right? because they're not smoking. >> we've gotten around it. there's a black market over by the holiday inn. >> president obama signed into law in the first month of his term by raising pack prices 2 cents practically overnight. >> improves the elasticity of demand. >> fewer people smoking than in 2009. >> give me a call. willie and i know a guy. and by the way, it makes you

thinner. look at this. you think this just happens. and, it does, it increases your circulation. >> creeping statism -- >> people create food that kills you. >> hey, listen. >> take note of the front page of "usa today" because lawyers are coming your way and so too is the government. >> i'm so glad i'm forcing my 9-year-old daughter to work the docks. because, you know, you load some stuff. one or two end up in the back of the subaru. it happens. >> it's breakage. >> subaru guy. >> amazing. >> i love french cars. new polls -- >> oh, great. >> the public reaction to both political conventions. let's start with the new cnn poll that shows the president leading mitt romney 52%, 46% among likely voters, the same poll before the dnc showed the candidates tied at 48%. but the new abc/washington post poll shows a tighter race.

the president and mitt romney statistically tied. it should be noted in the same poll the president holds a six-point lead among registered voters. the romney campaign has been attacking the economic record. are you better off now than you were four years ago? only 20% say they're better off. nearly half say their situation is the same, 32% say they're worse off. asked hypothetically if romney was president, the answers remain largely the same. only 24% say they would have been better off. you want to jump in on the situation? >> actually, just the national polling. >> yeah. >> if we had a true popular democracy where the national vote mattered, that would be an interesting use of resources for news organizations. since we don't, you know, where do the numbers in ohio, where are they in florida, where are they in pennsylvania? >> we had those yesterday where the president's up in ohio, florida it's about tied.

>> oh, so. >> there you go. >> out to mike allen, shall we? from politico. good morning. >> good morning, guys. >> what do you make some of those polls and to appease jon meacham, what can you tell us about the battleground states. >> well, we will say that the battleground polls are showing a similar story. one thing we've learned -- we saw this in 2004 when the presidential race was always within the margin of error, but president obama had a slight lead over john kerry every time. what we've learned is that every poll is not wrong. and ever since the democratic convention, all these polls have shown a consistent story, which is a little bit of a glacial melt in this tied race, just a slight edge to the president nationally. and, most importantly, as you point out, a notable edge for the president in ohio. private republican polls in

ohio. and they've got to win if he's going to be president show a notable move to the president. republicans very worried about it. some private polls show as much as an eight-point presidential advantage in ohio. it's not that much, but that tells you what's in the mind of republican media buyers or republican strategists. they're panicked about ohio, they think that more and more news organizations are going to move ohio to lean obama -- the consequences of that are dramatic. >> you know, last night, willie, a lot of -- not a lot, but some conservative outlets were suggesting that some of these polls were skewed. romney's own people. i mean, the internal polls just are not good right now. not good in ohio. not good in florida. they are very, very concerned behind the scenes because there was a bounce. they were hoping for a bounce, but not the bounce they got. the bounce out of the dnc has hurt them internally. so much so that they're now sending out memos from their

pollster. explaining that this was just a high. move on. but the romney people are not pleased with what happened over the last week. >> it goes without saying that romney has to win florida. but also the state of ohio. i sat here with mark haleprin yesterday and he's got an electoral college app on his ipad and went through all the scenarios. to win for mitt romney without ohio is very difficult. >> very difficult. >> he'll have to get both of those. he could do it without ohio, but he's got to win almost everything else. >> richard nixon used to say, you run for president as if you're running for governor of ohio. >> yeah. >> if you're flying over, you just stop. >> no matter what you do. you stop, go down, say hey. >> yeah. >> you've got a big piece, mike allen, about john kerry. you say mitt romney's kind of

getting the kerry treatment when it comes to his handling of foreign policy. kerry from 2004. explain that one. >> yeah, this is another reason for republicans to worry. their nominee is on the defensive on national security for the first time in 40 years after that salute to the troops of war policy in the convention speech. democrats sense a vulnerability here and they're going to go after it leading into the debates. two points obama will make about this. one, he will talk about it as just not ready. the commander in chief role is something he's prepared for. and the obama campaign also will argue that governor romney has plans, that he's not vealing. they hope to keep pushing this. romney has a chance to fix this today. he speaks to the national guard association. in reno, he wants to reset the national security debate. >> richard, are you struck by

the extent to which democrats have become the party of national security at least over the last four years? >> this was always an area of comparative advantage for republicans. i think it's a natural result of incumbency and reflects the conversation we had before, we're in a sense on a permanent footing. and this president and this administration have had to deal with these issues. it's a mixed record, but i think there's enough positives they've had -- they've got something to defend. also, he and vice president biden now have a lot more experience than the republicans. both of whom, you know, come out of backgrounds without a lot of national security. the last debate, the foreign policy debate in late october i think is going to take on more significance than many people thought. >> i hope we can focus on it. mike allen with a look at the politico playbook. coming up monday night double header, the oakland raiders were terrible on special teams. looking for a new snapper i'm guessing this morning. we'll show you highlights from that. and the ravens looking like a

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all right. time for some sports. monday night football back at long last. last night a double header. chargers and raiders in the west coast night cap.

tied at 3 at the end of the first half. rivers finds malcolm lloyd in the end zone, gives the chargers the lead. for the raiders, it was a story of bad special teams. here's third quarter. the backup snapper gives him a low snap, leckler can't get it off, that sets up a san diego field goal. >> that's bad. >> later in the quarter -- >> they'll get this right. >> good snap, bad protection on this one. >> off his foot, leads to another chargers field goal. >> that's not good. >> the raiders must have -- here we go. ground ball. >> he couldn't even catch it. >> error on the shortstop on that ground ball. chargers take over again in raiders territory, chargers nine points, they beat the raiders in an ugly one, 22-14. ravens looking much better taking on the bengals, ravens driving inside the ten, ray rice of rutgers, into the end zone,

seven-yard touchdown, 10-0 lead there. ravens doing it through the air. watch this throw, look off to the right, pump fake, throw back left, that is beautiful. 34 yards, they reviewed it, he held on, 17-3, ravens there in the third quarter. >> the hair. >> if he didn't have all that hair, he'd be able to keep up with the receiver. >> andy dalton floats one, and ed reed, the great ed reed headed for the end zone and the hall of fame. and that passes as the all-time leader in interception return time. winning 44-13 over cincinnati. >> willie, can i ask you something about the kids these days? >> yes. >> why do the kids wear the long hair? >> the dreads. >> but also, i was watching, was it notre dame or -- they had

this hippie kid. >> they call it flow. it's having hair that comes out of the helmet, hockey has it. >> if i'm the coach, everybody's got a crew cut on my team. >> yeah. exactly. >> sometimes that hair can get pulled. troy polamalu has had his hair pulled a few times. >> did you see the u.s. open? >> it could have been the greatest tennis match i never saw. >> it was tied to be the longest u.s. open of all time. andy murray against djokovic five sets becomes the first british man in 76 years to win a grand slam singles title. tied a record, longest u.s. open final, 4 hours, 54 minutes. one rally lasted 55 strokes. one rally. >> oh, my. no. >> yes. >> his first grand slam title in five trips to the finals a month after he won the gold medal at the olympics in london. >> and jon meacham, the last

british player to win the grand slam. can you name who it was? neville chamberlain. >> lord halifax. >> he edged chamberlain out. >> what about geo gonzalez. >> how about the nats? >> how about the nats? i love the senators. >> shut down for the season, but they got this year, gonzalez just taking down the nats. allowed one run in six innings of work. the nationals have the best record in baseball at 87-54, but if they're going to win a world series -- >> the heartbreaker for me as a guy that's adopting the new york mets because i love fred wilpon so much, the mets eliminated from the title race. >> they have been? >> yesterday. >> and by yesterday, you mean june 13th. >> we're getting closer. we're getting closer. we're going to turn it around. >> and the yankees, dnp, did not

play. >> in first place. >> it could be a beltway series. >> baltimore/washington. >> when we come back, andy serwer. we'll return. ♪ ♪

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when she's outside of a bar. >> no, no, no, i'm fine. i'm trying to get to some of the other stories going on today. we want to get to the cover of "fortune," but first i want to read from the "washington post." this is about the teacher strike. in chicago, 85% of the roughly 400,000 public school students are either african-american or latino. a similar percentage received free or reduce-priced meals, meaning these students live near or at the poverty line $27,214 for a family of three. the average public schoolteacher earned almost triple that amount, $76,000 a year according to the school district. in contract negotiations this year, chicago public schools offered an average total pay increase of 16% over four years. >> that's actually pretty good. >> the chicago teachers union, 26,000 strong rejected the offer and went on strike monday throwing chaos among parents and children.

no one can say how long this will last, but even if it lasts till tomorrow, it's already hit more minority children upon whose education the future depends. >> do they not get that the environment, that they're living in, they're working in. do they not get how bad the economy is? how -- how unions have to be more careful than ever on how they look publicly? could they do anything -- this is about as stupid -- and we said it. as wisconsin unions deciding to help scott walker raise millions of dollars and basically create a political machine. what's wrong with these unions? their leadership is so stupid. >> rahm emanuel on a very interesting set of circumstances taking on the union.

