♪ wireless is limitless. breaking news right now on "the cycle." severe weather marching east. officials in oklahoma are getting their closest look yet that tornado devastation. the president is heading there next. she is facing death so why does jodi arias look to bright today? lerner facing number five in congress. officials believe they have located everyone feared missing. so far 24 people are dead, including ten children, the youngest just seven years old. 207 are injured. dozens still getting help at local area hospitals. as we expected this tornado has now officially been upgraded to

ef-5 status. that is of course, the strongest category there is. motologists saw the 40-minute storm exerted as much energy as 600 hiroshima bombs. the damage it caused could top $2 billion. president obama will tour the damage on sunday. his homeland security chief, janet napolitano is there now and says the focus is on debris removal and helping survivors. >> we want to make this as smooth a process as possible, although we know that people are really hurting. there is a lot of recovery yet to do on behalf of president obama and on behalf of fema, we will be here to stay until this recovery is complete. so you have our commitment on that. >> msnbc's thomas roberts is still in moore. thomas, what is the latest on the ground? >> well, from that same press conference, we learned janet napolitano was certainly

supportive of what folks in moore are going through. but from local officials, we learned there are six individuals that they are actively searching for. the mayor, one of his staffers said that their goal is to go through every house and every car at least three times. so that a big task for people that are apparently missing. they are still waiting to find out more details, probably from family members, that maybe they can maybe alleviate the six people off the list. but we will wait to see official word from that. this is the first time we've ever gotten a rough tally of them making an announcement of people they are actively seeking at this point. as we do know, 24 confirmed individuals perished. ten of which today are children. that number was lesser earlier. but they have confirmed there were two infants that perished in that deadly tornado. we are also learning more about how people are rebounding. today has been a beautiful day in and around moore, oklahoma. yesterday, the weather turned around, guys and got really nice. so we saw an influx of people

coming back to their property that wanted to see what they could salvage, if anything. pick a momento, find a picture, see if they could find something for their kid. favorite toys. but today has been a nice day. so not only have people been out in terms of coming back to their homes. but you can see behind me at the medical facility, they are moving vehicles out of the way. trying to shore up a lot of the debris that in the area behind me. the medical center itself, as you can see over my shoulder, that literally looks like a become went off in front of it. it is going to be a long road back here but everybody, guys, they reassure me they will bounce back. they know the road to recovery is in their sight. >> thomas, i know you spoke with a father who tragically lost his daughter at plaza towers elementary. how is he coping? how is he making sense of all of this? >> you know, krystal, this guy, joshua hornsby, was such a nice young dad who suffered through recent tragedy in his life. a year ago, he just lost his

wife. now jenae, you will remember, is the first child victim identified in the media. she is nine years old. she perished at plaza towers elementary school. that school, one of the hard of the hit. the other being briar wood elementary in this area. but joshua hornsby, he got to me. this guy was so collected, but so passionate. you could see it in his eyes, when he was talking about his little girl. with you see for yourself. >> she was just sunshine on a riny day, you know. there's no way to explain it. she was just happy. always happy. always outgoing. she was just jenae. everybody loved her. and tried to keep the memories in her.

and dot best i can. >> my sunshine on a rainy day. that's how he remembers his daughter. i think so many people can relate. we all know 9-year-olds in our life and to think about the tragedy that the kids went through at that school. it is heart breaking to note that this community will have to rebound and come together around the hornsby family. joshua has one other daughter, gia, two years old. and so, joshua is now a single dad raising his youngest daughter. and again, they have just gone through so much in the last 12 months. i'm not sure how he is keeping it all together. he just said, we spoke off camera, he said, i'm just trying to be calm, because if i didn't, i don't know how i would get through it. >> thomas, with so many homes destroyed, so many properties damaged, and people basically being homeless. where are they? where are the displaced residents of moore, oklahoma going? >> jonathan, they came out earlier with the estimate. the initial estimate that damage is roughly $2 billion.

