the fraternity of sky divers is a special one and now felix baumgartner is the king of sky divers. all hail the king. that does it for "the cycle." now it's time for the king of 4:00. >> toure, thank you so much. i'm very impressed that you're a skydiver. good afternoon to all of you. it's monday, october the 15th, and all of mitt's horses and all of mitt's men, can't put the facts back together again. team romney struggles with the facts. >> leaders lead by putting specifics on the table. >> unemployment is going down just as a factual matter. why would congressman ryan in defiance of facts suggest otherwise? >> why is it all right to tell voters about the candy, everybody is going to get a 20% tax cut, but not tell them about the spinach, how do you pay for it and you refuse to say how you're going to pay for it. >> i wouldn't want to take the

risk. no republican has. >> he was talking about abortion. he wasn't talking about the economy. >> so they put all their cards in a new conspiracy theory. >> this is the first time in 33 years that a united states ambassador has been assassinated. >> there's no doubt he's working hard to exploit this issue. gee didn't say it was a campaign issue. he said it was an issue. >> that's funny. >> not familiar with precisely with exactly what i said but i stand by what i said whatever it was. ♪ carry on my wayward son ♪ they'll be peace when you are done ♪ ♪ lay your weary head to rest >> we begin with just three short weeks to go and tomorrow night's high stakes second presidential debate that could mark a major turning point in this campaign. and at this hour both candidates are hunkered down locked in intensive debate preparation. mitt romney is up in burlington,

massachusetts. the president, he's in williamsburg, virginia, where he's been honing his skills since saturday. his only break, a half hour visit on sunday to a local campaign office where he delivered food and made phone calls to volunteers. the president knows that he must halt romney's recent momentum with this race now looking tighter than the locks on his opponent's car elevator. new national polls show a close contest. in a new "washington post"/abc news poll the president leads romney 49% to 46%. but that edge shrinking to just one point, 49% to 48%, in a politico/george washington university battleground poll. the two surveys show different results out of the battleground states. the post poll has the president up by five points, 51% to 46%. in the gw poll, he trails by two, 50% to 48%. but perhaps the news that's

bringing real moisture to mitt romney's tear ducts, voters are finally seeing him as a little likable. in the gw survey, romney's fa r favorability is now above water. 50% view him favorably. 44% unfavorably. >> can't deny the fact that you like me right now, you like me! >> sorry, a bit of sally field there perhaps channeling a bit of mitt romney. but, wait, it's not quite time for romney's acceptance speech because there's one key factor that is still giving him heartburn, his policies. and in the post 57% say romney's policies would favor the wealthy. just a third say they'd favor the middle class. versus 68% saying the same for the president. so will the hofstra town hall be a chance for the president to bring the fight? to prove his case with the middle class? or will mitt romney have his way with yet another slick sales

pitch? let's get right to our panel. in washington msnbc political analyst, karen finney. ab na marie cox, and julian epstein. good afternoon to all of you. karen, we're hearing from our own kristin welker is the president is likely to bring up romney's taped comments about the 47% being a bunch of feckless freeloaders, but isn't the problem here that mitt romney will simply claim that he never said such a thing whether it's on tape or not? just as he has on his tax plan that is estimated to leave a $5 trillion hole in revenues. just as he does with everything else. it just didn't happen. >> well, sure, she's going to try to do that. but i think if president obama is well-prepared to deliver the goods, he will remind the audience that's watching that some of the people in that very audience may be part of that 47% or let's talk about the impact, some of the ideas romney has talked about would have on that

47%. so i think there's a way that regardless of whether romney stands there and says uh-uh, wasn't me, the president can push back and say, wait a second, let's take a look at when you talk about, you know, medicare and when you talk about budget cuts -- >> but i didn't mean that, but i didn't mean that, but i didn't mean that, but i didn't mean it. julian, won't this town hall resemble a circus act with the audience saying things like he's behind you when the president looks around, romney has disappeared. >> no, i think the difference with this town hall is that this is going to be real people with real problems looking for real answers, and i think karen is right. on the one hand the president wants to go after in a presidential way the credibility of mitt romney by talking about the 47% and all the games mitt romney has played with his taxes and investments, but also and i think to karen's point, it's the unpopularity of republican policies. what democrats need to do is settle down and remember that they've got much more popular policies than do the republicans. on the economy, the republicans