and mitt romney jumps in issuing a statement attacking the president for what's happening in chicago. saying, "teachers unions have too often made plain that their interests conflict with those of our children, and today we are seeing one of the clearest examples yet. i choose on the side of the parents and students, and my plan for education reform will do just that. thank you, mitt romney." >> it seems these unions keep getting sold down the river by their leadership. >> yeah. >> you know how many teachers in chicago are angry this morning because they want to be in class teaching children? it's unbelievable. >> it's terrible. and rahm emanuel is bitterly opposed to these unions. paul ryan and mitt romney were praising rahm emanuel, then rahm emanuel had to come back and said thanks very much, guys, i understand, but this is kind of a political trick you're pulling. you know, i'm still supporting the president. that's a bit of a side show. to get back to your point.

it's crazy. teachers shouldn't strike. i think it's unconscionable where you walk out on a job where you're responsible for the education and welfare of young people. i'm sorry. don't strike. air traffic controllers, don't strike. right? >> right. >> teachers, don't strike. >> especially, jon meacham, when you look at the students right now that are being thrown under the bus. some of the poorest children in america overwhelmingly minority. the children who need desperately to get back into classrooms after a summer off. >> and competitiveness across the country in school systems. >> it's staggering, and rahm emanuel offers them a 16% raise and they say no. >> the strike is not commensurate with the offer or the fundamental job.

and it's not as though this is some kind of issue. it's a very big struggle when because of the time and cultural shifts we've managed to in a lot of cases find ways to negotiate and make yields in a gray area. >> unions are on the run. and i've always said that's not good for the middle class. unions have helped build out the middle class post war america. we had 33%, 34%, 35% american households represented by unions. and when unions do what they did in wisconsin, fighting a fight that they they should have known they were going to lose and what they're doing here in chicago. they're just undercutting their own union membership. >> especially with teachers who we all inherently are compelled to like and root for and we're

all grateful for teachers. they are the good guys. the teachers are the good guys, they're just being poorly represented. when you have stories when you watch wgn or read the "chicago tribune" of single mothers having to miss work for days now to pick up their child. >> and guess what? they don't live in our neighborhood. >> right. >> the moms having to miss jobs, it's not like -- it's not like they don't have the luxury that we have tosay, oh, gosh, what do we do? can we get somebody to come and help us out here? maybe we'll -- they're the people that can least afford this. the moms, the dads, the kids, the people who can least afford this are the ones that are getting penalized by this strike. >> people who have hourly jobs who will not be paid because they're not there in the afternoon. people who may if this goes on too long may lose their jobs. there are real important issues at stake, the teachers have a right to fight for things like higher pay. if they want to talk about teacher evaluations, that's

okay, but let's not leave the kids out in the cold. >> here's what happened after the contract talks. rahm emanuel was trying to get rid of the automatic pay bump that teachers got for years of it is and advance degrees and wanted to award raises based on merit and things got ugly from there. >> isn't something -- >> andy serwer, isn't it something that teachers unions fight -- they have been fighting for years, and they are on the wrong side of their street and they've lost this battle with the public. they've lost the battle that teachers unions leaders for some reason are saying do not judge us based on how we perform, judge us for how long we've been sitting in this chair. >> it used to be. the whole idea that teachers are bad guys is just insane. >> right. >> but it has come to that era. it's a distinction between teachers and teachers unions. but that gets lost a little bit because the teachers are the ones who are there so people start to turn against the

teachers too. >> so many of these teachers, mika, want to be in class in chicago right now. they're disgusted by what their union leadership has done. we'll also get to the cover of "fortune" magazine at the top of the hour. we'll be back with more on "morning joe." does your phone give you all day battery life ? droid does. and does it launch apps by voice while learning your voice ? launch cab4me. droid does. keep left at the fork. does it do turn-by-turn navigation ? droid does. with verizon, america's largest 4g lte network, and motorola, droid does. t $100 off select motorola 4g lte smartphones like the droid razr.

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this was the scene just a few moments ago, the unfurling flag of the united states of america over the area of the pentagon struck on september 11th. we'll be seeing scenes like that all morning. shanksville and also here in new york city at ground zero. mika mentioned before the documentary that airs on the discovery channel tonight called "the 9/11 surfer" a story of pasquale buzzelli who was in one of the buildings when it collapsed and survived. here's buzzelli describing what it felt like. >> i buried myself as close to the wall as possible to protect myself from anything falling through. it was the only way to protect myself. something heavy fell, i hit the wall. it was then that i felt the wall that i was next to and the base of the floor just crack open.

and give way. and that's when i knew right there and then that was it. the entire building was going. and i said to myself, my god, i can't believe this is how i'm going to die. >> pasquale buzzelli had a pregnant wife at home who was due to have a baby in november. he said at that point he saw a flash of white but then woke up three hours later looking up from his back at the sky on september 11th. we explain in the documentary, again tonight on the discovery channel, how exactly he survived that fall and we'll talk to pasquale buzzelli himself in our next hour on "morning joe." >> unbelievable. >> an incredible story. richard haass, thanks. when we return, george pataki and carl bernstein. and is it still okay to be rich in america?

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it is the top of the hour. this is a live look at the memorial at ground zero in new york city. also, there are remembrance at the pentagon this morning, the 11th anniversary of 9/11, also in shanksville, pennsylvania, of course. andy serwer is still with us, and joining the table

governor george pataki, still republican, carl bernstein is with us. >> still not a republican. >> oh, you never know. >> i know. >> so objective. >> i know. i know, carl. >> 4-1 -- >> you're good. >> i'm starting to wonder -- >> what are you talking about? >> well, you're starting to wonder because i'm saying the same thing i've said for 20 years and i'm conservative and i hate when my party goes to the left and bankrupts america. yeah. i've got no problem -- >> and in washington, prize-winning columnist and political analyst eugene robinson. >> also, still not a republican, 5-1. >> let's get to some politics this morning. >> curious. >> and we'll get to the cover. >> new polls offer a glimpse to the previous two weeks of political conventions. we'll start with the gallup

daily tracking poll shows president obama leading mitt romney by five points. two weeks ago, the president was leading romney by only one point. the new cnn poll shows the president leading 52% to 46% over mitt romney, the same poll conducted before the democratic national convention shows the two candidates tied at 48%. however, a new abc news washington post poll shows a much tighter race with the president and mitt romney in a statistical tie among likely voters. it should be noted that in the same poll the president holds a six-point lead among registered voters. the poll also posed a question, the romney campaign has been using to attack the president's economic record. are you better off now than you were four years ago? only 20% say they are currently better off. nearly half, 47% say their situation is about the same, with 32% saying they are worse off. >> so, governor, there seems to be a bounce, not only in these

national polls, which really don't matter at the end of the day, but also the romney people are seeing some internals in ohio and other swing states that are concerning them. what do they have to do to turn this around? >> well, they have to continue to remind the people the condition of the country today. and this president, sadly, almost four years after taking office is still trying to explain it all away by what happened before he became president. >> so why couldn't the republicans do that at their own convention? >> i think we can -- >> i'm saying why didn't they? because it was a terrible convention when you compare it to what the democrats did. i would suggest the democrats had a lot less to work with at their convention and somehow they put off a more compelling conviction. what happened? >> i think we didn't -- and we still don't, strongly as i support governor romney, we need to be better and sharpen our message more. we need to say something in simple terms. and one of the things i've been saying is take a position that a

middle class family in ohio sitting around the kitchen table can say, yes, governor romney's going to do that and i agree with it. he has an excellent economic plan, but it's 57 pages long, so many points, we need to distill it down to a thing that's simple to understand. and i think when it happens, the polls are close and we're going to see that turn around. >> it is, getting that message out to middle class voters, talking about what you're going to do. it's what the "wall street journal's" been talking about. it's what i talked about a couple of days ago. and laura ingraham, i think, yesterday, is now saying, you know, a lot of conservatives are starting to say you've got a great chance to win, what's your problem? and i think the problem is we've said here mitt romney doesn't want to give a clear, concise message to america. the "wall street journal" said it better than anybody. >> the campaign strategy overall is coming under some scrutiny

after romney conceded on "meet the press" he would keep parts of the president's health care plan, the editorial board has some advice for what romney should've said. and it says in part this, based on our reading of mr. romney's policies, he should've said i support president obama's goal of making sure sick people have insurance. we can't afford a vast increase of government control or drastic changes for the other 300 million americans. >> this is the important part right here. >> mr. romney's pre-existing calculations seems to be he can win the election without having to explain the economic moment or even his own policies. as this flap shows such vagueness carries its own political risks. now, conservative talk radio host laura ingraham said on her show monday, if you can't beat barack obama with this record, then shut down the party, shut it down, start new with new people. the criticisms echo what joe's