that number might go up, that could be kind of a soft roll-out on the initial figure there. 1999 when the very same, ef-5 style tornado came through, it was $1 billion in damage. back then, very similar tracks, damaged tracks, of those paths of taornado when we look at the today. you know the phrase, we take care of our own, here, in oklahoma, we take care of our own. a lot of people have been going to friend, families, loved ones. red cross said they haven't been turning people away because they are too crowded but they aren't lacking for business. they have people there but it is not overwhelming. they have other truckis coming into the area to bring more supplies. but this area has been great. generous donations coming in. kevin durant, oklahoma city thunder basketball player, giving $1 million.

the nba ponying up cash for the area. wal-mart giving great donations to its area with support with clothes and food. guys, just here, in and of itself, to our left is a station set up where they are giving away food for free. down on southwest 4th, which i think you heard a lot about in the media, this is telephone road here on my right. and southwest 4th and telephone road is really the ground zero for this. on southwest 4th, there are different parking lots set up where women are folding clothes that have been donated and there are different palettes of materials that people can come in and get what they need. but there have been people. you see people walking around with forks and rakes and boxes of food and they come up to you and offer you water. it is a community spirit and they are taking care of their own. but jonathan, it is a great point. because when talking with the american red cross, we know

there are thousands of displaced people, but family and friend are helping them out during this difficult time. >> as you said, it is a noise day there now. but we know in that part of the country, weather can turn on a dime. is anybody worried about a new round of storms or what might be coming down at the end of the week? >> you know, the great part about our job, guys, and the fact that we have in the family the weather channel, we get to hang out with those guys, like jim cantore, mike bettes, stephanie abrams, all three were here today hanging out with us. we asked them and they said, no, this area would be okay. they didn't see anything popping up severe weatherwise. however, this area just, and s.e., you make a great point, that sirius weather cell that had come through. it takes a lot of attention, we started off earlier in the week, on monday, talking about the tornado that went through shawnee, just 40 miles to the north. there, two people lost their

lives. certainly not as serious in terms of the storm capacity, the energy of it, damaging that area. but we started out the week talking about that. by monday, we had this. but yeah, you're absolutely right. this is a tough tense time for this area in the country where tornadoes can pop up and weather can be bad at a turn after dime. but no, the weather channel team told me it would be good here for a while. that's good for the people of moore, so they can get back to their places, we build and hopefully have time to accept what's happened here. that's one thing, guys, that in talking with the people who have been so kind to all of us and really great. but it almost seems as if maybe it hasn't washed over them just yet. the amount of damage, extent of the damage, what it means to the, you know, the whole of the community in and of itself. you can look with these people around their property andity's

almost like being snow blind. because they can't see the picture or they can't see the toy. they are just almost blind to it all, i think because of a state of shock. it is interesting to see how people are trying to pick through what left of their homes. and what they've missed. i know we've seen a lot of people, and did you see this over here, did you see this over there. i don't know if snow blind is the right way to say it, but that's the only way can i think in my head to put it in context. >> we get that analysis thomas. thank you very much and stay safe. >> reporter: thank you guys, thank you. >> as you saw behind thomas moore, finally a break in weather, moving east. dill dillon dryer is all foefr it for us. dylan? >> we have had severe thunderstorm watches all up and

down the east coast. you can see in yellow out ahead of that front. that the best chance of seeing severe weather. you see i cross southern parts of new york state there where that darker shade of yellow is, those are your severe thunderstorm warnings. so a watch box means that conditions are favorable for severe storms to happen. but when you get those warnings, that means a severe thunderstorm is occurring and it is in especially new york state where we have seen a lot of those severe thunderstorm warnings popping up. but we are seeing more and more lightning beginning to develop across parts of west virginia into western virginia and also western north carolina. where we could see stronger storms today as well. we have had a few isolated tornado warnings because of spots on the radar but we don't have confirmed tornado. most of the damage we will see with the storms today, especially in the northeast and back through virginia, that's an area where we will see the possibility of some small hail, perhaps quarter-sized hail. and also the frequent cloud to

ground lightning. torrential downpours and most specifically the damaging wind gusts. we can see straight line wind gust up to around 60 miles per hour with some of the storms. so when the severe thunderstorm warnings get issued, that's when we have potential of strong wind gusts. we don't see a whole lot of rotation. we won't see widespread tornado washings but we will see a widespread round of thunderstorm warnings with 60 mile per hour wind gust. it is still active. still the same storm system that was in the plains earlier this week and that what we will be keeping an eye on through out the rest of the afternoon. >> wow. dylan, thanks so much. up next, why tornado alley. why there and why do people still flock there? the untold story of america's first tornado chasers p. that's straight ahead. >> our own coach blake shelton was born and raised in oklahoma. and tonight with a special performance, dedicated to his home state, here is blake shelton with his wife, miranda

