halperin, i just like saying the word darling. scott helmand of the boston glowing and mother jones washington bureau chief david corn. in a move that will surprise exactly no one, nbc news has learned that tonight's president obama will do what everyone expected him to do two weeks ago, bring up mitt romney's 47% comments. that secret video has been romney's biggest gaffe and he spent the week since trying to show he cares about all americans including the poor and working past. this past saturday congressman paul ryan attempted to further that message making a stop at a soup kitchen in ohio, offering to help clean dishes. while ryan logged in a total of 15 minutes at the kitchen he did manage to wash some pans and made sure to note his own had history on kp. >> you know i've [ inaudible ] washing dishes. you get callouss on your fingers it's so hot. >> the photo opt looked like campaign gold to everyone but the people who actually work at

the soup kitchen. the president of the charity brine antall told "the washington post" yesterday, quote, they showed up there and they did not have permission. they got one of the volunteers to open up the doors. perhaps more importantly, the dining hall was empty and reportedly everything had been cleaned earlier that day. said antall the photo op they did not was no the accurate. he did nothing, came in to get his picture taken at the dining hall. i would not have let him wash clean pans and take a picture. today the ryan campaign spopded saying, it was a great opportunity to highlight the importance of voluntarism and local clarihair charities. no word on ryan's dish pan hands but role playing is nothing new to mitt romney. in his 2002 campaign he held several work days. an ad shows his selling sausages a at a hot dog stand working construction with a road crew and collecting trash as a garbage man. with the president virtually guaranteed to bring up the 47%

issue the question eeremains ca mitt romney convince voters he does care about the working class even when the cameras aren't rolling. mark, as i throw pen caps towards you, let's talk about the expectations game and start mitt romney. a lot of expectations. we'll get to those. as far as making the case to an audience of live humans the town hall format, does he need to show up in a hot dog suit tonight? what does he need to do to convince the audience he does care about the 100%? >> i think it's really pure style. we talk about how -- lament that these events are more about style than substance. the mitt romney that showed up at the first debate, shown up more often than not at the rallies since the debate is more accessible, more human, and i think harder to disqualify as someone who's out of touch or odd than he was for most of the

debates. >> you think he needs to maintain from where he was and not necessarily build on the debate performance? >> this format, given expectations about who will do better, himself, the good man. >> the good romney. >> that's probably enough for his campaign given where they are right now. these town meetings more than the other debates are about moments. the first presidential and the vice presidential, didn't really have any individual moments that people have seized on. town meetings historically have produced moments and i think if governor romney rises to the occasion, i think in some ways it will be easier for him in the sense that the president still hasn't solved the problem of how he defiance romney in this and how he explains his future agenda in this. governor romney simply needs to keep up what he's been doing most of the time since the debate. >> david corn, the 47% moment

was, i dare say a game changing moment, mark and john -- actually get to confer the title. >> it's in the running. >> but i guess in terms of what the president needs to do tonight there's been a lot of talk about him needing to be more aggressive and more on the offensive and, of course, say the words 47%, but eugene robinson brings up an interesting point he says obama has to do more than explain why romney's vision is a mirage. the president has to tell us what he sees on the horizon and why that is the direction we must go. >> i think that's right. i think the president has a lot of different things to do tonight, more so than mitt romney. and the format, though, may not help. because the first obligation he has is to answer the question and concerns expressed by the average people who will be asking the questions, not journalists. and so he has to make sure that like a laser, he focuses on their concerns, and doesn't stray from that. at the same time, i think he has to find a way to take on mitt romney, because mitt romney is

running a campaign now where he basically says anything. you a $5 trillion tax plan, no, i don't. i'm for preexisting conditions, getting rid of them when you're not. so it's really easy to campaign if you're not tethered to facts or reality. and so if the questioners or the moderator is not allowed to pin mitt romney down, he has to find a way to get in there and respond to the questions from the people. and at the same time, i also have a lot of vigor and do what gene suggested, yes, he's made these accomplishments so far but this is where things will head should you re-elect him. >> that's a lot -- that alone. >> done improv as you have. that's like -- >> a word and a location and a beginning phrase, yes. it's a lot. it's a lot for him to handle. scott, chronicler of all things romney. there are two things at play here. one is the moderate mitt and the

