tax day. oh, has everybody filed their taxes? yes. you have? >> yesterday. 5:00 p.m. >> meeting our accountants at the holiday inn later today. >> that assumes we have accountants, joe. you and me scratching them out together. >> when i said accountants, i meant bookies. bus on the wet the former governor of pennsylvania and msnbc political analyst, ed rendell. the managing editor of "fortune" magazine andy serwer. willie, let's talk about the masters. even for people that don't watch golf, this is the day. >> so much fun. >> that a lot of people stop and at least see the masters. >> it rarely disappoints. >> what year did you win your green coat? i was '87. i was after nicklaus. >> i was '85. people forget. >> we sandwiched -- >> the year of jack so people forget us.

unfair. >> he put the green one on me. >> we are linked together in history. adam scott 32-year-old from australia won on the second playoff hole. become the first australian ever to win the masters. it was just a great duel down at the end. he made a put on the 18th hole in regulation that lift around and went in and looked like it was the winning putt. he celebrated a little bit but then angel cabrera, the 43-year-old from argentina, came back and hit a cold blooded approach within about a couple of feet and tied it up and sent it to a playoff hole. it was the second playoff hole. fun to watch the two of them. great competitors and both of them classy. >> brandt snedeker one of your people? >> what does that mean one of your guy? >> a vanderbilt guy. >> he is going to get one one of these days. brandt is a great player. >> snedeker is vanderbilt?

>> born and raised in nashville. tied for the lead going into yesterday. >> we always pull for that guy in our house. >> you love angel cabrera. hard not to root for that guy. >> i do, joe. angel cabrera is every man. he looks like the average weekend golfer. you know? >> a duffer? >> i love the fact he doesn't labor over every shot. he gets up there and he swings and has a good time. i was rooting for him especially because he had his son on the bag. >> almost made that putt on the second playoff hole. >> absolutely. and almost made the putt on the first playoff hole. >> it's a forfortune. you get zuckerberg on here and looks more serious than the drubbing he has taken on wall street. i'm just curious. i just saw this. he says it's probably one of the biggest mistakes he ever made. was he talking about getting

married? >> he was talking about neither. the mogul strategy. he is kind of growing up. he looks a little older. a little more serious. >> a little more serious. they are about even. they are at 27 now. like 27, 28. i swear. it was right where willie and i said they were going to settle. again, we were talking to our -- >> the stock price? >> yeah, the stock surprise. brokers early on. we predicted this. we predicted 27. again, i say brokers like accountants, it's rookies. >> but professionals help you. >> but they are about 27, 28. >> it's a -- a billion customers and they are figuring out people are using facebook on mobile phones now and especially with this new platform they have got that is working on androids and moving there. you have to wonder does android have the momentum over the apple i phone now? >> i think it does.

i'm trying out this nokia that that a microsoft platform. i tell you what, man, it's great. visually it's great. the best phone visually i've ever looked at. there is still a few problems. >> right. >> i immediately -- any time you're on mobile device you want to go to icloud and get your pictures or itunes and get your music. so you disconnect it from that. i think something that will that a little while. apple is in for a run for their money. >> if you go to asia, everyone is using androids and samsung is so powerful there. contrar >> there wasn't a big enough jump. apple better reinvent themselves pretty quickly. >> i think that's right. >> how did marco rubio do?

variety hour yesterday. spanned seven networks. >> i thought he did well. >> in fact, he was being interviewed longer than the masters coverage. how did he do? >> i thought he did well. this business is going to run into trouble with the conservatives, i don't buy. i think conservatives will be looking for a winner. >> look at this, by the way. that is pretty impressive. >> great they are all talking. i thought it was a still shot. >> the ubiquitous marco rube know. >> i thought he did pretty well. i think someone has to talk common sense to republican voters and i think he has positioned himself to be the one to do that. >> did they ask about the lady, willie, stalking hugh jackman? >> no. david gregory let the country

down by not asking that. >> he needs to read the "new york post" more. she was talking to you a couple of weeks ago so she kind of bounces around. gun legislation faces uphill fight in congress. still the bill made it to the floor without facing a filibuster. susan collins of maine says she will back the proposal saying it doesn't infringe on second amendment rights and saying it may not be popular in her home state of maine. cube yo said it would not mark it harder for criminals to get guns. >> they are highly accomplish in protecting the right of law abiding citizens to possess weapons which the second amendment guarantees and constitutional right and if the reason why we are doing this in essence spending our time talking about background checks

as somehow criminals no longer get guns because they have to get a gun to go through a background check we are lying to people. that isn't true. the fact of the matter is we have a violence problem in america. guns are what people are using but violence is their problem and nobody is having a debate about the violence problem. i think this is a missed opportunity to have an honest and open conversation in the country about why these horrible and horrifying things in this country are happening. >> that is a ridiculous argument saying somebody will not get a gun or a knife through a checkpoint if police are there. the arguments are all speechless. is that a word? to argue that criminals are still going to get guns so let's throw our arms up in the air because we can't do anything about it! criminals are still going to get guns! >> the idea you shouldn't have laws because laws will be broken

is a nutty argument. what is interesting to me about the gun debate in the last few days is this sign that the gun lobby itself is splitting a little bit so they are feeling some heat and i think part of the reason is because we are seeing something we rarely see in washington which is a lot of real citizens in this case citizens who suffered in the newtown tragedy. parents coming to capitol hill and telling their stories and you can't look at joe manchin from west virginia and not think he was personally affected by that encounter. those folks are not going away and not stop bringing their message once the legislation gets to the house. they will be all over the house of representatives too. i see a little bit of change in the tone of this. total inside washington debate, a great powerful lobby. the lobby is splitting a little

bit. one part of the gun loby is saying we can xep the background checks provision and then you have all of these folks from connecticut and other places that have had tragedies coming and telling their stories. i still think -- i would guess we would be likely to get some kind of legislation out of this. it won't be perfect, far from it. >> may not. how you don't get background checks when it's a 90/10 issue. >> yeah. >> i fear for people like marco rubio who think they are -- they are playing basically to 7%. i fear for them politically. it seems like the safe thing to do and it's not the safe thing to do. not in the long run, because americans want to be able to stop al qaeda from being able to walk into gun shows and get assault weapons or get semiautomatic weapons or whatever issemantic games peopl 79 to play. they don't want them to get bushmasters on the interpret or at gun shows and make sure that

people who have committed violent acts, whether violent acts of rape or manslaughter, 90% of americans think it's a pretty good idea that these people get background checks before they are sold guns. >> people do think that. there is a common sense factor here. and then there is just the basic enough factor. enough of these tragedies without doing something to try to get a better regime in place. the only thing that worries me about the legislation we are talking about now, frankly, people have real mental issues who are also gun owners, let's say, who might not seek that they need to deal with their problems because they are afraid they might not pass a background check in the future. somehow, you got to figure that out so we don't create des incentives for people getting the help that would deal with

kind of underlying emotional problem making them so dangerous. >> that is extraordinary important and why we need to talk about mental health challenges more. in new york state, you have gun owners that have mistakenly had their guns seized from them because of mental health problems. we are seeing a real problem with that and that is something that this legislation has to spell out. ed rendell, over the weekend, backers of this legislation picked up support from gun rights groups, citizens committee for the right to keep and bear arms. also richard feldman president of the independent firearms association and on round table last week with us with vice president joe biden and is backing the background bill and the white house continued its own pr offensive keeping parents and relatives of newtown front and center.

unfortunately, some democrats talking about not having the courage to face voters next year. democrats running for senate appear to be too cowardly to go out and try to make it harder for members of al qaeda to get bushmasters at gun show. >> so ludicrous as you pointed out because of the polls. you break the polls down in every state -- >> what would you say to democrats that are running away from 90% issue? >> you're dumber than a wuss. >> and you're going to lose? >> and you're going to lose and lose support. look. the whole argument is the reason you're seeing some of the gun groups come over is because as pat toomey said, background checks aren't gun control. >> by the way, pat toomey supported background checks and still got elected to the senate. >> absolutely. he is going to get, i think, he helped himself for re-election by what he did. you know what is disingenuous

about the rubio argument? they say background checks don't work, let them vote for banning high capacity magazines because we know that in tucson, loughner fired 33 bullets. >> you know what? he better be hopping straight to a presidential race and primaries in new hampshire and south carolina. i tell you what, that position, 94% of people in florida, 94% of people in florida support background checks. 94% of people in my home state, willie, support background checks to keep bushmasters out of the hands of al qaeda and out of the hands of violent rapists. this is simple. so i hope it worked for marco in des moines because it's not

going to work in hillsborough county. >> that's not an argument never to check the background of anyone ever. >> right. >> maybe in this case it wouldn't have done anything and that is probably true. but they have already, as we have said many times, they have already won gun rights advocates on of these issues. not going to be an assault weapons ban and not limit the size of clips. >> shame. >> for something that doesn't do a lot of harm to your cause you would give on this one item. >> and it might do some good. >> something that everybody knows keeps their children and keeps our children safer. >> if they want to stop newtown, limit magazine capacity. take the mass out of mass murder. >> we will see what happens. my bigger concern as a person that supports second amendment and always supported the second amendment but thinks we need a

few reasonable regulations on the fringes, my concern is we republicans lose control of this debate. look like extremists during presidential campaigns and we continue to elect democratic presidents who continue to nominate liberal justices who will do more to turnover heller and take away our second amendment rights. that is the real concern and that is where extremism on this issue ends up hurting our cause, our second amendment rights. it's tax day. >> yeah. >> willie, you and i -- we pay zero% taxes but that is another story. on this tax day, new analysis from politico. last year's campaign when the president went after mitt romney for his tax rate. at an event at virginia beach the president said this.