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world but nowhere are they more frequent than in tornado alley. about 1200 tornadoes tear

through the u.s. each year. that's 75% of the world's tornadoes. for comparison, canada's adistant second with only 100 tornado a year. tornado alley is the nickname given to the region between the rockies and the west and appalachians in the east stretching from north central tom south dakota. it is the perfect tornado breed breeding ground. dry air from the rockies and warm dry air from arizona and new mexico plus the warm moist air of the gulf. lee samland is the author of storm kings, the untold history of america's first tornado chasers. lee, thanks for being with us. >> good to be with you. >> you call tornado the most american of all storms and you go through the history of our country's relationship to the storm and our understanding of it. could you take us through a little bit of that? >> sure. you have to understand that when people first began coming into the midwest from the east coast, they didn't really hear of tornado before. the first white settlers in

america had no idea what tornado were. native americans did. but for everyone arriving from europe, where tornado are very rare, it was a completely new experience. they had no idea what they were and when they were looking in books of science, books of reference, they weren't finding anything about them either. there was essentially nothing that they had written about tarntd, really about the middle of the 18th century. >> and how did we, through science, come to an understanding of what tornadoes actually are? what was the initial scientific explanation? >> actually, the first person who got handle on it was benjamin franklin. we is interested in most everything when he was young and one of the things he was fascinated by was weather. people knew about water spouts. they had seen water spouts in the tropics. he was the first person to they're rise that a water spout could form over land and behave the same way. which is exactly right and an

idea that turned out to be a couple hundred years ahead of its time. >> amazing. >> mr. sandlin, let me ask you, one of the first observations of the storm that hit moore, oklahoma was how similar the path was to the other big storm that hit the same area in 1999 and one of the reporters saying it went over the same path. how common is it to go over the same groove it has in the past? >> that's interesting. i never have found a good explanation. the most dramatic one, the largest or longest trap of a tornado ever recorded was in 1805. a tornado that lasted for several hundred miles and on the ground not for 40 minutes the way that the moore tornado was but for almost four hours. >> wow. >> and 120 years later another tornado took almost exactly that

same track through missouri and through illinois and indiana. it is uncanny. i've never read a good explanation for it. it just seems to be one of the flukes that happens with weather like this. >> lee, let's talk about storm chasers. storm chasers will also tell us that in doing what they do, they get valuable information and insight into how the storms operate. how do they do that? what kind of information do they bring back? >> well, the first thing, and it is an enormously valuable thing, is just a body of direct observation. people have forgotten now because they are used to seeing video of tornadoes that up until recently it is a very rare experience. even good photograph of one. so the study of the scientific basis of tornadoes has always been hampered by the inability of scientist to be able to work with good data. so, the first thing the tornado

chasers have been doing is building up this immense body of direct observation which destroyed a lot of original ideas about tornado and really helped to clir fie what they are. >> and the role of those observerses you write about in the 1835 new brunswick tornado. >> yeah. >> which you say is one of the better cataloged, researchers flooding the time. at times you write, interrupting mourners, to try to gather information. which is somewhat reminiscent of what we see today. >> yeah, like the first big media event involving tornado. >> exactly. is that predicate that people are so fascinated, even as people are literally burying their lost relatives here, the press and these researchers sometimes come in and want to gather as much information in part because i guess, a lot of people are fascinated by this. is that it? >> well, you know, one of the -- i mentioned franklin. one of the things that i discovered researching this book is he was really the first tornado chaser. he was ariding with his friend

on horse back through the maryland countryside when he saw a small tornado form and he went chasing after it on his horse. riding beside it. and according to one of his letters, he was lashing at it with his riding prop while doing it. that shows that from the beginning, people when they've seen tornadoes have been irresistibly drawn to chase them. this is a long-standing thing. >> all right, lee. thank you so much for those insights. as the recovery in oklahoma continues, resident are finding strength from other survivors two years ago today another ef-5 tornado hit the town of joplin, missouri. 158 people died. 8,000 homes and businesses destroyed, including the local high school. now, two years later, 84% of those homes have been rebuilt or are under construction. 90% the town's businesses are up and running. joplin first responders are in moore helping recovery kg, giving the same kindness and