pivot to the center and the other mitt, part and parcel of that persona, the mitt that cares about all americans, right. i wonder what's more important for him to establish in your mind and more effectively establish? >> they set before the last debate knowing this would be their biggest audience they recast him in a big way where it threw obama off. we've seen the polls in the last couple weeks suggest this, the accessible mitt, the mitt romney that can win this election. the question for me tonight is, how does mitt romney respond if he's attacked by obama? because we have seen him, he's good when he's on offense and he can get rattled easily if obama gets under his skin. tonight their biggest concern has to be that he handles any aggressiveness from obama. >> that must have been the strategy for paul ryan knowing he was going in with big dog,

the tenacious attack dog joe biden. i mean, his whole thing was do not break face, do not engage with the enemy. >> exactly. i think if it were up to the candidates mitt romney would don the fred rogers cardigan sweater to show empathy and barack obama would dawn a number 47 football jersey because it's such great shorthand to remind people the case he needs to make. i think the debate could shape up almost as a tug of war between the two candidates on who gets to define romney's image. it's crucial for obama to remind people of kind of the bad romney, the romney in david's 47% tape and by the same token as mark said, i think romney's goal is to kind of continue to project the alternative romney we saw whenning the first debate. >> -- winning the first debate. >> the state of the race, you put out a map today that shows that it's something that has caused consternation if not outright fear in some democratic circles, romney getting to 266

with florida, north carolina, virginia and ohio. we have seen -- it is undeniable this race has tightened. nate silver look at his charts in terms of the president's margin to win the race, it -- has narrowed. look at that. you can't say this isn't a race. tell us about the electoral map. >> that map i put together is not a projection of who's going to win the states. it's simply expressing the hopes that some republicans of concern and some democrats, there are nine battlegrounds. if the three southern go to romney, that's at this point certainly north carolina and florida more likely than not, find ways to win virginia and finds a way to win ohio where he's been spending a lot of time, congressman ryan spending time, outside groups are pouring in money, what's been the actual truth of this race from the beginning flips. it goes from being president obama's biggest advantage is the electoral college to governor romney having the advantage in the electoral college. 266 with five remaining battlegrounds to get the last four votes from puts him in a

commanding position. doesn't mean he's going to win ohio. i'm confident he's still behind there. but there are reasons to think had he has a chance to come back to win there and the best path that he has. i was surprised yesterday to hear some democrats talking about romney's strength in ohio. one way to think about it, if there were a governor's race in ohio, gubl torl candidates, mitt romney or barack obama, who would have a better chance. recent history in that state would say it would be a close contest. >> david, we talk about the things that mitt romney is doing to strengthen his candidacy or his bid to become the president of this country. is there stuff that president obama is not doing or handling poorly? specifically i want to talk about the libya question. because i think we go back and forth about how much this is actually going to play into voters' minds when they go into the booth and let's first play some sound from secretary of state clinton yesterday where she says she takes responsibility for the attacks that killed chris stevens and several others.

>> i take responsibility. i'm in charge of the state department, 60,000 plus people all over the world, 275 posts. the president and the vice president certainly wouldn't be knowledgeable about specific decisions that are made by security professionals. >> so david, how does that play for the white house? >> i think if you look at the facts of the matter, the white house shouldn't be in bad position. i don't know if it was the front page of the "new york times" david kir patrick has a great story, interviewed people who were on the scene, who came away, after having -- libyans who talked to the libyans with who said they were mad about the video and these are the initial intelligence assessments. i've talked to the white house and said everything they said came from initial intelligence assessments. i think hillary clinton is right. these decisions are not made at the white house. if there's a problem there's a problem with the diplomatic security i could vision at the state. yet, having said all that, i think the white house has failed to bring these facts to bear and

beat back effectively what i think is a crass effort of politicizization on romney's part. i was on a sunday show this past sunday, funny, and they had on lindsey graham and darrell issa bashing away at the administration on this and saying things i didn't think were true and the administration did not make anybody available to get to these points that i think are pretty well established now. so they kind of lost the politics of this. even though i think the facts are not that bad for them. >> initially they thought they had won this. romney came out and gave what by all accounts was a very bad performance condemning the president right away, and i happened to sit in a focus group of undecided voters a couple days later and every one of them to a person was really kind of incensed and offended at romney's behavior. initially the white house didn't see this as something they necessarily was a negative and was, in fact, a kind of a positive from a crass, raw politics standpoint.

