>> newt gingrich, best way to deal with a president is to impeach him first. >> it sort of softens him up, gets you something to talk about. what did you learn, ben? >> it seems like every successful person in the world sleeps less than i do. which i found a little worrying. >> and you're like the 40 under 40 whatever. you're changing the world, you're crackling. i would sleep through the night if i were you. it doesn't do well for your health. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around now, we've got chuck todd with "the daily rundown." we'll see you tomorrow. the lucky sunday seven, marco rubio, is the only show in town as washington waits for the gang of eight's immigration effort. today a deep dive inside republican meetings that could seal the deal. the other big debate in town is over guns. the president's push has the senate in motion. we'll talk to one leading democrat who wants to make mental health issues a bigger part of the plan. also this morning, as kim

jong-un keeps the world wondering about north korea's nuclear threats, secretary of state john kerry talks to nbc news about the possibility of sitting down with the country's leaders to calm things down. good morning from washington. it's tax day. monday, april 15th, 2013. this is "the daily rundown." i'm chuck todd. let's get right to my first reads of the morning. tomorrow the gang of eight will unveil an immigration reform bill that's been months in the making after weeks of taking a cautious tone. marco rubio and on a record-setting seven sunday talk shows to sell the portion of the bill that will be the toughest for conservatives to swallow, a pathway to citizenship for the roughly 11 million people in this country that are undocumented. >> amnesty is the forgiveness of something. in fact there will be consequences for having violated the law. this is not amnesty. amnesty is the forgiveness of something. amnesty is anything that says do

it illegally, it will be cheaper and easier. i would argue that the existing law is more lien yengt. that going back and waiting ten years is going to be cheaper and faster than going through this process that we are outlining. >> that's the proclamation rubio is making, that it will be easier to leave the country than stay here and go through the process. we'll see if conservatives believe him. tonight the four republican members of the gang of eight will brief their colleagues on the bill. democratic senators are expected to do the same with their conference. early tuesday outreach is planned to conservative interest groups to explain what's in the package and how republicans intend to sell it. on wednesday, the judiciary committee will begin its first immigration hearings with testimony from homeland security secretary janet napolitano. that will be a lot about border security. rubio knows what his job is. he's not just trying to get an immigration bill passed in the senate, that's easy to get donish. he needs to get it passed with more than 70 votes because that gives house speaker john boehner

cover to bring up a bill in the house that doesn't need a majority of the majority. this is what rubio needs to do to win over at least some conservatives. >> i'm not convinced. i know senator rubio's heart is exactly right, and i really respect the work of the gang of eight, but they have proud legisla -- produced legislation that will give amnesty now, legalize everyone here. >> i think we undertake this in a step-by-step fashion. we're best served if we start with border security, the enter/exit system. we can get those things passed. there's broad-based bipartisan consensus with those things. >> you saw two different conservative critiques of the bill. sessions going right at the talking point trying to claim amnesty. mike lee trying to be a little more nuanced about it. conservatives against the immigration bill are teeing up a handful of arguments to oppose

it. rubio promised colleagues they'd have three or four weeks to read the bill before the first markup and he kourncountered the argumn cost that's being pushed by groups like the heritage foundation. >> all i'm asking for is for for this plan to be reviewed through the same standard. the same scoring that we apply to tax cuts. this will be a net positive for the country economically now and in the future. otherwise, it's not worth doing. >> dynamic scoring based on potential economic growth. final argument to conservatives will be this one when byron york previews today. passion immigration reform or expect the president to do it by executive order without any of the strict enforcement measures that are in the senate bill. quote, from the piece. in other words, after all the provisions and requirements and triggers, the ultimate gang of four argument of the conservatives, two conservatives and republicans will be this, pass our bill or face utter disaster. meaning the president will do

this all on his own. an interesting argument there. by the way, rubio's partners and opponents are all too aware of the elephant in the room literally, the senator's presidential ambitions. south carolina senator lindsey graham was quoted saying, quote, there was concern that somebody who's got presidential ambitions on our side might not want to deal with the political fallout. we had to make sure we were not going to set this guy up. but rubio denied sunday that 2016 has even entered his mind on this issue. >> you know, i haven't even thought about it in that way. >> seriously, senator? >> i haven't. you talk about the political calculus. i quite frankly have avoided making the political calculus on this issue. >> senator, you clearly are at least considering running for president in 2016. isn't this -- >> says who? says who? >> pardon? >> okay. well, it's too soon to know whether immigration will actually be a big player in a republican primary by the time 2016 rolls along, even by then