been saying. joe tweeted this over the weekend. romney will lose if he doesn't dramatically change his strategy. negative ads won't substitute for conservative ideas. and that tweet was picked up by websites. >> carl bernstein, it used to be so fun running against democrats because democrats were always afraid to say what they believed. so you would have them slipping back and forth. oh, do you believe this or do you believe that? and you just sit there and governor pataki knows what i'm talking about, and democrats would twist in the wind and you sit there and punch them in the face. why is it that republicans as the party is getting more conservative than ever have selected a guy that has decided as a "wall street journal" editorial page that i'm not going to tell anybody what i'm going to do if i'm president? >> i think because he's a captive of his own inability in the past to stay with a consistent message and to continually shift his position

on the most important issues of the era. but more than that, i don't think this is about inside baseball of changing your message. the reason he's in trouble is because of what the republican party is in washington. that's the real issue. that's what's going to beat romney if he gets beat. >> -- the republican party -- >> too late. >> no. ronald reagan, ronald reagan defined what the republican party was in 1980. >> early on. it's after the convention. he is a captain of the tea party, right? >> no, he's not. no, he's not. >> not only do i disagree with that -- >> i just want to say, the tea party knows what they believe and mitt romney doesn't. >> that's his second -- >> he's not a captive, he's not a captive of anybody. >> i'll tell you what he's a captive of -- >> he's been running on their platform until now. >> he's not -- >> hold on. i'm going to stop right here. >> aren't the american people as

unhappy with the democrats in washington as they are with the republicans? >> no. >> democratic washington insider. romney has never been in washington. he's been a governor and in the private sector. so i think he still has the ability to say that i am not washington, i will change it. the other guy has made it worse. >> i think you're right that people are angry as hell at the democrats as they should be because of failure to deal with some economic things and the president has been a weak leader in some ways. at the same time, there has been a republican obstructionism in washington on the basic economic questions of the day. the likes of which we have -- >> hold on, hold on. -- like harry reid and the democrats. they put out such responsible budgets every year. oh, wait, they haven't put out a budget in over 1,000 days. >> you can attack them on -- >> no, no, no -- obstructionism

when democrats are just as shameful on capitol hill. >> if republicans did not participate in what attempts were made at the recovery early on, they obstructed -- >> carl, carl -- >> that is utter nonsense. the ability to block the senate from acting and in the house, they were basically cut out of discussions. you know, one of the most telling things is that paul ryan who had advanced as a minority member of the house to advance a detailed budget couldn't -- the president couldn't even call him because they didn't have the contact information. here's the guy that ultimately became head of the appropriations of finance. >> barack obama -- the democrats owned washington for the first two years. this is just mum bow jumbo. >> wow. >> the president -- the president missed a big opportunity by failing to embrace simpson/bowles in a meaningful way. >> exactly. >> i agree.

i think it was a terrible thing to do. at the same time, we have throughout all of his basic economic attempts, the republican party has said no, no, no, no to increasing revenues, governor, am i right? >> no, no the to increasing revenues, to raising the marginal tax rate. they haven't said no to increasing revenue. by the way -- talking about obstructionism. this president said the worst thing in the world we can do is demonize. what does the president do? demonize it. >> go back to what paul ryan did on january -- >> hold on. >> it's september 11th, and it is the 11th year, and i know you started out this segment with the rising and you've been talking about it, but i just -- i can't help, but i'm sure everybody out there watching including all of us have a tremendous sense of loss and a tremendous feeling about the courage new yorkers and americans showed that day. and i don't want to sit here and talk politics and not do the

most important thing on september 11th, and that's remember what happened and how courageous people lost their lives and responded so courageously. >> well, i think that's why so important we have a civil conversation. and i think it's time for eugene to jump in. i have a question for you. gene, jump in. >> first of all, let me echo what governor pataki said. it is september 11th, a day that none of us will ever forget. you know, just getting back to the political discussion we were having, yes, the republicans in washington are a drag on mitt romney, but joe is right, mitt romney could define himself by telling people what he will do. if he thinks he can become president by not telling people what his policies are and what he will do, then i do believe he will lose. it's as simple as that. and he can't seem to make up his mind, you know, how are you going to deal with people with pre-existing conditions?

>> gene -- >> governor romney, what are you going to do? how are you going to make that work? it's a good thing. people want it. so tell us how you're going to do it. and if he can't do that, then, i don't think people are going to buy it. >> gene, you know, people keep trying to tie the tea party to mitt romney. what bothers me about that is love or hate the tea party, they know what they stand for. if that were only mitt romney's biggest problem, mitt romney's biggest problem and the "wall street journal" has said it. i said it a couple of days ago, laura ingraham has said it. more and more conservatives who don't feel they have to sleepwalk off the edge of the cliff and lose yet another election are all saying the same thing. governor romney, tell us what you believe. tell us how you will change america. be bold. and as the "wall street journal" said, his pre-existing decision has been, i'm not going to tell

anybody what i believe in and i just tell people to vote against barack obama instead of voting for me. that is a recipe for disaster. >> i think that's absolutely right. and if the democrats had to, i think they could -- they could do their best running against the tea party, running against the house republicans. they could try that, but they don't have to at this point. they can run against mitt romney because they're running against a cipher. they're running against 57-page economic plan that nobody understands and that when you look at it doesn't really spell out a direction in which romney wants to take the country. and they're running against his refusal to be more specific. it doesn't make sense to me. >> the question then is, what is mitt romney held captive by? you were talking about an inability to communicate or whatever else. don't freak out. i wonder if he is held captive. >> look at me. do i look like i would ever freak out? >> i'm just warning you.

what i have to say when you hear what i've got to say. i wonder if he's held captive by george w. bush. >> i'm sorry. that was close to a freakout. >> i laughed. go ahead. >> i wonder, andy serwer, i'll take it to you, if there's anything that we happen to know about mitt romney and paul ryan's policies that are any different than george w. bush's policies when it comes to economic and foreign policy and -- >> so tired, you're making me so tired. >> and if that's not the case, why wouldn't they have him at the convention? there's a guy not at the convention, are they ham strung by the policies? >> george bush didn't want to go to the convention. >> george bush knew what he believed in, by the way. mitt romney doesn't. >> -- the republicans are not appealing to young people enough, they're not appealing to women enough. >> what about mitt romney's policy -- >> and they need to change the direction of the party to make sure that it's pointed at those

groups. because otherwise if you're getting male, white voters only, the demographics are going against you year after year. >> governor, mika is asking you how are mitt romney's policies different -- >> how do they bring us back? >> you know how they're different? george w. bush knew what he believed in. he said this is what i'm going to do. mitt romney and, listen, you know we sort of joked how you had a tepid endorsement for mitt romney, a lot of other republicans had a tepid endorsements for mitt romney. there was a reason. we didn't know then and we still don't know now whether he's going to stand up and fight from the battleground of ideas. >> i disagree with that. i'm confident he will fight on the battleground of ideas. and if you want one symbol of that, it was picking paul ryan. i think what it does is it shows that he has the courage to pick someone, the only one in congress, by the way, who laid

out a specific proposal to deal with the hideous issues. the deficit, the lack of job growth, the lack of confidence in the future, that this administration has created. i agree with andy, though, my party does need, i disagree we don't need to change the focus of our party, we have to do more to show how those policies are going to impact positively the lives of young people. the lives of latinos and other immigrants. they're the ones that can't get the jobs. they're the ones that are going to inherit a $16 trillion deficit with nothing to show for it. we can connect to them with our policies. we haven't done it yet. >> when joe says, what can we believe in? he can't say i believe in that then and now i believe in this. he has this problem as a lifetime politician who has

never been consistent and voters know it. secondly, back to the governor's point about mr. ryan. on january 20th, 2009, election day. election night in washington, ryan was one of nine members of the house and senate republicans who gathered together that night and met and said our job is to keep barack obama from having a second term. it's been well reported what happened at thateeting. and this is a huge problem. because they've put -- >> because democrats have never done that. this makes me so tired and i don't mean to be disrespectful to you on 9/11. this makes me so tired because we were saying let's not fight on 9/11. i don't mean to be disrespectful, carl, but this is just -- this is oversimplification. this suggests that democrats don't think the same thing about george w. bush. >> i don't think on inauguration day -- >> it happened -- >> no, no, it doesn't. >> it happened when fdr was elected.