>> but it's -- i think part of the problem is the information has come out in dribs and drabs. secretary of state -- we have u.s. -- we have our u.n. ambassador susan rice saying one thing, then the jay carney piece, then the sort of back and forth between the biden and the intelligence community and now you have the secretary of state coming out before she leaves town to go somewhere else. in terms of managing the message reminds me of the contraception coverage debate where they thought this isn't going to be a big deal, we've got this and this outcry from the catholic church or the religious communities and they sort of didn't get their arms around it until -- it wasn't -- eventually i think they managed to dole with the issue but this is one of those things that the white house has problems with sometimes which is managing the message on things they underestimate. >> i think this is still a little hard to understand? terms of the raw politics of it. i think there's no doubt this is energizing the republican base and, you know, republicans had a decades -- multiple decades long advantage on national security that energized their voters.

president bush as recently as 2004 was able to use that, given his record on national security and at a minimum this is getting republican activists engaged to say the president's weak on foreign policy and i think potentially, there's a larger issue of bad leadership that's going to be a big part of the next debate because that is on foreign policy and of all the issues where they don't disagree very much this is one where governor romney will be asked to explain better than he has what he would be doing differently. >> the mention of the word libya reminds everybody gadhafi is no longer in power and we did have something to do with that. >> thank you to mark halperin. >> go get my tracker keeper and head to the deep. >> we'll trade stickers. >> you're getting up. really getting to go. >> got to go. >> tonight's big hall town style sequel begins at 9:00 eastern with prime time coverage at 5:00 p.m. here on a channel called msnbc. after the break the great debater. we have seen several iterations

of govern romney's debate style including his strong performance against president obama but how will he fair when coming from the audience. next on "now." no, no, no, stop! humans -- one day, we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... stop, stop, stop! my car! not so much. but that's okay. you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility -- what's your policy?

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i don't know about the endorsement of the mass citizens for life. i didn't seek it or -- >> but you accepted it. >> i didn't write them a letter and say thank you very much -- >> your spokesperson said you accepted their endorsement. >> i can tell you again i did not in any way acknowledge their endorsement nor do i -- >> you accepted it.

>> when you say i accept the it. in what way. >> ask your campaign spokesman. >> i'm here and i can tell you i do not take the position of a pro life candidate. i'm in favor of preserving and protecting a woman's right to choose and your effort to continue to try to create fear and deception here is unbecoming. >> that was a testy and zesty mitt romney being challenged on abortion during a 2012 debate from massachusetts governor -- that performance showcasing his combative side changed the trajectory of the race. romneys's deficit and opinion polls to a win on election day. could the narrative play out the same way this year? joining us now from boston is shannon o'brien, as the 2002 democratic nominee for massachusetts governor she is someone who knows just a little bit about mitt and joining us on set in new york is ryan groom, washington bureau chief for the "the huffington post." shannon i would like to go to you first on this. an interesting exchange to

watch. i want to know what you of the town hall debate in how that might affect mitt romney going into the debate tonight? the format of being with the public, questions being asked of him by members of, you know, by american voters as opposed to moderators and in your experience debating with him does that get into mitt's head? >> i think it actually favors him. given what we've seen in this campaign and given what we've seen in past debates. he's a fabulous fabricator and i think when you see that from that exchange he's pointing at me, looking at me and basically i look bad because i'm saying you're not telling the truth, i was right, but in the middle of the debate it's hard to pin someone down who is so convincingly not telling the truth. we've seen so many etch a sketch moments in this campaign. he's getting good at it. i think this format unless candy crowley as she says she may interject herself a little bit, i think it perhaps favors mitt

romney because if he's going to consistently not tell the truth about his positions it becomes more difficult for president obama to point out those inconsistenc inconsistencies. >> i will say and i want to bring in ryan here, when romney's gotten mad in debates this cycle which is to say during the primary i didn't think it played well for him. came across as somewhat sort of overly aggressive and stilted and very frustrated. and that debate from 2002, the anger is a little more fluid. he's a little better at being angry and indigent in even though she's saying had he's a firmly pro choice candidate. do you think the same thing as far as what shannon is saying about this being a better format for romney? >> i think so. romney has learned the difference between stern which works for him and being angry which as you said didn't. there's something different, though, between this round of debates and what he had with