will the issue be in the rear-view mirror. that doesn't mean rubio isn't sensitive to the 2016 implications of what he's doing, though he claims he's not thinking about it. his answers seem carefully constructed to keep his credibility with conservatives, trying to make conservative arguments in defending immigration. the difference between immigration and guns. while rubio's job is to make sure an overwhelming senate vote on immigration makes boehner comfortable to act, on guns it's clear there will not be that kind of support and it means the house perhaps can comfortably not act, become the pocket veto for conservatives for anything the senate is able to accomplish. that said, this afternoon senators joe manchin and pat toomey will send hours on the senate floor making themselves available for colleagues to ask questions about their amendment. >> pat and i will start on the floor tomorrow around 2:00, 2:30 and we'll talk about the bill and go through it line by line, section by section. every misnomer out there, every falsehood that we can talk about. >> maine senator susan collins

became the latest republican to publicly support the background check compromise, describing the bill to nbc as this, quote, a responsible break-through from two people who have far better nra rankings than i have. collins is up for re-election and under attack from gun rights groups. on sunday senator john mccain all but endorsed manchin-toomey. >> i'm very favorably disposed towards that. 80% of the american people wanting to see a better background checks procedure. >> but according to an early whip count that our own casey hunt is putting together, right now we have 53 senators in support of manchin-toomey, 36 opposing and 11 unknowns. as it stands right now, the maximum support for this amendment that it could get is 64 votes. the senate is expected to vote on whether to proceed to debate on the compromise as early as tuesday. our estimation is that it is probably going to get over 60 but sitting right around 60 or 61. now, senator chuck grassley is working on the nra with an

alternative gun bill republicans could try to offer as one amendment or series of amendments later in the process. it would include provisions to address gun trafficking, mental health, school safety and include some improvements in the current background system but it wouldn't expand background checks. then there are potential poison pill amendments. you know what those are. the amendments offered up to try to kill the bill overall, including a measure gun rights advocates have pushed for, which would require states to recognize concealed carry permits issued in other states. senator marco rubio actually previewed that idea on sunday. >> are we going to honor conceal carry permits from across state lines? because as someone who has a conceal carry permit has been background checked. that's why they have one. are we going to honor those at a gun show and other parts of the country? i think that should be part of the bill. >> could that end up killing manchin-toomey? we'll see. even if they get the 60 votes to pass and no poison pill

amendments are able to kill the final bill, like that conceal carry idea, gun reform advocates have a major obstacle called the house of representatives. "saturday night live" had a little fun with that issue over the weekend. >> we are confident that this bill will pass the senate and it will then go to the house of representatives where it will immediately get shot down. >> that's right. and that is not a metaphor. no, they will literally throw the bill up in the air and shoot it with a gun. >> former congresswoman gabrielle giffords will be on the hill to press her colleagues to vote for the back ground compromise on tuesday. if it passes in the senate, gun control advocates will try to exert pressure on the house. >> gabby and i are going to be workingin incredibly hard to get them to read the bill and to get them to pass this legislation and to sign it into law. >> as we've seen in the past with the fiscal cliff deal, hurricane sandy relief, house speaker boehner has only been

willing to bring legislation that is only supported by the majority of the majority. right now manchin-toomey is nowhere close to that number. if the bill dies in the house, gun control advocates will have to figure out how to turn the gun issue, which historically has been the achilles heel for democrats, into a 2014 advantage. with that in mind, keep an eye on a couple of states, particularly here's washington state. a gun control advocacy group is preparing to announce a 2014 ballot initiative campaign centered on expanded background checks. it would be washington state's first gun-related measure since a high profile failure 15 years ago. you can see where this is going. you can see that is a new path. if washington doesn't go, that states that allow referendums to do this and it will be where the bloombergs and mark kellys of the world end up potentially going. watching the pictures coming out of north korea today you'd