outreach and help others gave them two years ago. shows what good can come after surviving a cat trast ro if i. how to survive a monster storm is up next. ♪ i' 'm a hard, hard ♪ worker every day. ♪ i' ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm working every day. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm saving all my pay. ♪ ♪ if i ever get some money put away, ♪ ♪ i'm going to take it all out and celebrate. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker... ♪ membership rallied millions of us on small business saturday to make shopping small, huge.

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we want it get right back to moore, oklahoma and craig melvin for perfective from on the ground there. craig? >> reporter: hey there, jonathan cape hart. ways listening to your last guest before the commercial break talk about tornado and you talk to folks who live in this part of the country. you talk it folks here in moore, and all of them will tell you that this is something that unfortunately they have have grown accustom to. obviously not this particular tornado but the idea of living in tornado alley. the idea that something like there can happen is very much reality. and folks who have lived here for a long time talk to you

about that. spent some time a short time ago by the name of donald lawrence who owns a day care across from the hospital behind me. we have been showing you the hospital the past 24 hours or so. the day care center couldn't get the kids out in time or teachers out in time. so what they could do is what they practiced, what they rehearsed. he told me that drills that they practiced time and time again came in handy. take a listen. >> had those kids and those teachers not been in those two rooms, they would have been dead. no doubt. no doubt. when you look at this, and you -- i mean, those are literally the only rooms left standing. >> yeah. that was the plan. that's why we always -- we had drills and everything else all the time.

to get them all back in there. and strangely enough -- and that something i always told my teachers, if they stay calm, the kids will stay calm. one little boy asked, when it was going on, asked the teacher to read them a book. so they were all pretty cool about it. >> i talked to one of the teachers. she was still visibly shaken up. they wouldn't go on a camera. but i said, you are in a bathroom, youngest is eight months old and oldist is five or six. i said, what do you do. she said you do two things. she read the book and prayed. she said the kid, just instinctively or augout of fearo just stay calm.

if you saw the pictures there, that entire day care facility, with the exception of those bathrooms, the entire thing was decimateed. . so the fact they were able to get out, nothing short after miracle. they along with just about everyone else here in moore, literally picking up the pieces today. we saw them picking up children's toys and books. and things of that nature. we also spent time talking to business owners who are doing the same thing. there is a hair salon across from the day care center. a woman came back, she came back to the hair salon. i said ma'am, what are you doing? she was sifting through the rubble. not safe at all, we should note. she said, i've got to find my address book. i've got clients who, you know, may want to come in over the next few days and she was terribly serious about it. so folks in moore, oklahoma, are starting to get things, to get their lives back together slowly but surely. >> craig melvin, amazing stories out of moore, oklahoma. thank you. i want to now you bring in

dr. irwin bedletter from columbia university. thanks for being here. >> happy to be here, thanks. >> one of the first heart breaking images we saw coming out of moore, oklahoma is the fact that two schools had been completely decimated. it made me think of a save the children report that the organization does every year on a national report card. does your state have a disaster plan for children. luckily, om oklahoma is one of the states that does pretty well. but when you see a disaster like this happening in oklahoma, it makes you think of whether other states and other communities are as prepared as the folks in oklahoma. how -- what would you say to the preparedness of other communities around the country? >> sure. you know, one of the problems, jonathan, is that the state of preparedness in any community or any state is almost a random act. you know, some states are bet

are than others. some communities within some states are bet are than others. state of alabama, for instance, has an absolute regulation that you must have safe rooms within every single school in the state. oklahoma doesn't. so it has about a hundred schools that have managed to develop the funds and build the safe rooms. but all of the other schools don't, including the two schools affected in moore. i think one of the things that -- one of the many, many lessons that may come out of this is that we need a much more consistent set of policies around preparedness. particularly around volenerable populations like children. we have a lot of work to do here. >> doctor, i spoke to the city manager of joplin yesterday. and he said that where he is, people got a little desense advertised, used to the tornado sirens because they would hear them so often and they actually started conducting their drills inaudibly, electronically, so people didn't hear them quite as much. is that a phenomenon and