shannon in 2002. in '02, shannon sought out much more the aggressor and played rope a dope and he came back hard at the end. obama has started out weak and romney has started out the aggressor. i'm curious if you think that plays to obama's advantage a little bit, since romney won't be coming off the mat? >> shannon, the president sort of not -- is not playing possum up on the ropes how does that affect the dynamic had he is not the initial aggressor? >> i think if he has a pulse it's going to be an improvement. that's the thing. he has no place else to go but up. the fact is i think it's going to be difficult because, you know, unlike -- i thought martha raddtz did a terrific job moderating the last debate but here -- and correct me if i'm wrong i'm not sure if they have the follow-up and i think the one on one exchanges depending on how candy crowley does moderate this, the one on one exchanges become a little bit

more of a ballet for obama even if he is the aggressor. i think it dpinepends on how th debate is moderated tonight. >> you and i were talking about the inns and outs of the town hall debate and the questions asked by members of the audience, that there's not a lot of room necessarily, we don't know how candy crowley will play it, but for follow up and back and forth and pressing on the issue could give romney a free pass. i would offer to you, what about, though, the, you know, the guy that comes up that is someone that hasn't paid income taxes, that is a working-class american, says how can you say this about me and puts a human face on some of the remarks mitt romney has made in this campaign psych sxhl. >> i think for -- from the president's standpoint he has to hope that somebody asks that or a question that gets close enough to it, right. you can't pivot from what would you do to save american schools i would do a lot of things but let me tell you about what a jerk mitt romney is. it doesn't work. some ways one of the big risks

for the president tonight is that the questions are so softbally, that he never really has a chance to go in and raise the 47% or the tax returns or the tax rate that romney pays, all these things the democrats are hungry to see him talk about. >> you have to think he is going to have at least an arsenal of a couple arrows he will be sure to throw. shannon, you are familiar with the governor's record while he was in office and you've done -- the great lift of reminding us just what kind of governor mitt romney was. and some interesting tidbits, "the new york times" reports he spent 417 days out of state during his four-year term. you've talked about the elevator he had installed so he wouldn't have to deal with the rest of the massachusetts legislature. you know, tell us more about that and do you think that's the stuff that resonates with ordinary americans trying to determine who mitt romney actually is sp. >> i think the bipartisan argument is harder to make right now. tonight, the one thing that has to happen in a debate of this

format, is you have to connect with first of all the person that's asking the question and that actually takes time to kind of focus in and answer the question and then to broaden it out to the broader arguments or issues that you want to address. so, i think that it may be difficult to talk about that bipartisan stuff. that's almost a one liner in this debate. i think the most important is the big broad issues, how you connect with the individual people in that room and then how you take it to the rest of the country. >> thank you to shannon o'brien for joining us. always great to hear about your experiences with the man named mitt. thanks for your time. after the break it is a question everyone will be asking, during the great debate or will it? pepperoni? or sausage? we will wax pizza politics just ahead.

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governor romney has been less than clear about where he stands on several key issues pertaining to women including abortion. as ann romney stumped for her husband the campaign made sure that voters knew exactly where female supporters stand on the romney. >> this is a man that cares. this is a man that is a good man that has spent his entire life being charitable, generous, and caring. >> talk about the romney ticket's mixed messages when planned parenthood president cecil richards joins the panel next on "now." [ female announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance?

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v. wade. >> we have republicans trying to redefine rape. >> trying to force women to undergo invasive ultrasounds. >> if you think that this election won't affect you and your life, think again. >> vote. >> vote. >> vote for barack obama. >> that was a new ad for moveon.org underscoring the huge impact this election may have on women's health comes as live action is conducting undercover operations to discredit a number of women's groups, including planned parenthood. security cameras at planned parenthood caught a woman promising to make a donation if leaders of the group would meet with her. the woman asked a series of suspicious questions about president obama's policies and whether there was any [ inaudible ]. in a statement live action called suggestions of any operations rumors the had head of the group said --

a spokesperson for live action confirmed the woman was sent as part of a live action project. sus seal richards is the president of planned parenthood joining us on behalf of the obama campaign. cecil, the live action thing seems to be part of a broader effort to discredit and also shame and intimidate woman trying to exercise their reproductive freedoms. we've talked about mitt romney in this campaign and his pivot to the middle and one of the sharpest examples of that, the clearest examples was his position on abortion, which changed overnight last week and it was, you know, there's a lot of haze around tax policy and a lot of confusion there. but here was an issue, single issue, do you support a woman's right to choose and mitt romney was basically up a creek. how much do you think that's going to factor into the minds of women as they go to the voting booth? >> it's a great question and i think it's going to matter a lot. it was interesting to see in a vice presidential debate last week the absolute lowest point