quote. my opponent thinks that someone who makes $20 million a year like him should pay a lower tax rate than a cop or teacher who makes 50,000. president obama released his tax return this week showing that he paid an 18% tax rate. so a guy who i hear is worth $14 million, he is paying a tax rate far lower than what a teacher pays. i'm speaking slowly so this sinks in, andy, the hypocrisy is mind boggling. that this president plays class war fare for a year and a half on the campaign trail. let's keep this graphic up. he attacks mitt romney for paying a lower tax rate than school teachers repeatedly! democrats repeatedly attack mitt

romney for paying a lower tax rate than teachers, than warren buffett secretary, god help her, god bless her, and, yet, this president, after demagoguing this issue for a year and a half, pays an 18% tax rate which, by the way, is half of the tax rate that i pay. i would guess it's half of the tax rate you spay. >> yeah. >> and we don't know. he's got the cayman island accounts. i guarantee you it's halftime of the tax rate that willie geist pays. why? why? why? politically, why? why would he do that? >> i can't believe it. that number just screamed at me. 18.4%. >> can we put that up again? how much? 18%. >> i was figuring yesterday and watching all of my money. gets toward 50% if you live -- >> this is a problem with liberals that come forward and talk about raising taxes on the

rest of us! and raising taxes on small business owners and having these rich guys come on tv going, let's raise taxes. i don't need tax cuts. those guys that are saying it are paying 16%, 17%, 18%! barack obama has been championing raising taxes on small business owners for years! and he is paying 18% in taxes because raising those taxes don't affect him! and he talks about fairness? this guy, this guy talks about fairness? and he is paying 18%? he wants to jack tax rates up to 39% and if you live in connecticut or new york or illinois or california, you're paying over 50% in taxes after you take the local, the state, and the national! and barack obama, class warrior, is playing 18% in taxes. >> can you imagine the conversation he had with his

accountant? because he has one, unlike you two guys. and just saying, listen. 18.4, can you get it up a little bit, right? why does he pay so little? shouldn't he have sent more to the treasury to make himself get out of this hole? but i don't know why. >> david, does limousine liberal ply in this case? i see these billionaires get on tv, why don't we we just raise taxes? i don't need these bush tax cuts. yet, it's a small business owner making 400, 450, that has 10, 15 employees and lives in new york city and plays ungodly rent of 17,000 a month and barely breaking the -- the business breaking ahead and you got guys paying 18% in taxes saying let's jack their taxes up 5% this year. >> if president obama is watching this show, he is whispering to michelle, sweetie, can we write a little check this morning and get joe scarborough off our back? i have no idea what accounts for that low rate. often, it's very substantial

charitable contributions that ended up loring the tax rate and you need to look at his return. i have to say even if he did just pay a low rate, to me, that doesn't really undermine the arguments for changes in the tax code to tax cuts for the most wealthy. i think those were good for the economy. i don't think they will have a harmful effect on growth. so like you, i look at that graphic and athink, geez, what kind of a chump am i to be paying so much money? but it doesn't really change the -- >> the thing is, yes, he gave a lot of charitable contributetions. >> 150,000. >> mitt romney gave a lot of charitable contributions. does anybody at this table have the luxury of giving so much charitable contributions to get our rate down to 18%?

the guy is making money on books and a lot of different things. 18% is 18%. i don't care. everybody is going to come out and try to spin this. 18% is 18%. >> i agree with that, joe. the only thing you can say to defend the president is he was in favor of the buffett rule which would have meant he would have paid, what, 30%? >> 30%. >> the buffett rule would cure exactly what you're talking about. look. i hear corporations all the time, business leaders say we pay the heiss corporate taxes in the world, 35%. "fortune" had an article where it showed what the 2,000 cop corporations paid in effective rate, 17%, right, andy? >> that's right. >> we don't have the heiss tax rate in the world because of the tax expenditures. >> i support the buffett rule. >> and so does the president. >> the president should have paid 30%. i support the buffett rule but i

pay more than 30% every year. you pay more than 30% every year and most of the people i know pay more than 30% every year. >> i got no problem with somebody saying i paid 18% and i aggressively used every loophole i could use, all right? but don't lecture me a year and a half how you want to raise my taxes 5% more. if you're paying tax rates in the teens. and i hear it from billionaires and hedge fund guys all the time. let's just raise taxes. yeah, that's really easy for you. it's not so easy for small business owners. >> sure, because the guy, hedge fund guys say let's raise taxes. he is paying 11%! >> yeah, with carried interest and the other garbage on there. i tell you what, and i think there are a lot of republicans that would agree with me. we need the buffett rule. we need a 30% minimum. it's not fair that these guys that are making 20 billion a

year, you know, and with carried interest, it's just not fair that they are paying so little in taxes. and it's a bad example for the president of the u.s. to be paying 18% in taxes appear he demagogued this issue and specifically the politico article, specifically attacked mitt romney for paying taxes in the teens. >> and what were he and his accountant happy about that? they didn't think this would come out and bite them? >> coming up, senator chris murphy will be with us and representative marsha blackburn and ken burns and then steven van zandt, a member bruce springsteen's e. street band. first, here is bill karins. spring is trying to break out.

>> today is patriots day. boston marathon is today and the red sox game. a big deal up there and get to the forecast in a second. one place in the country it doesn't feel like spring or even early spring. north dakota. unfortunately, they got nailed last night with more heavy snow. windchills are currently 17-degree range and rapid city a windchill of 5 and not much better in minneapolis. still snowing very hard right now from grand forks to fargo. interstate 94 is actually closed across the state of north dakota because it snowed so hard. this is the most snow bismarck, north dakota, ever had in one storm in april and their records go back to the late 18 hundreds and this is unheard of heavy snow event. what is behind it? another snowstorm. it is going to snow today in colorado and snow will break out in wyoming. cheyenne, whimg, could pick up a foot of snow. this is a new storm. the white coloring there is 3 to 6 inches expected possibly from omaha north wards to the

canadian border and upper peninsula of michigan reports of three feet of snow on the ground. the poor northern plains. on the east coast light rain left from the soaker yesterday. i mentioned the boston marathon today. it is going to be chilly. last year too hot to run and 51 degrees which is perfect for the runners but sitting in the stands at the baseball game, probably a little chilly. northeast you're looking better than fargo. i'm sure it's a snow day for everyone there. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ watching the young girls dance and messing with his frozen stone ♪ ♪ to remind him of the feeling of romance ♪ ♪

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♪ time for a look at the morning papers. let's start in arkansas from our "parade" of papers. secretary of state john kerry returns to the united states today after a six nation trip to asia.

he told reporters in tokyo the united states is open to negotiations with the north korean government but only if the regime takes measures to abandon its nuclear weapons program. over the weekend north korea rejected calls by south korea. south korea looking to begin talks between the two countries. >> why don't we send jimmy carter there and stop north korea from having nukes. >> you're right. this is the same cycle we are familiar with. belligerent talk from north korea and attempts to reach out by the united states and sometimes the united states and china and other regional players and period of negotiations and more belith residenth rent. it's a same to repeat this process that has been so frustrating. secretary kerry has said any talks would be about

denuclearization of the korean peninsula. you have to be in a discussion to get rid of your nuclear program. chance of that happening i would have to say is fairly slight. the u.s. made significant concessions, limit our defenses in the area to deal with kim jong-un's threats, that, i think, a lot of americans would resist. yes, we are back in that cycle of they have threatened and now we are saying negotiate and we will see if we can get some diplomatic process. >> north korea has become sort of a late night punch line but there will be a point at which the threats should be taken more seriously. how seriously does the united states government take them? >> willie, i think we actually cross that point. in this latest crisis, which began in february with their third nuclear test, the north koreans began very specifically to threaten to attack the united

states. our military planners responded in the only way that they could and should which was to think about the possibility that they meant it, so to get missile defenses in the region, to think about other ways to defend against this, we have got a lot of submarines that can move essentially undetected in the area, lots of other assets. we overthrough the korean peninsula with our most advanced stealth bombers. this is now more a direct military challenge to the united states and what worries neighboring countries, especially china, that means a lot more u.s. military power in the region. the last thing they would have wanted to see, one of the reasons they are ticked off at kim jong-un he has brought forth a very american power thrust they don't like to see. >> one was telling me over the weekend he was in the room when

a senior military official ripped into kim jong-un and called him a fat little boy king. just the americans were just shocked. they had never heard of the chinese go off on him like this. >> they meant that in a good way, right? >> never in front of americans had -- the chinese have had it and getting fed up. >> i've heard the same intelligence reports. you and i must be talking to the same sources that the chinese have been using language that is very unusual. that little upstart that they speak about kim jong-un they never did in a way about his father or his grandfather because he is causing them problems and he is destabilizing their neighborhood and they don't like it. >> let's go to politico now. mike allen has a look at the playbook. good morning. >> good morning and happy tax day. >> happy tax day. i don't know if we can say that. >> unless you're paying 18%! >> 18.4%!

>> that's a good day. >> i'll even say 19%. >> that's a good day. mike, talk about the piece you have up there about a growing rift inside the republican party over gun legislation. >> yeah, the table has been talking at the top about how this is common sense and arguably even minimal legislation. but mitchell mcconnell will do everything he can so sink it. we have intel here about despite the spring excitement in washington about partisanship and having deals and dinner and this toxic architecture remains. senator mcconnell reportedly doesn't want to be in the room to negotiate a deal with harry reid. so much bad blood left over from

the fiscal cliff deal that mcconnell would rather talk to obama about the deal. he doesn't want harry reid there in the room. we have learned that mitchell mcconnell plans to attach poison pills, vote in amendments to kill the manchin/toomey compromise. includes votes on having guns in national parks and in federal buildings by national concealed carry standard. the point of these is to force democrats into such tough votes. democrats may be in in red states who are up in 2014 that they are going to say to senator reid, pull this bill and don't make us do this. >> mike, as you look around, pat toomey said yesterday on one of the sunday shows an open question whether or not we have the vote and a fight to the end to get enough votes if he does get them. what is your sense, given what you're just reported by mitchell mcconnell and republicans and moderate democrats he may bring with him, what is your sense of the vote count right now?