have no idea the country is at the center of a nuclear standoff. crowds of north koreans were out in the streets celebrating the 101st birthday of the country's founder. leaders in pyongyang rejected peace talks with the south over the weekend and still stand ready to test fire a missile. secretary of state john kerry has been traveling through asia and said the door is open for direct talks if the north is willing to stand down. >> i think there's been so much rhetoric and so much intensity to the missiles and to the confrontation that sometimes the message gets lost. so i think it never hurts to reinforce that a nation is prepared under the right circumstances when conditions are met to have an appropriate negotiation. >> nbc's chief foreign correspondent, richard engel, is in seoul jiends and joins us li. richard, april 15th is almost over. this was a date a lot of folks

were watching to see would this be the date that kim jong-un would try to do this. >> nothing happened. >> after today could we be in the clear? >> the news might be today what didn't happen. there were festivities in pyongyang, but they were generally not hostile, not belligerent. there were people dancing, laying flowers at the memorial of kim il-sung but not giant military parades showing off weapons, no belicose speeches threatening to destroy the world. north korea hasn't been issuing for the last two days or so the same kind of strident threats that we heard over the last couple of weeks. still a harsh tone but nothing like we were hearing even just a few days ago. and of course those test firings didn't happen. could they happen still going forward in the next few days? perhaps. but today was a day that had been wildly -- that had been widely estimated to be the day

that if north korea was going to do it, it would probably do it today. maybe it will happen tomorrow. but there is a sense that the discourse is shifting a little bit. at least there is talk now of dialogue. secretary kerry saying that the door is open for talks with the united states under conditions, but north korea saying that it rejects talks with south korea but at least they are talking about dialogue instead of taking the very aggressive steps we saw last week, reopening nuclear reactors, closing economic zones, threatening to send nuclear warheads to austin, texas. they haven't threatened austin in at least for a few days. >> have the south koreans been satisfied with john kerry's visit and with what he's saying? is this what they wanted him to say, which is open the door publicly for direct talks with the north as a way of seeing if that would be enough to cool the

rhetoric? >> reporter: south korea's position is somewhat conflicted. there's two ways to deal with north korea. one is military containment. the other is dialogue. i think people in this country would like to see a combination of both. and that's what the u.s. is putting forward right now. an idea that there will be military hardware in the region that could contain a north korean missile launch or an aggressive action, but an olive branch as well offering a way out of this crisis. also more talk about china. at the end of the day if anyone has pressure and has levers to pull over north korea, it is china. and china made some relatively clear statements toward north korea that it wanted to see this situation resolved peacefully. if north korea knows where it gets its food, it knows where it gets its fuel, and that is from china. >> the most important economic trading partner that they have. all right, richard engel, thank you, sir.

much more to come here on this tax day edition of "the daily rundown." we have a schedule for you. amid all the bitter back and forth over gun legislation, one thing it seems everyone can agree on, mental health issues should be a part of any plan. senator debbie stabinow will be here to talk about what he's proposing. first, a look ahead at today's politics planner. oh, boy, they're coming again. the crimson tide to the white house. here's hoping this is the last visit by alabama for at least a couple of years. good grief. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. i think nick saban has an office in the west wing. we'll be right back. into brand-new apartments... before rooftops were transformed into electrical generators... before an abandoned lot in brooklyn could become a vibrant neighborhood... and before hannah seliem could close her very first door to her very first bedroom...

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the debate over gun laws is focused mostly on expanded background checks for gun buyers. some senators have been working on mental health lemting that would help provide access to care for millions of people. with me is one of the senators leading that push, senator debbie stabinow. thanks for coming in. the unmistakable link, the sixth anniversary of virginia tech. that shooter, aurora, tucson and newtown is mental health problems for young men. >> right. >> what is it specifically this bill is going to attempt to address? >> this bill addresses comprehensive mental health care in the community, because that's where we need to see it happen. we walk a fine line. on the one hand, chuck, most individuals who have mental health problems -- and by the way, it's imminently treatable, fixable, there's a lot of hope. most of them would be a victim of crime, not a perpetrator.

however, we do know that particularly with studies with young people, somebody has a psychotic break, doesn't get help, they're 15 times more likely to commit a violent act. so we've got to get them at the front end and let them know that there's help. you know, for someone with a food disorder, it's a chemical imbalance in the brain. no different than if you have diabetes and you're monitoring your sugar. you can get help with medication for a chemical imbalance we now call bipolar. >> how is this going to work? >> what this does -- what we have right now are a network of what we call federally qualified health centers. they're there for people that don't have insurance. you can go in and they will treat people and then they are able to bill medicaid for services. they can't do that for mental health and substance abuse. what we're doing is the last bit of mental health parity. saying whether it's a health clinic, substance abuse, they can bill.