do not have an economic plan other than an incoherent tax plan which more resembles a bernie madoff ponzi scheme. >> what's wrong with self-deportation for immigrants, pointing judges to overturn roe v. wade, defunding planned parenthood -- >> you took the words out of my mouth. on the economy, there's no plan other than this incoherent tax plan which is more like a bernie madoff ponzi scheme. on social issues, the social issues you just mentioned, they are more fitting for the president of the john birch society than they are president of the united states. on health care, you're talking about a plan that is extremely offensive to seniors when you talk -- when seniors understand what they want to do on medicare hand that would lead tens of millions of people out in the cold who have experienced things like pre-existing conditions. the democrats have to understand, the issues are on their side here and the credibility of mitt romney once they're reminded of the statements like the 47% is very

much on their side. if the president focuses and delivers democrats are going to be okay in this election. >> anna marie, to julian's point, the obama campaign has a new ad reminding voters of the mitt romney back in the primaries. take a look. >> i would like to see, for instance, roe v. wade overturned. i will cut off 23u7ding to planned parndhood. if i were elected and congress passed the dream act, would i veto it? the answer is yes. >> the withdrawal of all of our troops in iraq is unfortunate. we're going to cut taxes on everyone across the country by 20%, including the top 1%. >> anna marie, given the fact that people don't tend to concentrate until we get a lot closer to the election, is there a possibility that when mitt romney runs a mile from the kind of things that he said, well, the voters might actually go with him? >> i do think there is that chance. it's got to be very frustrating for the obama camp at this point because i think just look at

what he's been doing, guys. if you can show what he was doing during the primaries, that's not the candidate that most of america wants to have. that's the candidate that the republican party wanted to nominate. that's the guy that the republican party would like to be president, but he's not the guy that most americans would like to be president. and i sort of get that all obama has to do is point that out. but it's harder to do than you'd think because mitt just denies that that was the case. i think the 47% line is a golden one for them. it's something that he said. it's something that wasn't a misstatement, it wasn't a slip of the tongue. it was an extended monologue where he went on to say these amazingly offensive things. so i think that if you can just sort of put in voters' minds that there really is like a guy there that you really don't want to be president. he's not the man standing in front of you but he's a guy that used to exist. >> right. >> i was going to say the other way to go at this, too, president obama has a record that he should be proud of that he can point to and then let's look at what the romney record

is because at some point, you know, you've got two guys saying, you know, pick me, pick me, well, let's look at what they've done. >> karen, there is no romney record. i keep telling you -- >> oh, yes, there is. yes, there is. when he was the head of bain, what happened? people lost everything. while he made money. when he was governor of massachusetts, how did he govern? he did some outsourcing of call centers to india, i believe. he believed that, you know, his numbers got better in terms of unemployment because people left the state. so again, i think there are -- whether he likes it or not, there are a few bread crumbs to talk about. >> julian, the president might take some pointers from chris wallace who didn't let ed gillespie get away with his claims that independent studies prove romney's mythical and magical tax plan. take a list be to this. >> one is a blog from a guy who was a top adviser from george w. bush. >> and other studies are very

credible sources. >> i wouldn't say aei is a credible think tank. >> it's a right leaning think tank, doesn't make it incredible. >> what is this man talking about? this is the kind of guy who would produce six studies and claim that his body fat percentage was 6%. but he wrote all the studies. >> there's all kinds of problems with the aei study in terms of what it presumes how the economy will grow. i think you're right. i think that the president does have to take down the mythology and take off the halloween costume that has been romney in the last two weeks on the tax plan and everything else. i think the president also has to make the case that this economy has turned around. you look at the auto industry, the financial industry, you look at nearly every single economic indicator, the news came out on friday about consumer confidence which shows it's way up. we have talked about how gdp has been turned around by a net positive of about 11 points and jobs a net positive of about a million jobs a month. the president has to make the case as to how he's turned a