when paul ryan said he wanted politicians, as he said it, to make decisions for women about their health care rather than women themselves. it was -- vice president biden's strongest moment. you saw on the screen where women and men said, they believe women should be making these decisions. and i think what we're seeing is, you know, no one is defe defending mitt romney's positions on wanting to overturn roe and get rid of planned parenthood, birth control coverage by insurance plans. they're simply trying to fuzz up the issue as much as possible so women don't know his true position. >> i guess the question is, given that, and given the position that party has taken which is so much further right than it has been even historically, why are we seeing -- look, polls change and polls -- the polls have been volatile this season to say the least. but "usa today" gallup poll among likely female voters has the president leading mitt romney by one point which is a much smaller margin than before. what do you think that's attributable to? >> i mean look, i think this

poll has -- various people have had opinions about this pom and we've seen poll -- you can find a poll at this point to support any point of view you have. it underscores that women are at a critical voting block in this election and this debate tonight is going to be important. i think women will be looking and watching to see and the difference again between mitt romney and president obama, president obama has been the best president for women's health care that we've had in my lifetime. and i think that these issues again, i hope -- i mink mitt romney caught a break at the last debate because women's issues weren't discussed. >> yeah. >> i think they will be tonight and i think that that's when women will have a very clear decision to make. >> i will say, they better be discussed. and i will say this because i thought martha raddtz was a good moderator but one question at the end of the debate and this is the last debate until the foreign policy debate this is a major issue. the thing we haven't talked about is the supreme court piece. >> i think it would be

interesting the questions tonight are going to be asked by common joes and josephines and not by a moderator. interesting if one stood up and looked at mitt romney or barack obama and said, if you're president will i be able to get contraception, an abortion, why i could have ultrasound and ask it directly. you know, we talk and debate about abortion a lot and talk about the impacts in the polls but rarely do you see an exchange of that sort in any political place let alone a presidential debate. again, it may come this is not front and center that we focus on economy, health care and education, and i would -- my guess is, a lot of people feel strongly about this are not amongst those .5% undecideds we are still obsessing over at this point in time. >> david, i take your point but look for women, access to birth control is an economic issue. i think there's been this false -- >> i understand that. >> and that's where again, mitt romney has said he wants to not only get rid of planned

parenthood health care provider to 3 million folks every year but end insurance coverage for birth control. for women that's a bread and butter ish. >> >> i will say this fuzziness for mitt romney is what he wants. we were talking at the end of the primary campaign, the obama campaign had a choice were they going to paint mitt romney as conservative really or as a flip flopper. they chose to paint him as extremely conservative. that's less attractive to voters, right? what did we see in that debate. we saw him re-set that. all of a sudden this acceptable moderate and that is their biggest it. >> i think on the question of abortion the fact he said there's no part of my agenda that has to deal with abortion and that was immediately a statement released by the romney campaign that said no, no, no, we're very much pro life, it is a difficult position for him to negotiate and if someone -- someone asks him, are you going to preserve a woman's right to choose how does he answer it? >> his debate strategy is so kind of brilliantly devious that he'll come out and say, look, i'm not going to make any

changes. it's not in the top of my agenda. what i care about is jobs. and then after the debate, it will be pointed out to him well if your agenda is implemented there will be changes okay, maybe that's true. but the moment in the depate he will just assert that don't worry about it it's going to be okay. >> there are two audiences they're playing to. what he did in the first, played to a big audience i'm a moderate guy and andrea saul comes rushing out saying that's not true, they're aiming for the base. there are two levels here that the people -- >> confusion but it's not confusion. >> strategic ambiguity. >> for everybody we say this and then the campaign to the people that are really paying attention says this. >> i think he's been extremely clear when he's gotten off camera that he wants -- interesting way, it is the exact opposite of the bill clinton position. he wants -- mitt romney wants abortion to be illegal, unsafe, and he wants to get rid of birth