>> to try to get federal funding, that it's treated the way any other issue. >> any other thing is. right now under health reform, mental health parity laws, insurance scent discriminate anymore. but in the community, the funding levels are such that we are discriminating against pe peop people. >> so this bill is trying to address that. >> yes. >> so what the issue if a teacher or parent needs help and has to go to the school to intervene, what about the school? >> well, there's a couple of steps. first of all, under health reform we substantially increase money to what's called school-based health clinics which are very important and 75% of them have a mental health component. there's legislation that's come out of the health committee that would strengthen that link as well. so you need the hospital. you need the school. you need law enforcement to know when to intervene so that people can ask for help. but if services in the end

aren't there and if the school aren't refer them somewhere, which is what happens right now. >> that's what you want this clinic to be about? >> bottom line is making sure services are there. there's another really important piece and we did a press conference last week that was very powerful with veterans, the iraq and afghanistan veterans are strongly supporting this, 22 veterans commit suicide every day. people who had put their lives on the line and come home because of deep depression commit suicide. we have people all over the united states, all over michigan, northern michigan, who have to drive three or four hours to get any kind of help. >> now, we just flashed a screen of some of your co-sponsors. it's an ideological mix from barbara boxer on the left to marco rubio on the right, patrick leahy, susan collins. how procedurally is this going to work? is this an amendment to the overall gun bill? >> it is. one of my concerns right now is while everybody else is debating

all of the controversial amendments, we don't know if the assault weapon ban will be filibustered, that every amendment is filibustered. i worry about getting lost in that because this is something that is real, can help solve problems and it has bipartisan support. >> you believe you'll have 60 plus votes for this. >> i do. i believe if we can get it to a vote we'll have 60 plus votes. >> how is this paid for? >> we use an offset. i'm on the finance committee. >> what is the offset? is it a tax? >> no, it extends a part of health reform that relates to hospitals as we transition to health reform, less cost -- >> is this covered in your health care plan? >> it's extends something we've voted on several times. the cbo says it will cost $10 million. >> speaking of budget issues,

the president came out, i want to ask you about this, the president came out with this idea of changing the way social security cost of living adjustments are made. where do you stand -- is this something you could support if it were part of a larger compromise? >> first of all, i don't like putting that on the table. i would much rather see other things. i'm not going to take anything off the table until we see what happens in terms of a grand compromise. >> you think the president made a mistake putting it on the table? >> i would prefer he had not. i don't think this is where you start. i think there's other areas that we ought to be starting on and why we don't take the cap off of wages or put a cola on it or do something that adjusts it for the times to me is much more fair. but when we look at really not just deficit reduction, this is really the final step. we've already done $2.5 trillion. the question is now that last $1.5 trillion. i want to make sure that it doesn't hid seniors and middle

class families. >> you're about to become the senior senator from michigan. are democrats going to hold that seat? >> absolutely. >> who's the leading candidate? >> we have two great folks who said they're interested. congressman gary peters and debbie dengel. >> you'd be comfortable with either one? >> either one. >> senator debbie stabenow thanks for coming in. a reminder, we have an nbc news exclusive coming up tomorrow on "today." my friend savannah guthrie will interview the president. they'll discuss guns, immigration, north korea. it's a lot that the president hasn't talked about lately. it will all be there, tomorrow on "today." we'll have some highlights from it after today. up next, the tea party favorite heats up the senate race in alaska. plus remembering congressman charlie wilson. the late ohio lawmaker served only two terms in washington but he made history in how he got there. we'll tell you how. that brings us to today's trivia question.

in 2006 charlie wilson was elected to congress by a write-in campaign. how many people managed that feat before him? we're just talking about the house here. the first person to tweet the correct answer gets the on-air shoutout. the answer and more coming up on "the daily rundown." good luck googling this one. my mantra? trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair

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and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. on our radar this morning, a series of attacks in iraq has killed dozens of people and things are heating up in the alaska senate race. first, the hand-picked successor of hugo chavez is claiming victory in a surprisingly close presidential election. election officials say nicholas madero has won with just over a hair over 50% declaring victory on national television. he said the election results show hugo chavez continues to be

invincible. the other candidate has refused to recognize the election results and has demanded a full recount. a series of car bombings in iraq has killed more than 25 people and wounded 170 others. two dozen attacks took place across the country in mostly shiite areas. the violence comes just five days before provincial elections scheduled to take place. according to reuters, a dozen candidates have already been killed, including two moderate sunni politicians this weekend. alaska democratic senator is facing another potential challenger in 2014. republican joe miller announced over the weekend, that's right, that joe miller, he is launching an exploratory committee about the possibility of making another bid for the u.s. senate. miller first ran in 2010, scored a shocking win in a primary over the incumbent republican senator lisa murkowski. the tea party favorite later lost to murkowski in the general election when she decided run as a write-in candidate.

there is another candidate who already said he plans to seek the republican nomination. and finally, former ohio democratic congressman charlie wilson died sunday following complications from a stroke. first elected as a write-in candidate in a primary in 2006. he served just four years before losing in the 2010 midterm. wilson had a diverse resume. before his time in washington, he became a mortician and also ran a furniture business. charlie wilson was 70 years old. well, it's tax day, that makes it always a unique day to check in on that opening bell and see who's writing checks to their iras. we're kicking off a huge week of corporate earnings. they'll be reporting first quarter earnings this week. citi group started things off but apparently lots of chatter about a gold bubble. we'll be following that as well. up next, going behind the scenes on the immigration negotiations with a man who's been on the inside as this deal

gets hammered out. we're taking a deep dive into what is really going on in order to get this bill through both houses of congress. and don't forget to check out our website, rundown.msnbc.com. more importantly it will be a home for political updates all day long. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. ♪ [ jen garner ] what skincare brand is so effective... so trusted... so clinically proven dermatologists recommend it twice as much as any other brand? neutrogena®. recommended by dermatologists 2 times more

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>> we have ian illegal immigration system that does not. it does not reflect the economic needs of this country in the 21st century. it needs to be modernize and our agreement will do that. it will modernize the system in a way that is more merit based, jobs based and less based on whether you know someone that already lives here. >> he said reform is politically beneficial for republicans and insists the plan will be tough on people that are here who are undocumented. there's also the economic argument. on that front republican reform advocates believe they can appeal to conservatives and the latino voters at the same time by pushing for an expanded guest worker program. republicans say they're using conservative, free market principles to help foreign workers and american businesses at the same time. senator rand paul actually made that case in a speech last month. >> this is where prudence, compassion and thrift all point towards the same goal. bringing these workers out of the shadows and into becoming and being tax-paying members of

society. >> of course the senate is just one piece of the puzzle. rubio's bid to get the senate bto buy in -- can he give political cover to conservatives so speaker boehner can use a mix to pass it coming through the house. some conservatives say it can do more harm than good when it comes to the economy and american families. >> we want people to be empowered by freedom, by god-given liberty, not dependent upon some political party that's going to hand out the large of government at the expense of other people. >> we have 22 million people who are out of work and we continue to take away from them and give benefits and jobs to people who have come here illegally, who are not part of our family. we can expect even more and more and more people to come here until it is a disaster.

>> well, joining me now, the executive director for the latino partnership for conservative principles and was a chief of the office of citizenship under george w. bush. he's been in the room with many of these republican lawmakers working on this issue. you were shaking your head as you heard him go off there. explain why. >> i think the great thing is that steve king this time around are not as influential as they were seven years ago. i think this is a different environment. i think it's better. we're in a better position than we were seven years ago. but it's still tough. i give it a 50-50 chance of passing. it's still a mine field and there are some mines that we have to carefully maneuver. >> i am much more optimistic than you are. why are you a little pessimistic? do you feel there is a lot more people that agree among conservative republicans that agree with steve king? >> well, there's still that group. restrictionist groups are still putting pressure on republican