very bad situation around. i think the president also has to say what he will do in the next four years. i think you will hear a lot of that. you even have republican economists out there saying that the jobs bill he's got on capitol hill will create 2 million jobs. so the point is this, martin. there is so much material to work with that's on the table. it's just a question of prosecuting affect tieffectivel. i can assure the president will show up with his "a" game and mitt's game of playing with the facts it was good in the first debate but like a sucker punch, you get a free shot one time, you don't get it a second time. >> do you think the president will use the ammunition that is at his disposal? >> i think that he can. i think that he wants to. it's going to be an interesting format for doing that. it will depend a little bit about what kind of material he's offered by the people in the town hall. but i think we are going to see sort of a different side of the president than we saw the last time. it's a very low bar as people have said for him to do bet irbut let's say interacting with normal human beings is not mitt

romney's strong point. so i think obama has the advantage here. >> anna marie cox, karen finney, julian epstein, brilliant always. thank you so all of you. a note to you, the viewer, we will be taking the show on the road tomorrow for the second presidential debate. be sure to tune in as we broadcast live from hofstra university at 4:00 p.m. right here on msnbc. next, the romney campaign's new slogan, i see my opportunity and i took it. stay with us. >> does the fact that the ambassador's father doesn't want this to be a campaign issue cause you any concern about governor romney bringing it up on the stump? >> well, he didn't say it was a campaign issue. he said it was an issue. ♪ [ female announcer ] gross? i'll tell you what's really gross. used dishcloths.

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as we approach tomorrow night's debate, conservatives have chosen to shamelessly exploit a vicious and sustained attack that led to the deaths of four americans in libya, including one highly esteemed ambassador. and the word they're using to prosecute their case is one that they know only too well "cover-up." >> has there been a cover-up by the white house? >> without a doubt there has been. >> so what they're trying to do is cover up this scandal as much as possible. >> it looks like to me like it's going to get messier and messier, and, in fact, it looks like, you know, the administration has involved in a cover-up. >> joining us now from his home district in baltimore is democratic congressman elijah cummings, the ranking member of the house committee investigating the events in benghazi. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> this exploitation of events in benghazi has been condemned

by those who matter most, the parents who have pleaded for this not to be used for political purposes. yet what do we find but it's the first thing out of paul ryan's mouth during the vice presidential debate last week. congressman, your reaction to that? >> well, the fact is, first of all, these public servants, this is just a horrible tragedy, and we have to bring their killers to justice, but paul ryan and the republicans are making this out to be -- treating it like a political football, and that's so very, very unfortunate, and i understand the father of the ambassador saying, look, i'm in the process of grieving. he said the state department is providing me with the kinds of answers that i want. let the investigation go forward, but don't make it a

political football. even john mccain's former national security adviser wrote a wonderful article last thursday where he says, the republicans are about the business of creating a gotcha contest, and he said we need to get away from that because it does nobody any good. >> now, mr. ryan was prepped for his debate by senior foreign policy adviser dan senor who worked for president bush from the invasion of iraq in 2003. does it not sound a little rich to you that this man attacks the current administration for communication failures when he's the same individual who sold the country bogus claims about weapons of mass destruction and was known to lie about conditions in iraq in order to support the re-election of george bush? >> it is astounding that one would have the nerve to even utter the words conspiracy and,

you know, the types of things that these republicans are trying to do, but this is what they do, martin. we saw another contradiction here where we had mr. isa talking about and criticizing the president and saying we needed to have more security, and he himself voted in 2009 to get rid of 300 embassy security positions, and over the last two budgets the republican congress has cut some $500 billion from the request of the president for embassy security and for facilities. and so, you know, i've called on chairman isa to the join me, and i also have called on now mr. romney and mr. ryan to join me in pushing for a supplemental appropriation for our embassies, but, by the way, you know, the ryan and romney budget, martin,

would cut -- would drastically cut embassy security money not only the next year and the year after that but for the next ten years. i'm talking about billions of dollars. >> right. and so add further fuel to this fire of hypocrisy, we now have dick cheney complain about a cover-up at the white house. i mean, as i said to one of my colleagues earlier today, excuse me while i throw up. >> yeah. we've got -- we have so much to do, and i don't think -- and the claim they are about the business of doing an investigation, martin, it is ridiculous what they have done. so far we have -- our committee has had no secure type briefing, classified briefing. we have not interviewed one single person who was in the country of libya on the day of this event, but yet and still mr. isa and others have come to these conclusions about which they are trying to make this a