it happened when nixon was elected. it happened when reagan was elected. >> it did not. >> oh, if you think the press wasn't after nixon, democrats weren't after nixon, carl bernstein. >> if you think, joe. >> that was a good line. >> we are buddies. >> let me finish. if you think that on inauguration day of richard nixon or george w. bush or george h.w. bush, the democrats got together and said on inauguration eve our big job is to beat this guy and stop him from getting any legislative initiative, it didn't happen. it never happens. >> carl might be right, it didn't happen on inaugural day, it probably happened at election night where they said, we've got to get this guy out of here. >> there's been real cooperation over the years between the parties. president obama's weakness has been that he has been unable to make it happen. >> eugene sighing. >> well, i was sighing because,

you know, and the fact that we know about that meeting and that they all participated in it. that's kind of unusual. but i take joe's point that, yes, the party that's out of power wants to get back in power. so let's stipulate that. but to the point about governor pataki's point about policies, actually the republican party does need to change the policies if it wants to be a forward-looking party. it'll have to change policies on immigration, for example, and the way it talks about immigration and the way it looks at latino immigrants and their families if it wants to be competitive in the future. that's one example. >> okay. before we go to break, finally, is it okay to be rich? >> i hope so. >> okay. tell us about the cover of "fortune" magazine. >> thank you. >> andy? >> oh, well, it's a question we ask, it's a bit of -- is it okay

to be rich in america? yes, it is okay to be rich in america and we ask this because there's an awful lot of rich bashing going on. it's something that happens historically in this country from time to time, but americans really don't like it. it doesn't play very well at all because americans want to become rich. so we want to stress maybe it's not a great idea for politicians to look to take the rich down, rather it should be their aim to lift everybody up. and the other thing is, there's a lot of misconceptions about the rich that they get rich at the expense of everyone else, that they're a static group and they don't pay any taxes. these are the kinds of things we looked at and said, these things aren't true. >> they pay less taxes now than they ever have. >> they do in terms of the people who are working on wall street. those people because of carried interest, yes. i would say the tax code is skewed for the rich. that doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed, it shouldn't be fixed, and it should. in terms of carried interest, i

definitely believe it should be fixed. >> and so how do we stop people on wall street from paying 15%, 16% tax rates while -- >> change the tax code. >> is it carried interest? is it low capital gains tax rates? what is it? >> mostly carried interest. that's to my mind the problem. mitt romney doesn't agree with me on that point. but i think that, you know, it's really unconscionable that that form of income is treated differently from other forms of investments. >> governor, the people have elected you three times would agree with that. it's just not right for these guys on wall street to be paying 15% taxes on $30 million $40 million, $50 million of profit. >> i agree with you. but when you have a government and this president that insists we're going to raise the marginal rate up and up and up, people are going to fight harder for the loopholes. thatst why, carl, what you were saying, i agree with completely bowles/simpson was not a perfect

solution, but as close as you can get. lower those rates so you don't need the loopholes, get rid of the loopholes so people will pay lower rates but they'll be required to pay them because they're not going to be able to hide behind something. >> well, we're going to go to that about after this election, come next summer, we're going to have a kind of crash of forces that if we don't go to a formula of cut entitlements, raise revenue, some taxes among other things among the loopholes, look what's going to happen in january. >> that should've happened a decade ago. >> when we have the expiration of tax cuts -- we have such a looming problem in january. and no attention to this problem by the people in this campaign, by either party, what do we do in january? when we face another economic cliff and neither party has addressed it. >> governor pataki, stay with us

if you can, carl bernstein, thank you so much. and eugene, we'll be looking for your column in today's "washington post," thank you so much. andy serwer, thank you, as well. and the new cover of "fortune" magazine asks, is it okay to be rich in america? our next guest rep counts decisions that would change the world. and also ahead, the look at the new establishment list. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ ow ner ] i need to expand to meet the needs of my growing business. but how am i going to fund it? and i have to find a way to manage my cash flow better.

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my nation will work with the u.n. security council to meet our common challenge. if iraq's regime defies us ag n

again, the world must move deliberately, decisively to hold iraq to account. we will work with the u.n. security council for the necessary resolutions. but the purposes of the united states should not be doubted. the security council resolutions will be enforced. the just demands of peace and security will be met. our action will be unvoidable. >> 28 past the hour, that was former president bush in 2002 in a speech that was reportedly not meant to be given at all to the u.n. that's according to contributing editor of "vanity fair" who writes about that moment and other details of the first 500 days after the september 11th attacks in his number book "500 days: secrets and lies in the

terror wars." and you have a piece in the "new york times" that reads in part this, kurt, welcome to the show. the direct warnings to mr. bush about the possibility of al qaeda and al qaeda attack began in the spring of 2001, by may 1st, the cia told the white house of a report that a group presently in the united states was planning a terrorist operation. weeks later on june 22nd, the daily brief reported that al qaeda strikes could be imminent, although suggested the time frame was flexible. but some in the administration considered the warning to be just bluster. an intelligence official and a member of the bush administration both told me in interviews that the neo conservative leaders who had recently assumed power at the pentagon were warning the white house that the cia had been fooled. according to the theory, bin laden was merely pretending to be planning an attack to distract the administration from saddam hussein whom the neo conservatives saw as a greater

threat. and you mentioned the article that you saw some brief proceedings, the notorious ones that get all the press. that you read excerpts of and that they lead you to an inescapable conclusion the administration's reaction to what mr. bush was told in the weeks before the briefing reflected significantly more negligence than has been disclosed. what did you see in those briefings that would state that? >> well, it was the constant reiteration of, you know, there are people in the united states, they're going to attack, it is they're going to be large casualties. those were the words that were used. and that is coming before late june. and by late june, the cia's coming back basically stomping their feet saying we're not making this up. >> if i may, was there something specific in the briefings that would lead them to be able to act in order to prevent? or are you just saying there

were warnings? >> absolutely there was stuff that could be done. it's one of the conceits of this that people have come back and said -- >> well -- >> unless you say when, where, and how, you can't do anything. in 1999, december of 1999, the clinton administration got or the cia, the same people in the cia got the warnings that something big was coming. and the entire government went on alert and the counterterrorist center burned through their budget for 2000 by january 15th because they were throwing so much into it. >> but you're characterizing attitudes saying negligence or dismissive which, you know what? that's -- you can believe one thing and another person can believe another. what specifically did you see in the briefings that would lead you to believe the bush administration dismissed the opportunity to keep america safe? i want specifics. >> you're overstating -- what you're saying is where in here does it say it?

it's not in here. what you've got is here's the warning. we're not doing anything, and the fact, you've got to go back and look at what's going on. john ashcroft was asked, pump up our budget for counterterrorism. no. you had what are the priorities for the justice department? you had 13 of them. terrorism was not one of them. and he was briefed on july 5th as to what was coming. and so you have to not just say does the -- does it say the world trade center will be attacked on 9/11? of course it doesn't say that. there's never intelligence like that. but what it does have is the -- what the people in the intelligence communities tell me is the sharpest warnings that have ever been delivered. there's one thing i want to make clear, though, and this is something i don't think people get. the bush administration came in after the republicans were out for eight years. al qaeda developed over that

time. when the republicans went out nation states were the threat. when they came back in, it's a very odd jump to say a bunch of people sitting in a mountain top in afghanistan are the threat. and they were looking at nation states and that was not an unreasonable thing to do. they had a quick period of time they had to change their mind. they didn't buy into it. >> kurt, we should be very clear about what you're saying in the "new york times" piece this morning. a lot of people would read this and say the bush administration willingly looked the other way when they had these reports. if you look -- go back to the may 1st briefing, you list about five or six before the notorious one. what are you saying about what the bush administration did exactly? >> pretty much what i'm just saying now is that they got this information and they weren't looking at it in the context of here's this huge threat that's developed. look at what the pentagon said. what's the nation state that's

backing them? oh, we think it's iraq. and so, it was a frame of mind that was not unreasonable for them to have because they hadn't been getting the intelligence until very recently about the evolution and change of al qaeda. and or of the nature of the threat. it's -- you can't understate what a huge transition -- >> all right. governor -- >> iic i think this is incredib unfortunate. because, first of all, having been there on september 11th and for weeks, months, thereafter, president bush provided inspired effective leadership. and september 11th, everything changed. and to look 11 years later and say, this was happening before september 11th in the summer, and to go through and selectively take out quotes and say you should have done that, you should have done that, i think is incredibly unfair and a disservice to history. and by the way, you know, if you

look back, there are those who could've said president roosevelt was at fault for pearl harbor. look at -- >> there are people that do say that. >> but the government didn't look back and say let's blame the president. it came together to fight an important war. we came together to fight an important war. you could also look back, kurt, and say that you got intelligence we were going to be attacked. of course, we'd already been attacked. the towers were blown up in '93. and i don't think it serves us any point to say that then the clinton administration treated it as a criminal act as opposed to a terrorist act. they blew up the coal, destroyed our embassy with hundreds of losses of life. and the prior administration never said we are in a war with al qaeda. we are engaged in a post nation state antiterrorist climate. they didn't say that. so now -- >> they did. >> no, they didn't. >> 1998. >> no, they didn't.