>> we are seeing now exactly why he was saying it was an open question. senator reid would need 60 votes to advance it and three, maybe four democrats that he might be lose. so senator mcconnell has a lot of leverage here and why top senate strategists are telling us there is a 40% chance that this eventually goes to the president's desk, that is maximum, where immigration would be 60% with a much better chance you put together a coalition on immigration than on guns. >> let me give you my odds. a 40% chance that this will go to the president under a republican now? 90/10 issue? if they don't do it? >> democrats. >> there is a 90% chance that it will go to the president's desk. mike allen, thank you very much. the masters has its first major champion from down under. is that austria? we are digging deep with our

"dumb and dumber" jokes this morning. adam scott wins his green jacket in dramatic fashion. put another shrimp on the barbecue. i'm serious. should we not make all of our children watch "dumb and dumber." >> they already are. >> i'm saying once they get into school, they have got to see it! ♪ [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ge has wired their medical hardware with innovative software to be in many places at the same time. using data to connect patients to software, to nurses to the right people and machines. ♪

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show you the highlights of the masters we told you about at the top of the show. needed a couple of extra holes to get it done but adam scott is your masters champion this morning. he and 2009 masters champ angel cabrera looking good as they worked on the back nine on sunday. this for the one-shot lead in the clubhouse looked like that putt in the rain would win him the tournament but watch cabrera's response. putts it within two feet and sticks it there and drains the four-footer i guess it was for birdie. a tie at the masters. both players made par on the first playoff hole that turned into a putting contest on the 2nd.

cabrera putting first. good read. good putt. he just pushes it right. that leaves the door open for the 32-year-old scott and he drains a 15-footer to win the masters! that's the second playoff hole. he gets the green jacket. 1.4 million. not bad. a spot in the history books. he is the first australian to win at augusta. >> i'm a proud australian and i hope this sits really well back at home and even in new zealand. not just because of craig but, you know, we had the kind of tra transtazma out there on the bag with steve. it's hard to exactly put it all together in my mind at the moment. it's a real honor. amazing. >> adam scott's caddie he is talking there is steve williams is from new zealand and he was tiger woods longtime caddie.

speaking of tiger. a disappointment for him. never got back from the two-stroke penalty assessed after drop on friday. he didn't play poorly but finished tied for fourth place. bogeys in the 5th and 7th and three birdies on the back nine to claim his 11th top five finish in masters. he lost won there in 2005 and by the time he gets there next year, it will be nine years since he won at the masters. >> they asked him what he had to do to win he said i have to shoot a 65 and he thought that would win it. 65 would have put him 10 over and he would have won it. >> as for the eighth grader from china, guan teen language finished 12 over par and made the cut and played over the weekend and won the silver cup for the lowest amateur score. he was one of the highlights of this tournament. bright future for that guy. >> can you believe it's been

eight years now since tiger won the masters? >> eight years and it's been a long time since he even won a major but he is playing really well. i think he was thrown off by that two-stroke penalty but it was the right call. >> is it my imagination or is he -- did he loosen up a little bit this weekend? >> he was talking to the media more. >> he seemed to be a different tiger. >> his girlfriend was down there, right? >> lindsey vonn was there, his girlfriend but he is playing great too. >> i thought he handled the penalty very, very well. >> i thought he did too. >> do you think he should have dq'd himself? >> no. the rules were changed specifically to cover a situation like this and that rule change should be the operative factor. they really blew it, the pga, because they didn't catch it until tiger admitted to it. >> how strange is it that viewers text in and they responded? what if if that was with every sport? he travels! go back! >> social media. still ahead on "morning joe," ben smith will join us

here on the set and our friend bob herbert will also join us. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. i do a lot of research on angie's list

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♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." we are now going to talk about a case that is going on in philadelphia that the mainstream media has not been talking about and a lot of conservative outlets as well didn't really start paying attention to until last week. "the wall street journal" op-ed page hasn't written on it. weekly standard. national review. i think the "weekly standard" first commented on it last week. but i tell you what, it just exploded. hi a friend e-mail me on wednesday saying, hey, this is a case that the mainstream media is not talking about. a lot of conservative outlets

aren't even talking about it. i checked into it and i'm stunned by what i found. with us now to help us through this, criminal court reporter for the philadelphia enquirer, joe slabowingan. talk to us about this case out of philadelphia about this gosnell murder case. it is an abortion clinic. the stories that have come out of that clinic are graphic and horrific and they are hard to read. i've got to say after reading them, you know, i felt -- i felt as repulse after i read the details of newtown. what is going on down there? >> well, you're correct. it's a horrific case. probably the most horrific i've seen until something worse comes along. essentially you have a doctor

gosnell who has been sort of a fixture in west philadelphia for decades running a family practice and also doing abortions on the side. in 2010, there's a state/federal task force investigating prescription drug abuse. they go on a raid of his clinic at 30th and lancaster and instead of the drugs, they find a clinic providing late-term abortions. he is eventually charged by a philadelphia grand jury with seven counts of murder involving fetuses which were born alive and then killed by dr. gosnell, allegedly, with a pair of s sissors and snipping their spine and charged with killing a 41-year-old virginia woman come up for abortion and given too

much demerol, the sedative he used by untrained staff and she died. >> the stories, the condition of the clinic, urine all over the place, flea-infested and animals going around there. women, when they walked in, women half conscious and half unconscious, drugged in waiting rooms. i want to be careful, not too many details here, certainly because, again, i talk about newtown and newtown, we know a lot that we didn't say on the air because it is so offensive. but infant beheadings and severed ba severed baby feet in jars and a child screaming after it was alive. so many case. in one case, reportedly allegedly, this is what the grand jury saw, the grand jury report, that there was a child born at 30 weeks, killed by this

doctor who made a joke that the baby was so big, he could have driven him home. that is for me, personally, absolutely stunning and repulsive. my youngest child was premature and 27 weeks, 28 weeks. we are not talking about abortion here. we are talking about murder, aren't we? >> that's exactly what the prosecutors have said, that these late-term abortions were done way beyond pennsylvania's 24-week threshold. after that, it's illegal unlele the mother's life is in danger. what they are saying is these fetuses, they would have been born viable and alive and they were killed and that is what constitutes the seven counts of first-degree murder. >> joe, it's willie geist here. the obvious question, as you read through this grand jury report, and you see how long

this was allegedly going on is where was the pennsylvania department of health in all this? we know they made a couple of visits there maybe. how did they not identify this? if this was as well-known and widespread and people coming in out of state to guess these abortions was reported, where was the department of health? >> what the grand jury and prosecutors have said it in the trial, they were awol. they had not been in to inspect the clinic in more than ten years. and i guess the one piece of testimony from last week was a case of a 14-year-old girl who came to the clinic, started the medication to cause an abortion, but she actually had to go to an emergency room because she was sent home. the delaware county medical examiner said this fetus is 30, maybe even 31 weeks old and

contacted, wrote a letter to the pennsylvania department of health saying this was an illegal abortion and never heard back. >> wow. all right. is the trial going on today as well? >> yep. it starts at about 10:00 this morning and the prosecution is still presenting evidence. they may finish up the end of the week, maybe early next week, then the big question is whether dr. gosnell will testify in his defense. >> joe, i thank you for this. you are covering this from the beginning and would love to have you back tomorrow and through the week if you have time to stay up on this and see what is going on. >> my pleasure. >> thank you so much. ed, this was happening -- this is a coincide but this was happening before you were governor, after -- >> during. >> and after. >> and after you were governor. i got to ask you a tough question here.

the grand jury and the prosecutor has said one of the reasons why this clinic wasn't investigated is because there is political pressures. whenever somebody wants to go in and investigate an abortion clinic or do tough regulations on it, suddenly, people start screaming and yelling that somebody is trying to take away their constitutional rights. what happened here? again, i think it was more bureaucratic than that, joe. i never heard anything about that. when i was district attorney i prosecuted a doctor for doing exactly what dr. gosnell did. >> what years were you governor? >> 2003 to 2010. >> you never heard about this? >> never. there were two or three commissioners during my time but what happened was philadelphia regional office, in a state as large as us, we have got

regional offices, they just didn't do their job. i can guarantee you it wasn't because of political pressure. if you're pro choice like i am, you want guys like this found, arrested, convicted. you want those clinics closed because it's when i was a young d.a. and i prosecuted the doctor, i picked up the phone and i called planned parenthood and all of those folks and said get down here and support what i'm doing. >> if you were running for governor even as a democrat next year, would you call for tougher regulations on abortion clinics? >> absolutely. >> so places like this weren't inspected once every decade? >> not only tougher regulations but better oversight. i think the regulations that were in place would have been sufficient had there been oversight, had there been active oversight. >> we will be right back. he can focus on his recovery. he doesn't have to worry so much about his mortgage, groceries, or even gas bills. kick! kick...

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hey, coming up, toomey/m toomey/manchin bill, we will talk about and "the new york times" saying divisions within the party are making passage more difficult and we are talking to ben smith and bob herbert who will join the table next. my mantra?

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is this bill what we wanted? no. no. is it what the nra wanted? no. but does it at least help in some small way? >> no. >> no, probably not. >> we are confident that this bill will pass the senate and it will then go to the house of representatives where it will immediately get shot down. >> that's right. and that is is not a metaphor. no, they will literally throw the bill up in the air and shoot it down. i've seen it done. >> welcome back to "morning joe"! with us now is democratic senator from connecticut senator chris murphy and editor in chief of buzz feed ben smith and distinguished fellow bob

herbert. bob, you made a great provide before. you were listening to what has going on in philadelphia in the gosnell case. you said it was so horrible. you said, you know, as a reporter, when you look at a story -- like when i get the details from newtown of what happened to those little kids, it was so terrible, you didn't want to hear it, but you knew you had to hear it. in this case, you were talking about -- you know, you read the first paragraph of this story with gsosnell in philadelphia. you turn your eyes away and you said as a reporter, that's when you know you have to pursue it. >> exactly. you have to present this to the viewers or to your readers but when there are things in there that just repel you so much, you don't even want to think about it, you know the story is important. and then you get to the point where there are details where you can't even reveal them publicly because they are so foul and so hideous and that is when you know this is an issue that is off the charts. >> it's off the charts and just

like the grand jury report which i retweeted but i just can't say on tv parts of it like i couldn't say the details of newtown just because people need to go, if they want to know, they need to read the grand jury report. we are going to try to have the d.a. on in the next day or two to talk about it. but you actually were talking. buzz feed has been following this story for a little while, haven't you? >> yeah. it's a horrendous story and hard to tell. imagin images in the grand jury report we didn't feel we could put on the site. it's hard to politicize. a lot on both sides of the abortion site fight have things they can take away from it. there were women who felt they were forced to go to this abortion clinic. >> they were drugged and untreated and unsanitary conditions. >> some felt they couldn't go to

other clinics because there were protesters outside or they couldn't afford them. at the same time, when you hear about the details of late-term abortion you see why a lot of americans are very uncomfortable after a certain point in pregnant. >> i was just saying. we are talking about babies. >> this is beyond late-term abortion. >> babies, 30 weeks killed. allegedly killed 30 weeks. my son was born 27, 28 weeks and as i walk through the icu, a lot of babies were 24 weeks. what was viable in 1973 has changed and that definitely has changed. this is just absolutely, absolutely sickening. and, you know, i've been saying, chris, senator, i've been saying for some time that americans are becoming more progressive when it comes to same-sex marriage but -- you know, a lot of catholics in connecticut, they are becoming more conservative when it comes to abortion.