political football, but i will not let that happen. back in 1998, martin, i stood in an airplane hangar with president clinton as 12 bodies came back from nairobi. there were three members of our diplomatic corps, two members of the cia, and one marine who had been killed, and i'm telling you, i will not and i'm sure that our democratic colleagues and i would hope our republican colleagues would join us, we will not stand by and not try to decrease the risk for these wonderful m.a.s.hamericans who their lives on the line every day for us to bring peace into the world. >> indeed. congressman, a final question to you. does this not remind you of their pursue of the attorney general and the witch hunt they launched against him? >> no doubt about it. again, our committee has been one where they create the headlines and the neck thing you know the republicans then they're out trying to search for the facts. martin, the interesting thing, most of the time the facts

simply are not there. you cannot manufacture facts. >> some people apparently can. congressman elijah cummings, thank you so much, sir. >> thank you, martin. next, the other folks angry with mitt romney's quick draw. stay with us. >> hey, the brussels grip on the -- these are gelato flavors that are dogs actually. >> no, no, they're names of dogs. remember when you said men are superior drivers? yeah. yeah. then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...allstate safe driving bonus check? what is that? so weird, right? my agent, tom, said... [ voice of dennis ] ...only allstate sends you a bonus check for every six months you're accident-free... ...but i'm a woman. maybe it's a misprint. does it look like a misprint?

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"friday night lights," but does "friday night lights" that have much love for mitt romney? the answer arrived in a form of a letter from the show's creator. to quote mr. berg, i was not thrilled when i saw you have plagiarized this expression clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose. a double tackle there from mr. berg. he continued with a third hit on romney. please come up with your own campaign slogan. that's a bit of unnecessary roughness, isn't it? however, unlike most writers, mr. berg apparently doesn't take it as a compliment when any old tom, dick, or willard quotes his work. that puts the republican nominee in a difficult spot. if he can't borrow a rousing line from a fictionalized drama about texas high school football, then where can he turn for inspirational rhetoric? fortunately, movies and tv have furnished mr. romney with plenty of other options. greed is good from oliver stone'sing with quaul street" quickly comes to mind.

then how far would you go to become someone else from "the talented mr. ripley." but for summing up mr. romney's propensity to change like the wind, we decided to go for a line from "my big fat greek wedding," don't let your past dictate who you are, even if that past was yesterday. stay with us, the day's "top lines" are coming up. ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios

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but today...( sfx: loud noise of large metal object hitting the ground) things have been a little strange. (sfx: sound of piano smashing) roadrunner: meep meep. meep meep? (sfx: loud thud sound) what a strange place. geico®. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. from the meaning of malarkey to what's the matter with mitt, here are today's "top lines." come out swinging. >> hello, everybody, hello, hello. >> nobody is a harsher critic than the president is of himself. i think he's going to make some adjustments. >> if you enjoyed thursday night's vice presidential debate, you're certainly not alone. >> there was one person on the stage with thoughtfulness who was respectful. >> oh, boy, here we go. >> president obama made a

promise. >> do you play a lot of football? >> this is my favorite sport. >> malarkey. >> it's irish. >> i know you're under a lot of duress to make up for last ground. >> you don't scare me shark eyes. >> unemployment is going down. why would congressman ryan in defiance of facts suggest otherwise? >> our economic plan is simple, we're going to close loopholes. >> could you please be more specific? >> no, but let me say it again with hand gestures. >> tell voters about the candy but let's not tell them about the spinach which is you're going to lose some deductions. >> six different studies have said -- >> very questionable. >> he seems absolutely insear as a moderate and he seems pretty insear as a severe conservative. that's not a dig. it's honest confusion. >> is there not a disconnect between what governor romney says he wants to do with china

and how he's continuing to profit. >> all his stuff is in a blind trust. you can probably win the presidency without ohio but i want want to take the ric. >> he was a walking shambling mound. >> long luscious coattails and everybody is jumping on board. >> we expect governor romney will have a great debate. she's a great salesman. >> how is the debate praep going? >> it is going great. >> joining us is steve kornacki, my colleague and the co-host of "the cycle" on msnbc and maria teresa kumar, an msnbc contributor and the president of voter latino. steve, a new political poll shows the president getting high marks for personal likability, as you can see. well ahead of romney. does he risk that likability by going in tomorrow and throwing some punches? >> to a certain extent, but i happen to think that's a little bit of an overrated concern because you saw the opposite.