>> we are declaring war on al qaeda, it was an intelligence war working with the northern alliance. we weren't committing troops. but there absolutely within 1998, dissemination of we're at war. >> well, hideously ineffective because the planning, training all came out of afghanistan. and if they were back then, maybe you could have said it would never happened if in '99 and 2000 they were more aggressive and had a more aggressive policy. but it doesn't serve a point to try to say, oh, this party or this president is awful. >> he was a leader at a hideous time. >> that's not what i'm saying. >> what i am saying is, we cannot say i'm not going to pay attention to history. that part of history is my -- your part of the story is saying clinton did this, clinton did that, clinton did the other. you know what? you're right. now let's go to talking about

the summer of 2001. and saying we can't talk about it, we can't learn from it because it's upsetting. >> of course. >> it's completely wrong. it's 11 years later. >> of course we can talk about it and learn from it, but it should be done in a fair way. not in a way where i haven't read your book, thank god, and i don't intend to, but just looking at the jacket of the quotes in the back, these are selectively taken for a specific purpose of making the bush administration look bad. this is not about history. i don't mind history. >> here's the first page or the second page. i'm not going to find it here, but what you've got is -- hold on. bush's down home veneer disguised a keen mind. he expected to be dealing with an intellectual lightweight reliant on his age for guidance and the subtleties of state craft, instead it was bush who

peppered the briefers with questions while his subordinates stayed quiet. so the problem is, if you look at the jacket of a book, don't judge a book by its cover. if you look at the jacket of a book and say here's what it says, you can't do that. and when you read this book -- >> well -- >> hold on. when you read this book, what you end up with is, in fact, a very nuanced telling of the story. one of the things you want to know who has reacted to this book best? members of the bush administration. i've gotten calls from people saying that's what happened. and so, you know, the realities here are we cannot stand back and say bush did everything right. he did. >> absolutely. >> he made some very horrific. >> i know of no one who has -- >> we can't say clinton did everything right. >> this is an incredible debate. jon meacham, i'll let you put the period at the end of the sentence as our "morning joe" theologian. >> which might offer some

resolution. would you contend that if al gore had become president because he was in a continuation of bill clinton's administration the results would have been different? >> that's an interesting question. >> well, if things were different they'd be the same. i have no idea. >> oh, no. >> then you can't say, well, they should have been doing something. what does that mean? >> well, i'm not saying they should be doing something. what i'm saying is here is the information they got, here's what they didn't do compared to what was done in the past. now, i don't say anything. what i'm telling you is -- here's what the -- one of the things in the article this morning is also in the book is that members of the counterterrorist center had a meeting on july 5th and said let's put in for a mass transfer. because they're not listening to us. and this is going to go down and it's going to be ugly and we're going to be held accountable for it. i want out. >> all right. >> and the book is "500 days:

secrets and lies in the terror wars." thank you very much for being on the show. governor pataki, thank you for standing your ground in this segment. coming up, 9/11 surfer, we'll talk to the man whose extraordinary survival story during the 9/11 attacks has inspired a new documentary. we'll be right back. i don't spend money on gasoline.

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coming up, the kings and queens of silicon valley. inside "vanity fair's" new establishment list next on "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 47 past the hour. and here with us now from "vanity fair" is the contributing editor. how are you doing? >> i'm very good. >> here to talk about -- >> my friend, as well? >> yes. >> very good.

>> the 2012 new establishment and powers that be list. what an issue. >> what? jon meacham, what's going on here? >> what are you doing? what are you doing? >> what is she doing? >> i -- you know, my kids might be up. >> i'm sitting there looking like -- >> that's a leg. >> that is a -- >> has that picture been broadcast? >> it kind of got into the photo shoot, what can i say? my father's not happy. my husband's not happy. >> cut it out. so we get a list. >> we have a list. >> they're happy. >> no. let's talk about the list. what are you doing? >> what? i'm holding -- >> the new establishment -- >> what is that? >> help me out here -- >> this is like harry truman and lauren -- >> there you go. i just needed the piano. you know what she said?

she said i'm about to channel lauren bacal. >> i think you should show that picture if we can. >> yes. >> sorry. >> let's go to the list. >> so you have a list. you make this list. i love lists. tell me about your list. >> the new establishment list is really a list of the disrupters. the people who are changing the way -- >> the disrupters. >> the disrupters, that's right. in the way we do business. and you look at -- when we started the list, we started thinking about the list in january, we thought it was going to be facebook with the ipo coming up and everyone was all about facebook. and then obviously in may the ipo did not turn out very well and they really lost half their value and so we took -- >> going the direction of netscape. >> a little bit. i think what you have -- when you look at facebook, you have to remember they do have close to 1 billion users, they are profitable, but they clearly have serious issues. are they going to be able to

monetize mobile? and i think they've got competition, so i think that's -- >> let's talk about the top of the list. obviously the icon. >> apple. >> the god of silicon valley passes away. >> right. >> it wasn't a slam dunk, but they would do well. but their stock is up over 50% since steve jobs died. and he he -- and tim cook has really done a great job of changing the culture a little bit, but in terms of the products, there's a big announcement next week. and today a study came out in which they said they think actually that apple might be able to do what the president and the congress and fed hasn't been able to do, which is to effect the economy next week with the release of the iphone 5. if a company can do that and they're the most valuable company ever. >> let's fly through this list. number three, a guy who i think has been the most underrated superstar for years. >> i agree. >> this guy has changed the way americans shop more than anybody else on the planet. >> how they read books.

>> how they read book, how they live. >> he's the ultimate disrupter. jeff bezos, ammon. >> go to a best buy store, look where it was today and ten years ago. try to find a barnes and noble. this guy has disrupted everything. >> absolutely. >> so let's go to the other list of powers that be. number one, michael bloomberg. number two, brian roberts and steve berk. >> do you know them? >> we know them a little bit. >> well, they own the pipes and they own the content now. so i think that's a pretty powerful combination. >> is that a first if. >> well, i think that's -- >> time warner, but then they spun it off. so i think comcast is really something to pay attention to. >> tell me about number eight, jay-z and beyonce. >> jay-z has had a great year with the album with kanye west and when you think about how he amplified his investment which is 1/15 of 1%.

when they talk about the nets they're talking about jay-z. beyonce, they have a baby together. they copyrighted the baby's name. probably going to have a line of clothing. she's in a movie. they're a power house couple. >> you have a lot of pop stars here, you have rupert murdoch. >> we do. >> you also have the head of time warner. a lot of really powerful, great people. >> there's going to be some twitter pushback, i think, that michael lke allen is only 19. >> i agree. >> most important, i think number 20, people talk about how number one is good. >> yeah. >> you want to be 20. >> historically 20. >> it's a special spot. >> thank you, alex. >> mika and joe. >> describe what they bring to the table or in mika's case -- >> to the table? on the table. >> on the table. well, when we look at your show your influence goes far beyond your ratings, the press. >> thank god.

>> because the people that watch your show are the most influential. you set for the course of the day what the political news is going to be. you set the political agenda. why does david axelrod spend so much time here, because you're report. that's why you're on our list. >> because there's a lot to say. >> there is a lot to say. so how are these lists changing? what's the biggest, you talk about disrupters. what's the trend on this year's list? >> the big change is this list used to be people with all of the ceos from media companies and entertainment companies. now it's really more about technology. that's the big shift that occurred during, i would say, the past couple of years. and so when you look at the list now it's all about technology. but obviously the media companies, the content companies are very important. but technology is changing our world. >> we're going to look for the new establishment and powers that be list in the new issue of "vanity fair." betsy lack, thank you so much.

>> a lot of other great stuff in this issue. >> a good one. >> maureen's story, unbelievable. michael lewis' story on barack obama. wow. >> nine months with the president. >> nine months with the president. we've got michael later this week. >> betsy, it's great to see you. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. >> most importantly, 50 years of james bond. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. hey america, even though slisa rinna is wearing the new depend silhouette briefs for charity to prove how great the fit is even under a fantastic dress. the best protection now looks, fits and feels just like underwear. we invite you to get a free sample and try one on too. to meet the needs of my growing business. but how am i going to fund it?

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up next, where we stand 11 years later. "morning joe" continues in just a moment. in america today we're running out of a vital resource we need to compete on the global stage. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone's ready with the know how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready. make sure you're ready. at devry.edu/knowhow. ♪ mom's smartphone...

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast.

as you take a live look at new york city, welcome back to "morning joe." back with us onset, john meacham and the president of the council on foreign relations, richard hoss. here we are. >> here we are. >> 11 years later. >> 11 years later. "usa today" is marking the day. you know, there are so many things that remind people of this day, but i'm struck by new yorkers talking about the sky. i went out yesterday to pick up kate at the bus stop and our neighbor worked downtown on that day. and we didn't say anything. looked up in the sky. it was a beautiful, beautiful, vivid september day. the weather was perfect. and we both looked at each other and without even saying

anything, we're like, wow. like we knew this day was coming. and so i asked, you know, where were you? and she started talking about being downtown and being blocks from the building and running uptown and only wanting to see her kids. of course, mika, you were -- you were at cbs and ran down from 57th street with your camera crew and were down there for how long? >> for weeks. but, you know, the sky yesterday, actually, every year since then, when i see that blue, vivid, cool air, bright blue sky, i think of 9/11. >> you noticed it, too? >> oh, yeah. >> i wonder how many people looked up and saw that. >> i looked at my -- the date on my iphone and it was like, oh, here we go. >> because you knew it. >> yeah. absolutely. >> and you were down there for

weeks. >> john meacham, how do we put -- i don't know how -- what americans were thinking on december 7th, 1956, you know, but here we are 11 years later and, of course, unlike that war which ended four years later, i say 56, i guess it would be 52, the end of the war, this war continues. yesterday news that al qaeda's number two killed in yemen. and we're still in afghanistan, kids that were -- how old would they have been? on a bus stop that were 6 years old, you know, waiting for a bus going to first grade when this happened. they are now fighting and dying in afghanistan. the war continues. >> it's longest war in american history, so there's really no analogy. in terms of dates, you know, the 20th century, everyone -- it is