they just are. nbc news/"wall street journal" poll out, which even surprised me this past week, said that 52% of americans believe abortion should be legal and 45% believe it should be legal. there's such a sea change. i've been telling my party, i've immunize telling republicans don't take an extreme position on guns because all you're going to do is push people away. i feel like saying the same thing to people who are pro choice. don't fight an open investigation here. don't fight safeguards at abortion clinics and don't fight tougher regulations at abortion clinics because you're going to turn -- won't that turn more and more americans against abortion? >> i think ultimately there is nothing extreme about our position against abortion and it should be up to everybody individually. i don't think it's a great

parallel to guns. >> i'm talking about anybody fight increased regulations at abortion clinics like this. i'm not talking about being pro choice. i'm talking about i'm already hearing some people going out saying, you know what? there's an ideological agenda against abortion. we are talking about keeping these women safe. >> any time there are outliers like this, the government should crack down. that has nothing to do with keeping abortion safe and legal for people who want to do it within the confines of the law. >> if a woman is going to have an abortion, because abortion is legal in this country, then you want it to be accessible and safe if you want it to be done under sanitary conditions with qualified practitioners and that sort of thing. one of the problems in so many parts of the country, it's just not available and then women go to the terrible alternatives. >> there certainly a campaign on the right to make it in lieu of

banning abortion to make it incredibly difficult to get. this is the downside that people wind up going outside the law and i think the abortion rights movement i mean, is not defending gosnell here although, you know, somebody from the national abortion federation refused to certify his clinic and didn't call the cops which is pretty damming. >> no doubt about it, pretty damming. we don't have women on the set so we won't continue to talk about abortion. but instead talk about the debate on the little about gun legislation. there is still deep divisions among members of both parties. susan collins of maine announced she will back the proposal saying it doesn't infringe on second amendment rights but understands it's unpopular in her own state and i guess that was underlined by the governor of maine aggressively inviting gun makers to come to his state.

on sunday, senator marco rubio went on seven or eight shows and said that actually a background check would not make it harder for criminals to get guns. >> they are highly accomplish in protecting the right of law abiding citizens to possess weapons which the second amendment guarantees and constitutional right and if the reason why we are doing this in essence spending our time talking about background checks as somehow criminals no longer get guns because they have to get a gun to go through a background check we are lying to people. criminals will no longer get guns because they have to undergo a background check we are lying to people. that is not true. the fact of the matter is we have a violence problem in america. guns are what people are using but violence is their problem and nobody is having a debate about the violence problem. i think this is a missed opportunity to have an honest and open conversation in the country about why these horrible and horrifying things are happen. >> yes, senator rubio criminals will still get guns. the idea is to make sure fewer

criminals get guns. to make sure members of al qaeda don't go on the internet and say to jihadists across the world come, to america because we don't have criminal background checks that are sufficient. so people can actually buy bushmasters and other military style weapons on the internet or at gun shows. i don't get the logic. congressman peter king is expected to introduce the house version of the bill as early as today. over the weekend backers of legislation picked up support from gun rights groups and citizens committee for the right to keep and bear arms. also richard feldman president of the independent firearms association and announced his group is backing the manchin/toomey background check bill. so, senator, what does it look

like? do we think that manchin/toomey has a chance of passing the senate? >> it does but it's going to be close. 60, 61 votes. listen, senator rubio is just wrong, right? since the brady bill went into effect, 2 million people who were legally prohibited from owning guns were stopped at the gun store when they went in because they tried to get a background check and couldn't get it. the argument the criminals will obey the law law is ridiculous clus. any time you pass a law some people will not obey it so -- >> like the tsa checkpoints at the airports. bad people are still going to try to smuggle through drugs, too much cash, contraband, knives. >> doesn't mean we stop doing it. >> exactly. doesn't mean we shut down what the senator suggests we shut down all screening at airports tomorrow because criminals will still smulg things through there? >> i think what has happened here you can't explain the

opposition of background checks because the nra is powerful. what you have here today is a bunch of gun control darwinists, right some who just believe natural selection will take care of this problem. you put guns in the good guys and bad guys you hope the good guys stop the bad guy. they say the only way to stop a bad guy is a good guy with a gun. you can't stop the background checks by saying the nra is powerful. i think a lot will vote against this and way to solve this is throw a mess of guns out and there let the folks shoot it out. it me a while to figure out there is a philosophy underlying this that allow people to justify being against background checks. not just that the nra are telling these guys to vote the wrong way but they believe the streets will be safer if criminals have guns and it's ridiculous. >> it's a 90/10 issue, ben. i'm not talking about assault weapon bans or high capacity

magazines. i'm talking about criminal background checks. 90% of americans support this. in florida, where marco rubio is from, 90% of floridians in a very conservative state support criminal background checks. i hear a lot of people making noise and posturing. i've been in washington long enough to know that if something is 90/10 issue, it passes. >> yeah. there's certainly a dozen or more republican senators feeling that right now and weighing relatively small number of angry people who remember this versus a broader number of people who will support this. i think the question is whether they feel an intensity to their support whether they will be rewarded or who care are the nra. >> we showed earlier this morning, bob, something the president said in politico attacking mitt romney, saying that millionaires, obviously, think they only have to pay about, you know, 17%, 18% in taxes? the news came out overnight what the president paid in taxes.

you just kind of wonder, right? right? where were the political advisers and who was his accountant? the president pays, after attacking mitt romney for a year, the president pays 18.4% in taxes! >> this is tax day. my sister's birthday also. and i generally say it's the only day where you think you made too much money over the course of the year, right? >> can i read this quickly? president obama said during the campaign, my opponent thinks that someone who makes $20 million a year like him should make a lower tax rate than a cop or a teacher who makes $50,000. i've heard estimates the president is worth $14 million. and he is paying less in taxes than a teacher. >> yes, at some point -- it's good to get this attention put on the issue. at some point we have to look at ordinary people, working people and middle class people and that sort of thing who shouldn't have to pay a much larger percentage of their income in taxes than folks who are very wealthy and

the president is a very wealthy individual. >> he is a very wealthy individual. senator, the president has been running around talking about how the rich have paid their fair share and getting a free ride off the rest of us and rich aren't contributing, the bush tax. i keep hearing billionaires on my show saying i don't need the tax cut. they don't need the tax cut because they never pay! they don't pay what i pay! they don't pay what you pay. they don't pay what any of us suckers that got a salary pay. th they get their tax cut because they have the best accountants and best lawyers. it just seems unbelievably unfair. >> 18% is a pretty high rate to pay for people that are making that amount of money. you know? maybe the president should get another set of accountants. >> 18% is high? would you like to pay 18%? i'd love to pay 18%!

if i could pay 18%, i mean, sign me up, brother? i need the president's accountants! it smacks at hypocrisy, doesn't it? >> the fact is we can't run this country based on the amount of revenue we are collecting today. we can't collect 18% from people making that much money and be able to afford to build roads and bridges and educate kids and do the research we need to. we need to make the admission this nation can't run on collecting 17% of gdp and largely making out of the the people making that kind of cash. >> you have hedge funders up in your state? >> yes. >> how did hedge funders who make billions of dollars, how do they get meese special deals? i'm just jealous, first of all, they got that money and secondly i can't pay 15% in tax rates. how have we let that stay on the

books as long as we have? >> first of all, it's not just a carve out for hedge funds. this is an issue about broader pass-through income that hedge fund managers collect a lot of it. i think we have built up a mythology in this nation that tax policy drives all economic decision making and not true and maybe not the extent it used to be. if a hedge fund manager pays more in income not change their decision making and not top them from making risks. they will still make billions of dollars. i think we have to step back and say that this millingoloytholog people only investing mon ining 15% tax rate so not true. >> you hear in the "times" st y story -- >> they make money when they lose and when they win. >> the game is rigged and, you know, you have to keep talking about it until you get to a

point where the mantjority of t country says we will not take it any more and we want a fairer deal. >> senator chris murphy, thank you for coming by. >> thank you. >> good luck. >> thank you. >> ben and bob, stick around, please. the founding member of bruce springsteen's e. street band will join us, steven van zandt. also joining us is marsha blackburn and chuck todd. steve case will join us to discuss the second internet revolution. tomorrow we will be talking to a nobel prize winner. tweet us your questions on what is it like to ask using the #afternoon joe. ♪

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congresswoman marsha blackburn and also chuck todd. we saw a shot of mika running in a run withdrew are from. >> it's a the marathon for women's. they honored ten women and ten different career sectors. i was one of the ten. hi a team run and it was great! >> you had a team running? >> yeah. >> that's what i would do. i wouldn't run myself but i'd had a team running. how did your team do? >> they did great. one came in under two hours. it was a wonderful day and everybody was so excited to meet mika! she was just fantastic. i'm proud of her. >> show the picture, guys. how did she do? >> she did great. i don't remember what her time was but it was just fantastic. >> was she eating a twinkie while she was running? >> no, she was not eat ago twinkie! she was out there running. she was doing it right and like so many of us, we are putting

the attention on fitness and health for women and women breaking barriers and dina caster came out and ran yesterday and she broke her record, broke the course record and so it was great. >> that's fantastic. chuck todd in washington, were you running a marathon yesterday? i'm just curious. >> i know with 26-year-olds at my 6-year-old's birthday party, i would say you tell me, joe. that is the equivalent. i would just make that argument. you're almost as exhausted. >> if i could, i'd rather run a marathon. chuck, i have a lot to talk to you about. who was advising the president on paying taxes after attacking mitt romney for paying in the teens? paying 18% when he is is worth 14 million. who advised him to do that? >> they were trying to highlight a couple of things. look at the charitable money he gave and he did give almost a quarter of his income to charity which lowers the rate. they want to use it, yes, we