you saw, i think, the strategy the last time was to preserve the likability. entirely different problem developed, and that is the guy just looked weak. he looked like he didn't have any fight, didn't have any life in him. i think there's a hope on viewers' parts they're going to he see the guy has some blood in his veins. if that means pressing romney harder, if that means raising questions about romney's tax plan that he didn't raise in the first debate very aggressively, i think that's a chance at this point -- >> the 47% for example. >> being too nice just gave romney one of the biggest debate bounces we've ever seen. >> maria teresa, in the first debate we heard very little about issues specifically affecting women. now, do you think those issues will get more attention tomorrow night, particularly with romney appearing to do better in the battleground states with women? >> right. the gallup poll just showed he's closing in on obama in the key states we care about, ohio being one of them, florida, nevada, you go down the list. i think that's what he needs,

president obama needs to talk about women. he needs to talk about the 47%. he needs to talk about immigration. he needs to remind women what's on the ballot come november. it's not just about health care but it's also about reversing roe versus wade. let's keep in mind, there are two supreme court justices that may be retiring that will be decided by the next president. he definitely has to go back and lay it on the table to women what he's done for them, whether it's been again equal pay under the ruth bader law or whether it's -- the led better law or protecting their health care. >> you might have noticed some blue tock ra si in the air in new york. there's a big gathering in the big apple. registration is going on as we speak at the waldorf astoria. mr. romney's top donors will be treated to a reception aboard the irs intrep"uss intrepid" foa

quarter of a million dollars for the campaign. >> kind of makes you want to cobble that money together and bring the recorder in and see if there's any more 47% comments made because this is the kind of eve vent where that comment was made in the first place. this is obviously i think the term for this sort of thing is donor maintenance. these are the guys who have been bank rolling the campaign. they have been bank rolling the republican operation. >> and romney has announced a huge amount of money raised in september, $170 million. >> add on top of it the super pac money, a lot of the super pac money is coming from people just like this. you put an event like this together, this is what they expect. they expect the same thing if mitt romney is president, to have a seat at the table. >> is it fair to assume this money will be used to carpet bomb the president from now on? >> sure. >> that's the point of it. >> and take a broader look with karl rove and the super pac money. >> huge sums of money. >> martin, i think it also shows you the difference when the obama president and a romney

president. with the obama presidency, he's been very aloof with donors. what romney is doing is saying not only will you have a seat at the table but you could start doing sponsorship in the lincoln bedroom if you want to. >> i should mention reince priebus is expected to attend the fall retreat in new york. the rnc chairman was on hand in jason where jason thompson, the son of the candidate in that state, had this to say about the president. take a listen, both of you. >> we have the opportunity to send president obama back to chicago or kenya. >> maria teresa, first, they have the opportunity to send this president back to kenya. really? >> it's disappointing that the surrogates for romney keep doing the race-baiting and the bait and switch. president obama has earned the presidency. he's an american. and for them to continue down

this line of attack is just in poor taste. i think at the end of the day most independent voters, they don't want to be associated with someone that is constantly attacking the president of the united states as a result. >> the campaign of tommy thompson has, in fact, apologized. but now you've got reince priebus sitting there, in effect the titular head of the rnc and an individual saying that kind of thing. >> what really bothers me about that incident, this is a pattern, we saw it earlier when mitt romney tried to make the birth certificate joke -- >> he did make -- >> he made a joke. the words from the speaker are offensive enough. it's the reaction from the crowd. there's applause in that room when you're listening to that. the crowd loved that mitt romney made that joke. it illustrates it's not just poor taste in the speaker's part. notice service of a mindset that has had this resentment of obama, this resentment of resistance to observe. a very sort of personal and sometimes even cultural level since the beginning of his presidency. it makes me very uncomfortable. >> it's pretty disgusting.

>> oh, it is. >> steve kornacki and maria teresa kumar, thank you both. join us tomorrow as we broadcast live from the site of the presidential debate at hofstra university. be here at 4:00. next, why does mitt romney have such a problem with china when he's made so much money from chinese investments over the years? stay with us. >> is there not a disconnect between what governor romney says he wants to do with china and how he is continuing to profit off of those very problems that he criticizes? >> jake, no, i don't think there's any disconnect at all. first you will all of all his stuff is in a blind trust. >> blind trust is an age-old ruse, if you will. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms.