control so also more common. >> cecil, can i say one other thing, we started to talk about the supreme court appointments and "the new york times" writing today in an editorial, well to do women living in places where abortion is legal would travel to other states, women lacking the resources would be forced by the government and politicians to go through with a risky pregnancy, attempt to self-abort or turn to illegal provider for help. the repercussions of overturning roe v. wade and the importance of a supreme justice, appointment to the bench, has not been something that has been discussed much in the debate and yet, you think about that scenario, this is mitt romney, someone who said he would be delighted to sign constitutional ban on abortions and he would appoint people like justices scalia and thomas to the court it's something that needs to be out there and discussed more. >> i agree. and you put it well. folks are asking me, i just got back from florida on the roaded and folks are asking me what would really happen? you look at the map, the "new

york times" had a good story, 30 states in this country, women immediately b ll lly would not o get a legal abortion. there are some parts of the country this will not have an impact, women well to do, but millions of women here who don't have access and don't have access to safe legal care and access to birth control. this is what i don't understand. how can mitt romney say we're not going to make abortion illegal and make birth control almost impossible to get. >> it's a hypocritical and confusing position. >> i agree. >> i will refrain from judgment on this. thank you to planned parenthood and cecil richards as always. >> after the break while team romney touts small polling gains a great divide remains when it comes to the support of latinos. something to do with the governor's less than clear immigration position. remember this? >> if you don't deport them how do you send them home. >> the answer is self-deportation, people decided they could do better going home

because they can't find work here because they don't have legal documentation to allow them to work here. >> we will discuss romney's trouble with hispanic voters and what might be the biggest forgotten issue or second biggest on your list, coming up next. m only in my 60's...

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you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility -- what's your policy? my dad you probably know was the governor of michigan and was the head of a car company but he was born in mexico. and, had had he been born of mexican paperses i would have a better shot at winning. actually, mitt, that is so true. the reason latinos aren't voting for you because your policies suck. >> that was rosie perez a peering in a new web ad

sponsored by a pro obama super pack that comes as a new poll shows support for president obama slipping slightly from 72% to 67%. while mitt romney support has itched up three points from 20% to 23%. immigration dominated the conversation during the republican primaries it's been largely absent from the general. romney outflanked his opponents taking a hard right tack on illegal immigration. remember this one. >> if you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought there by no fault of their own i don't think you have a heart. >> i think if you're opposed to illegal immigration it doesn't mean you don't have a heart. you have a heart and a brain. >> now as part of his great pivot to the middle romney has adopted softer language focusing on the president's failure to pass xroe hensive immigration reform a shortcoming obama himself recently acknowledged.

>> well, as you remind me my biggest failure is we haven't gotten comprehensive immigration reform done. >> will romney's attempt to self-deport the hardline severely conservative mitt pay off? a florida university/miami herald poll shows him narrowly trailing obama 51% among 44% among hispanic voters in the sunshine state. the gap largely attributable to cuban-american voters. given the importance of the hispanic vote and immigration reform will tonight be the night we finally hear the two candidates outline their policies? q. joining us from austin, texas, nbc latino.com and msnbc contributor victoria de francesca. you will have to pardon my bungling of your beautiful name. >> that's okay. >> let's talk about the immigration question, weirdly largely absent from the back and forth between mitt romney and

barack obama over the last couple weeks. do you think tonight could be the night? >> you know, i think it will. even though to a lesser extent than i would like to see. immigration is one of these issues that neither the republican nor the democratic party has wanted to touch with a ten foot pole during this general campaign season. on the democratic side obviously because we don't want to remind the latino electorate of the broken promise of not going through comprehensive immigration reform and on the republican side mitt romney doesn't want to soften too much because that would alienate his base at the same time he doesn't want to chip away at that 20, 23% of latino support he has now. they're stuck in a tough place and both parties prefer to keep it on the back burner. >> josh, i want to ask you about this. they're huge economic implications and consequences of illegal immigration here in the u.s. in terms of the lack of discussion of it and being a centerpiece of this campaign season, i thought this poll that

latino decisions did was interesting. because the -- getting hispanics out to the voting booth is very -- it's important for the president an yet there's an enthusiasm concern with little to no attention for latino voters since the convention, enthusiasm among latino voters slightly dropped which may indicate the race may turn to turnout versus candidates. is that, as victoria says, because neither candidate is offering something that compelling to them some. >> i think that's part of it. i think obama also needs to bear in mind for all mitt romney's epic colossal difficulties with his subject president obama has been very strict at cracking down on the borders and doing things to anger some in the latino community. it isn't an automatic win or plus for him to start talking about this. the other thing that's important, we showed the percentage, the figure in the opening statement of this