agree you with, joe, he doesn't pay enough in taxes. >> a way to fix that, chuck, of course. >> pay more in taxes. that's why i asked. how come he hasn't just written more in taxes? and they say well, he is already donating 5% of his salary back to treasury. he is giving all of this money to charity. >> welcome to the budget fight! >> exactly. >> here is the interesting thing on that. if the president felt like he needed to pay the federal government more, he could take out his checkbook and take out a pen and stroke a check to the u.s. treasury and he has the ability, the opportunity to write an additional check if he thinks his taxes are too low. we will be able to go down and pick it up for him and take it over to treasury. >> chuck, making it worse is the president and politico is reporting it this morning, the president was talking about how shameful it is that mitt romney paid less in taxes than teachers

paid in taxes and, yet, barack obama, again, worth reportedly $14 million, paying less in taxes than teachers or warren buffett's poor overworked secretary. >> right. the one thing the white house will say is he does himself bring up the poij thnt that he believes he doesn't pay enough in taxes and that will be the argument they make on that front. >> chuck, we have been talking about this horrible, horrible case out of philadelphia. >> right. >> the gosnell case which is you get into the details and it's absolutely stagger pregnant. our staff put up numbers from your nbc news/"wall street journal" poll last week. i must admit i've been saying on this show for some time americans are getting more progressive on same-sex marriage and more conservative on abortion. i was shocked at the turnaround. 52% of the americans in the

latest nbc news poll say they want abortion to be legal and only 45% say they want abortion to be legal. we're really seeing, and we have for a couple of years now, a sea change on abortion, are we not? we are showing a chart through years of a real sea change. have you notice thad? >> well, what i've noticed over the laugh few years you see that there isn't a consistent -- you know, it's basically we are in the same place but we're within a floor and a ceiling on that, either just on the north side or 50 or just on the south side of 50, depending on your point of view. but particularly one of the things that you've seen say 20 years ago where those numbers wernt that close, the, quote, pro choice numbers were higher always consistently than the pro life numbers today. >> why is that? >> it's technology. i've been surprised the pro life

movement hasn't let science and technology win this argument for them and don't force it. the mistake i would say some made politically was forcing the issue and then ending up making it about contraception and when the conversation was about contraception, those on the anti-abortion right side it wasn't even going to be close. >> yeah. >> chuck, again, you look at the numbers. you look at everything that is happening and you talk about technology. i had a premie, he was born between 27, 28 weeks. some of these children that were being murdered by this doctor in philadelphia, one was at 30 weeks. he joked that the baby was so large that it could drive him home. but there are also, marsha, we are talking about children. i call them children. >> they are children. >> 24 weeks. as i walk through the part in

pe pensacola seeing my young baby boy i was walking by so many babies that were 24 weeks, 25 weeks. things have changed a lot since 1973 in roe. >> they have. chuck is right. it's technology. when people hear that young heart beat and they see that son owe gram that is their baby and look forward to the day they hold that baby in their arms. then you hear this gosnell case. it has been horrifying to me and i am really thankful that the media is beginning to cover that case, because it is atrocious. it is absolutely atrocious. those of us who have had children in nic-us and watched that struggle for life with those little tiny two-pound, three-pound babies, and then see them grow, it is just incredible and you think this guy chose to

end that life. >> well, yeah. jack is going to turn 5 pretty soon. when it happens, when you have a premie, you just wonder whether he is going to live or die and you sit there and so emotional. parents would always come up and he would go, they are always the toughest and they are! all of my other kids get shots and look and start screaming. you give jack a shot and he'll look down and go like this. i went through a lot of that in my first six weeks in nic-u. >> i'm very much and always have been pro choice on this issue but, you know, i've interviewed a tremendous number of survivors of the wars in afghanistan and iraq who, because of medical advances in technology, would never have survived the wounds

that they had. they are alive and living lives and stuff, whereas, if it had been vietnam, they would not have survived. you have these medical advances and you have to pay attention to them and make a lot of decisions, even if you're talking about abortion and abortion rights and that sort of thing. i think what happens is the whole landscape gets obscured by politics and it becomes tough on these high profile issues to have a rational discussion. >> you see it in newtown on guns. you're now seeing it just in the first couple of days in gosnell on abortion where the extremes on both sides decide they are going to take a tragedy and they are really going to exploit. not to say that newtown shouldn't change the gun discussion and gosnell shouldn't change the abortion discussion but the extremes go too far. >> this guy is charged with several counts of homicide under

the laws of pennsylvania, a fairly liberal state by prosecuting attorneys in a liberal city, philadelphia. so this isn't exactly about roe. this isn't exactly about the constitutional issues. what he was doing i don't think anybody is -- >> i think the impact is going to be when it comes to regulations, to make sure that, as bill clinton said, what was his atrilogy on abortion? you have it being reported to strip away safeguards and regulations for abortion clinics. i think in this part of debate i think it will have a substantial part of the -- >> joe irk. >> chuck? >> it's interesting you brought up newtown and gosnell. i feel you have, for instance, a pro gun crowd saying, there is no law. we are as outraged about newtown

and no law could have changed it and then you hear about gosnell. this guy wasn't running an abortion clinic and he wasn't an awful doctor. he was a butcher, he wasn't following the law. i think that's where you see some odd similarities but folks who have passion on this side when it comes to the life issue say, no, no, no, no. this should be a call to arms in the same way gun control folks are saying, no, no, no, newtown folks should be a larger part of the conversation. when you talk about gosnell you need to talk about poverty and this guy was taking advantage of poor women and taking advantage of trying to give them an easy way out and different things. we have to have a holistic like we do in newdown. >> no doubt about it. >> i think what you'll see with the gosnell case, people will focus on, yes, the regulations but also ending federal funding of abortion and that will come

back into play. i think that with newtown, you will see more of an emphasis on the mental health components and who it is that commits these atrocities and how they get carried out and maybe realizing it's not always about the gun. many times you need to address those mental health issues and medicating children at a very early age. >> as chuck said and we had it here we have to have a holistic discussion on gun violence and as chuck said, the same here when you toot look at gosnell. thanks a lot, chuck. what will we see in "the daily rundown"? >> a lot of immigration and guns and how this is about one person. it's not a gang of eight, it's a gang of one. mr. rubio. >> very good. congresswoman, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> what is going on in the next 14 seconds?

what is going on at buzz feed? >> marco rubio, a gang of one is all anybody is talking about, it seems like. >> very good. we will be right back with more "morning joe." ♪ come and get it for crying outloud ♪ it's monday.

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>> five youths were arrested at 96th street all between 14 and 15 years of age. >> they got them! >> you can only imagine the pressure to have this crime solved and solved quickly. ♪ >> first, we was altogether and then started to put us in different rooms separately. >> what did you do? >> who were you with? who did you come with? the tone was scary. i thought they might take us into the back of the precinct and kill us. that is part of the trailer for the central park five. it tells the story of five teens raping a woman in the 1990s. everybody was talking about it. with us is coproducer of the film, ken burns. i remember after living in pensacola, florida. the kids the best and brightest

always want to come to new york city and i remember parents in the early '90s saying don't do it because of what happened to this young woman. of course, she was -- >> i was edding my civil war series and i think we all bought the whole line. everybody accepted the story they had done it, they were guilty and this was it and confessions were confessions and we all wrung our hands and said what happened to our city and our families and they didn't do it. they spent 13 years in jail for a crime they didn't commit. >> when did you get on this? because you were on this early. >> my daughter -- >> you were talking to me about this two -- >> my daughter sarah who is the codirector with my son-in-law a filmmaker i've collaborated with 15 years they brought this brought this story. they wrote the book on it and we couldn't believe it. we want to ask how does a tragedy like this happen and who were these five? they completely lost their voice in 1989. if you remember the central park five you were among the worst human beings ever. and now they actually mean some

heroic wise young men lived through several circles of hel and still the city in ten years -- these civil suits they launched ten years ago get settled in a year, a year and a half. the city is insisting they won't settle even though their own district attorney reinvestigated and joined with the defense to vacate their convictions after they served out all of their time. >> bob herbert you were with the detail times. 89, '90, '92, it was the bleakest time, i think, in this city. i remember leaving one time in 1992 saying i will never, ever come back to this city again. it was the most miserable existence. so horrible crime happening at a horrible time in this city that was struggling to stay above water. >> it was such a tough time. you know, this is very early in my career as a columnist.

i'm writing a column for "the daily news." this terrible thing happens. this is one of the few times where i feel -- i mean, i was on the wrong side of this issue because i thought these guys were guilty. but one of the things that happened there, the woman was so brutalized that it really seemed like she had been attacked by a gang and then they had confessions and this was before i had done all of the work that i subsequently did on criminal justice, so you don't have an understanding of how people will confess to these terrible crimes. >> 30 hours for a 14-year-old with a seasoned detective saying, you know, look. we know, joe, you didn't do it but bob is saying you did it and you're saying who is bob? if you just tell us that bob did it, we will let you go after 30 hours, no lawyer, no food, no parents, no nothing like this. and nobody questioned it. bob is right. everybody bought the party line and the party line just fed into our worst nightmares about new york. >> what was -- what did you learn about the psychology of

the prosecutors and the cops? i remember i interviewed -- she still is creating a story maybe the kids were also involved. >> reputations were made from this and other things. linda fehr has retired and written a novel. >> this is the prosecutor. >> i like to say she continues to write fiction because the original scenario she is clinging to desperately nobody on the cops or the prosecutors would give us an interview. because they couldn't answer any of the questions. their own department reinvestigated and found these kids didn't do it and the district attorney said if i had known then what i know now, i wouldn't have even indicted these kids. there is no dna evidence. there is incredibly bloody crime scene as bob is suggesting but nothing of the crime scene on these kids and none of the kids on the cream scene. a lone semen sample when the rapist confesses is comes together. >> one of the important things it is now 2013 and i think the

wider public still does not understand how much prosecutorial misconduct is out there. >> tomorrow night watch this thing. it's amazing. the city, you know, subpoenaed all of our outtakes and notes and federal magistrate rebuked the city saying, no, the city accused us. and all our film tells us what happened from 1989 when this horrific crime happened after setting the scene of how bad new york was, up and to the point in which their convictions were vacated. it's the facts, ma'am. >> "the washington post" journalism like any other profession relevant to this case did not earn any honors until now. the only solace that can be derived from the sad story is now it is a story remarkably told. a society injustice system can improve as a result of lurching into a officially administered injustice and then revulsion and

reform requires the presentation of sympathetic victims to a large audience which the central park five does. >> this is from a conservative columnist. does. >> you might expect to be on the other side of this issue. this is not a left-to-right issue, this is an issue of justice. if we say liberty and justice for all, we ought to mean it. it shouldn't be for people who can afford it or for people who are unaware of their miranda rights. it shouldn't be a 14-year-old spends 30 hours in interrogation and the cops still insist 24 years later this week that they were acting in good faith. you don't coerce a confession and call that good faith. it's time for the mayor to wake up and say, look, as part of my legacy let's put a period at the end of this long run-on sentence of injustice and say liberate not only the five and their families but the cops and everybody else. >> ken, always great to see you. congratulations on this. we appreciate it. "the central park five" airs tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. on

pbs. make sure you watch it. coming up next, the "morning joe" football frenzy with roger bennett. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ construction sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪

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bennett. roger, so much to talk about. we've got to start with that fa cup. >> the vast national tournament in which every team plays down to the final four. two of those four appear to be fuel chelsea and abu dhabi's team. manchester city struck first. the giant rumbling through the chelsea defense like a tank through mountinged cavalry. >> nobody touched him the first half. he did whatever he wanted to do. >> indeed. look at this one. they freeze the goalkeeper. that's the kind of goal that blake griffin would score, i imagine, if he was a futboler. chelsea, they go all cirque du soleil on this one. they fought manfully to find an equalizer but couldn't find one. man chester city goes to the

final against wiggin. >> the wiggin game was marred by just ugly, ugly hooliganism from milwall. that's a rough, rough town. they are such a rough town and such a rough group of fans that fights broke out. but it was between their supporters. >> they beat each other up in the stadium. it was a perfect way to honor mrs. thatcher by bringing back the 1980s hooligan days. it was an ugly weekend for behavior. newcastle sunderland there was a riot after the game where a man tried to fight a horse. it was ugly. >> there's a lot of drinking going on. whoo! >> newcastle --

>> this is not a nazi. >> he's a self-confessed fascist. the fans rejected him. deeply socialist. but against newcastle, their arch rival, he led their team to three points. this man has a mussolini tattoo on his arm. the fans hated him. but three points makes you love anyone. >> three points is three points. >> three points is three points. >> you know who did not get three points this weekend? liverpool. oh, dear lord. >> another season of mediocrity, joe. there's always hope, and it's the hope that kills you. >> spoken like a true everton fan. there are the standings and man u. just running away from it. let's go see lever pool and everton. i think it's may 5th.

coming up, surprising new support from two pro-gun groups. can congress muster the courage to pass a bill with 90% support? and we're going to be talking more numbers. president barack obama paid his taxes. guess what his tax rate is? that's next. ♪ ♪ i've got the power people lose 5x more weight following the weight watchers approach than trying on their own. you can too.

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he wins! adam scott. a life-changer. >> good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. since mika is not here, i have advice for you. stay in bed. pull the covers up over your head. go into a fetal position if you have to. avoid work, avoid life. what did timothy leery say? >> turn on and drop out. >> turn on and drop out. you don't even have to drop acid, just stay in bed. back with us we've got former governor ed rendell. i'm making him nervous right now. also andy serwer and in washington, david ignatius. willie, let's talk about the masters. even for people that don't watch golf, this is the day. >> so much sglunfun. >> so many stop and watch the back nine of the masters. what year did you win your green

coat? i was '87. >> i was '85. >> you were '85? >> we sandwiched -- >> it was the era of jack so people forget us. >> so you put the green jacket on him and he put the green one on me. >> we're linked forever in histo history. adam scott, 32-year-old from australia, won on the second playoff hole. became the first australian ever to win the masters. it was just a great duel down at the end. he made a putt on the 18th hole in regulation that sort of lipped around and went in. it looked like it was going to be the winning putt. he celebrated a little bit but angel cabrera, the 43-year-old from argentina, came back and hit a cold-blooded approach within a couple feet. tied it up, sent it to a playoff hole. that was the second playoff hole. it was just fun to watch the two of them. great competitors, really classy both of them, and a good day for adam scott. >> and one of your guys, brandt snedeker? >> one of you people. >> he's a vanderbilt man. he entered sunday tied for the lead. >> a vanderbilt guy.

>> i knew you would fall for that line. >> he's going to get one one of these days. brandt is a great player. snedeker is vanderbilt. born and raised in nashville. >> he's come close a couple times. >> he was tied for the lead going into yesterday. >> we always pull for that guy in our house. ed, you love angel cabrera. it's hard not to root for that guy. >> angel cabrera is every man. he looks like the average weekend golfer. >> a duffers? >> a duffers. and i love the fact that he doesn't labor over every shot. i was rooting for him especially because he had his son on the bag. >> almost made that putt on the second playoff hole. >> absolutely. and almost made the putt on the first playoff hole. >> right, right. debate begins this week on gun legislation. it faces an uphill fight in congress. still the bill made it to the floor without facing a filibuster but there's still deep divisions among members of the party.

"the new york times" spells it out pretty accurately this morning on the front page. but republican senator susan collins of maine announced she's going to back the proposal saying it doesn't infringe on second amendment rights. while saying that may not be popular in her home state of maine. senator rubio said the bill would not make it harder for criminals to get guns. >> they are highly ineffective in terms of accomplishing the following goal and that is to protect the right of law-abiding citizens to get weapons and ineffective in keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals. in essence we are spending all of our time talking about background checks as if somehow criminals will no longer get guns because they have to undergo a background check, we're lying to people. the fact of the matter is we have a violence problem in america. guns are what people are using but violence is our problem. foebd is having a debate about the violence problem. i think this is a missed opportunity to have an honest and open conversation in this

country about why these horrifying things are happening. >> with all due respect to marco rubio, that's an absolutely ridiculous argument. that's like saying somebody is not going to get a gun or a knife through a check pointipoi police is there. david ignatius, the arguments are all specious. did i use that word correctly? to argue that criminals are still going to get guns so we just -- >> we shouldn't do anything. >> let's just throw our arms up in the air because we can't do anything about it. criminals are still going to get guns. >> that argument certainly is specious. you know, the idea that you shouldn't have laws because laws will be broken is a nutty argument. what's interesting to me about the gun debate in the last few days is this sign that the gun lobby itself is splitting a little bit. so they're feeling some heat. and i think part of the reason they're feeling heat is because we're seeing something we rarely see in washington, which is a

lot of real citizens, in this case citizens who suffered in the newtown tragedy, parents of children who are dead now, coming to capitol hill and telling their stories and sitting with these members. you can't look at joe manchin from west virginia and not think he was not really personally affected by those encounters. those people are not going to stop bringing their message once this legislation gets to the house. >> i see a little -- a little bit of change in the tone of this. typically total inside washington, great big powerful lobby. well, the lobby is splitting a little bit. one part is saying we can accept the background checks provision and then you have all these folks from connecticut and other places that have had tragedies coming and telling their stories. so, you know, i still think -- i'd guess we'd be likely to get some kind of legislation out of this. it won't be perfect, far from it. >> ed rendell, over the weekend

backers of this legislation picked up support from a gun rights group, citizens committee for the right to keep and bear arms. also richard feldman, president of the independent firearms association and one of our guests on the roundtable last week with joe biden also announced his group will be backing the manchin-toomey bill and the white house continued its own offensive keeping parents and relatives of newtown victims front and center. i know there is some pushback quietly within the caucus. unfortunately some democrats talking about not having the courage to face voters next year. democrats running for senate appear to be too cowardly to go out and try to make it harder for members of al qaeda to get bushmasters at gun shows. >> it's so ludicrous because of the polls. you break those polls down in every state -- >> what would you say to democrats that are running away

from a 90% issue? >> you're dumb and you're a wuss. >> and you're going to lose support. look, the whole argument is -- the reason you're seeing some of the gun groups come over is because as pat toomey said, background checks aren't gun control. >> pat toomey supported background checks and still got elected to the senate. >> absolutely. and he's going to get -- i think he helped himself for re-election by what he did. but you know what's disingenuous about the rubio argument, joe, if they're really interested in something that works and they say background checks don't work, well let them vote for banning high-capacity magazines because we know that in tucson, loughner fired 33 bullets, hit 19 people. had the magazine been limited to 10, he could have only hit ten people so marco, if you're interested in something that works, pass a ban on high-capacity magazines. >> well, you know, we'll see what happens. my bigger concern as a person

that supports second amendment and has always supported the second amendment but thinks we need a few reasonable regulations on the fringes, my concern is we republicans lose control of this debate, look like extremists during presidential campaigns and we continue to elect democratic presidents who continue to nominate liberal justices who will do more to turn over heller and take away our second amendment rights. that's the real concern. that's where extremism on this issue ends up hurting our cause, our second amendment rights. it's tax day. >> yeah. >> willie, you and i -- well, we pay 0% taxes, but that's another story. but on this tax day, a new analysis from politico examines the way politics continues to be driven by economic grievances. the headline "barack obama, class warrior" talks about last year's campaign when the

president went after mitt romney for his tax rate. at an event the president said this, my opponent thinks that someone who makes $20 million a year, like him, should pay a lower tax rate than a teacher who makes 50,000. meanwhile, president obama released his tax return this week showing that he paid an 18% tax rate. so a guy who i hear is worth $14 million is paying a tax rate far lower than what a teacher pays. i'm speaking slowly so this sinks in, andy. the hypocrisy is mind boggling. this president plays class warfare for a year and a half on the campaign trail. let's keep this graphic up. he attacks mitt romney for

paying a lower tax rate than school teachers, repeatedly. democrats repeatedly attack mitt romney for paying a lower tax rate than teachers, than warren buffett -- poor warren buffett's secretary, god help her, god bless her, and yet this president after demagoguing this issue after a year and a half pays an 18% tax rate which, by the way, is half of the tax rate that i pay. i would guess it's half of the tax rate you pay. >> yeah. >> and we don't know. he's got the cayman island account. but i can guarantee you it's half of the tax rate that willie geist pays. why? why, why, why? politically why? why would he do that? >> i can't believe -- that number just screamed at me. >> could we put -- >> 18.4%. i saw that yesterday. >> can we put that up again. >> when i was filing and figuring yesterday and watching