concerning thing, especially for people used to living in the dangerous zones? >> yes. i think it is, unfortunately. but it is sort of like the, for a while, when you add car alarm go off in new york city, people would call the police. and they would respond. now they just -- >> not any more. >> now just total annoyances and nobody pays attention to them any more. but it is a situation where if you are living in an area that's known for particular kind of disaster, like tornado alley, or in the gulf with a major hurricane warning coming, or seismic activity. we have to do better at creating ways of messaging and alerting people so that we know what to do. and that we actually react when we need to. but it is kind of this calling, you know, calling wolf, crying wolf phenomenon that unfortunately has seeped in this particular arena. >> and crying wolf, doesn't that go to the nature of preparedness of this area, that has to be long-term.

unlike hurricanes where you can get a credible hurricane warning, tornado pop up as we have been reporting directly in an affected area. so you have to plan quite a bit ahead to be in a position to deal with it in your residential space. >> actually, this brings up a good point because the actual getting prepared for major disaster like a tornado, like this, it involves certain things we would do when the alarms goes off. we must have practiced what we are going to do explicitly and repeatedly in past in order to act rapidly. and then the things that involve preparedness that are longer term, that involve investment like the safe rooms or like, making sure that alarm system's actually working all the time. there is a combination of efforts part of the community's responsibilities or the school systems or states and other things that citizens need to do we find that most effective, response realities and big

disasters happens when the citizens are prepared themselves and the systems and governments have done their part as well. i should point out that we're in a very strange situation right now. because all of the budgets proposed in washington now are calling for massive cut backs in funding for disaster preparedness. >> right. >> it's been under the radar screen but we are facing probably 50% cut back in fund to help cities and states get prepared for disasters between 2010 and now. we're facing the elimination of the hospital preparedness program for disasters. so we have this kind of disconnect between funds and resources that we are putting towards this and actual needs that people are experiencing. >> such an important point. you raise it as not a political point but simply what are we doing to be prepared at the state and federal level and of course congress right now, debating what they are going to do with budget offsets if they go bat of the $11 billion left in the disaster fund.

>> exactly. and everything as we keep calling all of these events, whether the marathon bombing or explosion in west texas last month, or we keep referring to them as wake-up calls. assuming they would be lessons learned and we act on them and bake it better the next time. but we treat them more like snooze alarms. we get aroused with the drama, then we hit the button and slip back no a state of complacency. which in long-term is not a good way to operate. we need to take these lessons very seriously, then follow up. we just experienced this in oklahoma and i hope every state legislature in a state that's actually subject to tornadoes will now mandate the fact that every school and every child in a day care center needs to have a appropriate protections in plis befoplace before the event happens. >> i think it is human nature to think that it couldn't happen to where you live or where you are but obviously it could happen anywhere. i wanted to delve into some of

the human questions around this, country music star o o toby keith, from moore, oklahoma. he spoke with the today show this morning about living in tornado alley. let's listen to some of that. >> reason i never moved to nashville. it is home and people here are very resilient. they are really prepared for these things. this could have been a lot worse if it would have caught someone in a town where they are not prepare p prepared. they get hit all the time, they know. they just bounce back. they love it. you see people pitching in and helping. and the second that it hit, like my son-in-law, went right into the school, turned his truck over getting in there. gets electrocuted climbing in the school. has a tunnel collapse on him. run a nail through his foot. emt service him, tend to him, then he goes right back in and helps search and rescue. everybody is like that. >> now doctor, a lot of people have no choice about where they

live. either because of a job or financial circumstances or health circumstances. but for people who do have the luxury of that option of where to live, why live in a place like tornado alley or in an area that may be more flood prone or prone to hurricanes or earthquakes. >> in some ways, it is almost impossible to completely avoid risk. there is 90 million americans, for example, who live on seismically active zones where the potential for an earthquake is sort of always there. millions of people in the gulf. we had in the northeast this superstorm sandy a few months ago. so you can't really avoid it. but what we need to do though, is make sure we have invested properly in the things that we need to do to keep us as safe as possible. and as resilient as possible. and we shouldn't be confusing the heroism of people responding as they do as toby keith was saying, as with what government does to make us better prepared.