support slipping somewhat. it's important to note that's higher than the margin by which he won them in 2008. he benefits to an extent by not talking about this issue. >> let's talk about the president's record on immigration. the administration has deported more illegal immigrants in its first three years, 1.1 million than any administration since the 1950s. >> it's been horrible. and for those million plus people that have been deported they get detained beforehand. we're detaining more people who are inknow sent of any crime because being here illegally without papers is no the a crime. it's a civil offense. so there are more people sitting in these jails in prisons than we've had before, you know, according to a freedom of information act we filed a while ago. it gets to the point where the numbers are so large almost everybody starts to no somebody who has been swept up in this kind of hideous net and so, you know, josh is right, that it

doesn't automatically play well for him because what romney can do is just go center or even left on it. he can say look, i'm going to go -- >> he can do anything. he's mitt romney. >> absolutely he would. he -- dismissed his $5 trillion tax cut last time as if he didn't have any idea what obama was talking about. he could come out and say you failed to do comprehensive immigration reform, i'm going to get it done and he's already said that he will keep obama's deferreded -- >> the amnesty program he has. >> he'll keep that in place. so, you know, he can say whatever he wants. >> victoria, as far as the dream act being a sort of -- look we understand latinos are not a monolithic block and not one thing will play to all of them, but as far as the dream act has become a very waded and freighted subject, if they're asked about this tonight obama supports the dream act and clear about that, he hasn't established his amnesty program do you think mitt romney needs to come out with a clear

position and if he does adopt the president's position do you think that's enough to bring a larger share of his panelics to his side of the aisle? >> mitt romney one thing he has been consisted on he doesn't support the president's dream act. what he's saying recently he supports another version of the dream act something nor akin to what marco ru bo has been talking about, you're not necessarily going to grant amnesty but grant permits, work permits for people to come over. so i think if immigration comes out it's going to be a romney version of a dream act he's going to talk about. >> the romney versions of everything. thank you to victoria -- why can't i get it victoria defrancesca soto. >> it's perfect. >> a beautiful name. thank you. >> thanks. >> coming up health care, tax cuts or free pizza for 30 years. a pizza hut stunt backfires. we'll do bait the merits of pepperoni versus sausage next in what now. questions?

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oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty.

here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. welcome back. time for what now. first a little breaking newsp the supreme court has refused to issue an order that would have cut back on early voting in ohio. probably good news for the president as early voters seem to have been breaking for him and certainly ohio is a place he has his eyes on. and now pepperoni or sausage? pizza hut offering free pizza to life for anyone who asked the question at the debate but they are shelving the initiative after some negative feedback. ryan? >> first of all this was a total sham. this was not free pizza for

life. free pizza means any time i want pizza, i can have pizza. >> pizza for life. >> until you die. >> pizza for life actually in this instance meant one free pizza a week for 30s years. >> cheap. obama could have said i put in place a health care law that would have save you on your hospital bills. you won't have to go broke. >> and mitt romney would say both, obviously. >> yeah. >> are you pepperoni or sausage? >> if i had to choose i guess i go pepperoni, but i'm more of a mushroom olive guy. >> we have to live it there. thank you to josh, ryan, scott, and david. "andrea mitchell reports" live from hofstra university. good afternoon. >> good afternoon, alex. thanks so much. coming up round two. we'll talk about the debate, town hall strategy, with both campaigns. we have robert gibbs, a noisy crowd behind me of students, romney campaign adviser kevin madden plus tom brocade, chris cizilla, michael gerson, john

heilemann and senator callie hyattp. all that plus secretary of state hillary clinton responds to tough attacks on libya from the republicans about benghazi. we'll talk to kelly ayotte about that as well. join me live from hofstra, debate day, coming up next. ah. fire bad! just have to fire roast these tomatoes. do you churn your own butter too? what? this is going to give you a head start on your dinner. that seems easier sure does who are you? [ female announcer ] new progresso recipe starters. five delicious cooking sauces you combine with fresh ingredients to make amazing home-cooked meals. ♪ ambiance [ female announcer ] new progresso recipe starters. your head-start to home cooked.

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