all my money, you know, gets towards 50% if you live in new york city. >> this is a problem with liberals that come forward and talk about raising taxes on the rest of us, and raising taxes on small business owners and having these rich guys come on tv going let's raise taxes. i don't need tax cuts. and those guys that are saying it are paying 16%, 17%, 18%. barack obama has been championing raising taxes on small business owners for years, and he's paying 18% in taxes because raising those taxes don't affect him. and he talks about fairness? this guy, this guy talks about fairness and he's paying 18%? he wants to jack tax rates up to 39%? and if you live in connecticut or new york or illinois or california, you're paying over 50% in taxes after you take the local, the state and the

national and barack obama, class warrior, is paying 18% in taxes. >> can you imagine the conversation he had with his accountant? because he has one, unlike you two guys. and just saying, listen, 18.4, can you get it up a little bit? right? why does he pay so little? shouldn't he have sent a little more to the treasury just to make himself get out of this hole? >> david, does limousine liberal apply in this case? i really do. i see these billionaires get on tv. you know, why don't we just raise taxes. i don't need these bush tax cuts. and yet it's a small business owner making 400, 450 that has 10, 15 employees, lives in new york city, pays an ungodly rent of 15, 16, 17,000 a month, barely breaking -- the business breaking ahead. you've got guys paying 18% in taxes saying let's jack their taxes up 5% this year. >> if president obama is watching this show, he's whispering to michelle, sweetie, can we write a little check this

morning and get joe scarborough off our back? i have no idea what accounts for that low rate. often it's very substantial charitable contributions that ended up lowering the effective tax rate and you need to look at his return. and i have to say, even if he did just pay a low rate, to me that doesn't really undermine the arguments for changes in the tax code to remove the bush tax cuts for the most wealthy. i think those are -- were good for the economy. i don't think they're going to have a harmful effect on growth. so, you know, like you, i look at that graphic and i think, geez, what kind of a chump am i to be paying so much money, but it doesn't really change the political argument. >> and the thing is, yes, a lot of charitable contribution. >> 150,000. >> guess what, mitt romney gave a lot of charitable contributions. let me ask, does anybody at this table have the luxury of paying

so many? you know, giving so many charitable contributions that we can get our effective rate down to 18%? the guy is making money on books, he's making money on a lot of different things. 18% is 18%. everybody is going to come out and try to spin this. 18% is 18%. >> i agree with that, joe. the only thing you can say to defend the president is he was in favor of the buffet rule which would have meant that he would have paid, what, 30%. and the buffett rule would cure exactly what you're talking about. look, i hear corporations all the time, business leaders say we pay the highest corporate taxes in the world, 35%. "fortune" had an article where it shows what the top 2,000 corporations paid effective rate, 17%, right, andy? >> that's right. >> we don't have the highest tax rate in the world because of all of the tax expenditures, all of the loopholes. the buffett rule cures this. nobody pays less than 30% who makes more than a million dollars. >> i support the buffett rule. >> and so does the president, in

fairness. coming up, his resume reads founding member of bruce springsteen's e-street band, original cast member of "the sopranos" and now you can add broadway director and producer to that list. willie, that ain't bad. jersey boy gone good. holy cow. steve vanzant joins us straight ahead. also josh green is here to preview his magazine's third annual "how to" issue. how to negotiate with a democratic president and hopefully the founder of the magazine, mayor bloomberg, on how to make $24 billion without even trying. first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning to you, joe. i'm here with my 800th winter forecast of the season. it's ridiculous that i still have to talk about the white stuff but that's what happened. this was in north dakota over the weekend. bismarck picked up 17 inches of snow. that's the most they have ever seen from a snowstorm in the

month of april in their history. weather records go back to the 1800s and we're still getting more and there's another storm on the way. this is beyond ridiculous at this point but it's still knowing around grand forks. fargo it's beginning to end along with bismarck. even fargo picked up 7 to 9 inches of snow, which is a lot for this time of year. so here's the snowfall forecast. i really thought i was done showing these maps for the next storm. notice it starts today all the way from denver up to cheyenne, wyoming. possibility of a foot of snow in which i an, wyoming, today, tonight and early portions of wednesday morning. we're even going to get snow in nebraska, iowa, northern wisconsin. so the southern half of the country, you are warm, feeling like spring, early summer from dallas to new orleans down to florida, but it's still bitterly cold to the north. when that happens in springtime, you're going to get strong thunderstorms. it looks like tuesday is a little bit of an outbreak and then i'm a little concerned more

with wednesday, already a moderate risk of severe weather oklahoma city to tulsa to southern portions of kansas. we are watching about four million people with the potential of dealing with tornados come wednesday. that will be the big weather story this week. looking at washington, d.c., not a bad day, a little clouds this morning and a little sunshine this afternoon. your watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. the capital one cash rewards card

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josh green, this week's issue is the how to issue where some of the foremost leaders in

politics and business teach you pretty much everything you'd like to know. former governor ed rendell and buzzfeed's ben smith are back with us. when ben is around, you just feel energy crackling. >> i do. look how grown up he looks in the tie too. we should have interviewed you on how to look professional. >> i told him i saw him earlier today. i saw you like the 40 under 40, like the top young movers and shakers. i said in fast times, fast company. he's probably been in fast times before. >> so how to. i've got a question. i want next year to pay 18.4% in taxes. i want that to be my tax rate. how do you do that? >> you get yourself elected president and get a damn good accountant. not mitt romney good but just pretty good. >> good enough. 18.4% is good enough for any of us around the table. >> i filed mine earlier this year, 33% this year.

almost twice the level of our president. >> so you've got a lot of how to. how to read lips, how to think big, how to manipulate creative people. >> we interviewed -- >> what's your favorite how to. >> that's one of them. how to manipulate creative people. compliments are free. compliments are like having a wad of dollar -- $100 bills that never runs out. >> that's horrible and cynical. >> flatter your writers and give them free swag that comes in the office. free cupcakes, free movie tickets. apparently that works. >> it's that simple? >> i think so, yeah. >> governor ed, we've been doing it wrong all these years. we've been passing around walking around money. >> joe, i have these pens. some from the desk of governor rendell that are hugely popular, hugely popular. >> how do you prepare for office armageddon? >> this is great. we interviewed the head of the doom's day preppers. i know you watch that on tv.

>> absolutely. >> what happens if armageddon strikes and you're at the office. it turns out they have a pretty well thought out plan. the first thing is your probably going to walk home so you ought to have a comfortable pair of shoes. you need a camelback and you also need a portable solar panel. i guess power your laptop. everybody still works after armageddon. but he gave us the full survival pack of how to survive armageddon at the office. >> how do you reinvent a brand? >> well, we looked at coach. we spoke to them and it's kind of getting back to basics, understanding what people like about your brand, how to expand that. there were other great ones. how to eat crow. we actually had a head chef -- let's say you lose a bet and you have to eat crow. how would you do that? it turns out you get a nice roux, put the crow in there, ladle the crow gumbo over rice. >> what are some of your other favorites? >> let's see. >> i see one mika would not

like. how to live on snacks. >> yeah. it's a ceo of a vending machine company that basically says you start early, eat healthy and keep going throughout the day. the ones i like were the four-minute workout. basically intensity is the key. some of the other ones -- >> here's a good one. this relates to you and other people that work at bloomberg. how to talk to a dictator. i'm just joking, mr. mayor, i'm just joking. no, no, how do you talk to a dictator? >> humor. we interviewed bill richardson who's got as long a track record of talking to dictators. he says -- and he gives some of his dictator jokes. he says when you get in there, you loosen the guy up by saying, so, is the guy i'm here to rescue, does he still have his fingernails? apparently that breaks the ice. >> they love that one. >> yeah, over in the third world country. so i interviewed newt gingrich. my favorite was how to negotiate with a democratic president, because people forget this, but newt and bill clinton was the last republican house

speaker/democratic president combo to negotiate a balanced budget back in 1996-1997. i don't know if we have the quote but he wasn't too high on obama's negotiating skills. he said clinton was a legislator. he had been governor, he'd had to negotiate. obama, gingrich said, was a college professor. what he does in negotiations is he lectures to you and then he grades you on your ability to understand his lecture, which is a pretty harsh indictment. but it's not an unthinkable one. gingrich also thought there's no way the democrats and republicans will reach a balanced budget deal, for what that's worth. he said it was impossible. >> high like this one, how to exercise in four minutes. that's a little longer than i'm comfortable exercising, but how do you do it in four minutes? >> short, intense bursts. the key is intensity. you've got to raectchet it up f like 20 seconds and stop. that gets your heart rate up. it comes down, you get your

metabolism up. >> another important thing on health, how to sleep better. >> yes. >> how do you sleep better? >> we should have interviewed you about that but we interviewed the co-founder of flickr who has a remarkable strategy for getting by on basically no sleep. she goes to bed at 9:00, 10:00. sleeps for a couple hours. then gets up in the middle of the night and works for a couple hours and then goes back to sleechlt gets up with her toddler around 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning. >> one of the things that i actually found comforting because if i fall asleep at 10:00, i wake up at 1:00. it used to be when i woke up after two or three hours of sleep, i would panic and say oh, my gosh, i've got to go back to sleep because i'm going to be dead tomorrow, i've got a 14-hour day. of course when you panic about going back to sleep, you don't go back to sleep. i read an article a couple of years ago about how our sleep patterns naturally, and back in colonial times, people would fall asleep at 9:00, they would

wake up at 12:00 or 1:00. they would work for a couple of hours or do whatever they did for a couple of hours and then fall back asleep. that we are cut out to actually not sleep straight through the night but to have these two different -- and the second -- i embraced that and said i'm going to get up at 1:00, work for 30 or 45 minutes and then go back to sleep for two or three more hours. that makes a big difference. >> ben gets up in the middle of the night, tweets out 5,000 things and goes back to sleep. >> also great to send out e-mails to people who work for you. >> very impressive. >> that really gets them going. >> i've actually found that it breeds resentment because when i'm up at 1:00 or 1:30 -- i'm fortunate because i've got a lot of people in my office that -- not fortunate for them, but, you know, to prepare for the show they work through the night. so i'm really lucky. i wake up at 1:00, i can pick up the phone and say what's going on. >> the one that i love speaking for me personally was nigel

travis, the ceo of dunkin brands. this is a guy surrounded all day long by doughnuts. he has 16% body fat. he explains how you can still eat -- he was actually eating a doughnut when we interviewed him. he's got 16% body fat. on how you can juggle that. he said three hours working out a week, doesn't matter if it's broken up 10 minutes here, an hour there, get your three hours a week. that's enough to stay lean and eat doughnuts. >> josh, you're an investigative reporter. do you buy that this guy eats dunkin donuts? >> here's what you're doing wrong, ed. you eed the doughnuts but then you've got to work out. >> i work out like a feind. >> we tested the body fat and watched him eat a glazed doughnut. >> let's end on a serious one, and i think this is critical over the next decade.