>> doctor, thank you so much for coming in. >> sure. >> we are coming back with other news of the day, including jodi arias and a matter of life or death. which will the jury choose? explosive new developments, next.

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breaking news now. a major news development for the jury verdict for jodi arias. >> just a short while ago, jurors passed a note to the judge saying they could not come to a unanimous decision on what her sentence should be. so the judge ordered them back knot room and said, continue deliberating. they are trying to blow up the log jam keeping the jury from coming to a unanimous decision. this makes it more likely we might end up with a hung jury. if that happens that means we need a new jury for the penalty phase of the case that is comfortable with sentencing

someone to death. i spoke to jodi arias last night at length about the not tire trial. we focused on the sentencing aspect. what i wanted to know is how do you stab somebody so many times and slit their throat when you say it is self-defense. she told me, i don't remember what happened that night. so i said there are a lot of folks out here who they they know what you deserve. this may sound harsh but a lot of people out there feel the only true justice for travis alexander is for you to get a death sentence. >> that's not justice, that's revenge. >> what about revenge? >> well if they believe if revenge, then i guess i can understand that sentiment. and i don't know. my feelings on capitol punishment is that it is archaic. i don't say that because of my situation -- >> could you sentence someone to

death? >> no, i don't think i could. >> jodi arias is held in an isolated room under the courthouse behind me as the jury deliberates an they elected to continue deliberating through lunch. so at that point we don't know what that means or how soon we will have a decision or what that will be. but we will keep you updated. >> diana, fascinating interview. we turn to jamie floyd and john bloom. professor, i will start with you. the cycle team booked you for the show because you are an expert on the death penalty. not knowing that i had taken your class. so extra exciting to have you here today. >> glad to be here. >> absolutely. when people look at a case like this, we learn a lot about capitol cases from the mo controversial or incendiary trial. so is this typical or different in fundamental ways?

>> it is atypical because it has gotten a lot of publicity and the matter of the crime. but it is not surprising the jury is having trouble reaching a verdict. we've seen nationally that in cases where boyfriend/girl friend lover kills someone else that the jury is reluctant to impose death in those situations. >> jamie, you have to clear something up for me. in the video that we just saw, the interview that jodi arias did, she said that you know she thought that getting the death penalty would be revenge. yet immediately after the verdict came out a beek week or so ago, she gave another television interview where she said that death is freedom. how much of this should the jury take into account? especially since she addressed it yesterday? >> they are only supposed to take into account what she said in court. what she says to us in the media and the larger public is not supposed to be art of the evidence. but of course, this is always a concern for the judge and

justice system that these cases are so highly publicized. which gets back to ari's question, how much is a case like this indicative of the larger system. i agree with the professor that to a large extent it is, but to a larger extent it isn't. the jury always struggles with the death penalty. it is a very, very difficult burd yn we put on jurors in these cases. when you have a boyfriend/girlfriend case that end in death, they are red sent to impose it. >> jamie, dig into that more. we see that there are racial disparities in the way the death penalty is applied. there are geographic disparities. so we have the legal criteria for when death should be the punishment. but what are the rel sort of underlying factors going on, consciously, subconsciously, even logistically for the jurors.

>> they are looking at whether she has a record before this. whether she has ever done anything violent before. could she do anything remdemptive in prison? our system is supposed to be about rehabilitation and though i don't think jodi arias does herself any favors when doing these interviews, she makes a good point about the system being rehabilitation and not retribution. even the death penalty is supposed to serve a purpose. the worst most horrific crimes. we think about those who have not received the death penalty. and the professor can address this better than i can. there are reasons, procedural, arbitrariness of the penalty, we think of jeffrey dahmer, bgk, charles manson, people who avoid et the penalty over the years. either because it was not available at the time that their crime went down, for constitutional reasons or simply because it was not imposed by a jury. cases -- then those who did

receive the death penalty. of course timothy mcveigh comes immediately to mind. very, very different kind of case than this one. so the arbitrariness is what you are pointing to and that's, i'm sure, weighing upon the jury. >> john, i wanted to ask you more about your project, cornell death penalty project. not just because i, too, went to cornell, but because i'm fascinated by it. you say this happened as a result of the closing of some death penalty resource centers. i'm particularly interested in what you guys talked about at one of your symposia on religion and the death penalty. >> well, the cornell death penalty project does a couple different things. we do academic research and also do some appellate representation. but the symposium you talked about, we looked at different ways in which religion influences the imposition of the death penalty and we looked at