often said, everyone remembers where they were on december 7th f , for a lot of people, april 12th, 1945, when fdr died, november 22nd, 1963, april 4th, 1968, dr. king. and september 11th. and i don't think there's going to be any question about its role in both the memory of people and in the history of the country because it did set in motion this remarkable decade of expensive, seemingly endless conflict. >> you know, willie, though, and, of course, we're in the middle of a campaign so you can't say this, you just can't say this because there are too many haters out there that will hate hearing you say anything nice about either side. but here we are. let's just be positive for a second here. you know, i remember seeing and taking polls right after 9/11, how many of you believe that you

or your family members are going to die in a terrorist attack? and the numbers were just extraordinarily elevated. everybody knew another attack was coming. is it okay -- i'm just curious. is it okay for us to stop for a second and say, even if we disagreed with some of george bush's policies and even if we disagreed with some of barack obama's policies in this area, which we do, and we've criticized both, is it okay to say, thank you, mr. president, thank you, president bush, thank you, president obama, because while it was ugly and while we still disagree with a lot that this president's done and the last president's done, we haven't had another attack. and that is pretty damn remarkable, remarkable work by the president, by the cia, by the fbi, by new york city police, by our entire nation

security apparatus. it's so easy for us to attack them. can we just stop today and thank president bush and thank president obama, thank our men and women in the cia, the fbi, and everybody that's kept us safe for 11 years? >> i think we could do that. i think we're all glad we haven't been hit again. we can never know perhaps how many other attempts were thwarted by intelligence agencies. we did get lucky a couple of times. i'm thinking of the underwear bomber, richard reid, the times square bomber. we got lucky in those cases. but on this day i think mostly of the families of people who died in the buildings. i grew up across the river in new jersey. 12 people in our town. a lot of kids who are now in their 20s were in high school, middle school, have spent the last 11 years without their dad or without their mom. and those are the people i think about today. >> and you are narrating a discovery -- >> discovery channel, yeah. >> it's an incredible story.

>> unbelievable. >> when we look back and tell stories to our children about everything that happened on that day, to help them sort of put it into perspective. this is one that stands out. i can't even begin to describe it. but tell us about it. >> it's a story of the 9/11 surfer. this guy who became known in the hours even after the collapse of the towers. there were these reports out there that a man had fallen from the 86th floor and somehow survived by writing a piece of debris down. firefighters reported that it was true and emergency room doctor reported it was true. it ended up not being true at the end of the day. it was one of those stories we held on to that day. but now ten years later, we have found the real 9/11 surfer. it turns out it was the 22nd floor. still pretty remarkable to fall from the 22nd floor and survive. he's going to be on this show. >> so, mika, i remember when the show first started and i don't want you to get into all of it because you talked about it before but i remember when the show first started, not knowing about your background and every

time 9/11 came up, you know, you would start tearing up off camera. you would start crying. it was, for you, you were down there and there's so many people that you still see today that you were connected with then. one was byron pitts who w, as t tower fell, you were right there. you didn't know. you said you just froze and he grabbed you because you didn't -- you just didn't know what was happening. your mind couldn't process that. >> i couldn't compute what was happening because the building was literally beginning to crumble from the top and come down on us. and roll toward us. and he pulled us away and we hid in a school for, i don't know, 24 hours after the school right by the twin towers. yeah, there were people that we worked with through day and night covering the story that

you just bonded with forever. and then there are so many people who never got to go home, so it's sort of hard to talk about without thinking that it's a little bit indulgent. >> one other thing that i saw over news overnight, now that cancer has been added to a list of reasons that people died on 9/11. you said that you walked around, that you just intuitively knew that what you were breathing in was awful. you said before others you were walking around, you had a shirt and you would wrap it around your fais. you wouldn't breathe your air down there. >> yes. cbs gave us gas masks. we wore them. except when we were doing live shots. my husband, who is an investigative reporter actually covered one of the first deaths due to these first responders who were down there for weeks and months who died from breathing in and ingesting all of this. >> by the way, while the

government was saying that everything was okay. >> okay. go ahead and breathe the air. >> yeah. >> no. >> and by the way, jim has a retweeted -- jim has a story on the state of security 11 years later. richard, we have so much to talk about as far as where the country's gone over the past 11 years. i don't really know where to start. iraq was obviously a tragic detour. afghanistan now appears to be a tragic, endless war. what have we gotten -- let's start by talking about what have we gotten right? what have these two administrations who seem to be polar opposites but now seem to be tied together in their approach, what have they gotten right? >> it actually turns out we've gotten a lot right. you mentioned the fact there hasn't been a real follow on to 9/11. it's in part good fortune, it's in pard good work, but also the

terrorists lost their base in afghanistan after 9/11. bin laden has been killed. i thought what we saw in the arab world with all of these upheavals that no one was coming out there chanting al qaeda slogans. these guys know how to destroy but they don't know how to create. they really don't know how to inspire. so i think in some ways we've learned that as bad as 9/11 was, it wasn't a turning point because these guys don't represent an alternative. >> they did not start a revolution. >> abs liuteally not. >> in fact. they lost the battle for the hearts and mind of arab world. >> there's that. and people make fun of globalization and multilateral sichl. even with countrieses like china and russia, we do work in anti-terrorism. homeland security is a global effort. if you made a career choice to become a terrorist your working environment has deteriorated today as opposed to 11 years ago. >> it's miserable. >> drone strikes. you're working -- the entire

reorientation of the american intelligence and law enforcement community. one of the reasons 9/11 happened is intelligence was not particularly sorroriented towar counter terrorism. people talk about our failure to connect the dots. sure, we didn't connect the dots because that was not a priority. people weren't looking for it. essentially we've become much better. the problem is we're not perfect. and one of the sad things about 9/11, i'm thinking about it today, is these guys are still at it and i think we have to accept almost in the way that we fight disease, this is out there. and these guys are going to continues to be pushing. and one day they will get successful. it may not be of the scale on 9/11, it could get worse. this is now part of the environment, if you will, in which we live. it's part of the super structure. this is not a war in a stra traditional sense where you banquish the enemy and you have sign a treaty. this is is something that continues on a low level and will be a part of our futures. >> john, were you in the city? >> yes.

>> on 9/11? >> yes. >> i was just going to say it was so striking. i had just left washington and went back home to pennsylvania. it was so striking to see how americans, not just in pensacola, but, you know, i remember seeing flags going up everywhere in pensacola. all over the place, going up to philadelphia, i mean, all over america, people, most shockingly, coming to new york and people weren't honking horns. i mean, that was kind of nice. it really is remarkable how americans came together from september 11th, sadly, i hate to say this, until up through march of 2003, right before the iraq war. we really were united in a way that we haven't been in so long. and, of course, things have only deteriorated. i mean, i guess -- i don't know

that time. >> in my memory of any event, there was the flags, the unity, the god bless america, came on the 12 th. the 11th was, as president bush said, was a day of fire and it was so hard to know what was happening. i mean, there were reports of bombings and fires on the mall. there were -- we didn't know how many airplanes there were. you forget the fall of the war, the chaotic moment of wondering when it's over. >> having no idea, and i've got to say george w. bush regained his footing when he came here and stood on -- but i remember -- i remember that press conference when he was in louisiana and being horrified by how scared the president of the united states looked, how disoriented he looked, how it seemed like they did not know

where they were going. and i just want to do a hat tip right here, which, again, in this environment you probably aren't supposed to do, you know what, while george bush looked scared and disoriented, that day, that day only, rudy giuliani stepped up and he became america's mayor on that day and he kept people advised of what was going on and was a great leader for that time. >> it was one of the great acts of spiritual and popular leadership that we'll ever see. and, you know, mayor giuliani's a big chircilean, not just the cigars, but he was reading in that days and weeks a book called "five days in may" which reconstructs the war cabinet debates in may of 1940 between churchill and chamberlain. and it was just a marvelous case

of leadership, of being there. >> and like churchill, we're not comparing you to churchill, but for that time, though, like churchill, part of it was leadership but part of it was a great act, telling people oh we oh and by the way, that's what kept the british people's head in the game in 1940. and that -- we needed that on september 11th. >> right. and i would argue, and again, this goes to your point about saying things in this climate, that, in fact, president bush's rhetoric through the fall and winter of '01-os '02 did prepare the country for exactly what richard was talking about. there is going to be no missouri signing, this is a war without traditional boundaries, this is a asymmetrical warfare. i think people understand that.

i think where the -- i think the american public clearly understood this was not something we had experienced before, where i believe the covenant began to crack was when the pursuit of more conventional wars was undertaken a reaction to it. when we come back, it's being called the last untold survival story from the splerch attacks. we'll bring in the new men who inspired the new documentary "the 9/11 surfer." we'll be right back.