this is how we really bring manufacturing back. we make our country more productive, make goods cheaper. convert the country to natural gas. we've got a revolution going on. it's cheaper, obviously. it's cleaner. >> better environmentally. >> better environmentally and we're going to have all of this natural gas and you're going to have companies that are going to be able to access it. >> boone pickens, who as we all know began essentially a crusade a couple of years ago to try to take advantage of this natural gas boon, convert trucks to natural gas. >> he's talking about 18-wheelers too. >> but the real market is midsize and eventually passenger cars. >> it is like the originally crusades, the kind that makes you fabulously wealthy. >> that's right. >> the depressing part about his

crusade is iran has gotten it, china is getting it. they are all building these vehicles that run on natural gas. the u.s. hasn't. and pickens see the impediment -- i can't say the word on television but those people in washington and congress who don't understand what a fortune the country is sitting on. >> boone is exactly right here. he's exactly right. if we converted -- and he does say 18-wheelers, but vans as well to natural gas, the revolution would be on. >> what it would do for us economically. i wrote an op-ed piece two weeks ago about the natural gas and why we should do it. i was attacked like you thought i had written they overthrow the united states government. >> who attacked you. >> the environmentalists. >> really? >> and it's crazy. >> it's cleaner. >> it's cleaner than -- >> 30% cleaner. >> the problem, joe, when fracking started in pennsylvania, there was some well construction that was terrible. it was too fast, it was a rush. the wells exploded, groundwater

was polluted. we put in regulations. we haven't had one incident since. >> it's cleaner, it creates jobs and stops us from going to the middle east and wars. >> and there are farmers who thought they would die poor who now are going to have something to give to their kids. >> and it also spreads. energy, you know, with oil companies you've got these monopolies, people drill, they make all the money themselves. natural gas, you've got a great opportunity to spread the wealth not only -- not only to different individuals but different communities. there could be a rebirth of small towns that thought they were going to die. >> williamsport, pennsylvania. >> williamsport. i love williamsport. i spent a lot of time there until they kicked me out. it's the third annual "how to" issue of "bloomberg business week." they never kicked me out, mom, i promise. coming up next, rocker, actor, and now broadway's own stevie van zandt joins "morning

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♪ >> that was a scene from the new

broadway show "the rascals." it opens tonight at new york's richard rogers theater. with us now director, producer, writer of the broadway show, i expect him to win a nobel prize for economics soon, guitarist for the e-street band, steven van zandt. steven is the mastermind behind the reunion of the rascals. were they your favorites? >> yeah. first rock 'n' roll band i ever saw. >> really? >> yeah. they were unbelievably exciting. >> where did you see them? >> the keyport rollerdrome. that is where rock 'n' roll bands played in those days. it was very exciting. >> what year was that. >> '65, '66. >> is that when you decided to pick up a guitar and start playing? >> a year or two earlier when i grandfather had taught me some songs from his village and then the beatles hit "ed sullivan" february 9th, 1964, the whole

world changed. >> that launches aid generation of troublemakers. that one show you can trace back about 80% of america's ills to that night. >> and then the rolling stones played the palace. >> that's when things turned really bad. exactly. so it's on my notes here, tom morello who is a great guitarist for rage actually filled in for you on some gigs when you were doing this. >> you two have a lot in common politically. >> yeah, he and i don't share the same politics but every time i talk to him he's a real nice guy. >> a great guy. i was very happy, he was a good friend of ours. i was happy he went down and helped out while i was finishing my tv show. >> which is just doing great. >> yeah, yeah, over two million hits here. it's in 130 countries. for norway, they have never sold anything. >> you are the number one export for norway now. >> for real. >> so let's talk about the jump

to broadway. obviously big tv star, great rock 'n' roll legend. was it hard making the jump to broadway? >> well, it didn't start out quite that ambitious. i just thought a reunion after 40 years of no one seeing them live, because they broke up in 1970. they were so important and they were so great. you know, i inducted them into the rock 'n' roll hall of fame, which was great. but for the most part people remember the songs but not the band. so i thought a reunion is not enough, i want to tell their story also. so i invented this new forum where we filmed them narrating their story on a gigantic screen. >> how was that, man. how cool is that. >> and we had actors playing them in younger days and we integrate that into an actual concert. so it's four guys doing an original concert, it's the real thing. >> that is so cool. it looks like it's pretty darn

ground-breaking. let me ask you, of course they did "how can i be sure,"" it's a beautiful morning," groovin'." >> they had three number one records, which is unusual. and about ten top 20 hits. there's a lot you recognize. but also half the show is songs you don't recognize which i did intentionally to show that -- and they are seriously deep musically. people remember them as a pop band but they should be talked about in the same paragraph as the beatles and stones and the birds and the best of the best. >> yeah. guys, questions? ed, you going? you need to go to this. >> come on. >> well, it sounds fascinating to use the film and the live. >> yeah, yeah. they'll do a couple songs and the stage goes dark and this huge, huge screen lights up. >> and there clearly is a market for this.

the billy joel show, the frankie valley show. >> it's like jersey boys only with the four seasons actually in it because these are actually the real guys in the show. it could morph some day into a sm show with actors like jersey boys. >> but also visually, it's pretty remarkable. >> my partner and co-director, co-producer, mark brickman is the world's foremost staging and lighting guy in the world. pink floyd, all that crazy pink floyd stuff, paul mccartney. he was bruce's original guy way back. we've been very -- best friends ever since. you know, we just kind of thought this thing up and worked on it the last three years. >> i think there's such a powerful market for nostalgia of a certain kind. who's next? do you have other bands you're going to pull back together? >> that's a good question because i honestly think this is the next evolution of where concerts are going to go, i really do. especially for the older artists. how many concerts can you do, you know. the bruce springsteens and mick

jaggers of the world are the exceptions to the rule. most people just stand there and play their songs, which is fine. this adds a whole other depth of entertainment to experience, and i think a lot of bands could be doing this in the future. >> you know, you said something really fascinating about the beatles versus the rascals as an artist. you say the beatles were just too damn good. they weren't accessible as an artist, the rascals were. it's so funny you said that because i grew up and i listened to the beatles, that's all i listened to. a songwriter by the time i was 13 or 14. it took me until i was 45 to realize that that had actually screwed me up. my son had given me a quote from an alternative artist that said to be an artist, you've got to kill your heroes. you can't sit there trying to be the beatles or springsteen or somebody else. and it goes along that way. as an artist, you look at the rascals and you're like, i can do that. >> yeah. what's important, though, is that bands go through that stage of development where they do have heroes and they do the

cover songs, you know. >> right. >> a lot of bands are skipping that these days. they learn how to play and then they're writers all of a sudden. you have to establish standards and how do you do that? well, by doing your hero's songs first. you have to analyze them, pull them apart, understand them, play them yourself and absorb them. then you do evolve from that. but it's important to start that way. >> even the beatles. the beatles weren't the beatles. they went to hamburg, played 10,000 hours. when they came back, they were the beatles. >> these are the greatest song writers in the world. they had cover songs on their albums for five albums. they were still doing covers. stones also. >> doing great covers. >> that's what separates the great ones. >> still, the early stuff it's hard to beat "kansas city." >> and "please mr. postman," all those great covers. >> "you've really got ahold of me." >> the originals are great in their own right but these guys doing interpretation of them

poingtd towards them becoming great. >> you know what's great is the kids today know music from the rascal because of the technology. i went to a beach boys concert about eight years ago. there were kids in their teens who knew every word of their songs. >> i consider that period the renaissance and i really think it is. i think people will be studying it for hundreds of years. the rascals were that one jersey thing that we could relate to when the whole british invasion was taking over. >> speaking of jersey, we're going to be at a place you know pretty darn well, asbury park on april the 19th -- i'm sorry, april 29th, we're going to be remembering the six-month anniversary of sandy. a stone's throw from the stone pony. >> we've done shows there. >> jersey is coming along, but too slowly. >> well, yeah. the whole process has been really slow. the whole rebuilding thing.

it's a constant thing we should be improving and we just never seem to get that right, that whole, you know, fema thing. it just doesn't ever seem to quite let's be ready for this and come in quick with the help. never fast enough. >> it's never quick enough, katrina to sandy. all right, steven, thank you so much for being here. >> i'll see you at the richard rogers. >> i will be there. >> it's only 15 shows. >> are you serious? >> that's it. >> i'm definitely going to be there. it's onceuponadream.com where to go if you want information at the richards rogers theater for a limited time only. coming up next, business before the bell. more trouble for boeing. first the dreamliner gets landed over battery issues and now 737s under scrutiny. i think i'm going to take a train. details are next in business before the bell. ♪

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welcome to business before the bell. now brian sullivan. brian, gold has been a safe haven for a long time. we've heard this from glenn beck and a variety of other talk radio hosts. but right now it seems to be plummeting. why? >> there's not one reason, joe. good morning and happy monday. a great song by the same name. listen, you've got european concerns. some talks that banks in cyprus are selling gold. japan is big holders of gold and i don't think there's one reason for gold's collapse but there's no way to call it anything but that because we've lost $200 an ounce in the matter of a few trading days. one of the biggest declines in gold on a percentage basis in history. also you referenced the faa story. we don't want to spook anybody, it's not all 737s but the faa ordering plane carriers to inspect over a thousand 737

models. had to do with potentially a bad coating on a pin on a tail section. any time there's anything to do with wings on a plane you've got my attention. it's just a sealant issue, but still it's out there. more than a thousand ordered to be inspected because of this pin. so gold and planes and trains and automobiles. >> that's rough stuff, man. a lot of 737s out there. >> oh, yeah, most common plane in the world. great interview, by the way. any time you talk about music, that was fantastic. love the dialogue with steven. >> thanks, appreciate it. and the play looks really good. it looks like what they're doing with the rascals looks very interesting. they'll be doing that with led zeppelin ten years from now. >> peace out. >> all right, brian, thank you so much. appreciate it. we've got a big show coming up tomorrow. i've got senator john mccain, senator chuck schumer, cheryl hines and lauren bush. lauren, lauren, lauren.

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