jurors' beliefs and religious leaves and how that related to their ability or willingness to impose death. we look at arguments which are made, not in capitol cases of how that can skew the jury's decision making and a number of other facets in religion and capital punishment. >> that's fascinating. i would love to see research on that. i think the work you guys do over there is really cool. >> thank you. >> excellent. jamie, john, thank you very much. the ultimate in tax evasion. huge player in the irs scandal is taking the fifth. we will have more. oh this is lame, investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. is that what you're looking for, like a hidden fee in your giant mom bag? maybe i have them... oh that's right i don't because i rolled my account over to e-trade where... woah. okay... they don't have hidden fees... hey fern. the junk drawer? why would they... is that my gerbil? you said he moved to a tiny farm. that's it, i'm running away. no, no you can't come!

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in the third hearing called to get answers in the irs scandal, this happened today. >> attorney has written to the committee to inform us that she intends to invoke her fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. of course, i am disappointed that we will not be able to ask her questions today. >> so, lois lerner not going to testify, apparently. this, i think, infur raiates a of people. i think many folks will view ms. lerner as either a coward or criminal, whether that's fair or not. this is why it bothers me. she heads up the very department that we're all talking about when we're looking at this irs scandal. she delivered the response to the planted question at the aba

conference. so clearly there was some coordination on her part as to how this would be rolled out. she apologized for the actions of the irs, which indicates to me she has the authority to do so. and is taking some responsibility there. and now suddenly she doesn't want any responsibility. she not only doesn't want to apologize, she doesn't want to have to talk about it. which is appalling and incredibly offensive. the thing i found interesting and what i want to ask you, ari, about, is this idea that she could please the fifth after giving her own statement. let's take a look. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations. and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. after very careful consideration, i have decided to follow my counsel's advice and not testify or answer any of the

questions today. >> she just testified. she just waived her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and then not be subjected to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to fifth amendment privilege by issues an opening statement. she ought to stay here and answer our questions. >> did she waive her right? break it down for us. >> she didn't waive her right legally before the congressional committee because she's not a defendant in court. the congressman is speaking about basically what would happen if she did it in court. if she said that in court as a defendant she would waive. you can't have it both ways. >> right. no doubt. >> she can legally do this. as for the politics, i think she should testify. we talk a lot about transpare y transparency. she's out there doing a pr tour. she made her remarks to the aba. i think she thought to go before our congress under oath. i think that would be useful for the process. based on what we know, it seems like she should resign. so i think that's very disappointing. it was an interesting moment in congress. because you had lawyers who are used to the court criminal context saying, no, you can't do that. truth is legally she can.

last point, they could issue her a special waiver if they went to court, granted her immunity for any statement she would make and bring her back. >> interesting to see if they go that route. let me just say, i think in terms of this scandal, there's not a whole lot here other than incompetence. but to the extent that there is incompetence, it seems like it rests at her feet. i think steven miller, former acting commissioner who resigned was basically fired, i think that was a very political move. you had to have someone's head. it seems to me like she is the one who really should be let go in all of this. >> right. >> enough of this. you showed me yours. let me show you mine. >> oh. cheeky. >> every day starts right here. and it's the best part of my day. >> look, i made some big mistakes. i know i let a lot of people down. but i've also learned some tough lessons. i'm running for mayor because i've been fighting for the middle class and those struggling to make it my entire life. and i hope i get a second chance to work for you.

>> that's anthony weiner announcing he's running for mayor of new york city. keep in mind he ran for mayor in 2005. this is a smart fellow. you can't count him out. >> not that smart, jonathan. >> he's a smart fellow. he ran in 2005. he got into a runoff with freddy fehrerer who ended up becoming the democratic nominee for mayor. i say if he had become the nominee he could have beaten mayor bloomberg out of a second term. >> well, we'll see how far he goes this time. >> we'll certainly have more on that story. >> right. we're coming right back here on "the cycle." [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. that was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again, and now i gotta take more pills. ♪ yup another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪

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