members in the house and senate to oppose anything. we're going to see this week or next week a report coming out from the researcher, robert rector questioning the cost of localizing undocumented immigrants. he did a report like that in 2007 which went a long way towards killing immigration reform in 2007. i think this time around we're prepared to respond to that type of research which only looks at cost, exaggerates the cost. >> we heard marco rubio, he used a very washington term, dynamic scoring. i want to explain that means it's sort of trying to economic what economic benefits will be and have that included in some of the budget costs, which is a hard thing to explain. >> well, yeah, but that's being a conservative approach. even heritage has always advocated for dynamic scoring. not only looking at the immediate costs -- >> this is a way they want to make an argument that tax cuts,

somehow, create more money. >> exactly. so you have to look at the costs but also look in the case of immigrant legalization the economic and tax benefits of legalizing undocumented immigrants. and i think heritage has to be very careful. i mean in the past there are other studies that they have done that show that immigration would have -- would produce a boom for the economy. so i think the problem they're having with the research from this particular individual, in the past the research being very shoddy, not very fair and objective. >> marco rubio made this claim on "meet the press" and i'm sure on a couple of others shows as well. this is the one i heard. he said that he thought it would be -- that somebody who's here that's undocumented. if they wanted to pursue citizenship, they would look at this law and say it's easier for me to go to my own country. do you believe that? do you think conservative republicans will believe that?

i'm a skaerv and also an immigration lawyer. i can tell you what he said that it would be cheaper, faster and easier for an undocumented immigrant to go back home -- >> that's what you're going to tell a client, somebody coming to you. >> it depends what they want. if they want an ease a path to citizenship, it would be better for them to return to their home country. >> but they don't want to leave because they have established a family. >> exactly. but it's going to be a longer process, a difficult process and an expensive process as well. it may take them at least 13 years to get to citizenship. in some cases 15 or 20 years. >> is that too long? >> well, i think it's very long. but i think it makes a point that they have entered the country illegally. we're not closing the door to citizenship. we want them to eventually become full members of our political community. >> they want to be citizens. don't forget not everybody necessarily wants to be a citizen. that's a little bit of a mythology out there, isn't it? >> we keep talking about the path to citizenship. i don't think at the end that's going to be the main sticking point.

>> what do you believe could derail it? >> the problem is that only the right and the left are democrats willing to accept a larger guest worker program because the one proposed by the gang of eight, it's small. >> you think it's a little too narrow? >> exactly. so those republican that say respond to labor, will they be willing to negotiate and give up, be able to support a guest worker program that's bigger? >> we'll be following this. this is going to be potholes along the way, no doubt. >> absolutely. >> the question is, are they so deep that suddenly the train that is immigration reform gets derailed. mixing my metaphors. always a pleasure to have you on, especially in this role playing expert for us. appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, some developing news out of the supreme court this morning on the issue of guns. we'll have it right after the break at the start of the gaggle. an old friend is back. first, the white house soup of the day. apparently if it's tax day they're eating turkey chili. we'll see. we'll be right back. algae bece a revolutionary fuel source...

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there's only one daily flashback to pick on a day like this. 1947, jackie robinson stepped onto the field in brooklyn and into the history books. he broke baseball's color barrier becoming the first black player in the american leagues. his number 42 has been retired by every team in the league and it was done so on this day back in 1997. there's just one man remaining who wears it and this will be the last year he wears it, marianoo rivera. the supreme court is declining to take up one of the hottest questions in the gun debate. is there a constitutional right to carry a gun outside of the home beyond -- for any little reason other than personal protection. we'll see. so they are not taking up that, but that actually is part of a conversation that started in the gun debate with manchin-toomey. it's time for the monday gaggle. perry bacon jr., susan page and

dan balls is back. you look good. >> thank you. >> did you well. >> you know, everybody should try it once. >> absolutely. well, dan, let me start with you. when you left did you think that you'd be coming back and in the same week we'd have immigration and guns being the primary two topics and the budget is off to the side. watching this gun debate unfold, where does this head? >> in the senate we're going to have a very interesting moment, which is we've had this effort to try to reach some kind of a compromise and now it -- you know, the rubber hits the road, as the cliche goes. we'll see this week whether there really is support for some of these compromises. this bill, as everybody knows, is up and down and up and down. late last week there was optimism because of the manchin-toomey compromise. we'll see this week whether they can actually get over the finish line with it. >> susan, not to be a total -- pour cold water on this for gun control advocates, so they might