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proverb that says he who strikes first blow has lost the argument. that may help explain mitt romney's latest attack on the president for not rushing to brand china as a currency manipulator. something romney claims is long overdue. >> they came out and said we're not going to do that actually. we're going to wait until after the election. on day one i will label china a currency manipulator. we're going to get serious about making sure people don't cheat when it comes to trade. >> fascinating. now compare that with what romney tells his donors when he thinks nobody is listening. >> when i was back in my private equity days, we went to china to buy a factory there. employed about 20,000 people. as we were walking to this facility, seeing them work, the number of hours they worked per day, the pittance they earned, living in dormitories with little bathrooms. >> translation, our crackdown on china, just not on the factories i buy in china which force their workers to endure sweat shop conditions so my own investments can pay off.

jonathan alter is an msnbc political analyst and a columnist with bloomberg view. robert traynom is a contributor and former adviser to the bush issue cheney campaign of 2004. robert, a company called sensat architect nolgs owned by bain is literally being shipped to china the day before the election at the cost of at least 170 american jobs even while training their chinese replacements. is it just the manipulation of currency that romney is concerned about and not the manipulation of the people? >> well, i think first and foremost, we need to set the record straight and remind everyone that governor romney left bain capital back in 1999 and that is evidenced by his tax returns, by fact check.org so to suggest maybe he had something to do with this -- >> robert, may i just refer to his own tax returns. in fact, he owns $8 million

worth of bain capital, and those funds hold 50%, 51% of sensata shares. so to suggest that mitt romney has absolutely nothing to do with this investment is actually false. $8 million of his bain capital invested funds hold 51% of sensata. please continue. >> i agree with you to a certain degree. however, to suggest that he had some decision making role in having those 170 jobs leave to china is a business dit ingenuous. when you look at general motors, hyundai, ford, there are a lot of american companies out there that have chinese interests. the question becomes, quite frankly, what will you do on day one? i think governor romney has said, rightfully so, if he's elected president, that he will, in fact, say that china is a currency manipulator. you know, there's no daylight in between what he said and what he's doing. >> john? >> anybody who knows anybody in

business knows that declaring china a currency manipulator on day one is about the stupidest international economic policy you can think of that will cost not just a couple hundred jobs, but thousands of jobs in all of these battleground states. >> why? >> because people don't understand how interconnected the chinese and the american economy are in some good ways. take the city of toledo, for instance. it would be interesting for people to listen to the mayor of toledo talk about how many thousands of jobs have been created in toledo through chinese/american joint partnerships, joint investments in the toledo area. so what romney is doing here is just the worst kind of pandering saying he would declare them a manipulator. it's ridiculous. the value of the yuan has actually been declining anyway down about 15%. but what it points to is that he's just trying to get the

votes of people who don't like china for some reason. he's parading as this pro-business executive who understands the business world. he understands it perfectly well that that is not the way you conduct u.s./chinese relations, to attack them on the first day of his presidency. >> but is it pandering? >> total pander. >> or sticking up for what he believes. >> he doesn't believe that for a nano second, and none of his friends believe it. not a single one of his friends in his crowd at bain capital, outside of bain capital believes that it's the right thing to do to declare china a currency manipulator on day one. i have talked to many of them and they scoff at it behind his back and they know that he's just saying this to get elected president but ots not going to work because so many ohio jobs are dependent on chinese investment and people know that in other cases, as in sensata, he has willingly been part of jobs that shipped jobs overvaes. >> i don't disagree with you, there's no question that the chinese economy and the american

economy are like hand in glove when you look at the steel dumping when you look at what china does to its currency, let's call a spade a spade, they do manipulate their currency and when it comes -- they are not a fair trading -- >> they do and when they do things like what they did with tires, president obama was right to blow the whistle on -- >> steel dumping, go down the list. >> that has to go to negotiations. they need to be called on this. i'm not suggesting that china be given a pass on all of its conduct, but declaring them a currency manipulator is a particular legal definition in international agreements and it has very, very bad consequences for international trade. so this is like the kinds of things he says about iran, he's playing fast and loose with international economic policy in order to try to score political points. i don't think it's going to work for him, and i think it's