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♪ back on the 64th floor, pasquale had no idea what was going on so he called home.

his wife louise was in bedresting. by that time she was seven months pregnant. >> i said, louise, i said, you know, please, i'm okay. don't be alarmed. don't be worry pipd said, imperfectly fine. what's wrong. what's wrong? you know, as soon as i say that, what's wrong. i'm okay. just do me a favor. just put the television on and just tell me what you see. >> i knew that it was his building as opposed to the south tower because his had the antenna on top. and i just said, oh, my god, pasquale, your building is on fire. >> that was a clip from the new documentary "the 9/11 surfer" which debuts tonight on the discovery channel. joining us now onset is bass quail buzzelli who survived. he and his wife louise is here with us. still looking for a publisher, i understand. it's an incredible story. i'm sure somebody is going to pick it up after they hear this. thank you for coming in.

>> thank you. >> pasquale, set the stage a little bit. you're an engineer for the port authority. walk us through the early morning for you. >> went through my normal routine. getting up in the morning. my wife was still sleeping. very pregnant at the time. and i remember the night before i was watching monday night football and i got up maybe a little bit later than i should have. so i ended up getting in to work a little later. and because of that, i was actually in the elevator going to the 64th floor, the express elevator. that's when i first felt the impact from the first plane hit the north tower. i was actually in the elevator at the time. >> a lot of people will ask, i know louise was asking you that day, why did you stay in the building so long. i think it was 80 minutes after impact before you decided it was time to go down. why did you stay? >> everyone asked me that question. a lot of factors. once i finally reached the floor, everyone who decided to evacuate had evacuated already. so it was myself and the gentleman in the elevator, bill,

who joined 14 others on the floor, 16 of us total. they had decided to stay. my boss at the time had called down to the security desk and he was told to stay and wait until help arrives. there was thought that let's keep the stairway clear because i was also in the 93 bombing and i had to evacuate at that time and they corrected a lot of deficiencies but the stairs at that time acted like chimneys so they were filled with smoke. so some people were hesitant leaving until they knew it was clear or safe to go down. some people wanted to keep the stairs clear so that firemen could actually reach the point of impact and also allow others that were injured to get by. so by staying out of the stairs we thought it was the best thing to do until we were told to go. honestly, not knowing the building would ever collapse, there was no reason to, i guess, rush or be, you know, scared at that point. it was well lit, functioning office. >> is this when you called your wife?

where were you when you made the call to your wife? >> as soon as i reached the floor and i spoke to my boss pat, i said, pat, what happened? and he said, i don't know. i was knocked out in my chair. i said, let me call my wife. she's at home. i don't want her seeing this. i knew the television, the media, you know, reports things right away. i said she's going to know before i know what happened. >> you did. you saw the antenna on the top of the tower. you call him up. did you say get the hell out of there? >> he basically called me and woke me up. he said, louise, if you turn on the tv let me know if you see anything. i did. i said, pasquale, your building is on fire. the top of your building is on fire. as i sat and listened a little bit longer i heard the newscaster say we think a plane hit the world strayed center. i said they think a plane hit. he wanted to know where in regards to the building, was it hit, was it like high, low, or, you know. >> middle. >> we figured he was a little bit -- he was below it, thank god. >> i was just going to add to when the tower eventually falls, we were just talking about this, i had the same experience with

my sister-in-law. you're sitting thinking, you just watched on television your husband, the father of your unborn child, dionne tv. >> uh-huh. >> what's the feeling like and what happens for you after that? >> that feeling was, you know, total helplessness. just total -- i wanted to jump through the television screen. i just kept screaming no, no, no! i felt like everybody in my body just drained out. and i -- when it finally fell, i mean, i couldn't even watch anymore because i had watched the second plane hit and then tower two come down and then i was trying to say, you know, don't think it, it's not going to happen. and it did happen. it was just, you know, i basically lost my life at that point. >> but little did you know a miracle had just taken place. pasquale, if you can, recount what happened as you're going down the stairs and everything gives way. >> eventually when we decided to

leave it was after the south tower collapsed. i think it was a good thing, but i didn't know the south tower had collapsed because where our office was located was on the northwest corner and the way the building was set up you couldn't see the south tower from that angle. it was blocked. so we felt this rumbling and reattributed it to maybe part of the building, plane, or something collapsing up above. that's when we decided to gather our things and head down. the smoke started filling on the floor. we entered i believe it was stairway b and started making our decent down the stairs. we had reached probably the 40s and encountered firemen sitting there exhausted taking a break. they had all their gear on drenched with sweat. i remember stepping over them, in between them, to try to get by. they said just keep going. it's a clear run. just keep going. we encountered some more firemen in the 30s. one of them said get off on the elevator on the 24th floor. we all just with resounding

everyone right away, no, we're not getting into an elevator at this point. and as i was going down the stairs i remember passing and looking 26, 25, 24, this is where we could get off but we're not. and it was only a couple of flights later when all of a sudden i heard this tremendous loud freight train type of noise from above. the railing, the stairs started shaking violently. in that split second, i didn't know. i thought something was falling through the stairs and just in order to protect myself as much as possible, i just dove on to the next landing. i buried myself in the corner, laid on the floor next to the wall trying to protect myself from anything that was falling. i had nowhere to run. curled up in a feet tatal posit. i just prayed at that point. as i was praying, the wall cracked and the floor gave way. that's when i started to free-fa free-fall. i realized at that point, oh, my god, this is how i'm going to

die. this is it. you know, you always wonder how you're going to die. first thought, oh, my god, i'm going to die, this is it. please protect my wife, unborn child, hope. i prayed for a quick death. and i just stayed tucked into a fetal position. i felt this sandblaster, abrasive kind of air. i was getting hit, impacts. i saw flashes of light from impacts. you know, if you ever get hit with a baseball or something, puncture something, you see a flash. i guess from the impacts of falling, i saw several flashes of light and one bright flash. and a split second later i opened up my eyes and i was just sitting there totally numb, looking up at a blue sky. then it got dark from the smoke and everything. i started to cough. i started to feel pain in my leg. and i said, i couldn't even believe at that point that i was alive. and i survived that. there was nothing above me. >> do you have any sense for how

you fell from the 22nd floor, which is the way you identified it, you landed on a rumble that most people think is about seven stories high. we're talking about a 15-story free-fall, on theoretically a piece of concrete. that's why they call you the 9/11 surfer. there are people in this documentary, as the viewers will see tonight, m.i.t. physicists who explain perhaps what might have happened, a hurricane force wind that almost lifted you up and allowed you to float down. do you remember at all what it felt like? do you have any idea how you might have survived that fall? >> i remember everything. i remember the fall. i mean, every moment of that fall, i remember. so i experienced it and i think it's how i've been describing it, i guess the experts were able to come up with that theory. i always wondered myself, you know. so i guess, i guess it makes sense. >> we'll obviously see the full story through your voice on discovery. but him coming home after all of this, how do you describe that

moment, seeing him again? >> well, when they first got the phone call from him, our house was filled with people by 3: 30 that afternoon and i never spoke to him again. when he called and i answered the phone and he said, louise, it's me. i was like, pasquale! pasquale! oh, my god, it's pasquale! the whole house was an uproar and screaming and, you know, i knew that if i heard his voice that even if he was missing an arm or a leg, that he was alive. and when he finally did come home that night, it was a long day and just being there waiting in the driveway, you know, people were still over at the house and i couldn't wait to touch him and feel him and, you know, make sure it was really you and that you were really home. i mean, it was -- it was a nightmare that turned into, for

us, anyway, you know, it ended him coming home, what we dealt with after that is another story. >> hard. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> pasquale, you tell your story now. why did you wait so long? >> i feel like i can tell the story now. i did tell the story then on, you know, small local type things. everybody said, you have to tell you story, you have to tell your story, it's amazing. it was difficult telling the story then. the emotions, and they still are but they were much more -- very raw then. and now i'm able to deal with it. i'm able to, you know, be happy again and, you know, feel the joy of life again. so i'm able to tell it. >> and your beautiful daughter, hope and miare, both here with you today. we're glad you're here. thanks for telling your story. >> thank you.

thanks for having us. >> the dock manhattumentary app tonight at 9:00, "the 9/11 surfer." ♪ [ acoustic guitar: upbeat ] [ dog ] we found it together. on a walk, walk, walk. love to walk. yeah, we found that wonderful thing. and you smiled. and threw it. and i decided i would never, ever leave it anywhere. because that wonderful, bouncy, roll-around thing... had made you play. and that... had made you smile. [ announcer ] beneful. play. it's good for you.

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welcome back to "morning joe." >> we are going to the politico desk right now. it's an amazing story. >> incredible. >> you know i love, we were just talking to you, the reason it's taken him 11 years to talk about it is he didn't -- you don't want to go out and out of respect for all of his friends that died, he just didn't feel right about going out. it's taken him 11 years. >> his friends and colleagues at the port authority of new york and new jersey, they all died. he felt like going out over the last ten years and talking about his great incredible, exciting story of survival was total disrespect to them. it was survivor's guilt. >> gripping story. >> we need to hear it. but i certainly understand why it took him so long. >> he's a great man of great character. he is. let's go to jim. he's got a look at the politico playbook. >> not a great man and his character is sort of middling. >> it's hard to talk about politics after that segment.