get 60, 61 votes and get manchin-toomey passed, this has no kmachance in the house. >> where's the finish line, the senate finish line? you know, maybe. >> none of us would have thought that three months ago. >> and i think at this point we would be very skeptical that anything gets through the house. on the other hand this is a debate that is alive in america. the supreme court decision, actions in states, events in the world could affect this. so i think it's -- i think the advocates of gun control are taking this one step at a time with a sense that maybe you can't get the calculation how you get it to the final finish line where a law gets signed, but maybe a little early to say there is no possibility of that. >> you know, perry, mark murray and i have made the comparison to mccain-feingold. it didn't make it, didn't pass but took the marc rich scandal, coupled with enron at the time. then you saw the momentum.

it may be that this is the beginning and we probably shouldn't be judging whether gun control is dead or alive in this country this year. >> and you're seeing so many laws in maryland and new york. gun control is alive in the states susan just mentioned. also this vote, i don't think we know necessarily. there are 53 yes votes probably right now and 8 people, 9 we don't know about. but these families are making a big impact. you saw how susan collins was very wary of -- she dissed the families and didn't spend enough time with them. you can tell they're worried about that. this vote is not predictable because of these families and how they have galvanized washington. >> dan, can they have the same impact in the house? >> no, i don't think they can have the same impact on the house. the house is the true polarized chamber at this pointing. there's action in the senate to try to bring things together but in the house we don't see any of those efforts at any of the same level as we're seeing them in the senate. >> susan, i guess what i wonder is when -- you know, there is ever going to be evidence that

gun control can be a winning issue in a swing district? have we seen that evidence this year? >> maybe we'll find out in 2014. >> should that be the2014. maybe that changes the politics on this issue that were set in 1994 when it became clear to democrats that it was a dangerous thing to vote for that assault weapons ban. >> you are asking the vote for immigration too and it's hard to imagine immigration and gun control in the same period. immigration is the republican party's priority. >> we'll talk a little bit about immigration on the other side. in 2006, charlie wilson was elected to congress by a write-in campaign. how many people managed that feat before him? the answer was just four. before wilson there was charles curry, joe and ron packard did it in the '80s. we have '80s music for you.

congratulations to eric. if you have a political trivia question for us, e-mail us at dailyrundown@msnbc.com. we'll be right back. acceler-rental. at a hertz expressrent kiosk, you can rent a car without a reservation... and without a line.

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perry, marco rubio is all in. there's no exit ramp for him anymore. this idea that maybe he could kill the bill if he walked away, clearly is not going to happen. >> striking interview yesterday. at one point he said it would be better and easier for people to go back to the country they're from than to stay here. the depth of his shift and push to make sure conservatives feel comfortable with this was dramatic and aggressive and it worked from what i have seen in coverage so far since yesterday.

>> it said when he saw the steve king quote, you know, those guys aren't the face this time. that's a big change. >> it's a big change. and does he deliver? does marco rubio succeed in getting what's the number, 70 votes and more in the senate? that would be a huge boost to the campaign. he says he's not running. >> rand paul endorsed it. i'm sorry. he's one of the chief rivals now. if they're on the same page, it's even more comfort for him. >> at this point there isn't a big voice of any vote in the republican party. they seem much quieter. >> they already seem like they are for it or staying out of it. >> the house debate will be interesting on this one too. >> and the language could be not what they want. >> a friend of "the daily rundown" going over to "the

washington post." we wish her well. >> and dan has a book coming out. tell us about it. >> taking over the show, perry. order on amazon. >> order on amazon. "collision 2012." welcome back. >> our new ipad app is fabulous. everyone ought to take a look at it. >> i'll download it now. it's for my boy. happy 6th birthday, harrison. this edition of "the daily rundown," tomorrow on the show, david axelrod will be here and we'll look at the left's attempts to conquer the coke brothers. coming up next, chris jansing. bye-bye. here's a look at your business travel forecast. all eyes are on the northern rockies and the northern plains. two snowstorms one exiting today up around fargo and the next one already on its way. snow developing during the day

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