another sign that he's a hollow man and an empty suit, that he would be doing something that all of his friends and he knows is ridiculous international economic policy. >> robert? >> look, at the end of the day, i mean, china is doing what they're doing, and the question becomes is whether or not someone is going to stand up and call a spade a spade. >> they should stand up -- >> if i could finish. >> tires and steels, but not declaring them a currency manipulator. do you know what this does? do you know what the events that would set in motion if the united states did that? do you know what the impact on that would be on u.s./china trade relations? devastating, extremely harmful for american workers. >> robert, robert -- sorry, jonathan alter and jonathan traynham. thank you for a robust discussion. next, the president preps for a test that could determine where his family comes living come january. first, amanda drury has the cnbc

market wrap. >> good afternoon to you as well. look at how stocks stand. we had a really good day for the start of the trading week after what was a very negative week last week. you had the dow today rising by 95 points, s&p up about 11, nasdaq higher by 20. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. ♪ what are you doing? uh. who taught you how to do this stuff? you! all right! i learned it by watching you! [ male announcer ] parents who skim, have kids who skim. kraft macaroni & cheese. you know you love it.

we are now just over 24 hours away from round two, the second of three presidential debates. we're told that the president has watched a recording of the first debate and was none too impressed by his own performance. nbc's kristin welker is traveling with the president and joins us from williamsburg, virginia. kristin, good afternoon. we're hearing reports that the president will not shy away from mitt romney's con sending remarks about the 47% in tomorrow night's debate.

can we expect to really push him -- him to push romney for an answer on that and not simply to claim, well, i didn't mean what i said and things come out the wrong way? do we expect the president to really drive that thought home? >> reporter: well, good afternoon, martin. campaign aides have said we will see a more aggressive president obama tomorrow night, that he needs to be more aggressive, so i think it's fair to make that link that if president obama does, in fact, bring up the 47% comments which according to sources who are close to the campaign they say it is very likely he will do so, that he will vigorously press romney on that point. but martin, it's a really fine line because, remember, this is a town hall debate, so it's not just going to be president obama facing off against mitt romney. there will be audience members involved who will be asking questions, so president obama needs to appear strong without going over the top. now, president obama hasn't engaged in a town hall debate in about nine months.

compare that to mitt romney who engaged in dozens in the runup to the primary. president obama playing a little bit of catch-up here. his aides, his advisers helping him to do that. they are apparently sitting in as audience members. the audience members that we'll see tomorrow night in hofstra, helping him to get into shape for tomorrow night, impressing him on some of those key points. what's interesting about these debate preps, martin, is that he really seems to be focused solely on preparing for tomorrow night. compare that to when he was in las vegas, he took a number of day trips. that's not happening this time around. he only took one quick trip. otherwise, he's been inside preparing. >> nbc's kristin welker, thank you so much, kristin. we'll be right back to "clear the air." anncr: every president inherits challenges.

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the consulate in benghazi has been condemned by those whose opinions should matter the most. the parents of those who were killed. the mother of one who died has rebuked mitt romney for using his death in his political xaning. now the father of christopher stevens has made his feelings clear. it really would be abhorrent to make this into a campaign issue. it has to be objectively examined. that's where it belongs. it does not belong in the campaign arena. but these strong pleas to cease and desist have not registered with the romney/ryan ticket. their basic condemnation concerns the way these tragic events were communicated by the administration. >> they sent the u.n. ambassador out to say that this was because of a protest and a youtube video. it took the president two weeks to acknowledge this was a terrorist attack. >> the man who fashioned this attack for congressman ryan last week was his senior foreign policy adviser dan senor.

he knows a thick or two about using events overseas for the purpose of an election campaign. in 2004 as a senior adviser to george bush, mr. senor was charged with talking up conditions inside iraq in order to help his boss win re-election. unfortunately for him, a violent insurgency had taken hold. iraq's infrastructure was in ruins, billions of dollars in aid were vanishing, power plants were being bombed, and death squads were running the streets. but just months before the presidential election, here is what mr. senor said. i can tell you that the majority of this country, the majority of the population, is returning to normalcy and wants a stable, democratic iraq to take hold. since then more than 90,000 iraqi civilians have been killed and almost 5,000 americans have now given their lives in that conflict, and mr. senor advises