>> you write baseless stories. it would be like, give me some information and i'll write a good story about you even if you trash scarborough. i don't remember that stuff though but it rolls off my back. >> it's hard to find people who trash scarborough. >> i like a t. way he says that. >> do you have any questions for jim? >> not really. >> okay. >> so, jim, we've been talking. so funny last night, what the kids call the twitter, if you go on the twitter you will see like some of these partisan screechings saying, oh, the gallga gallop poll is wrong because of this, the bounce for obama, the other poll is wrong because of whatever. even if all of those polls that came out and showed an obama bounce is wrong, talk about the internal angst inside the romney campaign, sitting in the swing states a big bounce and are

getting concerned. >> yeah. i think that's always the best barometer. i do think the polls go up and down. when you see this many poll saying exactly the same thing you can assume they're probably pretty darn accurate. what strikes me are the folks around romney and how concerned they are. they thought they would be better positioned at this point than the campaign -- than they actually are. they thought they would be doing better in the swing states. they thought they would get a little bit of the lift out of the conventions. and those two things haven't happened. i think the big reason there's angst is it's the polls in the swing states, particularly ohio, that trouble them. they've not been able to move those numbers. and at the end of the day there's only nine, ten states that matter. if you can't perform well in those states you can't win the presidency. and the other area to watch for is seeing a lot of this overnight is not just angst in the campaign but on the outside, whether it's rupert murdoch, the "wall street journal," "the weekly standard," all making the exact same critique of romney. they're saying, what happened? you took ryan as your running

mate, you promised a war of specificity and yet we continue to get the same old campaign. >> jim, i actually was talking about this on sunday night, the huffington post picked it up. the next day the "wall street journal" editorial board had this to say. mr. romney's pre-existing political calculations seems to be he can win the election without having to explain the economic moment or even his own policies. is shows vagueness, carries its own political risk. laura ingram, i think, yesterday on her show echoed what i said, not because i said it but because we're all sitting here thinking the same thing. you've got unemployment over 8%. you've got a right track, wrong track that is historically upside-down. you've got a president that can't connect with middle america and as lauraingraham said, if you can't beat barack obama with this record, then shut down the party, shut it down, start new with new people. that's how i feel.

that's how the "wall street journal's" feeling. laura ingraham is talking about it. and yesterday, what's he talking about? i will not let them take god off the coin. really? i didn't know anybody was going to do that. >> yeah, i think that they've made a calculation that they think specificity is dangerous in politics. they think they win because they can make the argument that obama is bad. i think what everyone is seeing now from the polls and the trajectory of the campaign is that's not enough and that's why there's tremendous pressure on this campaign to be specific. in essence, to be paul ryan. that's what these conservatives want at the end of the day. they want the ticket flipped. they want a war of ideas and wars of ideas, they're difficult and they are very high risk. medicare is a high risk debate but they want it. >> conservatives want a war of ideas, mika. we don't win this type of war that romney is fighting. >> politico, thank you. >> thank you. >> make up a a story about me, jim.

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together we'll go far. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe" on this 11th anniversary of the attacks on our country. you're looking at live pictures of the ground zero memorial where nearly 3,000 americans lost their lives 11 years ago today. in just a moment president obama and the first lady, michelle obama, will observe a moment of silence on the south lawn of the white house. just to give you a sense of the remembrance going on today, at 9:30 the president will head over to the pentagon for a wreath laying service where he will make remarks along with leon panetta and martin dempsey. vice president joe biden will be

in pennsylvania to honor the passengers who took action against the hijackers on flight 93. there will be a reading of the names of the passengers and crew and the vice president will deliver brief remarks. >> and barack obama and michelle obama coming out right now, mika. obviously this president has faced the challenges of -- >> exactly 46 past the hour. the moment of silence.

♪

♪ >> john meacham, this president now carries the tremendous burden that the last administration carried, to hold true to the words that so many americans spoke 11 years ago,

never again. and what a burden that is for him. >> never forget. you talk to presidents. you hear president obama talk about the most solemn responsibility is sending other people's children into battle. he's doing it in this case in protecting the country because at this hour, 11 years ago, civilians who were innocent became combatants in a war they did not know was unfolding and it was the murder of innocence and the slaughter of innocence and that's what we commemorate now. >> the remembrances will continue throughout the morning. another moment of silence at 9:03 a.m., the moment the second tower was hit. we'll be right back with more live coverage. losing weight clicked for me when i found a plan that was as active and on the go as i was. weight watchers online is absolutely that tool. it was never further away than my pocket. my sidekick!

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>> we have a breaking news story to tell you about. apparently a plane has just crashed into the world trade center here in new york city. it happened just a few moments ago apparently. we have very little information available at this point in time. but on the phone we do have jennifer overstein who apparently witnessed this event. jennifer, can you hear me? >> hello. >> hi, jennifer. >> hi, katie. >> hi, can you please tell me what you saw and give me any information about what's going on there. >> yes. i have to tell you, it's quite terrifying. i'm in shock right now. i came out of the subway at bowling green. i was heading to work in battery park at the ritz carlton hotel. i come out and i saw a big -- i heard a boom, looked up and there was a big ball of fire. i'm now looking north at the world trade center. and it is the last twin tower, if i'm looking north. i'm in battery park right now. you can hear the fire engines and emergency crews behind me. and it is unbelievable.

when the fire first bursts -- hello. >> go ahead. we can hear you. >> in the air like i have never seen before. and as you know, i used to work in news. i've never seen any fire like this in the air. pieces of the building were flying down. it looks like -- it's like the top -- i can't even tell, maybe 20 floors. intense smoke. it's horrible. i can't even describe it to you. >> do you have any idea what kind of plane it was? >> i'm sorry? >> do you have any idea what hit the world trade center? >> what it was? >> yeah, what kind of plane. we're getting reports that an airplane hit the building. >> i didn't even know that. honestly, i was walking up and it looked up and saw a big boom and fire. you know, i got to tell you, we were all saying around here that it was very interesting that it would be a bomb and it would be so high up. so perhaps it was -- perhaps it was a plane. we have no -- i have to tell you there is still -- there is still things flying in the air.

i mean, it -- it's mind boggling. it's horrifying. >> jennifer, it's matt lauer. i would like to ask you, while you were close to the building or have you, since the explosion, seen anyone who has been injured being taken out of the building? are there ambulances dealing with people on the sidewalk around the building? >> no. i have not. i have not gotten that close. i have to tell you that my father works in the world financial center and i first called over there to see because it's next door, to see, you know, if he was okay. i couldn't get through. and i'm far away right now. i thought it might be a little dangerous to get too close. i saw lots of debris coming down. and right now anymore battery bark. i don't know. it's probably a five-minute walk from here to the world trade center. but the smoke is incredible. i can't see the top of the tower. it's starting to cover the top of the second tower. >> we're looking at pictures right now, jennifer, with a huge gaping hole on the side of the building and billowing smoke.

>> i'm right now -- i see major fire. i definitely see fire. >> jennifer, you said you're looking north of the building. in other words, you're south of the building, is that right? >> correct. >> because we're looking at a picture that is looking at the north side of the building. >> i'm on the exact opposite side. >> it appears that is where the largest hole is. as you mentioned correctly, toward the top of the building. and then on what i think is the west side of the building we can also see some holes there that could have been from damage once the impact occurred. again, we've been told that this is a plane. we don't have confirmation on that, but there is an enormous hole in the north side of that building. >> jennifer, can you tell us a little bit more about what you heard when you heard this explosion? describe it for us? >> absolutely. when i walked out of the subway, i looked at the twin towers because, i mean, i just always look up there. and right when i looked up, there was a boom. it wasn't -- it wasn't that loud. like it wasn't huge.

however, what was unbelievable was the amount of fire. it was a big ball of fire that just went up. and i looked around at people. we were all horrified. i'm stuttering because i'm in such shock. i've never seen anything like it. it's horrible. >> and, of course, this is real cause for concern because the world trade center is one of the busiest office buildings here in new york with hundreds, perhaps thousands of workers. >> new york state governor has his new york city office there. >> several thousand workers. >> of course, given the time this has happened, it's only probably appropriate to surmise that people might have been in the building. >> and you know, we've seen stories in the past where planes have hit buildings, small planes. and it would be hard to imagine that a small plane could create that kind of hole in a building like the world trade center and create the damage on the other side of the building from the sheer impact. small planes tend to crumple and then fall down. again, we haven't talked to

anyone close to the base of the building so we don't know what kind of debris or wreckage. >> i'm sorry. i'm just talking to a police officer right here and he said, yes, he heard it was a plane. >> does he have any information about what kind of plane it was or can he tell us any more details? >> i'm going to put you on hold for one moment. okay? >> just to recap if you're just joining us, you're looking at dramatic pictures of new york's world trade center in lower manhattan where a short time ago we are told a plane crashed into the upper floors of the western most tower. you can see a gaping hole. that is on the north side of the building and you can see residual damage on the west side of that building. obviously fires are burning right now in the world trade center. >> that building has had a real problem in the new york. back in the '40s the plane hit the i'm spi empire state building. so -- >> right now we're